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View Full Version : Purple neon flash with separate coil (Bedini SSG)


Zooty
11-06-2009, 01:38 PM
Hi all, i just wanted to show this interesting effect because the idea has been playing on my mind for a while. Today i decided to put it to the test and it works pretty well. We know that when the magnetic field collapses around the coil, a high voltage spike is created. To me this is like a normal magnetic field cutting the coil producing voltage but much much faster hence no real current but much higher voltage almost like time compressing the event. I wondered weather putting another coil inside this field collapse would create the additional spikes without affecting the strength of the spike on the bedini coil and im pretty sure this is the case. What i have done is created a new core with the same type welding rods but twice as long so that i can fit another separate coil behind the bedini coil a la Fusion Chip. I have this second coil attached directly to a neon bulb. For now i just short the coil repeatedly while the unit is running.. most of the time you see an orange flash which means the coil is being shorted when a magnet is TDC.. This is not what we want to do as that is situation draws more from the primary just like a generator and causes drag. When i manage to short this coil during the field collapse just after TDC, the purple flash appears. I have included a pic of the coil setup and a small video clip to show the effect.

YouTube - Purple flash on separate coil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEosB9OCFOA)

Zooty
11-06-2009, 02:32 PM
A quick update. The purple flashing effect becomes harder to reproduce the more you do it. After replacing the neon with a new one, the effect is back. The contacts inside the bulb get darker the more it flashes. Maybe resistance is building up on the contacts suppressing the effect. It looks as if the purple flash is an arc between the contacts inside the bulb which would make sense if it is very high voltage. Nonetheless, the effect is there only after TDC. Also, Orange/Red from the normal bulb operation plus Blue/Green arc should give purple.

*UPDATE*

After playing around i can confirm that when the purple flash happens, the output across the diode in the bedini circuit going to the charging battery is not affected. As an indication, i am measuring the voltage across the diode to the charging battery and its around 3 volts above the battery. When i short the coil at the wrong time, the voltage across the diode drops but when i do it and get the purple flash, the voltage either stays the same or drops by 0.01 volts. I am in the process of building something to transfer this new spike to the primary side. Update coming soon :)

nvisser
11-06-2009, 07:36 PM
Do you short it with a read switch?

Zooty
11-06-2009, 07:48 PM
at the moment im just shorting it with the bear wires at a join i made from the coil. I just tried with a read switch and it lights the neon the same as not having the charging battery connected. i also noticed the voltage increase over the diode. Im just trying to figure out a way to connect it to a load but its proving a bit difficult. It looks like im going to have have a second reed switch firing at the same time. The problem is, with a neon connected there is no load on the coil because it is always open circuit even inside the neon but when i connect a load with resistance it starts drawing power like a generator. If i put a second reed switch on one side of the coil, i can close and short the coil at the same time across a load

redeagle
11-06-2009, 10:50 PM
at the moment im just shorting it with the bear wires at a join i made from the coil. I just tried with a read switch and it lights the neon the same as not having the charging battery connected. i also noticed the voltage increase over the diode. Im just trying to figure out a way to connect it to a load but its proving a bit difficult. It looks like im going to have have a second reed switch firing at the same time. The problem is, with a neon connected there is no load on the coil because it is always open circuit even inside the neon but when i connect a load with resistance it starts drawing power like a generator. If i put a second reed switch on one side of the coil, i can close and short the coil at the same time across a load

Use a bridge rectifier and short the coil before the bridge. Just remember that you need to run a capacitive load such as a second charge battery or a capacitor. You can actually use the energy to run a second motor coil provided that you keep the voltage on the capacitor above what the coil is generating as normal current.

Zooty
11-06-2009, 11:49 PM
Hi redeagle, i think i tried what you are talking about but it didnt work because the coil is attached directly to the cap now acting like a generator causing drag and raising input. I attached an image.. excuse the drawing.

Inquorate
11-06-2009, 11:54 PM
If you change the legs of the neon around, it will flash again. Eventually the glass goes silver.

I believe it's caused by huge voltage spikes.

I've got a bunch of videos on youtube; search for purple flash.

Love and light

Zooty
11-07-2009, 12:25 AM
these huge voltage spikes are coming from a coil independent of the bedini coil, its just how to use them now :thinking:

ren
11-07-2009, 12:32 AM
Hi Zooty,

I have something similar in the works right now. Im just taking my time assembling it. You need to design a method to time the discharge from your generating coil in accordance with the rotors position. I am going to use mechanical means to short mine, because its the easiest and cheapest way possible.

You could dump this coil into another battery, or into a capacitor and into a load. More to come soon.

Good work.

redeagle
11-07-2009, 12:41 AM
Just curious what is the ac voltage reading off of your generator coil?

Zooty
11-07-2009, 12:56 AM
15.6VAC open circuit.

redeagle
11-07-2009, 01:23 AM
that would explain the drag when you connect a 12 volt battery constantly to the bridge. if you have enough try putting two in series for a 24v load that should get rid of most of your drag.

From my experiences with shorted generator coils if the battery is avoge the peak voltage of your generator then the battery cannot create a drag on the rotor. you can find out the true peak by charging a cap until it peaks out.
You may even want to re wind your coil so you have more parallel windings as opposed to fewer long ones. It will reduce the total voltage but would make it suitable for lower voltage charging and give you an amp boost on the charging side.

It just all depends on the load you wish to run. if you are wanting to light CFLs with the spike then you may consider a single high inductance winding. But at those voltages you are going to have to switch to a different means of shorting the coil perhaps mechanical. Reeds love to be fried i have a collection of them.

Just for information purposes i was using a newman style generator 6-500ft strands of 24g solid phone wire I also have another spool with about 400 feet on each strand. roter is a stack of NEOs on a 5/16 shaft.

Zooty
11-07-2009, 02:30 AM
What i love about this setup is that the bedini side is completely unaffected when the second coil is pulsed at the right time. The neon is flashing purple so i know the output is close to that of the bedini side. I might sound optimistic but maybe i can replace the front end with a cap, dump this spike to the front and once per rotation, pulse the charging battery to the front cap via a relay to keep it topped up. The wheel already manages a full rotation with a 100v 10,000uf cap charged to 12v. If this spike can keep most of the primary caps voltage then the charging battery will only have to supply a few volts to keep it up there allowing the battery to still charge. I will just have to build it and experiment.

nvisser
11-07-2009, 07:00 AM
that would explain the drag when you connect a 12 volt battery constantly to the bridge. if you have enough try putting two in series for a 24v load that should get rid of most of your drag.

From my experiences with shorted generator coils if the battery is avoge the peak voltage of your generator then the battery cannot create a drag on the rotor. you can find out the true peak by charging a cap until it peaks out.
You may even want to re wind your coil so you have more parallel windings as opposed to fewer long ones. It will reduce the total voltage but would make it suitable for lower voltage charging and give you an amp boost on the charging side.

It just all depends on the load you wish to run. if you are wanting to light CFLs with the spike then you may consider a single high inductance winding. But at those voltages you are going to have to switch to a different means of shorting the coil perhaps mechanical. Reeds love to be fried i have a collection of them.

Just for information purposes i was using a newman style generator 6-500ft strands of 24g solid phone wire I also have another spool with about 400 feet on each strand. roter is a stack of NEOs on a 5/16 shaft.

Redeagle
This is now what I call usefull information that you dont easily get on this website
I also found that if you only charge a say 47uf 250v cap and pulse discharge it to the battery at say 24v , it does not cause drag as when you connect the battery straight to the bridge and cap. I used the simple scr pulse switch as discussed on post 15 here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4887-method-dump-cap-voltage-battery.html

Zooty
11-07-2009, 12:12 PM
but doesn't charging the cap in the first place cause drag as it is connected directly to the bridge? Or am i missing something? I thought any load across a coil would cause some drag, unless you are pulse the coil when a magnet is not directly over the core. What i am proposing here is that there is energy for the taking after the magnet has passed the core. The time window is very small, i believe it starts as the field around the coil collapses just as the magnet has left the core and this is the time to pulse short the coil.

Just a thought but it would seem that creating a magnetic field using current gets more difficult the bigger the field you want to create. The opposite of creating the field is the collapse of the field and maybe its creation properties are also the opposite as in, you cant hold back the collapse no matter what you do, its going to collapse hard and fast. Put as much wire as you can in the field collapse to take advantage of the phenomena. I'm not saying this is how it is but its just my interpretation of it.

nvisser
11-07-2009, 12:31 PM
I think you are correct. I was thinking about when I charge a cap directly from the diode on the ssg with the reactive power
A generator coil will be a different case.

Zooty
11-07-2009, 12:46 PM
This got me thinking about Bedinis FEG .. in a way, its the same principal. Use strong magnets on a separate rotor with coils and short the coils just after the magnets leave the cores. On a standard SSG, the magnets are not really strong enough to saturate the core making a good field unless you input some extra field via current. It just so happens that this is part of the bedini coil so extending the core ensures a bigger field and a piggyback coil pulsed at the same time as the SSG coil turns off will provide an extra spike in parallel to the main spike without affecting operation.

Inquorate
11-07-2009, 01:04 PM
I've not taken this beyond the idea, but after 2000 views it's still got 5 stars so I guess ppl like the idea..

YouTube - lenzless bedini motor - no transistors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f69vjd8Pjs&feature=PlayList&p=2317CB3CDEDD5D2E&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=35)

Instead of a reed switch you can use a hall effect transistor to detect the passing magnet and connect an air coil at the right time.

YouTube - Bedini Cole Window motor. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnHDRjO7BGE)

Love and light

Zooty
11-07-2009, 01:18 PM
Im interested in the coil on the right side of your diagram in the video. Do you get the neon flash when the reed switch closes? Ah.. brain wave! Im not getting the flash with that configuration because the neon is open circuit, if i put a cap in place, it will make a path and grab the spike.. ??? as if the cap is making the short?

Inquorate
11-07-2009, 01:45 PM
I'm theorizing but suppose the neon only allows current to flow once potential is about 90 volts.

If the timing is correct, the neon will start conducting way over 90v, and eject material off the electrodes like a sparking contact that becomes pitted.

Otherwise, the neon will eat the voltage spike over 90v and you just get orange light.

A cap while filling is completing the circuit. You will have Lenz drag due to current flow in the coil.

A reed switch or hall effect transistor can close the coil just at the right moment; minimal drag, maximum spike.

Love and light

Zooty
11-07-2009, 02:04 PM
Well you are 100% correct i just built it :notworthy: .. The Bedini side is totally unaffected charging the battery at the same rate as before.. the input is the same, rotor speed is the same but now i am also getting 6.6v across a 12v 100ma globe connected to a cap.. all for free. My mistake was testing it with a neon. Thank you :cheers:

I forgot to mention the reed switch has absolutely no arcing or chattering noise in the correct position :)

Zooty
11-07-2009, 03:26 PM
My input current draw was around 350ma because i had 200ohms set as my base resistance.. i changed it for 1k, the input dropped to 150ma and the voltage across the bulb/cap dropped to 3.6v which is better than i thought. I had an unused third winding on the bedini coil so i decided to connect it in parallel with the piggyback coil.. input stayed the same, rotation the same if not up a bit, charging voltage across the diode on the bedini side has gone up by 20mv and the voltage across the bulb/cap is now at 9.6v. I will be putting a video up soon.

redeagle
11-07-2009, 04:36 PM
but doesn't charging the cap in the first place cause drag as it is connected directly to the bridge? Or am i missing something? I thought any load across a coil would cause some drag, unless you are pulse the coil when a magnet is not directly over the core. What i am proposing here is that there is energy for the taking after the magnet has passed the core. The time window is very small, i believe it starts as the field around the coil collapses just as the magnet has left the core and this is the time to pulse short the coil.

Just a thought but it would seem that creating a magnetic field using current gets more difficult the bigger the field you want to create. The opposite of creating the field is the collapse of the field and maybe its creation properties are also the opposite as in, you cant hold back the collapse no matter what you do, its going to collapse hard and fast. Put as much wire as you can in the field collapse to take advantage of the phenomena. I'm not saying this is how it is but its just my interpretation of it.

True any load will cause drag. But a capacitor that is above the voltage of the sine wave portion of the generator has infinite resistance relative to the sine wave. So the generator does not see it as a load and the only thing that keeps it charging is the inductive collapse of the field you create by shorting the coil. Say without the pulse your generator peaks the cap at 15 volts as the cap is charging the resistance keeps rising towards infinity relative to the 15 volt power source. The point i am trying to make is if there is no "positive" current from the generator then there is no drag. Except for what the core makes while the magnet is leaving it and the brief period that the coil is shorted.

Your theory about putting a lot of wire in the magnetic field to collect the collapse has a lot of merit. if you think about Bedini's huge systems that uses the surplus traction bateries. they are extremely low impedance relative to the radiant collapse. If this is negative energy as the posted theories claim. then the impedance of the load has a major impact on the amount of energy you can get out of the system. the lower the impedance the more amps you can get out of the system. But there are limits. a lot of low turn parallel wires will give your the most amps from the collapse, but you sacrifice on voltage. So it would seem better to have a load that can turn the voltage into amperage without having to eat the additional wattage that reducing the voltage output gives. The best medium we have for this currently is a capacitor.

I guess it all depends on what type of load you want to power.

Inquorate
11-08-2009, 12:38 AM
My input current draw was around 350ma because i had 200ohms set as my base resistance.. i changed it for 1k, the input dropped to 150ma and the voltage across the bulb/cap dropped to 3.6v which is better than i thought. I had an unused third winding on the bedini coil so i decided to connect it in parallel with the piggyback coil.. input stayed the same, rotation the same if not up a bit, charging voltage across the diode on the bedini side has gone up by 20mv and the voltage across the bulb/cap is now at 9.6v. I will be putting a video up soon.

Always gratifying when theorizing equates to practice :)

Am I right in interpreting that you are getting extra output with no more input?

Looking forward to the video.

nvisser
11-08-2009, 01:36 PM
Redeagle
If I understood you correct I see the setup as follows:
Say your generator coils generates a 16v ac sine wave.
You connect the ac through a full bridge to a capacitor of about 470uf.
The cap will charge up to about 22v or somewhere above 16 v dc where it peaks and its resistance is high relative to the 16v power source.
At that point there is no "positive" current flow from the generator and there is no drag.
Now if you short the coil very fast at TDC or (30 deg after TDC as some says), the spikes that are created will charge the cap very fast to a higher voltage of who knows where to. Still no "positive" current flow
If I now discharge the cap to a 24v battery when the cap reach say 48v, with a scr trigger circuit, the cap will immediately discharge to the battery to the current battery level of say 23v and than start to charge again to the 48v level.
Never reaching the the 16v level again and so not creating drag again.

Maybe this is the way to match impedance or match load to source that they talk about

This is a lot like the method where they tap the resonance with a diode plug and a scr trigger circuit to not kill the resonance. (Hector Perez)

redeagle
11-09-2009, 01:18 AM
Nvisser. That is exactl my point. And there are advantages and disadvantages to the idea.
Pro you can eliminate some of the swiching needed to isolate the cap from he coil except when it's collapsing
Con you have to maintain that minimum voltage on the system.

Getting the most bang for your buck all depends on your load you wish to run.
One idea to eliminate some of the waste of the shorted pulse is to pulse it through a low impedance coil in a transformer then stepping up the voltage to a usuable level with a BR on the secondary charging another cap. If you try this it is recommended to use double pole switchng to isolate the xfmr from the coil when the circuit opens back up. I did this with one of my generator coils and was able to get a neon to light up but no significant current.

But it all depends on the wave form you want your output to have and what kind of load you want to power. the scalar wave is a matter of timing of the short to the coil and a management of the voltage level of the receiving cap.

But the sky is the limit...literally...a guy gave me a link to a resonant antenna circuit that produces scalar wave outputs i'll see if he can find that link again

sucahyo
11-12-2009, 05:39 AM
When I try to replicate my latest circuit I found that I can produce rather bright purple and it is repeatable. The circuit failed to produce current, but it produce very high voltage when not connected :(.

3 minutes video showing many purple flash:
YouTube - Purple flashing show off (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiSjDXvJHe0)

In case you didn't notice it, the diode only light up at one side during normal orange light since it is the recovery part, while during purple it light up both.

Zooty
11-12-2009, 10:39 AM
@sucahyo, It is good that you are not producing current. If you are producing current then it is not radiant energy. Charging batteries with current will heat them up like a conventional charger and cause them to wear down after every charge. The high voltage spike is not actually charging the battery. It is a mechanism to push the heavy ions in the battery backwards making the battery charge itself so you can see, charging can be done without real wattage and the battery stays new internally. I can charge a 12v 18ah SLA fully from dead over night and the battery is seeing only 15v@35ma = 0.5 watts. Also, this is a pulse at around 25% duty cycle so if you converted it to constant DC power, you would be shocked i think. I think we can safely confirm its not the pulse directly charging the battery.

sucahyo
11-13-2009, 01:25 AM
@sucahyo, It is good that you are not producing current. If you are producing current then it is not radiant energy. Charging batteries with current will heat them up like a conventional charger and cause them to wear down after every charge. The high voltage spike is not actually charging the battery. It is a mechanism to push the heavy ions in the battery backwards making the battery charge itself so you can see, charging can be done without real wattage and the battery stays new internally. I can charge a 12v 18ah SLA fully from dead over night and the battery is seeing only 15v@35ma = 0.5 watts. Also, this is a pulse at around 25% duty cycle so if you converted it to constant DC power, you would be shocked i think. I think we can safely confirm its not the pulse directly charging the battery.Ok.

I don't know how, but now the circuit produce current now if I swap the hv leg (purple flasher config, same as car coil). 60mA at 12V charging 2.8V battery at 80mA.

Very low current is still current, since battery still need some current to charge. I also have the same experience, charging with 700mA for 2.8V battery will make them hot with 2Amp input. I now charge at under 150mA output rate on 2.8 battery with around 150amp input.