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DavidE
02-10-2010, 11:38 AM
Bedini 10-coil energizer kits now available (http://pesn.com/2010/02/09/9501612_Bedini_10-Coil-Energizer-Kits_Now_Available/)

http://pesn.com/2010/02/09/9501612_Bedini_10-Coil-Energizer-Kits_Now_Available/Rick-Friedrich_John-Bedinii_assembling_10-Coil-Kit.jpg


:suprise:

ashtweth
02-11-2010, 01:45 AM
Yep Finally Rick has got experimental kits for all, many thanks to John for doing that too. Vince is one of the Panacea engineers who offered to help us get some data for All, (he purchased one) i guess we have to measure the power out by the extraction of power from the batteries as you cannot meter it.

Will do a nice promo and measurement vid for all and get some data. Thanks to Rick and John for this. I like how you can use super caps instead of lead acid batteries.

Ash

Murlin
02-11-2010, 12:30 PM
Aluminum or poly rotor?

I see them starting to use an aluminum rotor and then see them switch to a polymer rotor when assembling the 10-coil.

Then you see it running with the aluminum rotor. Anyone know what's up with that?

Nice job BTW on this energizer guys....very professional looking.
The energizer is allot quieter than I thought it would be...


regards,

Murlin:peacesmiley:

baroutologos
02-12-2010, 01:20 PM
4,000 USD for a battery rejuvanator is way too much i would say..

dragon
02-12-2010, 02:11 PM
4,000 USD for a battery rejuvanator is way too much i would say..

It's unique in its own way but I would have to agree... you can buy alot of energy ( solar - wind ) for that kind of money. Or... prepay my electric bill for 8 years.....
________

everwiser
02-12-2010, 03:18 PM
Not to be a wet blanket, why not sell completed units? If the price is going to be that high for a "kit" that the builder may screw up and not get to work, why not go ahead and sell it already assembled?

Aaron
02-12-2010, 10:40 PM
The original prototype cost $15,000 to make. (that didn't include labor)

This is not just a "rejuvenator".

If you have two battery banks and one you power
your house while the other is getting charged and
you switch back and forth. What do you think
that is called?

theremart
02-12-2010, 11:13 PM
The original prototype cost $15,000 to make. (that didn't include labor)

This is not just a "rejuvenator".

If you have two battery banks and one you power
your house while the other is getting charged and
you switch back and forth. What do you think
that is called?

Well as I understand it, you can't just use two sets of batteries, you would need an inverter as well ( as to not have the radient energy from first bank disturb the second bank ).

Looks like an interesting prototype, but this is not an automated system you would be continually swapping the batteries manually. ( provided you did solder it together correctly, and they did have the time to get back with you ).

So it is as it is billed, an beta test for experimenters.

Looking forward to see someone else build it, and see what kind of support they get.

baroutologos
02-13-2010, 07:50 AM
That Device is not producing any OU and cannot power anything...

I suppose you have to buy one and find out first hand. After all 4,000 USD is a little price for overunity, right?

Aaron
02-13-2010, 08:16 AM
To become energy independant it takes time and effort studying and learning how to use these systems effectively.

The very first key to energy independence for a home owner is to first
seal the home with weather stripping, good windows, good doors, etc... and
do proper insulation and radiant barriers with a goal of insulation at over
R60-70 - R100 is preferable. If you hold on to your heat in winter and
keep out heat in summer - then your requirement for heat/cool, which
accounts for 50% of the average American home power bill is reduced
to practically nothing.

This is the non-sexy secret that nobody wants to focus on. My house
is 56 years old and with a few changes, the blower door test showed
that my house is 15% better than state requirement for new homes
and with a few more things, it will be better than energy star rating!

Blower door tests only show leak proof ability and not insulation but that
is first, insulation second.

Most people look at the complicated or exotic stuff, but it is the
simple stuff that needs to be done first, then if a power bill is reduced
by 40-60%, these other exotic devices suddenly can do everything.

My total cooling/heating/electric bill for a year is about $1800, which is
about 150/month average over 12 months. That is for over 1600 square
feet - I have 4 computers running 24/7 most of the time and I keep the
heat in the winter between 70-73F, I don't believe in sacrificing my
comfort at setting it at 68F like all the propaganda says. If I have an
energy efficient home to begin with, I will spend less heating my home to
73F than someone else will setting their thermostat to 68F while they wear
a sweater shivering in the cold thinking they're saving the world or
their pocketbook! lol

Anyway, my point is that if the sealing and insulation/radiant is done to
the right level, most people's home energy usage can drop up to 1/2
easily. Then suddenly, these exotic energy devices don't even have to
be monster perpetual motion machines from alien technology in order to
be something that provides a real solution.

If we cut our home power bill in half by common sense sealing/insulation/
radiant barrier, we cut the solar cell need in half, which a 50% savings on
that is ENORMOUS! For example if we go with solar cells. And if we use
Bedini's solar charging technology coming soon, we drop the solar cell
quantity requirement even more!

Bartologous, I see your comment on $4000 USD being expensive for
overunity. I'm not claiming overunity, but if something is overunity
in a very real sense, $4000 USD is a drop in the bucket. It would take me
but about one blink of an eye before I pull out my checkbook and write
a check for that at that price.

I also make a distinction between overunity and over 1.0 cop and again,
I'm not making any claims for the 10-coiler. I just know what I have seen
it do to monster 200amp hour 2 volt batteries lined in a very large bank
that came from cell phone towers. :D

Also, again, I'm not claiming overunity for the 10 coiler, but you have to
realize for 10 years on the internet it has been spelled out VERY CLEARLY
that all gains are realized in the battery and are not directly measurable
on the output of the circuit. Of course a small number of people have
realized this gain, but just because there are a small number of people
that have done it compared to everyone that has done the experiments
does not in any way invalidate this fact.

dambit
02-13-2010, 09:19 AM
Hi All,

I think for those who are about to go 100% solar and/or wind power for there homes or farms, this is a great price. Plus the US dollar is down the ****ter (sorry guys) so depending on where you hang your hat, there are savings to be made in the exchange rate.

Think about it. The cost of the energiser will be covered by the fact that you don't need as many solar panels when using them in conjunction with other power sources to power the energiser. Solar panels purchased at the retail level are a massive rip-off, so you would be spending that much anyway.

As far as building the unit goes, it's not like you have to wind the coils yourself. It also has printed circuit boards, how hard can it be!

I think I'll be getting one by years end. (Maybe I'll just get the PCB's and replace the circuits on my large energiser. Actually I think I'll do that regardless :D )

Cheers, :cheers:

Steve

aguy
02-13-2010, 10:06 AM
Aluminum or poly rotor?

I see them starting to use an aluminum rotor and then see them switch to a polymer rotor when assembling the 10-coil.

Then you see it running with the aluminum rotor. Anyone know what's up with that?

Nice job BTW on this energizer guys....very professional looking.
The energizer is allot quieter than I thought it would be...


regards,

Murlin:peacesmiley:


hi Murlin I THIKK IT HAS BOATH CK THIS


YouTube - TheShirkinator's Channel (http://tinyurl.com/yenx928)
guy b

baroutologos
02-13-2010, 10:33 AM
@ Aaron,

You are absolutely right about readily energy reduction costs via good insulation, utilization of solar panels for heating, and other energy effective methods. All ok... but

IMO this therad its not about energy savings. it is discussed what the 10-coiler perfected by Bedini can do.

What can do?

Formal statements will be a nice thing to see.
Battery rejuvenator, energizer (charger) and?

No overunity claims, still COP over 1 claims... in what sense? Is it a heat pump? The charging and mechanical effect combined can result in COP >1 ??

Many people here, including myself are tend to think strictly and based on specifications. In order to consider 4,000 USD a good price, we must know exactly what it can do.

If the statements cannot be met, refunds should be made. As with all products on the market. Plain and simple. Honest deals...

ps: I said IF it was an OU machine, self sustainable plus providing useful output, the 4.000 USD will be a very reasonable price and i would consider buying one

DavidE
02-13-2010, 03:17 PM
You doubters need to consider what John Bedini cannot say. Also listen carefully to what he does say. The subtleties are there.

In this offer, there is a Y in the road. Take it if you want to step towards true independence, if not you de facto are supporting your dependence for power supplied by others. There is no right or wrong here, just two choices.

The question is as simple as this consideration...

I will write the check either way, which check may harbor the greatest potential return? Be at peace with your choice. :sun:

theremart
02-13-2010, 06:13 PM
You doubters need to consider what John Bedini cannot say. Also listen carefully to what he does say. The subtleties are there.

In this offer, there is a Y in the road. Take it if you want to step towards true independence, if not you de facto are supporting your dependence for power supplied by others. There is no right or wrong here, just two choices.

The question is as simple as this consideration...

I will write the check either way, which check may harbor the greatest potential return? Be at peace with your choice. :sun:

Wish you the best...

I am going to wait to see how the solar battery charger goes. It seems to me that if you had $4,000 worth of the solar battery chargers, You would have the same output as the larger unit, and... you could automate it.

Cheers :thumbsup:

You also may factor in the cost of the batteries and the inverter in the total cost, just a heads up.

baroutologos
02-13-2010, 08:38 PM
You doubters need to consider what John Bedini cannot say. Also listen carefully to what he does say. The subtleties are there.


Hillarious comment i would say... or how the saying goes like "believe and do not question"

ren
02-13-2010, 11:09 PM
That Device is not producing any OU and cannot power anything...



No. ^ That is a hilarious comment.

Cannot power anything....lol. Anything is a very defining word.

You have no understanding of what is being achieved here. The device is a prototype, with which people can direct their research in whatever way they choose. You cant put a rating or specification on that, because you have no way of knowing what each individual will choose to explore, and at what input voltage/amperage, because the results will be different for each.

I tire of your negative approach. You obviously dont see any merit in this technology, so why bother commenting?

Mart has a point too, $4k could get a decent chunk of solar etc running right now. So its not for the faint of heart, bottom line, its still an experimental device, you dont really know how far it can be taken yet.

Ive yet to see many people push any sort of significant voltage through these machines. Im talking 100v plus, which this machine could handle.

Have a look at this video I made of the 3 pole on 36v.

YouTube - 3 pole Monopole 36v (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmczkr-I2Bk)

Now imagine the 10 pole doing that, with 10 generator coils.

wantfreeenergy
02-14-2010, 08:35 AM
I've been outta this forum for a while. Mostly because I no longer have expendable money to purchase supplies and follow everyones experiments and findings. And lemme say a HUGE THANK YOU to everyone that continues to spend their time and money to simply share what they have learned so that one day I and anyone else can open one of these threads and say, "I'm gonna build this here device to provide energy for my home and vehicles and anything else I may need or want it for." THANK YOU. It's so enjoyable to build and learn from all of you. Yet the commitment of money required is really quite a commitment. So I really wanna say it again, THANK YOU EVERYONE.



The 10 coil looks magnificant, "need a more thorough vocab", so smooth and professional looking. If only I could talk my family into spending some money to take us off the grids energy system. This would definately be something worth looking very deeply at. One could have power whenever one wanted. No need for sun nor wind nor fuel. Just go over to the device and give it a spin to get it going. "If it is a simple spin to get it started. From all the small ones I made from fans that's how I got em going anyhow." And I am really liking the idea of the battery bank. One would only need to run the energizer when needed. I reach a stone wall when trying to convince the family to purchasing supplies to take us off grid and be independent with our energy needs. But I'll keep trying.

To be totally honest what I would love to build or see is a window motor that only needs a single battery. It would use the single battery to run and then it would use the collapsed field to charge that same battery. Then I would like to use the mechinical output to make an induction generator. Or hook up in an electric car. Or..... anything. "not to run too far OT, but if anyone has some info on this idea here plz point me back in the right direction. My uncle has an electric RC plane that would be awesome to make a small motor which could do just that and keep it aloft for hours on end."


Anywho. Awesome energizer. I would always look at the original that bedini made and would daydream about how I would have the battery banks to run everything I need and then use the mechinical output to spin an induction motor and sell that surplus back to the power company.

Aaron
02-14-2010, 09:47 AM
The device is a prototype, with which people can direct their research in whatever way they choose. You cant put a rating or specification on that, because you have no way of knowing what each individual will choose to explore, and at what input voltage/amperage, because the results will be different for each.

Exactly - it isn't sold as a home power unit. It is a kit that people can build.
Custom support can help someone with the build but everyone has to
figure out their own application as everyone's will be different.

baroutologos
02-14-2010, 11:38 AM
- message removed due to politeness -

theremart
02-14-2010, 05:39 PM
Exactly - it isn't sold as a home power unit. It is a kit that people can build.
Custom support can help someone with the build but everyone has to
figure out their own application as everyone's will be different.

Aaron, I know you live fairly close to Bedini, have you seen this first hand?

I look forward to hearing from those who have purchased the unit how it works out for them.

Aaron
02-14-2010, 10:45 PM
Mart, I remember when the first 10 coiler was built and Peter and John
were killing their hands winding those things. I have seen it run countless
times and it was able to charge a battery bank that weighs probably 2 tons,
literally. I've seen one bank power thousands of watts of incandescent bulbs
and then have seen the 10 coiler charge up that bank from the other bank
to full charge and have seen both banks charged to the top all without
drawing power from the grid.

I've also seen one of the kits Rick put together and it is a beautiful setup.

So, yes, I've seen it countless times. The 6 coiler, the hotdog machine,
you name it.

Schpankme
02-14-2010, 11:48 PM
I tire of your negative approach. You obviously don't see any merit in this technology, so why bother commenting?

There is zero reason for going Mechanical and Spinning a Shaft; unless you just like to pay to make NOISE.

stonewater
02-15-2010, 01:16 AM
Mart, I remember when the first 10 coiler was built and Peter and John
were killing their hands winding those things. I have seen it run countless
times and it was able to charge a battery bank that weighs probably 2 tons,
literally. I've seen one bank power thousands of watts of incandescent bulbs
and then have seen the 10 coiler charge up that bank from the other bank
to full charge and have seen both banks charged to the top all without
drawing power from the grid.

I've also seen one of the kits Rick put together and it is a beautiful setup.

So, yes, I've seen it countless times. The 6 coiler, the hotdog machine,
you name it.

so here is the interesting part.... when tuned correctly the 10 coiler will charge up both banks of batteries. run from one to charge the second, and back and forth, exactly what you would expect from an aether pump. I will be getting one of these, you can charge huge amounts of batts. this would be an integral part of a solar charging system, to keep you 20k in batteries happpy. even with solar you need to replace batts every 7 to 10 years. with this monopole you can expect your batteries to last at least twice as long.

the small amount of current this unit draws (10 amps) will be easily supplied by a decent sized solar array. so run off your solar inverter in the day, your monopole charged batteries at night. you only need 1 bank. and you double the life of your batteries at least:thumbsup:

Aaron
02-15-2010, 01:21 AM
There is zero reason for going Mechanical and Spinning a Shaft; unless you just like to pay to make NOISE.

With mechanical, it is a mechanical oscillator and is a different machine
than the solid state oscillator.

There is a difference in the timing of the battery pulses, etc... and the
wheel turns for free.

You may only see noise but I know it is something different.

ren
02-15-2010, 06:00 AM
There is zero reason for going Mechanical and Spinning a Shaft; unless you just like to pay to make NOISE.

No.

YOU see zero reason for spinning the shaft.

I dont.

Ive already seen what can be done by spinning the shaft, and the results arent the same as a solidstate unit. You can make it do work, at no extra cost on the input, often for LESS on the input. There is another sweet spot which can be found when the rotor is slightly loaded mechanically where charging ability actually increases, for a decrease in input current.

This is without even starting on generator coils. Or any other form of mechanical load suitable.

Seriously....some people have no imagination....:wall:

dambit
02-15-2010, 08:10 AM
Seriously....some people have no imagination....:wall:

:rofl: :rofl:

Classic!

theremart
02-16-2010, 01:12 AM
so here is the interesting part.... when tuned correctly the 10 coiler will charge up both banks of batteries. run from one to charge the second, and back and forth, exactly what you would expect from an aether pump. I will be getting one of these, you can charge huge amounts of batts. this would be an integral part of a solar charging system, to keep you 20k in batteries happpy. even with solar you need to replace batts every 7 to 10 years. with this monopole you can expect your batteries to last at least twice as long.

the small amount of current this unit draws (10 amps) will be easily supplied by a decent sized solar array. so run off your solar inverter in the day, your monopole charged batteries at night. you only need 1 bank. and you double the life of your batteries at least:thumbsup:


It is a nice thought, and I have tried that.....

There is a problem with this.... it is called clouds. If you try to run a energizer with sunlight the first cloud that comes over will throw your momentum of charge all out of whack.

What I have found that works is to trickle charge batteries up with solar ( thus not killing them with amps ) then using this to run the energizer. This has the advantage of having a constant flow to the energizer.

To me my front set of batteries are my large capacitor to smooth out the bumps of solar called clouds...

amigo
02-16-2010, 01:38 AM
I am sort of puzzled. Isn't this supposed to be a commercial unit, this 10 coiler?

So why does it need "tuning" when people are just supposed to buy it, assemble it and voila?! Or is this another experimental unit for people to play with?

elias
02-16-2010, 06:34 AM
I am sort of puzzled. Isn't this supposed to be a commercial unit, this 10 coiler?

So why does it need "tuning" when people are just supposed to buy it, assemble it and voila?! Or is this another experimental unit for people to play with?

I hope that this unit shows the real principle involved in a Bedini Energizer.

Hmmm ... lets see

10 coils, about 20Kg of Copper ... 250$
10 circuits, ... 100$
A perfect rotor with magnets ... 50$
Perfectly cut plexiglasses ... 100$
Labor for building the coils and circuits: 500$
----------------------------------------
Total: 1000$

So, we are not obliged to buy the kits, because Bedini, seems to have released every bit of knowledge required to build this machine, and we can build it ourselves for a maximum of 500$ not including the labor, if we don't want to pay 4000$.

If Bedini wants to reduce the 4000$ price tag, he needs to start a factory. So I find 4000$ reasonable, as there is not obligation to it, and one can build it for 500$ if he wants to.

ren
02-16-2010, 07:00 AM
Dude...

I wanna know where you are sourcing your parts!

10 coils, each at least 100 ft of awg 23 x 8 strands per circuit. That's 8000 feet. I'd be cheering to get that for $250.

10 circuits, with 8 mjl's per board. Buy em locally you can be up for $10 each. Let's use Ricks price, $6 each. That's just shy of $500 bucks, just for transistors. Add on 80 resistors, 160 diodes, circuit boards etc as well.

Aluminum rotor, with the dovetail style slots for 20 magnets, I couldn't get that made for less than $500, maybe some others could, but a machine shop would easily charge that for supply of material and labour.

There is at least $100 dollars worth of Perspex there. Molded too, which costs a fortune. I'd think it would be closer to $200 dollars worth. Before cutting/molding/tapping.

Trust me, you couldn't build this to this level of quality for $5000. Especially if you did not have contacts within the industries, or know someone with a full blown workshop.

There are still at least $500 dollars in incidentals that most wouldn't even consider.

Aaron
02-16-2010, 07:56 AM
10 coils, about 20Kg of Copper ... 250$
10 circuits, ... 100$
A perfect rotor with magnets ... 50$
Perfectly cut plexiglasses ... 100$
Labor for building the coils and circuits: 500$
----------------------------------------
Total: 1000$

Elias,

Please post estimates from places
with parts that match your pricing claims so we can all benefit.

Plazma
02-17-2010, 01:29 AM
@Ren; @Aaron -

I have a milling machine (with rotary table) and a decent lathe - I shudder at the job of cutting those dovetails in the rotor and I've wound enough coils to know how nasty ten, 8-filars would be . . . ugly . . . . sooooo, I've got one of Bedini's 10-coil beasties on order.

I plan on posting my build and testing progress on a forum - so, is this the correct forum to do so? Or, maybe a moderator could point me in the correct direction.

I plan to start conservative on voltages (and tuning resistors) and very carefully build up experience one step at a time (i.e., 12V -> 24 V -> 48 V -> 72 V, source and charge load(s)). Tuning this beast is going to be quite a challenge. On into the future I hope to create workable switching strategies and hardware to facilitate switching battery banks and loads and the micro-controllers, plc's, and/or relays needed for effective switching. What I end up with as a "system" could also employ other Bedini devices such as a solar charger on the front end - we'll see.

Based on conversations with Rick F., tuning and dealing with "radiated/radiant noise/interference" could be quite a challenge so things could get really interesting inside the metal building I call "The Bunker" that houses all of my toys.

These forums are great - and a big :thumbsup: to all of the moderators for helping keep them that way.

Cheers,

Plazma

theremart
02-17-2010, 01:32 AM
@Ren; @Aaron -

I have a milling machine (with rotary table) and a decent lathe - I shudder at the job of cutting those dovetails in the rotor and I've wound enough coils to know how nasty ten, 8-filars would be . . . ugly . . . . sooooo, I've got one of Bedini's 10-coil beasties on order.

I plan on posting my build and testing progress on a forum - so, is this the correct forum to do so? Or, maybe a moderator could point me in the correct direction.

I plan to start conservative on voltages (and tuning resistors) and very carefully build up experience one step at a time (i.e., 12V -> 24 V -> 48 V -> 72 V, source and charge load(s)). Tuning this beast is going to be quite a challenge. On into the future I hope to create workable switching strategies and hardware to facilitate switching battery banks and loads and the micro-controllers, plc's, and/or relays needed for effective switching. What I end up with as a "system" could also employ other Bedini devices such as a solar charger on the front end - we'll see.

Based on conversations with Rick F., tuning and dealing with "radiated/radiant noise/interference" could be quite a challenge so things could get really interesting inside the metal building I call "The Bunker" that houses all of my toys.

These forums are great - and a big :thumbsup: to all of the moderators for helping keep them that way.

Cheers,

Plazma

It will be most helpful for us to hear first hand your build. Indeed you have come to the right place.

Look forward to seeing your results.:thumbsup:

Cheers.

ren
02-17-2010, 01:47 AM
@Ren; @Aaron -

24 V -> 48 V -> 72 V, source and charge

Plazma

I like this part :)

Cant wait to see how you go Plazma.

Id order a kit myself if I had the $$ for it. Maybe someday.

Regards

Aaron
02-17-2010, 02:43 AM
Elias, at first, I wrote almost a 2 page reply to your cost estimate then
changed it to my short post :)

Your estimation is impossible - circuit is $100? How many transistors
do you need for the whole circuit and how much are they each? What is
the total with shipping and possible tax. That doesn't even include resistors,
diodes, solder, etc...

Anyway, $500 will get you a fraction of the parts and no machining of
anything. You can build it with a bicycle wheel and plywood and you
still can't touch it for $500 not even close.

patmac
02-17-2010, 03:01 AM
elias

But What can we make the rotor?

This big rotor needs to be perfectly machined on a turnable machine. This generates a big cost too.

ren
02-17-2010, 03:30 AM
all my estimates above are BEST case only. In reality it would likely cost alot more.

Patmac is right. Its no walk in the park to get that rotor built.

elias
02-17-2010, 06:02 AM
Well Friends,

I have been building these machines for about 2-3 years and I know exactly what they need. Copper Wire, Transistors, a Good Wheel with magnets.

So, lets see, I buy Copper Wire for about 10$ each Kg, So I estimate Each coil to take about 2KG of heavy gauge wire, thus 10 of these coils with a cheap bobbin for it will take about 250$.

The most expensive part of the circuit is the transistor.
I use MJ15022 and have a voltage rating of about 200V and good current rating, which I have used for years (thanks Ren for the recommendation), I buy them about 1.5$ each, So If I use three transistors per coil, I need 30 transistors, which would result in 45$ maximum, as I will be getting discount. So the fibre and other stuff (diodes, neon, etc) are not that much pricey and will add at most about 50$ to the overall, So this is my circuits at about 100$

Now about the rotor, I considered using a bicycle wheel, which is one of the best choices for a rotor (especially if you can find a second hand racing bike wheel), With 4x10magnets, The total ceramic magnets, would cost about 10$. But If you want an aluminium rotor, Aluminium is a cheap and light metal, and I don't think that the material costs more than 40$. I can get it laser cut for about 100$ at most, So you can add 100$ to the price above If you want a Perfect Lasercut rotor. (I think that Jetijs can give us better estimates for laser-cutting costs)
Machining Aluminium is easy as it is a soft metal, and I don't think that the machinist would charge you more than 50$ for a single rotor, if you want to machine it.

So, What have we left, oh yes, the beautiful laser-cut plexi-glass holders, I can get them for at most 100$.

The other parts, such as ball bearings, and glue, etc. are negligible.

So can we build this machine for 500-600$? If you add the time and energy and of course skills you put in building it, it is up to each of us.

Although I think It can be built with 500-600$, I would buy it from Bedini for 4000$ if I had the money, in order to save time, and also get a more pro and original work, So I am in no way saying that The price tag is not reasonable, I am only saying that the machine is not that far out of reach for those who want to build it for a cheaper price.

Edit: I found out that copper wire is really cheap in my country, so I found the following: 5Kg of #18 copper wire for about 85$, So if you want 20Kg of it you'd consider the copper wire to cost about 340$ which is 140$ above my estimation, so you can add that to the overall price.
Amazon.com: Magnet Wire for Wind Generators, AWG18/18 Gauge, 11 LB Spool: Home Improvement (http://www.google.com/product_url?q=http://www.amazon.com/Magnet-Generators-AWG18-Gauge-Spool/dp/B00125SDQU&fr=AASLx7BgwrH5q1mKcBxQc-uIMpecVTaetAMwdC7uyVigbWjThKG-ZXEKxU38iUihSetWCwKLW1bqLPkHlk2YYUIK6KJvyoDmmJEXyr umW9BWFXrYL2Mfee1ml5N-Y3dL6_LCfjdCq7FoC9NtPQrbfT4AAAAAAAAAAA&gl=us&hl=en&sa=title)

The transistor is here: Electronix Online (http://www.electronix.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/6_307/products_id/14565)
Although I get them for less than 1.5$, you can get them for about 2$ each from that source.

Best ... :thumbsup:
Elias

elias
02-17-2010, 06:52 AM
Hi

Sorry, I didn't notice that the energiser uses 8 wires for each coil, thus 8 transistors per coil. I estimated for 3 transistors per coil, so If we are to use 8 transistors per coil, we have a different scenario, although the estimation for the coils do not change, because I estimated that with copper weight, and according to the coil size, which would not take more than 2 Kg for each coil.

So If we want to use 8 transistor per coil, the whole diodes and resistors for each coil would not cost more than 10$ including the board, the transistors would cost 8*2=16$ for each coil, so we could consider the price of each circuit for each of the coils to be about 30$, multiplying by 10, that would result in 300$ for the whole circuits, if we use Ricks transistors (Electronix Online (http://www.electronix.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/6_312/products_id/12938)) we could do that for about 400$. I have to correct the estimation be about 1000$ instead of 500-600$.

And I acknowledge that It would take good amount of time and work, to solder, wind, and assemble.

Elias

elias
02-17-2010, 07:00 AM
I like this part:
We will soon have an additional system (for additional cost) that will attach to this 10 coiler that will function like the early Bedini Energizer system replicated by Jim Watson. It will consist of a rotor with magnets, and energizer coils with frame assembly. It will allow for back charging the primary battery bank or powering additional loads isolated from the 10 coiler (see below).

ren
02-17-2010, 08:02 AM
Yes, that does sound interesting :)

Plazma
02-17-2010, 09:09 AM
@All,

Ref the 10-coil energizer assembly, I decided to get the basic 10x8 circuits built and working first before attempting adding a load onto the shaft as there is so much to learn. Also, I had a very informative chat with Rick F. and he warned me to take precautions to protect all of my digital gear anywhere in the immediate vicinity if I added the generator coils assembly onto the 10-coil energizer motor - that based on his testing and development experience. As I have a fair amount of expensive electronics in my shop that I do not want to fry, I will proceed with caution. I am grateful to Rick for taking the time he spent with me out of a very busy schedule.

That caution aside, the Watson configuration is indeed intriguing - just be careful to protect your toys. I plan to attempt some form of generator, but later, not sooner. Hope we get other builders on this forum - should be a lot of fun.

Best,

Plazma

linesrg
02-17-2010, 11:01 AM
Aaron et al,

I will continue to post (until such time as I am banned) on this forum with my simple requests.

Firstly, yet again, I want to believe in a Bedini based system, this message doesn't change.

The 10 coiler kit does represent pretty good value for money IMHO if you are in the market for such a device.

The root question is what exactly will this device do for you?

Yet again I am seeing references on this thread, as are posted elsewhere, with reference to extracting mechanical energy from a rotor based device. I am getting fed up of stating that this is indeed true BUT it is at the expense of charging capability. Anybody who believes otherwise is living in cloud cuckoo land. I and others have determined this and I believe it to be a fact.

This device will very likely do a brilliant job of recovering very large batteries and allow peoplet o benefit from an increased capacity in what may very well have been originally junk batteries and very probably purchased quite cheaply.

I don't doubt it can be used with two large banks of batteries BUT (yes it's that word again) I do not believe it will allow you to use both banks indefinitely anymore than a smaller device would on a smaller bank.

Thus I come back to my oft asked question relating to front to back efficiency of using a rotor based SG with a twin bank of batteries if that is the way you might be thinking of using them (and that is certainly what is being implied in various places).

The latest video's release by JB/ RF show the Tesla Switch/ Solar Kick(?) device charging a battery and it is good to see some more accurate determination of volts/ amps. Thus we see some 78W going into the device and some 140W coming out - BUT(sorry for that word again) this is what is happening into a battery. This is only a part of the picture

All we need now is to see what happens when you note the battery start voltage, run this device for an hour into that battery and then load that battery at its C20 rate until it gets back to the original starting voltage. Surely it's going to be more than an hour isn't it?????

For the record my SMA inverter claims to be 94% efficient. This needs to be demonstrated in a way that is effectively set in legislation and which all manufacturers need to comply with so we know we comparing like for like.

I want to believe but this isn't blind faith.

Please note this is a considered post, with no name calling, no casting aspersions, no finger pointing. It is a simple variation on what I have posted before and, when you cut through all the BS in other threads and posts ask yourself this - has anybody actually answered my very simple questions? The answer is no and everybody is entitled to ask why.

Either a rotor based SG system (i.e. input source to SG to batteries to useful power extracted) is more than 100% efficient or it isn't. If it isn't then isn't it about time sombdoy somewhere could put a figure on this?

Other than this I agree entirely with Aaron's observations about the efficiency of one's own home. I am facing an uphill battle in my 151 year old farm house. The cost of dealing with this is substantial to say the least and requires a total internal strip and re-build due to the nature of the construction of the property. The return on some of this work is measured in a great many years roughly on a par with investing in renewable energy, thus I have to wrestle with this dilemma each and every time I make a decision on which way to go.

Regards

Richard

Mark
02-17-2010, 11:44 AM
Hello Richard

I have some of the same concerns as you. I am looking forward to hear from those who buy the 10 coiler to see what kind results they get.

I am also very interested in the solar kick unit. The measurement of 78W going into the device and some 140W coming out isn't a true measurment IMOA since the output is a pulse and not constant. But that is not as important as to what it does to the batteries being charged. I would like to buy one of these units and instead of hooking a solar panel to it would put a battery on the front end and see what kind of results I get.

Elias

Your numbers are still way off and your not even using the same parts. I think it (might) be possible to build a poorly constructed 10 coiler for $2000 but I wouldn't want to be near it if you put more that 24 volts into it.

Plazma

Congrats on buying the kit. I am really looking forward to hearing about your testing. Has Rick given you any advise on how many batteries to put on the output? It seems like you'd want a minimum of 4 or 5. Good luck on your build and I hope everything goes well with no problems or melt downs.

Mark

Sephiroth
02-17-2010, 01:35 PM
Yet again I am seeing references on this thread, as are posted elsewhere, with reference to extracting mechanical energy from a rotor based device. I am getting fed up of stating that this is indeed true BUT it is at the expense of charging capability. Anybody who believes otherwise is living in cloud cuckoo land. I and others have determined this and I believe it to be a fact.


Hi Richard,

I agree there is very little/no solid data regarding extracting mechacal energy from the rotor and as you know this is of interest to me as well and I will be more than happy to share my data when i have completed my experiments.

I don't believe that extracting mechanical energy from the rotor neccesarily reduces the charge efficiency but I don't have the data to confirm my opinion yet. I don't live in cuckoo land, lol... I have good reason to believe this, but I need to do more controlled tests.

I would be very interested in any data you have that confirms that charging efficiency is reduced when the mechanical energy is extracted.

Many thanks
Seph

ren
02-17-2010, 04:33 PM
Richard, Ive actually seen the OPPOSITE, as have others. Im not sure where you are getting your data from?

When the SG circuit is loaded mechanically (obviously, not to the point where it stops the shaft) Ive seen an increase in the voltage rise on the secondary battery, and a slight DECREASE in input power. As you should be aware Richard, load the shaft and you will pull less power. JB stated long ago that this device actually likes to have a slight resistance acting upon the shaft.

Perhaps you would care to look at this short video of a magneto Ive been playing around with, helping my machinist build.

YouTube - Westons Magneto (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-1z9EmJb-E)

There is a coil ontop of this device which is strictly generator coil, that is, there is no input into it other than induction from the rotor. The rotor has largish neos on it, and its capable of filling a microwave cap to 200v almost instantly. Or 20,000uF quite steadily, over 20v in about 3 seconds. This represents a small drag on the rotor, with a loss of approximately 50 rpm at its top speed at 12v input (870rpm). But that extra load on the shaft doesnt cost us any more input, and the battery charges just fine on the back end, gen coil or not.

IMO, that is one of the greatest advantages of this circuit.

Im actually starting to get scared of this build, we recently upped the strands on the power coils, and we are running it on 24v. IF the rotor wasnt bulletproof, I wouldnt be standing next to it when it takes off.

Regards

WeThePeople
02-18-2010, 06:41 AM
I'm sorry to have to report this.

This kit is NOT an actual copy of the
REAL John Bedini 10-coil unit
you've no doubt seen in videos.

It DOES NOT contain pairs of magnets
in North-2-North orientation
to make "Sharp North's".

Just look at the laminations in John's
original video footage from the EFTV vids.
(Energy From The Vacuum)

Again, my point here is to ONLY
point out the statment in John's vids,
that this is in fact an
"An exact copy of the original"
is sadly absolutely incorrect.

I am not in any way saying it is not
worthy on some note and doesn't work.

Another fairly major gripe was the kit offer.

I believe they should have offered this starter kit:
1 - All physical parts + magnets/inserts
2 - All trigger/lightshow parts
3 - ONLY ONE coil + hardware
4 - Only ONE coil's supporting board parts

With a second kit option for:
1 - ONLY ONE coil + hardware
2 - Only ONE coil's supporting board parts

This would have put it the reach of mere mortals.

The initial setup complete with only one coil,
then nine (Additional) investments to fully populate it.

Same with the 20, 30 coil upgrade kits,
all physical with one coil/hardware/Semi's.
Hope they read this forum...



Also, there was a question about
the plastic/aluminum rotor aspect.

The plastic one is the rotor with all magnets,
the aluminum one only gets two magnets
for trigger, and the lightshow it seems...

Watch:
YouTube - OFFICIAL BEDINI 10 COIL KIT INFOMERCIAL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA2KtZ45nXA)

Save MP4:
Download OFFICIAL BEDINI 10 COIL KIT INFOMERCIAL video - savevid.com (http://www.savevid.com/video/official-bedini-10-coil-kit-infomercial.html)

Watch the time-lapse stuff at the end.

This unit ONLY uses SINGLE
Neo's about a inch long...

This disapoints me as I was awaiting
the dual magnet pair orientation info
to start persuing this concept.

More proof?

The single Neo's are held by these
plastic inserts Rich installs by c-clamp.

Here are the pics from an
actual purchaser of the kit.

Again, sorry to have to report this.

ren
02-18-2010, 06:56 AM
Hi We.

I have seen some information suggesting that they will be supplying different types of rotors for customers, depending on what they are after, the scalar north rotor being one option. My understanding is that the "scalar north" rotor has a faster switching time, but less mechanical power. So perhaps this is the reason they went with the neos and traditional magnet config.

I assumed that the aluminum rotor is for the main coils? Perhaps this is not the case? You are seeming to imply that the aluminum only has 2 magnets in it? So why all the recesses? John does say that it is an exact copy, which isnt entirely correct either I believe. For one the original used AWG 18 on the coils. But this has been changed so that the unit can run over a broader input range. BTW, they will be offering AWG 18 on their coils soon Ive heard.

Once again, this is info I have heard through the grapevine.

Regards

WeThePeople
02-18-2010, 07:15 AM
I have seen some information suggesting that they will be supplying different types of rotors for customers, depending on what they are after, the scalar north rotor being one option. My understanding is that the "scalar north" rotor has a faster switching time, but less mechanical power. So perhaps this is the reason they went with the neos and traditional magnet config.


All I ever wanted was the rotor,
well OK, and a verified schematic.


I assumed that the aluminum rotor is for the main coils? Perhaps this is not the case? You are seeming to imply that the aluminum only has 2 magnets in it? So why all the recesses?


The aluminum rotor is additional
to the shaft's center plastic rotor.

You'll see it mounted on the end of the shaft.
(See vid links, request MP4 copy from me if dead linked)

Sadly, there does not seem to be a vid shot
of the aluminum shaft aligning wit any coils.

Perhaps I missed something?

I also wonder why they included all recesses
in that machined aluminum piece for sure myself too.

When the purchaser I am am in contact with
eventually gets all parts, I will ask about that.

Could they have meant the aluminum one
to me the main rotor in the initial concept?


John does say that it is an exact copy, which isnt entirely correct either I believe.


Thank you, that is all I was saying here,
other people might (Still) lash out thinking
I was bashing this kit.

We have to start somewhere,
this is a nice start truely.

For one the original used AWG 18 on the coils. But this has been changed so that the unit can run over a broader input range. BTW, they will be offering AWG 18 on their coils soon Ive heard.


I've seen other wire gauge size's quotes by John (As text).
Sigh...
But it is good they are forward thinking non the less.

Even if the above kit suggestion gets adopted,
that is still eight circuits worth of usefull energy.

WeThePeople
02-18-2010, 07:45 AM
Again, just to be sure, I want to believe.

John has every right to persue concept,
and he may be under suppression to tell all

OK, he is MOST LIKELY under to supress stuff.

So OK.

But he said the kit was an exact copy.

Sorry, that is an incorrect statement period!

Does anyone here that has been in direct contact
with John have data/pic of the original wheel.

Oh, and a small point.

Ren, it seems to be an "Imaginary" SOUTH pole,
not a north pole at work here.

Even though at 10-coils it would be
36.5 degrees per alignment,
and 18.25 per half pole alignment,
John seems to stick to twenty two degrees.

Like 22-Degree's is an exact recovery time
on the coils collapse to "catch" Stuff.

I believe my thinking is wrong,
and 22 after alignment may be a clue.

linesrg
02-18-2010, 08:38 AM
Ren,

If you say you have seen a total increase in energy out when using shaft torque in some way then I am not going to contradict you personally.

This is not the same as saying I agree with you however.

I am also not going to say that simply because I have a certian result then that is the ONLY result possible. People do need to realise that I have built a large number of rotor based devices with a great many configurations and have tried various things.

My experience and that of others supports the old adage that there is no such thing as a free lunch and a rotor based SG is no different. Yes loading the shaft does reduce input current up to a point BUT the usable energy extracted form the battery on the back end also goes down. It is difficult to accurately measure the energy extracted from the rotor other than say using a generator coil and a fixed known load but believe me these are the results that I and others have seen.

I would love to believe those that make claims that oppose mine but I have yet to see anybody post any results or video's with incontrovertible evidence supporting a view alternate to mine.

I also have to agree that the 10 coiler shown in the promotional video certainly appears to be something less than the original but I wasn't going to be the first to state that as I didn't want to inflame passions.

Also I am the only person wondering where the Tesla Switch thread is going?

Regards

Richard

smw1998a
02-18-2010, 04:27 PM
Hello All,
I have worked with energisers for many years, along with Richard and several others. I understand the SSG and like Richard I have built and tested many examples of it. John’s 10 coiler kit is truly a remarkable kit and is well priced IMHO. Yes the rotor is different and the magnet configuration is different but, again, IMHO the difference will not be that great between the “scalar north” and the magnets supplied. Like everything there is swings and roundabouts, advantages and disadvantages, there will be no great disadvantage in the type of magnets supplied with the kit.

What concerns me is the expectations placed on this kit. Many are unfounded and those people will be bitterly disappointed. John considers an average current of 1 Amp per coil on any SSG with coils of this size, with all 10 coils that is a possible 10 Amp average input. The SSG could be tuned to draw more current and possibly less but I will go with 10 Amps for now. Consider what input you would need to charge a large battery bank with your new 10 coiler. Your average 10 amp input with a duty cycle of 33% would have to supply an instantaneous current of 35 amps @24v, with a duty cycle of 25% the supply must be able to cope with an instantaneous current of 45 amps @ 24v, 840watts and 1080 watts respectively.

If you wanted to drive your energiser @24v from the wall you would need a substantial transformer, rated at least 50 amps output @24v, these are usually only found in industry assuming you could afford one. You could arguably place enough batteries in series to match rectified line voltage. Possible, where you have 110v, not so possible where you have 240v. And, there are a hundred reasons why this is vary dangerous and should never be attempted. So driving your energiser from the wall at full power is not an ideal option.

Battery power may be the best way to go, after all, average 10 amp draw would only require 200Ah battery bank @ 24v. Not quite. If you want your batteries to last then the C20 rate it is and with an instantaneous current of 30 – 40 amps, your C20 rate would require a battery bank of 600 to 800 Ah @ 24v. Do you have any idea how much conventional energy is required to charge an 800 Ah battery bank and the size of charger required?

Solar is not really an option because of the instantaneous current required by the energiser. If the solar array can’t deliver that instant current, source voltage will drop and the energiser will struggle to function. It certainly will not charge batteries in such conditions. Solution, a bigger solar array. Even if it were viable you would run into the energisers Achilles heel. The energiser takes time to charge batteries, in most cases the length of time is impractical for efficient off grid living. Then there is the front to back efficiency of the energiser. It doesn’t matter how well you hide behind colourful theory, throw accusations or cast aspersions, the SSG energiser is not 80%+ efficient the mechanical is not free and it’s not simply a matter of tuning, it’s physics.

The effect of the energiser on heavily sulphated batteries is remarkable. But in all my years of load testing and cycling batteries I have never measured more out than was put in. I have never measured significantly grater AH capacity than manufacturers specification over continuous cycles and that is fact. Nobody to date has provided solid data to prove otherwise, preferring to quote questionable theory based on poorly understood observations.

@Ren
I watched your video from the link you gave on the first page of this thread. I enjoy such videos very much, particularly when the experimenter is kind enough to include scope shots and other information. Your little SSG was going very well with 36v primary and 36v charge bank. From your waveforms I would estimate your front to back efficiency at 25 to 30%. The only way to prove me wrong is to load test that energiser for a few 20 hour cycles. Choose a battery size that will let your energiser run for at least 20 hours on a conventional charge and charge the same size and type of batteries with the energiser. Load them down with a fixed resistance (to match the average draw of your SSG) to 12v (under load) and note the time of the discharge. You will soon get an idea of the front to back efficiency of your energiser configuration. It is a tedious way to do things but Richard, I and several others do this sort of exercise on a regular basis. That is why when Richard said 30% efficient he meant 30% efficient. Everybody was keen to jump on him but nobody seemed keen to put the sort of bench work in that Richard has put in. Every body wants to argue theory but nobody wants to put their theory to the bench test.

Good Luck.

Lee…

Sephiroth
02-18-2010, 07:28 PM
Lee,

wouldn't a well chosen capacitor on the input solve the problems of the exceptionally large peak current.

If the capacitor is being charged from a supply that can handle the average power required by the energizer, then an inductor can be placed in series with the input supply to smooth out the pulses and the capacitor will handle the higher currents required by the energizer.

Good thinking by the way ;) I hadn't considered how to power such a beast!

smw1998a
02-18-2010, 08:49 PM
Lee,

wouldn't a well chosen capacitor on the input solve the problems of the exceptionally large peak current.

If the capacitor is being charged from a supply that can handle the average power required by the energizer, then an inductor can be placed in series with the input supply to smooth out the pulses and the capacitor will handle the higher currents required by the energizer.

Good thinking by the way ;) I hadn't considered how to power such a beast!

Hi Seph,
A capacitor will certainly help but it would have to be a very large cap (and I mean large) to keep up with the current draw and ultimately, the solar panel will have to supply the capacitor at what ever the rate of discharge and then some. Obviously, scaling down the SSG would cure this huge appetite for current just as scaling up would make the demands worse still.

Regards Lee.

WeThePeople
02-18-2010, 08:52 PM
Electrolytic capacitors are always an option
for repetitive short high current usage.

Solar does well if the repetition is very slow.

These ubber-caps can be found as
"Stiffening" caps in auto audio stores.

Be careful whom you purchase from though,
there are a lot of bad caps out there still.

References:
Badcaps.net - What Causes This (http://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=4)

Capacitor plague - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague)

electrolytic capacitors (http://www.deadprogrammer.com/category/technology/electrolytic-capacitors)



I see people still saying scaler north.

Two norths pressed together give a "Sharp North",
but the south wrapping back around is where/when
these coils are triggered, not on the "Sharp" north's.

John tends to call these "Imaginary Scaler South's".

smw1998a
02-19-2010, 05:03 AM
I see people still saying scaler north.

Two norths pressed together give a "Sharp North",
but the south wrapping back around is where/when
these coils are triggered, not on the "Sharp" north's.

John tends to call these "Imaginary Scaler South's".

Hello We,
Could you clarify this statement please. The coil charges and discharges, the transistor is triggered by the "sharp north" or North pole of the rotor magnet.

Regards Lee.

WeThePeople
02-19-2010, 06:47 AM
TY SMW (Lee) for asking,
No the "Sharp" north's are apparently have nothing to due
with the "Imaginary Soth Poles".

Apparently the Norths only swamp the coils.

Please just watch John in the vid.

Sadly I was just banned from the Yahoo thread for being honest,
they sure don't wanting it to get out this is not an exact copy.

Aaron
02-19-2010, 09:39 AM
@WeThePeople,

If you honestly think John will put his name on a hoax, you are sadly
mistaken. And what you are saying is slanderous. He has amplifiers
that are 30 years old still on the market being sold for thousands because
he has always only put his name behind QUALITY products - that is a FACT,
just watch Ebay sometimes.

The opposing norths triggers the coil by inducing the current and the
transistor switched on when the voltage reversed on that base as soon
as those opposing norths leave the center of the core and moves away.

The south fields are squeezing out between the norths and when the coil
charges north, that south is attracted to the coil's north. That south is
where some of the gain comes from as the magnets are PUMPS.

----------------

@Lee,

30-35% efficient, that would be a record for the worst ever, maybe.

80% tops? That may be your experience, but that has nothing to do with
what others have achieved. You can speak for your own
experience, but you can't speak for what is possible with the machines.

There are people with 50 years experience in physics but it doesn't mean
they ever really learned anything. I'm not saying that applies to you but
just making a point that many people do a LOT of experimentation, a lot of
bad experimentation. Are you? I don't know, you been at this a long time,
but you can also see in that OTG group there were also claims of 10-20cop
and you never batted an eye at that. At least I thought you were in that
group.

And you never seen a battery exceed the rated amount by being charged
with these machines? To me, that is a little strange. And what voltage
does the battery drop to when you determine that it is drained? Specifically,
what battery and what is it specs? You said "significantly" so you obviously
saw some increase over rated amount - but significantly is very subjective.
It either exceeded the amount or it didn't.

Mark
02-19-2010, 02:48 PM
TY SMW (Lee) for asking,
No the "Sharp" north's are apparently have nothing to due
with the "Imaginary Soth Poles".

Apparently the Norths only swamp the coils.

Please just watch John in the vid.

Sadly I was just banned from the Yahoo thread for being honest,
they sure don't wanting t to get out this is a 4k$ hoax...

I don't see how anyone could consider the 10 coiler a hoax since I have not seen any statements from John or Rick about its output or its capabilities. That is why I wait to see results from others who have purchased the kits! I hope to here great testing results soon.

Mark

smw1998a
02-19-2010, 03:18 PM
@Lee,

30-35% efficient, that would be a record for the worst ever, maybe.

80% tops? That may be your experience, but that has nothing to do with
what others have achieved. You can speak for your own
experience, but you can't speak for what is possible with the machines.

There are people with 50 years experience in physics but it doesn't mean
they ever really learned anything. I'm not saying that applies to you but
just making a point that many people do a LOT of experimentation, a lot of
bad experimentation. Are you? I don't know, you been at this a long time,
but you can also see in that OTG group there were also claims of 10-20cop
and you never batted an eye at that. At least I thought you were in that
group.

And you never seen a battery exceed the rated amount by being charged
with these machines? To me, that is a little strange. And what voltage
does the battery drop to when you determine that it is drained? Specifically,
what battery and what is it specs? You said "significantly" so you obviously
saw some increase over rated amount - but significantly is very subjective.
It either exceeded the amount or it didn't.

Hello Aaron,
Yes, I am a member of OTG. I don't recall a COP of 10-20 ever being claimed. If there were I would have looked into it thoroughly, I'm sure. I see absolutely no reason to discus what you see as my failings and this wasn't the purpose of my post. I simply suggested that Ren prove me wrong by load testing his batteries to asses his front to back efficiency. Which I estimate to be 30% based on his waveform. Whether or not Ren chooses to publish the result of such load tests or even tries the load tests is his business.
I'm tired of people asking honest questions based on there experience and being belittled or ostracized because their questions are awkward or not acceptable to their peers purpose. This is bad science and creates a very poor learning environment. Ignorance maybe bliss but feeding ignorance is a sin. As I have said, I understand the SSG very well, it will charge batteries, it does rejuvenate tiered batteries very well. In all the cases I have studied it doesn't do it with a high degree of efficiency.

I'll tell you what, If Ren chooses to do front to back load tests on his energiser. What ever his results, whether he chooses to publish them or not I will help him build a simple circuit that will increase the measured efficiency of his energiser by 20%.

Regards Lee...

WeThePeople
02-19-2010, 08:20 PM
If you honestly think John will put his name on a hoax, you are sadly
mistaken. And what you are saying is slanderous.


Wow, that was very harsh,
and no I didn't intend my observations of the facts
to be slanderous against John at all.

My point is that he says it is an exact copy,
when it is clearly not an exact copy at all.

I reworded my post to help eliminate that impression.

In fact, this clearly shows you did not watch the video above.

I have nothing bad to say about John whatsoever,
but I find fault that this kit does not use identical
magnet structure of the original wheel at all.

I even posted pics clearly proving that.



The opposing norths triggers the coil by inducing the current and the
transistor switched on when the voltage reversed on that base as soon
as those opposing norths leave the center of the core and moves away.


Again, had you watched the video,
you would see that is wrong too.

There ARE NO opposing norths in the kit.

Both the video I linked to above,
and at least two of the EFTV vids
both clearly show in detail,
and are narrated by John indicating
they "Trigger 22 degees after north".



The south fields are squeezing out between the norths and when the coil
charges north, that south is attracted to the coil's north. That south is
where some of the gain comes from as the magnets are PUMPS.


The purpose of the many individual welding rods
is to lower the amount of retained magnetism.





He has amplifiers
that are 30 years old still on the market being sold for thousands because
he has always only put his name behind QUALITY products - that is a FACT,
just watch Ebay sometimes.


Yes, those are awsome amplifiers :)

You forgot to mention his scaler wave CD revitalizers.

In fact John, (Not Rick) has made so many wonderful discoveries over the years,
that it will take decades after his death to just understand all his paperwork.

I still must maintain that Rick's version as a kit is not an exact copy,
and selling it representing it as an exact copy is indeed improper.

I'll refrain from using the "H" word though ...

DavidE
02-19-2010, 08:58 PM
Wow. In one way I am sorry that I started this thread, in another way I have learned a great deal about human nature.

If I had one bit of hesitation about John Bedini I would have never posted the inception thread. If he is willing to put his name on it, that is good enough for me. Whatever design he sanctions would likely be equal to or better than anything that had come before. If you don't like what you see, simply exercise your right to move along.

There are sides in the struggle to keep us grid energy dependent. I would hope that anyone here would fight for any opportunity that represents even shades of independence. Because if you don't, it would be a short walk to determine which side you are on.

Let's debate the potential, the technology, the ideas, but let's stop short of making this personal... unless of course, energy dependence serves you.

:thinking:

linesrg
02-19-2010, 10:54 PM
David,

Why should you regret starting the thread?

Either the device being sold is a direct copy of the original or it isn't. The implication in the promotional video is that it is and it would seem it may not be.

John B has a reputation with regard to previous relatively conventional endeavours such as his amplifiers - I wish they were more readily available here in the UK.

We have adverts here in the UK for a particular product where the punch line is that it does what it says on the can, I imagine there are similar ads all over the world.

The challenge with such as the 10-coiler is what does it say on the can?

Like Lee in this thread I am also a member of the somewhat vilified OTG group and like him I would love to know where the COP=10-20 came from.

As a group I would say we deal in facts and have the technical ability to build devices with sufficient precision and the ability to carry out documented tests.

We will continue to do this as a group and based on our results we will post support or criticism as required. We will do this in a calm and rational way without resorting to some of what we have seen elsewhere on this forum recently.

Regards

Richard

ren
02-19-2010, 11:02 PM
Hello Aaron,
Yes, I am a member of OTG. I don't recall a COP of 10-20 ever being claimed. If there were I would have looked into it thoroughly, I'm sure. I see absolutely no reason to discus what you see as my failings and this wasn't the purpose of my post. I simply suggested that Ren prove me wrong by load testing his batteries to asses his front to back efficiency. Which I estimate to be 30% based on his waveform. Whether or not Ren chooses to publish the result of such load tests or even tries the load tests is his business.
I'm tired of people asking honest questions based on there experience and being belittled or ostracized because their questions are awkward or not acceptable to their peers purpose. This is bad science and creates a very poor learning environment. Ignorance maybe bliss but feeding ignorance is a sin. As I have said, I understand the SSG very well, it will charge batteries, it does rejuvenate tiered batteries very well. In all the cases I have studied it doesn't do it with a high degree of efficiency.

I'll tell you what, If Ren chooses to do front to back load tests on his energiser. What ever his results, whether he chooses to publish them or not I will help him build a simple circuit that will increase the measured efficiency of his energiser by 20%.

Regards Lee...

Hi Lee.

I have done a significant amount of load tests, based on my own protocols. Perhaps I should share with you the protocol so that it could be considered/examined as to its scientific merit? All my simple tests were conducted years ago, when first starting on the BM3 group. I struggled to get good efficiencies out of my first few energizers, but they did run with minimum input, that is, the front end draw was below 300ma, and as low as 50ma. However the charging battery was always difficult to push over 13.2v without exceeding the front ends c20.

The best results I ever got were from thicker wire energizers, ones that pushed a little more current. On a bicycle wheel energizer I recorded the following results.

Wall charged 18aH primary resting on 12.9v
2 x 12aH parallel drained to 12.01v resting through a resistive load (light bulb).

7.5 hours run time had the primary resting on 12.04v, running the machine on 800ma for the first 5.5hours, and bumping it up to 900ma for the last 2 hours.

Charging bank had reached 14.5v in this time, and had a resting voltage of 12.64. I then drained the charging bank through a 10 watt rated globe, drawing 850ma on my analogue gauge. I drained it down to 11.86, and let it rest, resting voltage at 12.01 after an hour. Total time was 6 hours and 35min powering the load.

I didnt get this overnight, it DID take repeated cycles like John said it would. I found that if I didnt push that extra bit of current at the end of the run I couldnt get it to go over 13.4v, but that didnt always net the result I was after either.

I have come to some conclusions on the energizers, and one I will say right now is this: Battery charging is a greedy process. Conventionally it would not be unheard of to put 2-5 times the amount of energy into a battery than you get back out. Its one thing to push a battery up to 14.5v, its another to trickle charge it once its there. And what qualifies as a FULLY charged battery? I have gotten higher resting voltages and resulting longer discharges by using the SG as a float/trickle charger on batteries that have already hit 14.5v. So I am amazed that Johns process does as well as it does, with what is given.

So it is a difficult science to say the least. My above results were enough evidence to me that reasonable efficiencies were obtainable, at the very least, I couldnt warrant the discarding of that amount of energy anyway.

I would love to hear about your other circuit, as I am interested in all parts of this tech. I wont be doing any load tests on the small kit energizer however. From past experience I feel that it would net poorer results, partly because I do not have what I would deem the correct sizer batteries for it. I can see from using the 7 aH batteries that the energizer is poorly matched to charge them well. But I have always studied this device with a dream for the rotor to do more that what is shown. Therein lies its potential I feel, efficient collection and utilization of its inductive discharge is an important part, as nothing should go to waste, but I feel that it is only one part of the machine.

My experiences with Johns circuits have opened up my mind to a whole world of possibilities, who knows where they will lead. Perhaps I will be like others after years of research, angry or frustrated, or dissapointed at my findings/results. Perhaps it will turn into something more. Time will tell.

Regards

Aaron
02-19-2010, 11:48 PM
I don't see how anyone could consider the 10 coiler a hoax since I have not seen any statements from John or Rick about its output or its capabilities.

True.

I only stated what I witnessed but that has nothing to do with their
claims.

dambit
02-19-2010, 11:51 PM
OMG, there are some crybabies here. Sorry to put it that way, but that's the first term that came to mind.

"The machine doesn't have scalar norths, it must be a hoax, false advertising." QQ

How about you use some initiative and simply change the magnet arrangement, or ask Rick if he has a version of the rotor with a scalar north setup.

Sometimes I wonder.

Now that that's out of the way, time for my morning coffee.

Cheers,

Steve

Aaron
02-20-2010, 12:05 AM
Wow, that was very harsh,

There ARE NO opposing norths in the kit.

I thought Hoax was harsh. If that wasn't your intention,
then my apologies.

I'm sure someone that bought a kit might be able to
find 2 ceramics that are half the size of the one that
comes with the kit and make their own opposing sets
that would fit in the little plastic holder.

You get more mechanical work with normal single north
face and I know many people want as much power from
the rotor as possible.

elias
02-20-2010, 07:00 AM
Hi,

I don't know why are we always arguing? We know that Bearden has Claimed a COP of much greater than 1 in EFTV2 and also Bedini has claimed a COP of 7 or more, for his 8 coil machine, But he always insists that it depends on the battery. What I am curious about is how many charge and discharge cycles, does it require to get a COP > 5 for this machine?

One of my best achievements with the Bedini energizer is charging my razor with it, and I seldom require a recharge for it, it just works.

And I insist that, the 10 coil can be built with 1000$, and I will build it, as soon as I find the time, and money for it. It would probably take a month to build it.

Elias

WeThePeople
02-20-2010, 09:37 AM
Well with the 10-coil kit not being a copy of the real thing,
and that John has said in his vids it put 6KW into those batteries
(Noting that the pictures often said 10KW under them in PDF's).

I believe there is more to this dual magnet topic than is given credit.

I hear a lot of you saying you have direct contact with John,
if we refering to John Bedini in this case may I please ask
for a direct answer from John himself about this magnet pair issue.

Just one picture or diagram would be most helpful.

This isn't just some magnets pressed against each other,
look carefully at his video and you'll see much more is involved.

As far as coils and circuits, that is always an area that can be improved.

But it all starts with that wheel.

But with no specs on the kit, and a known value output on Johns,
An answer is called for on the amount his wheel plays in all this.

I read this again before I hit "Submit Reply",
I don't see anything that should start mudslinging.

But please understand I just want an answer
to what exactly is in John's real wheel.

It is my understanding it is patented,
so I hope he will share an answer.

But even an answer that he doesn't want to tell
would be better than no answer at all on this.

WeThePeople
02-20-2010, 11:11 AM
In the interest of getting it from the horses mouth so to speak,
I have been searching and have found an entire page of quotes.

These were to a forum by John himself.

I will copy/paste just the sentences about
the wheel on his personal 10-coil device.

He made those magnets himself,
and they are not store bought magnets pressed together.

Many of the terms I have tried to correct the usage of here
like scaler north instead of scaler south and others are mentioned.

Remember, these are John's own words,
not opinions, there is no room for disagreeing.

The full set of entries can be read in full context here:

John Bedini: SG Collected Posts (http://merlib.org/node/5836)

And the referenced patent #5,487,057 here:

Patent #5,487,057 (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5487057.html)

Sorry for the wall-o-words effect people...

*******************************************

John Bedini Quotes:

"I thought I would comment on the two north poles pushed together to form a mono pole. Yes we have used this for years and have built motors using this arrangement. In Patent number 5,487,057 you find
that we have used this for years in the audio clarifier, dual beam and Quadra beam. If you use this, the arrangement is awkward to mount. You are correct in what you have found and it works great . If
you choose to use this in a mono pole energizer the trigger is much stronger and it requires a change in the base resistors and the iron
in the coils. Look up the Patent.
John"

"Just about any steel wire will work for the core. I have only found a few that do not work. Check the iron with a magnet, if it retains the magnetism it won't work. The best I have found is the welding rod.
John"

"The normal rotor on the early machines can only develop a limited power level as can be seen by the pictures of the early machines, not so with the big rotary machine
for their is no magnetic fields like you have ever seen before on the rotor, it is based on full scalar electromagnetics of which I can not go into on the SG group. I can say that it requires full, Quaternion math, The machine does develop and is running on scalar fields. can also say that the trigger is not recorded or discussed anywhere on any of my pages and that I have not discussed it with anybody except Peter who works 24/7 with me every day without fail and it is from the year 1971 in my lab notes, and that the only other person that ever knew of this energizer was my good friend Ron Cole, dead now. That machine cost us 30.000 dollars to build. so there is nothing free about it. I can also say that it took about a month to machine all the parts and some could only be made by hand. The devices are not in any electronic stores at hand and must be selected for the proper impedance by buying 100's of them. So yes there is a lot to building this machine."

"What drives the wheel, the magnets around the wheel are only used for a trigger signal. What is driving the wheel is hidden from your view, what is hidden from your view is also the charging signal. The driving force of the wheel is scalar or magnetic south poles between the north poles. Make yourself a timing light by taking a green or red led with a 330 ohm resistor in series with it. Place skinny white strips down the center of the magnets around the wheel, connect the led across the coil and then tell me where the coil pulse is and what is driving the wheel.
The force that is driving the wheel is the same force charging the battery."

"The south pole scalar is the force that causes the motor/energizer to rotate, that force is equal to the charging radiant force, no current. Some have asked about, how do we get motor torque. If you
want torque then you give up the radiant charging. Another words if you add current to switch the north pole as a motor function you will lose the radiant charge and you can only have what the normal
reversal of the coil is, in back EMF, that is about 20%. Again if you use the motor function you will have no radiant energy for charging, please do not confuse the two functions."

"These systems do NOT capture "back EMF". Back EMF is not capturable. My patents say that my motor captures Back EMF because THAT is the only claim the Patent Office would accept. In reality, Back EMF is a term in electrical science that refers to the effect that reduces the current draw in a traction motor as the motor speeds up and generates a counter voltage that opposes the applied current. THAT is "back EMF." My systems do NOT use this process.
"

"The system consists of 24 1600 amp hour batteries, the box you see in the picture is a control manual switching box. the machine is constructed with 1" Plexiglas because everything interferes with the energy recovery. the load panel is lighting 1000 watts of light bulbs we have a maximum of 2.4 kw we can use, the coil arrangement is something that I can not talk about,"

"The big machine runs at 770 RPM, The big machines input current is 10
amperes. We only use 10% of the big batteries at 1600 amp hrs. The batteries can deliver 210 amps at 24 volts continuous for 8 Hrs, running these batteries at 10 amps is way under their C20 discharge rate. The cores are welding rod as I have always used, if you use a neo magnet you saturate the core the trigger does not work right."

"The magnets are made by me and I can not go into that, but I can say that it is standard material."

"The duty cycle of these machines is 11% on input. The idea is to not burn up much input power, the return is way over 450 volts in tension across 1 mill-ohm on the secondary batteries."

Aaron
02-20-2010, 11:35 AM
You answered your own question I guess.

John makes a lot of stuff himself from scratch - some things you wouldn't
believe.

Anyway, I doubt you're going to be able to easily make your own -
follow my advice, make sure they're all the same strength.

WeThePeople
02-20-2010, 11:43 AM
Thank you Aaron, I didn't mean to omit a TY in the previous post.

With so much conjecture on the topic,
I hoped to help out by referencing John.

I am however hoping someone in touch with John will ask
if a mere mortal could replicate that exact wheel themself.

Any info would be welcome! :)

Oh, and don't ask about the coils and trigger circuit,
It is my understanding that is not to be spoken about.

WeThePeople
02-20-2010, 11:56 AM
What does the acronym OTG stand for?

Google gives me to many answers...

I like "Old Timers Guild" myself,
or perhaps "Older Than God" lol.

EDIT/UPDATE:
I came back and deleted 78 acronyms to save forum space

The answer is "Off The Grid",
thank you Aaron

Aaron
02-20-2010, 11:59 AM
Off the Grid yahoo group

Mark
02-20-2010, 02:43 PM
Hello Plazma

I have a couple of questions for you.

In your 10 coiler kit did you only recieve just the aluminum rotor or did you also get a plastic one?

What kind of magnets did you recieve?

Does a single magnet go into the plastic holder?

Is the polarity of the magnet on the smaller ends?

Do you still plan on giving video footage of your results or have you been persuaded not to?

If those are neo magnets and its 1 magnet to a holder, I'm wondering if the tear drop shape cut in the aluminum rotor may cause some kind of a scalar field to be formed when pushed out of the smaller opening at the outer circumfrance of the rotor.

Mark

smw1998a
02-20-2010, 03:55 PM
Hi Lee.

I would love to hear about your other circuit, as I am interested in all parts of this tech. I wont be doing any load tests on the small kit energizer however. From past experience I feel that it would net poorer results, partly because I do not have what I would deem the correct sizer batteries for it. I can see from using the 7 aH batteries that the energizer is poorly matched to charge them well.

Regards

Hello Ren and All,
Firstly I must apologise for the direction this thread has taken. Also, to you Ren, as it would appear that I have pointed a finger straight at you and this is not the right or polite way to do things. The thrust of my argument is simply to dispel some of the ignorance, sometimes embodied as blind faith, in the understanding and capabilities of the SSG energiser, particularly, the new 10 coiler kit. There is far more to understanding the benefits of these devices than foolishly looking for free energy.

People assume lots of things based on what has been said or claimed in the many groups on the net. It is very difficult to separate, from initial statements of performance, the facts, which later turn out to be based on honest measurement error or most commonly, statments taken out of context. The initial statements are leapt upon with great enthusiasm and become a fact, the retraction or correction, if there was one, becomes largely missed and simply vanishes. Hence, ignorance becomes commonplace, not because of ignorant people but because of ignorance of the true facts. You can’t label students ignorant because their teacher was ignorant of the facts, no more than you can blame the teacher for the ignorance of the students, when the teacher faithfully taught the facts, as they were understood. The whole FE scene is replete with grand claims, some true, some in error and sadly, some which are plain fraudulent.

The FE community as a whole is left with a dilemma. What facts are correct, what facts are incorrect and what facts are fraudulent. We at OTG work through claims based on such facts. It’s not our fault, if experimentally we have to disagree, with such facts, as long as our methods are transparent and replicable. The circuit I offer will increase the efficiency of your kit SSG, as seen in your video. I accept that you feel that your batteries or method my not be best suited to this device, that’s OK. It doesn’t matter whether your SSG performs poorly, what ever it’s performance the circuit will increase that performance by 20% as long as you use the same load test method. The advantage with my claim is simple. This circuit will increase the performance of any SSG (including the 10 coiler kit) by 20% so if you get COP>1 you could add 20% to that with this circuit but expect to provide clear data and method if you do claim COP>1 so other may replicate an verify.

The SSG was very kindly put into the public domain by John Bedini himself. John has patents on the circuit and method. There is no quick buck to be made here. There are no NDA’s and no secrets. Keep the information honest, keep it public and keep it free.

Regards to you all

Lee

Mark
02-20-2010, 04:05 PM
Hello Lee

Your improvement on the SSG sounds interesting. I would like to take a look at it, are you going to post it?

Mark
02-20-2010, 04:08 PM
Hey Dave

Looked at your channels and I was very impressed by your builds! :thumbsup:

smw1998a
02-20-2010, 04:53 PM
Hello Lee

Your improvement on the SSG sounds interesting. I would like to take a look at it, are you going to post it?

Hello Mark,

Yes, I will make a video of how to build,use the circuit and to attach it to the SSG without any modifications to the SSG.

Give me a bit of time.

Regards Lee..

Plazma
02-20-2010, 05:28 PM
Hi Mark,

Sorry for the delay in responding - I almost missed your query due to the massive number of posts that are flying back and forth. I am waiting for delivery of the kit - so, I cannot answer your very appropriate questions but will be happy to do so when it arrives and I get into the build. However, if this thread continues in the current direction, I may have to leave and try to find a more peaceful environment. I am under a fair amount of physical/emotional stress having endured a major health incident just after Thanksgiving - I'm getting better - but I want to concentrate what time and energy I have on achieving a real understanding of the 10-coiler and what, if anything, it might offer. My background is in Control Systems and Industrial Instrumentation - not EE - but a lot of digital computer and embedded microchip work.

So, thanks for your inquiry, and I'll try to answer what I can as I'm happy to share - its important to build up a collective understanding of this massive change in scale represented by the 10Coiler. It would really be nice to attract a group of 10-coiler builders . . . we'll hope for that.

All the Best,

Plazma


Hello Plazma

I have a couple of questions for you.

In your 10 coiler kit did you only recieve just the aluminum rotor or did you also get a plastic one?

What kind of magnets did you recieve?

Does a single magnet go into the plastic holder?

Is the polarity of the magnet on the smaller ends?

Do you still plan on giving video footage of your results or have you been persuaded not to?

If those are neo magnets and its 1 magnet to a holder, I'm wondering if the tear drop shape cut in the aluminum rotor may cause some kind of a scalar field to be formed when pushed out of the smaller opening at the outer circumfrance of the rotor.

Mark

Dave Michael Rogers
02-20-2010, 08:02 PM
Sephiroth,
I've just been down to your lab, I like your builds, good job. Unfortunate title for your video though, which is true, except it isn't a motor.
Regards
Dave

Sephiroth
02-20-2010, 08:19 PM
Sephiroth,
I've just been down to your lab, I like your builds, good job. Unfortunate title for your video though, which is true, except it isn't a motor.
Regards
Dave

Thanks Dave :D I posted the vid on otg as well, guess it was missed.

The title gets people's attention :)

Mark
02-20-2010, 08:35 PM
Hello Mark,

Yes, I will make a video of how to build,use the circuit and to attach it to the SSG without any modifications to the SSG.

Give me a bit of time.

Regards Lee..

Thanks Lee I look forward to seeing it! :cheers:

Mark
02-20-2010, 08:45 PM
Hi Mark,

Sorry for the delay in responding - I almost missed your query due to the massive number of posts that are flying back and forth. I am waiting for delivery of the kit - so, I cannot answer your very appropriate questions but will be happy to do so when it arrives and I get into the build. However, if this thread continues in the current direction, I may have to leave and try to find a more peaceful environment. I am under a fair amount of physical/emotional stress having endured a major health incident just after Thanksgiving - I'm getting better - but I want to concentrate what time and energy I have on achieving a real understanding of the 10-coiler and what, if anything, it might offer. My background is in Control Systems and Industrial Instrumentation - not EE - but a lot of digital computer and embedded microchip work.

So, thanks for your inquiry, and I'll try to answer what I can as I'm happy to share - its important to build up a collective understanding of this massive change in scale represented by the 10Coiler. It would really be nice to attract a group of 10-coiler builders . . . we'll hope for that.

All the Best,

Plazma

No problem on the delay, sorry to hear about your health problems. I just recently retired (taking a few years off before finding a part time job for pocket change) and it seems like I have been battling some minor health issues for the last 2-3 months.

I thought that you already had the kit and had it partially assembled already. I must have been thinking of someone else. I would still appreciate it if you would let me know when you have the kit what is in it. Hopefully this thread will get back to more constructive issues but I must admit things get interesting when tempers flare. Hope you recieve your kit soon!

Mark

WeThePeople
02-20-2010, 09:29 PM
EDIT/UPDATE:
I went back and deleted 78 acronyms
from an above post to save forum space

The "OTG" acronym is "Off The Grid",
thank you for that Aaron.




In your 10 coiler kit did you only recieve just the aluminum rotor
or did you also get a plastic one?

A: Both (One each)


What kind of magnets did you recieve?

A: 1" x 1/2" x 1/2" Neo's (Approx)


Does a single magnet go into the plastic holder?

A: Yes


Is the polarity of the magnet on the smaller ends?

???
A: They are axial polorized, the N/S are on the long ends...


If those are neo magnets and its 1 magnet to a holder,
I'm wondering if the tear drop shape cut in the aluminum rotor
may cause some kind of a scalar field to be formed
when pushed out of the smaller opening at the outer circumfrance
of the rotor.

A: They are just plastic holders, there are only two in the aluminum disc,
It is the clear plastic rotor that is fully populated and used with the coils.
The aluminum one seems to be used for the light show and trigger.
They are very wisely triangular to grasp tighter from centrifuge.

************************************************** *******
Hope this helps,
I posted pics and vid links waaayy back there somewhere lol,
to save time here they are again...

Watch:
YouTube - OFFICIAL BEDINI 10 COIL KIT INFOMERCIAL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA2KtZ45nXA)

Save MP4:
Download OFFICIAL BEDINI 10 COIL KIT INFOMERCIAL video - savevid.com (http://www.savevid.com/video/official-bedini-10-coil-kit-infomercial.html)

Watch the time-lapse stuff at the end.

Mark
02-20-2010, 09:31 PM
I only read a handful of different threads on this forum and almost all of them have fighting on them with one common denominator.

The name calling is uncalled for and needs to stop. People should be able to state their opinions and/or facts as they see them without the name calling regardless of what someone else has said. Lets all take the high road please and get back to whats important.

If someone gets a cop of greater than 1 or 20% that is what they got, plain and simple. Take it with a grain of salt and move on.

Well I said my peace now I'LL SHUT UP!

Mark

Mark
02-20-2010, 09:37 PM
Thanks WE THE PEOPLE!

One more question if you dont mind. The aluminum rotor you said is used for the light show and the trigger. What do you mean the trigger, how is it used as a trigger?

Thanks again, Mark

WeThePeople
02-20-2010, 11:00 PM
When you watch the vid you'll see the clear plastic wheel
being fully populated with a c-clamp by Rick,
then you will see the aluminum wheel with only two magnets
being fitted to the back on the end of the shaft.

I have tried to find a frame to freeze and grab
that shows what the aluminum wheel spins past.

As neither wheel has arrived to the person providing pics,
and I cannot find a vid's frame to freeze and post.

I am only speculating on the aluminum wheel's
magnet's function, it may only be for just the lightshow.

But as the front end is tradional electromagnetic in nature,
(Johns own words...)
if they use the two magnets on the aluminum wheel.

They could do both the triggering with one magnet,
and lightshow with the other one with two small coils.

Thus leaving all ten octa-filer (8X) wound coils
to produce a full 80 power providing circuit paths.

But it would trigger only once per revolution,
so that answer would surprise me.

That is unless the aluminum wheel
gets fully populated in actuality.

I mean, except for balancing,
why machine all those notches?

To the first one that gets their wheels, etc.

Do they use the aluminum wheel for both
light show and trigger leaving 80 charge paths?

I'll post if I find out first.

ren
02-21-2010, 12:25 AM
Hello Ren and All,
Firstly I must apologise for the direction this thread has taken. Also, to you Ren, as it would appear that I have pointed a finger straight at you and this is not the right or polite way to do things. The thrust of my argument is simply to dispel some of the ignorance, sometimes embodied as blind faith, in the understanding and capabilities of the SSG energiser, particularly, the new 10 coiler kit. There is far more to understanding the benefits of these devices than foolishly looking for free energy.

People assume lots of things based on what has been said or claimed in the many groups on the net. It is very difficult to separate, from initial statements of performance, the facts, which later turn out to be based on honest measurement error or most commonly, statments taken out of context. The initial statements are leapt upon with great enthusiasm and become a fact, the retraction or correction, if there was one, becomes largely missed and simply vanishes. Hence, ignorance becomes commonplace, not because of ignorant people but because of ignorance of the true facts. You can’t label students ignorant because their teacher was ignorant of the facts, no more than you can blame the teacher for the ignorance of the students, when the teacher faithfully taught the facts, as they were understood. The whole FE scene is replete with grand claims, some true, some in error and sadly, some which are plain fraudulent.

The FE community as a whole is left with a dilemma. What facts are correct, what facts are incorrect and what facts are fraudulent. We at OTG work through claims based on such facts. It’s not our fault, if experimentally we have to disagree, with such facts, as long as our methods are transparent and replicable. The circuit I offer will increase the efficiency of your kit SSG, as seen in your video. I accept that you feel that your batteries or method my not be best suited to this device, that’s OK. It doesn’t matter whether your SSG performs poorly, what ever it’s performance the circuit will increase that performance by 20% as long as you use the same load test method. The advantage with my claim is simple. This circuit will increase the performance of any SSG (including the 10 coiler kit) by 20% so if you get COP>1 you could add 20% to that with this circuit but expect to provide clear data and method if you do claim COP>1 so other may replicate an verify.

The SSG was very kindly put into the public domain by John Bedini himself. John has patents on the circuit and method. There is no quick buck to be made here. There are no NDA’s and no secrets. Keep the information honest, keep it public and keep it free.

Regards to you all

Lee


Hi Lee,

No need for the apology mate, I wasnt offended or upset by your remarks. Infact I thought you approached the matters in a clear, level headed way, without pointing the finger or accusing, while also noting that none of us here are masters in the art.

Ive seen so many things taken out of context regarding Johns work it isnt funny. For example, alot of people jump on the TUV test results, expecting their "vanilla SG" to do this all day long, 1 battery to charge 12. When they fall dramatically short they label the whole thing a hoax. There are things about that test that just arent taken into account, like the fact that the batteries are being drained at well under their c20 rate, probably more like c5. Of course one must also consider the timeframe allotted for tests, its a bit hard to ask your visitor to "just wait overnight" till this test is done, I want to stick inside the c20 rates! So obviously some things need to be changed to accomodate.

In SOME ways its a bit like someone seeing a beautiful Monet or Picasso, inspired they go home with very little knowledge of the methods or arts they labor away and then get disappointed when it doesnt look like the one in the art gallery. But in other ways it is not like this I guess. So many people are looking at their glass being half empty instead of half full too.

@ Wethepeople.

I am confused by your remarks regarding the 10 coilers methods of trigger and generator actions. You seem to be saying a few times now that there are only two magnets on the aluminum wheel? And that it is only for light show and triggering?

Let me sum it up for you, I cant prove it because I dont have it here, but I am 99% sure its right. Both wheels will have magnets in them, in all the allotted spaces. The wheel that is aligned with the 10 radial coils (be it the aluminum or the acrylic) will act as the triggering device and the motoring function, as it has always been with rotor SG devices. There is no use for 10 coils around the circumference if there is only 2 magnets, unless one is opting for multiple phases, which John is not on this device. The wheel that acts as a generator will interface with another coil (apart from the 10 motor coils) as stated by Rick and others. In short, the rotor that does the triggering is the same one that will interact with the 10 power coils. Id be VERY surprised to find it being any different to this.

Regards

Aaron
02-21-2010, 12:42 AM
In this segment we show an actual lab test model that demonstrates the principles of the Bedini process. The main battery is here (point) and you can see the motor here. The motor is doing work by operating a fan blade and pumping air. Accumulators are located here (point) in which energy from the proprietary Bedini transformer (point) is being cumulatively collected eight times for each revolution. Once per revolution, precise switching (point) discharging of the accumulator transformer into the secondary battery (point) to charge it. In this arrangement, we show proof of principle by continuously doing work (pumping air) while continuously keeping the secondary battery charged. Periodically the batteries are switched and the former primary battery is charged. The excess energy comes directly from the active vacuum, through the negative resistor in the battery created by the Bedini process. In addition, we are demonstrating additional energy being obtained from excess collection in the transformer (point) eight times per rotation, and fed into the battery once per revolution to recharge the secondary battery. Another principle shown by this system is the superpolarity of the magnetic motor (point). The magnets all have north poles pointing outward. The compression and repulsion in the middle of any two poles creates a north pole whose field strength is several times larger than the field strength from each magnet. Thus we have formed eight “phantom poles”, to dramatically increase the field energy density in the magnetic field where the special transformer (point) collects additional energy (from the superpole flux cutting one of the coils, eight times per revolution of the rotor. The energy is collected in a accumulator transformer (point) and once per revolution it charges the secondary battery . The system demonstrates that the vacuum energy can be collected in several places and in different ways, collected in a proprietary accumulator transformer, and then used to very powerfully form a sudden negative resistor in the battery (point). - TB

WeThePeople
02-21-2010, 01:17 AM
@ Wethepeople.

I am confused by your remarks regarding the 10 coilers methods of trigger and generator actions. You seem to be saying a few times now that there are only two magnets on the aluminum wheel? And that it is only for light show and triggering?

Let me sum it up for you, I cant prove it because I dont have it here, but I am 99% sure its right. Both wheels will have magnets in them, in all the allotted spaces...


Yeah, I should have added at least a few pics to nindicate what I meant.

I'll go get larger ones, but reference these for now.

The first four show the fully polulated clear plastic wheel
that gets mounted inline with the ten coils (Pic to follow).

The next one shows the aluminum wheel with machined slots
only two machined slots are populated though.

The last pic shows that wheel being attached to the back
to the end of the shaft, with still only two magnets in it.

Back in a moment with better pics,
but looking at the vid was what I had hoped that
everyone would do so we are all on the same page.
(So to speak...)


Watch:
YouTube - OFFICIAL BEDINI 10 COIL KIT INFOMERCIAL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA2KtZ45nXA)

Save MP4:
Download OFFICIAL BEDINI 10 COIL KIT INFOMERCIAL video - savevid.com (http://www.savevid.com/video/official-bedini-10-coil-kit-infomercial.html)

Watch the time-lapse stuff at the end.

WeThePeople
02-21-2010, 01:36 AM
ok,
1st is the fully populated clear plastic disc
on the machine front's shaft's end,
with only three coils mounted.

2nd is the full ten coils mounted
and clear plastic disc in place.

3rd is the rear view of the machine
with Rick picking up the aluminum disc,
his hand obscures one of the magnets.

4th is the aluminum disc fully mounted,
it clearly shows only two magnets.

Sadly, it fades immediately after that exact frame
to Rick driving away in an electric jeep...

So this vid does not show what those two magnets trigger.

Mark
02-21-2010, 01:52 AM
Although the aluminum wheel only shows 2 magnets it doesn't make any sense that it would be used this way. There would be no reason to spend the extra money to have the extra holes cut out and the wheel would be way out of balance with the 2 magnets placed where they are. I think Rick was just trying to save time and didn't install all of the magnets. But I still don't understand why there are 2 rotors and why one is acrylic and one is aluminum. Hopefully when the instructions are sent out there will be an explaination.

Mark

WeThePeople
02-21-2010, 01:52 AM
As you know from dropping a round magnet down
inside an aluminum tube, the eddy currents exist,
it will fall slowly even though you consider it non magnetic.

It's the whole Paramagnetic thing.

The plastic wheel is the better choice for the working wheel,
and I agree to the mystery on the balance/usage on the other.



And to answer as to why I am short-sighted on the original wheel,
it is the obvious laminations on the edge,
the additional magnets on the shaft for normal magnetic south,
and the drawing that clearly shows what the whole thing means.

Your not going to get that out of SINGLE 1" Neo's,
I don't care how hard you try to do it.

Those big disc magnets on the shaft pull magnetic south,
the scaler south is what your harvesting for your batteries.

This is all possible because of the north-to-north pairs,
without that this simply cannot happen in my opinion.
(OH boy, here it comes...)

That is why the front end is normal magnetics and circuits,
and the secondary technique is what is so special.

No original wheel design to reference,
no real output expected as far as I'm concerned.

When that scaler south you see initially wrapping around
to the far end of the bi-filer to octa-filer coil gets 22-degrees further,
it is at the other end of the coil where the trigger and collapse occurs.

OK, 22.0-degrees to those that wanna be picky (360/8/2),
but as far as this machine it is of course 18.5-degrees (360/10/2)...

Even John gets that wrong in the dialog of a few videos,
probably figures we wouldn't notice, I know he knows better.

Now get the exact details for John's original wheel,
and pop it on this 80-path beast, I bet smiles would occur.

Mark
02-21-2010, 02:07 AM
In this segment we show an actual lab test model that demonstrates the principles of the Bedini process. The main battery is here (point) and you can see the motor here. The motor is doing work by operating a fan blade and pumping air. Accumulators are located here (point) in which energy from the proprietary Bedini transformer (point) is being cumulatively collected eight times for each revolution. Once per revolution, precise switching (point) discharging of the accumulator transformer into the secondary battery (point) to charge it. In this arrangement, we show proof of principle by continuously doing work (pumping air) while continuously keeping the secondary battery charged. Periodically the batteries are switched and the former primary battery is charged. The excess energy comes directly from the active vacuum, through the negative resistor in the battery created by the Bedini process. In addition, we are demonstrating additional energy being obtained from excess collection in the transformer (point) eight times per rotation, and fed into the battery once per revolution to recharge the secondary battery. Another principle shown by this system is the superpolarity of the magnetic motor (point). The magnets all have north poles pointing outward. The compression and repulsion in the middle of any two poles creates a north pole whose field strength is several times larger than the field strength from each magnet. Thus we have formed eight “phantom poles”, to dramatically increase the field energy density in the magnetic field where the special transformer (point) collects additional energy (from the superpole flux cutting one of the coils, eight times per revolution of the rotor. The energy is collected in a accumulator transformer (point) and once per revolution it charges the secondary battery . The system demonstrates that the vacuum energy can be collected in several places and in different ways, collected in a proprietary accumulator transformer, and then used to very powerfully form a sudden negative resistor in the battery (point). - TB


Aaron can you post a link to this video if its available.
Thank-you Mark

WeThePeople
02-21-2010, 02:42 AM
Quote:
"The compression and repulsion in the middle of any two poles
creates a north pole whose field strength is several times larger
than the field strength from each magnet."

Kinda says it all doesn't it?

Thanks Aaron, which vid is that from,
sounds like the EFTV one where he talks about the big one
while pointing to the little one and a diagram (See above)?

"...cumulatively collected eight times for each revolution."
"Once per revolution, precise switching (points) discharges
the accumulator transformer into the secondary battery"



I have just written (Again) someone that is awaiting their parts.

With some luck the magnet size/count can be confirmed,
and with additional luck a pick of what that aluminum disc
aligns with and passes by should yield some additional answers.

ren
02-21-2010, 03:05 AM
The plastic wheel is the only choice for the working wheel,
and I agree to the mystery on the balance/usage on the other.



.

No this is not the case.

John has used aluminum on a number of his designs. The 3 pole monopole is one of them.

I think we can safely say that the photo shows two magnets in place on the aluminum one because the other ones just havent been inserted yet.

Regards

WeThePeople
02-21-2010, 03:21 AM
Yep, your right.

It may not be best, but it will do.

Sorry I worded it that way, thanks.

I changed it from "Only" to "Better".

I was just looking at my zillion JB vids
looking for that passage Aaron quoted.

Gosh I think I'll just take a week straight
and fill a notepad file of JB quotes to reference.

Looking at them all at once might help.

If you have sat through the first 14 EFTV vids,
then you know what you heard on disc one
sure seems quite long ago by disc 14,
and I see there are three more to see now.

Then add several years of lecture and interview vids...

Aaron
02-21-2010, 05:19 AM
Quote:
"The compression and repulsion in the middle of any two poles
creates a north pole whose field strength is several times larger
than the field strength from each magnet."

Kinda says it all doesn't it?

Thanks Aaron, which vid is that from,
sounds like the EFTV one where he talks about the big one
while pointing to the little one and a diagram (See above)?

Oscillators and the mechanical oscillator (with wheel) are different
machines. This is why I said earlier in this thread that the magnets
are pumps.

Not EFTV.

stonewater
02-21-2010, 05:24 AM
they are a tricky thing, if you spin the aluminum and the magnet also no problems, it is when the moving magnet passes stationary objects, like aluminum you get the interference. I have a 6 pole scalar north rotor that is a replication of JB's 6 coiler, works great . the orientation is also a factor

WeThePeople
02-21-2010, 05:27 AM
Preface: I spell like crap,
please just let only amuse you, OK?

I'm sure we have all dropped a magnet down
a copper and an aluminum pipe by now,
or at least seen it done on YouTube.

Thank you StoneWater for the spinning tube addition.

But other than that I haven't fiddled much with the idea.

Ren pointed out something that is sticking.

I have passages in vids where on the one hand
John will say metal effects the effect,
and others where says it doesn't.

I am going to drop out for a week or so
and watch all these vids in a row again
consuming mass quantities of coffee
and review all his statements at once.



Ren, here is what you triggered,
and what I did to test that.

Is the aluminum wheel on the back a ruse?
we see the plastic on in place in that vid,
but go to the kit page and it sure looks aluminum.
See attached pic per usual.

http://rpmgt.org/10PoleMonopole.jpg

My point, is the aluminum a factor?

****************************

Before the bookworm types decend to slaughter me,
this is something I just did and the outcome of it.

Does it match current (Pun half intended) theory?

I took a couple of small 1/2" circular (No hole) magnets,
their Neo's, but not 42's, N-35's maybe.

I took two pieces of square aluminum stock
about 14" or 15" long that are 1/2" square.

And a few small host of ferrous objects.

The reluctance when I draw the magnets across
the aluminum feels about equal to me,
but I have no gauss gauge to be sure.

That is in reference to Aarons suggestion of matched pairs.

I'll purchase an appropriate hall effect sensor later.

****************************

When I put the north or south to a rod
(They are square, but rod is easier & shorter),
then I approach the test (ferrous) objects
the test objects (Ferrous) of course don't move.

When I hold the rod near the test objects first,
and move the north or south by,
very very little effect (barely).

But when I place the rod near the test objects first,
and hold the magnet in a pinch like a penny
and then swipe the magnets edge across the rod's other end,
there is slightly notable effect.

I suspect there is nothing new so far.

****************************

A dab of super glue and a pump clamp
combined the magnets two norths for test two.

As I had so little effect with the above,
I chose sewing needle this time.

Same nothing for either south,
no problem noticing edge swipes.

Very unexpededly stronger results in fact.

****************************

Ren, this is the idea that came to mind,
the above was draconian testing for myself.

It occurred to me that the aluminum being basicly
non-ferrous (paramagnetic) might actually assist those
magnets in John's real original 6-KW (His words) wheel.

They might work in unison with those center shaft magnets.



I took the second aluminum rod along with the first
and I place the side of each rod on to both souths.

To help people to visualize this. lay one square rod
(Probably an oxymoron...) on the table first.

lay one south down on the side of the rod at It's end.

Now lay the second rod in alignment in top of the first.

At one end the rods touch each other,
at the other end they sandwich the magnet pair.

I chose a heavy mailers rubber band to hold the set
tightly together so I could handle it easily.

Having involved the magnets now,
so I didn't have them to move across the ends.

I chose a phillips screwdriver within reach.

I held the ends of the rods that touched near the needle
and passed the screwdriver past the other magnet pair end,
I pointed it straight at the rod so as to lineup.

I moved the screwdriver past the magnet pair,
like the welding rods move past the magnets.
(I know it is magnets past coil core...)

I'm still looking for that needle, and a steel BB too.

I sure hate not having a camera at the moment,
would have saved everyone this long soliloquy.
(OK, I looked up the spelling of that one...)



First, why didn't it attract, but repel voilently ?

Second, why did they launch with such force?



I envision aluminum spokes that start at the center,
and just before each pair of N><N magnets are reached,
turn into a forked "Y" encasing the souths completely.

Put the the norths of some ring magnets on the axle
pointing inwards to attract those souths down the aluminum,

then use the scaler souths that are not trapped in that cycle.



John is an amazingly smart man,
that isn't stricken by false education.

If john put magnets north to north,
and additional magnets on the shaft.

You can sure bet he had good reason
for doing that in the first place.



OK, how far have I wandered from plausible,
and why did the aluminum do that?

****************************

For the love of pizza don't quote this whole thing,
it is such a waste having to scroll past stuff
a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, infinite number of times.

Trim it down until only the stuff
you want to comment on is left,
Thanks.
(Some, like me, already do this.)

WeThePeople
02-21-2010, 06:56 AM
Stiall awaiting the email reply from one of the purchasers,
however here is another twist.

An aluminum version with 20 magnets...sigh...

YouTube - TheShirkinator's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/TheShirkinator#p/c/E643CC3172A5092B/11/CLaX3OEGuJ0)

ren
02-21-2010, 07:12 AM
?

There was always 20 magnets on the aluminum wheel....


Im not sure what you are trying to say.....:confused:

Aaron
02-21-2010, 07:39 AM
Aaron can you post a link to this video if its available.
Thank-you Mark

I might be the only one that was given a copy - perhaps a few others but
I can't give it out. I posted the text because that excerpt was posted
at one point.

WeThePeople
02-21-2010, 09:24 AM
TY for interaction,


?
There was always 20 magnets on the aluminum wheel....
Im not sure what you are trying to say.....:confused:


Spaces to populate with magnets yes,
populated in "Official Vid" no!
And there is only 10 in that video
on both wheels, go look.


I did what no other did and ask if it was an official release.

But a vid documents an aluminum fully populated (Byron).

YouTube - TheShirkinator's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/TheShirkinator#p/c/E643CC3172A5092B/11/CLaX3OEGuJ0)

He said something about a skiing trip,
so I'm not writing for a while.

He may have assumed and populated that wheel ahead of instruction.
(Getting info that mechanical instructions(5-pages) are included, electronics instruction to follow.)

All I can say with certainly is that a purchaser
has already recieved older components.



Look, I was just in the B3 forum and saw that only assembly info was in the kit delivered,
something like five sheets,
the electrics are still (Admittedly) being processed for release.

That is not a opinion, it is customer testimonial.

We need to give this time !


I might be the only one that was given a copy -
perhaps a few others but I can't give it out.
I posted the text because that excerpt was posted
at one point.


Thank you for indicating I need to look further than EFTV vids.

There is high likelyhood I have that vid too.
(Tell you in a week.)

Aaron
02-21-2010, 11:16 AM
Thank you for indicating I need to look further than EFTV vids.

There is high likelyhood I have that vid too.
(Tell you in a week.)


The vid is about 8 years old.

The quote I posted refers to capacitive discharge systems with
mechanical switch. But some of the explanation of course applies
to any of the rotor systems.

Mark
02-21-2010, 01:49 PM
I'm a little mixed up!

Ren or anyone can answere this, are you saying that on JB's rotor that there are magnets also located near the center of the rotor and that they have their south poles pointed outward? And that in combination with the other circumfrance magnets that a scalar south pole is created which extends outward and in between the outer magnets. (If you can follow that)

I've seen the picture that was posted a few posts back but never really gave it much thought, but had no idea there were other magnets other than the ones on the outer rim of the rotor. (Assuming I understand correctly)

Mark

Mark
02-21-2010, 01:53 PM
We the people,

I've read over your last post a few times and I'm having trouble visualizing what you have done with the magnets and aluminum.

The one point that blows my mind, if I understand correctly, is that your metal objects were pushed or repeled by the magnet and aluminum set up. Is that correct? If it is could you please try to reword what you did so I can replicate it.

Mark

Plazma
02-21-2010, 05:56 PM
Hi Mark,

If I understand WTP, perhaps a couple of analogies might help one visualize his experiment - visualize an alligator clip or an ice tong (the kind used for small ice cubes) . . . in this case the 'ice cube' is a pair of N35 neodym circular magnets (no center holes allowed) glued North face - to - North face and 'grabbed' in the jaws of the small ice tong (or alligator clip).

Now replace the functions of the ice tong or alligator clip with two pieces of 1/2"x1/2" aluminum square stock say 8-12 inches long strapped length-wise together tightly with a big rubber band. The SNNS-magnet assembly is slipped in between the two aluminum struts at one end of the strut assembly and held in place by the tension in the rubber band. The South Poles Faces are parallel to and in close contact with the opposing inner faces of the struts. The displacement by the thickness of the magnets as sandwiched between the struts at one end causes a very shallow, "V" - shaped gap between the two struts where the terminus of the "V" is at the far end of the strut assembly - sort of like the ice tong or alligator clip analogy except no physical hinge and the tension is caused by the rubber band instead of a spring.

When WTP brought the tip of a screwdriver in close to the edge of the magnet assembly, where the shaft of the screw driver was parallel to the axis of the struts (and perpendicular to the end faces of the struts), he claims a massive/explosive rejection of ferrous objects in close proximity to the other end of the strut assembly (the "V" nexus end).

Sounds like a very interesting experiment and I, like you, am very curious about the "use of additional magnets on the shaft of the energizer". I hope to learn a lot more when my order arrives . . .

@WTP - Hope you don't mind my explanation, and if I mis-interpreted what you did, then please correct my attempt as this is a neat experiment and may help to explain some things (like 'Scalars') as we try to go forward.

Best,

Plazma

PS - I do have a decent Hall-Effect GaussMeter in my shop - very tricky to use - generally have to do experiments in the house far removed from the shop as the masses of metal in my lathe and milling machine can affect results. One can 'null' out some background effects, but only to a point. A lot depends on what is in the immediate area and what is running. WTP has suggested a lot of future tests/experiments using this meter and I very much appreciate the insights in his posts:thumbsup:

We the people,

I've read over your last post a few times and I'm having trouble visualizing what you have done with the magnets and aluminum.

The one point that blows my mind, if I understand correctly, is that your metal objects were pushed or repeled by the magnet and aluminum set up. Is that correct? If it is could you please try to reword what you did so I can replicate it.

Mark

Aaron
02-21-2010, 07:12 PM
are you saying that on JB's rotor that there are magnets also located near the center of the rotor and that they have their south poles pointed outward? And that in combination with the other circumfrance magnets that a scalar south pole is created which extends outward and in between the outer magnets. (If you can follow that)

IF this is what it is, I was the first to show this online almost 10 years ago. It was
shortly after I first met John. To me it was an obvious thing to try.

I found on a little roller skate wheel sg that if I put magnets on
the shaft, I could get the rotor to speed up or slow down. At first I simply
tried placing magnets flat down on the shaft and that didn't do much
and since the shaft was not fixed to the bearing, the bearing slid on the
shaft, I pulled the shaft until a flat end was very close to the center of
the wheel - maybe 2 inches was the closest while still letting it be in the
upright. Shaft was fixed. Roller skate wheel with bearing rotated around
shaft.

I put little neos flat against the end of the shaft north facing in and
south facing in to try both. One speed it up and one slowed it down.
I tried other variations later with ring magnets one on each side of
the shaft slid over so that I could push them close to each other towards
the center of the wheel. Obviously they repel regardless if they're north
or south facing each other.

At the time, I only saw the ability to increase or decrease the north
facing out from the magnets on the rotor.

When John was starting tests with the opposing magnet configuration
for the SG (he already had been using the opposing magnet configuration
on is clarifiers) - he showed me and was using a magnetic field finder and
showed me how all the fields were mapped out around the rotor. When
he showed me the south fields that were squeezing out between the
north faces, then I got it.

The magnets on the shaft near the wheel if south was facing in I saw as
strengthening that south scalar field pushing out between the magnets
and with north facing in to the wheel, it would reduce the strength of
that south field.

It's been too long so I don't recall right away which one sped it up and
which one slowed it down. But if you have a setup with a steel shaft
or something, you can place some round neos on the end of the shaft
if close enough to the wheel center and you will see that one side will
increase rpm and one will reduce.

After I posted this online way back then, I do not recall anyone taking
any interest in it. And you're the first to describe anything even remotely
close to this.

WeThePeople
02-21-2010, 09:20 PM
I'm a little mixed up!
...are you saying that on JB's rotor that there are magnets
also located near the center of the rotor
and that they have their south poles pointed outward?

And that in combination with the other circumfrance magnets
that a scalar south pole is created which extends outward and in between the outer magnets. (If you can follow that)

I've seen the picture that was posted a few posts back
but never really gave it much thought,
but had no idea there were other magnets
other than the ones on the outer rim of the rotor.
(Assuming I understand correctly)
Mark


In a word, yes

To be clear, although you are right,
I am referring to John's, not the kit.

And of course John's sketch above.

Somewhere way back in this pissing contest snowstorm,
I attached pics of John's 6-KW wheel, if you can find it.

Those are additional disc magnets on that shaft.

I should also clarify for all readers,
that I do not know which way they face.

But south out / north in on the shaft
would make the shaft north and attract
the souths comming off all the perimeter magnets.

The perimeter magnets are always north out.

There are not magnet pairs with sharp norths in the kit,
nor are there shaft magnets in the kit either as far as I know.

So yes, the magnetic south heads towards the shaft,
and the scaler south of neighboring SNNS pairs
wraps together and meets the coils cores
between magnet pairs at 18.25-degrees (365/10/2).
They are triggered around 22-degrees after
the actual magnet pairs sharp norths have passed the cores.

Gets more complicated :rolleyes: the "Official kit vid shows ten magnets
on both the clear plastic and the aluminum wheels.

The YouTube link in my recent post has twenty magnets.

And the kit vid shows the plastic wheel for the coils,
and the aluminum one on the back.

I now question if a wheel even gets put on the back,
Rick might have been just screwing around there,
and checking the fit of those two collets on each side...

As the paperwork for the electronics has not arrived to builders yet,
only about five sheets of mechanical assembly notes so far
that is what I am gathering from purchasers in the Y's monopole group.

it was mentioned by Rick that the electronics sheets
should be clear for release real soon.

Like I said in previous posts,
we just need to wait until purchasers get all their stuff.

Oh, and Aaron has more to say
on the shaft magnets in post #139.

Everything you need to know is in John's sketch, promise.

******************************


We the people,
I've read over your last post a few times
and I'm having trouble visualizing
what you have done with the magnets and aluminum.

The one point that blows my mind,
if I understand correctly,
is that your metal objects were pushed or repeled
by the magnet and aluminum set up.
Is that correct?

If it is could you please try to reword
what you did so I can replicate it.

Mark


Yeah, I hated painting a picture by words...

Yes repel is correct, boy was I surprised.

I even did it a second time with a BB in disbelief.

Forgive the crappy M$-Paint line-art scribble,
my HP all-in-one wont scan a sketch if ink is out, :rolleyes:
what those two things have to do with each other escapes me. :wall:

See the attached pic at the end Mark

This was the last test,
and the screwdriver shaft remained lateral
as I passed it past the magnet pair.

Or to put it another way,
straight down in the pic
keeping it lateral.

Also in your follow up post you said:
(Post #137) "no center holes allowed",
I only indicated they didn't have holes,
as often thin disc ones do have holes.

It was not a requirement if that clarifies.

I liked the star trek sounding referrence too:
"the "V" nexus end", I kinda chuckled on that on.

******************************

peper10, it saddens me you don't see the relevance
of the aluminum tests I did to the ten coil machine.

Although the initial tests I made were for me (Draconian),
the last one is directly tied to John's 10-Coil machine's function.

Agreed, I am talking about John's machine,
and not the current kit available,
that is unless it has an aluminum wheel...

The "Official" vid shows both,
the kit page looks aluminum,
and now a purchaser (Post #127 link)
has an aluminum wheel with 20 magnets,
unlike the the 10 shown in the kit vid.

Only time will sort this all out.

This will be my last post on the matter.

******************************

Well I hope I at least got you thinking,
or you found all this amusing at least.

I also hope I have not offended anyone.

I am also sorry I used the word hoax,
I went right back and edited it out.

But I maintain this, and you'll agree if you look:
John says it is an exact copy in the "Official" vid,
THAT KIT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE if you compare them!

The kit with John's wheel and shaft magnets I'd let slide.

That was why I chose that word.

******************************

I am finding the non-stop crap
all but impossible to surf now.

If anyone is actually moderating this site,
start at page one and peel each and every
"Pissing Contest" post out and put them
in a new thread labelled "I Wanna Whine",
or something appropriate please.

I'm leaving this site because of it...

Be well all and good luck,
please ask no questions of me,
they will go unanswered as I won't be back.

If anyone from OTG that reads this here,
and thinks my contributions and conduct are fit,
(And if my spelling isn't to horrible...)
would you send me an invite please, thank you.

And do try the aluminum thing,
I did note after the fact the screwdriver had
a small amount of magnetism as most do.

Not quite enough to pick up a standard computer screw.

Bye

Aaron
02-21-2010, 10:29 PM
I moved the thread to OTG--------------False Accusation thread.
I do not know how it turned into 3 different threads of the same
name on each move. I can only move posts from one page at a time
I thought. Anyway, they're moved and any posts on the otg issue
will be deleted if posted here. They are there for the record and
the 3 threads with all the moved posts are closed so nobody can
post. They will simply drift to the bottom of the list. When the OTG
guys have a chance to see this post, I'll delete this post from
this thread.

Aaron
02-21-2010, 10:54 PM
Oh, and Aaron has more to say
on the shaft magnets in post #139.

What I said about the magnets on the shaft are facts, anyone
can try it. BUT... is that on the 10-coiler? I would have to check
so don't take my explanation as a verification of that for the 10-coiler.

Murlin
02-21-2010, 11:28 PM
Those are some pretty ingenious holders for the neos. Wonder what they were originally used for...:thinking:

Kinda sorry I asked the question on the aluminum rotor.

I still don't have a clue....none of the speculation at this point has cleared that up to my satisfaction yet...

Since this thread is getting locked...the world may never know...

edit oops...maybe not getting locked now....hope not...


regards.


Murlin:peacesmiley:

Aaron
02-21-2010, 11:34 PM
Murlin,

I locked the threads where I moved the otg related posts to - not this
one.

Mark
02-22-2010, 01:56 AM
Plazma, Aaron, We The People

Thank you for responding to my questions. This new insight has really got my brain reved up!

I mentioned the shape of the milled holes a few posts back was interesting and believe that it may have an unusual effect on the magnetic fields, but I know very little about the science.

We The People, I hope you will change your mind and stay I think you have made some good contributions to this thread.

Thanks everyone, (I'll probably be up all night now and wont be able to shut my brain off! :rofl: )

Mark

Aaron
02-22-2010, 04:41 AM
Mark,

You can left click on his name at the top left corner and send message
but if he doesn't check you can send email if it is enabled.

-----------------------

@Luther - please check your private message. There is no issue with you.

-----------------------

@Dave - I asked to finish the otg issue but I hope this does it.

Please post this to otg to Jack and/or Luther that I forgive you Jack for
what you did - you said said you were going to set it straight in otg
on the phone to me, but apparently you never did. In either case I forgive
you and I do not want your apology anymore and I'm not worried
whether you set it straight or not. I know that I never betrayed anyone.

@Luther, please check your private
message if you're still registered. I don't want anyone to feel responsible
for something they're not responsible for. I forgive you if you did something
wrong but I don't think you did but I hope that makes you feel better. The
only ones I ever thought were responsible were the ones that ganged up
on me in your group accusing me of betraying everyone's trust etc...
when it was all phony and concocted. There were several of them and
I never even mentioned them. Anyway, there should have been facts
checked by those multiple members who repeatedly slammed me for
something I never did and I don't recall that you were one of them. Either
way, no hard feelings Luther, I always respected you.

@Dave/Lee/Richard, I apologize for my aggressive rebuttal. I do not
apologize for speaking the truth.

Mark
02-22-2010, 05:03 PM
We The People

You may not come back to this forum or thread again but I wanted to thank you one more time for posting this sight: John Bedini: SG Collected Posts (PDF) | MERLib.org (http://merlib.org/node/5836)

I have not finished it yet but has great information.

One of the comments JB has posted numerous times that I don't understand is that the rotor is not powered by the the north pole facing magnets on his 10 coiler. He says it is powered by the scalar south. I understand that his rotor is different than what I have used but I believe the rotor is still pushed by the north facing magnet.

When I was checking my coils to make sure I had them wound correctly is I would just put a magnet close to the coil and touch the coil wires to a battery to see if the wheel was pushed away or attracted to the magnet.

I the coil fired a north field near the scalar south it seems like it would cause a lock up or cogging effect.

I remember one set up I had where I was able to switch my power coil wires to fire south or in attraction mode and at the time appeared to work the same. Hmmm

Smw1998a

Hope you are still going to post information on improving the SSG circuit you mentioned.

Mark

Mark

smw1998a
02-23-2010, 02:23 PM
Smw1998a

Hope you are still going to post information on improving the SSG circuit you mentioned.

Mark

Mark

Hi Mark and All,
Yes, I'm still working on it. There are no modifications to the SSG circuit required. This is important to remember.

Regards Lee...

Aaron
02-26-2010, 02:59 AM
http://www.energeticforum.com/17709-post433.html
For anyone who has not been involved with the Bedini SG group that was recently closed, I compiled the messages from John Bedini as he was posting them. I only have this from The end of Feb until a few days ago and it has a lot of valuable information that he has never really discussed openly before.

This link is the PDF: John Bedini SG (http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/john_bedini_group_comments.pdf) yahoo group comments , it is 91 pages

It might take a few hours to go through this, but if you want to learn about the SG, it is best to hear straight from John.

I have re-enabled this document since it rightfully belongs in the public
domain as it ALREADY is in the public domain since every message is from
the Bedini SG yahoo group.

John Bedini SG (http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/john_bedini_group_comments.pdf) here it is, 91 pages pdf.

I removed this document quickly after accusations came up that I copied
the posts from a private group, which actually never happened. Any
messages that were originally in a private group and were placed into this
document is because John placed them into the public Bedini SG group
himself. Therefore, I took them from the public group and placed it into
this document.

There is a lot of good information in this document that I would recommend
that anyone read this document that is interested in the SG.

dambit
02-26-2010, 04:06 AM
As you know from dropping a round magnet down
inside an aluminum tube, the eddy currents exist,
it will fall slowly even though you consider it non magnetic.

It's the whole Paramagnetic thing.




Your right about aluminium, but when the metal is moving with the magnet no eddy currents are produced. Relative to each other, they are not moving.

Cheers,

Steve

smw1998a
03-06-2010, 11:51 PM
Hello Lee

Your improvement on the SSG sounds interesting. I would like to take a look at it, are you going to post it?

Hi Mark and All,
I have started a new thread HERE (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5481-otg-pulse-generator-paper.html#post87923) so as not to distract from this subject. There is a link to a paper describing the circuit.

Regards Lee.

ewizard
03-07-2010, 02:23 AM
deleted post per request of member (not Admin).

Schpankme
03-13-2010, 11:56 PM
Classic!

As the master of the shaft'; how is your Kromrey Converter coming' ?

It's been about 10 months since you gave an update on your Kromrey; does it charge batteries better then your Solid State Charger?

MK2 Solid State Charger
YouTube - SJohnM81's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/SJohnM81#p/u/6/aHg2C5yaFog)

1:26 "You don't need the wheel anymore, but people still like to look at it!" - SJohnM81

- Schpankme

The phaonmneal pweor of teh hmuan mnid.

albertMunich
03-27-2010, 05:26 PM
Hello to everyone out there!
I am following very closely the news about the 10 coil Bedini machine from Rick Friedrich.
I have made several Bedinis myself and my largest one has a 20 pound rotor and three five-strand coils of 1 mm wire. coil impedances are between 0.8 and 1.2 ohms.
14 transistors...
I would like to point out several things and give you some thoughts here.

I like the multicoil machines because they can deliver a substantial charge to substantial batteries. Yet the basic circuit is quite simple.

My own machines ALL work at 24 or 36 Volts and only come to life at these higher voltages. (On the Input).- On the output I like to stay at 12 volts putting several batteries in parallel. About 120 aH at the moment.

On the biggest machine the "radiant spikes" go over the top of the scope screen at 25 V/div. setting.

Last week I FRIED the machine completely by NOT connecting the output (well deserved you idiot I thought...). the transistors EXPLODED like firecrackers before the wheel had made a half turn. Bang bang bang....
Now if this happens with an 80 transistor machine you will creep to a corner and cry. If the transistors are SOLDERED IN you might not even be able to use the pcbs anymore.
The ole Neon lamp does not work as a safety catch anymore on the bigger multicoils.
Now I understand what risk John B is taking with this big machine of his having a 1600 aH Battery in the back room. this will fry the building probably if he makes a mistake.
I think he said that he smoked the machine once this way.
Now i am rebuilding my machine with MJL transistors and I throw out the BD 243 Cs that I used before.
The transistors will be screwed in (blocks) and not soldered anymore.
I think Rick is doing pioneering work by putting his kit to the market. I only hope that he will not be swamped by lawsuits from people who will either claim the machine is not powering their house or blow themselves up or shock themselves and so on. This is not a toy. If your output battery pack is not strong enough it will probably fly apart....
I have a question for the more experienced gurus here: On my BD 243 transistors- the machine is basically a replica of the Ron Pugh Machine described in Patrick Kellys free energy book-I use a set of 470 ohm base resistors. Do you have a ballpark figure for the fixed base resistor on a MJL 21194 transistor machine? This draws lots of current in the base and trigger circuit and I do not think a wire wound pot will work for the trigger control.
I think the fixed resistor will have to be at least 1/2 watt power. And a pot would have to be 10 watts or more. that correct?
The machine as it was before drew between 2 and 5 amps on a 36 volt supply. I charged not on the one pulse per magnet sweet spot but with 2 or 4 pulses per magnet. On the BD 243 C s the rotor quickly overspeeded and I had to use a speedbrake (piece of aluminum as an eddy current brake) next to the rotor to bring the speed down and keep the machine at "my" sweet spot for charging. This does not seem to be a problem on the MJLS.
Hope to be able to post some pics soon!

Albert

ren
03-28-2010, 06:41 AM
Hi Albert.

Ive pushed the multifilar circuit to over 120v input. It performs remarkably well considering.

YouTube - 120v Bedini monopole (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Mi90gEdSE)

Ive placed a capacitor over the output, its saved me a few times from popping circuit components

Regards

albertMunich
03-28-2010, 07:19 AM
There are other questions I have about the Rick Friedrich kit, and only a few have been answered by Rick himself, whom I contacted by E-mail. I don't want to use up too much of his time since he's certainly very busy...and I think these questions might be interesting to you here so I will repeat them:

1. We all agree that the Bedini machine is essentially a conductor or pump for the radiant energy. There is a lot of dissense about what this energy may be. Somewhere else on this forum there's a thread about the radiant spike and what it might be, with scope shots. My own scope shots look basically the same as the ones on this thread. To me it seems clear that the radiant energy effect is an RF phenomenon. Whether it is a longitudinal wave form that of course would not show or read on our scopes and meters or whether its an "ether gas" I cannot say. Even after years of experimenting with it.- The important point to remember here is that IF we have to deal with some form of RF here the machine has to obey the laws - or at least some of them- of RF construction and design. This is why so many of us FAIL to make these machines work properly-Everything becomes important in RF construction as the details may be effective BARRIERS for the radiant energy. So we might wind up with a machine that to our measuring equipment might work well but in reality does not deliver the energy or waveform that is supposed to charge and condition our batteries.

2. The machines I have made produce all a lot of RF noise on the radio- on longwave bands. You hear the transistors switching, and the typical chirps of PWM can be heard when you turn the pot and the machine goes thru the resonance points. On the bigger machines this might be a problem if you live in an urban area and bring down radio or other communications all around your shop.If you use filters you will kill the radiant. Catch 22.

3. So where are the definite guidelines for the WIRING of such a machine- do we need the copper tubing or thick copper wires to collect the radiant? On Ricks prototype nothing of the kind was seen. In RF, the wires to the machine and from the machine are extremely important, look at Bedinis big machine he uses the thickest available wire to keep the impedance as low as possible. Should the boards be directly next to the coils? do we need WAVEGUIDES just like in a microwave oven?
Other issues with the prototype: If you look at the CAD drawing on Ricks site, the coil holders are mounted on the top end of the coils. I pointed out to Rick that in the prototype the coil holders are right next to the rotor. This would be a perfect speedbrake if the coil holders are metal.
I know that VIBRATION is an issue in the multicoil machine and I guess Rick had the coils vibrating heavily when he mounted the coils at the top end and left the end next to the rotor essentially unsupported. The noise from ten vibrating coils would be deafening.
Trigger: The most important detail of them all.We are left in the dark about the trigger system on Johns 10 coil machine. the 12 volt lamp goes on when he turns on the sense switch but the machine does not turn yet. On all of my own designs the lamp will only light up when the rotor turns and the trigger current starts to flow. Perhaps John is using some kind of optical or hall switching? Or does the machine resonate when he turns it on? will the MJL transistors turn on fully when you use only one trigger thread off the coils? How do you tune the machine if there is no pot and the resistors are soldered in? How do you set it to different input voltages?
Aaron-you say that you have seen John run his big machine many times to charge the huge batteries he has recovered from the surplus. How many charge-discharge cycles did it take before the battery banks responded to the radiant on this large scale system? Probably hundreds of cycles...
I think this might be shortened by using one of these powerful machines but only if its properly tuned. So for us replicators and experimenters out here the cat bites its own tail- how to condition the batteries if we cant be sure the machine creates the proper signal?
So to avoid wrong expectations and disappointments we need to address these issues before we tackle to make a large Bedini machine. My call goes out to you people who are close to the source- Peter, Aaron, Rick, to give us some more information. If its already out there it is so dispersed in the various forums that it will take a year to dig it all out.Perhaps Ricks machine might serve as a model to help us clear these issues. I will order one and try to get it working IF I can get answers to the pertinent questions first- and I will have to get my own smaller machines to run well first. This is a step by step process and a learning curve but we simply do not have the time to go to all the pitfalls and dead ends ourselves and reinvent the wheel if someone has been there before.
Ricks machine is great in some of its design points- I like the solid shafts, the possibility to mount several rotor discs, the wedge shaped magnets that might not fly off so easily, the modular design and so on. A perfect base for a lot of experimentation. So if any of you has it on his bench lets hear what you are getting out of it and share the experiences please.

albertMunich
03-28-2010, 07:30 AM
Hi Ren-
wow the video blew my mind - I had thought the MJLs might hold up to this kind of "abuse" but would not try it because my rotor would jump out the window if I did. Even at 1000 rpm its impressive since it is much bigger and I have some balance issues.Will the charge batts hold up to this kind of slamming?

As you say a lot of high wattage resistance is necessary on the trigger here. what is your resistor value? I think I'll discard my printed circuit boards and go to a hardwired approach as you did on the final build. Wonderful work.

albertMunich
03-28-2010, 08:07 AM
I ran upstairs and shot some pix. Here is Machine 3:

albertMunich
03-28-2010, 08:11 AM
The wire is probably the equivalent of 19 AWG- litzed in 5 strands and spun with a fine silk covering. Made to order. So you see I have some very low impedance coils. Might be wrong?!

albertMunich
03-28-2010, 08:12 AM
Since the wires are pretty thick there are not too many turns on each coil...

albertMunich
03-28-2010, 08:19 AM
Here you see the windings. This machine ran well on the BD 243 Cs but since I blew it I decided to put in the MJLs and I can't seem to get it up and running again....the base resistors are all wrong.On the 243s I could get this to run in solid state mode / 36 Volts in 12 volts out. Charged my 100 AH batts in 12 hours. But the 243 Cs are a bit too fragile for my tastes and my stupidity...

albertMunich
03-28-2010, 08:23 AM
The backstage wiring is a mess right now and I am working on it. As you can see I put the transistors on blocks to be able to change them without ruining the boards by solderin them in and out.
I will finish this properly once I get the right values...

All of this brings us back to the issue of Ricks machine. Image all this multiplied many times and you have the complexity of his machine. I won't go any bigger until this baby is running on my workbench again.

Plazma
03-30-2010, 01:10 AM
You seem to have quite a knack in writing out good explanations and hitting on the many questions I have asked myself as I contemplate my future endeavors with a 10-coiler. And, congratulations on all of your hard work - that puts you way ahead of where I'm at reference multi-coiler energizers of all types.

At this writing 10-coiler materials are trickling in - I'm still 2 pkgs away from having the order in hand so sometime early April I'll start to build. Also, I am looking at a solar array design to install on the roof of my office/shop. This is a grid-tie system and may offer some interesting possibilities in the future as the inverter has several open inputs for energy sources besides PhotoVoltaic(PV).

In one of your posts you raised the issue of RF. Since my lab is in an-all metal building complete with Ufer ground matrix, I hope NOT to generate so much RF that local communications are affected. However, Rick F. was most explicit in his verbal warnings to me about the RF that the machinery would generate especially if the 10-coiler (monopole) were used to drive the 10-energizer coil/generator assembly that can be added to and coupled to the monople's drive shaft. I concluded that nearly all of my digital lab toys (scopes, meters, analyzers, PCs, etc) powered or not would/could be seriously affected so I chose not to attempt the generator assembly at this time until I got adequate experience with the 10-coiler, per se. As pointed out, tuning this monster by playing 20-factorial questions with fixed resistors is most likely enough of an exhausting, taxing process.

As you've suggested, I'll be posting as things develop.

All the Best,:cheers:

Plazma

theremart
03-30-2010, 01:28 AM
I am looking forward to seeing how it goes for you. Please keep us posted.

albertMunich
04-04-2010, 09:25 AM
Thank you Plazma for your nice words and great news.
I'm looking forward to what you have to say about the quality on Ricks machine.
I finally got my 3 coiler to run again- this time with the right transistors. I had a nasty problem- at first NOTHING worked and I started pulling my hair out. I have made some nice cooling fins for the MJL transistors using an aluminium profile. Since I want to be able to switch transistors without soldering, I used the fin as the attachment point for the collector wire. Well, I had to find out the hard way that these aluminum profiles are anodized in some way and DON't conduct electricity. I had to sand the anodizing layer off and now everything is fine again with the 470 ohm base resistors and a wire wound potentiometer.
The transistor makes ALL the difference. The BD 243 C transistor is definitely NOT the transistor to use. Even on a Bedini fan / one transistor setup, I have a different animal now with the MJL setup. When I unplug the charge battery on the simple 12 volt fan, the spikes go to 700 Volts! With the 243 C it was 120 volts maximum.
The big machine can now charge the battery bank two times faster, running on 36 volts and 3 A. Power consumption with the transformer included is a mere 45 watts. AND I begin to see the effect of conditioning as the charging times and the impedance of the battery bank goes down. Before I could not get below 30-40 mill-ohms, now I'm at 18 m-ohms. All this just by changing the transistor, and the wheel does not go into these ridiculous overspeeds anymore.
Sometimes just one bloody component makes a difference between a piece of junk and a useful machine.....

dambit
04-04-2010, 10:32 AM
As the master of the shaft'; how is your Kromrey Converter coming' ?

It's been about 10 months since you gave an update on your Kromrey; does it charge batteries better then your Solid State Charger?

MK2 Solid State Charger
YouTube - SJohnM81's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/SJohnM81#p/u/6/aHg2C5yaFog)

1:26 "You don't need the wheel anymore, but people still like to look at it!" - SJohnM81

- Schpankme

The phaonmneal pweor of teh hmuan mnid.

Hi mate,

Sorry bout the late reply, only just saw this post.

I can't believe it's been 10 months. :suprise: Seems like only two or three. In all honesty I havn't touched my Kromrey converter in a while. It's all ready to go and is sitting neatly in one of my cupboards, I just have to get the coils rewound again and fit a new bearing. I'm still not sure on the best coil config, but the only one I have seen any results from was the very first one I tried. Each coil was 3-filar with 800 turns. They flew apart after only a little while and for whatever reason I never tried that config again. Now that I have better coil cores I will try it again.

So in answer to your question, no it doesn't charge better that my solid state charger. Not yet anyway:D

That particular charger in the vid has been the most tested unit I have built. My Grandad used it almost non-stop for the past year and restored at least 15 batteries from the dump. All around the 80 to 100AH rating. It's not the fastest charger around, but it definitly works. :thumbsup:

Cheers,

Steve

Plazma
04-04-2010, 03:45 PM
Hi Albert,

Congratulations on finding out how great an insulator that Al2O3 is - :rofl: - :wall:

Ref your battery bank impedance, that's a very significant drop. Did you say what size/type of batteries being charged you were using?

As a data/reference point, John Bedini suggested that the internal impedance of a fully submerged lead/acid battery was 0.0023 Ohms (and, I suspect this number might be from a new and fully conditioned battery, too - that number posted on the Tesla Switch thread). Quite a challenge to accurately measure such a value given the hassels with contact resistances and other similar issues. Still, something to shoot for . . .

As for the 10-coiler, more packages of parts have arrived so I will start to build next week. I intend to go very slowly and methodically with progress reports posted phase by phase. We'll see how it goes - very excited about the 'potential' (pun intended).

Cheers,

Plazma



. . . The big machine can now charge the battery bank two times faster, running on 36 volts and 3 A. Power consumption with the transformer included is a mere 45 watts. AND I begin to see the effect of conditioning as the charging times and the impedance of the battery bank goes down. Before I could not get below 30-40 mill-ohms, now I'm at 18 m-ohms. All this just by changing the transistor, and the wheel does not go into these ridiculous overspeeds anymore.
Sometimes just one bloody component makes a difference between a piece of junk and a useful machine.....

erfinder
04-05-2010, 12:37 PM
Since the wires are pretty thick there are not too many turns on each coil...


albertMunich,

Your coils are beautiful! You mentioned they were special order, can you tell me where you got them made, and how much they cost?

Regards...

ren
04-05-2010, 09:12 PM
Hey Buddy,

From past chats with Albert I seem to remember him winding his own. I also noted his excellent craftsman ship.

Bedini replication in Germany (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3725.0)

Ahhh....the good ole days:cheers:

Regards

albertMunich
04-08-2010, 06:03 PM
Hi friends,

the coils were made by me, the litzed wire was obtained from a company by an associate of mine. I don't know where he had it made.
My 3 coil machine is performing very well with the MJL transistors now. Just had it running back and forth for the whole afternoon, switched between the banks twice. Sum voltage dropped from 50. 62 to 49. 60 Volts. I run the machine on 24 to 36 volts now.
The solid state mode needs more investigation, any Bedini machine can be made to run in solid state mode without the wheel. Just play with the potentiometer or use some unpolarized capacitors in the trigger line.

Even my very first Bedini machine works like a charm now. ( The Bike wheel variant with two transistors.) Runs on 24 volts and can also be run solid state.
I can only repeat the transistors make all the difference.
To all experimenters out there: How long does it take until a battery bank responds to the conditioning? How many charge-discharge cycles? I am at 10-12 cycles on my 100 aH liquid filled battery bank now. This is so damn tedious...
I also found it better to use a battery bank on the driving side- my power supply seems incapable to supply the energy for the radiant spikes although it is fully capable to supply the voltage. So now I use the primary bank- suitably charged with a "normal" charger on the driving side. tomorrow I will look into the shop of the local car repair guy and see if he has some old batteries that might be recoverable. I have the battery tester John B uses and it indicates the battery impedance. Always a good way to look for a batt that will still be in a working condition. If there is a defective cell its no good.

nvisser
04-08-2010, 07:43 PM
Hi friends,
The solid state mode needs more investigation, any Bedini machine can be made to run in solid state mode without the wheel. Just play with the potentiometer or use some unpolarized capacitors in the trigger line.


Albert
If you connect the bottom wire of the trigger coil to positive instead of negative , it turns solid state and you can run it with a low value base resistor to supply some current to it specially if you drive it from a solar array that can supply some current. JB said to use 1A per winding.
I build my first 9 wire coil. 1 Winding for trigger and connected it as described above (See patent:11_592_633_Circuits_and_related_methods_)
I also build a nice PC board for the electronics. I will post a photo tomorrow.
The idea is to built 10 of these over time and in the meantime run them solid state till I can get hold of a nice wheel one day to build the 10 coiler SSG.
My coils look a bit big compared to the ones on JB's photo. I also only had about 24# wire. I get it from the degauss coils of old crt monitors. The coils measure between 6 and 8 Ohms. Is that to much? For now this wire must do as I cannot afford to buy thicker wire.
I drive it from a pc power supply between the 12v and minus 12V. (24V)
I use 470 Ohm resistors on each base and chose the one base resistor that goes to all of them so that it does not draw to much current. It draws about 1.5A from the 24V supply.And It does impressive charging!
The only problem I see with a solid state multi coiler is that if you want to supply it with a lot of current the one base transistor has to be of high wattage.
The transistors I used are 2SC3886A's. They are dirt cheap here by us and can handle high voltage. It is a tv line driver transistor. Between the collector and emitter of the transistors are diodes instead of neon for protection in case the output goes open. When that happens one or more of this protection diodes will go short and put the pc power supply in current limit mode and so protect the transistors

nvisser
04-09-2010, 06:00 AM
My first 10 coiler coil and pc board

theremart
04-09-2010, 10:58 PM
My first 10 coiler coil and pc board

Ok, where are the other 2 transistors, I count only 8 !

:)

Nice clean setup hope you don't have to use the quick change of the transistors. Are you going to use a wheel, or going solid state?

Mart

nvisser
04-10-2010, 09:36 AM
This is the first 8 filar coil with trigger of the 10 coiler. Hence only 8 transistors.
The other 9 coils will be build over time. At this stage I run it solid state . See post before the photo. In time I plan to built a wheel as a friend of mine just bought a lathe and offered to make one out of super wood. Not sure yet what diameter to use.
The transistors are only screwed into connector blocks and are very easy to change, but I found that the protection diode between collector and emitter blows when the output goes open circuit and so protect the transistor.
Anybody that need the pcb layout , just give me a shout and I will mail it.
I cannot post it here as it is in pcb express.

Plazma
04-13-2010, 05:13 AM
@All . . .

I opened up 2 large boxes just received and found they contained what appears to be all of the frame, rotor, and coil mounting components plus magnets. There was also a very nice set of assembly drawings. Here are some observations:

Packing - all parts were well packed and protected . . .

Rotor - absolutely beautifully machined out of aluminum - and VERY heavy - a magnet holder and fly wheel in one . . . holds 20 magnets as mounted North end facing out inside of a (Delrin?) plastic holder that must be press fit into the rotor. Even the dove-tail like magnet holder cavities exhibit mirror-like finished surfaces - WOW!

Many of the black plastic parts look like cast Delrin (just a guess - stuff is expensive, but tough and strong) . . .

Part number sequences as marked on the individual parts seem to match the drawings . . .

2 Boxes of 5 coils per box - the welding rod cores had slipped some during shipment - not an overly big concern but one must pay very close attention to the bobbin core alignment as the welding rod cores come into play in establishing the the rotor-core gap as the core is clamped by a collar in the upper part of the coil/bobbin mounting assembly (i.e., the core is quite a bit longer than the coil bobbin). I'll post more on this as I get deeper into assembly, feeler gauges and micrometers at hand.

So far, the number of plastic parts of a particular (coil assembly) type match the number of coils/bobbins (10).

Major parts of the frame assembly use pins that interconnect one part to another. This is a very good practice to ensure fit as well as distribute stress so as to prevent unnecessary over-torquing of bolts and screws.

Well, enough first impressions for this post - I'll continue as I get deeper into the build.

Cheers,

Plazma

theremart
04-13-2010, 10:48 AM
Thanks for the update Plazma! Looking forward to hear how it goes.

Mart

juju
04-13-2010, 04:45 PM
i dont know why mr. bedini if so expert in this area, dont include a battery swapper circuit system, so it can detect when the source battery is running out, and exchange it automatically for a completed charged battery, and also use the same system to the extra charged battery that will power a load (light or device).

its that not simple to do and apply it to this kit?

king regards

Schpankme
04-14-2010, 01:00 AM
I opened up 2 large boxes just received and found they contained what appears to be all of the frame, rotor, and coil mounting components plus magnets. There was also a very nice set of assembly drawings. Here are some observations: Packing, Rotor, Many black plastic parts look like cast Delrin and 2-Boxes of 5 coils per box

So far, the number of plastic parts of a particular (coil assembly) type match the number of coils/bobbins (10).

Major parts of the frame assembly use pins that interconnect one part to another. This is a very good practice to ensure fit as well as distribute stress so as to prevent unnecessary over-torquing of bolts and screws.

Well, enough first impressions for this post - I'll continue as I get deeper into the build.


Here's a picture of John Bedini, 10-pole picture for inspiration.

Schpankme

“You won't realize the distance you've walked until you take a look around and realize how far you've been.”

sucahyo
04-14-2010, 02:53 AM
Look forward for more progress Plazmaz :thumbsup: .

i dont know why mr. bedini if so expert in this area, dont include a battery swapper circuit system, so it can detect when the source battery is running out, and exchange it automatically for a completed charged battery, and also use the same system to the extra charged battery that will power a load (light or device).

its that not simple to do and apply it to this kit?

king regardsMust be done at the right sequence though. Transistor fries if there is no load.

stonewater
04-14-2010, 05:01 AM
you can get most or all of JB's circuits from his free energy generation book circuits and schematics.

albertMunich
05-09-2010, 02:20 PM
Are buyers of the Rick friedrich 10 coil machine under a gag order not to show details of the machine?
I would think this is very counterproductive. If anyone wants to shell out this kind of money,they should know exactly what they get themselves into and what other builders are doing.

theremart
05-09-2010, 03:23 PM
Are buyers of the Rick friedrich 10 coil machine under a gag order not to show details of the machine?
I would think this is very counterproductive. If anyone wants to shell out this kind of money,they should know exactly what they get themselves into and what other builders are doing.

I think that argument is flawed as there is a builder who has posted in this thread their device and have shown us step by step their progress.

I am also on the edge of my chair waiting for results. I am looking forward to seeing if people have the same results that Bedini has had.

Mark
05-10-2010, 01:54 PM
When the 10 coilers where first being delivered a few months ago we started to see some posting about them. But now that they have been out for a few months we've seen nothing. I also thought they may have had an agreement about not posting any results but that would be counter productive to a working device and to sales. So I have concluded that no one has had any successful results to post. If someone does have a successful build and good results I would love to hear from them. Actually I would like to hear ANY results on the 10 coiler!

Bit's-n-Bytes
05-21-2010, 01:19 PM
If someone does have a successful build and good results I would love to hear from them. Actually I would like to hear ANY results on the 10 coiler!

This is a well designed kit. Comes with great packaging and instructions. The flywheel design is awesome in the way the magnets lock in. Very easy to assemble and is heavy duty.

More to come,

Bit's

Mark
05-21-2010, 03:00 PM
Is that your build Bits?

Bit's-n-Bytes
05-21-2010, 03:24 PM
Is that your build Bits?

Yes. This is a neat kit!

smw1998a
05-21-2010, 04:04 PM
This is a well designed kit. Comes with great packaging and instructions. The flywheel design is awesome in the way the magnets lock in. Very easy to assemble and is heavy duty.

More to come,

Bit's

I couldn't agree more. Thank you for the photo's.

Regards Lee...

Mark
05-21-2010, 09:19 PM
Excellent Bits!!

I can't wait to here what kind of results YOU will get with this device. Please keep us all informed on you progress.

Thank You, Mark

theremart
05-21-2010, 10:26 PM
So when can I borrow it ;) ?

Look forward to your tests.

Mart

Mark
05-24-2010, 03:08 PM
Wanted to bump this thread up to light a fire under BITS! Hey bits anymore progress. Get back to work. :rofl: Waiting unpatiently to hear more.

Mark :thumbsup:

Bit's-n-Bytes
05-24-2010, 03:17 PM
Wanted to bump this thread up to light a fire under BITS! Hey bits anymore progress. Get back to work. :rofl: Waiting unpatiently to hear more.

Mark :thumbsup:

Yep, Finished the tedious task of building all of the circuit cards holding the MJL's and components. I am now wiring the coils into each one of the cards. Should have this running by weeks end.

Bit's

Bit's-n-Bytes
05-25-2010, 02:55 AM
Yep, Finished the tedious task of building all of the circuit cards holding the MJL's and components. I am now wiring the coils into each one of the cards. Should have this running by weeks end.

Bit's

More pic's.

Thanks

Bit's

vrand
05-25-2010, 05:11 AM
More pic's.

Thanks

Bit's

Nice work :cheers:

Looking forward to the tests :cheers:

Regards, Mike R.

Mark
05-25-2010, 02:11 PM
Sweet Bits!!

I like how you have a terminal screw connectors on your boards so you can change your base resistors. Looks like you'll be able to give her a spin real soon. You plan on firing her up with all the coils hooked up or slowly powering her up?

Good Luck, Mark

Bit's-n-Bytes
05-25-2010, 02:33 PM
Sweet Bits!!

I like how you have a terminal screw connectors on your boards so you can change your base resistors. Looks like you'll be able to give her a spin real soon. You plan on firing her up with all the coils hooked up or slowly powering her up?

Good Luck, Mark

I will power this up with all of the coils engaged. I have built a three coiler in the past so am pretty confident in this setup.

Thanks

Bit's

Bit's-n-Bytes
05-27-2010, 12:24 AM
Sweet Bits!!

I like how you have a terminal screw connectors on your boards so you can change your base resistors. Looks like you'll be able to give her a spin real soon. You plan on firing her up with all the coils hooked up or slowly powering her up?

Good Luck, Mark

Look who just happened in:suprise:

theremart
05-27-2010, 01:26 AM
Ok, you have NO excuses now none :)


Look forward to your results. You have alot going for you.

gmeat
05-27-2010, 01:36 AM
Hi Bits, Since nobody has asked, Whats up with the magnets on the wheel (And I dont mean that they forgot to put them in there he he he)but they look custom made,So could you tell us more about them.Is that Rick with a beard and mustache.Thx peace out.-Gary

Bit's-n-Bytes
05-27-2010, 02:13 AM
Hi Bits, Since nobody has asked, Whats up with the magnets on the wheel (And I dont mean that they forgot to put them in there he he he)but they look custom made,So could you tell us more about them.Is that Rick with a beard and mustache.Thx peace out.-Gary

Yes it is Rick, he's traveling in "Cognito".:rofl: On to the magnets, they are neo's that tuck nicely into a wedge and then the wedge is pressed into the rotor. These essiently lock into the rotor by notches into the machined wedge cavaty.

Bit's-n-Bytes
05-27-2010, 02:17 AM
Ok, you have NO excuses now none :)


Look forward to your results. You have alot going for you.

Rat's, I wanted at least one.:D

ashtweth
05-27-2010, 05:40 AM
Look who just happened in:suprise:

Heeeey, i know those faces, two pioneering open source engineers, :D

ren
05-27-2010, 06:54 AM
Look who just happened in:suprise:

ha lol!

Good work Bits (and Rick:) ) cant wait to see this puppy singing. Please oh please put some serious input into it if you can, even if it is only once?

Maybe only run with half the power windings on perhaps, (is there a switch on each power winding by chance?) if you want to drop your current a bit. You could power it with a variac like I did on the front end if its easier, mine would only support 10 amps however. I will be interested to see what the "sweet spot" amperage draw is @ 12v and 24v with all coils on.

Enjoy

Regards

Bit's-n-Bytes
05-27-2010, 12:13 PM
ha lol!

Good work Bits (and Rick:) ) cant wait to see this puppy singing. Please oh please put some serious input into it if you can, even if it is only once?

Maybe only run with half the power windings on perhaps, (is there a switch on each power winding by chance?) if you want to drop your current a bit. You could power it with a variac like I did on the front end if its easier, mine would only support 10 amps however. I will be interested to see what the "sweet spot" amperage draw is @ 12v and 24v with all coils on.

Enjoy

Regards

Thanks Ren. It is my intent to have 24V on the input and 36V on the output for the first test. I have an idea, some latest developments, and earlier devices I created, that I want to bring it all together. The 10 coiler does have individual switches for each coil, so I should be able to get you those #'s to you.

Talk to ya soon

Bit's

Mark
05-28-2010, 04:16 PM
OK bits its been almost 2 days since Rick was there, did you get her done yet? I see the torch sitting on your table there, but where is the fire extinguisher? :rofl:

Hope things are going well keep us posted.

Mark

Bit's-n-Bytes
05-28-2010, 08:32 PM
OK bits its been almost 2 days since Rick was there, did you get her done yet? I see the torch sitting on your table there, but where is the fire extinguisher? :rofl:

Hope things are going well keep us posted.

Mark
Just finished up all of the tranny wiring and now need to work on the switches / trigger wiring. Notice how I did the positive and negetive output wiring (actually copper bus). This saves a lot of additional wiring.

Thanks

Bit's

Rutame
05-28-2010, 10:32 PM
Hello, i do not understund something: is the same thing use a coil that magnet?

Why bedini's motor works with coils and does not with magnets?

Thank you

Bit's-n-Bytes
05-28-2010, 11:51 PM
Hello, i do not understund something: is the same thing use a coil that magnet?

Why bedini's motor works with coils and does not with magnets?

Thank you

Hi Rutame, The magnets are in the rotor "north facing". When the rotor magnet aligns with the coil, the coils is triggerd causing the core of the coil to also become a "north facing" elctro magnet. In turn, this causes a push to the rotor to cause rotation. I hope this helps.


Bit's

Rutame
05-29-2010, 01:41 PM
Thank you for your answer, but i means if it is not the same put magnet and not coils?.
Magnets in the rotor with nort pointing out and two magnets in the estator with nort pointing to inside this way north - north magnets.

theremart
05-29-2010, 02:51 PM
Thank you for your answer, but i means if it is not the same put magnet and not coils?.
Magnets in the rotor with nort pointing out and two magnets in the estator with nort pointing to inside this way north - north magnets.

When you put two norths together of a magnet they repel, the same is what is happening with the energizer, the coil creates a north field for a very short amount of time. This creates the pressure for the wheel to rotate to the next position. and the process repeats.

Bits is working on the coils first, then he will add the wheel to the setup then look out :eek:

He he

I hope no sacrificial smoke is given at that point.:suprise:

nvisser
05-29-2010, 03:01 PM
This is John Bedini's explanation on what drives the wheel

""What drives the wheel, the magnets around the wheel are only used for a trigger signal. What is driving the wheel is hidden from your view, what is hidden from your view is also the charging signal. The driving force of the wheel is scalar or magnetic south poles between the north poles. Make yourself a timing light by taking a green or red led with a 330 ohm resistor in series with it. Place skinny white strips down the center of the magnets around the wheel, connect the led across the coil and then tell me where the coil pulse is and what is driving the wheel.
The force that is driving the wheel is the same force charging the battery."

"The south pole scalar is the force that causes the motor/energizer to rotate, that force is equal to the charging radiant force, no current"

Bit's-n-Bytes
05-29-2010, 09:47 PM
OK bits its been almost 2 days since Rick was there, did you get her done yet? I see the torch sitting on your table there, but where is the fire extinguisher? :rofl:

Hope things are going well keep us posted.

Mark

Check this out;

YouTube - Bedini 10 Coiler, It Runs!.MPG (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-00RiuvMOk4)

I don't have any further test results other than what I showed in this vid. I will get more data points though. This is the real McCoy!

Bit's

smw1998a
05-29-2010, 10:45 PM
Check this out;

YouTube - Bedini 10 Coiler, It Runs!.MPG (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-00RiuvMOk4)

I don't have any further test results other than what I showed in this vid. I will get more data points though. This is the real McCoy!

Bit's

Great stuff bits, nice to see it running.

Thanks, Lee...

Mark
05-29-2010, 10:56 PM
Very nice Bits. LoL, I think you might need BIGGER batteries though. I'm looking forward to seeing some test data. Any gut feeling yet on if you'll be able to get more output than input.

Great work as always, Mark :thumbsup:

redrichie
06-02-2010, 11:06 AM
Any new data or info on your setup. I have a question on the big monopole. Has anyone seen the new video Rick Friedrick put out with his large machine running a lawn mower? His Bedini is producing torque. Neat stuff. He is using a large setup like the 10 coiler but in a horizontal fashion. Is there any advantage to having a large diameter rotor like this as opposed to a smaller diameter but longer rotor? Is it just for flywheel effect? I know magnet spacing is very important but is there an ideal magnet spacing on a large rotor like this. Such as a certain degree the TDC of the magnet should be place into the rotor at?
Thanks

Jules Tresor
06-02-2010, 11:41 AM
@redrichie
You should give a link to the video, we could watch it to !

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-02-2010, 11:54 AM
Any new data or info on your setup. I have a question on the big monopole. Has anyone seen the new video Rick Friedrick put out with his large machine running a lawn mower? His Bedini is producing torque. Neat stuff. He is using a large setup like the 10 coiler but in a horizontal fashion. Is there any advantage to having a large diameter rotor like this as opposed to a smaller diameter but longer rotor? Is it just for flywheel effect? I know magnet spacing is very important but is there an ideal magnet spacing on a large rotor like this. Such as a certain degree the TDC of the magnet should be place into the rotor at?
Thanks

I have gathered a bit more data, and am working on a few more configurations. Some of the initial data points are with 24V on the input and 36 volt on the output, input amps can range as low as 800ma and as high as 4.2 amps determinate how much gain you have and how many coils you have on. This large rotor does have more torque than a smaller one. Rick and John have done a fine job in creating a precision machine that is nicely balanced. I have now been able to eliminate the drive batteries with a “device” and will display that when I get it perfected. Rick showed me that video a couple of months ago and I ask him if he was driving electric motors for the drive portion, he replied that he was actually using the torque and drive pulley to run the machine. Pretty impressive.

Thanks

Bit’s

Mark
06-02-2010, 02:33 PM
A "device" on the input? I hope its a big cap thats fed by the output (wishful thinking). Anything other than batteries will make it very difficult to see if there is OU. You must be having FUN.

Do you have any info on rotor RPM's. My highest RPM on Ricks 3-pole is about 6500 rpm with 24 volts and 3 drive coils.

Can't wait to hear more info, keep up the GREAT work!!

Mark

redrichie
06-02-2010, 04:05 PM
Heres the link: YouTube - 2007 Memorial Day Parade 1: First Moblie Bedini Monopole Energizer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T607u4pwPk)
Sorry about that.The mower is moving slow but it is rolling down the road none the less. 2 hours and batteries are still at same V.

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-02-2010, 05:45 PM
A "device" on the input? I hope its a big cap thats fed by the output (wishful thinking)
Mark

Becareful what you "hope" for as that is part of it.;)

Bit's

Mark
06-02-2010, 09:49 PM
Becareful what you "hope" for as that is part of it.;)

Bit's

Come on now dont toy with me. Spill the beans. :thinking:

By the way nice house.

Mark

SkyWatcher
06-02-2010, 10:46 PM
Hi folks, Thanks for that info Bit's-n-Bytes, i asked him in the other forum what was driving the lawn mower wheels and you say it is the Bedini monopole motor driving the wheels through belts and such, very cool. It seems the lady speaking in the video seems pretty confident when she says something like, if we add more coils it will go a lot faster. I would assume he had it geared to reduce the rpm's at the wheel's for more torque. Do you think the voltage regained is real charge and not semi-surface charge, a good test would be to make some kind of load tests afterward on the batteries to make sure it didn't turn out to be a little fluffy, as i know from experiments how that can happen sometimes. Otherwise, what a great effort and work by Rick.:notworthy:
:peaceflag: :heartbeat: :sun:
Tyson

rave154
06-03-2010, 12:57 AM
I will have $50 straight & honest bet, with anybody, winnings donated to charity of choice of winner ( & assumming straight & honest reporting by bits..........which i firmly believe he will do ).....that Bits doesnt see any OU from his kit.

Any takers?

redrichie
06-03-2010, 01:18 AM
I will have $50 straight & honest bet, with anybody, winnings donated to charity of choice of winner ( & assumming straight & honest reporting by bits..........which i firmly believe he will do ).....that Bits doesnt see any OU from his kit.

Any takers?

So you think he got scammed, by a guy who put his lifes work on the internet, for replication. To what maybe sell some DVD's? Sell a few "models" for $4000 a pop, that dont work? Well produce measured effects anyhow? I may be thick but Ricks video showed no losses to batteries while driving a lawnmower (slowly) for 2 hours. A lawnmower. Please explain why you think this. Im interested to hear what you think.

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-03-2010, 02:39 AM
:eek: I will have $50 straight & honest bet, with anybody, winnings donated to charity of choice of winner ( & assumming straight & honest reporting by bits..........which i firmly believe he will do ).....that Bits doesnt see any OU from his kit.

Any takers?

Oh come now David and thanks for the inspiration. I must say for right now that I am at COP 1. I am in development of another inverter (my own) that will pull a lot less than this store purchased crap. Any way, take a look;


YouTube - One battery 10 coiler.MPG (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lrgri2BZqo)

Thanks

Jeff

ren
06-03-2010, 03:43 AM
I will have $50 straight & honest bet, with anybody, winnings donated to charity of choice of winner ( & assumming straight & honest reporting by bits..........which i firmly believe he will do ).....that Bits doesnt see any OU from his kit.

Any takers?

Sigh...

Not this old chestnut. Specify your definition of "ou" rave, you may as well bet that he sees no gollywogsingcomps from it otherwise...

And seriously, every time someone make some progress here people flood in to talk **** and make stupid bets? Can't we start another forum for people to slag off in? Looks like Bits is well on his way to taking your money anyway.

Good work Bits looks interesting. I'm going to have a stab in the dark here. Battery runs monopole, monopole output goes to caps, tesla switch dumps caps into inverter, inverter charges front end battery?

Looks very smick.

Regards

juju
06-03-2010, 04:24 AM
even if bits can make it overunity and selfrunning, the extra energy will maybe light up a lamp?

lighting a light during all your life will not cost you 4000$ in your energy bill...

in the practical way, this is just a toy!

but keep the good work, the energizer looks good!

hugs

:cheers:

juju
06-03-2010, 04:42 AM
Hi folks, Thanks for that info Bit's-n-Bytes, i asked him in the other forum what was driving the lawn mower wheels and you say it is the Bedini monopole motor driving the wheels through belts and such, very cool. It seems the lady speaking in the video seems pretty confident when she says something like, if we add more coils it will go a lot faster. I would assume
:peaceflag: :heartbeat: :sun:
Tyson

i must question that... on the bedini documentary he shows his 10 coil big motor model, and he can stop the wheel only with the force of his hands...

i think this dont have so much torque to move something forward, its not impossible, but difficult to believe...

just think... when you have to stop the motorbike on the traffic lights, the rotor will stop to, and then what? help the rotor to start again with your hands? not to mention the belts and bike kinetic force since will be all connected to the bedini rotor...

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-03-2010, 11:53 AM
even if bits can make it overunity and selfrunning, the extra energy will maybe light up a lamp?

this is just a toy!

hugs

:cheers:

@juju, I typically don’t respond to scripture of this nature, but feel I must set the record straight. First and foremost, this is "Not a Toy" in the mere fact this machine can create lethal voltage would be proof of such. Perhaps any of the machines you have built maybe in the toy category. Now for the “powering light bulb” statement, perhaps that is true if that is what your goal is. I accomplished that many years ago and choose to deliver OU to this world, my accomplishments to date are a validation to this goal. I am sure the folks on this forum would agree, that without pioneers such as folks like myself, that you would not have any “so called toys”. Let’s see your proof, I have certainly shown you mine.

Bit’s

juju
06-03-2010, 02:47 PM
@juju, I typically don’t respond to scripture of this nature, but feel I must set the record straight. First and foremost, this is "Not a Toy" in the mere fact this machine can create lethal voltage would be proof of such.

it feels to me that i I touched your feelings, and that was not my goal!

what i mean by "toy", is something that you can only use to play, and nothing more, it has no practical use, no extra energy, unless to charge baterys? i have a microwave transformer that can create lethal voltage to, maybe more than that? but in fact... what i putted in, is what it comes out!

so for me that his just a toy to play with... until i found some "real" use for it!


Perhaps any of the machines you have built maybe in the toy category. Now for the “powering light bulb” statement, perhaps that is true if that is what your goal is. I accomplished that many years ago and choose to deliver OU to this world, my accomplishments to date are a validation to this goal.


are you saying that you allready made a OU device many years ago? dont understanded well!! your accomplishments to date, or bedini accomplishments to date? sory what you say dont make sense to me... so whats your final goal?

if it was possible to put this machine to self run or put out extra energy, maybe this allready was done by the creator of the device, the person that knows it better that anyone, does make sense to you?


I am sure the folks on this forum would agree, that without pioneers such as folks like myself, that you would not have any “so called toys”. Let’s see your proof, I have certainly shown you mine.
Bit’s

once again dont understand you, i will not have any "so called toys" without folks like yourself?

what proof do you shown? what you shown is something that anyone can buy, and everybody allready seen more then hundred times in different scales. i dont have to proof nothing to you, at the most i have to prove it myself!

your big size bedini will not be any different of my small size bedini, i put less in, and i have less out.... you put more out, but putted more in to!

you may have a consumption of 12v x 1 Amp = 12 watt, and you can put out 10.000 Volts x 0 amp thats equal to zero watt!

my purpose is not to atack you, and is not what im doing... a forum exists to share ideas, and im FREE to share what i think, since i dont treat you bad, or anyone here.

hugs :grindaisy:

PS: i believe in OU, and FE!

Mark
06-03-2010, 04:10 PM
Hi Bitz

Looking Good! I'm trying to figure out how you have things hooked up. Inverter is drawing power from battery. The 120v ac from inverter goes to FWBR to drive 10 coiler, to fill cap or what. Can you give a little more detail on how you have everything connected.

Mark

minoly
06-03-2010, 04:26 PM
Hi Bitz

Looking Good! I'm trying to figure out how you have things hooked up. Inverter is drawing power from battery. The 120v ac from inverter goes to FWBR to drive 10 coiler, to fill cap or what. Can you give a little more detail on how you have everything connected.

Mark

I think that's it, right Bits?
I don't see a large cap dumping to the battery on the Big 10's back end though. We highly recommend this. the Big 10 wants to see a huge cap on the front and a huge cap on the back. removes any impedance worries. We believe you are way OU on this! especially when you add another generator wheel that will produce energy decrease input and increase charging effect! great stuff here.
patrick

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-03-2010, 06:46 PM
I think that's it, right Bits?
I don't see a large cap dumping to the battery on the Big 10's back end though. We highly recommend this. the Big 10 wants to see a huge cap on the front and a huge cap on the back. removes any impedance worries. We believe you are way OU on this! especially when you add another generator wheel that will produce energy decrease input and increase charging effect! great stuff here.
patrick

I am driving the run side of things beginning at the battery (which is the same batt for charge) to an inverter, that drives essentially 2 transformers, the first of which is connected directly to the inverter, and the other connected to a pair of center taps from the first transformer. The other pair of center taps are connected to a bridge rectifier that feeds the big cap (for which the run side is directly connected). The second transformer is feeding my Tesla charger and the second cap (presently 350V, 350uf). The output of the Tesla Charger helps maintain the charge on the run/charge battery. As I said in the vid and earlier, I am building a more effeceint inverter which will push this setup well over unity as the current inverter statically draws 2.5 amps.

Bit's

ren
06-03-2010, 09:20 PM
even if bits can make it overunity and selfrunning, the extra energy will maybe light up a lamp?


in the practical way, this is just a toy!


:cheers:

You are so wrong about that.......you obviously missed the point of the whole exercise.

In time you will see exactly what this circuit is capable of.

@ Bits, you may find that a 150-300 watt inverter works alot better. Ive always found the bigger the inverter, the more standby power it needs.

Regards

juju
06-03-2010, 09:56 PM
everyday i found some point that i was wrong about...

but only by having the answer of "why" i was wrong about something, then i will be able to really know whats right!

i can tell you that you are wrong, but if i dont say why you are wrong, im only an ignorant!

i hope im wrong, really do!!

keep it up bites and bytes, your work is very important, and thank you very much for sharing, you are great! i was just questioning, because i dont know the answers, just that!

:cheers:

Mark
06-03-2010, 11:11 PM
Hmmm Bits, I'm still a little lost on how everything is hooked up. The input to the 10-coiler is from a big cap that is charged by a transformer driven off the inverter. Is that correct. The Tesla switch is powered from the other transformer which dumps back into the battery. Where is the output from the 10 coiler going.

Could you draw it up?

Your total draw on the battery is only 2.5 amps, 30-35 watts? Or is that the draw on the inverter so 300 watts?

Sorry to bother ya.

Mark

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-04-2010, 12:08 AM
Hmmm Bits, I'm still a little lost on how everything is hooked up. The input to the 10-coiler is from a big cap that is charged by a transformer driven off the inverter. Is that correct. The Tesla switch is powered from the other transformer which dumps back into the battery. Where is the output from the 10 coiler going.

Could you draw it up?

Your total draw on the battery is only 2.5 amps, 30-35 watts? Or is that the draw on the inverter so 300 watts?

Sorry to bother ya.

Mark

Here you go. Just the inverter was drawing 2.5 stactically. Actually the SG was around 1.4 so total draw was just under 4 amps.

Bit's

Lefthand
06-04-2010, 03:33 AM
The X-coiler is looking and running very nice,I watch your channel eagerly wanting more.
Anyone who dosent believe in this technology is missing out huh?
Somtimes it really is sad but true even in these forums there are nay sayers,very sad indeed.
I've built three Bedini energizers,many Newmans motors,a dual oscillating bi-fillar coils device,vertical axis wind gens,many are on youtube under my channel :troydhansen
please check it out.

Lefthand
Colorado

the_mog
06-04-2010, 10:24 AM
Hi Bits,

Your build is looking really nice :)

Could you please tell me if you onlty have a single trigger circuit? or do you have a trigger for each coil

Thanks

K-

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-04-2010, 11:30 AM
Hi Bits,

Your build is looking really nice :)

Could you please tell me if you onlty have a single trigger circuit? or do you have a trigger for each coil

Thanks

K-

@Mog, Thank you, just a single trigger.

Bit's

robbie47
06-04-2010, 12:01 PM
Isn't the Tesla switch not just another inefficiency part?
The 10 coiler should provide the energy that it takes to read OU, right?

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-04-2010, 03:06 PM
Isn't the Tesla switch not just another inefficiency part?
The 10 coiler should provide the energy that it takes to read OU, right?

No, there is a lot of "Magic" that occurs with the TS.

Bit's

Mark
06-04-2010, 03:16 PM
Thanks for the diagram Bits. How many volts are in the run cap when the 10-coiler is operating. Or how many volts are you powering the 10 coiler with. And are you running it on all 10 coils?

Did John or Rick give you some guidance on how to use the transformer in your setup, I remember someone talking about it on the Tesla switch thread.

Anyways awesome job!! Congrats and thanks for all your input and hard work. :cheers:

Mark

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-04-2010, 03:39 PM
Thanks for the diagram Bits. How many volts are in the run cap when the 10-coiler is operating. Or how many volts are you powering the 10 coiler with. And are you running it on all 10 coils?

Did John or Rick give you some guidance on how to use the transformer in your setup, I remember someone talking about it on the Tesla switch thread.

Anyways awesome job!! Congrats and thanks for all your input and hard work. :cheers:

Mark

The run cap has about 20.2 volts during a run with all 10 coils on line and for the guidance, none received from John or Rick. This is my own design and test setup.

Thanks again.

Bit's

minoly
06-04-2010, 07:14 PM
The run cap has about 20.2 volts during a run with all 10 coils on line and for the guidance, none received from John or Rick. This is my own design and test setup.

Thanks again.

Bit's

Isolating the battery from the run side this way is genius:notworthy: is it the transformers, or the inverter, or their combination that does this?
We'll be interested to see what you end up w/ for your inverter ckt. Thanks for sharing all this:thumbsup:
Patrick

SkyWatcher
06-04-2010, 08:55 PM
Hi folks, Hi bits, nice work so far and thanks for sharing. Hi JuJu, I think if you can understand that at the most basic base line of these devices is getting back up to 95% of what you put in and that is very significant for energy saving and running something much longer by swapping batteries. Now what Bits is doing is the advanced version coupled with a Tesla switch where we've got our cake and can eat maybe some other cakes also, lol. Nobody is ever right or wrong, just different perspectives on things and this ends up either serving the greater needs of all or not. I still would like to know for sure what was driving Rick F's lawnmower wheels. I think it is possible he was using the monopole geared down to drive the lawnmower wheels, though it would be nice to have a solid confirmation on that. Great work though everyone.:blowout: :fingerdance:
:peaceflag: :heartbeat: :sun:
Tyson

redrichie
06-04-2010, 09:34 PM
Ive watched the Rick F video multiple times now. I do truly believe that the device was propelling his lawnmower. And I would also suspect that it is geared down. At one point he pushes the "clutch" and the rotor speeds up. A lawnmower is belt driven. When you press the clutch it pushes a pulley away from the drive belt, thus letting the rotor speed up. I dont think he is trying to fool us. Or are you saying that the Monopole is charging batts and maybe an elec motor is driving the mower?
Lets also not forget; there are 10 or so coils on this rotor and they do not even go halfway around it!. It is twice as big as the 10 coiler. The flywheel from that rotor has got to be much greater than that of a standard 10 coiler. Especially if it were being designed to drive something, instead of only be an energizer. Rick even said in the email the video was attached to that he didnt even have the coils adjusted for torque. Torque. One of the things that all the naysayers have been complaining about.
If I remember correctly Bedini has kind of been alluding to this through EFTV videos. In one of them I heard him say "If I only had a mass right here" He hints at a lot of stuff in those videos. He is a VERY smart man. How many of us hold multiple patents? Not me for sure. If he wanted to just show us he could have and we would have learned nothing. But instead he did it the way he did, and we experiment. And if nothing else at the end of the exercise you can say I built something and I learned a whole lot about science.

ozotik
06-05-2010, 12:31 AM
Hi, if i buy this instead bateries i can use it for the lights of my house? and it will still going to work giving me more energy?:confused: :suprise:
because i was building one of the bedini's motors with that pourpose and also to see how it happens.

SkyWatcher
06-05-2010, 06:43 AM
Hi redrichie, i'm only wanting to know whats driving the wheels for ideas on a what i might build next. Its either a normal motor driving the wheels with batteries charged by the monopole or its the monopole driving the wheels and charging the batteries, just wondering which it is. I have no doubts about this technology, i understand the process as explained by John B., of course implementing it as well as he does is another thing. I honestly think that if we build a huge rotor, like using a large wood dining table or something with magnets on periphery that we will start to tap more potential from these machines. I think the mass of Rick's monopole is no accident, even though it is horizontal, gravitational/inertial energy is lead out from that massive rotor, due to the pulsing. There are too many people with similar accounts for this to be coincidence.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:

juju
06-05-2010, 07:12 AM
Hi, if i buy this instead bateries i can use it for the lights of my house? and it will still going to work giving me more energy?:confused: :suprise:
because i was building one of the bedini's motors with that pourpose and also to see how it happens.

if your device would be similar to bites&bytes one, maybe you will get lucky!

hugs

Plazma
06-06-2010, 03:47 PM
@Bits - nice build - glad to see you on this leg of the forums - should be really interesting going forward . . .

@All - I finally got the rest of the electronic parts (at least I hope everything is there) last week after putting everything on hold for so long just waiting - so at least maybe a couple of us will start posting results in time.

I am in the middle of adding a separate test room to my lab facility so as to better manage all the work I envision using the 10-coiler and other related sub-assemblies including a test stand for piping in about 500 watts of solar for front end testing.

Like Bits has intimated, I too have ideas/concepts to test both on the front end power to the 10-coiler and I have a completely different objective in mind on using the enrgizer's radiant flux for downstream applications, beyond just charging batteries, per se. Containment on some of those envisioned experiments is why the construction cycle that I am in at present ref additional lab space ( and safety considerations) as well as EMI shielding/containment.

As soon as the lab is finished I will proceed with my 10-coiler build, later this month.

All the Best,

Plazma

PS - the 10-coiler is NOT a toy - I'm not investing considerable funds on lab space to stage toys but looking for serious radiant flux production for other purposes which will be divulged at the appropriate time.

redrichie
06-07-2010, 03:27 AM
Can NMH, Li-Po batteries be charged from these systems?

sucahyo
06-07-2010, 05:37 AM
Can NMH, Li-Po batteries be charged from these systems?IF the battery do not contain circuit/chip yes. Unfortunately most Lithium have circuit. Becarefull not to over charge LiPo. Use battery bunker since LiPo can explode and burn everything around.

John_K
06-09-2010, 02:07 PM
Man, have I been living under a rock :embarrassed: !! (Actually in Adelaide - same difference...ouch :rolleyes: )

Thx to YT's 6 day delay of subs updates I got Bit's video on the "X-coiler" (I like whoever named it that, kind of has a Scully & Moulder feel :rofl: ) and read through the whole thread - yes, even the flame war, but let's not go back there, eh?

Just wanted to say great work Bit's and keep goin' man. I'm now subscribed to this thread so EF will tell me of updates. :D

Quick Q @Bit's - when are you going to add some Tesla Impulse Tech to your X-coiler? Then you'll have the full JB ensemble.... just kidding! (Sort of)

Need sleep, bye..

:cheers:
John K.

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-09-2010, 03:11 PM
Man, have I been living under a rock :embarrassed: !! (Actually in Adelaide - same difference...ouch :rolleyes: )

Thx to YT's 6 day delay of subs updates I got Bit's video on the "X-coiler" (I like whoever named it that, kind of has a Scully & Moulder feel :rofl: ) and read through the whole thread - yes, even the flame war, but let's not go back there, eh?

Just wanted to say great work Bit's and keep goin' man. I'm now subscribed to this thread so EF will tell me of updates. :D

Quick Q @Bit's - when are you going to add some Tesla Impulse Tech to your X-coiler? Then you'll have the full JB ensemble.... just kidding! (Sort of)

Need sleep, bye..

:cheers:
John K.

Hey John, Thanks. The D-TS already in the works to integrate with the X-coiler. Actually, I am working on 3 different devices to work with the "X-Coiler", but all I can say about them is more fun times are ahead of us.

Bit's

albertMunich
06-09-2010, 05:53 PM
Hi

what a wonderful machine! I'm impressed. Is the setup with the switches on a separate board now a part of the kit? And did you do any modifications on the way the wires for the input and output go together? In the infomercial it was all sort of jerry rigged. If the kit is now THAT complete it is really a beauty.
****, when the kit came out the Euro to Dollar ratio was 1,40 now it is 1,19. Just when I want to buy something real bad....

I have tried your setup with the single battery and the inverter on my three coil machines. Not the added tesla switch though. It could work if your inverter has a minimal comsumption at idle. Mine were too high by 500 mA so it was a close thing. I agree that the lower power the inverter the less it takes at idle. If you can design an inverter circuit that is almost lossless then it will work and this would finally silence the sceptics - the fewer batteries the better. Do you plan to add a generator disc?
Beautiful build. & the house around is beautiful too!
Albert

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-09-2010, 06:37 PM
Hi

what a wonderful machine! I'm impressed. Is the setup with the switches on a separate board now a part of the kit? And did you do any modifications on the way the wires for the input and output go together? In the infomercial it was all sort of jerry rigged. If the kit is now THAT complete it is really a beauty.
****, when the kit came out the Euro to Dollar ratio was 1,40 now it is 1,19. Just when I want to buy something real bad....

I have tried your setup with the single battery and the inverter on my three coil machines. Not the added tesla switch though. It could work if your inverter has a minimal comsumption at idle. Mine were too high by 500 mA so it was a close thing. I agree that the lower power the inverter the less it takes at idle. If you can design an inverter circuit that is almost lossless then it will work and this would finally silence the sceptics - the fewer batteries the better. Do you plan to add a generator disc?
Beautiful build. & the house around is beautiful too!
Albert

Thanks Albert, This kit is very complete (switches included). The only mod I made was to use the "Buss bars" (solid copper wires between the boards). Thanks for the good words on the house. It was a life long dream.

Bit's

albertMunich
06-10-2010, 05:39 PM
Hi Bits,

I just went back to your video channel and saw you are doing the same experiments with generator coils on your 3 coil machine that I am doing right now on mine. I think the generator coils are the trick to turn this into something really interesting. I found that you can use several small caps BEFORE the bridge rectifier in parallel to the coil. With this you can tune the thing for optimum output at a given run speed. I am currently able to run 210 LEDS off the single recovery coil I am using. This is in 7 small white LED lamps that are made for replacing of halogen lights, they normally run on 240 Volts and take 2 watts each. I run them directly off the AC coming from the coil. Makes 14 Watts off the single coil. The interesting thing is that there are several resonance points where the light will go dim, then go bright again as the rotor speeds up. The optimum is at rather low 450 to 500 rpm on my machine. Accidentally I pushed the rotor up to several 1000 rpms this morning and the lights went OUT completely.Goes somewhat against what you would expect. This thing is fulla surprises.
I guess one could tune the generator coils to make a minimum of drag and a maximum output. With an additional generator DISC on the ten coiler and 10 additional coils one might expect to get at least 5 Amps off the machine all the while charging the secondary battery. Or more if you have neo magnets...

Keep going at it and keep us posted!!

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-10-2010, 06:20 PM
Hi Bits,

I just went back to your video channel and saw you are doing the same experiments with generator coils on your 3 coil machine that I am doing right now on mine. I think the generator coils are the trick to turn this into something really interesting. I found that you can use several small caps BEFORE the bridge rectifier in parallel to the coil. With this you can tune the thing for optimum output at a given run speed. I am currently able to run 210 LEDS off the single recovery coil I am using. This is in 7 small white LED lamps that are made for replacing of halogen lights, they normally run on 240 Volts and take 2 watts each. I run them directly off the AC coming from the coil. Makes 14 Watts off the single coil. The interesting thing is that there are several resonance points where the light will go dim, then go bright again as the rotor speeds up. The optimum is at rather low 450 to 500 rpm on my machine. Accidentally I pushed the rotor up to several 1000 rpms this morning and the lights went OUT completely.Goes somewhat against what you would expect. This thing is fulla surprises.
I guess one could tune the generator coils to make a minimum of drag and a maximum output. With an additional generator DISC on the ten coiler and 10 additional coils one might expect to get at least 5 Amps off the machine all the while charging the secondary battery. Or more if you have neo magnets...

Keep going at it and keep us posted!!


Good stuff. I am also working with some gen coils with the X-Coiler. If you want to see things really get interesting take one of the strands of the gen coil (assuming you have a litz wound gen coil) and hook that up the same that you hooked up the normal coils--meaning one end to the drive source and the other to one of the the MJL's (it's ok to also have the original drive coil connection maintained). If you have a 5 filer wound coil, take the remaining 4 and series them up, this should leave you with two wires to connect to the bridge. Run the machine as normal but CHECK THE VOLTAGE AT THE BRIDGE before hooking any other device to it.


Bit's

minoly
06-10-2010, 09:13 PM
Good stuff. I am also working with some gen coils with the X-Coiler. If you want to see things really get interesting take one of the strands of the gen coil (assuming you have a litz wound gen coil) and hook that up the same that you hooked up the normal coils--meaning one end to the drive source and the other to one of the the MJL's (it's ok to also have the original drive coil connection maintained). If you have a 5 filer wound coil, take the remaining 4 and series them up, this should leave you with two wires to connect to the bridge. Run the machine as normal but CHECK THE VOLTAGE AT THE BRIDGE before hooking any other device to it.


Bit's

Is this like harvesting another spike and transforming it 1 to 4 to increase voltage? in addition, advance and retard said coil to see its effect on the entire system as well as its own amperage.
Patrick

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-11-2010, 02:50 AM
Is this like harvesting another spike and transforming it 1 to 4 to increase voltage? in addition, advance and retard said coil to see its effect on the entire system as well as its own amperage.
Patrick

That's basically it. If you understand the "radiant energy" being captured for the output (Charge side) I am utilizing the same concept with additional coils (generating) however, In order to avoid "Uncle Lenz" raining on my parade, I am utilizing the "pulsing action" by just using one of the coil windings. This action, as seen by the rotor, is just another drive coil, but in reality, I am diverenting the "Radiant Energy" to charge a drive battery or as I discovered tonight:eek: , almost being able to drive the entire machine just off of the "gen" coils.

Bit's

juju
06-11-2010, 05:03 AM
have you got the same output (onload) from the charge side, when the generator coils are onload to?

hugs

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-11-2010, 12:07 PM
have you got the same output (onload) from the charge side, when the generator coils are onload to?

hugs

Not sure if I understand the question, but will try and explain. All original coils (10) are producing ouput to the charge side. So far, 2 additional coils have been added (gen coils) and been configured as described earlier. The energy these coils produce are feed into the drive side. Without the inverter on the charge battery, it charges like crazy. I went from 12.1 to 13.5 in about 10 min. I will be adding 2 more coils (Gen) to get closer to making this self running.

Hope this helps.

Bit's

albertMunich
06-11-2010, 01:29 PM
Could you post an image how you added the gen coils? Where is room on the RF machine for that?
I unfortunately have only one 3 filar coil left to test your setup but I'll try it.
Great ideas.
This really advances the thing. I always thought there must be a way to boost the drive batt while it stays connected to the machine. The disconnect-then pulse-then reconnect system is too complicated on a fast running machine because you need to gear down the output shaft -on my machine its too short and just goes beyond the bearing... - I tried it on a one coil bike wheel type machine and it didn't do much.
Albert

Mark
06-11-2010, 01:40 PM
Not sure if I understand the question, but will try and explain. All original coils (10) are producing ouput to the charge side. So far, 2 additional coils have been added (gen coils) and been configured as described earlier. The energy these coils produce are feed into the drive side. Without the inverter on the charge battery, it charges like crazy. I went from 12.1 to 13.5 in about 10 min. I will be adding 2 more coils (Gen) to get closer to making this self running.

Hope this helps.

Bit's

Let me know if I have this correct. You have all 10 coils operating as normal. Your generation coils are 4 strands. One strand is hooked up to pulse the rotor and is paralleled to an existing transistor or did you add another trany. Then you take the remaining 3 wires and series them up and hook them to a FWBR and feed that back into the input battery.

After the bridge is it a direct connection to the input battery?
I assume the gen coils are positioned in between the other coils and if I remember correctly the rotor has 20 magnets so the gen coils fire the same time as the 10 coiler fires, is this correct.

The part I'm having trouble with is how your keeping your gen coil from causing drag on the rotor.

Keep it up Bits!!! Looking forward to hear more. :cheers:

Mark

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-11-2010, 02:29 PM
Let me know if I have this correct. You have all 10 coils operating as normal. Your generation coils are 5 strands. One strand is hooked up to pulse the rotor and is paralleled to an existing transistor Correct. Then you take the remaining 4 wires and series them up and hook them to a Center tapped transformer (rat shack special) 6-0-6 secondary hooked up for the primary in this case, then the primary's (which are now secondary's) hooked to the bridge and feed that back into the input battery. (Still experimenting with the best setup, i.e. Caps / batts etc.)

After the bridge is it a direct connection to the input battery? YES
I assume the gen coils are positioned in between the other coils and if I remember correctly the rotor has 20 magnets so the gen coils fire the same time as the 10 coiler fires, is this correct. Correct

The part I'm having trouble with is how your keeping your gen coil from causing drag on the rotor. See Below

Keep it up Bits!!! Looking forward to hear more. :cheers:

Mark

See Comments above in RED

The part I'm having trouble with is how your keeping your gen coil from causing drag on the rotor.

Ok, here is the deal, the Gen coil is pulsed just as the drive coil is and at the same time. When this pulse occurs in the Gen coil, the same effect happens to the welding rod core (Right hand rule applies here so make sure your windings in the Gen coils are correct to make the core a north polarity) when pulsed. This action hides any "LENZ: effect. Let me say that again (just kidding, but take note). This Gen coil becomes a "drive coil" for a nano second, the rotor sees no lenz, and the Gen coil enjoys all of the radiant energy just as the drive coils do. The coils produce AC and when hooked to to the transformer it does 2 things, the first is isolation, the second is the coils don't see much "Work" thus further diminishing the possibility of the LENZ effect, and third(ok I said 2) is we are able to boost the "Potential". If you'll remember some of my work with the Tesla Switch, We want "Potential". "Let the CAPS do the work"

Bit's

John_K
06-12-2010, 12:28 AM
See Comments above in RED

The part I'm having trouble with is how your keeping your gen coil from causing drag on the rotor.

Ok, here is the deal, the Gen coil is pulsed just as the drive coil is and at the same time. When this pulse occurs in the Gen coil, the same effect happens to the welding rod core (Right hand rule applies here so make sure your windings in the Gen coils are correct to make the core a north polarity) when pulsed. This action hides any "LENZ: effect. Let me say that again (just kidding, but take note). This Gen coil becomes a "drive coil" for a nano second, the rotor sees no lenz, and the Gen coil enjoys all of the radiant energy just as the drive coils do. The coils produce AC and when hooked to to the transformer it does 2 things, the first is isolation, the second is the coils don't see much "Work" thus further diminishing the possibility of the LENZ effect, and third(ok I said 2) is we are able to boost the "Potential". If you'll remember some of my work with the Tesla Switch, We want "Potential". "Let the CAPS do the work"

Bit's

Bit's, how have you hooked up the 6-0-6 transformer? One leg to the centre tap and the other to one of the 6V terminals? Is the HV side of the transformer then connected to the FWBR?

Also, JB has always said that you need to convert the RE to "normal" energy with a cap otherwise you will eventually run the battery down. So using his theory you should have a cap pulser circuit in between the FWBR and the battery.

Apart from that I love how you are pulsing the gen coil, I haven't tried that method. Are you seeing ~2000V on the gen coil when it is pulsed. If so, where? And by serialling the other 4 windings are they acting as a transformer and amplifying the potential?

:cheers:
John K.

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-12-2010, 12:54 AM
Bit's, how have you hooked up the 6-0-6 transformer? One leg to the centre tap and the other to one of the 6V terminals? Is the HV side of the transformer then connected to the FWBR?

Also, JB has always said that you need to convert the RE to "normal" energy with a cap otherwise you will eventually run the battery down. So using his theory you should have a cap pulser circuit in between the FWBR and the battery.

Apart from that I love how you are pulsing the gen coil, I haven't tried that method. Are you seeing ~2000V on the gen coil when it is pulsed. If so, where? And by serialling the other 4 windings are they acting as a transformer and amplifying the potential?

:cheers:
John K.

Hi John, on the transformer I am connecting to the full winding, center tap is not connected. I haven't measured the Peak spike yet. No load on the transformer is about 68.2 volts, but I need more windings (coils). As for the serialing of the coil windings, I don't think that it is transformer action (that is created by the pulse) but mearly just more turns about the core. Make sure when you serialize the winding that you always take the ending wire back to the "next" begining winding"

Bit's

broli
06-12-2010, 08:05 AM
Can someone with this motor please perform a 1 min test if you have an DMM that measures L that is. Measure inductance when magnet is farthest away, and measure inductance when magnet is at TDC. Thanks for the effort.

juju
06-12-2010, 04:24 PM
Hi bytes, thank you!

if the battery is charging like crazy then maybe you allready have self running! :cheers:

but just for clearence... have you allready tryed without "closed loop" at the bedini charge output versus the generator coil output and compare measurements of one, when the other is onload? to see if you loose power from oneside when the other one is loaded?

how much voltage do your generator coils show without load? are you stepping down to 12V and more amperage with the transformer and going to charge battery, or your put it directly AC to the drive side, in parallel with inverter output?

i have to apologize, I went with the wrong foot... please forgive me, dont like the others to question my goals or beliefs and I made you what i dont want to myself, shame on me!

i judge you and you must be such a good person, because your intentions are very pure and you choose to share, persons like you are special!

here is a circuit that aeron shared... he says that this is the best way to close loop a system, because dont kill the dipole, this way the cap dont see the battery, but the battery see the cap... so will not charge it, but only take charge of it, so the juice system takes from the battery is only what the cap was not able to supply and if it is more power that the system needs to run, you will be drawing no more juice of your battery and you will take the "extra" energy out with a zeenier, or voltage regulator!

in my setup "uncle lenz" likes to mess around, because im using drive coils of 2 ohm in series... and the generator coils are 200ohm (hig impedeance), your winding are "one to one" transformer?

again, thank you very much for all!

hug :heartbeat:

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2651/pseudoclosedloop.jpg


Not sure if I understand the question, but will try and explain. All original coils (10) are producing ouput to the charge side. So far, 2 additional coils have been added (gen coils) and been configured as described earlier. The energy these coils produce are feed into the drive side. Without the inverter on the charge battery, it charges like crazy. I went from 12.1 to 13.5 in about 10 min. I will be adding 2 more coils (Gen) to get closer to making this self running.

Hope this helps.

Bit's

minoly
06-13-2010, 12:59 AM
Hi John, on the transformer I am connecting to the full winding, center tap is not connected. I haven't measured the Peak spike yet. No load on the transformer is about 68.2 volts, but I need more windings (coils). As for the serialing of the coil windings, I don't think that it is transformer action (that is created by the pulse) but mearly just more turns about the core. Make sure when you serialize the winding that you always take the ending wire back to the "next" begining winding"

Bit's

When we hook up the scope to our build, we see both the transformer from radiant spike as well as the generator action. our coil is advanced 22 degrees or we do not see much of the generator action.

juju
06-13-2010, 01:12 AM
Could you please refer us to the thread where you found this diagram.

The thread is the earth battery, the guys were studing a method to improve the stubblefield coil!

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2209-earth-battery-sg-19.html

hugs :cheers:

Bit's-n-Bytes
06-13-2010, 01:47 AM
When we hook up the scope to our build, we see both the transformer from radiant spike as well as the generator action. our coil is advanced 22 degrees or we do not see much of the generator action.

I don't have my coils advanced. They fire at the same time the drive coils do.

Bit's

Aaron
06-13-2010, 02:20 AM
here is a circuit that aeron shared... he says that this is the best way to close loop a system, because dont kill the dipole, this way the cap dont see the battery, but the battery see the cap... so will not charge it, but only take charge of it, so the juice system takes from the battery is only what the cap was not able to supply and if it is more power that the system needs to run, you will be drawing no more juice of your battery and you will take the "extra" energy out with a zeenier, or voltage regulator!

I didn't claim it is the best but rather one of the keys to show how to take
output from the back and put it to the front without the front power supply
ever seeing it. "pseudo close-looped" so to speak.

It definitely works and can usually cut power consumption from the
source power supply by half, easily. There are other variations of this
CONCEPT that can be done and there are other sources of input that can
be added to the input without the battery being used to both power
something and be charged at the same time or alternatively, which the
battery doesn't like very much, under normal circumstances. Some of
the other sources of input can be from earth battery/rod set up's, etc...

broli
06-13-2010, 06:39 AM
Can someone with this motor please perform a 1 min test if you have an DMM that measures L that is. Measure inductance when magnet is farthest away, and measure inductance when magnet is at TDC. Thanks for the effort.

No one? I'm not asking much.

nvisser
06-13-2010, 07:04 AM
I have got a LC meter and a loose 8 filar coil. I will do a measurement for you but keep in mind that my coil is not the same as the one from the kit as I don't no the coil size , number of turns and wire # that they use.

broli
06-13-2010, 07:11 AM
I have got a LC meter and a loose 8 filar coil. I will do a measurement for you but keep in mind that my coil is not the same as the one from the kit as I don't no the coil size , number of turns and wire # that they use.

Thanks. Don't worry about that as long as you share the specs of the coil and core that is fine. It's intended for a different project and would like to see how much inductance changes when a magnet is near a core of the coil.

nvisser
06-13-2010, 07:32 AM
I have to report that the inductance stays the same with or without the magnet. There is a slight change while the magnet is moving but after it has stuck to the core at tdc it goes back to it's original reading
Coil size: 60mm x 60mm
core size: 20mm pvc with wire inside
9 Strands of 24# wire
Each strand measures around 4.8 ohm
Inductance of each strand without magnet: 6.6mH
Inductance with magnet at tdc: Also 6.6mH

broli
06-13-2010, 07:57 AM
Sorry your numbers are a bit confusing without any description. For instance 60mm x 60mm measured how exactly? And by "wire inside" do you mean steel rods used as core material?

If that's the case then that's not normal. If the magnet is even stuck to the core without any change then the core is seemingly doing nothing. Have you tried sticking a magnet on both sides too?