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View Full Version : Different idea for recharging primary battery in a bedini type system


tester16
08-01-2010, 09:49 PM
Hi everyone, I thought of a (hopefully) new way to recharge the primary, in which I am trying currently testing as of today. I have not seen this written in a post previously and thought this may be of use to somebody. If this is a repeat I apologize.

The idea goes as follows;
Essentially I have 2 diodes in series coming off of the collector, instead of 1 or more in parallel. The first diode goes to the charging battery as usual. In my setup the output is going to a in4001 with the stripe going away from the positive of the run battery. This I have read reduces current draw but i have yet to hookup a ammeter or oscilloscope in my configuration. In the second diode off the collector, I have the output going straight to the stripe on the diode on the positive run battery.

Basically, I did this to have the outputs going to the run battery out of phase. I did this in hopes of simulating a relay switching off and on the positive run battery because you cannot charge a battery while discharging.

I have been running this for a less than an hour after letting the batteries rest 5 minutes while reconfiguring my setup. While running my setup started with a my source batteries (2 SLA's in series) at 17.93 volts. My current voltage went up to 18.48 volts and is still slowly climbing.

I had a similar symptom once, however ac was present from a transformer hooked to my grounds and ruined my batteries.

Has anyone tried this with positive results?

If anyone has any questions, I will try to answer this with as much detail as possible. (Btw this is a 12/30volt fan running the Bedini circuit with 3 different grounds currently connected.) Thank you for your time.

tester16
08-02-2010, 12:08 AM
Results sine last post, without tuning the fan stopped at 21.34vdc. tried spinning the fan with not start until i decreased the resistance. I tuned until reading 18.03vdc. If fan stops again i will lower resistance until just above the lowest setting. If anyone else tries this, please post results to see if my idea has any merit. Thank you.

sucahyo
08-02-2010, 04:00 AM
Can you draw it? or at least rephrase?

Use word "direct the current to".

tester16
08-02-2010, 02:40 PM
I will try to add an attachment later today, as I don't have my usb cable on hand, however to rephrase there will be 2 diodes in series directing the current from the collector. The first diode will be directed to the charge batteries. The second diode will direct any leftover current/voltage directly to the primary battery or diode directing current away from the positive run battery.

My theory basically is that since pulsed dc is similar to AC, that perhaps the second half of the sine wave will be reversed. This may allow the run battery to be charged without destroying the internals.

If that is not the case, perhaps the second diode would change the timing of the pulse to be on when the transistor is in the off position. This would be basically making the run battery charge when current is cut off by the transistor. I hope this is a clearer explanation.

elias
08-03-2010, 04:44 AM
I will try to add an attachment later today, as I don't have my usb cable on hand, however to rephrase there will be 2 diodes in series directing the current from the collector. The first diode will be directed to the charge batteries. The second diode will direct any leftover current/voltage directly to the primary battery or diode directing current away from the positive run battery.

My theory basically is that since pulsed dc is similar to AC, that perhaps the second half of the sine wave will be reversed. This may allow the run battery to be charged without destroying the internals.

If that is not the case, perhaps the second diode would change the timing of the pulse to be on when the transistor is in the off position. This would be basically making the run battery charge when current is cut off by the transistor. I hope this is a clearer explanation.

Hi

Will not this short the charge battery? (the second diode)

sucahyo
08-03-2010, 05:31 AM
My theory basically is that since pulsed dc is similar to AC, that perhaps the second half of the sine wave will be reversed. This may allow the run battery to be charged without destroying the internals. I still can not understand. Maybe like this?
http://a.imageshack.us/img194/7076/inseries.png (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/inseries.png/)

minoly
08-03-2010, 02:37 PM
Please provide drawing.:confused:

The way we read your post, it would short out the charge battery as well. tried it, and it did short out the charge battery. essentially, we added a diode from the charge + to the run/primary +, stripe on the run/primary + side.(basically shorting the charge bat w/ a diode) :eek:

what we first did that was very interesting, was to put a 350v 3300uf cap in-between the primary + and the added diode (cap- to primary+ & cap+ to "stripey" diode then other side of diode to charge+). :clap:

This shorted nothing, and in fact the cap filled up to 350v rather quickly:suprise: . are we robbing Peter to pay Paul here? chasing our own tail? we know there is a significant charge that comes back to the primary, perhaps this is a method of capturing/isolating that event. A few solid cap dump runs could tell...:thinking:

sorry, having an animated mood today:rainbow:

minoly
08-03-2010, 02:41 PM
stop the press!

we just re-read your post, you have two 2 SLA's in series for the primary?
is it just the one primary going up in voltage? the SLA closest to the added diode?


***********
never mind still shorts it. nice cap charge though.

tester16
08-03-2010, 05:09 PM
Sorry for the delay everyone. The last drawing which was posted does not seem to represent what i tried. I am attaching an image. I did not put a complete circuit in but the black part shows what I did.
-this is currently just a standard bedini circuit for testing.

Yesterday when I left the device stopped running, however,once the device stops it seems to have a higher voltage or equal to when the device than the previous time it stopped. Since the device stops It may be shorting the battery, only difference is so far the batteries do not seem to be getting damaged as of yet. I have multiple sla's to test this. I will lower the base resistance all the way to see if the device can stay running.

Note: I am not using any caps at the moment in my running circuit, however I have been experimenting with a 1Farad cap in an open loop on my ground battery in parallel to the circuit to increase the excess energy gained from the environment, before the recent change with the diodes. This has seemed to make my unit run a bit better.

Also, in case anyone wants to know what transistor I am using, currently it is running a tip120 darlington transistor.

tester16
08-03-2010, 05:55 PM
I forgot to mention in case anyone is interested. My circuit with the ground rods is slightly different than most Bedini setups. the actual output from the negative of the charge battery is not going directly to the run battery positive.
The output is going to a small coil with two layers of multistrand wire around a bolt in an effort to improve the voltage spikes a bit. It is then going to a copper ground furthest from the device. (this is to charge the ground) There is then a copper ground with a diode directing current outwards to the charge battery positive closer to the device. If I hook a multimeter between the negative of the run battery(connected to a zinc rod) and the inner copper rod I am registering around 13vdc. With a digital multimeter the voltage keeps fluctuating and is not constant.

nvisser
08-03-2010, 07:22 PM
That second diode is a dead short over your charge battery and will go up in smoke if that battery has any energy in it.

minoly
08-03-2010, 09:11 PM
ditto, that's exactly what we did this morning, and it shorted out the charging:( , however, had some very interesting results w/ the cap as described above:thumbsup: . been running a cap dump to a 3rd battery all day. No real measurements to report we'll see after a couple of days what it does.:thinking:

tester16
08-03-2010, 11:47 PM
Ok, I will try the circuit with the cap in between the second diode and primary battery. However, have any of you added a diode with the current going outwards from the primary battery? In my circuit I have all the connections going from that diode. I think I forgot to add that in the pic, but mentioned it earlier in the posts. This should essentially prevent a direct short, or at least make a small load.

sucahyo
08-04-2010, 04:32 AM
However, have any of you added a diode with the current going outwards from the primary battery?I use SLA. I will never use that arrangement because my charged battery need both the radiant and normal electricity or else it behave like capacitor.

BTW, you need to measure the current too. You need current to charge a battery. A OU system will send more charge to the battery, but there should be current that carry it.