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abb8279
08-02-2010, 05:23 PM
Anybody have any thoughts or experience with the solar power charger from r-charge?

Renaissance Charge LLC Testimonials RC-2A12 (http://r-charge.com/Solar.html)

They have 10, 20 and 30 amp models for controlling/charging batteries from solar panels. Even at 30 amps thats only going to be 360 watts at 12 volts. This does not seem like something that could be used to power a home becasue thats not enough power. Does it produce more more power than it recieves via the solar panels? Can it be used in a manner like the 10 pole energizer or the simplified school girl motor - using batteries to charge other batteries?

I send an email to r-charge but they have not responded. Any thoughts or comments are welcome. thanks.

SilverToGold
08-02-2010, 05:32 PM
I just got my Tesla Power Amplifier 30A model a couple days ago. It's actually 720 Watts input. 24V x 30A.

They plan on coming out with a 150A model later if you want to use it to power a house.

Haven't been able to do much with it at the moment due to time limitations.

A little disappointed that there was no instruction manual included. Thought the first instruction on the front panel is to refer to the instruction manual.

dragon
08-02-2010, 07:03 PM
For the cost of them, not to mention the lead time, I'll stick with the good ole' reliable Xantrex controllers for 147.00 for 60 amp use ( C60). I've looked at the MPPT controllers which are quite nice in how they work but I doubt you'll ever see a payback from using them. The few watts you loose in conventional controllers far exceeds the cost of recovering those small losses.

Another nice feature of the Xantrex controllers is they can be used for wind as well as solar as they can be configured for a basic controller (solar), diversion controller(wind) and a load controller which allows you to use a load based on battery voltage. Inexpensive and versitile.

For that price it should double your input to make it worth while. I've run my house on wind and solar for 10years now and wouldn't go back for nothing... I don't run any of my 220v stuff at this point ( washer, drier, stove etc ) which is still on the grid but when the grid goes down I don't have to worry about rushing out and firing up the genny for basic needs.
________
Squirell (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/Squirell/)

Mark
08-02-2010, 09:32 PM
Hello Dragon

Does your Xantrex controller use pulse width technology? And if not what is the life span on your batteries?

Thanks,
Mark

abb8279
08-02-2010, 10:02 PM
I just got my Tesla Power Amplifier 30A model a couple days ago. It's actually 720 Watts input. 24V x 30A.

They plan on coming out with a 150A model later if you want to use it to power a house.

Haven't been able to do much with it at the moment due to time limitations.

A little disappointed that there was no instruction manual included. Thought the first instruction on the front panel is to refer to the instruction manual.

Thanks for posting.

I'm very much looking forward to how it works. Based on the photo of the product online, it says 12/24 volts in and 12/24 volts out. So I wonder if you can use a battery to power the device on the input and see if it can charge more batteries on the output like an SSG. Please keep us informed of anything you learn about this product!

dragon
08-02-2010, 11:32 PM
Hello Dragon

Does your Xantrex controller use pulse width technology? And if not what is the life span on your batteries?

Thanks,
Mark

Yes,I believe it does. It's been years since I've looked at the manual, you could check the manuals on line to be sure. I just changed out my battery bank which had 8 years on it although they were still working well I thought it might be better to have a fresh pack as I didn't know where the economy is going. I gave them to my neighbor who has the bank still in service on his system and so far their doing fine. The batteries are the standard T105 Trojans, the same as used in golf carts. I suspect 10 years life on them would be reasonable if cared for. The Xantrex also has a manual equalize mode that brings them up to 15.5 volts for 1 hour to desulfate the plates, I do this every 30 days to keep them healthy. Other than basic maintenance on the batteries it's pretty much self contained.
________
Krissy (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/Krissy/)

SilverToGold
08-03-2010, 07:21 PM
Well, here are some pictures for you guys of the new Tesla Solar Charger.

I had to take a peek inside... and included a picture for you guys if you're interested.

Will test when I have some time.

abb8279
08-03-2010, 08:47 PM
Well, here are some pictures for you guys of the new Tesla Solar Charger.

I had to take a peek inside... and included a picture for you guys if you're interested.

Will test when I have some time.

Looks like a fairly large machine for only 720 watts. Its different than the machine they show on their website at r-charge.com. The name is interesting..."Tesla Power Amplifier". They are choosing not to call it a charge controller but an amplifier instead. I wonder why?

btrapr
08-07-2010, 01:52 PM
I too am on a quest for a solar control system...

I have found the Ghurd LVD/Dump circuit interesting and a lot of good reviews from buyers... $12.95 plus shipping
ghurd - Hurd Solar Renewable Energy | Dump Controllers (http://www.ghurd.info/)
*The only downside is that the P-fet is now obsolete- NOT sure what can replace the ZM33064? ANY IDEAS?
reviews- check fieldline.com
here is a link for a search I did there
Set Search Parameters (http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php?action=search2)

here is another option
Linear Current Booster as a possible project for someone (Ghurd)? (http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,143267.0.html)

OR these are on Fleebay
LM2596 DC Converter Adjustable Power Module Regulator - eBay (item 320559004290 end time Aug-07-10 07:25:05 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320559004290&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
$10 shipped!
This company also has other similar
10~32V to 35~60V DC Converter Power Voltage Regulator - eBay (item 320571235238 end time Sep-03-10 17:50:02 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/10-32V-35-60V-DC-Converter-Power-Voltage-Regulator-/320571235238?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2)

10~32V to 35~60V DC Converter Power Voltage Regulator - eBay (item 320571235238 end time Sep-03-10 17:50:02 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/10-32V-35-60V-DC-Converter-Power-Voltage-Regulator-/320571235238?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2)

minoly
08-07-2010, 03:10 PM
Two small questions to keep in mind-

Do any of these other charge controllers charge in seriously low light?

If JB's charger is charging in the moonlight, what is it doing w/ full sunlight?

You can setup a small joule thief circuit to verify this for yourself w/ a small solar cell. :cool:

patmac
08-07-2010, 05:09 PM
@Silvertogo

Look the complete circuit is sumerged in resin, whatever I've ever insisted there are some tricks hidden in all Bedini technology.

ewizard
08-07-2010, 05:19 PM
Unfortunately I heard on a test of the solar charger that the implied possible OU does not now exist in the units being shipped. Either the PTB got to Bedini and forced them to limit it or it never had the capability so IMO it's just a solar charge controller on the high end of things price wise.

theremart
08-08-2010, 01:07 AM
Unfortunately I heard on a test of the solar charger that the implied possible OU does not now exist in the units being shipped. Either the PTB got to Bedini and forced them to limit it or it never had the capability so IMO it's just a solar charge controller on the high end of things price wise.

I know how much you love Bedini circuits..

I was hoping this device was as was shown in the video by Bedini.

Still, look forward to seeing others results.

ashtweth
08-08-2010, 01:57 AM
On the Solar Panel now guys charging a dead lead acid battery, filmed a research report and will have it up ASAP after results are in.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6215/ts1su.jpg


Ash

sucahyo
08-09-2010, 02:31 AM
On the Solar Panel now guys charging a dead lead acid battery, filmed a research report and will have it up ASAP after results are in.

AshCan you test it on a good battery too? Because I think people want to use it on good battery. People do not buy it as battery reviver?

Mark
08-09-2010, 01:03 PM
I'd like to know if you can use a battery on the input and the output, and if you rotate them will both batteries get charged up or will they both end up discharging. Can you even use a battery on the input?

Mark

ashtweth
08-10-2010, 01:51 AM
Hi sucahyo/Mark

Sure thing:thumbsup: , have some good batteries and will film some load tests.

Ash

Mark
08-10-2010, 02:03 AM
Thanks Ash look forward to your report. :thumbsup:

sucahyo
08-11-2010, 03:24 AM
Thanks, I will look forward to the report too :).

ashtweth
08-12-2010, 04:20 AM
As the Frankenstein Doctor said IT ALIVE!:D

120 watt solar panel we use to do the RV educational energy saving demos.
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9914/solarpanel.jpg

Solar amplifier charging a dead lead acid battery, originally 2 volts and could not take a charge from an electron pusher.

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/3404/switch.jpg

Loaded, and holding charge running a fan
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9672/batteryr.jpg

Since this battery creates an electrochemical cold charge its has to be the best solar lead acid battery charger METHOD to rejuvenate and charge Solar lead acid batteries

It helps when People read about the amplifier on the Panacea page as they can learn what it can really do and how we need to help John turn it up!(create safer conditions for him,. Steorn production from us soon to help this). John Bedini (http://panacea-bocaf.org/johnbedini.htm)

More test on the way guys.

Mark
08-13-2010, 12:09 PM
Hey Ash

Have you had the time yet to see if you can use a battery on the input yet? And then of course I'll need to know what happens to both batteries as you swap them back and forth. I wish you were close to me, I'd love to give you a hand with all the exciting things your working on!

Mark

Farmhand
08-13-2010, 09:56 PM
Hi all, I guess I gotta ask the question.

Can the batteries/ battery bank be used while being charged by this unit?

I would hope it is possible to draw power from a solar system "with this unit" at any time, as is possible with conventional solar setups.

Regards.

ashtweth
08-15-2010, 02:22 AM
Hey Ash

Have you had the time yet to see if you can use a battery on the input yet? And then of course I'll need to know what happens to both batteries as you swap them back and forth. I wish you were close to me, I'd love to give you a hand with all the exciting things your working on!

Mark

Hi Mark, Farmhand and ALL

Guys there is always room for improvement on this, am getting some data back to john for Rick for this, i dont see any reason why not, ill try the battery:thumbsup:.

Mark
08-16-2010, 09:50 PM
Hey Ash,

Was wondering if you have any info back from Rick or John and if you've done any further testing.

Thanks again, Mark

ashtweth
08-17-2010, 01:48 AM
Hi Mark, yes we are on day 3 of bringing back the second battery, looks like the second battery is coming back to life, we just bought back some drill batteries on the solid state also.

Soon as battery 2 is finished will hook up the battery in place of the Solar panel:thumbsup: Still waiting for the manual :)

Angelinabv
08-17-2010, 03:01 AM
HI,

In most cases the charger uses no more than 6-10% more energy than conventional chargers. We are confident that the industry will agree that a small increase in electrical power consumption is a small price to pay for the typically incredible increases in battery capacity, not to mention the significant savings because of lower battery replacement costs...."


Never mind, the radiant battery charger can be very very useful. It has more value than the 'usual' battery charger, because one can dramatically extend the life of batteries. One day I will buy the Solar Kick battery charger

Technical Consulting services (http://www.sterling-energy.com)

ashtweth
08-17-2010, 03:11 AM
>In most cases the charger uses no more than 6-10% more energy than conventional chargers.

He told me that these Tesla Switch Solar Chargers can put out a lot more, but that he purposely clamps down their output, which could be "massive". "I don't dare turn it up."
Tesla Switch Solar Charger to debut at Bedini conference (http://pesn.com/2010/02/11/9501613_Bedinis_Tesla_Switch_Solar_Charger_confere nce/)

Farmhand
08-18-2010, 12:05 AM
I am going to buy one of these soon, I think combining different systems in the right way may be the key to providing ourselves with practical energy systems.

I wonder if this could work on one bank of batteries while being used, while another bank is being charged by SSG while not being used, then swapped as per normal but with the power amplifier and solar panels always feeding the opposite bank to the SSG which is also powered by the bank that is being used.

Hope that make's sense.

I would think with a setup such as this more usable power would be available.

Keep up the good work Ash. :cheers:

Regards

ashtweth
08-18-2010, 05:07 AM
Wonder how we can turn this switch up :thinking: :thinking:

John_K
08-18-2010, 11:43 AM
Hi All,

I posted some of my results on the other thread:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5732-bedini-tesla-switch-solar-amplifier-2.html (post #47)

@Ash, testing is looking good mate! :thumbsup:
:cheers:

John K.

Mark
08-18-2010, 01:35 PM
Hello Ash,

One concern I have of hooking a battery directly to the input of the Solar charger is that it may take all the current from the battery at once and blow the fuse. You could run Battery to inverter to (power supply or converntional battery charger) to Solar Charger to charge battery. This should be safe. Then rotate batteries to see if they both eventually charge or discharge.

Mark

ashtweth
08-18-2010, 02:33 PM
Hi Mark thanks for that man, this is why i will wait for the manual before doing it and confer for all. We got the charger like the steorn kit with out the manual :rofl: :rolleyes: :D

BTW,that black resin comes off with acetone...

John_K
08-19-2010, 11:24 AM
@ Mark,

That was my fear as well. I don't want to blow mine up yet... I have a feeling that the re-settable fuse will pop if you put a big enough battery on the front end. (If you're lucky LOL) I'd love to do that test for you but I'm having too much fun with the 200W solar panel... :blowout: Free Energy!! (well after the PV has paid itself off :rofl: )

@Ash,

I emailed R-charge to see how far away the manual is. I'll let you know when I have an answer.

:cheers:

John K.

Mark
08-19-2010, 04:49 PM
Hey John

But you wouldn't be putting a battery directly on the front if you used an inverter to run your power supply.

I realize its probably hard to tell but have you been able to tell if using the solar charge actually charges your batteries faster than with a standard charge controller or if you hooked the batteries directly up to you PV panel?

I'm going to a tax auction tomorrow and hopefully will be purchasing a small cabin that I plan on converting to an off grid system. If everything goes as planned I will most likely be purchasing one of the Telsa solar units if its everything I expect it to be. I hope its more than I expect it to be!

Thanks again, Mark

Aaron
08-19-2010, 07:27 PM
We'll be offering something exciting here pretty soon that a lot of
people have been asking us about. We'll also be offering free bonuses
with any purchase of the products on the products page. We'll post
a notice about what is going on to anyone that signs up for the mailing
list. Tesla Solar Chargers (http://www.teslachargers.com)

John_K
08-20-2010, 10:36 AM
We'll be offering something exciting here pretty soon that a lot of
people have been asking us about. We'll also be offering free bonuses
with any purchase of the products on the products page. We'll post
a notice about what is going on to anyone that signs up for the mailing
list. Tesla Solar Chargers (http://www.teslachargers.com)

Hi Aaron,

This is good news. I have signed up for the mailing list already.

I'm all for promoting these products as much as you are. As I'm also an authorized Australian dealer for the Tesla Solar Power Amplifiers (and all R-Charge products) I would also like to offer incentives for purchasing the products.

Is it acceptable that I can promote these incentives on Energetic Forum as well?

:cheers:

John K.
Wavelength Energy Solutions (http://www.wavelengthenergysolutions.com.au)
Australia

John_K
08-21-2010, 03:42 AM
Hi All,

Attached is a working outline of the User Manual for customers who have bought a Tesla Solar Power Amplifier or who wish to buy them.

It was written by Rick Friedrich and posted recently to the Bedini_Monopole3 Yahoo! group. I have pasted it word for word into this format.

:cheers:

John K.

Aaron
08-24-2010, 05:09 AM
Hi Everyone,

Peter and I were at John's shop for quite a while today and
got to test out a new technology that will be available soon.
We're going to announce it at Tesla Chargers | World's Most Efficient, Effective & Advanced Battery Chargers (http://www.teslachargers.com)
and anyone on the mailing list will be the first to find out.

We sent out a notice a few days ago about the solar chargers
and already everything is sold out - the regular tesla switch
solar chargers that is.

Anyway, what we're announcing soon is what everyone
wished they had in a solar battery charger.

-------------------

John - you can pm me about your distributorship

John_K
08-24-2010, 10:32 AM
Hi Everyone,

Peter and I were at John's shop for quite a while today and
got to test out a new technology that will be available soon.
We're going to announce it at Tesla Chargers | World's Most Efficient, Effective & Advanced Battery Chargers (http://www.teslachargers.com)
and anyone on the mailing list will be the first to find out.

We sent out a notice a few days ago about the solar chargers
and already everything is sold out - the regular tesla switch
solar chargers that is.

Anyway, what we're announcing soon is what everyone
wished they had in a solar battery charger.

-------------------

John - you can pm me about your distributorship

Hi Aaron,

This sounds great! I can't wait to find out.

I sent you a PM, as requested.

John K.

Mark
08-24-2010, 11:41 AM
Hello Arron

When you say the mailing list do you mean the newsletter? I signed up for the newsletter, is there anything else I need to do and when can we expect this new info?

Mark

ashtweth
08-25-2010, 11:38 PM
Another back from the dead guys..could not take a conventional charge
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3136/0001423h.jpg

This one took about 3-4 days but was worth it, holds steady charge.
And we need it for..Here is the Bedini charged battery running a Bedini solid state charging the battery Bedini style.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/7292/0001424.jpg

A Bedini that's powered by a Bedini charged battery running a Bedini for a Bedini charge:p :rolleyes: If i say the word Bedini one more time Ren and John K are going to knock me out :rofl: :cheers:

Solid state was built out of the FEG book, works well, we use solar to charge these dead batteries and run them one at a time, will try a series charge soon, still need to read the manual lol. VERDICT..Works well!


Ash

nvisser
08-26-2010, 10:24 AM
Hi Ashtweth
Could you connect an ammeter to the input and output and see if you get the same results as JB got on his video
17V , limited to 3A in and about 7A output pulses.
Thanks
Vissie

nvisser
08-26-2010, 09:12 PM
I spoke to Someone on Skype today that also purchased a solar charger and ask him to do some measurements on the solar charger he purchased from JB.
This was what he found:

[12:30:21 PM] naude.visser: can you limit the input to 3a 17v
[12:31:44 PM] Someone: yes, 17V @3A, output 2A

So I wonder what happened to that 7-10A pulses on the videos ?

ashtweth
08-27-2010, 12:35 AM
Hi Vissie i did that test and filmed it for all, i was going make a public statement in our new Steorn production and in here on how we can help Rick and John. May as well be now.

John said on PES he dare not turn it up, he has no security. Before i go on.

THE CHARGER IS WORTH EVERY PENNY.:) Ill still be using it for Demos. And people need to still get this charger FOR A VERY IMPORTANT REASON. As John stated he "dare not turn it up" and there is a reason he took his OU video's of the solar amplifier down.

They have got to John before. John and Rick need help, they need secure condition's before they can give us what the universe has provided. I am here not to judge John or Rick but HELP them. This is why as soon as that little orbo is ready (getting close now) an organization like Panacea is needed to substantiate the phenomenon of FREE energy to consensus reality not just in Tesla tech type conferences.(they do help)

Let the cat out of the bag with all cases AND POTENTIAL, (it AIN'T getting back in once out) and therefore provide HELP to Rick and John (SAFE conditions) so they can get the kudos they deserve for making an OVER UNITY SOLAR AMPLIFIER. Vissie we both know John has had it since 1980.

We need secure conditions for disclosure, even the corporate environment (not just social reform) and PUBLIC (not conferences only) education about these systems and their capacity and the need for security into the release of them.

Our Tests test confirm , John had to tune it down, he said that already on Peswiki, No surprises there. So how do we help, its still a great one to one charger, unique, John Koorn has been very supportive of the non profit org a perfect gentleman and provided help and support with the switch so we can do our environmental projects.

We need to help all inventors, John took his Tesla switch video's down and stated draw your own conclusions about the I/O. Rick would of wanted us all to have it, no doubt in my mind.

When people buy the switch, they can learn about what it can do if they read about it in here, the Panacea page or on Peswiki
John Bedini (http://panacea-bocaf.org/johnbedini.htm)

The R- Charge guys cant do this on their own. We should not expect them too. John K, JIM, VISSIE are all working on Jim's open source 10 coiler which could be the one to let the cat out of the bag.

We need to keep going. As ANY ONE OF THEM, can be used with a presentation of our caliber to justify secure safe conditions, whether you want the NON PROFIT Panacea research center for this, or ANY alternative it doesn't matter what matter's is the safe conditions can only come from building consumer awareness and demand WITH A VALIDATED Free energy principle. A replicated application not meters.

Once that happens (maybe the Orbo will be the first, not by Stoern by developers) then We can HELP Rick and John better.

If people dont use their switch we are going to be further behind. Either way ill be talking about ALL the suppression and how to erect secure conditions in the public eye with our public demos(Steron production have been filming for weeks), a little orbo could do all this.

I am sorry to give every one the bad news that the solar amplifier is tuned down (and we can't turn it back up) but we can help and i will say COUNT ON IT. Will continue filming the Steorn production and will have all these cases and a way to help.

Don't forget that the switch if SECURE is the cheapest power to weight ratio and self contained unit, its small and powerful so we need to TURN IT BACK UP.

Gotta stick together bottom line. Sad day for Rick and John, they deserve better! I am down to help. Please use the switch and tell people what it can do and how we can help.

For Rick /John.

Thanks
Ash

3MTAE
09-03-2010, 03:56 PM
That is a bunch of crap.

I bought this thing. It cost a **** ton. And doesn't do what they "said" it could do.

It is called a solar AMPLIFIER though.

To say they look bad is understatement. Are you kidding? They dipped the thing in Resin so no one could look at it or tweak it.

Who knows what is in it. If they cared they could of left it open to learn from or tweak ourselves.

I'm sorry..but the cat needs to be let out of the bag..as you say.. I have to admit I feel very very swindled.

Safe conditions eh? Guess what. If John Bedini had sold me a solar amplifier that could output just a little bit more than the input.. It could have grown such a huge following around this product that John would be a national hero almost overnight.. And I think I'm not the only one that planned to demonstrate this unit to every official and money base within our scope.

Instead john Bedini sold us a sham that has done nothing but solidify the discreditor stance.

So how the hell does John Bedini missing the oppurtunity to spread his technology in shelf-ready tangible and practicle form to the masses equat to us needing to help him more?

He could of helped himself and all those that trusted in buying his expansive solar charger by building them Over unity.. "tuned down" is different than a loss of power. A BIG difference.

If it was 1 amp more he could of been a hero. Instead it reaks of scam. It's his fault. And being brillant doesn't compensate for that. He has not made any public remarks on this either.. That i know of.. how about promising the suckers that bought your "tuned down" version a new one once you get John his fortress.

Yeah. once you build John his fortknox THEN he can ship out tesla charger that produce OU..

he could of gained alot of support.. now it's lost. don't know the strategy but he failed. I don't see how releasing these OU could of done anything but spread the message and agenda.

Im sorry, but it's bull****. He could of produced irrefutable technology that OU and instead did nothing.

bull****. There won't be a castle big enough to protect John if he doesn't get his product out there.. fast.

Evolvealready
09-03-2010, 08:32 PM
I'm sorry, if anyone is foolish enough to pay for anything from a laughingly obvious scammer like Bedini, I have to shake my head in disbelief.
Why do you think they call it "Oh YOU!"

Michelinho
09-04-2010, 12:29 AM
Hi Vissie i did that test and filmed it for all, i was going make a public statement in our new Steorn production and in here on how we can help Rick and John. May as well be now.

John said on PES he dare not turn it up, he has no security. Before i go on.

THE CHARGER IS WORTH EVERY PENNY.:) Ill still be using it for Demos. And people need to still get this charger FOR A VERY IMPORTANT REASON. As John stated he "dare not turn it up" and there is a reason he took his OU video's of the solar amplifier down.

They have got to John before. John and Rick need help, they need secure condition's before they can give us what the universe has provided. I am here not to judge John or Rick but HELP them. This is why as soon as that little orbo is ready (getting close now) an organization like Panacea is needed to substantiate the phenomenon of FREE energy to consensus reality not just in Tesla tech type conferences.(they do help)

Let the cat out of the bag with all cases AND POTENTIAL, (it AIN'T getting back in once out) and therefore provide HELP to Rick and John (SAFE conditions) so they can get the kudos they deserve for making an OVER UNITY SOLAR AMPLIFIER. Vissie we both know John has had it since 1980.

We need secure conditions for disclosure, even the corporate environment (not just social reform) and PUBLIC (not conferences only) education about these systems and their capacity and the need for security into the release of them.

Our Tests test confirm , John had to tune it down, he said that already on Peswiki, No surprises there. So how do we help, its still a great one to one charger, unique, John Koorn has been very supportive of the non profit org a perfect gentleman and provided help and support with the switch so we can do our environmental projects.

We need to help all inventors, John took his Tesla switch video's down and stated draw your own conclusions about the I/O. Rick would of wanted us all to have it, no doubt in my mind.

When people buy the switch, they can learn about what it can do if they read about it in here, the Panacea page or on Peswiki
John Bedini (http://panacea-bocaf.org/johnbedini.htm)

The R- Charge guys cant do this on their own. We should not expect them too. John K, JIM, VISSIE are all working on Jim's open source 10 coiler which could be the one to let the cat out of the bag.

We need to keep going. As ANY ONE OF THEM, can be used with a presentation of our caliber to justify secure safe conditions, whether you want the NON PROFIT Panacea research center for this, or ANY alternative it doesn't matter what matter's is the safe conditions can only come from building consumer awareness and demand WITH A VALIDATED Free energy principle. A replicated application not meters.

Once that happens (maybe the Orbo will be the first, not by Stoern by developers) then We can HELP Rick and John better.

If people dont use their switch we are going to be further behind. Either way ill be talking about ALL the suppression and how to erect secure conditions in the public eye with our public demos(Steron production have been filming for weeks), a little orbo could do all this.

I am sorry to give every one the bad news that the solar amplifier is tuned down (and we can't turn it back up) but we can help and i will say COUNT ON IT. Will continue filming the Steorn production and will have all these cases and a way to help.

Don't forget that the switch if SECURE is the cheapest power to weight ratio and self contained unit, its small and powerful so we need to TURN IT BACK UP.

Gotta stick together bottom line. Sad day for Rick and John, they deserve better! I am down to help. Please use the switch and tell people what it can do and how we can help.

For Rick /John.

Thanks
Ash

I know I won't make friends with the following but here goes anyway.

You say that everyone should buy a very expensive Bedini Solar Amplifier, my solar charge controller is a Xantrex C60 that does what it is suppose to do and cost me $175CDN with the LCD display, and you tell us it doesn't do what it is suppose to do and there is no way to tune it up.

That doesn't make sense, or it makes as much sense as buying a 10 coiler for $4,500US that doesn't do what the original is suppose to do. It's like buying a Ferrari with a Lada power train, looks nice in the driveway but... I hope there are better reasons out there to buy that solar amplifier than faith.

Take care,

Michel

John_K
09-04-2010, 01:10 AM
@3MTAE, Evolvealready & Michelinho,

I have a 10A Tesla Solar Power Amplifier and it works great. It does everything it is claimed to do, which is (from the website):

Some of the features of the Tesla Solar Power Amplifier are:

1. Replaces or eliminates the need for a conventional charge controller
2. Increases the power output from your solar panel installation
3. Allows limited space solar panel installations to experience greater power production.
4. Produces power during in overcast skies and low levels of ambient light.
5. Batteries are kept in an optimal state extending their useful life.
6. The Amp Hour capacity of your battery bank will be increased.

Which of the above is yours not doing?

No one has ever claimed that what was brought to market was going to be an "OU" device. John said in the videos that they were "developing" the product, what was seen in the videos was a prototype.

Let me also ask, if you did have an "OU" device how would you bring it to market? Would you be able to handle all the attention, politics and potential repercussions if you could bring it to market? Remember, John and Rick do this for a living - to put a meal on the table and pay the bills and put the kids through college.

The Tesla Solar Power Amplifier does exactly what it is claimed to do. No one is forcing anyone to buy one of they don't want to. From my experience, if you buy one you will be happy with it. If you're not happy with it, tell the people you bought it from (like any other product you would buy) and see what they can do about it.

I know people that have returned iPhones because they were not happy with it, but that does not mean it is not a good product. Millions of people are happy with them.

:cheers:

John K.

ashtweth
09-04-2010, 02:01 AM
Hi 3MTAE, Evolvealready & Michelinho

In the real world, the charger is still the only thing that can do what it can do, you would not charge your lead acid batteries from solar any other way. And its some thing we can build on, John gave us the proof and now we can use it to make a case.

In all respect, John already said he dare not turn it up, so what can we expect?, Certainly not John to overcome what no other inventor in history has BY HIMSELF, Certainly not just like that? It is obvious that John does not intend to have oil companies threaten his life and has to be conservative.

We know what the switch does, the threat of his life means a lot more in reality, so i ask that you guys think about this. There are ways we can help a situation, finding answers is the only way we must not vent frustration as this will mean we are going to get a lot more frustration out of life with this attitude.

John K is right, it is exactly what John said it was, "i dare not turn it up" he said that, john Bedini did not say here is an over unity switch for the public, he said draw your own conclusions which is still very risky if you ask me but he did it.. He can only do what he can do ALONE, its up to US as a community to make the best of it, help and we can do more.

The web site states every thing it can do. Mean time good people like John K and JIM and myself will work to find ways to help. I hope you guys do too, AT THE VERY LEAST tell people about the switch and what it can do and HAS done.

Edit -BTW BOTH of you have Posts: 2 , hope your IP is not BP , i do keep a watch on things like that:) The OU forum.com is riddled with these people that come from no where.

Ash

jehdds
09-04-2010, 03:58 AM
Quick Question/Concept to ponder?: Regarding the following Quote:

"John K is right, it is exactly what John said it was, "i dare not turn it up" he said that, john Bedini did not say here is an over unity switch for the public, he said draw your own conclusions which is still very risky if you ask me but he did it.. He can only do what he can do ALONE, its up to US as a community to make the best of it, help and we can do more."

Is it possible, plausible, theoretically feasible to do what John B. has eluded to and shown what the prototype can do, but at this point cannot or will not, due to extraneous advise of others? Is the last part of the quote:
" Its up to US as a community to make the best of "it", help and we can do more."

Perhaps Is this a read between the line concept? As with any fine product, any manufacturer would like it to be the best. Perhaps it can be but it is up to the clients to make it better ( either by input back to the manufacturer and wait, or perhaps by thinking on their own how to make it better. The question is what path is best?

Just a thought.

Very Best Regards
Jim

Michelinho
09-04-2010, 05:28 AM
Hi John_K and ash,



Some of the features of the Tesla Solar Power Amplifier are:

1. Replaces or eliminates the need for a conventional charge controller
2. Increases the power output from your solar panel installation
3. Allows limited space solar panel installations to experience greater power production.
4. Produces power during in overcast skies and low levels of ambient light.
5. Batteries are kept in an optimal state extending their useful life.
6. The Amp Hour capacity of your battery bank will be increased.

Which of the above is yours not doing?

So far mine does what it is advertised to do and very well after 2 years of use. I expect my batteries to outlast me since they are Nickel Iron. Mine can also control a windmill (divert to a load when batteries are full), start a generator when the batteries are low and shut it down when they are full, show battery temp and can be used with 12V or 24V solar panels/windmill and battery setup. Very nice little unit for the price. Which of those yours doesn't do?

How long have you been using yours? 5 years, 10 years or just a few weeks?

I never said it wasn't a good solar charge controller but for 10X the price, I expect WAY more than a normal product.

Let me also ask, if you did have an "OU" device how would you bring it to market?

Through Open Source.

Do you really believe that John has to sell those to make a living?

Ash, I studied in business administration and included were a few course in advertising and "i dare not turn it up" reminds me of the infomercials on TV but I will watch the Panacea's video(s) of a unit in action and see if it really does what it is advertised to do.

A side by side comparison of a conventional unit and a Solar Power Amplifier?

Take care,

Michel

Angelinabv
09-04-2010, 05:36 AM
Hi,

For the cost of them, not to mention the lead time, I'll stick with the good ole' reliable Xantrex controllers for 147.00 for 60 amp use ( C60). I've looked at the MPPT controllers which are quite nice in how they work but I doubt you'll ever see a payback from using them. The few watts you loose in conventional controllers far exceeds the cost of recovering those small losses.

Another nice feature of the Xantrex controllers is they can be used for wind as well as solar as they can be configured for a basic controller (solar), diversion controller(wind) and a load controller which allows you to use a load based on battery voltage. Inexpensive and versitile.

Technical Consulting Services (http://www.sterling-energy.com)

Mark
09-04-2010, 02:28 PM
John stated that "I dare not turn it up", why not? The last I heard all solar amp. were sold out, all of them! Why not just turn them up? I don't know how many were being built while the orders pilled up waiting for their release, but that would have been the perfect opportunity to send out a bunch of units into the hands of the public that were in fact over unity. Send them out with an exposed circuit board so anyone that bought one could see how they were built. Once a 1,000 of these units were in the public what could be done about it then? So what if some people could replicate them. I'd still buy one just like I'm sure most people would. The cat would be out of the bag. A real gift to humanity. I don't want to say anything negative about John or his products but things just don't add up to me.

Mark

theremart
09-04-2010, 04:05 PM
Hi,

For the cost of them, not to mention the lead time, I'll stick with the good ole' reliable Xantrex controllers for 147.00 for 60 amp use ( C60). I've looked at the MPPT controllers which are quite nice in how they work but I doubt you'll ever see a payback from using them. The few watts you loose in conventional controllers far exceeds the cost of recovering those small losses.

Another nice feature of the Xantrex controllers is they can be used for wind as well as solar as they can be configured for a basic controller (solar), diversion controller(wind) and a load controller which allows you to use a load based on battery voltage. Inexpensive and versitile.

Technical Consulting Services (http://www.sterling-energy.com)

Hi,

Where do you get that price on one, Xantrex is a solid brand like outback, I myself decided to go with a Morningstar controller with cheap solar panels the price has come down. The Morningstar works great as it gives full charge till it is full then it gives spiked charge to the batteries, has been working great for me.

I am still waiting for someone to show amps in amps out with the Bedini chargers. I know what the video that Bedini showed, but that was taken down, I take it that is not what the ones shipped do?

Looking forward to seeing the results from Aarons test and others who have bought them, and to see them per model, seems there are 3 different models out.

It would be interesting to do side by side comparison of controllers.

Farmhand
09-04-2010, 09:24 PM
Hi all, I see a lot of people are wanting overunity, I gotta say I don't understand the hoopla with the overunity, it's not that I don't believe it exists I just don't see it as important to a sustainable and clean future. If the switch is more efficient than conventional controllers, thats good enough for me.

Until about 8 months ago I didn't even know a battery could be saved or improved by Bedini tech, over the last few months I have been able to save a few and improve many batteries with my home made devices, so I can only imagine how effective the one's are that are made by the experts. I don't have a Tesla Power amp but I am going to get one.

Solar panels are expensive so I don't have many but the power they produce once paid for, is free, and what can be done with that power is amazing and yet there is no overunity, it is not needed, for me i'll go straight for the free stuff.

The look on a friends face when you have fixed their battery for free is priceless. I just did a quick tally and in the last two months I have recovered four cordless drill batteries, two 7ah gell cells (electric fence) a 9ah gell cell (quadbike), my own car battery (over 10 years old) and my brothers boat battery (new but left drained and not chargeable by conventional charger).

I would like to see a side by side comparison of the TPA and a regular charge controller, to gauge the difference of the panel to battery efficiency.

Regards
Andrew

mklimesh
09-04-2010, 10:13 PM
Hi All

I have 2 of the Tesla Solar Power Amplifiers, a 10amp and a 20amp one. At the moment the 20amp one is hooked to 2 120watt panels charging one of my forklift banks. Amp meter in shows aprox 3.5 amps, output shows aprox 10.3 amps (about 3 to 1).
When I had the 20amp one hooked up to a 24volt switching supply the output to input was about 10 to 1 (+_+)

The 20amp one has been running for about 2.5 months now and has charged 4 different forklift battery banks (biggest battery bank is 1600 lbs), a couple of banks of L-16s and about 10 others.

In my opinion these chargers do better than the videos showed and I'm glad I bought them.

Mike Klimesh

SeaMonkey
09-04-2010, 11:20 PM
Hi All

I have 2 of the Tesla Solar Power Amplifiers, a 10amp and a 20amp one. At the moment the 20amp one is hooked to 2 120watt panels charging one of my forklift banks. Amp meter in shows aprox 3.5 amps, output shows aprox 10.3 amps (about 3 to 1).
When I had the 20amp one hooked up to a 24volt switching supply the output to input was about 10 to 1 (+_+)

The 20amp one has been running for about 2.5 months now and has charged 4 different forklift battery banks (biggest battery bank is 1600 lbs), a couple of banks of L-16s and about 10 others.

In my opinion these chargers do better than the videos showed and I'm glad I bought them.

Mike Klimesh

Are you able to measure the voltages associated with
the input and output in order to do a power transfer
efficiency calculation?

Is the output pulsating or continuous?

theremart
09-04-2010, 11:58 PM
Hi All

I have 2 of the Tesla Solar Power Amplifiers, a 10amp and a 20amp one. At the moment the 20amp one is hooked to 2 120watt panels charging one of my forklift banks. Amp meter in shows aprox 3.5 amps, output shows aprox 10.3 amps (about 3 to 1).
When I had the 20amp one hooked up to a 24volt switching supply the output to input was about 10 to 1 (+_+)

The 20amp one has been running for about 2.5 months now and has charged 4 different forklift battery banks (biggest battery bank is 1600 lbs), a couple of banks of L-16s and about 10 others.

In my opinion these chargers do better than the videos showed and I'm glad I bought them.

Mike Klimesh
Impressive results, but...

can you give us the watts in watts out...

What is the voltage going into the charger, and what is the voltage of the batteries.

Thanks

I have considered Forklift batteries, but they are soo HEAVY :-) I understand that they last a very very long time but are a real bear if you have a cell go bad.

Mart

Mark
09-05-2010, 02:31 AM
Hi Theremart

I think it will be hard to give watts out on the solar amp due to the fact that it is a pulse charge.

I just built a small scale version which puts out a 3-4 amp pulse at around 25 volts. The pulses are slow tho, only 15 per minute. I have tried quicker pulses with lower amps and voltage but that doesn't seem to work as well as using a straight oscillator into a battery. I'm hoping that the higher amp higher voltage pulses will work better. The 3-4 amp pulses works great on a motor cycle battery, I'm currently testing it on an automotive battery.

Aaron
09-05-2010, 07:57 AM
Does anyone mind if I personally quote or copy the posts here as testimonials,
reviews, experiences, etc... with the chargers?

Thanks!

John_K
09-05-2010, 09:59 AM
Does anyone mind if I personally quote or copy the posts here as testimonials,
reviews, experiences, etc... with the chargers?

Thanks!

Hi Aaron,

You can use anything that I have posted in the public domain as quotes or testimonials, including posts on the Tesla Solar Power Amplifiers.

:cheers:

John K.

Aaron
09-05-2010, 09:48 PM
Thanks John and to few others that gave me positive feedback through PM's.
And I'm very much appreciative of the comments about appreciating that I
actually ask for permission. I just think it is the right thing to do.

----------------------

Finally! Tesla Chargers Affiliate Program (http://www.teslachargers.com/affiliateprogram.html)

If you have an email, website, facebook page, etc...

It's free to join and easy to get referral commissions
without having to have any inventory.

abb8279
09-06-2010, 05:02 PM
Ok so nobody is going to try using a battery to power the solar amplifier on the input? Are you worried about the battery giving too many amps? How many amps can the solar amplifier handle? Can you pick a 12 volt battery that only puts out as many amps as the solar amplifier can handle? There has to be a way to test this thing and see what it can really do.

If the batteries give to many amps can you rig up some diodes to restrict the suppy of amps?

C'mon sombody has to try testing this thing!

Aaron
09-06-2010, 10:54 PM
Abb,

You can put the correct amount of resistance in series with the battery
to limit the current draw - that is a pretty standard way of doing it.

Peter is testing the Tesla Solar Charger (http://www.teslachargers.com/products.html#s10a) (10 amp one I think) on some
golf cart batts and the input is rectified output from a variac - 36v
max is the limit on the input I think - don't quote me on that. Safer
to stay at 24 or below I think.

john_g
09-07-2010, 08:58 AM
Thanks John and to few others that gave me positive feedback through PM's.
And I'm very much appreciative of the comments about appreciating that I
actually ask for permission. I just think it is the right thing to do.

----------------------

Finally! Tesla Chargers Affiliate Program (http://www.teslachargers.com/affiliateprogram.html)

If you have an email, website, facebook page, etc...

It's free to join and easy to get referral commissions
without having to have any inventory.

Hi Aaron

Do you have any details on dealerships (Iím in the UK) for either the solar charger or the new product coming?

Kind regards

John

Mark
09-07-2010, 01:00 PM
Ya, and when are we going to get some more info on this new product!

ashtweth
09-08-2010, 02:19 AM
Aaron ill have 4-5 sulfated batteries back and tested soon for you and John K to post, can put what ever affiliation on it you wish my friends:) .

So far this thing has been working non stop and has revived 2 batteries, average is 2-3 days to bring them back in full sun. unbelievable charger, i even negatively charged the deep cycle battery which got hammered with the sun light for years. This charger should be on all lead acid batteries in the world, no doubt about it. Would love to try super caps ASAP

Ash

3MTAE
09-11-2010, 03:22 PM
Im really really interested in hearing HOW you intend to create a safe place for John to release his products in the way we all think he can.

This is legitimate questions here.. Im not trying to bash John or any of this.. I've caught , what I think, is a big discrepancy in what is going on.

I hear ya.. john can't do it alone.. john needs people.. Well.. I volunteer. Tell me how to make.. I will Ship them. I don't care..my life can be threatened.. I will still ship them..

Just like mark said.

I would of done, what I think, Bedini should of done.. I would of let all the orders pile up..and Ship out 1000's.. or whatever there was.. out all at once.. And then maybe hide if I was scared.. perhaps I would go to your farm.. or maybe not.. I might not because I have no clue at all what you mean when you say things like WE need to help john.. I don't get it. What can you offer him..or what are you trying to offer him exactly?

It sounds like you want the world to change first and then john can release his product? I just don't see how it's ever gonna be easy. I would just do it.

St. Nike.. JUST DO IT. lol

So.. if someone could address the obvious.. I would be thrilled.. Why didn't John release 1000's all at once ? "tuned up" .. is there reasons why that oppurtunity didn't transpire that you know of? AND.. what exactly are we waiting for.. what is it you are wanting to help and how?

If this is offensive.. I don't mean it that way.. It's jus that a big oppurtunity was missed as far as i can see and suddenly the senior members here are "rallying" the troops behind all this for reasons I don't quite understand yet.

Don't mean to put you or anyone on the spot to be spokesman or anything.. but you guys do pull all the weight around here so perhaps someone could explain their ideas concerning what I just posted about here.

much respect

SeaMonkey
09-12-2010, 12:28 AM
Im really really interested in hearing HOW you intend to create a safe place for John to release his products in the way we all think he can.

This is legitimate questions here.. Im not trying to bash John or any of this.. I've caught , what I think, is a big discrepancy in what is going on.
...

If this is offensive.. I don't mean it that way.. It's jus that a big opportunity was missed as far as i can see and suddenly the senior members here are "rallying" the troops behind all this for reasons I don't quite understand yet.

Don't mean to put you or anyone on the spot to be spokesman or anything.. but you guys do pull all the weight around here so perhaps someone could explain their ideas concerning what I just posted about here.

much respect

There is one very troubling detail in all of this:

The pricing of the various units.

Is there some reason that they must be so expensive?

The "common people" who could most benefit from
such devices are, for the time being, excluded by the
high cost.

Or, is there some plan to make the "plans" available
for the World?

In truth, the concepts employed in the device are
very easy to duplicate. Many who have given it
thought have already figured it out and are making
their own devices.

Now, that is a plan!

John_K
09-12-2010, 01:57 AM
There is one very troubling detail in all of this:

The pricing of the various units.

Is there some reason that they must be so expensive?

The "common people" who could most benefit from
such devices are, for the time being, excluded by the
high cost.

Or, is there some plan to make the "plans" available
for the World?

In truth, the concepts employed in the device are
very easy to duplicate. Many who have given it
thought have already figured it out and are making
their own devices.

Now, that is a plan!

C'mon Seamonkey, you gotta be kidding?

Everyone knows that you pay a premium when any new product is released. Think back to when mobile phones were just released, they were ludicrously expensive.. now they just about give them away.

The premium is to cover the cost of R&D and manufacturing setup costs. Whilst R&D is happening the inventor is investing a lot of money into the product and not getting anything back.

In any case the price of the solar chargers are comparable to other high performance solar charge controllers that are already on the market AND they do a lot more than a conventional unit. You're welcome to come to my shed and I'll give you a demo if you don't believe me.

There are no plans to release the "plans" in the same way Apple has no plans to release it's proprietary information for the iPhone.

The concepts may be easy enough to duplicate, but many people do not have the skills or resources to do it. I'm sure an iPhone does not cost $700 to build, but I don't have the time, money, skills or knowledge to build one so like most people I'm happy to fork out $700 for someone else to do that all for me.

The other consideration is the supply and demand model. Regardless of the cost to build a device, if people are happy to pay the price that advertised to purchase one then that price will remain high. If the demand is high enough, the seller has an opportunity to recoup the above mentioned costs.

On the other hand, you have a choice. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you like it but don't want to pay the price - like any other product on the market - wait until the price comes down, or build your own if you can.

:cheers:

John K.

SeaMonkey
09-12-2010, 05:31 AM
The "Bedini Line" has a history of rather high prices.

It's a Brand Name and perhaps Quality that seems
to demand a sticker price that appeals to the
well to do.

With this particular device the R&D outlay can't
have been exhorbitant.

Yes, those with Wisdom will always use discernment
and make a choice that avoids excessive expense.

There is much satisfaction in the fruits of one's own
labors.

Aaron
09-12-2010, 07:11 AM
The "Bedini Line" has a history of rather high prices.

It's a Brand Name and perhaps Quality that seems
to demand a sticker price that appeals to the
well to do.

With this particular device the R&D outlay can't
have been exhorbitant.

Yes, those with Wisdom will always use discernment
and make a choice that avoids excessive expense.

There is much satisfaction in the fruits of one's own
labors.

SeaMonkey,

Please understand that coming to this point where the chargers
are now was not an overnight task. It was been a PROCESS
of R & D nonstop for years. It was about 7 years ago - around -
when Peter was working with John doing all those tests, etc...
before there was a unit even available to the public.

Unless you were right here actually watching the progress over
all that time, I understand it would be difficult to appreciate what
it really takes in terms of time, effort and a LOT of money to
accomplish something like this. And that is a LOT of overhead
month after month for years.

And that doesn't include the headache of what it takes to simply
have the company organized as a corporation, take it public,
keep up on all the filings and politics involved - it's pretty ridiculous.

Every unit is HAND built and tested right here in the USA. I think
it is very special to see a company that isn't interested in cutting
costs and outsourcing the assembly to China for example. You
really do get what you pay for.

Being wise with expenses is one thing but whenever it sacrifices
QUALITY, that isn't going to happen with the Bedini's.

These chargers are not a household name in the present moment and
they're going to cost more than something at Walmart.

There is something called "economy of scale" - basically costs come down
when you do something bigger/more. If the auto manufacturers were building
cars in much smaller quantities at a time than they do now, the average family
car could cost more than the average family home.

As you scale up production, the cost per unit drops because you get
better wholesale bulk discounts on items, etc... and the company can
afford to drop the retail price and make it up in volume.

One of the best non-commerical applications of this technology is for
private individuals that have solar homes. And if someone has the money
to buy solar cells, batteries, etc... they're going to be spending money
anyway for a charge controller - and as John K. mentions the Bedini
charger for this application is already in the price arena that the
other common controllers are going for so for that application for
example, it is already priced right - and the long term benefits of not having
to replace the battery banks as often or if ever is all a smart homeowner
needs to see on the bottom line for it to be a no-brainer decision to get
one.

As far as making the "plans" available. These particular switching circuits
are proprietary. But if it is based on the Tesla Switch models, then John
actually gave the answers in the Tesla Switch thread here in the forum
as to what the Tesla Switch is really about.

Even without the Tesla Switch variation, there are many variations of
Bedini's circuits that many people have successfully built for rejuvenating
and charging batteries, keeping them out of the landfill, etc... so those
"plans" are actually all over the place. It doesn't have to be the Tesla
Switch to accomplish this.

And it doesn't matter if the system is over 1.0 cop or not, the benefits
received are priceless.

The EnergenX chargers are quite literally setting the standard for what
battery chargers are supposed to do. We're still in the "early adapters"
phase of this technology as were the first people that bought
refrigerators when most people thought they were pointless or too
expensive.

It is just a matter of time until these chargers are sold in volumes that
can justify reducing the prices substantially. And again, if you're looking
for plans you're probably willing to build them yourself and there are many
variations of Bedini's circuits that will accomplish in a battery just what
you want.

ashtweth
09-12-2010, 02:32 PM
Im really really interested in hearing HOW you intend to create a safe place for John to release his products in the way we all think he can.

This is legitimate questions here.. Im not trying to bash John or any of this.. I've caught , what I think, is a big discrepancy in what is going on.

I hear ya.. john can't do it alone.. john needs people.. Well.. I volunteer. Tell me how to make.. I will Ship them. I don't care..my life can be threatened.. I will still ship them..

Just like mark said.

I would of done, what I think, Bedini should of done.. I would of let all the orders pile up..and Ship out 1000's.. or whatever there was.. out all at once.. And then maybe hide if I was scared.. perhaps I would go to your farm.. or maybe not.. I might not because I have no clue at all what you mean when you say things like WE need to help john.. I don't get it. What can you offer him..or what are you trying to offer him exactly?

It sounds like you want the world to change first and then john can release his product? I just don't see how it's ever gonna be easy. I would just do it.

St. Nike.. JUST DO IT. lol

So.. if someone could address the obvious.. I would be thrilled.. Why didn't John release 1000's all at once ? "tuned up" .. is there reasons why that oppurtunity didn't transpire that you know of? AND.. what exactly are we waiting for.. what is it you are wanting to help and how?

If this is offensive.. I don't mean it that way.. It's jus that a big oppurtunity was missed as far as i can see and suddenly the senior members here are "rallying" the troops behind all this for reasons I don't quite understand yet.

Don't mean to put you or anyone on the spot to be spokesman or anything.. but you guys do pull all the weight around here so perhaps someone could explain their ideas concerning what I just posted about here.

much respect

Nike is a sweat shop factory which WILL be replaced by HEMP and create renewable industry and self sufficiency for 50, 000 products, NIKE is using toxic material that consume the habitat, plus segregated and subjected humans for cheap labor so one "class" can life a certian TOXIC lifestyle whilst they subjugate others. Nike "just do it". advertising is tweaking your mind.

Now that we are on the REALITY PAGE.

In an ideal world, maybe, but in the real world, you will have to watch our production on Steorn to see the intricate details on how you can help and what we propose with our research center in the public eye. I have met Joe as in the joe cell and many other inventors, they are all scared for a very good reason.

Me, i am not scared as i know that when our first demos are done, safe conditions through our research center will encourage the truth in Alt medicine and much more will come out, a home for all devices past and present to be studied and policed. More details will be in our production this year.

mean time i suggest you support Aaron, John K and JB, after all one day you might be able to turn it up.

Ash

SeaMonkey
09-12-2010, 08:01 PM
SeaMonkey,

...

It is just a matter of time until these chargers are sold in volumes that
can justify reducing the prices substantially. And again, if you're looking
for plans you're probably willing to build them yourself and there are many
variations of Bedini's circuits that will accomplish in a battery just what
you want.

I am aware that John is a businessman, and
that he's learned the "skills" of marketing very
well.

In truth, the concept which is incorporated into
the device is well established and not new. The
process of accumulating "charge" then dumping
it as a high current "pulse" into the lead acid
battery has been known to be beneficial for quite
some many years. That this technique is particularly
well suited to the PhotoVoltaic Solar Array to maximize
its efficiency over its range of output conditions is
also well established.

So no, I'm not looking for plans. They've already been
developed by a good many of us in prior years.

My concerns have to do with "commercialism" and
the possibility of "exploitation for gain." I've always
objected to unnecessarily high prices for anything.

Hopefully my concerns are unfounded...

mklimesh
09-12-2010, 09:57 PM
In truth, the concept which is incorporated into
the device is well established and not new. The
process of accumulating "charge" then dumping
it as a high current "pulse" into the lead acid
battery has been known to be beneficial for quite
some many years.

SeaMonkey,

Your statement shows you haven't put a scope on John's new charger(+_+)

Mike Klimesh

3MTAE
09-12-2010, 11:44 PM
Seamonkey.. I actually deleted a portion of my previous post concerning the extreme high price.. ( I didn't want to be accused of being BP affliated again)

I look inside my telsa solar AMPLIFYER and it's basically hollow with a little playing card sized resin covered circuit board with a visible capacitor and some leads..a light bulb too i think..etc. I deleted something to the effect of.. " there is no way their is 450$ worth of parts and labor."

I wrote it in context of me voluteering to build 1000's at my own expanse and give them away.

Ash.. and others. I am serious.

I will do what Bedini should of done. I am not scared. And If I get too hot..etc.. there will be others to covertly carry on. You can't stop good intentions and you can't stop giving away "gifts" . I will give a majority to key people.. and I will certainly find quality placement for the others.

Nothing in my post was addressed! I got a little rant on the evilness of corporate slave labor. How about just a comment regarding the point being made?

You know.. the REALITY of the Question posted? (kidding)

lol.. sorry but wow. You totally ignored my post and instead brought in irrelvant topic with mild put down.. soo I could repost.. or perhaps someone could just read it and answer back..

I am kinda worried here.

To simplify..( i know communcation can be tough..)

1) Why didn't John throw in "tuned up" version while we all waited months for the orders to pile up and deliveries to be made? ( just any insights or first hand knowledge or theories)

2) Since I know it's the best/ perhaps only way.. I purpose to do it Myself.. I will build them.. and Give them away.. I want nothing to do with the owning the brand or making money.. none of it. I will sell it under his name and be completly annoymous or whatever .. I want the "tuned up" version out in the public en mass.

We need to help John right?? I have no production costs..I know these devices do not cost that much to build.. I know WE can pool resources and get these devices into key places in our society all over.

Like I said.. without drudging up painful memories of children slave labor.. Once it's done it done. just do it

Till then I guess we have to donate to the " Bedini : Someday Fund "

Great.."Someday" hasn't come in long long while. I hope someone can respond to the merits of this plan. I am serious. I think we all can help I think this is the plan.

For the cost of one Tesla Solar cheap one.. 450$ I believe each member here could build a nice little little bundle of these .. 10 - 15 etc.. for that price cost range.. we could have that many in our local communites.. working and being exposed.

It costs Bedini nothing. and it secures his technology. Plus no worries.. after the effects are varified and en mass.. the rest will be more than willing to line Bedini and Co.'s pockets.

But I have to agree. It the intent of Bedini is to make money right now. Our resources could be used to spread this Technology. I think our money.. the money of this group on this forum.. our intent has been to spread this technology.

anyway. I hope no one minds If i periodically repost until someone gives a response? let me know. thanks.

AND.. I have to mention the marketing ploy of Bedini posting OU video and then selling non-OU products.. Innocent Im sure.. but come on. He has a base of people.. He knows they will see that.. I agree with the mantra posted here..Don't buy if you don't want too.. but again.. come on. That was low ball.

I will expose my flaw. I saw that and believed " dare not Tune Up " meant " it's stilled tuned up a little" YOu know? Not Tuned up is a alot different than " Normal Loss of Power" It's my hard earned money. I also read into the time delay on orders as his ploy to conslodate orders and ship a bunch "tuned up" at once. ( again..i know no one said that) But the intent was not that.

I think the people on this forum are here to Spread this Technology.

I think the people selling Bedini's are obviously making money.

on top of my other 2 points.. I guess I want to know what the link is between Bedini Making money right now.. and the intent of the people to get OU exposed to the public in large amounts..we need this technology more than ever. whats the plan?

I support Bedini. I support Ash and his University. But I am Dedicated to Humanity.

muchlove much Respect.

ashtweth
09-13-2010, 12:22 AM
We all appreciate your sincere sentiments , some times it takes that guerrilla attitude to win :) Unfortunately in the real world things never work out they way we expect them, the rationalism is never rationale :rolleyes: :) , but that doesn't mean that we cannot WORK TOGETHER to change it.

The more people get this switch and spread the information (Pes has the OU reading so has Panacea) the better it can be for all of us. This charger will be used in many demos here and on TV next year (like we took Rick's kit on TV last year) for that very reason. SUPPORT.

John can't do this By himself. Its a cry for help guys, and it involves us, its a matter of who can step up to the plate and support this research. And what do we get also, its still the best charger i have seen even turned down:) .

SeaMonkey
09-13-2010, 12:24 AM
SeaMonkey,

Your statement shows you haven't put a scope on John's new charger(+_+)

Mike Klimesh

That is true.

However, based upon what has been reported in
conjunction with known technology, there aren't
many alternatives.

"Radiant" is easily produced.

PV panels produce a widely varying electrical
output.

The care and feeding of lead acid batteries
requires high intensity but very brief pulses to
accomplish Desulfation, Rejuvenation and
Equalization most efficiently.

Putting it all together is a "piece of cake."

ashtweth
09-13-2010, 12:30 AM
That is true.

However, based upon what has been reported in
conjunction with known technology, there aren't
many alternatives.

"Radiant" is easily produced.

PV panels produce a widely varying electrical
output.

The care and feeding of lead acid batteries
requires high intensity but very brief pulses to
accomplish Desulfation, Rejuvenation and
Equalization most efficiently.

Putting it all together is a "piece of cake."

Hi SeaMonkey/ALL

I have the charger from the FEG book here, plus Rick';s kits and few others, i gotta say, none of them are as powerful as this switch for what its worth.

Ash

ashtweth
09-13-2010, 12:42 AM
Beware the dead walk the earth AGAIN.

The Sun is all powerful and god :D third battery from the junk yard back in 2-3 days guys, this one was really in a bad way so i left it on another day. It running one of Rick's fans holding well , well better then 2volts and a non convectional charge LOL

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/4701/0001443.jpg

I like this charger it would of taken me weeks to bring this back. We have 5Kw of junk batteries to bring back to promo the charger and the sun will do all of them effortlessly. Wish John K's and my job was a PVC panel LOL

Ash

Mark
09-13-2010, 02:57 AM
3MTAE,

I agree with you. And I just dont get it. The videos released that have been "removed by the user" show something different than what people actually paid for. I believe the product is worth the money but why it was detuned makes absolutely no sense at all. What does make sense is that it really is not tuned down and saying it is tuned down is all a marketing ploy.

If the time isn't right now for releasing a real over unity product with all the following this forum has and with the aid of the internet to send out mass emails with details to build one than the time will never come!

Ash, John K, Aaron and others I respect all of you and your work, but come on quit making excuses for why John hasn't released "The Goods".

I think the mighty dollar has some of you under his thumb. Money won't make you proud or happy. Giving is the only way to truly be free and happy. If "free energy" truly is possible it would with out a doubt change the world as we know it. If someone has this knowledge and doesn't get it out in the hands the people that is a crime on humanity and mother earth!

I hope I haven't stepped on too many toes and before I get bashed for what I posted I hope those that want to bash me really think about what I've said here.

Mark

UncleFester
09-13-2010, 04:29 AM
3MTAE,

I agree with you. And I just dont get it. The videos released that have been "removed by the user" show something different than what people actually paid for. I believe the product is worth the money but why it was detuned makes absolutely no sense at all. What does make sense is that it really is not tuned down and saying it is tuned down is all a marketing ploy.

If the time isn't right now for releasing a real over unity product with all the following this forum has and with the aid of the internet to send out mass emails with details to build one than the time will never come!

Ash, John K, Aaron and others I respect all of you and your work, but come on quit making excuses for why John hasn't released "The Goods".

I think the mighty dollar has some of you under his thumb. Money won't make you proud or happy. Giving is the only way to truly be free and happy. If "free energy" truly is possible it would with out a doubt change the world as we know it. If someone has this knowledge and doesn't get it out in the hands the people that is a crime on humanity and mother earth!

I hope I haven't stepped on too many toes and before I get bashed for what I posted I hope those that want to bash me really think about what I've said here.

Mark

The one selling appears to be an almost identical circuit that was already released and thus I believe the videos and such were taken down for that reason. The circuit itself costs about $30 to $45 American to build. Their nice Box has got to be at least $80-$100 American, cables and those fat diodes etc aren't cheap. It's probably got $200 in parts and labor into it not counting R & D. If you account for R & D costs over the years it would be selling for far more than $450 to $750. But still, for a charge controller it's one hell of a lot of money even though I have no doubt it's worth it.

It silly as it sounds it takes me one year to save up the $750 for the model I would need for my Off-Grid setup. And most of the people I know around here would probably be in the same situation. I hear them whining about buying a new 20Amp @ 12V charge controllers and such for $150-$200 all the time.

A better model would be High volume @ Lower prices, then raise the price up as demand becomes higher. That model actually allows you to break into a larger piece of the solar market without strangling people for every last penny.

I know of two people not on this forum that have already built the circuit, verified that it works and are beefing it up to handle far more current. I doubt they would ever sell a finished unit, but you may see some kits out soon.

P.S. I am not hammering on John. I believe everything he has done has been in an Altruistic manner. It's just that alot of us cannot easily afford any of the products produced and sold thus far. The people that need power that these products produce the most are typically the people that have the least cash to spare.

Tad

ashtweth
09-13-2010, 04:37 AM
Hi Mark, no one is making any excuses, neither has john,we know why he HAD to do that, go read on PES why he posted the vids and what he was saying. HE SAID THAT BEFORE PRODUCT release. He did his best. He has tried since 1980.

You have to come to terms that unless you have a device and can do the same thing, then you really can;t judge john my friend, no disrespect.

But we know what happened, its obvious. There is no need to trash it or john., if you dont want to help, that's fine. But none of us are interested in who can judge john and not help the situation, its time to come to terms that we have suppression. And its not as easy as you think.
not even Steorn have a generator running yet. But they will soon.

Rick tried to get it out there, i know that on good authority, no more needs to be said on this matter Its better you vent your frustration on energy that can help, john will give us things when it is safe too. ITS UP TO US TO MAKE THOSE CONDITIONS, he and every inventor in history today cannot do it by themselves, life is not that simple, it could be, but in the real world, with these devices it never goes that way.

Ask Rick and Ask john K, they are in a position to know they all wanted to release it the way it was intended. We still got a good charger and can help.

Now i have said waaaay more then is needed, so ill ask every one to reflect on whats said and help if they can, frustration will cause more frustration , so please be good to your selves and lets get on with life and collectively help make a difference. I wont be saying any more on the matter.

Ash

Aaron
09-13-2010, 07:44 AM
There is no one particular magic circuit that "if" it gets released will
save the world and benefit all humanity. It sounds like a good idea
but it isn't even necessary.

It would be the sexy-cool way to "solve" our phony energy crisis but
we have to get real!

I won't even mention what could be done with industrial power production,
because it is preaching to the choir.

The more important thing is what can we do "right here at home" for
ourselves - something WE have control over and can implement...

The average home wastes half the power the home owner/renter pays
for. There are leaks, poor insulation and a whole lot of other things that
allow money to just go up in a puff of smoke.

If it requires 10 solar panels for example to get one particular home
off the grid (simple example - just to make the point)... and if that
home wastes half the energy it uses, it is a waste of money to even
go solar for example.

Seal the leaks, upgrade insulation and add some extra easily available
things to take the insulation well above the phony "standards", and
a handful of other things - you cut your energy usage in half. If it is
electric usage, then you just reduced the amount of solar panels you
need by half to 5 for this example.

And if using something like the Bedini chargers, we'll - it's obvious.

The point is - what - have some cop 15.0 device to power our home
so we can be completely vain and waste half of what that device
produces just because it is in that much of abundance? This is in fact
where most people are sitting right now - in the position to waste
most of what they are going to get from any energy source be it
"free" or not.

The solution isn't to just have some "real goods" energy solution, the
real solution is to wake up and be smart about what we already have
in our hands and be glad we got smart about it!

If every home in the United States used its energy wisely, namely
the heating/cooling and insulation package, the load on the grid would
drop to such a substantial amount there would be surplus for MANY YEARS
without having to ever build another power station - and of course if
industry/commercial did the same, it would be self evident that we have
so much abundance its ridiculous.

Then once a home is using energy wisely, there is the option to go solar,
wind, geothermal heat pump, etc... and all the other things. All the
solutions are already here and could cost WAY less to us if we simply
utilized what we already have in a smarter way.

From the end of July to the 23 of Aug, my electric bill was $49.41 and
my house consumed 647kWh.

As a side note, your power meter doesn't read kWH, it reads kvar
but you're told it is kWh. In any case, 647/4.33 average weeks per month
= 149.42kWh/week divided by 7 days per week = 21.35kWh per day avg
divided by 24 hours per day = 889 watts per hour.

Obviously there are peaks and dips but for that time frame, my home
used an average of 889 watts going nonstop for 24 hours a day 7
days a week for an entire month. That might be a lot to someone that
is 100% solar off the grid and knows how to use power more wisely
than myself but for 6.1 cents per kWh, I'm not worried.

I don't believe in sacrificing my comfort to save a few dollars. I make
my home smart so I can do as I please without being a burden to the
grid or to the pocketbook.

Electric is cheap here anyway, 6.180 cents per kWh for the first 600 kWh
and then 7.178 cent per kWh for the next step over that. But my
electric bill is LESS than half of the neighbors.

I don't even need AC during the summer and it does get to 100F easily
even though I'm up north in Washington state. I open my attic
access panel, I place a common box fan over the hole and plug it in and
make it blow up to the roof. During the hot day, I close all doors and
windows and crack my basement door. It pulls 60F air from my basement,
through the house and up into the attic and this pushes the hot air
in the attic out through the gable and roof vents.

In the evening, I close the basement door and crack some windows
in the right places and with the right opening so the air flow impedances
are matched between the fan and the opening at the windows.

That is because I have a radiant heat reflective coating under every
square inch of paint in the house, aluminum radiant barrier across 1
ft of insulation in the entire attic, high energy efficient windows with
triple silver radiant reflective coating on the glass, etc...

And I don't have a free energy device to power my home ($49.41/month).

It doesn't even cost very much to do what I did and I'm not even done!
I could drop it way more but I'm not doing much more with this house
and am going to lease it out.

Doing the math, the last month electric bill cycle, it cost me $1.63USD
per day for my electricity. I know how to drop this home electricity bill
to $1.00USD or less per day but I'm not even interested at this point - it is
low enough to be very attractive to those that care to lease it.

And I don't even have any serious insulation in the walls (1954 home)! Paint additive
and silver coated windows and radiant barrier in attic does wonders! But
if I wanted to stay here long term, I'd have extra insulation blown into
the walls in addition to putting an insulative AND reflective coating on the
outside of the house and repaint.

WITHOUT a sexy and exotic free energy device, I could use common
and non-sexy solutions that are still free energy devices that are ALREADY
available - geothermal heat pumps, solar water heater, solar cells,
wind power, etc... they're all over 1.0 cop and would drop my bills
substantially - I know that and I don't have to blame anyone for not
making the "real" free energy technology available.

To be perfectly honest, it is irresponsible to wait around for some
cool electrical circuit to come along when all the solutions necessary for
energy independence are ALREADY here and have been even years before
I was born - not suppressed either - just things that have not been given
their due recognition.

But of course if I do anything with battery banks, Bedini is the only
way to go for sure - hands down no doubt about it.

Anyway, this long-winded post is just to point out - there are no excuses
and humanity is NOT suffering because John doesn't release everything
that is proprietary to him. It just isn't in the ballpark of reality to believe
such a thing.

His chargers solve MANY problems - they keep many batteries out
of the junkyard. If someone has money problems - go make connections
at golf courses, etc... and setup a deal to get their junk batteries.
They have to pay someone to haul them away so you're doing them a
favor. Rejuvenate what you can and resell the used batteries in your local
area through Craigslist.

And whatever batteries you can't rejuvenate, sell for scrap.

Go to the scrap yards and test the scrapped batteries - find the ones
that are promising and do some deal with them that they may front you
the batteries for x time and you pay them later for what you keep and
the rest you bring back. Go rejuvenate and sell them.

It is just a matter of creativity and desire. Anyone can make money
out of thin air - turning an idea in to cash on demand just by simply
doing it. Just having these chargers in existence opens up so many
possibilities it's insane!

If some some reason I found myself in a tough financial position and I
thank God everyday that I don't, but if I did, I can practically guarantee
that every golf course in town would be ringing my phone off the hook
begging me for an appointment.

Anyway, as a detail, more and more golf courses are leasing their
golf carts for the fact that they don't want to deal with battery
maintenance. The golf car leasing companies deal with all the battery
issues. But they need help with batteries just as much!

Possibilities are endless, there is plenty of opportunity, Bedini isn't to
blame, there are enough solutions ALREADY available to help humanity
in every way, shape and form including agricultural, psychological,
medical, financial, etc...

With Bedini's solutions, there are simply MORE possibilities and solutions
to go along with what we already have, just in a different specific niche.

UncleFester
09-13-2010, 08:23 AM
It would be the sexy-cool way to "solve" our phony energy crisis but
we have to get real!



I agree with everything you said except this line. The power your home uses creates enough pollution every hour to kill you and your family if you were sitting above the stack breathing it in. Most of our energy in this country comes from coal. Ironically I work at the local 100MW coal fired plant when work gets slow, so I see the amount of pollution these plants put out. The toxic substances don't just magically disappear after they go up the stack, and the truck I run to water down the fly ash pile has to be run 24/7 because the fly ash is piled up 200 feet high and over a half mile long.

China is having to build one of these same sized coal fired plants every week to keep up with demand. This my friend is madness, and is totally unsustainable. No amount of upgrades to homes to increase energy efficiency is going to stop the need to build more plants because the human population is still expanding.

This home I live in uses 243 watts continuous. Half of that comes from solar, and half from Vegetable oil running in the diesel generator. Local power is $20,000 if I even wanted it considering I would just be adding to the coal plant capacity required.

There is an energy crisis globally, and no government or government funded science lab is going to solve it. People like Bedini can solve it, and it's going to require many devices to solve different aspects of it. Vehicles, Houses, and mass transport just to name a few will require more and more fossil fuel, thereby creating more and more pollutants until it comes to a massive destructive scenario where the planet can no longer change these pollutants into less harmful forms. Fortunately we are simply at a point that we see the massive pollution levels in all cities in the form of smog, but it doesn't affect us enough to go to extraordinary means to solve it. But I am telling you that very soon it's going to get to that point, and thus it is not a sustainable way of life we are currently living.

People like you and me that are trying to reduce our impact is only a very small part of what needs to be done on a massive scale. I feel sorry for all the children who are going to have to deal with the junk we have spewed out that has made our lives so easy and will make life very difficult for them in the near future.

And yet there are people right now who have the answers and devices world wide that could reduce or eliminate the problems the next generation will ultimately have to deal with. I guess until these technologies come forward on a large scale we will simply continue to act like knuckle dragging cavemen who enjoy their nice lifestyles riding on the backs of dead dinosaurs.

Funny that this type of talk would come from a conservative independent thinker aye? = )

Tad

Aaron
09-13-2010, 10:13 AM
Ironically I work at the local 100MW coal fired plant when work gets slow.

China is having to build one of these same sized coal fired plants every week to keep up with demand. This my friend is madness, and is totally unsustainable. No amount of upgrades to homes to increase energy efficiency is going to stop the need to build more plants because the human population is still expanding.

This home I live in uses 243 watts continuous. Half of that comes from solar, and half from Vegetable oil running in the diesel generator. Local power is $20,000 if I even wanted it considering I would just be adding to the coal plant capacity required.

Uncle Fester,

Good to hear your perspective!

We are all hydro and windmill power around here. The closest coal plant
is many miles away somewhere in in Idaho or Montana I think - but point
is I still contribute to the local power company demand and we are
growing at a decent rate around here. Not spectacular thank goodness.

My partners cheaply and easily caused 20% more btu's to be released
than normally is released with coal. That is very significant at the large scale.
And of course that corresponds to a significant drop in emissions as well.
So there are some simple and inexpensive solutions currently available.

That and many other things together add up to a significant difference.
China and India as well are not the norm in expansion. I don't think there is
going to be any kind of explosive growth in this country until we find
a way to simply put people to work building things instead of sending it
out to China, etc... That doesn't look like it is going to happen anytime
soon.

You sound like you have a pretty tight setup!

It is possible for power companies to cut their overall losses from power
generation to delivery by 25%-50% and even more. I'm talking about mostly line losses.
That is highly significant.

One partner of mine has worked with his local PUD for probably 30
years - he was a lineman, engineer, etc... Anyway, it is amazing what
can be done on a big scale.

I'm partially with you on "no amount of upgrades".

Upgrading isn't where it is at. It is building the home right from the
get go. Such as stabilized earth brick homes that are almost 12" thick
with the right coating on both sides = that is a home that is approaching
R-100 insulative value with also radiant reflective properties.

50% of the average home's power consumption is in heating and cooling.
Transforming the building industry into something that is common sense
will cause homes to be built in any quantity which practically need no
heating or cooling system. The bricks are isothermic.

Doing this one change for all practical purposes is like building as many
new homes as you want and the usual need for each home is cut 50%.
That is because if heating and cooling are free by the intrinsic design of the
house, then there is no more capacity required by the power company
to make power to heat and cool a home. Of course this reduces the
continued need for gas, fuel oil, etc... and not just electric generation.

So power companies wouldn't even have to account for increase for
heating and cooling.

The other 50% is lighting, electronics, you name it.

Building the homes with solar tube lighting, solar water heaters,
fridges that interchange it's cold air during cold season with the
outside air, etc... just common sense things like this that have been
around for ages. It does not cost any more to do these things compared
to conventional means and in many cases, its cheaper.

With the SEB homes for example, they're so much more cheaper and
easier to build, superior, fireproof, etc..., and because they cost a
significant amount less compared to a stick built house, those savings can
allow for a home to be pretty much self sufficient for about the same
cost as a conventional home or less.

I really don't buy that we can't do these things now because we can.
Homes can be built so they don't draw anything from the grid and it doesn't
have to cost a fortune. So there could conceptually be a lot more homes
in this world without requiring a proportional amount of energy increase.
Obviously there will still be increases, more movie theaters, more
cars, more grocery stores, etc... that takes energy to do, but in concept
everything can be built self-sustainable.

Commercial buildings, etc... same thing. All the solutions are here and
are not magical.

For example, some of my family is looking at building a new home.
For $160-180k, it can be made out of the earth bricks and off the
grid with a couple thousands kWh average draw 24/7. And that is on
at least 5 acres.

Farmhand
09-13-2010, 11:03 AM
Hi all,

I have a question about using our own "one off" replications of John Bedini's devices. I say "one off" as I believe we are only permitted to make one of each of Johns patented devices for personal use.

Is it ok if we use our replications to rejuvinate batteries for monetary gain ?

I ask because i'm having some real success with ni-cads, gell cells and flooded lead acid batteries for myself, friends and family using solar power and Johns machines that I have built, they want to pay me but I wont take money for a few reasons, the main one being that I just don't feel right having not purchased a commercial unit or even a kit, though I have plans to buy a couple of his commercial units I am also having trouble getting the money together.

My intention is to start a small home based buisiness rejuvinating batteries for people and selling rejuvinated batteries (exchanges ect.) I would like to promote both radiant energy and Johns work as well, by telling people what fixed thier battery.

I'm in no real hurry as i'm very busy with other things, i've fixed or conditioned all my batteries and all but one of my devices sit idle waiting for sick batteries to treat.

I feel as though John has given me something precious and I am doing my best to spread the word, however I tend to build things for practicality not looks so my own devices are not that impressive to look at, though the bike wheel ssg does attract some curiosity.

Regards
Andrew

John_K
09-13-2010, 11:36 AM
Very good and thought provoking posts...:thinking:

I just got my winter electricity bill the other day - I used an average of 10kWh per day for the last month and after taxes and surcharges it cost me about US$0.25 per kWh. The winter gas bill (which provides heating and hot water) was another US$350. The heating is supplemented with a log fire that costs US$120 to buy enough wood for the winter.

The figures quoted on the bill for greenhouse gas emissions were not pretty. My consumption is considered "below average" compared to most. We all need to need to make the most of what we have already.

I came across a report the other day the shows a plan to convert Australia to a 100% renewable and zero carbon emissions powered country over the next decade. Sounds impossible? Not according to this report, which bases its plan on proven technology that is already commercially available. If you're interested you can d/l their report (200 pages) or synopsis (15 pages) from Beyond Zero Emissions (http://beyondzeroemissions.org/)
I'm not affiliated with them at all, I just came across it.

It gave me a lot more ideas on how to reduce my reliance on the grid and reducing my carbon footprint (which we'll all be taxed for soon).
It's pretty conventional stuff, but just really well thought out as well.

I'll keep building on a small scale for now, but the same principles apply:

1. Get as much free, renewable and zero emissions energy from the environment (solar, wind, hydro, wave, tidal, heat pump, radiant, etc.) that you can get and then store it somewhere so you can use it when you need it.

2. Then, always continue to research into new technology to improve efficiency and reduce total cost of ownership.

So far I have found that Bedini's work is one of the technologies that gets pretty close to following those principles and is one that I can easily research and build. I'm very happy with the Tesla Solar Power Amplifier (same as Ash's pic) that I bought. I'm testing a small off-the-grid setup using the TSPA with a 200W panel to charge up a 12V 130Ah battery which then drives a SS SG that charges up a 12V 650Ah bank, which then runs an inverter.

It's early days in testing yet and I'm still fine tuning, but this should supply me with >250 watts per hour, 24 hours per day when everything is running right. That's around 6kWh per day. Of course that's not counting on losses and days of low sunlight, but I'm also using dual battery banks so I can rest the batteries and as a backup.

The thing is that the sun doesn't always shine, which means if you're just using solar, your batteries aren't always charging. My Tesla Solar Power Amplifier starts charging as soon as it's daylight and charges all day until the sun goes down, whether the sun is out, or it's raining.
But it still doesn't charge 24 hours a day, so during the day it charges up a battery - slowly at first while it is getting light, full charge when the sun is on the panel, and then slowly as the sun goes down. Then the battery rests overnight, waiting to run the SS SG for 24 hours, starting in the morning.
This is how a lead-acid battery like to be charged and loaded if you want long life out of it. The batteries are lasting longer and longer with each cycle.

Am I happy with it and is it worth the money? Yes.

Sorry for the novel...

:cheers:

John K.

Mark
09-13-2010, 02:26 PM
Well Aaron I've already got you beat, I used 601 KWH last month and I used my air conditioner, have an electric stove and dryer. My 2000+ sq ft house has the best insulation package and windows I could get 12 years ago when I had it built. I have close to 100 light bulbs which most are led and the rest are cfl. But it is unrealistic to think that the average person is going to spend a large amount of money on new windows, insulation, lighting, solar and everything else you suggest.

A "free energy device" is far more feasable and not only would solve the energy crisis and help with pollution but just think about all the money, fuel, life and resources wasted on going to war over oil. Sure cutting down on consuption would be great if everyone did it. But releasing a device would be far more effective.

Do you really believe that if John shipped out all the solar charges turned up that he would be jailed or executed? I'm sorry but I just don't believe that. After something is released in volume with instructions on how to build it nothing could be done to stop it. And jailing or executing him would only bring more attention and validity to the whole thing. Just the opposite of what the MIB would want. Sorry but I'm still not going to buy that now is not the time.

And by the way when are we going to hear about this new device or charger coming out. I wanted to buy one of the solar charges but the last I heard they were all sold out. And if this new charger is better I'd rather wait for it. What else can you tell us about it.

Mark

UncleFester
09-13-2010, 07:21 PM
Upgrading isn't where it is at. It is building the home right from the
get go. Such as stabilized earth brick homes that are almost 12" thick
with the right coating on both sides = that is a home that is approaching
R-100 insulative value with also radiant reflective properties.

50% of the average home's power consumption is in heating and cooling.
Transforming the building industry into something that is common sense
will cause homes to be built in any quantity which practically need no
heating or cooling system. The bricks are isothermic.



That's the whole reason for us moving up here (Show Low, Arizona). We followed Charley (who worked with Bedini back in the 80's) who moved up here before us from Southern California. In California we lived ten miles from where Bedini started out (Irvine), which is where I grew up. Charley came up here after seeing the whole incident with the people who threatened Bedini. Just like Charley, my wife and I wanted to get out of the rat race of southern California and into a situation where we were independent on finances, energy, food, and water.

This area was idea because we have strawbale, papercrete and other highly efficient building methods being used on a moderate scale. Land is cheap (we purchased 30 acres for 1k an acre in cash. No mortgage helps alot too. We are surrounded by large forests and the forestry service lets us cut our own wood from dead oak and juniper and pine, so heating is close to free.

The first mistake we made was buying the property for cash and not leaving enough money left over for batteries, solar panels and inverters. We spent $4000 on all those things which was only about half of what we really needed. We purchased two 24 volt forklift batteries @ 1000AH each. They were reconditioned using a small single coil Bedini SSG, which took about 6 months to do both batteries. They are now sulfated again because they are very difficult to equalize considering they are so high in capacity. It can literally take a week of constant running of the 15KW diesel to equalize them and so it's just not practical to do it that way. In good condition those batteries run this house for a week with no charge, but they sulfate quickly and can lose 2/3's of their capacity.

The mobile home we purchased to live in while we planned out our papercrete earth sheltered home was poorly insulated so we went with polyurethane foam which helps alot, but when it's 20F outside in the winter (we are at 7000 feet) we still go through 4 to 5 cords of wood per year.

Still to this day power is our biggest problem even though Charley and I are putting together systems to solve this. I would love to try the Solar charge system from Bedini, but we just cannot afford it since my work had dried up in this economy. In the meantime I just hide the hairdryer from my wife and have her use the stove instead of the microwave = )

I recondition all the batteries for people in this area who are off grid, but this single coil SSG takes forever to do the T105's and L-16's.

Tad

SeaMonkey
09-13-2010, 08:09 PM
...but this single coil SSG takes forever to do the T105's and L-16's.

As a desulfator the SSG has limitations and flaws.

It is possible to costruct a dedicated desulfator
which is much more efficient and capable of
dealing with your high capacity batteries with
very little cost. A properly built desulfator will
also equalize your batteries without need for
using the standby generator to accomplish that.

The pulses must be made more powerful than
what the SSG produces. It is not difficult.

UncleFester
09-13-2010, 09:34 PM
As a desulfator the SSG has limitations and flaws.

It is possible to costruct a dedicated desulfator
which is much more efficient and capable of
dealing with your high capacity batteries with
very little cost. A properly built desulfator will
also equalize your batteries without need for
using the standby generator to accomplish that.

The pulses must be made more powerful than
what the SSG produces. It is not difficult.

Well I did talk to Peter about that and I built a larger capacitive unit that dumps a 3300uF cap charged to 120 volts into them, but I have not tested it very much yet. I was going to build an IGBT driven unit using one of my 1200V @ 200A IGBT's and put more capacitance behind it, with the ability to run it with a micro-controller using AtMega 128 and 169 currently because I like coding in C.

The solar amplifier is essentially just that. 10,000uF being charge to double the voltage and then being dumped into the battery so it looks very close to what I am already working on.

Tad

Aaron
09-13-2010, 09:49 PM
Well Aaron I've already got you beat, I used 601 KWH last month and I used my air conditioner, have an electric stove and dryer. My 2000+ sq ft house has the best insulation package and windows I could get 12 years ago when I had it built. I have close to 100 light bulbs which most are led and the rest are cfl. But it is unrealistic to think that the average person is going to spend a large amount of money on new windows, insulation, lighting, solar and everything else you suggest.

A "free energy device" is far more feasable and not only would solve the energy crisis and help with pollution but just think about all the money, fuel, life and resources wasted on going to war over oil. Sure cutting down on consuption would be great if everyone did it. But releasing a device would be far more effective.

Do you really believe that if John shipped out all the solar charges turned up that he would be jailed or executed? I'm sorry but I just don't believe that. After something is released in volume with instructions on how to build it nothing could be done to stop it. And jailing or executing him would only bring more attention and validity to the whole thing. Just the opposite of what the MIB would want. Sorry but I'm still not going to buy that now is not the time.

And by the way when are we going to hear about this new device or charger coming out. I wanted to buy one of the solar charges but the last I heard they were all sold out. And if this new charger is better I'd rather wait for it. What else can you tell us about it.

Mark

Hi Mark,

That's great! And shows that it CAN be done. The average person is not
going to do all these updates. I agree and that is why I said where it is
at is not in the upgrades but in simply building homes right to begin with.

My home was built in 1954. The structure is way beyond the standards
but not for efficiency (as it was built). The big downfall is poor insulation
in the walls and I'm not planning on staying here so it will stay that way.

There are plenty of things I could do to get the usage down to a fraction
of what it is now, which is already pretty low. The ROI would take too long
but it would have to be done for satisfaction instead of saving money
anytime soon. I am willing to do that but not on this house.

By the way, Coolerado is the way to cool a home. 90% less power than
a typical AC unit and it uses about one shower worth of water per day.
So probably about 85% less cost to cool than conventional AC. If I
needed a cooling system, I'd go with that because of the simplicity.

I'm certainly not against a "free energy machine" being released that
anyone can plug in and have all they want. If I had one scaled up that
could power my entire home, I'd plug it in on the spot.

But being practical in the moment, I do these other things that I do have
access to in the here and now.

Not everyone can do all the mods, but there are lower budget methods
to accomplish much of the same.

There are cheap coatings that can be bought to lay on a window to
act as a radiant reflective coating while still letting light through - similar
to the triple silver coating on my windows.

There are clear plastic sheets that can be nicely taped around the border
of a window to allow a new "pane". You heat the plastic with a hair
dryer and it stretches tight and you can't even see it. I did that one
one glass back door in an apartment I rented quite a while back. It is a
very cheap and easy fix to create another layer of dead air space for
insulation of the windows.

Insulating foam spray cans - cheap - DOE estimates there is an average
of 1 square foot worth of space where heat is lost or gained to and from
the outside. That is like having a 1 square foot hole on a wall to the
outside on every home.

So there really are quite a few low tech and low budget solutions for much
of the loss an average home experiences. And if money is an issue for
someone to even do basic weatherstripping for example and really seal all
the leaks, there are non-profits in every state that assists low income
home owners by providing the service of updating the weatherization
package of a home at no cost to them. People just have to look into
these kinds of things. Of course have to prove income is below a certain
level based on quantity of family members, etc... and if qualified,
free weatherization.

Maybe I'm just optimistic but my belief system tells me there is a solution
for everything, they just need to be implemented.

John is building chargers that give the benefits that people are paying for.

IF there was some free energy device that was put into the masses
hands, my response is that there are plenty of valid
free energy machines open sourced in this forum but most people
are not able to see it.

John gave the answers to the Tesla Switch and only one truly successful
replication?

Peter's rotary attraction motor is over 1.0 cop but most people don't know
what they're looking at. And even few used bifilar coils that are shorted
like in the Bob Teal patent - so many details like this are simply ignored.

Most of the "joule thief" circuits are over 1.0 cop but it is not even
recognized for what it is.

Veljko's mechanical oscillator is over 1.0 cop and it is only appreciated
by very few who get it.

I would have to say that it isn't up to John to give anyone some
overly fantastic free energy machine - it is up to people to help themselves
and apply what has been shared.

But the machine I think that would accomplish what you would like to
see - I'd like to see it too - is a motor/generator that runs on pure
reactive power - basically pumping out as much as you need while drawing
little to nothing from the source. Eric Dollard, Jim Murray and a few others
know the reality of this. That is one of the few real self runners that
gives you all you need. That requires a whole new skill set such as learning
Eric Dollard's worldview of electricity. That is beyond the ability of most
experimenters. And even studying his material - it would give the
principles and theories then it would still be up to someone to figure out
how to apply it as mentioned above.

I don't know if details have been released on the new charger but I'll
find out.

DavidE
09-13-2010, 10:01 PM
Aaron

There is no one particular magic circuit that "if" it gets released will
save the world and benefit all humanity. It sounds like a good idea
but it isn't even necessary.
-That is a crock of very smelly cheese my friend. Your statement virtually invalidates the purpose of both your book and this forum. And by the way, who put you in charge of what is good for humanity?

On the Magna Coaster thread the silence is deafening. Worldwide Free Energy, but not a single watt to power a clock or LED. If you want the veil to fall between the have's and have not's, do something about this. Or continue be another that huffs and puffs to spread the virus.

The point is - what - have some cop 15.0 device to power our home
so we can be completely vain and waste half of what that device
produces just because it is in that much of abundance? This is in fact
where most people are sitting right now - in the position to waste
most of what they are going to get from any energy source be it
"free" or not.
-I thought you couldn't create or destroy energy. Hmmm. Or did you mean engaging unnecessary transformation of forces? Listen the extraterrestrials have plenty, they won't miss a few jillion terra watts.

:beamup:







I normally like and support your perspectives - clearly on this thread I see evidence that you have been dipping into the sacramental wine.


Now please make up your mind -

Does your book support a worthy cause, one worth more than exploring the lint in humanities Quantum navel?

Is the forum doing important work, or is it just a well moderated circle jerk?


What this smacks of is when people live in the illusion of control - they invest in keeping others out of focus and in the dark. Kind of like many notables here - they poke up their heads - make claims like they are on board - then disappear like they have achieved their guilt complex therapy, and wander off.

So are you really... Friend or Foe? :thinking:
<holding breath for response>

Aaron
09-13-2010, 10:04 PM
As a desulfator the SSG has limitations and flaws.

It is possible to costruct a dedicated desulfator
which is much more efficient and capable of
dealing with your high capacity batteries with
very little cost. A properly built desulfator will
also equalize your batteries without need for
using the standby generator to accomplish that.

The pulses must be made more powerful than
what the SSG produces. It is not difficult.

And where is all your work posted so that you can show how
Bedini's circuits are flawed?

It is common sense that you build it to scale.

John's 10 coilers had no problem charging a large bank
of monster batteries that came from cell phone towers.

And there is no "desulphator" that will accomplish what
the radiant circuits do - they are NOT a "desulphator" even though
they do that.

Your posts are starting to look suspicious. You claim alum is not
water soluble and therefore the alum/water mix cannot work in
a battery when alum IS water soluable, etc... You are making some
completely outright false and misleading statements. What's up?

Aaron
09-13-2010, 10:19 PM
Aaron


-That is a crock of very smelly cheese my friend. Your statement virtually invalidates the purpose of both your book and this forum. And by the way, who put you in charge of what is good for humanity?

On the Magna Coaster thread the silence is deafening. Worldwide Free Energy, but not a single watt to power a clock or LED. If you want the veil to fall between the have's and have not's, do something about this. Or continue be another that huffs and puffs to spread the virus.


-I thought you couldn't create or destroy energy. Hmmm. Or did you mean engaging unnecessary transformation of forces? Listen the extraterrestrials have plenty, they won't miss a few jillion terra watts.

:beamup:







I normally like and support your perspectives - clearly on this thread I see evidence that you have been dipping into the sacramental wine.


Now please make up your mind -

Does your book support a worthy cause, one worth more than exploring the lint in humanities Quantum navel?

Is the forum doing important work, or is it just a well moderated circle jerk?


What this smacks of is when people live in the illusion of control - they invest in keeping others out of focus and in the dark. Kind of like many notables here - they poke up their heads - make claims like they are on board - then disappear like they have achieved their guilt complex therapy, and wander off.

So are you really... Friend or Foe? :thinking:
<holding breath for response>

You shouldn't get so high on yourself David.

I'm entitled to my beliefs and you are NOBODY to tell me otherwise
or to judge what I believe, period.

Magnacoster appears to be a fraud and always has. Why don't you
try to replicate it and post your results and perhaps you can break the
"silence".

Maybe you should just go here:
NEW FREE ENERGY FUELLES GENERATOR 5 Kwt AVIG AVIG - Medical Equipment (http://exclusiv-store.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=104)
click the ADD TO CART button and get yourself a free energy
machine there and report back to all of us your results and maybe
you can even reverse engineer it and share the plans - then you can
be a part of the solution in helping humanity.

Who put me in charge of what is good for humanity? Don't be a hypocrite,
for you to claim that humanity needs it in order to be saved is
claiming to know what is good for humanity! That is hypocritical!
Again, I'm entitled to my beliefs and if I think there are enough solutions
to solve all the problems, that is what I'm going to state.

This forum was my idea and it is a priceless resource.
What have you contributed to the free energy movement?

If you thought energy can't be created or destroyed, that sounds like
a personal problem to me. I don't believe in such fairy tales.

And by the way, there are free energy devices explained in this forum
and if you missed them, you are able UNABLE to comprehend or appreciate what
HAS ALREADY BEEN SHARED.

I don't care for your sarcasm and condescending remarks - and you
apparently aren't even qualified to know what you're looking at. You
have no right to judge my opinion or myself or to imply anything negative
about my motives. You simply don't know me and need to keep your
uninformed delusional opinions to yourself.

Farmhand
09-13-2010, 10:46 PM
Hi all, I would just like to give my opinion.

Nothing is really free unless you can do it yourself, if you have a free energy machine and you don't understand it, when it breaks down you will have to pay someone to fix it for you, therefore you don't have free energy. Unless a free energy device is very simple and I mean very simple many people will still need to rely on others to maintain it or teach them how to fix it or even use it. In that regard a solar panel is not a free energy device that will make "you" free therefore the tesla solar amplifier as marvelous as it is has it's limits.

Anyway if the world were to be suddenly provided with limitless free electricity the population explosion would kill us all.

Thats my opinion.

Regards
Andrew

Aaron
09-13-2010, 11:28 PM
Having free energy for the world with the level of enlightenment of the
average person, it would just correspond to a proportional increase in
how wasteful we already are as a society - even more so since there
would be no end to it.

Everything that I do with this forum, my books, my projects, etc...
is for getting the information out there in whatever way I can.

But that doesn't automatically mean I'm going to put the responsibility
of "saving the world" off on some free energy machine. Seeing that there
is no readily available all power free energy machine that anyone can
just build and use or buy, it is common sense that viable solutions that
ARE available here and now need to be recognized and used.

It is a "cop out" to say a free energy device is what we need to solve
the worlds problems because it takes the responsibility away from "ME"
the individual.

There are plenty of viable solutions that have been around for ages.
They might not be as exciting as a self running generator that can power
a home but they exist. Even if there is one, it would probably cost more
than it would cost to get a home off the grid with solar, wind, etc...
anyway. Even if it existed, IT WILL STILL COST MONEY TO BUILD THEM
and they're not going to be given away for free!

I'm not going to pass the buck off on a device that isn't readily available
and pretend that there aren't other solutions available - I'm not committed
to self deception.

I'm always moving in the direction of learning more and more about
available technologies and ones that are possible, theoretically,
mechanically, etc...

Even though there could be some devastating effects of having free
energy for the whole planet - because of who we are as a society
at the time being - but I would like to see nothing more than the
implosion of the current energy cartel in oil/gas/etc... and decentralize
it so that everyone has their own local power station.

The upsets would be growing pains and will be inevitable. Even though
mankind is not even mature enough to handle it, I would NOT want it
stopped if it was going to be released because it would be a welcome
solution - but isn't the end all - be all - or only solution.

@DavidE -

Go read my last few posts here -
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6270-ultimate-secret-free-energy-split-postive-negative.html

With any common sense you can see that I have done nothing but
work at getting people to see that we can and do have free energy. And your
little "virus" concept doesn't apply to me but actually is representative
of yourself since you are trying to discount me, who is actually
spreading the truth.

So should we turn the tables and point the finger at you for
questioning my motives? :thinking:

If you can't comprehend my posts in that thread linked to above, then
you are part of the problem and not the solution for pointing the finger
at me.

SkyWatcher
09-13-2010, 11:49 PM
Hi folks, I usually step in when i see focus straying a bit. Keep in mind folks, most if not all issues in this world that lead to the good of all or in this case the basic needs of all being met at a bare minimum are in my opinion fulfilled due to the systems we follow. We have all sorts of distractions created to try and divide us, so that we do not unite as one humanity and end these systems of control that prevent the complete self sufficiency of each individual. This is an age old formula for control and power as I'm sure some are aware, so let's unify our energies in positive creation efforts and try not to fall for the divide and conquer, age old methods. Has anyone been in a toy store lately, 100 different versions of the game monopoly, that says it all. Now let's try and create PARADISE.
peace love light
Tyson:sun: :superman: :beamup: :rainbow: :angel:

SeaMonkey
09-14-2010, 01:15 AM
And where is all your work posted so that you can show how
Bedini's circuits are flawed?

It is common sense that you build it to scale.

John's 10 coilers had no problem charging a large bank
of monster batteries that came from cell phone towers.

And there is no "desulphator" that will accomplish what
the radiant circuits do - they are NOT a "desulphator" even though
they do that.

Your posts are starting to look suspicious. You claim alum is not
water soluble and therefore the alum/water mix cannot work in
a battery when alum IS water soluable, etc... You are making some
completely outright false and misleading statements. What's up?

The DC resistance of the coils in many of
Bedini's "devices" is too great. Much power
is lost within the coils themselves.

While they may indeed charge batteries,
the impedance mis-match prevents efficient
transfer of energy. Much power is lost.

To efficiently desulfate a lead acid battery
the DC resistance of the coil must be as
small as possible in order to generate the
highest intensity "radiant" spike.

Yes, it is possible to create a very high intensity
"radiant" spike with only a relatively few turns
of heavy wire.

Alum is indeed water soluble. What is not
water soluble is the Sodium Aluminosilicate.

Sodium Aluminosilicate is not an "Alum."

Alums are sulfates.

Someone needs to do some "research?"

ashtweth
09-14-2010, 02:25 AM
Hi Mark,

That's great! And shows that it CAN be done. The average person is not
going to do all these updates. I agree and that is why I said where it is
at is not in the upgrades but in simply building homes right to begin with.

My home was built in 1954. The structure is way beyond the standards
but not for efficiency (as it was built). The big downfall is poor insulation
in the walls and I'm not planning on staying here so it will stay that way.

There are plenty of things I could do to get the usage down to a fraction
of what it is now, which is already pretty low. The ROI would take too long
but it would have to be done for satisfaction instead of saving money
anytime soon. I am willing to do that but not on this house.

By the way, Coolerado is the way to cool a home. 90% less power than
a typical AC unit and it uses about one shower worth of water per day.
So probably about 85% less cost to cool than conventional AC. If I
needed a cooling system, I'd go with that because of the simplicity.

I'm certainly not against a "free energy machine" being released that
anyone can plug in and have all they want. If I had one scaled up that
could power my entire home, I'd plug it in on the spot.

But being practical in the moment, I do these other things that I do have
access to in the here and now.

Not everyone can do all the mods, but there are lower budget methods
to accomplish much of the same.

There are cheap coatings that can be bought to lay on a window to
act as a radiant reflective coating while still letting light through - similar
to the triple silver coating on my windows.

There are clear plastic sheets that can be nicely taped around the border
of a window to allow a new "pane". You heat the plastic with a hair
dryer and it stretches tight and you can't even see it. I did that one
one glass back door in an apartment I rented quite a while back. It is a
very cheap and easy fix to create another layer of dead air space for
insulation of the windows.

Insulating foam spray cans - cheap - DOE estimates there is an average
of 1 square foot worth of space where heat is lost or gained to and from
the outside. That is like having a 1 square foot hole on a wall to the
outside on every home.

So there really are quite a few low tech and low budget solutions for much
of the loss an average home experiences. And if money is an issue for
someone to even do basic weatherstripping for example and really seal all
the leaks, there are non-profits in every state that assists low income
home owners by providing the service of updating the weatherization
package of a home at no cost to them. People just have to look into
these kinds of things. Of course have to prove income is below a certain
level based on quantity of family members, etc... and if qualified,
free weatherization.

Maybe I'm just optimistic but my belief system tells me there is a solution
for everything, they just need to be implemented.

John is building chargers that give the benefits that people are paying for.

IF there was some free energy device that was put into the masses
hands, my response is that there are plenty of valid
free energy machines open sourced in this forum but most people
are not able to see it.

John gave the answers to the Tesla Switch and only one truly successful
replication?

Peter's rotary attraction motor is over 1.0 cop but most people don't know
what they're looking at. And even few used bifilar coils that are shorted
like in the Bob Teal patent - so many details like this are simply ignored.

Most of the "joule thief" circuits are over 1.0 cop but it is not even
recognized for what it is.

Veljko's mechanical oscillator is over 1.0 cop and it is only appreciated
by very few who get it.

I would have to say that it isn't up to John to give anyone some
overly fantastic free energy machine - it is up to people to help themselves
and apply what has been shared.

But the machine I think that would accomplish what you would like to
see - I'd like to see it too - is a motor/generator that runs on pure
reactive power - basically pumping out as much as you need while drawing
little to nothing from the source. Eric Dollard, Jim Murray and a few others
know the reality of this. That is one of the few real self runners that
gives you all you need. That requires a whole new skill set such as learning
Eric Dollard's worldview of electricity. That is beyond the ability of most
experimenters. And even studying his material - it would give the
principles and theories then it would still be up to someone to figure out
how to apply it as mentioned above.

I don't know if details have been released on the new charger but I'll
find out.

Here ya go Mark for that air con bill my friend please take a look.
Pool/Aircon power saver-80% saving (http://energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6388-pool-aircon-power-saver-80-saving.html)

Aaron
09-14-2010, 04:06 AM
the impedance mis-match prevents efficient
transfer of energy.

There is a reason for a "1:1" turn ratio on the Bedini circuits.

baroutologos
09-14-2010, 08:14 AM
And where is all your work posted so that you can show how
Bedini's circuits are flawed?

It is common sense that you build it to scale.

John's 10 coilers had no problem charging a large bank
of monster batteries that came from cell phone towers.

And there is no "desulphator" that will accomplish what
the radiant circuits do - they are NOT a "desulphator" even though
they do that.

Your posts are starting to look suspicious. You claim alum is not
water soluble and therefore the alum/water mix cannot work in
a battery when alum IS water soluable, etc... You are making some
completely outright false and misleading statements. What's up?

The big flaw of Bedini circuits is that they claim OU in batteries and you get NONE.
As a desulphator SSG sux also. tried and know.
The alum stuff, is a nightmare. I have converted a Bosch lead acid battery to alum and from 6Ah capacity droped to 0.5Ah. Alum with "radiant charge" does not shows any merit.
Not to mention the battery could not keep charges up. It took way to long actual time hooked on an improvised desulphator to be restored, but not as it were before.

What about Bedini circuits anyway?

John_K
09-14-2010, 10:46 AM
The big flaw of Bedini circuits is that they claim OU in batteries and you get NONE.
As a desulphator SSG sux also. tried and know.
The alum stuff, is a nightmare. I have converted a Bosch lead acid battery to alum and from 6Ah capacity droped to 0.5Ah. Alum with "radiant charge" does not shows any merit.
Not to mention the battery could not keep charges up. It took way to long actual time hooked on an improvised desulphator to be restored, but not as it were before.

What about Bedini circuits anyway?

baroutologos,

All I can say is that you did not build them right. Every Bedini circuit I have built has shown that the battery's load time is increased after every cycle. The only exception is when I didn't build it right, or it wasn't tuned optimally. Every charger I have bought from Renaissance Charge has done what they claim it will do. They all extend the life of your batteries.

As a "desulfator", or rejuvenator I have recovered a lot of batteries of all different types of chemistry very successfully. I've done everything from AAA to large car and deep cycle batteries, lead-acid, gel-cell, silver calcium, Li-On, NiCd, NiMh. As long as the battery isn't physically defective the Bedini circuits will restore it.

The trick is building the circuit for what the batteries want as the batteries are part of the circuit. Then you have to make sure it is tuned for what you want it to do. Lastly, you need to use good components including batteries. A 12V car battery that has been sitting around for years and comes in showing a couple of volts is going to take a long time to recover - maybe 30 - 40 cycles if it's really bad. It takes time to see the results.

There are many other tricks that show some very interesting things that can't be explained in the normal EE sense with these circuits. When you understand the concepts and principles that John Bedini has already shown us, you can start to experiment with ways that you can combine different circuits to achieve different applications.

For example, you might want to use the high voltage, low current, high frequency outputs of the SG circuit to charge a battery directly or to charge up a capacitor. On the other hand you might want the low voltage, high current, low frequency output of a charged capacitor and dump that energy into a battery or a another capacitor once every second. There are many other different possibilities you can use these circuits for.

The point being, that there are different circuits for different applications. Many other people have posted their test results in the public forum for people to see for themselves what the Bedini circuits can do. When so many other people have been successful and you say that it does not work then tell us a bit about your setup and we might be able to help you improve it. You can also tell us what you are trying to achieve and I'm sure there would be many people on these forums that would be happy to help you.

:cheers:

John K.

DavidE
09-14-2010, 02:33 PM
Aaron

Since my last post was deleted by moderation I will try again.


With any common sense you can see that I have done nothing but
work at getting people to see that we can and do have free energy. And your
little "virus" concept doesn't apply to me but actually is representative
of yourself since you are trying to discount me, who is actually
spreading the truth.
-What truth would that be? That over unity is all around us? I am looking for the beef. Not the shadow of where it is located. If you have fundamental knowledge, demonstrate it in application. Authoring a thread or posting words on a forum is not necessarily truth. Truth must have immutable foundational values. You wouldn't think powering an LED/CLOCK would be so difficult would you?

Forget about humanity. Forget about fame and fortune. Lay something out that ALL CAN SEE and understand. Otherwise, you yourself contribute to the sickness. A boxing match with a mythical ghost.

So should we turn the tables and point the finger at you for
questioning my motives?
-I am questioning all elements of the virus, from first infection to death. I am asking that you or anyone inoculate everyone with an immutable truth.

If you can't comprehend my posts in that thread linked to above, then you are part of the problem and not the solution for pointing the finger
at me.
-I am in the throes of the worst stage of the virus. I am vomiting circuit after circuit, only to end up with less of everything. My plastic bending fatigue is near a point of separation.

You can delete my posts, call me stupid, provide link after link of what you claim as "proofs." All I can say is - (1) Self Powered LED or CLOCK - either you can boil down all of your insights into this one proof, or you can't. There is no shame in admitting your limits.

But please let me know if you won't or can't. I will then go back to my underground bunker... and patiently wait for the pole shift.

Farmhand
09-14-2010, 04:32 PM
How on earth would you get an LED to power itself. A capacitor, a light sensitive switch and some wire would be needed. I haven't tried it but I have read that an led can output power. If that is true it could gather power part time and use it part time.

Though if anything other than the led is used why not just use a solar cell and a battery then it could go 24/7 for a while at least.

It astounds me how more people don't take advantage of the free energy around them, a rainwater tank is a free energy device if it is 10 feet off the ground, the rain falls on the roof runs into the tank where it retains potential to do work for free. However trying to make the water do more work than the potential it retains is more bother than it is worth. Most people just use the ratained potential to push the water through a pipe and out the tap, but a micro hydro could be placed in line to generate electricity. Would that be OU enough for you guys.

Nature is where the real energy is and some circuits can capture it, but is it worth the bother try to squeeze OU from free energy?

While your thinking outside the box the solution may be inside the box.

Andrew

baroutologos
09-14-2010, 04:40 PM
baroutologos,

All I can say is that you did not build them right. Every Bedini circuit I have built has shown that the battery's load time is increased after every cycle. The only exception is when I didn't build it right, or it wasn't tuned optimally. Every charger I have bought from Renaissance Charge has done what they claim it will do. They all extend the life of your batteries.

As a "desulfator", or rejuvenator I have recovered a lot of batteries of all different types of chemistry very successfully. I've done everything from AAA to large car and deep cycle batteries, lead-acid, gel-cell, silver calcium, Li-On, NiCd, NiMh. As long as the battery isn't physically defective the Bedini circuits will restore it.

The trick is building the circuit for what the batteries want as the batteries are part of the circuit. Then you have to make sure it is tuned for what you want it to do. Lastly, you need to use good components including batteries. A 12V car battery that has been sitting around for years and comes in showing a couple of volts is going to take a long time to recover - maybe 30 - 40 cycles if it's really bad. It takes time to see the results.

There are many other tricks that show some very interesting things that can't be explained in the normal EE sense with these circuits. When you understand the concepts and principles that John Bedini has already shown us, you can start to experiment with ways that you can combine different circuits to achieve different applications.

For example, you might want to use the high voltage, low current, high frequency outputs of the SG circuit to charge a battery directly or to charge up a capacitor. On the other hand you might want the low voltage, high current, low frequency output of a charged capacitor and dump that energy into a battery or a another capacitor once every second. There are many other different possibilities you can use these circuits for.

The point being, that there are different circuits for different applications. Many other people have posted their test results in the public forum for people to see for themselves what the Bedini circuits can do. When so many other people have been successful and you say that it does not work then tell us a bit about your setup and we might be able to help you improve it. You can also tell us what you are trying to achieve and I'm sure there would be many people on these forums that would be happy to help you.

:cheers:

John K.


i bet i build them better than Bedini himself. Its just no magic there.

Aaron
09-14-2010, 08:23 PM
-What truth would that be? That over unity is all around us? I am looking for the beef.


Not the shadow of where it is located. If you have fundamental knowledge, demonstrate it in application. Authoring a thread or posting words on a forum is not necessarily truth. Truth must have immutable foundational values. You wouldn't think powering an LED/CLOCK would be so difficult would you?

Forget about humanity. Forget about fame and fortune. Lay something out that ALL CAN SEE and understand. Otherwise, you yourself contribute to the sickness. A boxing match with a mythical ghost.


-I am questioning all elements of the virus, from first infection to death. I am asking that you or anyone inoculate everyone with an immutable truth.


-I am in the throes of the worst stage of the virus. I am vomiting circuit after circuit, only to end up with less of everything. My plastic bending fatigue is near a point of separation.

You can delete my posts, call me stupid, provide link after link of what you claim as "proofs." All I can say is - (1) Self Powered LED or CLOCK - either you can boil down all of your insights into this one proof, or you can't. There is no shame in admitting your limits.

But please let me know if you won't or can't. I will then go back to my underground bunker... and patiently wait for the pole shift.

I could care less about powering an led clock. If I want to know what
time it is, I'll look outside. I haven't worn a watch regularly since 1994.

Let's take this concept of yours and see if there is any common sense
behind it. There isn't but I'm going to briefly explore it. How many
Velijko oscillators did you build, how many rotary attraction motors did
you build, how many joule thief circuits did you build, etc...

Where's the beef? That's part of it. All those are valid over 1.0 cop
systems posted right here and you have the audacity to complain?

Would you like some smelly cheese to go with that whine?

Your post sounds more like an audition for a soap opera than an attempt
to have any meaningful communication.

You accuse me of being disinformation in one way or another. Here is
where the "real you" is revealed. Whether or not I show it is possible
or I show schematics is irrelevant. The ANSWER to what my motives are
self evidently displayed in my work and you have no room to talk
at all.

Once the answer is self evident you then continue to whine and say
you're not interested in the ideas but want the beef.

However, demonstrating the possibility or posting schematics, which I've
done both, is NOT a requirement to prove my intentions and I really don't
have to prove anything to anyone, especially someone such as yourself.

You haven't done any of my Gray circuit tests to see that at a certain
scale, having x joules of charge in the caps, discharging them with
the method into an electromagnetic coil can launch a magnet higher
than the math says that many joules can launch an object of a certain
weight to a certain height against gravity. You choose to gripe.

There are so many over 1.0 cop systems in this forum but you obviously
aren't qualified for this field because you can't even recognize them for
what they are.

Recently Peter and I released some vids and one is a DePalma lecture.
It isn't a secret how his machine works and it is COP 10.0. It is expensive
to build but what is stopping you? A bad attitude?

So once the intention is more than obvious, it answers your question,
then you continue to whine about wanting beef and not the theories.

You are an inconsistent individual. Getting an answer to what you ask
isn't good enough - actually it is but it is obvious in your make-up that
you are wholly and completely compelled to find something to gripe about
and it really has nothing to do with me.

MJN's oscillator has been running for 3 months nonstop powering leds.
He posted a schematic. You choose to gripe and ignore there are solutions
all around you. That is typical for a type of individual that wants to take
no responsibility for their own life or the world they live in. Where is your
replication attempt? Self powered light circuit - any interest in building
one? No? I didn't think so - you choose to complain about everything.

Good luck to you in your bunker and leave me alone and keep your
insults and character bashing to yourself. It is that kind of
attitude that causes people with many things to share to hold back and
not give them out. You are part of the problem and NOT part of the
solution and you think you have room to complain. So sad!

In the end when certain people have the lights on, you'll be sitting in
the dark, in more ways than one.

Matthew 7:6

Aaron
09-14-2010, 08:26 PM
i bet i build them better than Bedini himself. Its just no magic there.

You have caused trouble around here for quite some time just because
you lack the skills to get anything to work right. I hope you find success
in some other field that suits you.

And insulting a man that has forgot more over the past couple years than
you probably learned in your entire life is uncalled for.

Why not just leave since there is obviously nothing in this forum that
resonates with you. If you instigate any more trouble, you'll be removed.

SeaMonkey
09-14-2010, 08:44 PM
The big flaw of Bedini circuits is that they claim OU in batteries and you get NONE.
As a desulphator SSG sux also. tried and know.
The alum stuff, is a nightmare. I have converted a Bosch lead acid battery to alum and from 6Ah capacity droped to 0.5Ah. Alum with "radiant charge" does not shows any merit.
Not to mention the battery could not keep charges up. It took way to long actual time hooked on an improvised desulphator to be restored, but not as it were before.

What about Bedini circuits anyway?


The "Alum Conversion" is a dis-info hoax.

Alum may be added to the acid electrolyte
of the lead acid battery in small quantity
with beneficial result.

The Sulfuric Acid must not be drained from
the battery. It must not be replaced by
any other chemical.

Desulfation will restore the strength of the
acid as the battery rejuvenates. The only
purpose for the added Alum is to make the
very weak electrolyte in a "dead" battery
conductive to charging current flow so that
desulfation and charging may begin.

The Alum, which puts sulfate ion into the very
weak acid of the dead battery, will assure that
lead sulfate does not go into solution. Lead
sulfate is insoluble in normal strength electrolyte
but as the battery discharges, and the acid gets
weaker, some lead sulfate will dissolve.

During re-charge, this dissolved lead sulfate can
result in lead "whiskers" or "dendrites" being formed
onto the negative plates by "plating action."

Those dendrites will eventually reach to the nearest
positive plates and form "short circuits."

By adding Alum (or another soluble sulfate) to the
acid of a lead acid battery it is possible to minimize
the formation of "whiskers" or "dendrites" and thus
prolong the life of the battery by many years.

I agree with your assessment of the SSG as a
desulfation device. There are better options.


There is a reason for a "1:1" turn ratio on the Bedini circuits.

A 1:1 Turns Ratio will not correct an
impedance mis-match which is caused
by excessive numbers of turns and
excessive DC resistance.

Very large coils are not able to transfer
energy efficiently to a low impedance
"load." The Lead-Acid Battery is a Very
Low Impedance Load.

Aaron
09-14-2010, 08:54 PM
The "Alum Conversion" is a dis-info hoax.

A 1:1 Turns Ratio will not correct an
impedance mis-match which is caused
by excessive numbers of turns and
excessive DC resistance.

Very large coils are not able to transfer
energy efficiently to a low impedance
"load." The Lead-Acid Battery is a Very
Low Impedance Load.

You obviously have never done an alum battery test.

And you choose to ignore the point of 1:1 - that ratio
is balanced to itself in regards to the input output.
They ARE matched to each other.

Then for WHATEVER coil you have, you can then
use it optimally for batteries that are matched to it.
That much is common sense.

SeaMonkey
09-15-2010, 01:03 AM
You obviously have never done an alum battery test.

And you choose to ignore the point of 1:1 - that ratio
is balanced to itself in regards to the input output.
They ARE matched to each other.

Then for WHATEVER coil you have, you can then
use it optimally for batteries that are matched to it.
That much is common sense.

When it comes to lead acid batteries I have bench
tested every possible "panacea."

Alum as a "replacement" for Sulfuric Acid, rather than
an adjunct, is indeed a hoax.

While a 1:1 Turns Ratio assures that the windings are
"matched" to each other, they will only transfer
power efficiently to a "load" which has the same or
higher impedance.

When working into a low impedance from a power
source that has a high impedance, a transformer
may be used as an impedance matching device.

The transformer would operate as a "step-down"
transformer to "transform" the power context of
the high impedance source (high voltage/low current)
to a power context which is useful for the low
impedance load (low voltage/high current.)

Think "8 Ohm Loudspeakers" and the need for an
impedance matching "Output Transformer" from
the days of vacuum tube amplifiers.

A properly matched set of impedances (source and
load) will assure that maximum power passes from
the source to the load. As in the Power Distribution
Grid and the plethora of tiny transformers that are
used in the home for low voltage devices.

John_K
09-15-2010, 02:38 AM
When it comes to lead acid batteries I have bench
tested every possible "panacea."

Alum as a "replacement" for Sulfuric Acid, rather than
an adjunct, is indeed a hoax.

While a 1:1 Turns Ratio assures that the windings are
"matched" to each other, they will only transfer
power efficiently to a "load" which has the same or
higher impedance.

When working into a low impedance from a power
source that has a high impedance, a transformer
may be used as an impedance matching device.

The transformer would operate as a "step-down"
transformer to "transform" the power context of
the high impedance source (high voltage/low current)
to a power context which is useful for the low
impedance load (low voltage/high current.)

Think "8 Ohm Loudspeakers" and the need for an
impedance matching "Output Transformer" from
the days of vacuum tube amplifiers.

A properly matched set of impedances (source and
load) will assure that maximum power passes from
the source to the load. As in the Power Distribution
Grid and the plethora of tiny transformers that are
used in the home for low voltage devices.

Hi Seamonkey,

For once, I have to agree with you. (Rare I know)

This basic theory and understood easily by most who have researched impedance matching.

It has been well discussed amongst various forums that it is advantageous to match the impedance of the SSG coil to the impedance of the source battery, for most efficient energy transfer. This is where multi-coil SSGs will perform better with a large source battery that has relatively low impedance. Once you calculate the total impedance of the parallel windings of the coil/s and match that (without going under it) to the source battery.

However, I don't think it is well understood, even by those that have built an SSG, that the SSG "sees" the charge battery as a high impedance (or in other words the battery "sees" the SSG as a "lower" impedance). Due to the "impedance mismatch" the battery charges by lowering it's impedance to try and "match" the impedance of the SSG coil.

The SSG is an "impedance matching oscillator" circuit in this sense. Using a bulb in the base resistor circuit also acts as a "servo" to keep the SSG in tune as the charge battery's impedance is lowered.

Hope this makes sense...

:cheers:

John K.

SeaMonkey
09-15-2010, 04:13 AM
...
It has been well discussed amongst various forums that it is advantageous to match the impedance of the SSG coil to the impedance of the source battery, for most efficient energy transfer. This is where multi-coil SSGs will perform better with a large source battery that has relatively low impedance. Once you calculate the total impedance of the parallel windings of the coil/s and match that (without going under it) to the source battery.
...

:cheers:

John K.

Excellent! This is an example of very productive
discussion which will bear "fruit."

As a practical matter, the DC resistance of any
coil or group of parallel connected coils which are
being used to charge/desulfate a battery should
be as low as possible: less than 0.3 Ohms is a very
good target.

The lowest possible DC resistance will result in a
coil with the highest possible Quality ("Q".)

Generally, coils made with less than 100 turns of
sufficiently large wire will do the job.

Aaron
09-15-2010, 04:13 AM
While a 1:1 Turns Ratio assures that the windings are
"matched" to each other, they will only transfer
power efficiently to a "load" which has the same or
higher impedance.

I don't think I posted anything that requires reading between the lines.
It was pretty straightforward.

And you choose to ignore the point of 1:1 - that ratio
is balanced to itself in regards to the input output.
They ARE matched to each other.

Then for WHATEVER coil you have, you can then
use it optimally for batteries that are matched to it.
That much is common sense.

You're repeating what I said as if I didn't say it.

Anyone can learn about impedance matching by blowing a fan out a window
in their home and opening a window in another room and seeing
what the room to the door does in relation to the opening of the window
for the input air.

And you said you bench test everything but you did not answer if you
have built an alum/water battery. Did you or did you not build an alum
water battery? Apparently you have not because "it would be a waste
of time" according to what your preconceived belief system is.

And if someone is rejuvenating an old battery and pours out the electrolyte
to replace it with alum water for a test, there isn't much sulfuric
acid left in the water anyway compared to a new battery.

SeaMonkey
09-15-2010, 04:46 AM
I don't think I posted anything that requires reading between the lines.
It was pretty straightforward.



You're repeating what I said as if I didn't say it.

Anyone can learn about impedance matching by blowing a fan out a window
in their home and opening a window in another room and seeing
what the room to the door does in relation to the opening of the window
for the input air.

And you said you bench test everything but you did not answer if you
have built an alum/water battery. Did you or did you not build an alum
water battery? Apparently you have not because "it would be a waste
of time" according to what your preconceived belief system is.

And if someone is rejuvenating an old battery and pours out the electrolyte
to replace it with alum water for a test, there isn't much sulfuric
acid left in the water anyway compared to a new battery.



Bedini structured coils have an unnecessarily
great DC resistance which is undesirable for
working into low impedance loads. Excessive
resistance in any coil will needlessly dissipate
power as a "loss." Particularly when the coil
is providing power to a Low Impedance which
will demand Maximum Current flow.

A 1:1 Turns Ratio for a coil set which has larger
than ideal DC resistance will not resolve the
impedance mis-match.

Only when the coils themselves have sufficiently
low impedance (as close to 0 Ohms as is practicable)
will they satisfy the Efficient Power Transfer
requirement of having an Impedance Less Than
That of the Load being Powered.

The "1:1 Turns Ratio" without amplifying data is
meaningless. It is imperative to know the
electrical characteristics of the windings
themselves. High Impedance 1:1 is still High
Impedance.

I assure you the "Alum" experiment has been
evaluated and it is a hoax. Pouring out the
liquid electrolyte, in whatever condition, to
replace it with a Potassium/Aluminum Sulfate
Double Salt Solution has no benefit whatever.

However, adding a soluble Sulfate to the
existing electrolyte in a lead acid battery
which is capable of being rejuvenated does
have potentially beneficial effect. It will
work with the existing Sulfuric Acid to reduce
the possibility of dendrite formation.


Before anything is done to a lead acid battery
which has been electrically "drained" such that
it is "completely dead," it should first be attached
to an effective desulfation device. Patiently
desulfating the battery over a period of some
time will, without fail, restore it to useful condition.
Providing (Caveat) that the battery is not physically
damaged internally and is only "sulfated" from neglect.

There is no need to resort to any "Snake Oil" procedure
using an "Alum" which is far less effective than the
intended electrolyte for the battery.

"Alum" has no "magic" powers.

baroutologos
09-15-2010, 06:26 AM
You have caused trouble around here for quite some time just because
you lack the skills to get anything to work right. I hope you find success
in some other field that suits you.

And insulting a man that has forgot more over the past couple years than
you probably learned in your entire life is uncalled for.

Why not just leave since there is obviously nothing in this forum that
resonates with you. If you instigate any more trouble, you'll be removed.


Aaron, you make me laugh. I have build much more setups that you ever make and tested various concepts, all proven not to work.
My first attempt was to replicate the bedini motor. I had more than 5 versions. 3 of them quite different setup.It is just not working. I receive consistently COPs 0.5-0.8 whereas Bedini has gone so far to claim 40 or even 60!!

After all, you are not in possition to reply like this to me. John Bedini should stand up himself and talk. We have been too patient with him too long.

In best case i expect him to send me a small Solid State device "tuned" with a small gel-cel battery freely producing OU, to examine myself. I will pay of course the price.

Regarding you, tell me, what is your contribution here exactly, since you are in resonance with this forum? Recirculating muths and selling books?

sucahyo
09-15-2010, 08:26 AM
While they may indeed charge batteries, the impedance mis-match prevents efficient transfer of energy. Much power is lost.I do keep wondering why no one bother to know how to exactly match impedance. And keep me wondering if my way of replacing the charged battery with the coil can be used to measure a battery impedance or matching the coil impedance with the battery....

But it still do not solve battery auto changing impedance problem.


I have problem measuring COP so I never bother to test mine anymore....


I get longer live from my nimh on each radiant charge. put alkaline and zinc carbon battery in the mix too. You may never need to buy the wall clock battery again. I don't get free energy, but I get free battery instead, and that is a significant saving :). The circuit can be build less than a pack of replacement battery too. I don't have to pay royalty fee to John Bedini because he share it for free :thumbsup: .


I wonder why people keep asking COP>1 if they can implement the basic improvement and get huge cost shaving now.

Aaron
09-15-2010, 08:31 AM
Bedini structured coils have an unnecessarily
great DC resistance which is undesirable for
working into low impedance loads. Excessive
resistance in any coil will needlessly dissipate
power as a "loss." Particularly when the coil
is providing power to a Low Impedance which
will demand Maximum Current flow.

A 1:1 Turns Ratio for a coil set which has larger
than ideal DC resistance will not resolve the
impedance mis-match.

Only when the coils themselves have sufficiently
low impedance (as close to 0 Ohms as is practicable)
will they satisfy the Efficient Power Transfer
requirement of having an Impedance Less Than
That of the Load being Powered.

The "1:1 Turns Ratio" without amplifying data is
meaningless. It is imperative to know the
electrical characteristics of the windings
themselves. High Impedance 1:1 is still High
Impedance.

I assure you the "Alum" experiment has been
evaluated and it is a hoax. Pouring out the
liquid electrolyte, in whatever condition, to
replace it with a Potassium/Aluminum Sulfate
Double Salt Solution has no benefit whatever.

However, adding a soluble Sulfate to the
existing electrolyte in a lead acid battery
which is capable of being rejuvenated does
have potentially beneficial effect. It will
work with the existing Sulfuric Acid to reduce
the possibility of dendrite formation.


Before anything is done to a lead acid battery
which has been electrically "drained" such that
it is "completely dead," it should first be attached
to an effective desulfation device. Patiently
desulfating the battery over a period of some
time will, without fail, restore it to useful condition.
Providing (Caveat) that the battery is not physically
damaged internally and is only "sulfated" from neglect.

There is no need to resort to any "Snake Oil" procedure
using an "Alum" which is far less effective than the
intended electrolyte for the battery.

"Alum" has no "magic" powers.

You keep putting words into people's mouths.
Nobody has said alum has magical powers or "benefits"
above and beyond what the battery already has.
You also are putting word's into people's mouths also
by mentioning putting alum an a battery and charging
it with radiant energy. Where do you come up with
such nonsense?

It was brought up as something that CAN be done,
I've done it and it works and so have other people.
Only the curious naysayers are hell-bent on
claiming it screws up batteries or doesn't work.

And comprehending what I wrote about a battery
needing rejuvenation won't have much acid in the
solution compared to a new battery - the obvious
reason is that it is on the plates. If you have
the alum and distilled water mix, which is very
water soluble, there is no shortage of original
sulfuric acid that prevents the battery from
working properly. So the alum is not snake oil,
it is only you overlaying your own perspective
and interpretation on it on top of other people's
discussions about it and you even started it
by outrageously claiming that alum won't dissolve
in water and you know very well we're talking about
the common food additive alum!

You talk about needlessly dissipating power as loss.
Why? There is going to be some loss obviously but they
are still very, very efficient. And even beyond
efficiency, who cares? It keeps batteries out
of the landfill, extends their life and their capacity
as a matter of fact and works perfectly as a
desulphator. There is no question about it
except from a few people that gripe a lot with
words but have shown nothing in return.

Please SHOW what you have that is better.

I'm not going to argue about it being desirable to have
less resistance, but that is common sense. But this
is what you need to understand. This thread is about
the EnergenX chargers.

Efficiency is not the only key even though
they are efficient - it is the benefits you get from the
charge and those you cannot ignore. They do what is
claimed, period.

And, you don't even know the various charging methods
in these commercially available ones from EnergenX
so your comments about the resistance is irrelevant
in this thread.

Many of us deviated from the purpose of this thread
including me but you're trying to have an argument
about something and you don't even know how the
chargers are built.

You know what is open sourced but that is it.

And being that these chargers have a very legitimate
and practical nature and value to them, I'd use them
if they were 50% efficient just because I LOVE what
they do to my batteries. Especially my lawn mower!

sucahyo
09-15-2010, 08:40 AM
In best case i expect him to send me a small Solid State device "tuned" with a small gel-cel battery freely producing OU, to examine myself. I will pay of course the price.I don't remember John Bedini ever said or used gel-cell battery to get OU? where do you get that wrong information?

Aaron
09-15-2010, 09:15 AM
Sucahyo,

I don't believe some of these statements are very sincere - they are to
stir up trouble.

It is true that John did use some gels in many tests but also used
regular flooded cells.

These chargers are better for flooded cells.

One test from TUV that showed cop 5.0 may have been on gel
cells. The results are blamed on the Peukert effect where drawing
a very small C rating will give an unrealistic demo of what is really
happening.

But that doesn't explain a COP of 12-15 on a bicycle wheel motor.

There are a few methods of "overunity" possible with these circuits
solid state and with the rotor.

One is with simply running it at high efficiency and having a wheel
turning, accounting for the work in the wheel can put it over 1.0
depending on the build.

Another is with high capacitance discharges with a mechanical switch
where more work can be drawn from that battery as a fact compared
to how many joules left the input battery. Disconnecting the machine
from the charging battery, the battery would climb and in my tests up
to an hour and it was not a fluffy charge but one that would actually
power a load so well, I used that charge to power an electric scooter
that I would ride down to Bedini's shop (from my office down the street
9 years ago). Bearden says that is from the ion momentum in charging
mode. I think it is that and something else, but in either case, it is
for real and some skeptics want to claim that charge is a phantom charge,
but there weren't there to ride my scooter.

Another "overunity" is simply by calculating the joules that go into the
system and even if it is under 1.0 cop, you wind up with a certain amount
of usable joules in the recovery. Swap batteries, repeat and repeat
and repeat and add up all those joules of energy used and compare that
to only what initially left the input battery and it is over 1.0 cop.

But in any case, there are no over 1.0 cop claims with the EnergenX
chargers because it is irrelevant. The benefits are what they do to the
batteries and those benefits are worth their weight in gold - or batteries
at least!

SeaMonkey
09-15-2010, 07:45 PM
I do keep wondering why no one bother to know how to exactly match impedance. And keep me wondering if my way of replacing the charged battery with the coil can be used to measure a battery impedance or matching the coil impedance with the battery....

But it still do not solve battery auto changing impedance problem.


I have problem measuring COP so I never bother to test mine anymore....


I get longer live from my nimh on each radiant charge. put alkaline and zinc carbon battery in the mix too. You may never need to buy the wall clock battery again. I don't get free energy, but I get free battery instead, and that is a significant saving :). The circuit can be build less than a pack of replacement battery too. I don't have to pay royalty fee to John Bedini because he share it for free :thumbsup: .


I wonder why people keep asking COP>1 if they can implement the basic improvement and get huge cost shaving now.

Accurately measuring and verifying the
existence of "overunity" is a daunting
task. Increases or decreases in battery
voltage are very unreliable indications,
especially when the batteries are being
"pulsed."

You have discovered the benefits of pulse
charging though. NiMH and NiCd batteries
performance will definitely improve when
pulse charged. "Radiant Spike" charging is
particularly effective because it is very
brief and very intense.

What you are doing with your "disposable"
batteries is very good. It is possible to
keep them going for a very long time with
frequent "re-charging."

Bedini certainly does deserve much credit
for what he's accomplished and for the publicity
that his projects enjoy. They've gotten a good
many people "experimenting" with some fun
concepts and learning enormously in the process.

As far as impedance matching goes, luckily the
process isn't too complicated. As long as the
impedance of the Source is less than the impedance
of the Load there will be efficient power transfer.

For the greatest instantaneous power transfer the
impedance of the Source and the Load must be equal;
but this special case is only 50% efficient.

SeaMonkey
09-15-2010, 08:08 PM
You keep putting words into people's mouths.
Nobody has said alum has magical powers or "benefits"
above and beyond what the battery already has.
You also are putting word's into people's mouths also
by mentioning putting alum an a battery and charging
it with radiant energy. Where do you come up with
such nonsense?

It was brought up as something that CAN be done,
I've done it and it works and so have other people.
Only the curious naysayers are hell-bent on
claiming it screws up batteries or doesn't work.

And comprehending what I wrote about a battery
needing rejuvenation won't have much acid in the
solution compared to a new battery - the obvious
reason is that it is on the plates. If you have
the alum and distilled water mix, which is very
water soluble, there is no shortage of original
sulfuric acid that prevents the battery from
working properly. So the alum is not snake oil,
it is only you overlaying your own perspective
and interpretation on it on top of other people's
discussions about it and you even started it
by outrageously claiming that alum won't dissolve
in water and you know very well we're talking about
the common food additive alum!

You talk about needlessly dissipating power as loss.
Why? There is going to be some loss obviously but they
are still very, very efficient. And even beyond
efficiency, who cares? It keeps batteries out
of the landfill, extends their life and their capacity
as a matter of fact and works perfectly as a
desulphator. There is no question about it
except from a few people that gripe a lot with
words but have shown nothing in return.

Please SHOW what you have that is better.

I'm not going to argue about it being desirable to have
less resistance, but that is common sense. But this
is what you need to understand. This thread is about
the EnergenX chargers.

Efficiency is not the only key even though
they are efficient - it is the benefits you get from the
charge and those you cannot ignore. They do what is
claimed, period.

And, you don't even know the various charging methods
in these commercially available ones from EnergenX
so your comments about the resistance is irrelevant
in this thread.

Many of us deviated from the purpose of this thread
including me but you're trying to have an argument
about something and you don't even know how the
chargers are built.

You know what is open sourced but that is it.

And being that these chargers have a very legitimate
and practical nature and value to them, I'd use them
if they were 50% efficient just because I LOVE what
they do to my batteries. Especially my lawn mower!


No Claims were made that "Alum" is insoluble in water.

It was correctly pointed out that the chemical

Sodium Aluminosilicate

referred to in the article:

(a) is NOT Alum

and

(b) is not soluble in water.

Apparently some have come to believe that
Sodium Aluminosilicate is the same as "Alum."

This sort of mistake frequently happens when those
who have no training in Science read or originate erroneous
articles describing some process.

There are many things that can be done to make
some sort of electrochemical "cell" or "battery."
The use of an "Alum" as an electrolyte is one of
those cases; a measurable voltage will be produced
and the "cell" will seemingly function.

As an electrochemical cell electrolyte, Alum is
ineffective. There are other choices which are far
more effective.

While the "topic" title of this thread is devoted to
a particular "charger" it is not uncommon to discover
that questions will arise regarding batteries and the
chemical processes taking place within them.

Readers may also bring into the discussion "Radiant"
energy and "Bedini" as well as "pulses and spikes."

Others may bring into the discussion issues related
to "integrity" and "accuracy of information."

And inevitably, when a product is being discussed,
its "price" will also be of some importance.

Many readers will peruse the thread looking for
honest answers. Too often what is found instead
is a "song and a dance."

While amusing, it is a bit of a turn-off.

Is someone trying too hard to Sing and Dance
as a defense?

Aaron
09-15-2010, 11:31 PM
There are many things that can be done to make
some sort of electrochemical "cell" or "battery."
The use of an "Alum" as an electrolyte is one of
those cases; a measurable voltage will be produced
and the "cell" will seemingly function.

As an electrochemical cell electrolyte, Alum is
ineffective. There are other choices which are far
more effective.

Is someone trying too hard to Sing and Dance
as a defense?

Alum is not ineffective and aluminum sulfate IS used together
with straight sulfuric acid and other chemicals as an electrolyte in
a flooded cell lead acid battery. Look at the additives in use for
many decades.

Go search the patents and see how many lead acid battery electrolyte
formulas have "aluminum sulfate" your plain ol pickling alum. What, you
think they're all spending thousands of dollars to patent that when
it is ineffective in an electrolytic cell? Please.

I know that just because there is a patent doesn't mean it works but
a little common sense goes a long way. You're trying to overlay your
belief system on everyone about your false claims that essentially,
there is no use for ALUM - aluminum sulfate in an electrolytic cell. That
is false as your claim is false.

And the singing and dancing? You're doing some subtle disinformation
dance but you're not fooling anyone. The following quote is a part of
it...

Accurately measuring and verifying the
existence of "overunity" is a daunting
task. Increases or decreases in battery
voltage are very unreliable indications,
especially when the batteries are being
"pulsed."

Nobody here is talking about using voltage alone as an indication of
overunity. Why put that in anyone's mouth when it isn't even being
claimed by anyone. WORK that is gotten out of the battery is the
indication of it having something really there.

By discussing something about using battery voltage as an indication
and how unreliable it is when nobody brought that up is subtly slipping
that out into the conversation so that someone that isn't paying attention
will see that and think, "Wow, so their overunity claims are based on
voltage readings - of course that's fake - I'm out of here!"

That is planting suggestions/thoughts for people when it wasn't even on
the table. There is no rational reason to debate how poor of an indication
battery voltage is when nobody brought it up.

And over 1.0 cop systems are under 100% efficient so there is no
overunity, which is an oxymoron.

sucahyo
09-16-2010, 03:18 AM
Sucahyo,

I don't believe some of these statements are very sincere - they are to
stir up trouble.

It is true that John did use some gels in many tests but also used
regular flooded cells.

These chargers are better for flooded cells.Thanks for the information :thumbsup: .

Ion momentum make me remember that I do came accross 30 seconds limit a lot.

For the greatest instantaneous power transfer the impedance of the Source and the Load must be equal; but this special case is only 50% efficient.??? Isn't that too small? While charging a battery my circuit definitely register more than 50% with an amp meter / volt meter reading? And I don't think my coil impedance is near the battery impedance, more like twice or three times bigger.




I really think zinc carbon charging should be added to r-charge functionality. I wet cooking (charge it real hot) 9V zinc carbon just now and get 9.5V usable charge from previously 8.5V.

SeaMonkey
09-16-2010, 07:29 AM
??? Isn't that too small? While charging a battery my circuit definitely register more than 50% with an amp meter / volt meter reading? And I don't think my coil impedance is near the battery impedance, more like twice or three times bigger.




I really think zinc carbon charging should be added to r-charge functionality. I wet cooking (charge it real hot) 9V zinc carbon just now and get 9.5V usable charge from previously 8.5V.

The MAXIMUM Power Transfer (Special Case)
is the condition which defines the MAXIMUM
Power available from a given source.

Assume a source of 50 Volts which has an
internal resistance of 50 Ohms.

What is the MAXIMUM power that this source
will deliver to any LOAD? What will be the
LOAD IMPEDANCE (RESISTANCE) which will
result in MAXIMUM LOAD POWER DISSIPATION?

When the numerous possibilities are evaluated
you will find that:

For all Load Impedances which are less than the Source
Impedance most power will be dissipated (lost) in the
SOURCE RESISTANCE. Efficiency will be less than 50%.

For all Load Impedances which are greater than the
Source Impedance more power will be available to the
Load than is lost in the Source Impedance. Efficiency
will be greater than 50%, however, the POWER delivered
to the LOAD will be less than the MAXIMUM Power the
Source is capable of.

When the LOAD IMPEDANCE is exactly equal to the
SOURCE IMPEDANCE, and ONLY when this equality
exists, will MAXIMUM POWER be delivered to the LOAD.
The efficiency under this MAXIMUM POWER condition
is exactly 50%.

Whenever a 50 Ohm Load is matched to a 50 Ohm
Source, the Power which the Load receives is 50%
of the Total Power Available from the Source.

Therefore, unless MAXIMUM POWER is absolutely
essential, a Matched Impedance does produce a
decrease in efficiency.

For Maximum Efficiency the Load Impedance should
be many times greater than the Source Impedance.

Source Impedances which are too great (coils with
too many turns and too much DC resistance) cannot
be efficiently used to provide power to a low impedance
Load such as a battery, without some sort of impedance
transformation. Much power (more than half) will be lost.


When Primary Cells/Batteries (Non-Rechargeable) are
re-charged with a Radiant Source, care must be taken
to assure that the charging current is quite small
(30 milliAmperes or less) to avoid gas buildup and rupture
of the seals which will leak the electrolyte and ruin the
cell/battery.

SeaMonkey
09-16-2010, 07:33 AM
And the singing and dancing? You're doing some subtle disinformation
dance but you're not fooling anyone.

The Song and Dance (Circular Two Step)
is truly a Solo Act. I shall return from
Intermission following the Fat Lady.

DavidE
09-16-2010, 10:15 AM
Aaron

I could care less about powering an led clock. If I want to know what
time it is, I'll look outside. I haven't worn a watch regularly since 1994.

The point is not developing a timepiece - it is to demonstrate a capacity and vehicle for broad belief of application of a specific technology.

Let's take this concept of yours and see if there is any common sense
behind it. There isn't but I'm going to briefly explore it. How many
Velijko oscillators did you build, how many rotary attraction motors did
you build, how many joule thief circuits did you build, etc...

Where's the beef? That's part of it. All those are valid over 1.0 cop
systems posted right here and you have the audacity to complain?

Would you like some smelly cheese to go with that whine?

Your post sounds more like an audition for a soap opera than an attempt
to have any meaningful communication.
A true fundamental technology should be able to produce a common function - a function that is beyond reasonable doubt. A lit LED or Clock could accomplish this. The point is NOT about DRAMA but about producing a real physical item that immutably proves a capacity.


You accuse me of being disinformation in one way or another. Here is
where the "real you" is revealed. Whether or not I show it is possible
or I show schematics is irrelevant. The ANSWER to what my motives are
self evidently displayed in my work and you have no room to talk
at all.

Once the answer is self evident you then continue to whine and say
you're not interested in the ideas but want the beef.

However, demonstrating the possibility or posting schematics, which I've
done both, is NOT a requirement to prove my intentions and I really don't
have to prove anything to anyone, especially someone such as yourself.

Thank you for the answer. You can't and won't answer with a real circuit that can accomplish what you say is already obvious.

You haven't done any of my Gray circuit tests to see that at a certain
scale, having x joules of charge in the caps, discharging them with
the method into an electromagnetic coil can launch a magnet higher
than the math says that many joules can launch an object of a certain
weight to a certain height against gravity. You choose to gripe.
I never said I did't believe in examples that show promise in the field. Boiling it down to an example that can be seen by all was the discussion.

There are so many over 1.0 cop systems in this forum but you obviously
aren't qualified for this field because you can't even recognize them for
what they are.
If this is true, lighting an LED or CLOCK should be a simple task. APPLY one of these technologies - prove that it is as easy as you say - otherwise it is just postured conjecture.

Recently Peter and I released some vids and one is a DePalma lecture.
It isn't a secret how his machine works and it is COP 10.0. It is expensive
to build but what is stopping you? A bad attitude?
My objective is simple and has really nothing to do with me.

So once the intention is more than obvious, it answers your question,
then you continue to whine about wanting beef and not the theories.

You are an inconsistent individual. Getting an answer to what you ask
isn't good enough - actually it is but it is obvious in your make-up that
you are wholly and completely compelled to find something to gripe about
and it really has nothing to do with me.
I ask for a demonstration of the simplest kind. Either it is possible and post-able or it is not. Apparently not so far. Which suggest people are unwilling, or can't apply these technologies in even the most elementary ways.

MJN's oscillator has been running for 3 months nonstop powering leds.
He posted a schematic. You choose to gripe and ignore there are solutions
all around you. That is typical for a type of individual that wants to take
no responsibility for their own life or the world they live in. Where is your
replication attempt? Self powered light circuit - any interest in building
one? No? I didn't think so - you choose to complain about everything.
I have not seen this and will review it if you can point me in the direction of the reference. It matters not to me WHO does this. It matters that it is done and underlined as a undeniable proof, and not the front end of some kind of spoof.

Good luck to you in your bunker and leave me alone and keep your
insults and character bashing to yourself. It is that kind of
attitude that causes people with many things to share to hold back and
not give them out. You are part of the problem and NOT part of the
solution and you think you have room to complain. So sad!
Listen. I asked a hard question - and I see nothing but waffling, versus providing an answer to the discussion. I have plenty of belief in this field. I have seen plenty of evidence, but with comprehensive knowledge of a prospective capacity - all we have so far is expensive hobbies.

In the end when certain people have the lights on, you'll be sitting in
the dark, in more ways than one.

Matthew 7:6
Wow. You claim the world doesn't deserve the knowledge of FE because they are not enlightened enough. For me that is a stinging perspective, one that smacks of perceived privilege complete with polo ponies. I am sorry you feel that way of most people on the planet. Questioning what I know and then emphasizing it with scripture is a new twist for me. I DON'T believe that scripture was ever created for such use. But, do what you must. After all, its your party.

peper10
09-16-2010, 10:23 AM
I start to jump back into forum this week and i'm deceived to see things
dont change...
I see alot of new names,alot of discussion that do :Mary go around.
But,when this forum was a newborn there was tons of hobbyist that where
experimenting..
Like jetjis,ren,marthale and name it..
It lands us to dissacording and argueing forum that most of people used
scientific words and put it all in the same phrase and think they got the
ansewr...
Insted of want :To see the beef,why not try to make that beef.........???
My experience lands me to believe that when you got question and try to find
the ansewr,it never comes from others...... You have to experiment it yourself
and''Hit the wall to come to EVIDENCE...
Since my knowledge is not too good with electronics,i put my energy into
building energy system at my house..Like solar and wind...

It's not rocket science and i MAKE THE DIFFERENCE...
I cut an average of 40$ of my electric bill since last year....

But for those guy out there who have better understanding of electronics
and tesla theory and Bedini circuits..Go men and experiment...

But dont go argue and try to kill the bird before he is born....:cheers: :cheers:

John_K
09-16-2010, 11:43 AM
The MAXIMUM Power Transfer (Special Case)
is the condition which defines the MAXIMUM
Power available from a given source.

Assume a source of 50 Volts which has an
internal resistance of 50 Ohms.

What is the MAXIMUM power that this source
will deliver to any LOAD? What will be the
LOAD IMPEDANCE (RESISTANCE) which will
result in MAXIMUM LOAD POWER DISSIPATION?

When the numerous possibilities are evaluated
you will find that:

For all Load Impedances which are less than the Source
Impedance most power will be dissipated (lost) in the
SOURCE RESISTANCE. Efficiency will be less than 50%.

For all Load Impedances which are greater than the
Source Impedance more power will be available to the
Load than is lost in the Source Impedance. Efficiency
will be greater than 50%, however, the POWER delivered
to the LOAD will be less than the MAXIMUM Power the
Source is capable of.

When the LOAD IMPEDANCE is exactly equal to the
SOURCE IMPEDANCE, and ONLY when this equality
exists, will MAXIMUM POWER be delivered to the LOAD.
The efficiency under this MAXIMUM POWER condition
is exactly 50%.

Whenever a 50 Ohm Load is matched to a 50 Ohm
Source, the Power which the Load receives is 50%
of the Total Power Available from the Source.

Therefore, unless MAXIMUM POWER is absolutely
essential, a Matched Impedance does produce a
decrease in efficiency.

For Maximum Efficiency the Load Impedance should
be many times greater than the Source Impedance.

Source Impedances which are too great (coils with
too many turns and too much DC resistance) cannot
be efficiently used to provide power to a low impedance
Load such as a battery, without some sort of impedance
transformation. Much power (more than half) will be lost.


When Primary Cells/Batteries (Non-Rechargeable) are
re-charged with a Radiant Source, care must be taken
to assure that the charging current is quite small
(30 milliAmperes or less) to avoid gas buildup and rupture
of the seals which will leak the electrolyte and ruin the
cell/battery.

Seamonkey,

You pretty much described how a Bedini SSG operates as an "Inductance Coupled Impedance Matching Trigger Device" (pg 42, Fig 26 - Bearden - Free Energy Generation - Circuits and Schematics. Copyright 2006 Cheniere Press)

When I posted about impedance matching the other day I was mainly talking about the front end of the Bedini SSG circuit, not the back end. The way I understand it is that the front end is a conventional EE circuit, therefore it follows all the conventional rules. In the case of impedance matching, we aim to get the total impedance of the coils (LOAD) at the same or lower impedance of the primary battery (SOURCE).
As you described, the maximum efficiency on the front end can be obtained at these conditions.

But what about the bank end? Here's where it gets a bit tricky - as you correctly posted:

"For all Load Impedances which are greater than the
Source Impedance more power will be available to the
Load than is lost in the Source Impedance. Efficiency
will be greater than 50%, however, the POWER delivered
to the LOAD will be less than the MAXIMUM Power the
Source is capable of."

Now the LOAD is the charging battery and the SOURCE is the coil (as it is charged). According to the theory, the way I understand it is that at the point in time where the transistor switches off (the "spike") the Load Impedance "appears" to be greater than the Source Impedance, therefore the maximum power is transferred to the LOAD. Then the current catches up to the "spike" to ruin the party.

In that first instant there is a massive impedance mismatch, due to the large difference in potential between the coil and the battery. In order to "re-guage", the battery wants to be at the same impedance as the coil and vice-versa. So the battery lowers its impedance, which is coincidentally the same thing that to a battery when it is being charged. It's during this "asymmetrical re-guaging" that the battery receives the most amount of charge, the current that follows the spike is an unfortunate by product. Some of the current is wasted as heat in the coil (especially if the coil is driven too hard and over-saturated) and some of it goes to the battery and yes, does charge the battery a little bit.

But it is the "spike" is the "signal" that tells the battery to lower its impedance and "charge". The battery, because it has lead for brains :) , is happy to do that.

Anyhow, that's the way I see it.

:cheers:

John K.

DavidE
09-16-2010, 06:12 PM
Pepr10

I agree and applaud most of what you said.

But when the community claims to have fundamental knowledge (or different flavors of the same), proof of that is utilizing it in a circuit or device that proves the principle. It should be simple enough to be understood by ALL. Please no more flip-de-doodle, tic toc fulcrum devices.

I am tired of what people infer that they know. I say, quit playing games - put up or shut up. I have done enough work to prove that FE or OU (call it what you will) exists. My speculation is that it is no more than another process that leverages a natural force that has always been part of our world. In other words, WE created nothing, we merely became acquainted with another glint of primal essence.

New common sense is emerging over time. We are beginning to see that historical reference (books) have been cooked to hide or make hard to see a broader truth.

My conversation with Aaron really isn't about Aaron. Its about all of us. Either what we learn can be demonstrated by practical means, or what's the point?

The observer should not need to have a doctorate in physics or be an electrical engineer. When we can learn to do this, it will likely effect the world in a profound way.

I can remember when I bought my first MP3 player. People asked me what it was and I explained it. Many of the responses were like "no way." Enter Steve Jobs and the iPod. How many industries and fortunes were changed by that bit of brilliance? But it all started with a common circuit - that could execute a digital file.

If we want to advance and really collaborate - we must find a way to move to and from some kind of common platform. Once we do that a thousand variations will likely form. Countless value will likely come from that one collaborative center.

What is stunning is that I have no doubt that hundreds maybe thousands of individuals could do what I have suggested here (LED Challenge). But they scoff, grumble, try to devalue the idea so that they may covet their own interpretation of the prize. Here lies the end of my rant.

I apologize for posting off topic on this thread. For what its worth, anything Bedini is worth the price to own it. I never feel bad about paying a lot for someones blood, tears, sweat - results created from a life of passionate pursuit, of concepts and practical applications... that at one time was thought impossible.

SeaMonkey
09-16-2010, 09:32 PM
Pepr10

I agree and applaud most of what you said.

But when the community claims to have fundamental knowledge (or different flavors of the same), proof of that is utilizing it in a circuit or device that proves the principle. It should be simple enough to be understood by ALL. Please no more flip-de-doodle, tic toc fulcrum devices.
...

If we want to advance and really collaborate - we must find a way to move to and from some kind of common platform. Once we do that a thousand variations will likely form. Countless value will likely come from that one collaborative center.

What is stunning is that I have no doubt that hundreds maybe thousands of individuals could do what I have suggested here (LED Challenge). But they scoff, grumble, try to devalue the idea so that they may covet their own interpretation of the prize. Here lies the end of my rant.

I apologize for posting off topic on this thread. For what its worth, anything Bedini is worth the price to own it. I never feel bad about paying a lot for someones blood, tears, sweat - results created from a life of passionate pursuit, of concepts and practical applications... that at one time was thought impossible.

The discussion within the thread may have expanded
well beyond the narrow confines of the "title" but that
is not necessarily counter-productive.

To maximize "Free Energy" or "Over-Unity" we must do all
that we're able to MINIMIZE LOSSES. Conserve as much
energy as possible by opting for MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY.

It is rarely necessary, or desirable, to extract MAXIMUM
POWER from the Free Energy reservoir. In fact, by
attempting to extract maximum power we risk "killing"
the effect or initiating unpredictable outcome.

Take only what is needed at any given time in order to
prolong the process - in due time we'll obtain far more
total energy when it's an ongoing evolution.

The impedance of the battery does vary to some
extent throughout the discharge/charge cycles;
the healthier the battery the lower its impedance.

By assuring that whatever Source we're using to provide
power to the battery has the lowest practicable impedance,
we'll be assured of obtaining over the long term the Maximum
Available Total Energy of the source. Very little will be lost.

sucahyo
09-17-2010, 04:45 AM
For all Load Impedances which are less than the Source Impedance most power will be dissipated (lost) in the SOURCE RESISTANCE. Efficiency will be less than 50%.I don't get it. I measure voltage and amp of my source and destination and then divide it to get >50% measured efficiency. Using the same method I measure my old circuit to be 3%.

How can you predict lost on a circuit that behave differently from normal? A circuit that its efficiency increase when the load impedance reduced. I always notice that my efficiency increase with 3V compared to 12V. Shorting out the load will produce 0 amp compared to usual maxed current consumption.

You theory do not work on mine.

When Primary Cells/Batteries (Non-Rechargeable) are re-charged with a Radiant Source, care must be taken
to assure that the charging current is quite small (30 milliAmperes or less) to avoid gas buildup and rupture of the seals which will leak the electrolyte and ruin the cell/battery.In my case, I think my rechargeable capacity reduced by the heat of quick charger. I rarely notice reduced capacity when I use radiant charger. For me gas build up is less dangerous than heat.Since my radiant charger can charge with very little heat on the battery, even on 300mA, I get longer life.

SeaMonkey
09-17-2010, 07:19 AM
I don't get it. I measure voltage and amp of my source and destination and then divide it to get >50% measured efficiency. Using the same method I measure my old circuit to be 3%.

How can you predict lost on a circuit that behave differently from normal? A circuit that its efficiency increase when the load impedance reduced. I always notice that my efficiency increase with 3V compared to 12V. Shorting out the load will produce 0 amp compared to usual maxed current consumption.

You theory do not work on mine.




Would it be possible for you to show your
calculations and the values of Voltage,
Current and Resistance? What are the
characteristics of the "source" and the
"destination?"


Are you saying that by reducing the impedance
of your Load the efficiency of the power transfer
increases?


When you observe an increase in efficiency at
3 Volts instead of 12 Volts, what is the source
and what is the load?


How are you able to "short out the load" and
measure 0 Amperes? Where is the Ammeter
positioned within the circuit when it indicates
0 Amperes?

We need a little more detail on the above
questions in order to evaluate what is taking place.

Mark
09-17-2010, 01:32 PM
Hey Guys

Does anyone have any experience with Bedini's solid state radiant energy pump US Patent 2003/0117111 A1. Is this the solar power charger?

Mark

sucahyo
09-18-2010, 02:47 AM
Sorry SeaMonkey, I have it wrong, my memory is dull. My circuit is more efficient with higher impedance load, less efficient without load.
"I always notice that my efficiency increase with 3V compared to 12V" is wrong.
"A circuit that its efficiency increase when the load impedance reduced" should be "A circuit that its efficiency increase with a load".

Would it be possible for you to show your calculations and the values of Voltage, Current and Resistance? What are the
characteristics of the "source" and the "destination?"I don't measure resistance, is it enough to show with and without load?

Video on different experiment:
YouTube - COP = 69% battery charging battery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT97zZIHB7A)

YouTube - Swap Charging front and back battery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKDndLGK0Hk)

Are you saying that by reducing the impedance of your Load the efficiency of the power transfer increases?With load my circuit consume less power.
YouTube - Input current reduce when there is load (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhyEvwH5oO0)

When you observe an increase in efficiency at 3 Volts instead of 12 Volts, what is the source and what is the load?Same source, same circuit different load. Sorry, I have it backward:

old circuit, single:
Source voltage is 11.5V.

Input current without load = 1 Amp
Input current with load = 2 Amp

Current in the load (charging current) = 0.25 Amp

Voltage in the load part:
without load = 90V
with load = 9.4V
on battery = 2.72V

on total load:
Efficiency = (load voltage*load current)/(source voltage*source current)
Efficiency = (9.4V * 0.25)/(11.5V * 2)
Efficiency = (2.35 Watt)/(23 Watt)
Efficiency = 0.1 ~ 10%


on battery only:
Efficiency = (load voltage*load current)/(source voltage*source current)
Efficiency = (2.72V * 0.25)/(11.5V * 2)
Efficiency = (0.68 Watt)/(23 Watt)
Efficiency = 0.029 ~ 3%


new circuit, single.
Performance data charging two 1.2V nicad (1000mAh):
Input: 0.7A @ 10.4V = 7.28watt
Output: 0.45A @ 3.2V = 1.44watt (at full battery)
Efficiency: 19%

Performance data charging one 12V gel SLA (7Ah/20hr):
Input: 0.62A @ 10.5V = 6.51watt
Output: 0.24A @ 13.1V = 3.14watt(initial voltage raising before going down)
Efficiency: 48%



How are you able to "short out the load" and
measure 0 Amperes? Where is the Ammeter positioned within the circuit when it indicates 0 Amperes?amp meter is in series with source battery. My circuit that do this is modified joule thief and stingo. My circuit is unpredictable, sometime I need to wake it up / power it up with a touch of hand.

SeaMonkey
09-18-2010, 04:46 AM
My circuit is more efficient with higher impedance load, less efficient without load.
...

I don't measure resistance, is it enough to show with and without load?
...

amp meter is in series with source battery. My circuit that do this is modified joule thief and stingo. My circuit is unpredictable, sometime I need to wake it up / power it up with a touch of hand.

Thank you for the clarification.

There are some oscillator circuits which exhibit
that sort of "anomalous" behavior; a current draw
which "decreases" when a "load" is attached.

And, often oscillator circuits on the bench are
somewhat "unpredictable" and need a little
"touch" to get them going.

This is the nature of the Radio Frequency Blocking
Oscillator (Joule Thief) circuit until it is "fine tuned"
for stability. For best operation it must be mounted
on a circuit board with soldered connections and very
short wiring connections between the various parts.

When a Radio Frequency Oscillator circuit is operated
without a "Load" a radiated "standing wave" may develop
in the wiring which will draw excessive current from the
source; once a load is connected the standing wave is
dissipated and the current demand from the source is
decreased.

It seems very odd and unusual but at Radio Frequencies
strange things can happen!

nvisser
09-18-2010, 07:56 AM
Why is it called a "Radio Frequency Blocking Oscillator"?
Yesterday I pulsed my boost converter with 300khz instead of the normal 3Khz and it blocked the FM radio standing 5 feet away. It went silent. Is that why it is called that?

SeaMonkey
09-19-2010, 03:01 AM
Why is it called a "Radio Frequency Blocking Oscillator"?
Yesterday I pulsed my boost converter with 300khz instead of the normal 3Khz and it blocked the FM radio standing 5 feet away. It went silent. Is that why it is called that?

See! "Radiant Energy" is amazing stuff!

Actually, the "Radiant Spike" is very rich in harmonics
which can extend up into the high MHz. They're capable
of "interfering" with radio reception as EMI/RFI which is
why the electronics industry does its best to suppress
their existence in consumer electronics devices.

See attachments for details of Blocking Oscillator from
an article which goes waaaay back. It's one of the
simplest pulsing circuits - does the schematic diagram
look familiar?

sucahyo
09-20-2010, 02:43 AM
This is the nature of the Radio Frequency Blocking Oscillator (Joule Thief) circuit until it is "fine tuned" for stability. For best operation it must be mounted on a circuit board with soldered connections and very short wiring connections between the various parts.I think that unpredictability may also be natural behaviour of this kind of circuit.

See video bellow, I intend to show how charging 1.5V nicad have less current consumption than charging 12V SLA, less than without load. Notice the current reading without load, it fluctuate between 330mA to 3A!

YouTube - Stingo, reduced current consumption with lower load impedance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIs2ARfSGlY)

So unstability may not be unwanted. Isn't conventional circuit dispose any sign of instability and kill free energy component along the way?

SeaMonkey
09-20-2010, 03:48 AM
I think that unpredictability may also be natural behaviour of this kind of circuit.
...

So unstability may not be unwanted. Isn't conventional circuit dispose any sign of instability and kill free energy component along the way?

If the base drive (in the case of a transistor) or the gate
drive (for a MosFet) can be stabilized and isolated from
loading effects then the current draw of the circuit should
be minimal under load. Once a load is disconnected from
the circuit unusual operation may result due to the surge
in Radiant Spikes.

It is possible to construct a circuit which has good stability
yet produces abundant Radiant output. It never seems a
good idea to run a Radiant Circuit without a load.

Yes, in most electronics circuits the presence of Radiant
is highly undesirable since it can produce difficult to
control conditions as well as EMI/RFI. In consumer electronics
the coincidental "radiation" must be nearly unmeasurable.

sucahyo
09-20-2010, 04:00 AM
If the base drive (in the case of a transistor) or the gate drive (for a MosFet) can be stabilized and isolated from loading effects then the current draw of the circuit should be minimal under load. Once a load is disconnected from the circuit unusual operation may result due to the surge in Radiant Spikes.Not sure about that. Can 555 controlled transistor / MOSFET reduce consumption with load? do you have reference video?

SeaMonkey
09-22-2010, 03:09 AM
Not sure about that. Can 555 controlled transistor / MOSFET reduce consumption with load? do you have reference video?

When a 555 Timer chip, or other pulse generator,
is used to drive a Radiant producing inductor it
will be possible to finely adjust the pulse width
in order to "charge" the inductor with maximum
energy. The pulse width will be just long enough
to take the inductor to the brink of saturation
so that the magnetic field strength will be
maximum.

Then when this magnetic energy is released as
a Radiant Impulse its energy content will be
maximum.

When this energy is released without being "loaded"
it can climb to several hundred volts which may
cause damage to the switching transistor or MosFet.

For maximum efficiency a fairly low voltage transistor
or MosFet would be desirable for the increased
conductivity (least resistance) when the device is
saturated.

In order to protect the transistor or MosFet from
damage it would be necessary to always have a "load"
connected to the circuit in order to safely dissipate
the Radiant Spike.

When such a circuit is operating into a "load" the
current draw from the source can be quite small.
Then, if the "load" is disconnected and the Radiant
Spike is permitted to assume dangerous proportions
the transistor or the MosFet would function erratically
and the current draw would increase until the device
destroys itself. This destruction may occur suddenly or
it may take several minutes during which time the
transistor or MosFet would get very hot.

That is why I do not advocate operating a Radiant circuit
without a load. Especially if the circuit has been "tuned"
to maximize magnetic field strength and hence, the
strength of the Radiant Spike.

Aaron
09-22-2010, 04:08 AM
Especially if the circuit has been "tuned"
to maximize magnetic field strength and hence, the
strength of the Radiant Spike.

Have you posted any videos to show you have built anything that works
or demonstrates your working knowledge?

Seriously now. A circuit does NOT have to be "tuned" in any way to
maximize the magnetic field strength. You can run it very inefficiently,
"untuned", and the coil can still have maximum field strength
and the strength of the spike is not going to be any more stronger
than if the circuit was tuned.

The field strength concept you mention isn't where you're looking for
the maximum spike. It is allowing the coil to remain off just long enough
to get the full spike without turning the coil back on too quickly and
bucking against it, which would reduce the spike you're going to get.

If it is tuned, you just get the coil charged to the max with minimum
power and if it is not tuned, you get the coil charged by burning
up more than you need. In either case, there is nothing valid about
your "especially if the circuit has been tuned" in order to get maximum
field strength.

Why don't you post some videos of your experience with some of these
projects so people can see you're not just wasting their time. Based
on your post about tuning and field strength, it's looking suspicious,
because your post in completely inaccurate.

Run your circuits at 90% duty cycle, that will be horribly inefficient
but I can guarantee the field strength will be just as strong as it will
be if you were at the optimum on time just long enough to reach the
coils saturation and not one bit more.

SeaMonkey
09-22-2010, 07:27 AM
Have you posted any videos to show you have built anything that works
or demonstrates your working knowledge?

Seriously now. A circuit does NOT have to be "tuned" in any way to
maximize the magnetic field strength. You can run it very inefficiently,
"untuned", and the coil can still have maximum field strength
and the strength of the spike is not going to be any more stronger
than if the circuit was tuned.

The field strength concept you mention isn't where you're looking for
the maximum spike. It is allowing the coil to remain off just long enough
to get the full spike without turning the coil back on too quickly and
bucking against it, which would reduce the spike you're going to get.

If it is tuned, you just get the coil charged to the max with minimum
power and if it is not tuned, you get the coil charged by burning
up more than you need. In either case, there is nothing valid about
your "especially if the circuit has been tuned" in order to get maximum
field strength.

Why don't you post some videos of your experience with some of these
projects so people can see you're not just wasting their time. Based
on your post about tuning and field strength, it's looking suspicious,
because your post in completely inaccurate.

Run your circuits at 90% duty cycle, that will be horribly inefficient
but I can guarantee the field strength will be just as strong as it will
be if you were at the optimum on time just long enough to reach the
coils saturation and not one bit more.

When driven by a Pulse Generator circuit, "tuning"
refers to adjustment of the Pulse Width such that
inductor charge current is permitted to flow just
long enough to approach magnetic saturation.

Pulse Width Tuning is not the same as Resonance
Tuning or Frequency Tuning; all that is being tuned is
the Pulse Width which determines the "ON Time" of
the MosFet switch.

This pulse width will then enable the inductor to
acquire maximum magnetic field strength and
maximum stored energy.

When this magnetic energy is "released" by
abrupt cessation of current flow the intense "Radiant"
spike is produced. Its magnitude is directly proportional
to the magnitude of the stored magnetic energy.

Immediately following the "Radiant" spike is a reduced
and prolonged current flow into the "load" which is
consistent with the inductance/load time constant.

Either "continuous" or "dis-continuous" pulsing will produce
that magnitude of "Radiant Spike" once the pulse width
is properly managed. With "continuous" pulsing the
"turn-off" point of the switching MosFet is determined
by Source Current monitor input to a comparator rather
than a fixed pulse width.

With dis-continuous pulsing each inductive discharge
cycle goes to completion. With continuous pulsing the
inductive discharge cycle does not go to completion;
the next "charge" pulse is initiated in the midst of
the inductive "discharge" before it is completed.

Discontinuous pulsing only requires a Pulse Generator
to drive the switch with fixed "ON" and "OFF" times.

Continuous pulsing requires another approach; Source
current is monitored and when its magnitude reaches
the pre-determined "saturation" point the switch is
switched "off" by a control comparator.

As you've pointed out, excessive "duty cycle" is wasteful.
That is the point of pulse width "tuning." Any current flow
beyond the "saturation" point of the inductor is non-productive.

By means of an oscilloscope it is a simple procedure to
"tune" pulse width for maximum Radiant Spike.

Or, as an alternative, a Peak Detecting Voltmeter can
be used to monitor Radiant Spike amplitude.

There are a great many instructional videos available, as
well as printed tutorials, which reinforce these basic
concepts. The printed Applications Notes are well
illustrated with diagrams and waveforms.

Aaron
09-22-2010, 03:49 PM
Eschew obfuscation! lol

"Especially if the circuit has been "tuned"
to maximize magnetic field strength and hence, the
strength of the Radiant Spike."

The above sentence you posted does claim that
the tuning of the circuit allows for maximum field
strength and therefore a stronger radiant spike.

I pointed out a 90% duty cycle is not a tuned circuit
and IS maximizing magnetic field strength and
the spike isn't any more or less than if the circuit
was tuned.

Once the coil is saturated, it isn't going to get any
more saturated with tuning.

Perhaps there is a language barrier to what you're
trying to say but your statement was false and you
obfuscated that entire point in your response by
running everyone in a deviated trajectory away from
the key points. You talk in circles basically and you
did the same thing in the Tesla Switch thread, for
which you have absolutely no experience with -
none that you have ever proven.

Also, do you or do you not have any videos or
documentation of any of your experiments?

You have successfully derailed this thread away from
the Bedini chargers - get on topic or move to a
different thread.

SeaMonkey
09-22-2010, 07:31 PM
Eschew obfuscation! lol

"Especially if the circuit has been "tuned"
to maximize magnetic field strength and hence, the
strength of the Radiant Spike."

The above sentence you posted does claim that
the tuning of the circuit allows for maximum field
strength and therefore a stronger radiant spike.

I pointed out a 90% duty cycle is not a tuned circuit
and IS maximizing magnetic field strength and
the spike isn't any more or less than if the circuit
was tuned.

Once the coil is saturated, it isn't going to get any
more saturated with tuning.

Perhaps there is a language barrier to what you're
trying to say but your statement was false and you
obfuscated that entire point in your response by
running everyone in a deviated trajectory away from
the key points. You talk in circles basically and you
did the same thing in the Tesla Switch thread, for
which you have absolutely no experience with -
none that you have ever proven.

Also, do you or do you not have any videos or
documentation of any of your experiments?

You have successfully derailed this thread away from
the Bedini chargers - get on topic or move to a
different thread.

"Non-Productive Current" flow has been explained.
It is "waste." Excessively long duty cycle is
ineffective.

My own experimentation began in the days before
"video" was even a pipe-dream. Pre-transistor times
during the golden era of the vacuum tube.

In the days when we "peaked the grid" and "dipped
the plate" for maximum Radiant Output.

Transitioning to the Transistor and to the MosFet
has been without difficulty and fruitful.

Is there really any need to duplicate with "video"
what has already been done?

Yes, it is indeed possible to "tune" any circuit by a
variety of means (some unconventional) to obtain
a desired "output."

If you have found any "false" in the explanation it
has yet to be convincingly presented.

Educational resources are more abundant and accessible
today than ever before. Is there really any excuse for
"lack of understanding?"

sucahyo
09-23-2010, 04:12 AM
SeaMonkey, I doubt that timer driven radiant oscillator can reduce consumption with load. I tried and failed. Unless there is evidence that state otherwise I would say that timer driver radiant oscillator will always draw more current with load no matter what you do.


When this energy is released without being "loaded" it can climb to several hundred volts which may cause damage to the switching transistor or MosFet.Mine produce 800V on DMM, >1000V on AMM and yet I only break transistor if I spark the output. It break at least 5 fan that use the same power source but only 2 transistor break.


When such a circuit is operating into a "load" the current draw from the source can be quite small. Then, if the "load" is disconnected and the Radiant Spike is permitted to assume dangerous proportions the transistor or the MosFet would function erratically and the current draw would increase until the device destroys itself. I have never seens such circuit other then SSG or mine. What I have seen is higher current consumption with low impedance load.

My 555 version transistor die because of heat when there is load. And I think any other timer driver radiant circuit transistor will heat up more with load because it consume more power / current with load. More power = more waste = more heat.


You seems to think that what I show you on my posted video is the normal operation of a timer driver radiant circuit. It is not. Most of radiant circuit will consume more power with load. Your suggestion is false because my circuit proof that the same cheapskate transistor can operate differently just because it is used differently.


Give proof that the circuit you mention exists. Because that is what I am trying to achieve before I found stingo / MJT. You need to give proof because I never found such circuit exists.

I don't care if it is not your video.

SeaMonkey
09-23-2010, 11:56 PM
I doubt that timer driven radiant oscillator can reduce consumption with load. I tried and failed. Unless there is evidence that state otherwise I would say that timer driver radiant oscillator will always draw more current with load no matter what you do.

The goal of the timer driven radiant circuit is
not to be able to demonstrate more or less
current flow when loaded or unloaded; it is to
simply produce maximum radiant output in a
very predictable manner.


As for any circuit which will exhibit a change in
current flow with "loading" or "unloading"
it depends upon the type of circuit and how much
isolation exists between the source and the load.

Removing a "load" from a circuit to observe some
change in source current when dealing with a
self-resonant RF configuration can be very
unpredictable. Depending upon how well laid out
the circuit is; what sort of distributed inductance
and capacitance (stray) is present and the
frequency of operation. Standing Waves can
develop in the wiring which may result in very
unusual observations.


Mine produce 800V on DMM, >1000V on AMM and yet I only break transistor if I spark the output. It break at least 5 fan that use the same power source but only 2 transistor break.

The susceptibility to "breakage" will be dependent upon the
voltage and current ratings of the device. For minimal
switching losses it is customary to use a device with the
lowest voltage ratings, consistent with circuit parameters,
in order to utilize a device with maximum conductivity.


I have never seen such circuit other then SSG or mine. What I have seen is higher current consumption with low impedance load.


That would be a normal situation it would seem; a lower
impedance would result in an increased current flow.


My 555 version transistor die because of heat when there is load. And I think any other timer driver radiant circuit transistor will heat up more with load because it consume more power / current with load. More power = more waste = more heat.

Would this be a case of "overload?" Is the load
causing more current to flow than the circuit
is capable of providing without overheating?

Is the transistor being adequately driven to
saturation for minimal switching losses?


You seems to think that what I show you on my posted video is the normal operation of a timer driver radiant circuit. It is not. Most of radiant circuit will consume more power with load. Your suggestion is false because my circuit proof that the same cheapskate transistor can operate differently just because it is used differently.


Whether a circuit will consume more or less
power when "loaded" depends upon the nature
of the load and how it is coupled to the circuit
in question. In a laboratory setting where such
determinations are made great pains are gone to
in order to assure that the circuit operates without
any "anomolies" and that the "load" is seen as
purely "resistive" and is properly matched to rule
out the formation of "reflections" and "standing
waves."

A "breadboarded" circuit, or a "clipped" circuit may
have large amounts of distributed inductance and
capacitance (stray) which will cause very odd circuit
behavior.

Without knowing precisely what is taking place within
all of the wiring it will be very easy to come to erroneous
conclusions. Particularly when dealing with "Radiant"
energy and Radio Frequency waves.

I am a firm believer in using "cheapskate" transistors
by the way. Using the least expensive of devices is
good policy.


Give proof that the circuit you mention exists. Because that is what I am trying to achieve before I found stingo / MJT. You need to give proof because I never found such circuit exists.

I don't care if it is not your video.


The most common type of circuit which will demonstrate
excessive current flow when "unloaded" or when "mis-
matched" to the load is a Radio Frequency Amplifier
and its associated Antenna.

When a "mis-match" exists between the Amplifier and
the Antenna a large standing wave develops which
will cause excessive current flow in the Amplifier.

Once the Antenna is "tuned" to present a proper
impedance to the Amplifier and the Standing Wave
dissipates, the Amplifier current flow is minimal.

If you've ever dealt with a Radio Transmitter and
its Antenna Coupler then you've already seen that
kind of circuit.

SeaMonkey
09-24-2010, 12:17 AM
You have successfully derailed this thread away from
the Bedini chargers - get on topic or move to a
different thread.

Aaron has requested that all discussion not directly
related to the topic be carried on in other locations.

John_K
09-24-2010, 02:32 AM
OK folks,

The R-Charge Tesla Solar Power Amplifier (TSPA) has been on the market for some time now and I guess a lot of people have bought one.

I'd like to hear some feedback from the people that have one.

What model do you have? Likes? Dislikes? Any issues?

I've posted on this thread some of my feedback so far, but to save you from trudging through the thread...

I have a 10A model. I'm using a 24V 200W PV to charge a 12V bank. This configuration I think works the best, as it makes good use of low ambient light conditions. It comes on as soon as it is daylight and will put a charge into the batteries until the sun goes down - rain, hail or shine.

I haven't done any comparitive testing against any other type of charge controller, but I am pretty happy with its performance so far. I haven't tried to rejuvenate any junk batteries yet as I have other "home brew" chargers/rejuvenators that do a great job of that.

All in all, I'm pretty happy with it.

:cheers:

John K.

sucahyo
09-24-2010, 02:32 AM
Seamonkey, I am expecting you to show video for a timer driven radiant circuit that reduce current consumption with a load like a battery. Can you post the video?

The only clue you mention is:
If the base drive (in the case of a transistor) or the gate drive (for a MosFet) can be stabilized and isolated from loading effects then the current draw of the circuit should be minimal under load.

And then:
In order to protect the transistor or MosFet from damage it would be necessary to always have a "load" connected to the circuit in order to safely dissipate the Radiant Spike.

When such a circuit is operating into a "load" the current draw from the source can be quite small. Then, if the "load" is disconnected and the Radiant Spike is permitted to assume dangerous proportions the transistor or the MosFet would function erratically and the current draw would increase until the device destroys itself. This destruction may occur suddenly or it may take several minutes during which time the transistor or MosFet would get very hot.

I never see a circuit that can do that. Can you at least provide a diagram of
"such a circuit"? I am expecting radiant circuit, not RF amplifier.

BTW, my transistor on previous video is TIP31C & TIP32C with rating of 100V. It can lit neon bulb with voltage reading at 380V. Without load it may be go beyond 1000V, surely already way beyond their spesification.

r-charge is a model for anyone trying to build their own radiant charger. They will read this thread sooner or later. so providing correct information is important. And I think you, Seamonkey, provide wrong information.

SeaMonkey
09-24-2010, 03:41 AM
Seamonkey, I am expecting you to show video for a timer driven radiant circuit that reduce current consumption with a load like a battery. Can you post the video?

The only clue you mention is:


And then:


I never see a circuit that can do that. Can you at least provide a diagram of
"such a circuit"? I am expecting radiant circuit, not RF amplifier.

BTW, my transistor on previous video is TIP31C & TIP32C with rating of 100V. It can lit neon bulb with voltage reading at 380V. Without load it may be go beyond 1000V, surely already way beyond their spesification.

r-charge is a model for anyone trying to build their own radiant charger. They will read this thread sooner or later. so providing correct information is important. And I think you, Seamonkey, provide wrong information.

The Radiant Circuits to which I refer are indeed
battery charging or rejuvenating circuits.

The Inductor is heavy wire with a very small DC
resistance. Inductance (ferrite or powdered iron)
ranging from 100 uH to 500 uH.

The Pulse Width has been "tuned" to maximize
the energy content of the Radiant Spike.

Each Radiant Spike is capable of delivering more
than 30 Amperes to the battery being charged
or rejuvenated. In some cases the intensity of
the Spike can approach 100 Amperes.

This is with a MosFet circuit powered by a 12 Volt
source.

If your circuits are "surviving" exposure to the
unloaded Radiant Spike then either:
(a) the Spike has little power
or
(b) the impedance of your coil is very high
which prevents the spike from being destructive.

When operating Radiant Circuits which have been
optimized to produce very powerful Spikes it is never
a good idea to remove the load.

Mark
09-24-2010, 02:42 PM
How can this be said any simpler Seamonkey, SHOW US THE CIRCUIT!!!

nvisser
09-24-2010, 03:15 PM
What is wrong with you people. The man probably dont build circuits anymore as he built this things already with valves before transistors was available and as he stated there was no video cameras then. He has posted a good circuit on this forum .Just go search for it and built it.
I also posted one that he helped me with.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6176-battery-desulfators.html

SeaMonkey
09-24-2010, 10:20 PM
What is wrong with you people. The man probably dont build circuits anymore as he built this things already with valves before transistors was available and as he stated there was no video cameras then. He has posted a good circuit on this forum .Just go search for it and built it.
I also posted one that he helped me with.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6176-battery-desulfators.html

That would be a good place to start.

Frankly, the topic here deserves to be "restored" to
the subject at hand - the Bedini Charger.

All questions related to other Radiant matters are
best handled in other threads. No need for any more
"distractions" here.

Your cooperation will be greatly appreciated.

Mark
09-25-2010, 02:49 AM
Hello John K

The last I heard the solar charges were all sold out do you know if they are readily available again?

Also Aaron posted a while back about a new product coming out but no one has elaborated about it, any news on this product yet. What is it and when will it be on the market to purchase?

Thanks Mark

P.S. I am looking into the possibility of rejuvenating 6 volt golf cart batteries and am wondering what would be a fair price to charge for the service. Is anyone currently doing this or what are anyones thoughts on the charges for this. The gold course that I am a member at currently sells there "used up" batteries to a scrap yard for $18.00 dollars. My thoughts were somewhere in the $50.00 to $75.00 range.

sucahyo
09-25-2010, 03:02 AM
What is wrong with you people. The man probably dont build circuits anymore as he built this things already with valves before transistors was available and as he stated there was no video cameras then. He has posted a good circuit on this forum .Just go search for it and built it.
I also posted one that he helped me with.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6176-battery-desulfators.htmlHe post wrong information. Would your circuit work like SeaMonkey describe? Current consumption reduce with load? Or the way he put it, draw an insane amount of current without a load?

Has anyone tested the draw and input current for these units? I would love to know that too.

Aaron
09-25-2010, 03:24 AM
Hello John K

The last I heard the solar charges were all sold out do you know if they are readily available again?

Also Aaron posted a while back about a new product coming out but no one has elaborated about it, any news on this product yet. What is it and when will it be on the market to purchase?

Thanks Mark

There have been a couple varieties of chargers
based on different switching methods and one that was already being sold
was one that I thought was new. There are so many developments
happening out there it is hard to keep up on them all and EnergenX will
probably be the first to post about anything them in the press releases
on their homepage.

John has some * EXCITING * things cooking and it is related
to the chargers. Any news or details will be theirs to tell and again will
probably be posted on the EnergenX homepage and of course all the
dealers pages when info is released.

I wish I could say more at this point.

Tassie Mike
09-25-2010, 11:47 PM
Hi Aron and all!
Lots of good thoughts going on!

I am NOT talking about Banks or Banking here --Just want to see if I can rationalize some of the thinking here :-)
"A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."
~~~Dresden James

Beware of the "FACTS" told to you by Governments, Banks, Scientists and Big Companies, be prepared to to use your grey matter!

There are things happening right infront of you, right now.

Do you think it is right that Banks should charge you for the privilage of withdrawing YOUR money?


I really hope you can see my point about thinking here
Cheer all

Mike in Tassie

Tassie Mike
09-25-2010, 11:48 PM
OOPS

Sorry Aaron :-( !! :-)

SkyWatcher
09-26-2010, 12:40 AM
Hi folks, Hi Tassie Mike, yes please start a new thread along those lines of thinking, it will take off like a rocket with many these days suffering in some way due to these imbalanced systems that have been in place for some time. Many here already know what you speak of is directly related to energy devices and its dissemination.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:

Aaron
09-26-2010, 04:05 AM
P.S. I am looking into the possibility of rejuvenating 6 volt golf cart batteries and am wondering what would be a fair price to charge for the service. Is anyone currently doing this or what are anyones thoughts on the charges for this. The gold course that I am a member at currently sells there "used up" batteries to a scrap yard for $18.00 dollars. My thoughts were somewhere in the $50.00 to $75.00 range.

Mark,

If you're not locked in or completely dedicated to just rejuvenating them
for the golf course, I have a couple of ideas. Let me know and I'll post them
here.

Aaron
09-26-2010, 04:11 AM
He post wrong information. Would your circuit work like SeaMonkey describe? Current consumption reduce with load? Or the way he put it, draw an insane amount of current without a load?

I would love to know that too.

Sucahyo,

SeaMonkey started a thread here to address your questions:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6464-ongoing-radiant-discussion.html

Mark
09-26-2010, 11:29 AM
Mark,

If you're not locked in or completely dedicated to just rejuvenating them
for the golf course, I have a couple of ideas. Let me know and I'll post them
here.

I'm all ears Aaron fire away!

Mark

p.s. Are the solar charges back in stock again?

Aaron
09-26-2010, 07:08 PM
I'm all ears Aaron fire away!

Mark

p.s. Are the solar charges back in stock again?

Not sure about the inventory at the moment. Can find out
during the work week.

If the golf course gets $18 per battery from the scrap yard,
is that from the scrap yard coming to haul them away or
does the golf course take them to the scrap yard?

Unless the golf course has someone that is buddy buddy with
someone at the scrap yard, should be easy to work something
out - especially if you're a member at the course.

If the golf course hauls them away themselves, you could offer
$17 (or less) for every battery they have. You haul the batts for them and rejuvenate
what you can. Since you're doing the work of hauling them you
can get them for less than $18. (if they usually take the batts themselves)
Sell the duds to the scrap yard for $18 and sell
the rejuvenated ones for a decent price either back to the
golf course or advertise them on craigslist or something.
Not sure what to charge - maybe 1/2 the price of a new one?

If for $18 the scrap yard comes to pick them up, then offer the
golf course $19 (or $18 if as a member they will do a deal with you),
and do the same. Rejuvenate what you can, sell the duds for $18
to the scrapyard to just get your money back on those and sell
the rejuvenated ones for a good price back to the golf course or
put them on craigs list.

Many golf courses to my understanding use leasing companies to lease
the golf carts since they don't want to deal with battery maintenance.
It is that big of an issue. The leasing company replaces batteries as
needed - so if there are golf courses that deal with the batteries, then
you're in a good position.

If you find the leasing companies that lease to golf courses, you can
probably get all their "bad" batteries too in the same way.

jamara
11-09-2010, 09:23 AM
Many golf courses to my understanding use leasing companies to lease
the golf carts since they don't want to deal with battery maintenance.
It is that big of an issue. The leasing company replaces batteries as
needed - so if there are golf courses that deal with the batteries, then
you're in a good position.

I do agree with aaron.

John_K
11-20-2010, 09:42 AM
Hey folks,

check this out, my latest OTG applications using the TSPA and Bedini SS SG setup.

YouTube - Mini Solar OTG Setup (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo4dHK0mL-8)

:cheers:
John K.

citfta
11-20-2010, 11:53 AM
Hi John,

Great job! That is a nice setup showing what can be done with what we now can get from Rick and John B. Sorry you couldn't get to the conference. I was looking forward to meeting you.

Later, Carroll

John_K
11-20-2010, 12:23 PM
Hi John,

Great job! That is a nice setup showing what can be done with what we now can get from Rick and John B. Sorry you couldn't get to the conference. I was looking forward to meeting you.

Later, Carroll

Hi Carroll,

Thanks! So far it's running great.

You'll get a chance to meet me at the next conference in July 2011. I'll be assisting and presenting as well.

Bring a friend, you won't be disappointed!

:cheers:
John K.

Renaissance Charge July 2011 Alternative Energy Conference (http://r-charge.com/July2011.html)

aussieaussieaussie
11-22-2010, 09:40 AM
I have looked up and down this thread and I still can't find an answer to a question that has been posted many many times.

Has anyone (especially the 'dealers') used 2 identical setups, one with normal charger and one with bedini solar charger and recorded the difference in output.

And when I mean test I mean a real work test not a multimeter on the charge side misreading the PWM?

This product has been out for months, how come nobody has tested it in a real world case? How could a dealer be selling this device in good conscious if you haven't tested it against other models that are 1/3 the price?

Awaiting YOUR RESULTS!

Ozy

pedroxime
12-07-2010, 12:51 PM
Hi I Have A Direct Experience With R-charge Renaissance, More Than One Month Ago I Paypayed A 2a-12 Charger And They Didnt Contact Me , Dident Deliver The Product And Doesnt Answer Emails

Rick Friedrick Is A Robber

Aaron
12-07-2010, 05:23 PM
Everything can be ordered from Tesla Chargers | World's Most Efficient, Effective & Advanced Battery Chargers (http://www.teslachargers.com)

Rick's company got swamped throughout the conference time so they're
still catching up.

Anyway, at Tesla Chargers, I answer all emails within 24 hours. I'm going to
be changing the phone number on the website. That is a skype number and
I have constant problems with the messages so will post a regular land line
number in the near future. Anyway, emails come directly to me.

n84dafun
12-07-2010, 06:53 PM
I ordered a Tesla 10A Solar Tracker III Sept 30th, and they have not replied to any of my emails for the status of my order. If there was a backorder problem, they should have stated that when I ordered. Otherwise, I would have invested my money somewhere else. I will complain to Paypal if they continue to ignore my emails. How hard is it to reply to an email?

Brian

Hi I Have A Direct Experience With R-charge Renaissance, More Than One Month Ago I Paypayed A 2a-12 Charger And They Didnt Contact Me , Dident Deliver The Product And Doesnt Answer Emails

Rick Friedrick Is A Robber

John_Bedini
12-08-2010, 01:55 AM
I really do not take care of Ricks problems. But I can tell you everything got screw up during the conference. And Yes we do wait for parts and yes you will get what is yours so give a little break. You both could talk to Tom and the problem would be solved. Why sit and complain just call Tom

Rick is no crook and you don't even know if your order got misplaced.
Give us a little break here guys we are way backordered on these things.
John B






I ordered a Tesla 10A Solar Tracker III Sept 30th, and they have not replied to any of my emails for the status of my order. If there was a backorder problem, they should have stated that when I ordered. Otherwise, I would have invested my money somewhere else. I will complain to Paypal if they continue to ignore my emails. How hard is it to reply to an email?

Brian

ashtweth
12-09-2010, 01:44 AM
Well, John K, Rick and JB take a bow. I have had the charger working for over 2months now non stop.We have revived 5 batteries and counting. I have been charging our solar battery and using it to run Rick's SG fan to stay cool and charge the lead acid batteries we use in the camera for the Panacea productions.

Doesn't sound like much,but its saving energy. Wanna try the Australian summer guys?:rolleyes: :D Now argue all you want about the price and compare it, but what about the extra stuff from its ability to do this?

Never had an overcharge light come on, every battery has been back like its been hit with a sledge hammer.

Never seen any thing like this JB. I have just let this thing stay on non stop.

Ash

gmeast
12-09-2010, 11:32 PM
Hi all,

This has been a very interesting thread to watch. I have about half a dozen stand alone customers who's systems I installed for them or assisted them.

There is one thing that outperforms all I have read here regarding batery charging and battery life ... and pertains specifically to flooded deep-cycle lead-acid batteries.

If you DO NOT extract any more than 25% of the (low) Amp-Hour rating for your battery bank (cycle off the top and never deep cycle) then your bank will last a very long time. Staying BELOW the maximum discharge rate by a factor of .5 is also a must. You do this by having a very "wide" bank of batteries (several parallel battery series' ... it's a little $$$). Two of my installations are still on the original batteries ... both 48V, one bank is 24 x 6V (10 year old Vikings) and 32 x 6V (8 year old Tojans). The owners claim the performance is as they were when new. No special chargers. They simply followed the 'usage' rules I outlined for them. I did include a low end, $35 de-sulfating circuit on each bank. The 24 battery bank uses C-60s. The 32 battery bank uses an Outback charge controller with a power-point management feature that balances the voltage and current and optimizes the charge current to the batteries for the given real-time power being produced by the panel array. RV Power Products's charge controllers do the same thing. Everyone is doing that now it seems.

Proper power usage and management of a battery bank just can not be disputed as the single most influential factor toward achieving long battery life ... not fancy controllers or magic 'black' boxes. Ask those folks who actually do it and LIVE off of and rely on their batteries.

Anyway ... experience speaks.

ashtweth
12-10-2010, 02:30 AM
Greg thats very helpful info thanks a lot man

Ash

F.Nunes
12-16-2010, 07:18 PM
I've had similar experiences of them not responding !

John_K
12-16-2010, 07:26 PM
I've had similar experiences of them not responding !

Email them again. Rick has hired a new guy, Dan. He has been very responsive to my emails.

Or as John B said, just call them up.

:cheers:
John K.

Aaron
12-16-2010, 08:24 PM
By the way, if anyone wants motor kits, you can order them from
teslachargers.com - just email info at teslachargers.com

Just mention what you want and you'll be emailed a quote for the
motor and/or chargers with shipping to your area.

You will also get some free bonuses like ebook packages, etc... for
each order.

And by ordering through teslachargers.com (members of this forum),
proceeds will also be donated to help support Energetic Forum. That goes
for the chargers as well and not just the kits.

When ordering, just mention that you want a portion of the sale to go to
Energetic Forum.

ashtweth
12-16-2010, 11:35 PM
Aaron these sort of things really,help,i have always been for kits or services that put back into the movements (we need it), that why i always supported you and Peter as you guys give back,this is certainly needed from where i am coming from trust me on that. Ill put that description and link in the docs my friend. Good show Aaron.

Ash

n84dafun
12-17-2010, 04:58 AM
Yes, Dan was responsive. I finally got an email response from the company...from Dan. In fact he emailed me twice and apologized for the delay, and got an ETA--about 3 to 4 weeks. Hoping it will be worth the money and wait (will be about 2 months from when I originally ordered it).

They should change the estimated time of delivery on their ordering page. It's kind of misleading.

I have a 45 watt solar panel and two 6-Volt deep cycle batteries and a couple auto batteries waiting for it.

-brian

Email them again. Rick has hired a new guy, Dan. He has been very responsive to my emails.

Or as John B said, just call them up.

:cheers:
John K.

pedroxime
01-19-2011, 05:23 PM
It seems Renaissance now is a conventions company, I dont know why they have a site selling things if nobody answer emails , you pay something and they dont deliver, nothing nothing

Im tired of this people, please close your site and open other for conventions and dont make us loose our time and money

Bit's-n-Bytes
01-19-2011, 06:03 PM
It seems Renaissance now is a conventions company, I dont know why they have a site selling things if nobody answer emails , you pay something and they dont deliver, nothing nothing

Im tired of this people, please close your site and open other for conventions and dont make us loose our time and money

Have you tried to call RicK @

Sales/Support
(208) 772-4514
(989) 388-2814

The first number is also available on Skype.

EMCSQ
02-28-2011, 02:40 PM
Are these Solar tracker Chargers available?
Only for US citizen
or also Europeans?

Aaron
02-28-2011, 06:30 PM
Anyone can contact us through Tesla Chargers | World's Most Efficient, Effective & Advanced Battery Chargers (http://www.teslachargers.com)

We answer every email within 24 hours.

Stephen Brown
02-28-2011, 10:09 PM
It seems Renaissance now is a conventions company, I dont know why they have a site selling things if nobody answer emails , you pay something and they dont deliver, nothing nothing

Im tired of this people, please close your site and open other for conventions and dont make us loose our time and money

Not my experience! I've ordered several things in the last few months and they have arrived right away.
When I have called, I have always talked with a friendly and helpful person.

Stephen

Electric Kiwi
07-25-2011, 04:02 AM
This is great technology, any problems I have had with order they have always sorted out. Call them.

Aaron
07-25-2011, 04:04 AM
At Tesla Chargers | World's Most Efficient, Effective & Advanced Battery Chargers (http://www.teslachargers.com) we always reply within 24 hours and
have great customer service.

Keyos
07-29-2011, 03:04 PM
Hello everyone,
this is my first message on this forum, i liked reading this thread about this r-charge/bedini solar charge controller, but at the beginning we was talking about the "Tesla Solar Power Amplifier" product line, but actually there is only the "Tesla Solar Tracker III" product line available on r-charge web site, so i was wondering if the "Tesla Solar Tracker III" is an evolution of the earlier model.
If it's the evolution of the previous solar power amplifier i wonder if it still employ the capacitive discharge/decoupling pulsing method to radiantly charge the battery bank or if it's using a different solution, maybe inductive spike like an ssg.

Probably has already been said but i don't remember, i am sorry to ask again, but if i chose to use one of this chargers, instead of a regular mppt one i am already using in my off-grid house battery bank, i can leave the inverter that power my house connected together to the r-charge/bedini solar charger on the same battery bank or i have to implement a battery switching system on 2 battery banks like i think i should do if i would use a monopole (maybe a 10 pole) energizer?

I ask that because i was learning that this kind radiant energy don't like regular electron flow so i suppose that an inverter powering loads and so causing an electron discharge flow from the charging battery could possibily interfer with the process or maybe the big capacitor bank inside the inverter could eventually absorb the radiant spike and allow only a regular DC current charge on the battery bank cancelling all the benefits of a radiant charge to the batteries.

mbrownn
07-30-2011, 04:31 AM
I cant comment about your other questions but charging radiantly and discharging conventionally a lead acid battery at the same time causes the plates to break up.

3MTAE
08-21-2011, 12:54 AM
Anyone want to buy my Tesla Solar from Bedini Co. ?

Its used..but its in mint condition. did not find it useful at all. the claims of producing a charge in cloudy weather are nothing more than the same low charge of any solar charge in same conditions.

Not surprisingly I came back to this thread hoping to see a **** ton of positive reviews about how this unit was doing miraclous things and the world is now saved.

Bull****. ITs overpriced and nothing at all special in anyway . Im lucky enough to have bought one to know for sure what all this crap hype is about.

Now aarons selling some miracle product for you health. its funny.. he's totally supporting it yet he just found out about it... how many years have you taken the stuff ? a few months tops. but its a miracle.

Contact me if you want the smallest model of Bedini Tesla Solar shipped ASAP. YOu wont have to wait 3 months like those who bought direct did. No price deal though. just a few bucks extra for shipping. I can buy 3 solar controllers and get the same results.

If your loving your Bedini Post about it. ITs been a long while now. Im not.

Now they got Free Energy Generatin T- Shirts!! ha for 35 bucks! Show me the Generation!! show me the Free Energy!! cause I buy your products and build crazy devices and I still PAY for my energy.

You guys should be soooo very ashamed, but hey. its what you do.

John_K
08-21-2011, 01:45 AM
Anyone want to buy my Tesla Solar from Bedini Co. ?

Its used..but its in mint condition. did not find it useful at all. the claims of producing a charge in cloudy weather are nothing more than the same low charge of any solar charge in same conditions.

Not surprisingly I came back to this thread hoping to see a **** ton of positive reviews about how this unit was doing miraclous things and the world is now saved.

Bull****. ITs overpriced and nothing at all special in anyway . Im lucky enough to have bought one to know for sure what all this crap hype is about.

Now aarons selling some miracle product for you health. its funny.. he's totally supporting it yet he just found out about it... how many years have you taken the stuff ? a few months tops. but its a miracle.

Contact me if you want the smallest model of Bedini Tesla Solar shipped ASAP. YOu wont have to wait 3 months like those who bought direct did. No price deal though. just a few bucks extra for shipping. I can buy 3 solar controllers and get the same results.

If your loving your Bedini Post about it. ITs been a long while now. Im not.

Now they got Free Energy Generatin T- Shirts!! ha for 35 bucks! Show me the Generation!! show me the Free Energy!! cause I buy your products and build crazy devices and I still PAY for my energy.

You guys should be soooo very ashamed, but hey. its what you do.

What model is it? Can you post a picture? How much?

I have the original 10A (RC-S10A-12/24) from Renaissance Charge and love it. I've restored many car batteries with it with FREE ENERGY from the sun. It charges from dawn until dusk, sure it puts out more in full sun than in shade than low light. Yes I had to pay for the solar panel. Energy is not "FREE", you have to pay to get it.

:cheers:
John K.

3MTAE
08-21-2011, 05:45 PM
RC-S10A-12/24 - Like I said it's used but in Mint Condition.

No doubt. The Sun is Free Energy.

And it Cost Money to Harvest that Energy,.

So why the Hell are We Glorifying someone who is Selling SEVERLY Overpriced Generic Solar Controllers to Obtain that Energy:??

Anyone??

Is it cause Bedini Made it??

He's Contribution to Free Energy is Making it Cost 3 times more Expensive to Get it !!

Somebody want to Empirically show why Bedini is not a scam artist?

Anyone??? Post your Results.

It's Yours. Im planning on Harvesting MY Free...ahem.. SOLAR energy as Cheaply as Possible.

Bedini is scam artist. And to Link HIM to Solar Energy is Ridiculous..

IS THAT what the 35 dollar FREE ENERGY GENERATION T- Shirt is ll about ??

Bedini's 3X More Expensive Way of Harvesting It ??

In other words... MAKe me an Offer

No less than the original cost plus shipping.

You know I couldn't of tampered with it As Bedini Coated it in Epoxy Resin So no one Could see what's inside... (scam!)

Trust me folks. It's been out there a LONG TIME. No one is singing praises except those "senior" members who, conviently enough, SELL THEM.

Like I said.. I don't hate you guys,, you gotta do what you gotta do. But You aint getting away with it.

I hope newbies coming here now,, just like myself .. can use there own logic.

Peace. LOve and Much Blessings. I believe Free Energy is real...IT Aint Here Though! 1000's of these sold. I guess my ego wasn't too Big to Admit It was A Scam.

YOu could test for yourself in WAY LESS TIME by buying mine.. I will get you yours as fast as you want.

In Summary.. IF you just LIKE Bedini.. and really want to coat his pockets.. then Buy AWAY.

But you can get THE SAME RESULTS FOR WAY LESS MONEY!!

And IT would only be Ethical For some of These Members To Admit That!

I have no respect for people like This.

Gluck. and please reply with offers If you are inclined, as I was, to Experience it for yourself.

SHalom! ha.

3MTAE
08-21-2011, 05:58 PM
I paid 440$ for my model.

I was one of the first to buy them off the R-Charge Website.

It is Called - Tesla SOlar Power Amplifier

Probably had to change the name cause It doesn't amplify anything. Idk.

I will take 500$ that includes shipping. but I would take 450$ if i had too.

Heck. I might take 400$. 500$ is fair. It's THE ORIGINAL.

YOu know .. the one Bedini Claimed at the time he had to " Tune Down a bit " so he " wouldn't cause trouble" or something like that.

Maybe it is still just " tuned down a bit " and Im just not able to see the results.

Anyway. It's right here. I could post a pic but It's a hassel for me. But i will for serious inquiries.

John_K
08-21-2011, 09:36 PM
3MTAE,

You had better be careful about who you are calling defamatory names unless you want to end up in court!

A scam artist is someone who takes money and does not deliver what they advertised or claimed.

Do you have proof of what you have posted?

I have found that the model I paid for does exactly what is advertised. It has also brought back many batteries that could not be charged with a generic battery charger. These are batteries that would have costed hundreds of dollars to replace. It has already paid for itself so I have no problem paying what I did for it.

No one is glorifying anyone here. I'm just stating what I have seen.

Have you considered that everyone else who has purchased this product is actually happy with it?

Can you prove that you can get the same results for way less money? Can you stand by your claims?

And why are you charging so much for a used unit? A brand new unit with 1 year warranty is $350 plus shipping, which to Australia is $48.30 which is about as much as you would pay, much less if you are closer.

:cheers:
John K.

ashtweth
08-22-2011, 01:46 AM
I paid 440$ for my model.

I was one of the first to buy them off the R-Charge Website.

It is Called - Tesla SOlar Power Amplifier

Probably had to change the name cause It doesn't amplify anything. Idk.

I will take 500$ that includes shipping. but I would take 450$ if i had too.

Heck. I might take 400$. 500$ is fair. It's THE ORIGINAL.

YOu know .. the one Bedini Claimed at the time he had to " Tune Down a bit " so he " wouldn't cause trouble" or something like that.

Maybe it is still just " tuned down a bit " and Im just not able to see the results.

Anyway. It's right here. I could post a pic but It's a hassel for me. But i will for serious inquiries.

If you can find a safe way to get it out there and tune it back up that would be more helpful, we cant change what is done but can we change the future? There are many contradictions and impressions around, but the future is the same if we digress. Like cancer, it is a wake up call, treat it as such and let work towards finding ways instead of slowing down.:)

Regards
Ash

3MTAE
08-22-2011, 04:20 PM
john k -

A scam artist is someone who, just weeks before a product line is due to come out, posts a video showing said new technology producing over unity and saying he will provide this technology, also stating he will have to " tune this down a bit" to " not cause trouble"

if you think you got a case i'd love to have our lawyers meet. its funny as hell...

People like me, we speak the truth, always respond to what is posted about, you guys deflect everything and make threats.

Have I thought of the fact people might be happy?? Let's see... I am not happy... few people reporting their happiness with any kinda data to back it up..etc.. those that sell them are very very happy.

Yes. I can prove its cheaper. BUy a regular solar controller and standard battery desulfator. you can almost buy two sets.

Why am I charging so much?? I bought the same model you did... you should know it cost 440$ . and I waited 3 months.

YOu will not wait. I charge 60 bucks for that convience. But I would take 450 and that includes the shipping cost I would have to pay for.

Ash -

I couldn't understand a thing you were trying to say. sorry.

John_K
08-22-2011, 09:12 PM
3MTAE,

You need to stop twisting people's words around.

No one said that it was an overunity device. What was said was "here is the input, here is the output. Draw your own conclusions."

I did not threaten you, I just gave you some advice. Do with it what you will it does not bother me. I have not deflected anything, I've only posted what I've seen.

I asked if everyone else was happy. Re-read my post. If you are going to quote me, please do so accurately.

Yes, I sell these chargers as well as all of the other Renaissance Charge products. Why? Because they all do what they are claimed to do. I would not sell a product that doesn't do what it is claimed.

Let me know when you have found a product that is better and cheaper than this one, that is a solar battery charger that can also rejuvenate batteries that can not take a charge with a generic unit. That is also a solar battery charger that can also charge batteries in marginal light.

Post all the details so I can draw my own conclusions and decide if I want to sell it.

:cheers:
John K.

3MTAE
08-23-2011, 02:04 AM
Twisting words around??

I never qouted you either. Could you explain that??

John Bedini posted a video on Youtube weeks before the release of his new Tesla Switch Solar Amplifier. If you don't recall the video it is referenced in this forum, I believe earlier in this particular thread...

What John did was post a video showing his new Tesla Switch Solar Amplifier producing Over Unity. During that video he remarked how he would probably have to tune it down a bit ... he was showing nearly 3 times Input to Output ....

John Quickly took the Video down ... but obviously many people saw it and commented about it and so began the HYPE.

It was obviously a ploy and in retrospect probably faked.

He knows people are looking to him and he knows posting a video like that will instantly make people want to buy the product. He implied these Chargers as OverUnity with a well placed marketing strategy.

That covers the Over Unity claim.


In my opinion Telling someone they could end up in court for posting on a public forum is ridiculous.

You sell them and stand by them. They are unique. IF you want the two step process you can save 250$ + shipping.

this forum has produced nothing except for entrepernaural oppurtunities for guys like you and aaron etc etc...

Big whoop. Bedini made a solar controller and a generic battery desulfator into one.

I think people deserve to know its not that great of thing and can be done for cheaper.

The nail in the coffin is you yourself say there's no OU claims and it just does what it says it does... Bedini has the Circuits coated in a Epoxy resin so no one can see what's inside??

is he hiding some secret formula? no. because his device does nothing out of the ordinary.

is he hiding the fact there is nothing in this device worth justifying the price??

probably.

Does what it claims. That is true. But amongst many scam-like moves by Bedini posting that Over Unity VIdeo just before release is manipulative and certaintly makes him and others alot of money for devices that are rather generic.

IF your out there reading this Just know what your buying. You can save alot of money on much much cheaper desulfators and you can simply use an extra step to get the same benefit of the Solar models until someone else combines the two.

That's all I got.

I have my mine for sale. Just look above for details.

Love and BLessings

John_K
08-23-2011, 06:33 AM
Twisting words around??

I never qouted you either. Could you explain that??

John Bedini posted a video on Youtube weeks before the release of his new Tesla Switch Solar Amplifier. If you don't recall the video it is referenced in this forum, I believe earlier in this particular thread...

What John did was post a video showing his new Tesla Switch Solar Amplifier producing Over Unity. During that video he remarked how he would probably have to tune it down a bit ... he was showing nearly 3 times Input to Output ....

John Quickly took the Video down ... but obviously many people saw it and commented about it and so began the HYPE.

It was obviously a ploy and in retrospect probably faked.

He knows people are looking to him and he knows posting a video like that will instantly make people want to buy the product. He implied these Chargers as OverUnity with a well placed marketing strategy.

That covers the Over Unity claim.


In my opinion Telling someone they could end up in court for posting on a public forum is ridiculous.

You sell them and stand by them. They are unique. IF you want the two step process you can save 250$ + shipping.

this forum has produced nothing except for entrepernaural oppurtunities for guys like you and aaron etc etc...

Big whoop. Bedini made a solar controller and a generic battery desulfator into one.

I think people deserve to know its not that great of thing and can be done for cheaper.

The nail in the coffin is you yourself say there's no OU claims and it just does what it says it does... Bedini has the Circuits coated in a Epoxy resin so no one can see what's inside??

is he hiding some secret formula? no. because his device does nothing out of the ordinary.

is he hiding the fact there is nothing in this device worth justifying the price??

probably.

Does what it claims. That is true. But amongst many scam-like moves by Bedini posting that Over Unity VIdeo just before release is manipulative and certaintly makes him and others alot of money for devices that are rather generic.

IF your out there reading this Just know what your buying. You can save alot of money on much much cheaper desulfators and you can simply use an extra step to get the same benefit of the Solar models until someone else combines the two.

That's all I got.

I have my mine for sale. Just look above for details.

Love and BLessings

3MTAE,

I'm assuming you are directing this to me, even though you did not address your post.

Let's clear some things up here.

First, my post stated "Have you considered that everyone else who has purchased this product is actually happy with it?". You replied with "Have I thought of the fact people might be happy?? Let's see... I am not happy... few people reporting their happiness with any kinda data to back it up..etc.. those that sell them are very very happy."

It's clear that you are not happy, but that doesn't account for everyone else that has bought the same product and are actually happy with it. I have sold many of these chargers and not one of my customers has told me they are not happy with it.

Secondly, I easily recall the videos that John posted on Youtube - because I watched them again this morning. At no stage did John say that the device in the video was overunity. This is where you are twisting words. Yes, I saw the meters that showed the output meter was showing 3 times the pulse current of the current displayed on the lab power supply. You assumed that this means overunity. It was not faked as I have been able to replicate the same results. John did not imply that it was an overunity product, he said to "draw your own conclusions".

Thirdly, you started posting that you were not happy with what you bought. I don't have any issues with that. Once again, I have merely reported what I have seen from my own experience with the same product. I have not used this to attempt to gain sales or sway anyone's opinion. I let people make up their own mind with the information they are presented with. I don't think I'm being entreprenurial by just stating what I have seen. The fact that I sell the product does not make any difference to whether my batteries will charge or not.

Fourthly, Bedini pots all his products so people don't rip off his designs and illegally sell products that he has patented after many years of research and development. How many great products do you see on the market that come out as a cheap imitation a month or two later? How many inventors are walking around with holes in their shoes because they got ripped off?

Fifthly, I ask you again - post me details of a device that does what this does for a cheaper price. Or feel free to go and design, test, manufacture and and market your own. Then come back and tell me how much it cost you to do that. R&D is not like the lottery where you buy a ticket and you're a millionaire the next day. It takes years of research to get a product to the market, of which time you are paid nothing until someone buys your product.

Lastly, you said "Does what it claims. That is true." So what are you complaining about?

If that's all you got, then this is the end of the matter. Let people decide themselves if they want to believe someone who does not have the facts or can back up their claims, or someone else that has factual proof that the product lives up to what is claimed and advertised.

Godd luck in selling your unit.

:cheers:
John K.

LouiseRobinson
08-24-2011, 07:14 AM
There are so many solar-powered gadgets today. It is a big help for us especially in our electrical consumption, because there is no need for us to plug our gadgets on a socket when charging.

Earth 4 Energy Review (http://earth4energyreview101.com)

scratchrobot
08-24-2011, 12:20 PM
Twisting words around??

I never qouted you either. Could you explain that??

John Bedini posted a video on Youtube weeks before the release of his new Tesla Switch Solar Amplifier. If you don't recall the video it is referenced in this forum, I believe earlier in this particular thread...

What John did was post a video showing his new Tesla Switch Solar Amplifier producing Over Unity. During that video he remarked how he would probably have to tune it down a bit ... he was showing nearly 3 times Input to Output ....

John Quickly took the Video down ... but obviously many people saw it and commented about it and so began the HYPE.

It was obviously a ploy and in retrospect probably faked.

He knows people are looking to him and he knows posting a video like that will instantly make people want to buy the product. He implied these Chargers as OverUnity with a well placed marketing strategy.

That covers the Over Unity claim.


In my opinion Telling someone they could end up in court for posting on a public forum is ridiculous.

You sell them and stand by them. They are unique. IF you want the two step process you can save 250$ + shipping.

this forum has produced nothing except for entrepernaural oppurtunities for guys like you and aaron etc etc...

Big whoop. Bedini made a solar controller and a generic battery desulfator into one.

I think people deserve to know its not that great of thing and can be done for cheaper.

The nail in the coffin is you yourself say there's no OU claims and it just does what it says it does... Bedini has the Circuits coated in a Epoxy resin so no one can see what's inside??

is he hiding some secret formula? no. because his device does nothing out of the ordinary.

is he hiding the fact there is nothing in this device worth justifying the price??

probably.

Does what it claims. That is true. But amongst many scam-like moves by Bedini posting that Over Unity VIdeo just before release is manipulative and certaintly makes him and others alot of money for devices that are rather generic.

IF your out there reading this Just know what your buying. You can save alot of money on much much cheaper desulfators and you can simply use an extra step to get the same benefit of the Solar models until someone else combines the two.

That's all I got.

I have my mine for sale. Just look above for details.

Love and BLessings

Hi 3MTAE I share your opinion. In the video Bedini said that everyone should draw his own conclusion and there were people who believed that the device was ou and could be looped. At the time I also wanted to order a unit but now I'm glad I did not.

Regards

John_K
08-30-2011, 10:14 AM
Here is a testimonial from someone who purchased one of the Renaissance Charge Tesla Solar Trackers. Reproduced by permission.

"The Tesla Solar Tracker replaces the regular charge controller, I have a 24 volt 20amp one on my RV with 400 amp/hr batteries, works great, was even charging at nigh with a lighning storm going on. Had it hooked up before I put it on the RV to recover some old batteries that my other Bedini chargers couldn't take any higher in voltage and the solar charge controller pushed the voltage way higher. I love it, it pushes the 24 volt system on my RV to over 30 volts when in the desulphate mode. Can't wait to get a 48 volt one to replace my Xantrex MPPT on my 2000 watt house system, it's a good charge controller but it switches of in low light where the Bedini Tracker keeps going."

:cheers:
John K.

stonewater
08-30-2011, 08:59 PM
There is one very troubling detail in all of this:

The pricing of the various units.

Is there some reason that they must be so expensive?

The "common people" who could most benefit from
such devices are, for the time being, excluded by the
high cost.

Or, is there some plan to make the "plans" available
for the World?

In truth, the concepts employed in the device are
very easy to duplicate. Many who have given it
thought have already figured it out and are making
their own devices.

Now, that is a plan!

Because it is built by John at his shop, in america, by hand, one at a time. zantrex and morningstar are built in china, or at least sourced there. every charger built by them is built by hand. no machines stuffing boards, no wave soldering, all point to point soldering like a hi end audio amplifier.

no one complains about a 4.50 mocha from starbucks, I watch people walk in and out all day long with their preppie crack in hand. your charger will last you a lifetime.
:D