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Shamus
04-30-2009, 12:31 AM
I didn't see a thread to discuss this particular machine, so I thought I'd create this one. This is the machine that makes up part one of the Bearden-Bedini book "Free Energy Generation". It's also been called the "1984" machine and also the "Watson" machine. Basically, it's a motor connected to a flywheel and wheel with magnets that turns in close proximity to a series of coils. Interesting machine. :)

I'm intending to build one just to see if it's all it's cracked up to be. Will post more as things develop. :thumbsup:

tjnlsn255
04-30-2009, 11:28 AM
Are there schematics or an electrical diagram for the FEG in the book?

Is there a link to the FEG schematic and/or technical description on the web?

Have a most excellent day....

Tj

baroutologos
04-30-2009, 12:32 PM
Thanks Shamus for the topic generation!

Actually there is a similar topic called "The Watson Machine" which is poorly developed.

I cannot stress anymore that people with considerable machining and electroNics skills that are after free energy production should focus in the replication of Bedini FEG machine and improvement actually :)

Many people should argue (and perhaps being partially right) that the Simple School Girl machine either in monopole or multipole setup, is an advancement of FEG.

Personal View
..............................

Although they seem similar, I have reasons to believe that they are NOT. SSG deals with the issue of achieving Overunity via batteries by utilizing the much disputed radiant energy. (I have built some ssgs mylself could not achieve OU. Note that i serious lack knowledge compared with Mr Bedini in the electrical-mechanic art) :)

FEG on the other hand, i believe has nothing to do with radiant energy (i could be wrong) I also believe it is a LENZ'less Law generator. that's right.
It creates power by bypassing Lenz' Law.The energy creation happens in the energizer, not capacitor, whereas the capacitor and battery serve as energy storage.

Things that many of us have noted
..................................................

How many of you have noted that adding a passive generator coil next to a spinning magnet rotor, although the energy creation is minute, the rotor DOES NOT slow down? I suppose many.

A small experiment of mine
.......................................

My last SSG setup, has a namely current input 200mA @ 15 volts
It charges 2 batteries 12volts series connected (24 volts). I have put an analog high quality amp meter and it registers an charging of 50mA.

I have also made an passive generator coil of 29AGW that has 360 Ohms resistance.!!! yes, it weights some 1 kgr and its self inductunce is huge.

If get it close to rotor (300 rpm 18 magnets all N out) it creates some 100 VAC. Painful to the touch. When shorted it creates an 20 mA AC current but no more. This current could be stepped down using a transformer and power a little lamp or.... could be used via FWBR to charge the series connected batteries by an additional non-spiking 15 mA current. (totaling 65 mA)

All this without, slowing down the rotor. And i wonder like a noob... why is that?


Similar setups - Heins Thane Perepiteia
.................................................. ......

Viewing many OU machines, there is one working that has a remarkable resemblence to Bedini FEG machine. It is called Perepiteia of Heins Thane.
the inventor says. When a High voltage coil is brought next to a spining magnets rotor it creates little current and high voltage. SO WHAT? :p

The interesting part is that he notes above a critical RPM the coil when shorted or load applied has NOT any drag on rotor, but instead it creates ACCELARATION. LoL? True he says. You can harness the accelaration though by adding a High current coil that goes with Lenz's Law.

What is a High voltage coil??? High voltage coil stands for a super-high impedance and consequently high voltage generation coil and consequently low current creation. Note that its Power in NOT negligible. It is actually considerable. i.e HV coil
When he mentions High current coil he means low turns, higher wire diameter, lower comparable voltage, higher current creation. i.e. HC coil

So what the man says? When a super high self-inductunce coil is made to generate current in a spinning rotor, above a certain threshold RPM the power generation is NOT oppossing rotor speed, BUT it actually accelarates it!

Perepiteia? WTF has to do with Bedini FEG??? :mad:
.................................................. .........................

Visualize this. Bedini FEG employs six magnets all north out (could be 30 :) ) as magnet on spinning rotor and 6 coils all in phase (Why all North face out are for? To create a single phase power generation over coils)

Note that coils are series connected. So what? Simply results in a huge relatively high inductunce and high voltage generator coil. Few current present of course.

If you have so far have inquired and understood Perepiteia's design you have propably figured out that FEG's energizer is an effective combo of peripeteia's HV coil and HC coil.

Bedini since 1984 have employed an high voltage power generation method in contrast to normal generator mode we know so far, thus achieving power making and not slowing the rotor down. So not significant drag is created, but on the other hand the thicker wire he uses and the lessers turns compared with finer wires of Perepiteia (say 30awg) assures that the whole procedure creates some current for power purposes.

it seems to me a high voltage + a high current coil put together.
Someone must note THAT: In bedini's book he does not mentions that energizer uses a FWBR before the CAP. Oh yes... he does.

BEDINI'S FREE ENERGY GENERATOR (http://www.icehouse.net/john1/foreward.html)
have a look at this. So, the energizer does not work on resonace, between coil and cap rather as very special generator.

Why pulse motor??
.................................................. ..
Obviously, if you can sustain rotor rpm for less power why using more?? :P So an efficient motor used, compared withe Thane's Peripeteia that uses a grinder (200 watts power consuptions overshadows the energy creation)

why flywheel?
..........................
I believe to smooth out pulsed motion. What else could be?


Ok, mr Baroutologos. Give us a break smart..ss
.................................................. ..........
Peole, i must say i do not wish being smart. I want to achieve free energy as you are. I just point out few things. It must be noted that people are far more intrigued by OU devices of utilizing radiant energy than those are not. Why is that?
Its more mystical, more arcane more.... u got the picture. :P
I say, instead of rushing ahead, we should take things from start. So IF OU is sought, so then the FEG is one way.

Bedini has countless times said that SSG is a not OU device. What the same man has said about FEG? He has said FEG will create energy for your needs. SO FEG is an OU device (full stop)

Sorry for being length..

regards,

Baroutologos

tjnlsn255
04-30-2009, 12:47 PM
Observation.....

To me the SSG does look to be advanced from the FEG because no complicated controller is required and there is no need for a second motor....

What am I missing?

Be happy.....

Tj

baroutologos
04-30-2009, 01:00 PM
Observation.....

To me the SSG does look to be advanced from the FEG because no complicated controller is required and there is no need for a second motor....

What am I missing?

Be happy.....
Tj

I believe Tj that the FEG energizer is difficult to be accomodated by the SSG rotor. Though can be done.

Best way to avoid the timing and second motor IMO, :) is to have a somewhat torquy and relative high speed SSG 2000-3000 rmp as the pulsed motor portion, (with all SGG frienged benefits of course) and to the same shaft you could have another rotor that have AXIALLY mounted magnets for the energizer portion.

Of course you can have all in the same rotor power coils and passive coils, but this is more elaborate IMO.

Regards,
baroutologos

Hoppy
04-30-2009, 02:10 PM
I believe Tj that the FEG energizer is difficult to be accomodated by the SSG rotor. Though can be done.

Best way to avoid the timing and second motor IMO, :) is to have a somewhat torquy and relative high speed SSG 2000-3000 rmp as the pulsed motor portion, (with all SGG frienged benefits of course) and to the same shaft you could have another rotor that have AXIALLY mounted magnets for the energizer portion.

Of course you can have all in the same rotor power coils and passive coils, but this is more elaborate IMO.

Regards,
baroutologos

My understanding is that the SSG is an advancement on the FEG. John Bedini has stated that the original and inneficient PM motor used on the FEG needed to improved upon and the SSG was a development to do this. The multi-coil SG is the North Pole motor and to the shaft, a passive generator can be attached to provide the series coils of high self inductance. As we know, the coil discharge from the motor can be recovered to charge a secondary battery which can in turn be switched to power the motor via an inverter / PSU or DC to DC converter to convert the negatively charged secondary battery back to a positive energy source suitable to power the motor. The passive generator can 'back-pop' the primary battery or charge a seperate secondary battery from its storage cap bank. Taking all the energies into consideration, the SG with passive generator is claimed to produce an overall gain but I think this has to include the theoretical and highly contentious radiant gain through transmutated energy in the secondary battery being charged by the motor power coil discharge (not BEMF - wrong term).

There is too much Lenz drag in a PM motor to be compensated elsewhere in the overall system. The Window motor is a further development to improve shaft torque for driving passive generator coils, although it does not allow as much electrical energy to be recovered from its output. The snag as I see it with this SG / generator system is that when the rotor is loaded with generator coils, the power coil recoveries drop and as a result OU cannot be achieved. If the rotor on a simple vanilla SSG is loaded, this can easily be seen by a drop in charge rate of the secondary battery. IMO this leaves the question as to whether its OU or not as a matter of opinion, not fact.

Hoppy

baroutologos
04-30-2009, 02:17 PM
Let's put it that way....

How many replications of the FEG have you seen and how many of SSG? 1? 2?
Watson? And it was surpressed readily therafter.

Why is that?

I think its because FEG its an generator of great potential whereas SSG is a science fair, conceptual device that, apart from battery charging, batt desulfating and wall decor has no other real use:)

No disrespect shown. But its true.

Just to give you an order of magnitude, a relative small sized SSG if ever managed to achieved OU can output only milli-watts, At best few watts. The similar sized feg, if made reasonably well, can give tens or even hundereds of surplus watts. got the picture?

You will wonder, HTF i can tell such things...
1st by careful studyning JB FEG book
2nd by calculations. You can always have the energizer with neo magnets instead of ferrites, and with the appropriate cogging torque balancing you can have a stupendous force FEG. On the other hand SSG wont run easily on powerful neomagnets.

Please, let this thread be dedicated to the builders of the FEG machine. Let's just put all things together and set up it right. JB wont going to help us on this. His reasons are clear. (Watson incidence). I expect setups to be posted and questions raised. This forum has a legacy though :)

Bottom line. IF ANY CONSIDERABLE energy production is sought FEG is one way. (firm bilief)

Regards,
Baroutologos

Burned_NE2
04-30-2009, 02:59 PM
I didn't see a thread to discuss this particular machine, so I thought I'd create this one. This is the machine that makes up part one of the Bearden-Bedini book "Free Energy Generation". It's also been called the "1984" machine and also the "Watson" machine. Basically, it's a motor connected to a flywheel and wheel with magnets that turns in close proximity to a series of coils. Interesting machine. :)

I'm intending to build one just to see if it's all it's cracked up to be. Will post more as things develop. :thumbsup:

Hi All;

Actually there was a thread opened for the FEG at:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3927-watson-machine.html

Peter L. left a good post to describe it at:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3927-watson-machine.html#post48882

Regards,
Paul

Shamus
04-30-2009, 07:22 PM
Thanks for that, I had forgotten about that thread; Peter's explanation of the machine is quite good. At any rate, I will consider this thread closed in favor of that one. :thumbsup:

vzon17
05-01-2009, 06:44 AM
Observation.....

To me the SSG does look to be advanced from the FEG because no complicated controller is required and there is no need for a second motor....

What am I missing?

Be happy.....

Tj

It is, the bedini SSG is an evolution of the free energy machine. all the components of the free energy machine are incorporated into the SSG

But still there are some interesting aspects of the FEG. I am in the middle of buliding one myself. the drive motor will be a Peter Lindemann attraction motor I am building. already got a shaved rotor and the stator winding wound in there and some ball bearing installed and got a flywheel as well. but it needs to be turned on a lathe to straighten it out. Its made from a 4 inch cast iron caster wheel.
I may take some pictures at some point of all the parts, next step is rigging up the reed switch to run the motor.

baroutologos
05-01-2009, 07:55 AM
I am also in the process of making one myself.

This week ordered parts from all over the world. Suitable ferrite magnets, neo magnets, RG60's, alluminum rotors, wires etc

what i plan to make: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4143-high-speed-ssg-advise-pls.html

My plans is to make the motor an SSG one with some torque on it.
Expect in a month to have photos to share with the forum.

It will be a pleasure to see other's people's attempts, ideas sharing and mutual problem handling. :)

Regards,
Baroutologos

PS: i do not like the other thread watson's machine :) because it is not watson's machine. it's Bedini's FEG principle._

nvisser
05-01-2009, 11:00 PM
In the Watson machine threat , Peter lindermann states:
"The pulsed alternator will give you a nice high voltage if the cap is adjusted for resonance at the operating speed (note the current meter in John's schematic). This will indeed reduce the lenz drag since less current is being drawn from the magnets. This is the most efficient way to extract energy from an alternator. This is commonly done on SSG setups to extract extra energy from the wheel using an extra generator coil, although a cap is generally not employed."

I am not sure if he talks about the cap after the bridge
I used a paralel resonance cap before the bridge in parr. with my 4 coils. It about doubles the voltage at a certain frequency and creates a nice sine wave but it creates a lot of drag which I noticed on the amps drawn by the motor and of cause the rpm.According to theory at parralel resonance you are supposed to draw less energy from your source and i suppose less drag from the magnets.
I connected it that way as John Bedini recommended that configiration on his 1984 booklet.He actually shows a cap in parralel with every coil. His coils was 24awg , 250turns, which to me are current coils. Very confusing! Mine are 400turns
I think my rpm`s are to low. 8 magnets gives me a pulse rate of about 100 hz when in resonance. That is 750RPM, and bedini states that he used about 2500 rpm. I will have to run my motor from 24v and see what happens at a higher rpm
I also tried something that Tom Bearden said on his :back popping a two current lead-acid battery" document where he discusses in very complicated english the bedini, watson, nelson principle
I quote
"So you produce a large overpotential in spike or very sudden buildup, essentially "for free" or nearly so. The other end of that overpotential can be connected (switched onto) the load to deliver a surge of power (sorry for the "normal" terminology!) in the load because of the surge of the overpotential across it. If you time it correctly, you can get a much higher voltage surge from that overpotential, across the load's impedance. And that means you generate a higher electron current through that load, which consequently produces greater power because of the overpotential, than what you yourself had to pay for.
Clever devil that you are, you used that massive old ion current's overshoot to "squeeze" the charge density dramatically upward and almost freely form that overpotential for you. Then you adroitly (and quite suddenly) connected that overpotential near its peak, right across the external circuit electrons, to power the load, and "let 'er rip. "

A bit difficult to understand.
I used a relay to switch the motor between the battery and the charged cap
That is , while the motor is driven by the battery, the cap gets charged from the resonant energizer.Then when the motor is switched away from the battery to the cap, the battery gets charged straight from the parralel resonant energizer
So far I do not get my battery to charge. It stays on the same voltage like a self runner ssg! Well at least for 30 minutes
The next will be to put more turns on my coils (say another 400) That will be about 800 turn 24awg and if it still doest work to install another 4 coils .

Some thing that also bothers me is the fact that Tom Bearden says you have to use microvawe switching in the region of 1 nano second( I suppose that is rising edge) I cannot find any common electronic component that can switch so fast. Not a opto coupler or on shot ic.
The circuits that I found on Bearden`s website for backpoppers all use a optocoupler
and a transistor and a scr. Not 1 nsec!
I quote from Bearden:" Let me warn you that you must use microwave switching techniques, and you must switch in 5 nanoseconds or less; one nanosecond is better. The entire overpotential is likely to be over in about 20 to 40 nanoseconds, depending upon the specific battery, load, and other circuit conditions. Capacitance effects may extend this in some cases up to a microsecond. So if all you know is ordinary motor switching, go get the services of a microwave switching engineer first. The average motor switching fellow will be amazed at the notion of switching so suddenly. The microwave switching engineer will simply shrug his shoulders and say, "Piece of cake!" He does that every day without a second's hesitation. "

Not very motivating for me. But I will keep on trying!
Here is a interesting pdf on resonance and radiant energy.
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Combine.pdf

nvisser
05-06-2009, 07:10 PM
Here is an explanation I found from John Bedini :

"What is it that I'm really saying?. I'm saying once the machine starts and is pulsed by the controller, or commutator there is a switching taking place between the motor and the magneto using a capacitor that is being charged by the magneto in the OPEN path, while the motor is drawing a momentary current in a CLOSED path the two do not interfere with each other. So the magneto is something STATIC like a lighting bolt, just a CHARGE no real current. This is where the TRANSFORMATION takes place from STATIC to real usable current for discharge across the battery. The switching takes place and the capacitor discharges across the storage battery, but only to the level of the storage battery, so the level of the MAGNETO must be 5 times the battery voltage , the capacitor is now at the level of the storage battery and the process starts all over. Now you have KRON'S open and closed path system with no interacting grounds. If the battery is in good shape the impedance is around .0023 Ohms. If this is done fast enough and correct you will get a constant high current flowing to the battery, what the motor is using for power is not worth talking about. The system here can be done many ways this is just one."

I realise now why I got problems. The battery that I am using is a old bad car battery that can charge up but doesn`t keep charge. I think it is a calsium and not a lead acid. So that will be replaced with a brand new 12Ah lead acid battery.
The original coils I used had lots of turns and did produce about 60 votls, but was replaced with the four 250 turns coils. I think I will add 4 more of them and try to run them in parralel resonance to try and get 5x the battery voltage(60- 70v)
I also removed the wiper motor and replaced it with a dc motor from a old printer (40v) and plan to supply it with 24v to get about 200hz from my 8 magnets. 1500RPM. The motor draws only 350mA from 12v when the flywheel has reached full speed. The motor has some sort of a spring clutch so that in a clockwise direction , the flywheel freewheel and the motor will produce NO back EMF and NO DRAG .
I am still looking for more solderwire spools to turn more coils. Not easy to find !. Tried the solder supply company today but they don`t want to supply it because there name is printed on it. Will try some plastic companies tomorow
Any ideas or any other suggestions on this generator would be appreciated.
So long

Mark
05-06-2009, 07:50 PM
If your looking for the short style spools you might try looking for them at a craft of fabric store. Ribbons and other craft material come on short plastic spool. I got a craft store to give a few. Good luck sounds like your getting close. :cheers:

tjnlsn255
05-06-2009, 07:55 PM
I just bought a few rolls of solder from the hardware store and put them on one larger spool so that I could use the 4 smaller ones....just a thought....

Be happy...

Tj

baroutologos
05-07-2009, 07:36 AM
@ Nvisser

Could you supply some inspiring pictures regarding the FEG replication of yours?

Regards,
Baroutologos

nvisser
05-07-2009, 07:07 PM
The motor is a 40v motor from an old printer
The flywheel was made out of 30mm thick superwood. Circ. 300mm with two flatbar rings welded around it. I balanced it with screws
The energizer is also two 200mm superwood rings with 8 magnets mounted on it
I used hardrive magnets. Neo`s I think. They are a bit weird but after cutting them in half with a thin angle grinder blade I had a north and south pole on different sides.
The coils are 4 layers of 20awg wire wound on solder spools at this stage but will change. They measure 8mH and measure 2 ohm each. I think the low resistance is a must for parallel resonance. My first coils had lots of turns and measured between 14 and 29 ohms and produced about 15v ac without a resonance cap, but at that stage I used a wiper motor that drew more current . I then discovered Bedini`s 1984 book and rewired them all!
Most of the stuff did not cost me any money. A few bucks for the bearings and labour for a carpenter to cut the super wood. He did not drill the holes straight so my energizers wheel has got a bit of a buckle which causes a problem between the magnets and the cores.
The 12mm shaft also comes from an ancient printer. The wire I got from degauss coils of old crt monitors as I am doing monitor and printer repairs for a living
The photos are not very inspiring, but that`s what I got so far

nvisser
05-12-2009, 05:35 PM
I found a pdf file last night that explains lots of the things I saw on the net before. Probably the most informative document on zero point energy so far.
Have a look at the centre of page 11 underneath fig 10. The diode plug circuit for parallel resonance!

baroutologos
05-13-2009, 06:43 AM
I have read it nvisser.

To be honest, it makes little sense to me. IMO its about theorizing and few actual hints given.

I am proceeding to my experimental FEG as planned. I really want to have something tangible to pester with :D

Anyway, rotos are being machined. Next week i will have update on it.

So much work to do...

Regards,
Baroutologos

nvisser
05-13-2009, 06:12 PM
A BETTER DESCRIPTION OF THE DIODE PLUG CIRCUIT
http://freenrg.info/RV/Texts/HV_Resonance_collection.pdf

baroutologos
05-16-2009, 07:49 PM
One thing i have realized from the patents designs and info given on the books regarding free-energy machines.

They are concepts. They depict conceptually the machine. I do not believe if one blindly replicates the patent will come with an working machine.

Example? Plenty. See Kromrey generator, when Bedini tried to replicated it - no success. He modified it, and worked!

I ask how many of you achieved overunity by replicating Bedini patent without and modification? Not many i could say...

Regarding the Free Energy Generator. I have read the book many times. It gives a model of 6 magnets facing 6 coils all in phase.
Look at the only picture of Watson machine. It can clearly be seen that, the 6 coils of it ARE NOT in phase. :confused:

Actually they must be 6 coils and 7 magnets so the cogging drag to be minimized. So? No more in phase. That means, if not every coil had a cap (that did not, the machine had 2 caps) no more resonance between cap and coil.

Better scratch our heads and apply the concepts rather blindly follow the instructions given.

Regards,
Baroutologos

nvisser
05-16-2009, 08:06 PM
I had some time today to add another 4 layers of wire to one of my coils.
The resistance is now 4ohms and it measures 28mH.
I connected the motor straight to the battery to test the coil’s output.
With the 8 magnets, the frequency at full speed measured 126Hz
I only used the one coil. The ac output was only between 3 and 4 V ac.
I calculated the parallel resonance capacitor as 56uF and used a 47uF.
C= (0.159/126Hz)^2/28mH
After connecting the 47uf capacitor in parallel with the coil, I got a beautiful sine wave on the scope that measured 18- 20V ac on the multimeter! :D
It could be a bit more with careful capacitance adjustment. I still have to put together an adjustable capacitor bank.
That means with all 4 coils I should get 80v ac if the speed does not drop too much because of drag.
I will keep you updated

nvisser
05-16-2009, 08:14 PM
(Actually they must be 6 coils and 7 magnets so the cogging drag to be minimized. )

Hi Baroutologos
Can you try and explain above statement to me.
Never heard about it before and I could do with less drag!
Regards
Vissie

baroutologos
05-16-2009, 09:07 PM
@Nvisser

Hi, have you ever see the watson machine photo?
I suppose, yes. Did you noticed that the coils are not matching the magnets?
If not, you surely will do now.

Why is that? When a rotor is build with powerful magnets, it is arranged that way so the stator cores (coil cores) are not matching all at once them (that's the reason for using odd number magnets even number coils and vice versa).

Why? Suppose they are neomagnets. Suppose each magnet faces a coil. Then try to separate them. Difficult if not impossible. Then, when set in motion, every time the rotor will come to allignment (all cores with magnets) will produce enormous stress on the axis and bearings thus making vibrations and other unwanted symptoms to show up. None want this to happen.

Bottom line, the odd - even numbers configuration between stator-rotor help to smooth the rotation as much as possible.


.......................
regarding your setup.

How much rpm you enjoy?
A hubble advice of mine. Try making an LC circuit using only ONE COIL. How? Increase the coils impedance and consequently capacitance by making it some 29awg @ 60 ohm! DO not be afraid of resistance. The voltage becomes high enough and current small enough so resistance is not an big issue there.
Watch and reports results :P

.......................
IMO, in FEG the extra energy (if it works) comes from the magnets and not from the resonance. In modern electronics applications they are muriads resonant circuits, yet none of them shows any OU. ( I may be wrong, even i do not think so) We here regard the magnets as energy sources and perhaps we are right. An inductor and capacitor are inactive objects.

My understanding so far is that FEG bends the Lenz Law.


Regards,
Baroutologos

Michelinho
05-17-2009, 02:24 PM
Hi nvisser,

The ratio of coil to magnet in a windmill axial flux alternator is always 3 coils for 4 magnets to help lower the drag caused by the eddy currents as they use air core coils. If you add a ferrous core, the problem compounds.

The same principle is easy to apply to any electricity producing apparatus using magnets and coils. So it is logical to assume that Bedini/Watson machine works with the same basic layout. The Letters of Patents might not say so, although I have not checked, but Letters of Patents never tell the whole story but it is often covered in a disguised way as to protect the inventor. Check Hugg Pigot Hugh Piggott - Scoraig Wind Electric (http://www.scoraigwind.com/) or Otherpower Experiment site (http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_experiments.html) for windmill magnet to coil setup.

Take care,

Michel

nvisser
05-17-2009, 03:59 PM
Thank you for the explanation lads
Can anybody explain how it is possible to generate any voltage from a magnet on an air core? I tried it on my solder roll coils. Even on one with many turns and a resistance of about 800 ohms, I could not get much voltage without cores. Maybe when using pancake coils I believe it can be possible

Michelinho
05-17-2009, 05:37 PM
Thank you for the explanation lads
Can anybody explain how it is possible to generate any voltage from a magnet on an air core? I tried it on my solder roll coils. Even on one with many turns and a resistance of about 800 ohms, I could not get much voltage without cores. Maybe when using pancake coils I believe it can be possible

Since there is no high permeability core in an air core to distribute the magnetic flux through the whole coil in your test, only a small potential will be obtain because the magnetic flux only reach partly through your coil. The air core when used with only one set of magnet (one rotor) the coil must be as flat as the reach of the magnetic flux. If 2 opposing rotors are used as in a windmill dual rotor setup, the coil can be thicker but not exceeding certain parameters that are the strength of the magnetic flux and its ability to spread from one rotor magnet to its opposing one without bleeding back to itself.

I hope this answers your questions.

Take care,

Michel

nvisser
05-17-2009, 07:42 PM
Hi
I can only find one photo of the Watson gen. That is the 2 combined photos with the smaller generator on top. On the top one I see 8 coils and magnets lined up. On the 12Kw generator I can see 8 very tall coils . I cannot determine how many magnets there are. It does not look like they line up so I suppose you are correct.
From the photo it looks like the magnets are further apart then the coils
With 8 coils and 7 magnets I suppose you space coils 45 degrees and the magnets 51.4 degrees.
That will surely form a funny waveform?
We have to remember the bedini`s book was written before Watson built his machine.
If you look at FIG 10, ON PAGE 10 OF THE OLD 1984 BEDINI FREE ENERGY GENERATOR BOOK You will see that bedini preferred parallel resonance.
In my first test runs when it did not work in OU I used lots of turns on each coil. In fact I filled it up. It measured about 24 ohms each. The voltage generated was well above 60v
When I look at Watson`s coils it looks like he could have used single layer coils. Very long ones though.
I had a quick look at the Otherpower Experiment site. At the wooden altenator. It reaches 12 volts for charging at 120 rpm, with 6 amps charging current at 300 rpm
With that kind of current it will be easy to recharge the battery while it is driving my motor constantly at say 1 amp. It all depends on the drag that such a generator will put on the motor. It sounds to good to be true!
With my 4 coils my motor draws about 400mA and runs at about 800 Rpm
It looks like I have to study this website for a bit

baroutologos
05-18-2009, 08:58 AM
Hello Nvisser,

My setup progresses also. I had my rotors machined, magnets attached and bearings fit. I did work quite a lot the past weekend.

I plan at making the motor part SSG driven, but now i have serious doubts since the neos on the generator size are really overpowered. :confused:
Anyway, i proceed, by attaching 2 at first (and 3 later) SSG coils out of phased with indepedent trigger circuits as Shephiroth suggests for some torque at least.

............................

Regarding the FEG book.
I have the firm belief that if You follow the books instructions you will fail miserably. I do not expect any patent and any book to spoon feed you about an overunity decive. That's imposible.

See around, have experimentation, observe, conceive the essence of how things work and go with your gut in making designs. That does not means you have to deviate a lot from original plans, but what i am saying is just keep an open mind and do not be confined by them.

Bedini himself, mentions cleverly in his book, that do not have to worry if it does not work at first. Play with it and finally it will work! That the man says.

And this way i plan to proceed.


Regards,
Baroutologos

wrtner
05-18-2009, 02:04 PM
There is a glorious simplicity to these designs which go back to the mid eighties:
BEDINI'S FREE ENERGY GENERATOR (http://www.icehouse.net/john1/foreward.html)

nvisser
05-18-2009, 07:48 PM
"Resonance is the key to overunity"
see page 18 on the following pdf
http://www.byronwine.com/files/plans.pdf
I am going to try the principles in this document to get this generator going.
Also keep the following in mind when charching a battery this way. See page 20, cold fusion in the same document

nvisser
05-19-2009, 07:35 PM
For those who may be interested. This is the way I plan to tap the resonance from my generator coils. The coils will replace the 3 phase motor in the diagram. They use the diode plug circuit . Mostly used in the rotoverter circuits . See:

Rotoverter: RV Resonance Recovery Test Circuit - Half Diode Plug Across Run Cap | MERLib.org (http://merlib.org/node/5909)

right click on the diagram and "save picture as" to fit it onto your screen.
There is also a text file that explains it

redeagle
05-20-2009, 02:26 AM
It looks to me that the g-field prototype had a shaft mounted coil with the flux path going through the axle which means that the magnets facing opposite each other were stacked the same way. and it would work kinds of like the notch gate motor: the opposing magnetic fields would crash in the middle and curve upwards/downwards the opposing magnetic fields should create a repulsion effect straight across and the attraction of the lentz drag should be over come.

Just my two cents, but let me know if yall have found otherwise about that generator.

nvisser
05-20-2009, 07:57 AM
By saying:"that the magnets facing opposite each other were stacked the same way." do you mean that the same poles, say north are facing the coil on each side?

baroutologos
05-20-2009, 09:59 AM
Currently i have little time to get experimenting and some idle time at work for reading and theorizing. :D

Let the wild theorizing begin!

The days before, i was reading about the muller alternator (generator) Its similarity to bedini Feg is stunning.

IMO folks from my study so far, its almost beyond doubt to me that Bedini's FEG, Muller Alternator, Thane's Perepiteia, Adams motor-generator are all working on the very same principle. The things that are changing are rotor dimensions, magnet orientation, coil specifications, and the motor part selection.

Or to put another way, like comparing 2 stroke internal combustion engines with 4 strokes or gas to diesel powered. Although different setups, all working on the same principles. So we must wonder what elude to most of us in order to attain OU consistently.

Regards,
Baroutologos

redeagle
05-20-2009, 01:24 PM
Yes both stacks of magnets are north to the same end. we know from Bedini's website that he experimented with both bucking fields and flux gates. this would seemingly work.

dambit
05-20-2009, 01:48 PM
Yes both stacks of magnets are north to the same end. we know from Bedini's website that he experimented with both bucking fields and flux gates. this would seemingly work.

Hi Redeagle,

The coil is not mounted on the shaft in the way you depicted. It is actualy 4 seperate coils connected in series. In the EFTV10 dvd Bedini explains how it's all setup. I have attached a drawing worthy of the louvre below. :rofl:

Bedini states that the coils share common cores (2 coils per core) and that if you want to improve the performance of the device, the coils should be wound trifilar and paralleled. ie, each coils three strands are in parallel and then the four coils are connected in series. The output then goes to a full bridge rectifier and then on to wherever you need it to go.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Steve.

redeagle
05-20-2009, 10:55 PM
Thanks Steve! I blame in on low res pics on the net. Can't distinguish the copper color on the shaft from a coil or something else I haven't seen the dvd yet. Can't get anyone to split it with me and don't really wanna pay 30 bucks. I'm sure i'll break down and buy it one day. so what about the magnets then. Does Bedini explain why he only uses the four stacks rather than 6 so that the flux will consistantly alternate nsnsns?

dambit
05-21-2009, 04:05 AM
Thanks Steve! I blame in on low res pics on the net. Can't distinguish the copper color on the shaft from a coil or something else I haven't seen the dvd yet. Can't get anyone to split it with me and don't really wanna pay 30 bucks. I'm sure i'll break down and buy it one day. so what about the magnets then. Does Bedini explain why he only uses the four stacks rather than 6 so that the flux will consistantly alternate nsnsns?

Hi Red

The copper on the shaft is the sliprings that the brushes contact. As far as the magnets go, he doesn't explain why he has them in that setup. He does say that with the two pairs he gets double the output, but as you mentioned three pairs would seem better. I did notice the drill holes on the two endplates (top and bottom) are drilled in a hexagonal pattern, suggesting that he could set the magnets up that way if he wanted to. The device I am building will have three magnet pairs so I guess I'll find out what the difference is sooner or later.

Cheers,

Steve

baroutologos
05-22-2009, 02:04 PM
I was reading some time ago, what Mr Bedini has said in the SSG yahoo group regarding magneto motors.

"Just thought I would give you some hints about this device.
It has been around for a long time and it is a real device.
Twisted wires do nothing, listen to the video again, you will here
the words coil 1000uf cap small leakage this is all crap to through
you off. the important part is reed switch. look at this like
your "Lawnmower engine mag", take the spark away. see the cap across
the coil keeps the reed from arcing excess bleed off through the 100
k ohm resistor to the 1000uf cap you can figure the rest out if you
try. Think out of the box for once, is a very simple device no power
generated, no voodoo scalar here. It is so simple it is killing you.
Their are much bigger units in Europe and in the USA.
Both magnets north poles. Twisted wires, Eye candy for the ignorant,
Watch it and listen to it. no useable power to drive anything except
itself. I told you all before the magnet charges the iron then the
iron discharges ( what does the reed do?), not in the electronics
text books, but may be in the magneto hand book. the unit switches
after top dead center. it's driving you crazy, it was known in the
50's one pulse going positive no diode needed, figure out where the
reed is and you have it.
John''

He almost clearly states that the "magneto effect" that is the Lenz's Law violation to my eyes is achieved by initiating current in an alternator's coil just as magnet has passed over TDC, so as to assist rotation instead of impeding it. (i know this has been extensivelt discussed in another thread of this forum)

Again in another thread...

"Alex,
I did not mean to ignore you, You have asked where is the battery?
There is no battery in the system, just a hidden radio transmitter. The
real device is Adams the true inventor, and Adams had a big one,
Lockridge had the other.
The reed is under the coil and when the magnet is pulled into the iron
it shorts the coil out. When the magnet leaves the iron it opens
causing a discharge, reverse polarity and pushes the magnet away, very
tricky to make work. You can make this machine if you understand the
timing and capacitance, need the capacitor to protect the reed switch.
the resistor is just to bleed off extra energy, of no use. Just think
about it this way, magnet charges the iron under a short condition then
the magnet leaves reed opens coil discharges and pushes the magnet
away. LC circuit with the inductor and a small capacitor about 47 uf.
Timing is the important thing here. This really a very simple magneto
engine.
John

Bottom line, we are dealing with a delayed current in relation to magnet possitioning. How is it achieved? Bedini speaks of an ordinary coil switched on by a reed switc or after TDC.

Regards,
Baroutologos

redeagle
05-22-2009, 03:52 PM
He is using the magnet to energize the coil versus a battery. it does the same thing as long as the reed disconnects the short and reconnects to the charging cap before the magnetic field collapses if i'm not mistaken in this you get two pulses one when the coil shorts and the polarity switches to match the magnet and again when it reconnects to the charge battery and the coil field collapses and switches back to oppose the magnet.

Must be a short pulse either way and since it's reed switched that means higher speed. But this is a different beast from the gfield or flux gate generator all together because there is reduced lentz drag because the flux field is not there to allow it to drag. so you get a full magnetization as Ed leedskalnin demonstrated years ago and the perpetual motion holder was studying and a rapid coil collapse that cannot effect the driving force strictly because there is no path way to do it through.

Edit: explaination for second paragraph. I appologize for the mixed to statement. I was half asleep at the time and didn't reread what i was typing. All generators produce voltage between the magnets. So whether you are moving the magnetic field or inducing once from and em coil it makes no difference for power generation. What Bedini, adams and others have proven is that you get much more voltage from a system that the magnetic field either embodies a full flux path that is completely broken for a rapid demagnetization. or the same rapid demagnetization caused by the switching off of dc pulse. transformers prove that you don't even need to take the energy off of the primary power wire as long as you have a secondary pickup coil. Which also has the capability of stepping up the voltage of the output of low input systems. making commutated motors such as the Newman a realizable radiant system. Ignition coils are extremely fun to play with when you are experimenting with solid state systems. but it hurts like crap when you short the hv out through ur skin. But that's for another thread.

nvisser
05-23-2009, 07:34 PM
I lost you guys
Has it anything to do with the way Cody explains in his video in the Watson machine thread
YouTube - Radiant Energy From Generator Coil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRyKVU6YzYw)

redeagle
05-23-2009, 08:54 PM
I lost you guys
Has it anything to do with the way Cody explains in his video in the Watson machine thread
YouTube - Radiant Energy From Generator Coil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRyKVU6YzYw)

Right on man. that's exactly what the second quote from john that Baroutologos posted was referring to at the peak votage the coil is energized by the magnets if you short the coil it magnets in attraction of the magnet that is leaving the pole and just like the regular bedini system if you stop the current the field collapses releases that energy in the form of a high voltage radiant spike.

The "watson machine" or FEG uses a completed magnetic flux path to energize the coil then breaks the path by moving the coils and iron bars. I think that's why bedini tried to stress about these test machines just to fill up the spools tri filar and run with it. Because Why does it matter how you do it if you get the same effect. Like was said earlier it's resonance among the parts that make the system work.

Half a dozen in one hand six in the other.

darkwizard
05-27-2009, 07:50 PM
hallelujah!!!

:cheers:


finally understanding is coming!!!!

baroutologos
05-28-2009, 06:35 AM
Understanding could not come IMO if there is not any hands on experience on this device. Not to mention to replicate the effect.

@ Darkwizard, if you feel that you have somehing to add on the Watson machine, please feel free to.


Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
05-28-2009, 09:05 PM
Today, i understood why Mr Bedini utilizes a heavy flywheel in his FEG.

It has nothing to do with energy extraction from gravity or such as far as my observations conclude.

It has to do with motion smooting via vibrations elimination. We have discussed earlier that Bedini's FEG has all coils in phase. That means simultaneously all coils face magnets which result in moments of great rotor stress leading to inevitable vibrations, leading in turn to bearings stress, friction and noise.

Flywheel addition, is a clever move to eliminate those side effects.

Regards,
Baroutologos

nvisser
05-29-2009, 07:20 PM
The flywheel does smooth it all out. The faster the better

darkwizard
05-31-2009, 02:53 AM
:rofl:

Read the comments posted by Bedini, Read free energy generation book, a piece of cake:o

baroutologos
05-31-2009, 06:24 AM
i do not think its a piece of cake the successful setup of FEG.

I have the firm belief that the vast majority of FEG replicators had never attained OU.
Again i think, the 1984 handbook is not sufficient in making it right if instructions are followed blindly.

i ask.

Have you made it as claimed? i.e self runner? If so, will you get in the trouble of alluminate all the rest of us?

Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
06-01-2009, 07:18 AM
Hi @ all.

I know i talk more than i make, but resources are scarce whereas reading and ralking is cheap. :P By the way, my work in progress towards FEG-SSG motor projects can be encapsulated in those photos

Regards,
Baroutologos

nvisser
06-01-2009, 04:40 PM
Very nice!
I see 6 magnets. Are you not going to try 7 magnets with 6 coils like in the wind generators to reduce drag? Somebody mentioned it on this thread.
What is the wheels made of and do they also act as the flywheel?
They keep me so busy at work that I got no time. Even working the whole weekend. Busy installing the card readers at the staduims for the big soccer that is coming.
My new coils are finished . I need to build the diode plug circuit to test the concept and extract part of the resonance. If that does not work I think I have to go to the Tri filar coils and the read switch method.
Is this the way to make the coils? Found it somewhere and tested a coil like that. It does work like that.

elias
06-02-2009, 10:07 AM
Hi everyone,

I am in the process of building a Muller/Bedini/Adams/Watson Hybrid, and I am hoping to get good amount of energy out of it. My initial tests were not so bad, but I need to test with more coils and different configurations. I managed to charge a 10000uF cap upto 25 volts in 5 secs, which means around 0.6W of energy, the same setup charged a 220uF cap upto 300V in 15 seconds. My machine is using around 6W for its input and is spinning at 2000RPM. It didn't seem to put much drag on my motor yet but yet I am not so sure if I could add around 10 such coils and achieve self running. I need to experiment with different coils and different switching positions. I currently seem to be getting the maximum output when the magnet is leaving my coil.

I suppose that the energy output increases considerably as my RPM increases. I have to increase my RPMs upto 3000-4000 by using higher voltage on the input and adding one more coils to make it three.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Elias

baroutologos
06-02-2009, 11:40 AM
@ nVISSER,

I mentioned it the odd-even numbers of magnets stator coils. and yes i will try 5 coils for 6 magnets.
Note that the energizer part is composed of Nd 1'' double stacked magnets that have an very good (put it mildy) attractive force.

This way i can afford having my cores 1cm away from magnets with quite good results at electricity generation. (no solid data measured so far)

By the way, my whole project has stall in the SSG pulse motor section. Whereas the radial design with rectangular magnets is quite good at speed/torque etc the axial one seems defficient. Trying...


If proggress made,
I will post it here.

Regards,
Baroutologos

nvisser
06-02-2009, 04:49 PM
Hi Elias
The Muller/Bedini/Adams/Watson Hybrid surely sound very impressive and with all that techniques involved can only be a success.
I haven’t studied Adams or even read about Muller yet.
Please post some photos and explanations in how you are attracting the energy from the coils and what type of switching you use. If we know more about your setup we can try to give some suggestions.
Regards
Vissie

cody
06-03-2009, 03:57 AM
This is turning out to be an interesting thread, i hope some videos come up soon of everyones work. From playing with the generator coils a bit i have some things that yall might look into and play with. I noticed a relation between the coil output and drag on the motor from varying the capacitance. I didnt show that on my video, but i was shorting the coil through a capacitor to get my best results. However that was at low speeds, im sure no capacitor would be necessary at high rpms, however i think switch duration is going to be critical. I believe these coils have saturation points just like regular motor coils, so there should be a specific shorting switch duration or frequency which will give you max output with least drag. It may work good with a 555 circuit to chop the pulse up. If you have been following jetijs's work you know what im talking about. When i get some time ill get back to work on my latest motor to help contribute here. Keep up the great work everyone!:)

nvisser
06-05-2009, 07:12 PM
Hi Cody
I would like to know what you think the best method is to extract the energy from this type of generator? Resonance with the diode plug method like in the trans/roto- verter method that we all know works or by using the method that you suggest in your video. It seems like nobody knows or do not want to tell as soon as they know
Vissie:confused:

cody
06-06-2009, 02:51 AM
hi nvisser,
I think your right, most dont know and the ones that do arnt saying. Personally, when i get back to work on it, im going to start by trying to figure out how to hook up my o-scope to my generator coils to view the current waveform. More info on that can be found in peters electric motor secrets thread. So by doing this you should be able to view the current rising in the coil when it is shorted. If the waveform plateaus then you will know that the switch duration is to long and the core cant saturate any further and you are wasting energy and putting unnecessary drag on the drive motor. I believe your right about resonance, but to understand how to get to that resonant frequency you will probably have to understand about the cores saturation point and how to set up the switch to not oversaturate. With that said, my best suggestion would be to just get in there and play with the thing and do whatever you feel like to get a feel for it. Good luck :)

nvisser
06-06-2009, 08:31 AM
Thanks Cody
I will look into peters electric motor secrets. A lot of pages to read!
Is there any pages of importance that you know of that describes this current waveform measurement that you are talking about?
Vissie

baroutologos
06-06-2009, 07:44 PM
Hello all,

I put together my SSG-FEG combo and test it. I must admit its a failure..

With 40 volts and 3 axial coils max out 1100 rpm only with the finest lubrication.
I intended at achieving some 3000 rmp. Not such luck tho :(
For others to know, axial SSG is MUCH more defficient than radial in terms of speed/torque. Anyway, ssg does not fit the purpose as originally thought.

I am dissapointed.
Nevertheless, i will pursue the FEG cause with pulsed permanent magnet motor or rotorverter.

Can anyone suggests a source for high torque permanent magnet motors for FEg?
Or rotoverter. Have anyone experience from such units?


Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
06-09-2009, 11:53 AM
@ nVISSER

I have put myself together and made some experiments in my Perepiteia-FEG setup. The results can be viewed at Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7530.msg185201#msg185201)

Sorry for that :P ( posting to a rival forum)

@ The fellow FEG pursuers.

I do not think FEG has something unsual in contrast to Adam's motor or Mueller alternators or Hein's regenarative accelaration geny.

You can view my findings from initial experiments there and under a different light from Bedini's more or less mystical explainations to try to understand what is happening to thoses genys.

regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
06-10-2009, 11:04 AM
Does anyone knows where i can find a high torque permanent magnet motor (150+ watt) that has the ability to free wheel when not turned on?

Regards,
Baroutologos

Mark
06-10-2009, 12:18 PM
You mean like an automotive starter, blower motor or cooling fan motor?

baroutologos
06-10-2009, 12:41 PM
@ Mark

As you already know, i try to replicate FEG. For this reason i look for a permanent type motor that is efficient enough and freewheels when unpowered.

I know that many Dc motors when unpowered, they oppose rotation. I do not want that.
Are automotive starters efficient motors? Are they freewheeling?
What do you suggets.

Regards,
Baroutologos

tjnlsn255
06-10-2009, 12:44 PM
Maybe an electric scooter motor?

I bet they are freewheeling....

Tj

Mark
06-10-2009, 01:43 PM
Baroutologos

I'm not sure how much torque you need but a heater blower motor and a cooling fan motor both free wheel. When you look at the picture of the FEG that Bedini built at this web sight 20* Bedini (http://www.icehouse.net/john34/bedinibearden.html) the drive motor is a blower motor. Scroll down about 2/3 of the way down and you will see a split picture of Bedini'd and Watson machines.

Mark

baroutologos
06-11-2009, 07:31 AM
I need to procure, some I laminations with the following characteristics.
High magnetic flux permeatability & low eddie-hysteresis losses.

Anyone knows any shop on line?

Regards,
Baroutologos

ps: Thanks tj for the electric scooter info :)

wrtner
06-11-2009, 03:50 PM
[QUOTE=baroutologos;56831]I need to procure, some I laminations with the following characteristics.
High magnetic flux permeatability & low eddie-hysteresis losses.

QUOTE]
What about dismantling an existing transformer? Will that material suit you?

Microwave ovens are being regularly thrown out with the rubbish, and abound in recycling centres. They have a mean 8:1 mains transformer.
Paul_R

baroutologos
06-12-2009, 09:45 AM
I have dismantled an existing transformer and make experiments on my device.
But i plan at using around my rotor some 10-15 coils, so i am gonna need too many laminations that will be uniform in dimensions.

Any shop that sells will be great. By the way i need laminations and bobins that fit those. :s too many materials...

Regards,
Baroutologos

elias
06-13-2009, 10:49 AM
Hello all,

I put together my SSG-FEG combo and test it. I must admit its a failure..

With 40 volts and 3 axial coils max out 1100 rpm only with the finest lubrication.
I intended at achieving some 3000 rmp. Not such luck tho :(
For others to know, axial SSG is MUCH more defficient than radial in terms of speed/torque. Anyway, ssg does not fit the purpose as originally thought.

I am dissapointed.
Nevertheless, i will pursue the FEG cause with pulsed permanent magnet motor or rotorverter.

Can anyone suggests a source for high torque permanent magnet motors for FEg?
Or rotoverter. Have anyone experience from such units?


Regards,
Baroutologos

I am not sure why your results are like this, I wonder how is your magnet spacings. In order to get higher RPM you'd better increase your magnet spacings. My Machine has three coils with four magnets making it a Bedini/Muller Hybrid and I am planning to extract energy by adding more coils to it. It currently operates at around 1500 RPM with 20V,650mA. I have been able to extract about 0.6W with minimal drag, by using one coil, I am experimenting with different configurations. For now I have connected the Bedini charger output to a 40W lamp, with a capacitor across it.

I have hopes to make this machine go above unity. It currently recovers almost half of the supplied energy to the lamp around 6W. My machine is using 6W, therefore by being able to add around 10 such coils it will operate at unity, I am now trying to figure out if I can increase the energy output, by using different configurations.

I wonder what kind of geometry of the coil would produce the most output.

Elias

Elias

nvisser
06-15-2009, 01:56 PM
Hi Elias
Please post some photos. It sounds as if you got a nice machine there. Something that I struggle with as I do not have all that mechanical skills.
Why dont you try Cody`s suggestion to get more voltage out of your coil.
There is a post about it a bit earlier in this thread(video). They short the coil as the sine wave reach its max voltage ie: when the magnet is alligned with your coil , I think! and it results in a huge voltage spike simillar to the bemf spike when you drive the coil with a pulse instead of a magnet
I want to try it but just doesn`t get time to do it.

elias
06-16-2009, 11:13 AM
Hi Elias
Please post some photos. It sounds as if you got a nice machine there. Something that I struggle with as I do not have all that mechanical skills.
Why dont you try Cody`s suggestion to get more voltage out of your coil.
There is a post about it a bit earlier in this thread(video). They short the coil as the sine wave reach its max voltage ie: when the magnet is alligned with your coil , I think! and it results in a huge voltage spike simillar to the bemf spike when you drive the coil with a pulse instead of a magnet
I want to try it but just doesn`t get time to do it.

Thanks nvisser

I would post some photos as soon as possible, BTW I think that the high voltage is resulted when the magnet is leaving the coil. thanks for the nice comments. I am currently working on it on some days, and will try some different configurations if possible, it is a whole mess here in Iran, so I'll post it as soon as I get home: Iran's Disputed Election - The Big Picture - Boston.com (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/06/irans_disputed_election.html)

There are some strong evidence of rigging the election and people are protesting against the government.
Plz pray ...

Elias

nvisser
06-16-2009, 03:50 PM
[QUOTE=baroutologos;56426]
Can anyone suggest a source for high torque permanent magnet motors for FEG?
Hi
I remembered last night about this video I saw. I also download the pdf awhile ago from a torrent.
The fuel less motor!! See:

YouTube - The Fuelless Engine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frh-chOotis)

They turn the coils with thin wire (27 awg), lots of turns. I made a coil like that and it measured about 660 ohms using the thin wire from east, west correction coils on crt monitors. I do plan to build a motor like that one day.
Anyway they use a battery and inverter to get a 110 or 220v ac voltage depending on your countries standards. It goes to a voltage trippler (diodes and capacitors) and the result is 1000v dc low current. That goes into 2 or more capacitor banks and these voltages are switched to the coils by normal brushes (commutators)
They recon that if you switch such a hi voltage into a coil like this it will expel a magnet to the roof. Apparently dangerous!
They also claim this motor to be high torque and it only draws low current.
They also claim to recharge the drive battery with the bemf like in Bedini`s ssg with a diode
I personally think there are great potential in this method. Only no time to explore

wrtner
06-16-2009, 09:34 PM
[QUOTE=baroutologos;56426]
Can anyone suggest a source for high torque permanent magnet motors for FEG?

I am not sure about applicability to the FEG, but an interesting
series of high torque magnet motors is the Lynch Etek range
made by the electric branch of Briggs & Stratton.

baroutologos
06-17-2009, 07:40 AM
Its time to post my results to thsi forum also as i did not the overunity.com

You must excuse my initial frustration since the damned motor failed to my expectations. But I have many things to learn from that, in low-medium rpm region. (1100)

So far my "FEG-PEREPEITEIA" combo is not about efficiency. Its about pointing out the pirnciple.

Thus not taking into consideration the input power, feeding the inefficient motor (SSG) as much as possible, i managed to achieved some 1200+ rpm.

THE TEST
..........................................

My coil specs: 55mm height, 13mm core stuffed with wire rods (33) insulated each other, wound smoothly (with a drill) with 0.3mm enameled wire @ 72 ohms.

Naturally any coil put in generator mode under load decellarates. (Lenz's law) This is not always the case.

I run it and above the 1100 rmp threshold yes there was accelaration on rotor when the coil shorted.
I repeat, I confirm accelaration, as many have claimed (Heins, Bedini, Muller etc). I do not own yet a tachymeter but its easy to see it by the increasing voltage produced due to rmp increase.

0.13 Amps (more or less) current was oscillated in that coil (AC) at 105+ volts


Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
06-17-2009, 07:44 AM
First Impressions
.................................................. ....................
Shorting means smoother action
.................................................. ...................

The particular High Volatge coil when shorted in the low rpm region (that's relative, for my case >900 rpm) showed a remarkable decelaration.
Between 900-1100 the shorted coil made no difference to rpm, whereas above 1100 it started slowly to accelarate. (not much though)

By the way, no matter what the rpm, (accelaration or deccelaration) when the coil remains unshorted infront the spinning rotor of neos there is signifficant vibration and noise in the whole structure. (8mm gap)

When shorted, (accelarating or deccelarating) the vibration and cogging action just vanishes! It goes as if it is "lubricated", in a smooth fashion. Interesting effect...

HV coil shorted accelarates, if loaded then deccelarates!
.................................................. ..................................

I reapetedly made the same experiment and observation. With two coils so far.
There is a peculiar property of the HV coil. When shorted and goes to accelaration mode, you can measure the current that oscillates in it. (mine had 0.13 Amps AC through it)
Notice i use the term "oscillating" current through it.

The bizzare thing is that, if you apply to the HV coil an signifficant load that restrain its oscillating current, (form 130 ma to 60 ma via an 1K ohm load) not only accelaration does vanishes, BUT, it start to act as a normal generator coil. (brake)

Notice that i did not reached those coclusions easily. But to my setup at least it more than obvious.

Bottom line, if I want to harvest any power from my HV coil, it must be done in such way as to impose as low as possible impedance to the oscillating current.

(Note the max outputted power that my HV coil can deliver in a 1kohm resistance and acts as a break is 3 watts, whereas if i connect it to charge a batt via a FWBR i can harvest almost 1watt with minimal if any deccelaration)

Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
06-17-2009, 07:48 AM
Experiments with a new HV coil
.................................................. ...............

I decided to go up in HV coil's turns so as to achieve accelaration from lower rpm. Oddly enough, in my setup it turned out that not to be the case.

I made a similar dimensions, same core, magnet gap etc HV coil wound with the same manner 0.3mm enameled wire at 113ohm this time.

I decided to mount it on the rotor next to the other working HV coil. (see previous posts for specs)

Findings
.................................................. ......
With this one even though of greater impedance and higher generating voltage (120 vAC vs 100 vAC) the accelaration effect failed to manifest in the >1100 region.

From rough estimations and assuming that it has a similar behaviour to the other one, it should go above 1500rpm to do the trick, (my estimation). I was surpised to see that.

First conclusions
.................................................. .....
The HV effect (accelaration effect) it seems to be an superficial one (as electricity production on a coil is) that happens on the surface of the iron that gets-magnetized/demagnetized constantly and NOT be totally dependent of the coil's impedance.

I now firmly believe (and i plan to prove it) that above a critical layer thickness over the iron core (that transfers the magnetic flux from magnet to windings) the surplus layers are just a burden (ohm resistance), contributing at "loading the HV coil and diminishing the effect.

On the other hand, for that critical layer height that there is an active magnetization/demagnetization action zone you must have an "sufficient" number of turns to easily initiate the event. The more, the easier.(more = lower rpm initiation, higher voltage generation,but lower oscillating current and vice versa)

You can now understand what i suggest by observations only.

But, i need you people to verify or invalidate my findings that so as all to be on the same side.

Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
06-17-2009, 07:52 AM
A verification of concept
.................................................. ..............

My working "HV" coil i modified it. On the circumference i added thick iron wire so as to make another iron "core".
On top of the wire i added some 3-4 ohms HC coil that is wound with 22AWG.

When rotor full speed (1100rpm) it outpus some 12vAC. When shorted no matter what rpm i obtain it slows down the system. Normal generator mode as expected.

Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
06-17-2009, 08:02 AM
The accelaration effect
.................................................. ...........

In order anyone to be able to produce energy in a generator without having to deal with Mr Lenz :) those are the key factors:

So, what i learnt so far is that in order to extract some energy out of the
HV coils you must combine:

* magnets number-frequency-topology, field strength, magnetic flux
The more magnets the better. If you go alternative polarity even better (but you gonna need x 2 since frequency goes in NS pairs).
If you made a closed magnetic path frequency (Kromrey) even better results.
The stronger the magnets the better. But saturation considerations arise. We do not wnat that.
And... freequency or speed. If magnets do not move you should expect nothing. Moving them fast is a key element to the process. It is debated whether the phainomenon is attributed to magnet speed or just frequency. Oppinions incline to frequency.

* core material (the lower the eddies and hysteresis losses the better - no aircore)
* reactance considerartions. We need higher possible impedance in lower resistance (impedance+resistance balance)
* Current from coils should go as much un-restrained as possible. You can not overload the coils. this will diminish the effect. I have not tried an diode plug to see, but higher impedance to them (could be dc resistance or just batteries to charge) meaning diminishing results.
or put in other words,

Restraining the oscillating currentt, not only nulls accelaration but i found HV coil impedes the system (slows rotor) as a normal generator coil should do.

Its a riddle, is not it?
Experiment with those factors

BTW, accelaration effect is hapening between a range of rpm rather than goin on indefinately.

Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
06-17-2009, 08:40 AM
How HV coil works in accellaration mode (Theory)
.................................................. .......................

The coil has a high relative impedance. When operate belowe threshold speed it acts per Lenz'law.
Above that, coil's impedance prevents current to flow (or flows little) till magnet TDC. At that point with voltage at *max value or near it the coil "discharges" as a capacitor does not current begin to flow.

Only this time, the current assists motion instead of impeding it.

* Its experimentally proven that at TDC there is voltage on coil. Some say some other say maximum. I say enough if not maximum.

This has been attributed
- to paracitic capacitance (i am not to that oppinion from observations so far)
- purely on impedance (hmmm)
- iron core's characteristics (iron charges-discharges etc) and so on

Actually is has been observed that voltage peak is a moving thing. It "slips" with rotor speed at given configuration. Those with some experience on adam's motor with triggering mechanism will underastand.
In low rpm it tends to be at before TDC and tdc is null whereas at high rpm it goes towards TDC.

It has been proposed also the accellaration effect is due to reasonance (i am not that oppinion) since it operates in a window of rpm.
Lastly parallel wound series connected coils that boost paracitic capacitance is said to increase the phainomenon. I had some experiments and found not to be the case, but again mine experiments [are totally inconclusive.

HV coils with parallel wound, parallel connected wires have some spectacular attributes in load handling. (verified but inconclusive results)

Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
06-17-2009, 09:10 AM
Series wound coil
.................................................. ...

I wound a bifillar ala Tesla style coil with two wires (not twisted) at 38 ohms each (some 150m). This way the paracitic capacitance is orders of magnitude than sigle wire wound coil (voltage depending).

Series connected
........................
By series connecting the two parallel coils in the 1100 rpm region i did not managed to achieve any accelaration. (decellaration little though)

This series connected coils output 110 Vac and 0,15 A was the shorted oscillating current. I had to redo the experiment in higher frequency (3000rpm)

Interesting effects of biffilar coil in PARALLEL mode
.................................................. .........................

By the way there are amazing results of the bifilar setup that not sigle wire wound coils have.
When i parallel connected the two coils i had a 55 VAC at 1100 rmp and some 0,3 A oscillating current.
Neither this way i achieved any accelaration, but...
With great astonishement i found out the fact that when you pose a load to coil, it can handle it way better than a single wound wire coil of same size or output in terms of Lenz's law decellaration.

Shorting it
.................................................. ......................

Even though in the decellaration mode, when i shorted it it decellarates the rotor just a bit (from 1100 to 1000 rmp)
If you just short only the one parallel coil, great decellaration kicks in and brings the rotor to full stop.

I remember from my previous experiments that if i shorted a coil not in the accelaration mode, then it initially would slow down a bit, but as the rotor it would slow down, the decellaration becomes faster and faster till to dead stop.

Bifillar coil from my initial experiments has way better way of handling lenz law. (even though does not accelarates)

Loading it
.................................................. ......................

I reapetedly have said that if you apply a load to a accellarating or just barely decellarating coil, then decellaration kicks in in a hard mode (Lenz's Ghost :) ). The coils manifest their full accelaration effects when shorted and the oscillating current goes unimpeded or just near to it.

A serious resistive load that will half the shorted oscillating current (according my experiments) results in a brutal decellaration.
Till now all my loads were 12v lead acid batteries powered by the coils via a FWBR.

Even the coils that manifested accelaration, when employed in this configuration they would decellarete to a dead stop.
for example my first 75 ohms HV accelarating coil outputed 110vac and a current (shorted) 130 mA. When used the FWBR and a single battery to charge it was barely if at all accelarating. Thus giving 0,110 (drop) x 12,5 volts = some 1,3 watts energy stores losses include. If i arranged 2 x 12volt batteries in series then decellaration kicked in and rotor full stop.

But, in bifillar coil, the 12 volt battery was charged 0,250 A or some 2,5 watts (drop from 0,3 shorted) and rotor did not go below 1000 rpm, no matter what.

Bottom line, bifilar wire coils parallel connected have better load handling capability (thus maintaining accellaration effects) than single wound coils.

More experiments on this pending


Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
06-17-2009, 09:14 AM
From others with experience on this matter an usufull hint is:

* If one coil failed to achieved accelaration at a given rotor speed (+all other factors), by series connecting two or more of them (same specs, same phase) accelaration can start (see FEG, Kromrey etc) Oscillating current stays same, voltage doubles (for 2) etc

Now, you know what i know so far.
:thumbsup:

Regards,
Baroutologos

wrtner
06-18-2009, 01:56 PM
[QUOTE=nvisser;57290]
I am not sure about applicability to the FEG, but an interesting
series of high torque magnet motors is the Lynch Etek range
made by the electric branch of Briggs & Stratton.
I got this wrong. For high power permananent magnet motors:
L.M.C. Manufacturers of Permanent Magnet DC Motors - Lynch Motor Company Ltd (http://www.lemcoltd.com/)
Paul.

baroutologos
06-22-2009, 12:28 PM
Ok, after the SSG powered FEG fiasko :) i decide to move on.
To permanent magnet dc motor operated in a pulsed mode.

Has anyone any experience about permanent magnet motors operated in pulsed mode?? Are they free wheeling unpowered?

Do they sustain (almost) their rpm while being pulsed? Is pulsing them of any good for matching mechanical load to efficiency? (assuming pulse power and can be modulated)


Regards,
Baroutologos

nvisser
06-27-2009, 06:30 PM
At last today I had time to spend on my machine. 4 coils with about 400 turns in series with a lot of electrolytic caps in series to the value of about 10 uf.
I drive the motor with 2 x 12v batteries pulsed with a relay from a adjustable 555 timer circuit
When the motor are at max speed the output of the coils are about 12v ac. With the resonant caps in parallel the ac voltage are around 120v! Connected through a bridge rectifier to a 470uf 400v cap the dc voltage climb to 120v in about a second.
I switched that back to the battery with the same relay the way it is described .
To make a long story short, it still does not work!
I still plan to build a diode plug circuit to prevent the the killing of the resonance every time I switch but that will take some time
So I decided to try to short the coils on the peak of the sine wave (codies way)
It will take a while to construct Will report later .

baroutologos
06-27-2009, 07:01 PM
good work Nvisser!

Learn from mistakes and proceed. I had some experience with caps in parallel. It actually some boosted one coil's voltage by a factor of 4 and current about double, but created serious drag when doing this.

...The one who searches... finds

Regards,
Baroutologos

nvisser
06-28-2009, 09:15 AM
Yes it does create a lot of drag the moment it hits resonance
Does not really make sense because in theory when you supply a parallel resonant circuit (tank) it becomes high impedance at resonance and only draws a little current to keep it oscillating. That indeed does not work that way in a generator coil where a magnet is used
Now this finding is not what Peter Linderman states.
Quote:
In the Watson machine threat , Peter lindermann states:
"The pulsed alternator will give you a nice high voltage if the cap is adjusted for resonance at the operating speed (note the current meter in John's schematic). This will indeed reduce the lenz drag since less current is being drawn from the magnets. This is the most efficient way to extract energy from an alternator. This is commonly done on SSG setups to extract extra energy from the wheel using an extra generator coil, although a cap is generally not employed."

Very confusing!
Maybe I have to only insert the resonant cap (10uf) after the bridge and not use the big 470uf cap?

baroutologos
06-28-2009, 12:47 PM
Listening to anyone is not good at all.

By the way i do not think FEG works on resonance. If it did, we can supply energy from a frequency generator, create some resonance and extract energy out of it. I don't thinks its the case.

In conventional physics (and true to my view) resonance helps at storing energy in a system and give it all at once in a moment "amplified".
.................................................. .........

By the way, just in our case a cap after FWR bridge helps at storing and smoothing output.

Again Mr Vissie in case you want to experience accelaration under load you should follow Mr T's (OU forum) advices.

.................................................. ........

What kind of input consumption you have that way (pulsed in 24volt permanent magnet (?) motor) and rpm you hit?

Regards,
Baroutologos

nvisser
06-29-2009, 07:04 PM
It is a bit difficult to measure input current to the motor when pulsing so slowly.
With 24v supplied constant to the motor I measured about 1.6A and I think it was running @ 210Hz. With 8 magnets that gives you 1575rpm

baroutologos
07-02-2009, 10:15 AM
Hello Vissie,

I have my PMDC (scooter motor - as tjnlsn255 suggested ) received. I proceed to machining. The coupling of motor-shaft will be done via a small belt. I do not consider losses will be much this way.

Motor is a Unite MY1012 model, run at 24volts 200watts. I am planning to see how will run my rotor as well as i going to drive it in a pulse mode. Either with a 555timer circuit or just straight to an SSG circuit. we see..

A flywheel of at least 10kgr will be added to the shaft (cogging torque and pulsing smoothing). Rotor will be machined to fit another 6 magnets, of opposing polarity this time (total 12)

Coils are on their way. Silicon steel laminated, extra thin, low hysteresis, high saturations - high quality audio coils (instead of the pathetic iron wires core) in two shapes. One relatively short and one elongated.

I think next week i will be operational again :)

Regards,
Baroutologos

ps: By the way, i am not yet conviced IF this PMDC motor freewheels (unshorted). If not, it will be a waste of effort and money :(

baroutologos
07-03-2009, 07:25 AM
Ok, 5 minutes of experimentation with the PMDC motor....

The Unite M1012 PMDC motor (200 watts @ 24volts - 3000 rpm) when free wheeling it manifests a considerable slow down effect. I do not know if it is due to any internal short or just due to the cogging torque effect of that neos for the field.

Anyway, it runs some 0.8 amps at freewheel alone. Its torque is good enough for my application. it takes for free wheeling some 15 watts. (Bedini used only 12 watts for his operational FEG with 6 coils in phase!!! - ie maximum cogging torque)

Mr Lindemman is right here. The optimum FEG driver perhaps is an shunt wound series connected dc motor (starter motor) since freewheels happily.
Anyway, my motors specs state that is quite efficient when operating under some load (72% +) so i am not concerned much now about motor saving.

ALso i have in mind the pulsed mode. This way efficiency should increased a bit in the low torque region and BEMF utilization will help. Anyway good luck needed! :)

Regards,
Baroutologos

ps: coils arrived! tests and pics coming...
ps2: vissie keep going man

Shamus
07-06-2009, 12:59 AM
Yeah, I'm still here, been having to take care of lots of other stuff but the FEG is pretty much built although I may have to rethink the "magneto" section. Currently I have eight coils, each 300 turns in series wound on wooden cores. The magnets are very weak round ceramics, double stacked, but still very weak even so. Measuring the waveform with my microphone showed very weak pulses, but that could be due to the fact that I was spinning the wheel by hand. :)

At any rate, my motor section needs rework as well since the ceramics I'm using in a window motor configuration are not strong enough to run in a trigger coil configuration; I'm going to have to use Hall switching (and here I thought I was going in an easy direction. Ha! :)).

I will post more when there is more to post. :thumbsup:

BTW, I've only heard John talk about filling a spool in relation to the SG or SSG, never in relation to the FEG. As far as the other questions go, I'm pretty sure it's a fairly simple machine, it's just the timing of the switching between powering the motor and back-popping the main battery with voltage built up on the cap on the magneto section. Peter Lindemann wrote an excellent post on his understanding of how the machine works in the other thread ("Watson machine"); it's well worth doing some deep thinking on what he wrote about it. ;)

baroutologos
07-06-2009, 08:08 AM
Vissie,

too many people in here see themsleves as experts in the field and still they ignore very basic things that a first year electrical engeener student should know.
I as you, are not EE's so noob mistakes for us are allowed!!! :) But, as a saying goes, "Parachute and mind should be kept open". Bear in mind the Free energy production is a highly disputed area. So anyone with any views that are not accepted by mainstraim community can find sancturary here, being right or wrong (wrong most of times)

Listen what peoples say, epxeriment yourself, and draw some conclusions and move on. Learn from failures. Do not stick to dogmas. Inventors could be mistaken also in their views.Replicate their work. See yourself what is working and what does not.
Use common sense and avoid becoming too mystical.
If something cannot be explained simply then something is going wrong.

If am i allowed to give any piece of advice to fellow experimenters who spare their precious resources on creating something extraordinary, it will be those.

Regards,
Baroutolgos

baroutologos
07-31-2009, 06:34 AM
Nivisser,

Working on a similar setup to FEG, actually its a hybrid of FEG and Kromrey's converter, my little understanding has been expanded. :)

I have concluded that the FEG or similar devices could never work if a ferrous core is not employed. Air cored coils are ruled out. If you want to catch up with my findings, seek the OU forums in Perepiteia replications. Last 5 pages.
If questions persist, just ask me.

edit: The more i learn, the closer i come to Bedini standards :), in technical and construction terms. His explainations is of course another whole issue.

Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
08-04-2009, 07:53 AM
ok, here and back again! :P

Few words to catch up. Rotor 12 magnets, neodumium alternating polarity.
Prime mover unite 1016MY PMDC motor, belt driven.
Can achieve 1300-3000 rpm, depending input voltage.

Coils are elongated ones, finest quality low losses core, wound with 400 turns of 10-fillar 29G wire, @ 1ohm. The coils are in phase and series arranged (voltage added).
Coils output some 80 vac when magnetic flux is closed via improvised U core and 65 vac when in air. (open magnetic flux path) @ 2000 rpm

........................
So far i experience two distinct things.

1) Coils at short, in 1300 rpm + reduce motor input and cause it to speed up.
Current measured during short is between 1.4 (closed flux path) and (1.8 open flux path)


Trying to extract power
................................
While at dead short rotor speeds up and motor's input goes down, if i apply a FWBR and connected to a 12 volts battery, things are tend to become normal. Rotor starts to slows down and motor's input to build up.

It has been observed that by applying a small resistance/impedance to coils' output, this effectively kicks them out of the speed-up mode and works as a normal generator. In order to overcome this you can increase rpm to holod the balance.

Totally empirically, i found out, in order to maintain the speed-up mode and charge a 12volt battery, i need at least 200 volts ac produced by coils at open!!! This is huge voltage just to offset a small impedance.


Playing with Capacitors
....................................
So imagine you have a system that shorted gives 2.8-3.6 amps and at open 70-90 volts and still cannot charge a battery without cogging prime mover down.

After reading few thing about reasonance and rotoverters, i decide to employ capacitors in my system. Capacitors are connected directly to the two output leads of coils.
*** I must warn about the validity of my findings, since so far electrolytic caps have been employed in AC mode!!!

Puting a too large cap
.........................................

If i put a large cap, say 10,000uf, the system behaves as coils are shorted, and normal, rotor speeds-up, input down etc. Circulating current in the cap is the same as in directly short. Cap's voltage at terminals is barely there. Say 0.5 volts.

Putting a too small cap
..........................................

By putting a small cap, system behaves as open circuit. The circulating current in cap is virtually none, and voltage is same as voltage at open. (almost)

Somewhere, the fun begins
.........................................
For my current setup, (in non closed magnetic flux mode) when i go below 400 uf of cap, the circulating current starts to GROW! (from 3.6 to 4 or 4.5) and voltage to build-up at cap terminals.

This procedure requires extensive cap-tunning, a capacitor bank is a MUST, but since have not so far, i played around with what I have in hand.

By employing a cap of 260 uf value or there, i managed to achieved an 25 vac in cap's terminals and 4+ amps circulating in it.
The rotor was in a delicate ballance state that after that it starts to decelarates and input goes-up.

The scary thing
...........................................
I found out that if i employ a cap in that fine balance state, in a given RPM all fine, BUT in other RPM region it can behave a lot different. How much different??
Say voltage climbed in terminals some 90-100vac (higher that normal coils) and amps goes up to 7 or 8 or 9 amps!
BUT, it kicks in a DRAG as the rotor has ABS disk brake system!:rofl:
It slows down from say 1700rm to 0 it 2-3 secs. ;)

Definately not useful state there, but its weird...

Bottom line
..........................................

A passive generator coil's state can be remarkably affected by the employment of a capacitor. No to mention, since the cap charges and discharges, that means energy is actually harvest from coil, without to mess speed-up (accelaration) as bettery does.

So, i get back to Bedini's FEG setup, with more knowledge this time! It's quite possible that a "REASONANCE" state must be achieved and OU to be manifested. BUT, when i say reasonance, I mean not the electric reasonance we know in LC circuit, where impedance goes infinie. I use the term with its broader sense.

i.e. Reasonce in which state the maximum energy goes out with the minimum effort (best COP)

Bottom line
......................................
* You need a coil that under short speeds rotor up instead of slowing it down. (i.e passive generating coil)

* You need a single passive coil or passive coils set wired in that way so as to deal virtually, with 1 inductor.
I just cannot imagine to have employed 3 or more idenpedent coils, and tune them with different caps. - A nightmere indeed -

* A cap bank to adjust to certain rpm, the UF value so as rotor drag to be minimal if any and voltage x current at cap terminals to be maximum.

That's my findings so far,

Regards,
Baroutologos

nvisser
08-04-2009, 06:46 PM
Good work!
Where do you find all the time?

baroutologos
08-05-2009, 07:54 AM
I think a clarification of my concept under experimentation is that:
........................

The difference between a reasonant LC circuit as physics books say and this kind of resonance i am after is that:

" In normal electric resonance the cap is being charged by the current produced by the collapsing magnetic field of the coil - that stored energy during charge state - and in turn discharges into the coil. The procedure repeates until ohmic resistance dissipates all energy "

If in that circuit we take out the energy, by switching caps during midcourse (via a diode plug say) then the procedure abruptly stops.

....................

In my case, the current is oscillating anyway due to magnets stimulation, without the manifestation of Lenz's drag (very important). This i intend to extract if anything is to be extracted from there.

Further experiments
.....................

I made some more experiments yesterday. I put to the output leads (the two coils in series) a capacitor of 100uf (electrolytic) and in parallel a FWBR.
FWBR output goes to battery.

In total short the oscillating current is 1.60 amps (current setup) by applying in parallel the capacitor and the FWBR i managed to charge the battery with 0.5 Amps and still have minimum drag to rotor.
The other power was oscillating between coil and capacitor.

BUT, 0.5 amps of charge whereas 1.6 amps is the potential, seems quite low. I will forward with an improvised cap bank.
i was procured a whole range of motor start caps rated 0.5uf to 50uf.
I can make a combined value from 0.5-99.5 uf now.

My question: any experience with caps rated at 50-60Hz running them at 150-250 Hz ?

So for a couple of days to come, experimentation is ahead.

Regards,
Baroutologos

ps: This summer time, Vissie, while my girlfriend went to her mother and i am left alone :( , i have plenty of time to dedicate to para-scientific experimentation :)

nvisser
08-05-2009, 07:25 PM
They say that electrolitic capacitors are good for experimentation.
They use oil filled capacitors on the rotoverter circuits. I cannot even find them in this country
I found a 3uf 660v ac 60hz oil capacitor in some old equipment, but thats it!
It is quite bulky. made by general electric usa

baroutologos
08-05-2009, 09:30 PM
:)
just go to an electrotechnics shop and buy induction motor run caps.
I bought today 9 of them of different value and i combined them in a draft cap bank.
Needless to say, i accidentaly touched on cap lead at 80 volts and my whole right hand was numbed. :D (I must be careful)

Further findings
.........................
I made a draft cap bank of 0.5, 1,1,3.5,5,10,10,20,50 uf values. And started to investigate the cap effect. I find out they are TWO distinct "efficient operation zones" that does not pose too much burden on prime mover. (prime mover shorted withou cap application speeds up/input down like G-field machine reports)

The first ZOne - from zero Uf and going up.
.................................................. ..........

If you start with 0 uf (open end) voltage is max and current none, naturally.
If i apply an 0.5uf, voltage again is almost max and some mili-amps are virtually circulating. No change to prime mover status.

By going incrementaly up,current starts to flow and voltage to drop at capacitor terminals. (As i said to previous thread, at 1500 rpm my coils output 1.5 amps at short and (edit) 59 volts at open)

At marginal 14uf value voltage measure (in cap's leads) is 82vac and circulating current 1 amp. Prime mover is somehow loaded though.
Input rises from 2.95 amps (12v battery) to 3.65amps.

If i dare to go in higher Uf, then current incremental increases, voltage builds-up and prime mover cogs dows!


The second Zone
From large uf value (i.e. a virtual short to coil) and going down
.................................................. ...................................

By employing a large cap, oscillating current is max (1.5 amps) and voltage at cap's terminals not even there. (almost zero)
By decreasing cap value current starts to GROW and voltage also.
The upper efficient cap value for my setup is 90uf.

At there the burden of the prime mover is almost the same as the 14uf value BUT, oscillating current in cap is 2.6 amps and voltage at terminals 32 vac.

Bottom line
............................
They are two cap zones i can work with. One with high voltage low current and one high current low voltage at same input cost. See concept graphs for my situation.

Question
.....................
Can anyone calculate how much energy can be potentialy extracted from my system?

Current orientation
.........................

to try to build a diode-plug circuit and, at least try, to extract some energy??

Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
08-07-2009, 08:25 AM
I made some more playing around with current setup, just to consolidate the first observations.

Indeed, no surprises. The thing is very predictable. At 1500 rotor RPM,
* Coils alone 59 vac and shorted 1.6 amp oscillating. (59 * 1.6 = 94.4)
* Coils with 90uf value 36vac and 2.6 amps (36 * 2.6 = 93.6)
* Coils with 14uf value 82vac and 1 amp (82 * 1 = 82)

As you can see, totally empirically the same VA result more or less, with or without the employement of caps.
The thing with caps is that they temporarily store (each half cycle) the "current" and that either way (with or without them) will oscillate.

High Drag Area
........................

As far as the amplification of amps x volts in the "high drag area" concerns, i believe so far its about a resonance-cummulative effect that perhaps does not add any energy to system, rather stacks each cycle and keep voltage / amperage mounting.

Your views please.

Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
08-09-2009, 10:46 AM
Some more minor experimenting, for those involved and understand what i say here.

This time a diode (1n5408) was employed.

Findings:

Although coils voltage measured with my meter is 58 vac at 1500 rpm, the cap behind the diode levels at 71 vDC.
An interesting thing also is that the time the cap is connected voltage in cap is launched at 110 vDC and if kept connected to diode, it fall gradually down to 71 vdc.

Caps employed are induction motor run caps 1uf, 10uf and 50 uf. All same results.

Question:
In 58 v AC coil's output, is it normal caps to charge after diode at 71 Volt?
during first application of the cap, why voltage in cap after diode goes to 110 volt?

An notice peculiar thing.

If the coils are shorted via the diode, the whole machine, hums, cogs and slows down. If coils shorted without any diode, the machine perfoms like heaven. Quiet operation, draw input goes down, rpm go up etc.

Any knowledge about that?

Regards,
Baroutologos

nvisser
08-09-2009, 06:46 PM
Did you measure the dc voltage after the diode without the cap
If you use a full bridge the dc out will be squareroot of 2 x ac voltage
With one diode it will be less
I cannot explain the 110v
Your 2nd point are very interesting. I will try it myself

baroutologos
08-10-2009, 11:18 AM
Usualy the DC voltage after FWBR is generally lower (My DMM says) than voltage on the AC side. But difference is not so great.
e.g. 58 ac could be 55 dc or so after FWBR

The thing is cap with a diode charges at 71 V. (levels there) but instantly, the moment connected, (in a wide range of caps) voltage registered is 110 v and keep falling till 71 v.

Regards,
Baroutologos


ps: Due to holidays missing, experimentation will be suspended for 2 weeks.
ps2: dc after FWBR = sqrt(ac x 2) ? LOL?

nvisser
08-10-2009, 04:24 PM
dc after FWBR = (sqrt of 2) x ac voltage
(1.414 x ac voltage) if there is a cap behind the bridge

baroutologos
08-10-2009, 10:48 PM
My mistake Vissie.

I have not yet utilized a cap after FWBR, only a diode and gives 71v (steady) from an original 58 vac.

Without the employement of any cap, just measuring the FWBR dc legs with the meter, registers some same voltage if not less in absolut values.

Anyway, i am gonna re-check it as soon as i can.


Regards,
Baroutologos

nvisser
08-11-2009, 06:21 PM
Well I still think old school and that formulas cannot create free energy.
As I understand what Bedini does is to use high generated voltage only, no current to charge the batteries not with electron current but rather ions?
That surely sucks as somewhere they say that it is bad for batteries
I tried all his and Ron Coles circuits. It is very exiting to understand it and get it working but very depresing to see in the end that it does not realy create all this energy
Not sure why they tell you all this things and keep the real thing back.
Then you get this guys like the Dude etc. that got their own website to help mankind with Bedini`s circuits, but they still cannot realy tell you how to do it!
Cheers from pissed off Vissie

baroutologos
08-11-2009, 08:18 PM
I feel your frustration Vissie.

Sometimes i feel over-frustrated also. Why while this technology is so primitive and old, someone cannot really tells us how to do it exactly, rather than giving abstract clues and chinese wisdom?

No matter the techology used, radiant or just lenz'less action, amperage should be harvested at the very end. No amps - no power.

Let's just focus at extracting the amps out.

Regards,
Baroutologos

nvisser
08-13-2009, 01:05 PM
Here is an easy circuit to tap resonance (like the diode plug)

Tecstatic
08-13-2009, 02:30 PM
Here is an easy circuit to tap resonance (like the diode plug)

Hi nvisser

If you refer to Hectors diode plug, I'm not sure you are completely right.

The only switched circuit I know of, which does not reflect back to the source, is Hectors diode plug.

To my understanding the circuit you show, and the AV plug are clipping circuits just removing a bit of the energy not to detune, but I consider this not optimal. The diode plug can harvest up to 40% of the circulating energy without detuning the circuit ( according to Hector ).

Then there are the circuits with the load included in the resonant circuit, like Hectors light bulb with the rotoverter, and also Rosemary's circuit.

So far I consider the diode plug the best solution, unfortunately not suited for high frequency circuits like Dr. Stifflers devices.

If I'm wrong with this, please enlighten me.

I have not tried Hectors diode plug - yet.

This is why I will make my experimenters set, as I will support a range of Hectors experiments and also some motors. Obviously my thread dies in peace, and it is OK, as it will save me some time.

Maybe someone thinks this set is just ordinary thinking leading nowhere. The circuits is not special in itself, but added to the experiments the whole setup is not ordinary.

Good luck with your future experiments :)

Eric

nvisser
08-13-2009, 07:55 PM
Hi Eric
Thank you for your post
The circuit I posted also came from the same place where they dicussed the diode plug
I also have not tested any of these
This circuit as I see it clips all voltage above 100v. The diode plug looks to me like it use a neon that taps above about 70v . Hectors will tap at 28v by using a diac
As I understands it they just use a fet instead of a diode to tap with the big difference that a mosfet driver is used that generates risetimes of only 15nsec
and that means your fet will also swith on completely in 15nsec.
Acording to Bearden , bob boyce etc a very sharp rising edge are extremely important in this type of zpe experiments
I have already laid out pc boards for some of this circuits and hectors pc board is on the site. I must find time to build this things and test them for better undrstanding

nvisser
08-13-2009, 08:08 PM
Allow me to come back to a post from Baroutologos a while ago.
He posted some statements that Bedini made
I am trying my best to understand this statement that he posted of Bedini
I inserted full stops and separated and rearanged the sentences to try and understand what he was trying to tell but he still contradicts himself
Here follows:
"The important part is reed switch.
The reed is under the coil and when the magnet is pulled into the iron it shorts the coil out. When the magnet leaves the iron it opens causing a discharge, reverse polarity and pushes the magnet away,
Very tricky to make work
See the cap across the coil keeps the read from arcing
need the capacitor to protect the reed switch.
LC circuit with the inductor and a small capacitor about 47 uf.
The resistor is just to bleed off extra energy, of no use
Excess bleed off through the 100k ohm resistor to the 1000uf
you can figure the rest out if you try..
Just think about it this way,
magnet charges the iron under a short condition
then the magnet leaves
reed opens,
coil discharges and pushes the magnet away.
Timing is the important thing here. This really a very simple magneto
engine.
You can make this machine if you understand the
timing and capacitance"

To me it looks like the sinewave is shorted when it reach it`s peak, with the readswitch
There is the coil, a 47uf cap, a 100k resistor and the readswitch all in parallel.
The cap is to protect the readswitch that it does not arc and burn and the 100k discharge the 47uf again between pulses
He says the resistor is only for bleeding the extra energy, of no use and then he says the exess are bled off through the 100k ohm resistor to the 1000uf
Now where will this 1000uf be situated
Is there anybody that can share some light onto this statements
I realy think that this was maybe the method to get this machine to work
Then there is still the question as to what voltage are generated across the coil to feed to the big popper cap?
If he used only the rising edge of the sine wave a diode will not be needed and it could be connected straigt to the big cap
Maybe that is the 1000uf and the 100k resistor

nvisser
08-13-2009, 08:14 PM
Then again. Maybe this statements has nothing to do with this type of generator?

Tecstatic
08-13-2009, 09:29 PM
Hi Eric
Thank you for your post
The circuit I posted also came from the same place where they dicussed the diode plug
I also have not tested any of these
This circuit as I see it clips all voltage above 100v. The diode plug looks to me like it use a neon that taps above about 70v . Hectors will tap at 28v by using a diac
As I understands it they just use a fet instead of a diode to tap with the big difference that a mosfet driver is used that generates risetimes of only 15nsec
and that means your fet will also swith on completely in 15nsec.
Acording to Bearden , bob boyce etc a very sharp rising edge are extremely important in this type of zpe experiments
I have already laid out pc boards for some of this circuits and hectors pc board is on the site. I must find time to build this things and test them for better undrstanding

Do you have a link to where you found the diagram ?

What is important with Hectors diode plug is that it has two capacitors each charged by a diode. One diode is charged during one half cycle, while the other cap is isolated from the source because the diode blocks. So the charge can be taken without detuning the resonant source.

Of cause you can not harvest so much energy that the oscillation is killed.

If we say we have an oscillating LC circuit with 3uF, then you can use one 2uF cap directly coupled to the coil, and two 1uF capacitors each in series with a diode, then you can not kill the oscillation if the Q is sufficiently high.

I guess it will work better with just two caps and MOSFETs, which only discharges the cap partly using sharp edges and turning off before to much charge is taken.

As said the cap discharged is the cap currently isolated from the coil by its diode. And the 2 diodes are inverted, so they each serve its own polarity (half sine).

The clipping circuits harvest energy while connected to the coil, which has a detuning effect to the resonance.

Take a look at Hectors EASER circuit, IMHO that deserves to be replicated.
It has the double switch to charge a coil. This lowers current like in the window motor circuit, and then the capacitor resonantly charged by the coil is discharged while the coil is idle. If you use a transformer as the coil easily found from the scrap heap, you can maybe even get a ferro resonant effect too, improving performance.

Hector says the coil will cool down with the correct capacitors and timing.

Eric

nvisser
08-14-2009, 05:55 AM
Image:Zpe res collect circuit HV1.png - PESWiki (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:Zpe_res_collect_circuit_HV1.png)
and I think this one
Directory:Rotoverter - PESWiki (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Rotoverter#Power_Extraction_from_Resonance)

baroutologos
08-14-2009, 07:41 AM
Hello Guys,


I think Vissie that we deal with two distinct things there (?).

* The very fast shorting of a coil, when is "charged" or in other words in the peak of sine wave

* The normal apparent circulating energy extarction via Hector Perez's diode plug circuit.

Some poeple have combined the two approaches but yet cannot understand the benefits.

Diode Plug
..................
I think Hector Perez's circuit, if works as claimed, will be of enermous value.
In my setup i have an large circulating current with no Lenz action, yet cannot extract any substantial amount of energy.

Shorting a charged coil
...............................

I have contacted EVGARY yahoo group. Koneheadx, has been mundanely repeated to me that if i short a coil, right at the peak of sine wave for very little time (just a portion of the tip of sinewave) then caps could be charged at x20 without any additional load. (that what he said!)

A bastardized circuit for determing, WHEN to switch at peak, is given below.
It uses a potensiometer-like arrangement, a neon bulb, and some opto/scr conductors. (prerequisite is coil peak to be at least neon-bulb rated voltage)

MAgnet Top Dead Center and Top sinewave
.................................................. ...........
Some people argue that the shorting of a coil in peak sine wave can be done by having magnets on the rotor for timing. I think its plain wrong. As Bedini said its tricky to do that.
Top of sine wave is not at various rotor speed the same. (specially at magnet TDC as we look it when rotor is stoped)
Magnetic distortion effects are responsible for that. (Brushed DC electric motor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushed_DC_electric_motor) )


Anyway, the potensiometer arrangement with neo bulb is of great value for sensing and triggering (after adjustment) the top portion of sinewave of a coil. (removes the "when" to short problem)

...................

we really need people involved in this to try various combos.
Anyway, the first thing i gonna make (sice get back from holidays) is to try the Plain Hector's diode plug alone, then with the big cap in parallel for retaining some energy to the system and see.

Regards,
Baroutologos

ps: Have you noticed that, although in a quite different setup and mode of operation, Bedini's pulse discharged monopole fully isolates for non reflective action the charging part from the front part?

Tecstatic
08-14-2009, 04:11 PM
Hello Guys,


I think Vissie that we deal with two distinct things there (?).

* The very fast shorting of a coil, when is "charged" or in other words in the peak of sine wave

* The normal apparent circulating energy extarction via Hector Perez's diode plug circuit.

Some poeple have combined the two approaches but yet cannot understand the benefits.


Yes, this is a two (3) stage process:

First you use the shorting of the charged coil to charge a capacitor.

Then you use another (partly) discharge of the cap to a transformer 1:5 winding ratio. The secondary of the transformer again charges a capacitor which is not loaded while being charged. From that cap during idle, you tap the energy with a buck converter running at a higher frequency, and resulting in the output voltage you want.

This is basicly Hectors EASER where the first stage is replaced by your magnet-coil-capacitor.

And I agree the timing is dependent upon components, temperature, RPM.



I have contacted EVGARY yahoo group. Koneheadx, has been mundanely repeated to me that if i short a coil, right at the peak of sine wave for very little time (just a portion of the tip of sinewave) then caps could be charged at x20 without any additional load. (that what he said!)



The gain for the circulating energy is proportional to the Q of the LC circuit.
So in the above example there is a relatively high Q.



Some people argue that the shorting of a coil in peak sine wave can be done by having magnets on the rotor for timing. I think its plain wrong. As Bedini said its tricky to do that.

I agree.

You see the need for a more easy precise control of timing ?

Imagine you add an optical encoder to the shaft, having a disk with eg. 2048 lines. The lines are read by two optical forks each having a square signal output because of the lines passing by.

The forks are positioned so that the square waves are shifted 90 degrees relative to each other.

These two signals can operate a digital up/down counter, so the counter value in this example resolves the shaft rotation in 8192 points. That is very precise, you can not get this precision with Hall or reed switches.

An Additional track on the disk has only one line (index) used to reset the counter to zero.

Now imagine you have a digital comparator looking at the counter, and when the counter reaches a given value an output is turned on, then reaching a new counter value shortly after the output is turned off again.

Also imagine the timing resolution is 32 ns, wouldn't that be quite nice?

This signal is the one shorting the coil.

Having another counter incrementing at fixed time intervals (called a timer) you can generate a timing resolution of 8 ns.

With a device containing 8 counter/timer circuits controlling up 24 outputs you will get a large degree of freedom to control the MOSFETs needed for this magnet motor/generator circuit.

This is the micro controller i have described in my thread.

As the timing is RPM dependent, now imagine you have a table in the memory.

This table holds for a number of RPM intervals (eg. 0-100, 101-200 ......or whatever needed ) each holding the numbers needed by the counter/timers to generate the desired timing for optimal operation.

-------

Apart from that, there is a lesson to be learned from gotolucs thread: Resonance effects for everyone to share, and DrStifflers thread. The tuning details are nicely described by the videos of gotoluc, and from DrStifflers thread we see that some tuning frequencies are much better than other frequencies.

The trick is make the properties of the coil/capacitor, so the resonance frequency is one of these frequencies, or an integer fraction thereof.

Having tuned DrStifflers circuit just off a signal generator (like gotoluc), the increase in the light output of the LEDs are amazing, from nothing or nearly nothing to incredibly bright.

This resonance effect is what is needed for the magnet motor/generator also.

-----------------------

This reflects my current understanding, if I'm wrong, please enlighten me.

Eric

baroutologos
08-23-2009, 07:54 PM
Back to experiementation again!

I spent some happy hours this afternoon studying my coils with a draft cap bank so as to study resonance or near resonance volts-current alternating in coils.

My today experiementing was focus on coil-to-magnet GAP.
.....
1cm

Being my rotor magnets of Nd type, i decided to make the gap some 1 cm.
Coils were posing a minimum load to rotor by cogging. Current volatge creation is greatly reduced also.

Again, if i make the suitable cap combo, my coils at 2200 rpm, although far from rotor, pose a considerable drag as if were near it when progressing towards resonance.

3cm

At this distance, the energy creation in the coils is barely there. but, if i try to resonate the coils with my caps, again, rotor -after a point- start to have considerable drag till motor cannot rotate it.
Yes from this far!

5cm

Coil output are 3 vdc and when shorted 70 mA circulate. When resonating with caps i can manage to achieve some 30 vac between cap leads and 400 mA current circulating. But that's it. No more amplification from such distance.

That's all for now

Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
08-25-2009, 07:58 AM
Results from the workbench.

i decided for eliminating phasing problems to remove a coil and proceed epxerimenting with single coil. (400 turns ten-fillar 29 awg)

Neo rotor - strong magnets of alternating polarity
.................................................. ....................

With the 12 alternating neo magnet rotor, i can managed to achieved some 65 vac of voltage in cap and 2 amps circulating the system. (motor is heavy loaded that way consuming 4 amps at 15,5 volts).

Changing rotor
.........................
I though, since we are concern with resonance effects and not for direct energy production, to restore my old SSG driven 6 poles all N face out ferrite magnet rotor that its attracting force is a Joke comparing to strong neos.

Surprisingly, i could obtain at 2100 rpm, some 46 vac in cap and 2 amps in circulation in the system. But those are the top values. Rotor drag is baraly there, comparing to neo magnets for same ac/amps production.

So, for resonance effects i concluded that the magnets are just the stimulation, for acVolts/amps buildup.

(In neo setup top values can go as far as 10 amps and voltage as 500, whereas the rotor breaks as hell, so no use)

The peculiar effect
.....................................

In neo-rotor setup, if i aproach coil to magnet and short coil direct without any caps, almost 2 amps are circulating in it. Coil gets slightly warm, whereas core is cool. (coil resistance 1 ohm)

When i try to resonate in (near resonance) with a cap, in the same current circulating, core gets HOT. Almost burns to touch. Notice my cores are from audio equipment designed for ultra low hysteresis/eddies losses, high Q.

Again, those features are not stopping the core from getting hot when in near resonace mode. The same effect is there either with neos or ferrite magnet rotor. (so not magnets do that in first place)

This reminded me the Bedini's Konverter machine when he said the coil's core are get hot. The heat in my setup, DOES NOT come from windings.

Any suggestions?

Regards,
Baroutologos

nvisser
08-25-2009, 08:15 AM
[QUOTE=baroutologos;65815]Results from the workbench.
Changing rotor
Surprisingly, i could obtain at 2100 rpm, some 46 vac in cap and 2 amps in circulation in the system. But those are the top values. Rotor drag is baraly there, comparing to neo magnets for same ac/amps production.

Hi
Can you remember what the current drawn by your motor was in above setup?

baroutologos
08-25-2009, 09:38 AM
I have well documented my setups losses as well as current draw at various RPM speeds.

In 2100 rpm zone, motor with ferrite rotor (more calibrated that the neo rotor) consumes around 2.5 amps at 16,5 volts. No coil present.

With coil present unshorted motor consumption at more or less ame RPM rises to 2,8 amps.
In resonance mode, it goes up to 3 - 3,2 amps at 16,5 volts.

By the way, i am not that much concerned for now about input.
I have focus on output.

EDIT: I am confident, that Bedini's FEG with the 6 coils series connected, same phase, and the cap "adjusted so as to obtain a special signal", its the resonance or near-resonace effect i am experiencing, while coils at some proper tuning pose little load to prime mover.

The difficulty and gap, IMO, in Bedini's paper, is how to extract energy from that oscillations, without derailing the system and kick it to Lenz zone.
Regards,
Baroutologos

Shamus
08-25-2009, 04:12 PM
You know I've looked at that booklet many, many times and at the end the prototype and drawing that he shows (page 32) doesn't have capacitors on it like he shows in an earlier drawing (page 25). OK, there is a variable capacitor between the "energizer" and the battery in parallel, but that's it. :)

The picture of his commutator shows that it's just alternating between powering the motor and dumping the charge back on the battery, 50% or less (from the drawing it looks like maybe 40%) of one revolution. He said you'd have to play with the timing, but that was the secret.

I've also heard that this kind of thing works best with flooded type lead-acid batteries because of the resonant frequency of the ion soup inside. Something to consider. I'm almost ready to get mine going, but I think I may have to change out magnets on the "energizer" portion to see results. Will post more when I have something to report. ;)

baroutologos
08-25-2009, 05:58 PM
I tried to change coil, and use a ready one, audio type, 2.6mH of 18 awg.

Then spun it to my neo rotor at 2100 rpm. (ferite rotor cannot excite this coil)
The coil builds up some 14vac and when shorted, circulates an 3,4 amps. On short it create also great drag to prime mover.

Resonating it with 90+ uf cap
.........................................

I managed to somehow semi-resonate the coil at 90+uf of cap value, and reading on cap was 26 vac and 2.85 amps circulating. Drag was relative little.

The interesting point is that, this normal coil that on direct short creates drag, (whereas my previous do not) is not heating that much its core. Actually its core is somehow cool (on the contrary, the lenzess coils make nice hot cores)

Drag is low also for the virtual vac/amps produced.
Confused at the moment.

Regards,
Baroutologos

nvisser
08-25-2009, 08:20 PM
I am not sure why I still try to make this work. Look at this document page 20 under cold fusion.
http://www.byronwine.com/files/plans.pdf
Maybe by charging a cap to only a bit to about 14v and the discharge it into the battery we create electron current and will not ruin the battery. But as I understood JB it is the ions that charge the battery (high voltage puses with no current) and how will we get the resonant freq if we are stuck to discharging every time 14 v are reached?
I think Barti went into the right direction with his resonance experiments. Now only to tap this energy witout killing the resonance.
Also read page 20 Easer energy pump about bedini etc

Chip Shorter
08-27-2009, 01:53 AM
Build it like the booklet says. The devil is in that switching commutator. Tesla had a similar dilema. Look at his patent 787,412 . Your going to want to look at his detector circuit in that patent(fig2). That is how you build an adjustable commutator circuit.

Flooded lead acids. The comm switching knocks the battery around a great deal. You'll never get that kind of zap with transistors and many have tried. The real thing making the energy for you is the Battery not the magneto or the flywheel(remember the snoops stole the batteries). If you can charge the Battery with less energy than you pull out of it then... The Flywheel is there to smooth out the lenz FX. The magneto is series coils. All it does is provide the hammer to knock those ions around in the Battery. On Watsons(big) machine judging by the pictures his magnets weren't corresponding to the coils meaning there was a pulse train suggesting a different type of switching to create the Battery effect. I personally think its better in a two battery circuit.

Good luck

nvisser
08-27-2009, 06:30 AM
Did you try it ?

baroutologos
08-27-2009, 06:38 AM
Theorizing is easy.

Bedini's FEG is just a story tale.
Ions go back and forth... each one has its own explaination.
IMO FEG's magneto is just a resonant circuit. And the battery is the storage medium.

From my replications so far of the SSG and similar stuff, have not observed anything like charging a battery on voltage or something like that. Voltage needed to push electons there. Current does the job. Flat dc or pulsed.

Unless you have different experience of course...

Experimental Data
.............................
I tested various combination at near resonance, with the 2,6mh coils and 400turns 10 fillar one (15-17 mh). Rotors used were my 6 magnet ferrite and 12 pole Nd magnets type one.

From various caps usage i found out that in both coils case and rotors too, for the creation of 100 watts of "virtual" circulating power, i.e volts ac at cap terminal x amps oscillating, i need 10 watts. Minor deviations observed.
So in my setup the ratio of input to virtual resonant "energy" is 10:1

Gonna proceed with the diode plug circuit.


Regards,
Baroutologos

Chip Shorter
08-28-2009, 02:43 AM
Theorizing is easy.

Bedini's FEG is just a story tale.
Ions go back and forth... each one has its own explaination.
IMO FEG's magneto is just a resonant circuit. And the battery is the storage medium.

From my replications so far of the SSG and similar stuff, have not observed anything like charging a battery on voltage or something like that. Voltage needed to push electons there. Current does the job. Flat dc or pulsed.

Unless you have different experience of course...

Experimental Data
.............................
I tested various combination at near resonance, with the 2,6mh coils and 400turns 10 fillar one (15-17 mh). Rotors used were my 6 magnet ferrite and 12 pole Nd magnets type one.

From various caps usage i found out that in both coils case and rotors too, for the creation of 100 watts of "virtual" circulating power, i.e volts ac at cap terminal x amps oscillating, i need 10 watts. Minor deviations observed.
So in my setup the ratio of input to virtual resonant "energy" is 10:1

Gonna proceed with the diode plug circuit.


Regards,
Baroutologos
I can only wish you luck my friend. From my experiments this is an electro-mechanical resonant device that creates a battery effect. Nothing more nothing less.

My early problems were too large diameter of a flywheel and it being unbalanced as well as the pulse commutator timing to the motor battery as well as the timing on the motor comm in relation to the pulse comm. Like I said a multiple battery system is the way to go on this once you get it tuned. And more pulses...

Shamus
08-28-2009, 03:45 PM
@ChipShorter: Did you have those batteries in series or parallel? Do you have any drawings/pictures/lab notes? :)

I'll probably have some more questions for you once I get my motor built. It's going to be driven by a hall switched window motor. ;)

nvisser
08-28-2009, 05:55 PM
[QUOTE=Chip Shorter;66026]Build it like the booklet says. The devil is in that switching commutator.
Did anybody used the flip flop solid state circuit that is also in the book?

baroutologos
09-01-2009, 11:14 AM
Hey, it's been a while!

Last weekend i made my first capbank. Its up to 300volts / 3amps rated. All motor run caps (9) with their respective little switches!
I can have this "variable capacitor" to tune the LC circuit with cap values 0.5 to 100 uf! Good range for fine tuning also.

More results
..................

I tested my setups to limits of 1 coil. I got some 3.4 amps circulating in capbank-coil and 75 vac. lots of power at power factor 0!!

For every 100 watts of pf=0 in my setup i need 8-12 watts of real motor input.

designing a diode plug
.............................

Its been somehow difficult. Parts - optos, chokes, or scr cannot be found as prescribed. Still trying to have this up till next weekend.

That's for now
Photos pending

Regards
Baroutologos

nvisser
09-01-2009, 07:10 PM
I’m not sure which diode plug circuit you are building
Is it one from here?
ZPE component resonant power extraction circuit - PESWiki (http://peswiki.com/index.php/ZPE_component_resonant_power_extraction_circuit)
A lot of the components can be found in old vga monitors or anything with switching power supplies like the pulse transformers, opto couplers and lots of mosfets, bridges , diodes and caps
Some has even got scr`s in the psu`s where it select the voltage input automatic between 220 or 110v(mostly in lase printer psu`s)

I stopped my replication for awhile and are concentrating on the tesla switch as a guy called Double D Published a very promising circuit with mosfets that freeze up!!!

baroutologos
09-05-2009, 02:22 PM
hello again.

Experimenting with the diode plug of caps in resonance i found out all things are as expected.
The resonating caps, although of high voltage at resonance, behind the diode plug their potential is considerably lower.

First attempts to extract power from the diode plug, resulted in, as alos expected, failure. Each watt out must be paid in input. :(

So far i have not seen any magic in cap extracting the resonance. Gona proceed at full operational diode plug as prescribed. Expectations are low also. Cannot think how is supposed the FEG to gain free energy. :confused:

..........
Anyway, experimenting has a twofold meaning. Striving to replicate something working or just proving it does not. At least as described.

Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
09-07-2009, 03:14 PM
I was re-re-re-reading Bedini's FEG booklet and try to decipher, how (if) is supposed to work this kind of device.

After long time of experimentation and pondering on it i safely can tell when i see Bedini's energizer,
that is a LC tank circuit that operates at (or near) resonance, thus each oscillation stacks on each other, making voltage as well as current to mount inside LC and after 3 consecutive oscillations (for the six pole, half circle commutator) the LC being discharged to the battery.

........
Last two days i have read a lot about resonance. The ONLY kind of resonance that is able to produce any extra energy - yes extra energy- and is accepted by mainstream science is the STOCHASTIC RESONANCE or Random resonance.

Basic concept is that: In a system that we harmonically apply a faint signal, that signal can be intesified in amplitude by the introduction and cooperation action of noise. The stochasti resonance phenomenon has been proposed for explaining the earth ice age pattern and is applied both to micro as well to macro Cosmos.
It is a unique procedure in which we have negative entropy. instead of a signal to degrade to abient noise, it is amplified by it and make the ambient noise a coordinated force.
.....

Concerning the electromagnetic systems, SR has been observed in microscopic rings that have been stimulated by x frequency alternating magnetic field. They have been observed currents of quite bigger intensity that conventional theories predicted.

http://www.physik.uni-augsburg.de/theo1/hanggi/Papers/410.pdf

In our case, if any OU can be produced, it will be by the application of a signal and its intensification by ambient noise. Signal could be an oscillating current or better an alternating magnetic field inside a core of a coil and noise the ambient thermal energy.
Only by transformation of ambient thermal energy to intensified magnetic field and upon its collapse into increased current can satisfy the Law of conservation of energy and same time achieving OU.

Summarizing, in Bedini's FEG having a resonating LC and having (as Mr Bedini claims) OU, this could be easily attributed to Stochasti resonance phenomenon. The stochastic resonance can take place in the LC or between LC and battery under stress when commutator connects it.

Strcily speaking, in order to manifest SR, a lot of conditions should be met in an non-linear system. The most critical is the noise-to-signal ratio for maximum output.

Anyway, if could be done, it should not be that difficult... or not?

Regards,
Baroutologos

boguslaw
09-07-2009, 06:26 PM
TransWorld Energy (http://www.28an.com/altenergypro/device07.htm)

baroutologos
09-07-2009, 07:56 PM
OK, i have read Mr Smiths paper and concepts of resonance device.

Each one has his own explaination. Bedini says he stresses batteries' electrolyte, Smith says he utilizes magnetic resonance... go figure.

Also Bedini says about having OU in low frequency like 120-200 Hz whereas Smith talks about Megaherz rates.
.....
The point is resonance is in play. Electric resonance for sure is there and inevitably magnetic resonance in the cores follows by the inductor action.

So, if any tinkerer like me (and not a nuclear scientist owner of CERN) hopes at achieving OU, it must achieved by modest means, as plain coils and magnets, some caps and smart timing, along with power management in input.

Regards,
Baroutologos

nvisser
09-08-2009, 12:29 PM
Another interesting website with similar generators. See the parts about Bedini, Wilson and manta generator
Tilley Block Diagrams & Parts List - KeelyNet 01/12/03 (http://keelynet.com/tilley/tillblock.htm)

baroutologos
09-08-2009, 05:33 PM
Good job vissie!

this is another perspective of the FEG. Anyway, the writer is not even aware where this kind of energy might come from.
He speculates from the mass. Wrong. So many spinning masses around. How can come from the mass. Internal combustion engines are rotating masses on pulses. Are OU? Hell no.

So energy-mass rotation is out of question for me. The weight is for smoothing the cogging torque. Period. He says that Bedini's machine can output 800% of input energy. That means for the 12 watts input (the booklet says) 100 watts output must be there... Geez... if was so easy.

The only right, i can attribute to Bedini claims is that almost no-one build the machine as per specs and whine it does not works.

........
Anyway.. i am gonna utilize more coils in series so as to approach the 6 coil number. Again this machine MUST work on resonance collection. Otherwise no sense at this elaborate energizer.

Again writer says (as Bedini) that the Lead-acid battery is self powering. Could be?
According our theory conditioning on SSG technology,
"radiant energy" is being captured and utilized by the battery. ok... again in the FEG, we have a cap. According SSG theory, caps convert radiant energy to normal electricity. So? How discharging the cap to battery we have radiant trasfer since transformation has been done already in cap?

Go figure.. again if you do not so, you will be accused of not complying to schedule! :)

Anyway... may the force (radiant energy) be with us

Regards,
Baroutologos

Sephiroth
09-08-2009, 06:21 PM
No offense baroutologos, but I don't think it is wise to be so certain about things you have yet to verify.

baroutologos
09-09-2009, 07:11 AM
No offence taken Seph! :)

Just trying to find a solution here! No disrespect also to inventor also are meant in my post. honeslty.
By the way, i am confident that i have verified that the rotating mass is not adding energy to the system.


Regards,
Baroutologos

ren
09-09-2009, 07:20 AM
Internal combustion engines are rotating masses on pulses. Are OU? Hell no.



I dont know if Id agree with you there. Is the ICE overunity? Id love to see someone do the math. Dont forget that your everyday ICE overcomes its own friction (which is considerable) pumps air and fluids, generates electricity (quite a bit) not to mention all the heat it produces.

If you go through your Smith document again you will probably note some references to "OU" machines. Amongst them is "explosion" along with fulcrum/levers. Not many people consider that one.

My point is, if one tracks all inputs and ouputs "useful/utilized" or not then one soon develops a different understanding to "OU".

Myself, I dislike the term...


Regards

baroutologos
09-09-2009, 07:52 AM
Guys, theorizing is good and fine for coffee time.. but if you invest at making an OU device you do not want your money be wasted at redundant theories.

I bet that no-one can asemble an useful OU machine, as FEG, with rotating masses only. If you can, be my guest...

@Ren, this is not an ice thread by the way. But when you say ice you mean refrigirators? Yes, almost any heat pump is OU. But, the output is of much greater entropy than the input, thus not sustainable. :p

Regards,
Baroutologos

Sephiroth
09-09-2009, 08:36 AM
though the rotating mass may not neccessarily add to the total energy in the system, if you add inertia to a pulse motor it allows for more of the energy to be available to the generator.

You've seen the thread "conservation of charged violated", right? That experiment shows that adding inductance to the circuit results in a higher efficiency in energy transfer between the capacitors.

Inertia is the mechanical equivellant of inductance. I believe the higher your inductance (inertia) ratio is compared to your resistance (bearings, wind etc) the more efficient the transfer of energy will be to your generator from your pulse motor.

baroutologos
09-09-2009, 11:04 AM
You have a good point there Seph!

Indeed, if you put that way, the mass avoids the motor during on pulse to have vibrations etc ect hence smoother action, hence cleaner energy trasnfer. Cool.

By for the time being i am not concerned , about primary input management. I am concerned about making extra energy.

Regards,
Baroutologos

Sephiroth
09-09-2009, 12:39 PM
I am concerned about making extra energy.

That's the idea :thumbsup:

though I have my priorities the other way around.

Peter Lindemann makes a very good point about placing more importance on investing more in energy saving techniques than investing in a load of solar panels. If you can double the energy efficiency of your house, you will only need half the solar panels to run it, and usually it is much cheaper to double your home's energy efficiency than it would be to buy twice as many solar panels.

I focus on how to recover as much of the energy we put into our systems as possible. The "extra energy" is a secondary consideration since usually it makes up just a fraction of the energy that we are putting in.

If we lose 75% of our energy through entropy, then we need the extra energy to compensate for this huge loss before we even see the systems breaking even.

However, if our systems can recover 90% of the energy that we input, then we only need the extra energy to make up for 10% of the losses.

THEN we can concentrate on how to increase this figure :whistle:

:cheers:

baroutologos
09-09-2009, 09:11 PM
No no no... energy savings are for those on energy shortage and ots a defensive attitude. If we learn to produce energy at will, at vast quantities, then savings will be a second consideration.

Regards,
Baroutologos

ren
09-09-2009, 09:18 PM
Guys, theorizing is good and fine for coffee time.. but if you invest at making an OU device you do not want your money be wasted at redundant theories.

I bet that no-one can asemble an useful OU machine, as FEG, with rotating masses only. If you can, be my guest...

@Ren, this is not an ice thread by the way. But when you say ice you mean refrigirators? Yes, almost any heat pump is OU. But, the output is of much greater entropy than the input, thus not sustainable. :p

Regards,
Baroutologos


ICE = Internal combustion engine.

Sephiroth
09-09-2009, 09:27 PM
No no no... energy savings are for those on energy shortage and ots a defensive attitude. If we learn to produce energy at will, at vast quantities, then savings will be a second consideration.

Regards,
Baroutologos

lol... fair enough... Good luck with it then :thumbsup:

Chip Shorter
09-10-2009, 02:14 AM
Guys, theorizing is good and fine for coffee time.. but if you invest at making an OU device you do not want your money be wasted at redundant theories.

I bet that no-one can asemble an useful OU machine, as FEG, with rotating masses only. If you can, be my guest...

@Ren, this is not an ice thread by the way. But when you say ice you mean refrigirators? Yes, almost any heat pump is OU. But, the output is of much greater entropy than the input, thus not sustainable. :p

Regards,
Baroutologos

You need to start at the beginning and understand the fundemental conversion we are talking about. All these machines do is convert one form of energy into another form. Whenever you do that you lose effeciency. That is why OU can never be. Understand what COP means and how COP> infinity is possible. I know I figured it out. Understand the laws of the conservation of energy. Build, experiment. Learn why things are. Learn what positive energy is and what negative energy is and how to convert from one to another. This is the best I can do for you. I could show you all the things I built and give you a step by step covering everything FE but in the end that will not get you the kind of knowlege you get from learning by building these experiments.

I will be more that happy to drop a clue here and there as I do from time to time on this board.

Sephiroth
09-10-2009, 06:17 AM
You need to start at the beginning and understand the fundemental conversion we are talking about. All these machines do is convert one form of energy into another form. Whenever you do that you lose effeciency. That is why OU can never be. Understand what COP means and how COP> infinity is possible. I know I figured it out. Understand the laws of the conservation of energy. Build, experiment. Learn why things are. Learn what positive energy is and what negative energy is and how to convert from one to another. This is the best I can do for you. I could show you all the things I built and give you a step by step covering everything FE but in the end that will not get you the kind of knowlege you get from learning by building these experiments.

I will be more that happy to drop a clue here and there as I do from time to time on this board.

Hi Chip Shorter,

I agree with everything you have posted in this thread so far. Though I was curious why having a flywheel with a diameter too large negatively effect your machine?

baroutologos
09-10-2009, 07:01 AM
@ Chipshorter,

You talk with ridlles man...
You claim you have solve the mystery there and got more energy out in plain electrical terms???( watts in < watts out)
If yes, teach me master! :)
I do want to learn, and for sure i like experiementing!

Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
09-10-2009, 08:24 AM
@Chip Shorter,

My system so far is :

A 12-pole alternative polarity Nd-magnets rotor, loosely inductive coupled to two coils 15-16mH each, series connected (multistrand wire there - 29awg 10 fillar 1ohm each) spinning at 2000+- rpm (200 hz)

The cap is actually a cap bank, 0-100 uf with 0.5 uf accuracy of adjustment.

The improvised trigger circuit, works and dumbs the cap's charge at specified voltage threshold. (instead of standard commutator at every 3 oscillations or so)

small components: scr 22RIA120, potensiometer 5K, transistor 2n3439, resistor 1K, diodes 1N4007, diac DB3 (30 volts breakdown), battery 12-24 volts. I know the circuit has flaws (since potensiometer acts more as resistor rather as voltage regulator) by the way it works.

......
The system works and charges by resonance rather than direct inductive coupling between magnets and coils.

**Note i can resonate the coils and pose huge drag to rotor being as far as 10cm from magnets!! tremendous magnetic fields is greated that way and rotor-coils are "linked" from very far.
.....

By the way, initial experiments show a poor COP of the setup. Working cap at best battery charging rate at 200 Hz (1 batt) seems to be the 10uf value. if i proceed towards resonance, amps/voltages inside LC climb up (before being dumped) and battery does not respond by charging up. Instead charging goes down... (impedance matching??)

Terribly puzzled at the moment.


Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
09-12-2009, 08:34 AM
Some more findings...

I run to test this particular configuration... (noisy damn)
When i adjust the caps to lower motor consumption / better battery charging (judging by voltage increase) i could touch the working SCR and feels like.... SSG on a greater magnitude.

Damn. Little voltage spikes penetrate my thumb and index causing an spiky sensation..

I must admit the best working values for this setup, is no where near to that must should for resonance attainment. Whereas, resonance could be achieved somewhere near 15-20 uF, the circuit has better charging at 5uf.

Mystery for now. I can also adjust potensiometer to "select" between little and more discharges that work best, and heavier and less ones.
Heavier cap discharges over-heat SCR (22RIA120!!) and drag motor.

Anyway, it charges like an SSG. Efficiency is to be determined at C20 rates.

Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
09-13-2009, 03:37 PM
Ok,some positive results at first sight :)

I measured some 85-90% efficiency of input output regarding charging/discharging ratio, without calculating any input losses at all. I have to double-triple check my findings, anyway.

The procedure
....................

Discharging
.................
A 10 ampH 12v motor cycle lead acid battery, discharged via a 5 watt bulb (0.5amps draw) for 6 plus hours. (battery went down from 12,65 to 12,10 volts)

Tuning
..........
I then set it to my 2 coil, very little core setup that are tuned via cap bank to provide best battery charging / less motor drag.

Calculation considerations
..................................
I assume system freewheeling and not connected to anything (48 watts
3 amps x 16 volts needed) as a baseline and not included to efficiency calculation (since no carrent flows into coils and no charging is happening)

The charging
...................
The best charging is happening at certain cap values. This is related almost to anything. (coil setup, magnet gap, frequency of course, etc etc)

When the battery is under charging, system input rises from 3 amps to 4 amps with a small volatge drop of my power regulator. (i calculated 60 watts at charging or 15 watts surplus 4amps x 15volts)

Charging under those circumstances (till batt volatge went over 15 volts) lasted 2 hours and 20 minutes. (battery same charged state)

Bear in mind motor efficiency is rated 78-80% at best and SCR overheated.
...

Ok, some very efficient numbers over here that need verification anyway. No extraordinary results though. I am gonna proceed with 4 coils, higher voltage-amperage capability and i report findings, and circuit with 2 SCRs 22RIA120.


Regards,
Baroutologos

baroutologos
09-14-2009, 10:37 AM
I was thinking that my device's behaviour that resebles somehow FEG, is quite counter intuitive.

Of course it has coils and magnets, thus voltage amp capability, and yes it has tunnable capacitors hence tunning.

But, at those rpm with those inductunce values as well as cap values i am no where close to resonace but the battery charges a lot better than in a more close-to-resonance mode with fewer drag.

I have come to some theories about that.

One of my speculations is that the energizer part (alternator+cap) produces a whole range of frequencies rather than the predominant frequency that the magnets dictate.
We all know the capability of a wire to trasmit too many frequencies over it.
Some how same case i see FEG's energizer. it produces a whole spectrum of frequencies, perhaps some well into RF range and battery charges most effienctly from them rather than higher current lower frequency.

I do not even know how that could be the case, but something similar should have take place. Recall Bedini's words who says, the battery "rings at 1-2 Mhz" and "self charges"

Ok... maybe beneficial parasitic frequencies in play???

Regards,
Baroutologos

Sephiroth
09-14-2009, 10:47 AM
My 24ah batteries self resonate at 1MHZ when hit with the voltage spike from an inductive collapse... It is like tapping a tuning fork. Give the battery a short sharp tap and they will resonate at their natural frequency.

baroutologos
09-16-2009, 08:29 AM
Ok, i concluded with the 2 coils, series connected my experiments and measurements.

.................

The whole system due to magnetic-resonance coupling behaves as a very efficient pulsed battery charger. No near OU. Actually, measurements made with a single coil, and measurements made with 2, shows little - if any - additional efficiency gain by the coil addition.

I have concluded after extensive experimenting, with solid state as well as reed switching (commutator not had) that OU is nowhere near at those specs.

The future experimenters on FEG, maybe bear in mind my conslusions.

Regards,
Baroutologos

ren
09-17-2009, 04:31 AM
My 24ah batteries self resonate at 1MHZ when hit with the voltage spike from an inductive collapse... It is like tapping a tuning fork. Give the battery a short sharp tap and they will resonate at their natural frequency.

Sep,

may I ask you how you discovered this? As in your measuring procedure?

Regards

Sephiroth
09-17-2009, 06:25 AM
Put your oscilloscope leads across the charging battery's terminals and set the volt divisions to where you can see the spike. Then increase the time scale until the spike takes up the entire display. You'll see just after the spike hits (I mean the spike, not what I call the flyback current), the voltage across the terminals will oscillate. On my 24ah batteries, the oscillations are at about 1mhz.

ren
09-17-2009, 08:20 AM
interesting Sep.
I havent tried that yet.

Have you considered comparing your running frequency to that? I mean, does your energizer run at its most efficient at a harmonic of the 1MHz the battery is oscillating at? Im gonna try this out when I get home. Cheers:thumbsup:

Sephiroth
09-17-2009, 08:27 AM
I haven't built an oscillator that can operate efficiently at 1mhz, though it would be interesting to try... :thumbsup:

Probably the best way would be to use a low inductance coil running off a 555 circuit... the mjl21194 should be ok with that frequency.... I think it is rated at 4mhz...

ren
09-17-2009, 09:58 AM
Thats not exactly what I meant Sep.

By harmonic I was meaning a derivative of... So say your wheel turned best at 1/100 of that at its most efficient. I was simply saying is there a co relation between the run frequency and the frequency that is oscillating on the battery.

I did a test recently where I ran a third wire to bridge rectifier and installed a 400v 6uF cap over the bridge. I was intending to use a capacitive discharge circuit, but instead of dumping it into a battery directly I was going to try passing it through the primary of an ignition coil, on the way to the battery. I couldnt quite get the cap to discharge as I would have liked and I ended up just placing the ignition coil in the negative leg of the charging lines. To my surprise the battery seemed to continue to charge and there was HV for lighting a fluro as well. I didnt think it would work without an interruptor of some sort to interrupt current in the ignition coil.

So I had the basic conclusion that the inductive spike, although rectified and "converted" in the capacitor must still effect a "ringing" of sorts in the battery and extra inductor (ignition coil).

I was wondering if this is partly related to the HF oscillation you noticed at the terminals of the battery.:thinking:

Sephiroth
09-17-2009, 10:12 AM
You mean send in another spike with the right timing to maintain and possibly amplify the oscillation?

I'm not sure if that would have much effect without very high frequencies since the ringing fades off very quickly... perhaps only a dozen oscilations before it has faded off so to maintain the resonance you would still need frequencies around 250 - 500khz.

Though maybe I still don't understand :confused:

ren
09-17-2009, 10:42 AM
maybe I have over complicated it somewhat.

I simply meant to ask is there a relation between the sweet spots tuning (top speed) and the frequency of oscillation at the battery.

1 megahertz = 1 000 000 hertz.

If your highest efficient frequency was at, say 1 000 hertz, then you would be oscillating at a harmonic of 1MHz, no? Of course, we arent measuring very accurately here, I just thought there might be some relation of the sweet spots in comparison to the batteries self resonating.

So kind of like a frequency within the frequency. But without change to the machines operating frequency.

Just speculating...

baroutologos
10-02-2009, 05:39 PM
Further experimenting...

Today i had day off and dedicated some 12 hours constantly working on my setup. The plan was to make another 0-100 uf cap bank and a full diode plug as prescribed by Davidkou. (basic Hector's Peres diode plug)

All nice and good. The motor went up and running, but damn... Each watt out must be paid of each watt in.

.........
The main premise of my machine is the following. I have a special arrangement of coils that upon a dead short it speed-ups and input goes down. Actually my generator works best at dead short function.

The problem is resistance via ohmic load or applying a battery. The diode plug effectively decouples the generator coils from any load or batteries. this is performed in two stages process.
In the first stage a quite adjustable set of caps (2 cap banks) are charged and when the current reverses the cap discharges to load not reflecting to source. (Isolates source from load)

The caps does not pose any load to generating coils. They actually act as a short if large enough.

......
Even though i can tune the performance depending the cap value, nothing extraordinary i manage to observe so far.

Some more experimentation tomorrow even though expectations quite low.

Regards,
Baroutologos

ps: cannot attach photos for some reason

baroutologos
10-06-2009, 04:52 AM
The photos i promise to upload from the above reply experimentation

Baroutologos

nvisser
10-27-2009, 09:41 AM
I found this on Panecea: John%20Bedini%20Technology page 93. Battery conditioning.
So it is possible that I had the correct configiration before but my batteries was never conditioned before. I am in the process of doing it now and will never touch them again with a convetional charger!!

"This process is regarded as “conditioning” the batteries and will result from applying a certain number of these charge and discharge cycles. Most first timers who build these units and expect instant “Free energy” and it does not work that way. The “efficiency” shows up in the conditioned.
That is why the Jim Watson machine flywheel machine did not work after they took the batteries away."

Zooty
10-28-2009, 03:13 PM
I am planning on building one of these with an ssg rotor instead of dc motor. I dont see drag being an issue as long the energizer portion is open circuit at TDC. The field collapse happens just after TDC so shorting the energizer coils at this point to collect the spike should not really cause drag. The cogging effect i believe should also cause no drag once the unit gets up to speed. Cogging is a zero net difference with an open coil.. attraction towards the core plus drag going away from the core should practically zero out the drag if you see what i mean. Has anyone tried an ssg with energizer open circuit? does the ssg spin up to its normal rpm? Somebody said that if the FEG really does work, the energy must be coming from the magnets but i dont believe this otherwise the magnets would eventually loose their strength. I believe that when a magnet magnetizes the core, the magnet is refilling itself in realtime from somewhere, maybe the vacuum? as the magnetism is absorbed in to the core. I have tried timing a coil short just after the magnet passes and it does pass current to a cap without any noticeable drag but it has to be done on time and released before the next magnet reaches the core. I also think that another wheel with magnets may not be necessary depending on how much you want to recover. My ssg wheel has 12 grade 5 ceramic magnets, not very strong but perfect for ssg operation. My idea is to place maybe 8 coils in series around the wheel which should be like one big high impedance coil with enough magnetized core to produce a good spike. Rick Frederick done it with one 34 ohm coil and triple stacked ceramic magnets on the wheel. I dont have enough magnets to triple stack but if i was going to replicate his setup with single magnets i would make 3 coils in series adding up to 34 ohms. The only difference would be that i would have 3 times the core material. Its something ill have to try. Maybe the core needs a certain amount of magnetic field to produce the effect and 3 in series might not produce the same result but its worth trying no?

nvisser
10-28-2009, 06:25 PM
Would you mind posting a schematic how you plan to short the energizer coils and the rest of your coil wiring?

blackchisel97
10-28-2009, 07:49 PM
Put your oscilloscope leads across the charging battery's terminals and set the volt divisions to where you can see the spike. Then increase the time scale until the spike takes up the entire display. You'll see just after the spike hits (I mean the spike, not what I call the flyback current), the voltage across the terminals will oscillate. On my 24ah batteries, the oscillations are at about 1mhz.

Seph - is that what you mean? - http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c285/Blackchisel/IMG_1119.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c285/Blackchisel/IMG_1117.jpg

:cheers:
Vtech

Sephiroth
10-28-2009, 09:26 PM
Seph - is that what you mean? - http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c285/Blackchisel/IMG_1119.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c285/Blackchisel/IMG_1117.jpg

:cheers:
Vtech

That's pretty close to what I am seeing ^_^ I'm sure that is the same effect.

I'll upload some pics of the scope shot across the battery terminals on my Fat Boy oscillator since that makes the best quality spike with really good ringing after it....

Will start a separate thread since this is a bit off topic

Zooty
10-29-2009, 01:57 AM
@nvisser. I have a standard bedini ssg setup on its own circuit feeding a charging batt. the other 3 coils are going to be connected in series by themselves. i would connect them to the ac side of a rectifier, the dc- from the rectifier direct to the negative of the main batt and the dc+ through a mechanical switch to the positive of the main batt. The switch would fire at the beginning of the field collapse of the 3 coils.

nvisser
10-29-2009, 10:58 AM
That means the 3 coils are your energizer coils and you are going to short them just after tdc of the drive coil?
What components will you use to short them? Mechanical or reed switch with other components?

baroutologos
10-29-2009, 01:24 PM
The concept of what you say is that shorting a passive generating coil and capturing the pulse. Shorting must always be at higest voltage potential of the coils (in unshorted state) or in other words when the core or the windings have been thoroughly magnetically "charged".

It has been formed a whole thread regarding this. In EV GRAY yaho group, Koneheadx, has been extensively involved in shorting generating coils and charging caps.

As the plain SSG, shorting an passive coil is another means for obtaining a sharp volatge spike. The procedure could be done more than once per cycle.

Baroutologos

Zooty
10-29-2009, 03:48 PM
shorting the coil through a load at TDC might as well be a normal gernerator, its going to cause drag because of the pole reversal(core becomes south, magnet is north, they attract causing the drag) that happens as the current goes through the load, also, you are not collecting the collapse but an induced current from the moving magnetic field cutting the coil. Switching the coil on during the field collapse after the magnet has left TDC is a different ball game, no current and very high voltage with almost no duration, also the pole flip that happens at the core being south in nature is directly bucking the invisible south pole between the north magnets (i have seen this with a compass, it clearly exists) giving the wheel a free push, i believe this is what is partly pushing the wheel on the standard ssg. I asked a question on another thread about the status of the core during the creation of the spike going to the charging batt, i still believe the core flips to south as the spike is sent to the load but where is the magnet during this event? past the core where a south field exists.. two south poles are going to repel.. i may be completely wrong but this is how i am visualizing it.

baroutologos
10-29-2009, 03:59 PM
Collecting a collapsinbg magnetic field huh? OK, that's an idea, it must put to a test to see how sound it is.
By the way, the "scallar" south between two norths is a quite natural thing.

I have not been at all conviced that the scalar south attraction is the force that moves the ssg and NOT the repulsion of the 2 norths.

Actually i have made a NSNSNS SSG. it runs like quite normal, even though the NNNN config must have better mechanical output.

Baroutologos

nvisser
10-29-2009, 04:27 PM
Zooty . You said "shorting the coil through a load at TDC might as well be a normal gernerator, its going to cause drag" and in your previous post you said "I dont see drag being an issue as long the energizer portion is open circuit at TDC. The field collapse happens just after TDC so shorting the energizer coils at this point to collect the spike should not really cause drag."
Very confusing!
By "shorting the coil" do you mean connecting the coil by switch to the load or put a short directly over the coil by a parralel switch?

wrtner
10-29-2009, 04:29 PM
Collecting a collapsinbg magnetic field huh? OK,
Actually i have made a NSNSNS SSG. it runs like quite normal, even though the NNNN config must have better mechanical output.

People forget the potential of drawing shaft power, although I
understand that if you do, the variable resistor excercise has
to be run again to tune the device.
Paul-R

Zooty
10-29-2009, 05:00 PM
"I dont see drag being an issue as long the energizer portion is open circuit at TDC. The field collapse happens just after TDC so shorting the energizer coils at this point to collect the spike should not really cause drag."

What i mean by this is that if the energizer coils are open circuit at TDC then there is no current flow and no induced field to cause drag. Closing the energizer circuit through a load with a switch AFTER the magnet has left TDC should not cause drag because the north magnetic field from the magnet is not over the core anymore.

nvisser
11-07-2009, 02:05 PM
Baroutologos mentioned it much earlier in this thread
Use 8 magnets and 7 coils to reduce drag
I found a document explaining why.

Sephiroth
11-07-2009, 02:15 PM
Baroutologos mentioned it much earlier in this thread
Use 8 magnets and 7 coils to reduce drag
I found a document explaining why.

Using an eight magnet/seven coil configuration doesn't reduce drag. It reduces the apparent effects of cogging.

But I don't see cogging being a negative issue. In fact, the cogging effect appears to act as a virtual flywheel which may even be of benefit.

With the MG-1 I was originally using a 4 magnet/5 coil configuration but found that a 5 magnet/5 coil configuration out performed it. When the power was disconnected after the motor had reached full speed, the rotor free wheeled for longer using the 5/5 configuration than it did with the 4/5 configuration.

baroutologos
11-07-2009, 05:21 PM
@Seph,

LOL. Are you serious? 5 coils on 5 magnets in simultaneous alignment results in a hugh cogging torque outline. Even 2 coils in a simultanous alignment is a pain in the ....

...
In any sense i have tried more or less EVERYTHING regarding FEG and does not work as claimed. Period.

The ONLY thing i never tried and obviously Should not work is to arrange the windings in such way so as to produce in the same time the Bedini famous two canceling waves. (see EFTV 6)

Or in other words, when a coil or set of coils generate a possitive pulse, the others to generate a negative and effectively canceling each other.
Logically no current there and no battery charging.

I have disembled my setups due to moving. If anyone with a Kromrey converter or FEG if interested, should try opposing voltage windings sets and see... what to be seen

baroutologos

Sephiroth
11-07-2009, 05:49 PM
@Seph,

LOL. Are you serious? 5 coils on 5 magnets in simultaneous alignment results in a hugh cogging torque outline. Even 2 coils in a simultanous alignment is a pain in the ....


Yes... I am serious.
YouTube - MG-1 : Pulse Motor Generator (SSG) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJvzPZRKWlg&feature=related)
YouTube - MG-1 : 8550rpm, 712hz, 193km/h (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YKOBrYdEDQ)

baroutologos
11-07-2009, 07:50 PM
OK, this qualifies for the toy category at high velocity.
BY the way, SSG is a pulse motor and NOt a generator. That means when in alignment the coil pulses and so no cogging around. on the contrary.

In FEG, We are talking for generator passive coils and not pulse motors that each coil tributes to movement..

By the way, for avoiding confusion, this can happen at high velocities and excellently calibrated systems. or almost impossible for considerably strong magnets of greater electrical output.

Baroutologos

Sephiroth
11-07-2009, 07:58 PM
OK, this qualifies for the toy category at high velocity.
BY the way, SSG is a pulse motor and NOt a generator. That means when in alignment the coil pulses and so no cogging around. on the contrary.

In FEG, We are talking for generator passive coils and not pulse motors that each coil tributes to movement..

By the way, for avoiding confusion, this can happen at high velocities and excellently calibrated systems. or almost impossible for considerably strong magnets of greater electrical output.

Baroutologos

ok... I agree that cogging is undesirable on the generator for practical reasons... the file nvisser posted wasn't for a generator.

though the ssg can act as a motor and generator with the right configurations...

by the way... I would rather you didn't refer to it as a "toy".

ren
11-07-2009, 10:02 PM
OK, this qualifies for the toy category at high velocity.
BY the way, SSG is a pulse motor and NOt a generator. That means when in alignment the coil pulses and so no cogging around. on the contrary.

In FEG, We are talking for generator passive coils and not pulse motors that each coil tributes to movement..

By the way, for avoiding confusion, this can happen at high velocities and excellently calibrated systems. or almost impossible for considerably strong magnets of greater electrical output.

Baroutologos

Baroutologos.

Your attitude towards these machines is obviously negatively geared, no doubt due to your past faliures to achieve the results you expected.

The SG is NOT a motor, and it is NOT a generator. And Sephiroth's unit is NOT at toy. Foolish to judge it by its size alone. "By the way, to avoid confusion" you should refrain from posting your opinions when it is obvious you dont know what you are talking about. I cant even understand what you are trying to say in your last few sentences. Are you saying strong magnets cant be used? Bill Mueller would laugh in your face as he turned his Neo rotor at high speed. So would Sephiroth, who has used Neos on some of his designs before if I am not mistaken.

You still see the whole thing conventionally, and that is why you fail I believe. The power doesnt come from the magnets! Even in the generator side of Bedinis FEG!

If you cant see what JB has shown you in this simple device then Im afraid the next few steps will constantly elude you. Im very aware of your opinions in these matters, you seem to voice them in each possible place. Ive havent said much, biting my tongue for the most part, but calling Seps design a "toy" was pretty much the last straw for me. I found his build extremely refreshing in both configuration and build quality, and the speed at which it reaches astounded me. Now if he can generate over 8000rpm AND charge a second battery up to and over 90% efficiency and he is yet to configure ANY generator side I think that is superb. His unit so far only has the "motor" function built, and even then it nearly charges 1 to 1. And no thanks to the magnets for power out. Plus it draws less when mechanically loaded, and its input doesnt increase when electrically loaded (charging bank increased).

Im not meaning to shoot you down here, but I have had enough of you seeming to do the same thing to others when their ideas and designs are expressed. Have some imagination, the possibilities on Seps design are endless.

Regards

Sephiroth
11-07-2009, 10:06 PM
Baroutologos.

Your attitude towards these machines is obviously negatively geared, no doubt due to your past faliures to achieve the results you expected.

The SG is NOT a motor, and it is NOT a generator. And Sephiroth's unit is NOT at toy. Foolish to judge it by its size alone. "By the way, to avoid confusion" you should refrain from posting your opinions when it is obvious you dont know what you are talking about. I cant even understand what you are trying to say in your last few sentences. Are you saying strong magnets cant be used? Bill Mueller would laugh in your face as he turned his Neo rotor at high speed. So would Sephiroth, who has used Neos on some of his designs before if I am not mistaken.

You still see the whole thing conventionally, and that is why you fail I believe. The power doesnt come from the magnets! Even in the generator side of Bedinis FEG!

If you cant see what JB has shown you in this simple device then Im afraid the next few steps will constantly elude you. Im very aware of your opinions in these matters, you seem to voice them in each possible place. Ive havent said much, biting my tongue for the most part, but calling Seps design a "toy" was pretty much the last straw for me. I found his build extremely refreshing in both configuration and build quality, and the speed at which it reaches astounded me. Now if he can generate over 8000rpm AND charge a second battery up to and over 90% efficiency and he is yet to configure ANY generator side I think that is superb. His unit so far only has the "motor" function built, and even then it nearly charges 1 to 1. And no thanks to the magnets for power out. Plus it draws less when mechanically loaded, and its input doesnt increase when electrically loaded (charging bank increased).

Im not meaning to shoot you down here, but I have had enough of you seeming to do the same thing to others when their ideas and designs are expressed. Have some imagination, the possibilities on Seps design are endless.

Regards

Thank you, Ren :cheers:

baroutologos
11-08-2009, 06:15 AM
@all,

Ren, i am worried about that my "failures" tend to be EVERYBODY failures here, so no use in personalize it. Constructive criticism is a step towards the truth.
as for Muller design he used strong neos in odd/even config just for eliminating the cogging. Muller machine is indeed generator that why he used the odd/even config.

SSG is a motor. Bedini claims is an energizer. Obviously charges batteries hence energizer. Nevertheless works and is a pulse motor. So the cogging effect is not so obvious in SSG setup anyway. And a very effient one. The 8000 rpm has almost no meaning. In a excellent constructed device, this could have been 30000 rpm. The energy In vs Out matters plus work done.

And by the way, just for the record, the results that i have been expecting was free energy out. No such luck.
On the other hand perhaps i think too much conventionally. In any case i have not witnessed much unconventional things going on.

..........
Finally i want to believe... but my only problem is the thing what i have to believe must be real. Noones word taken for granted. Personally I do not believe in any religion neither i recognize easily athorities without evidence.

and i beg to be exscused for my term toy. A toy free energy machine is the one that outputs miliwatts or even watts. The serious free energy machine is the one that output kilowatts according to my perverted thinking.
unfortunately, we are unable to have even "toys" so far.

In any case, Seph is a great experimenter and craftman. i aknowledge that. as you Ren. But questioning as my wise Ancient Greeks have said it well, is the begging of knowledge. Question everything. I personally question as much the contemporary science theories as Bedini's theories. That does not necessarily means Bedini could not have achieved OU. Hence i persist with this odd technology and ambiguous teachings.

Having said all that, i wish not to be taken as outcast. This forum is not a Bedini worship temple. Perhaps my language sometimes is harsh, but that is a part of my character and trying to improve. :p

finally, yes the possibilities are endless in our universe, but here we explore certain techologies with specific outlines and expect more or less claimed outputs.

Baroutologos

Tecstatic
11-08-2009, 01:02 PM
@all,

Ren, i am worried about that my "failures" tend to be EVERYBODY failures here, so no use in personalize it. Constructive criticism is a step towards the truth.
as for Muller design he used strong neos in odd/even config just for eliminating the cogging. Muller machine is indeed generator that why he used the odd/even config.

SSG is a motor. Bedini claims is an energizer. Obviously charges batteries hence energizer. Nevertheless works and is a pulse motor. So the cogging effect is not so obvious in SSG setup anyway. And a very effient one. The 8000 rpm has almost no meaning. In a excellent constructed device, this could have been 30000 rpm. The energy In vs Out matters plus work done.

And by the way, just for the record, the results that i have been expecting was free energy out. No such luck.
On the other hand perhaps i think too much conventionally. In any case i have not witnessed much unconventional things going on.

..........
Finally i want to believe... but my only problem is the thing what i have to believe must be real. Noones word taken for granted. Personally I do not believe in any religion neither i recognize easily athorities without evidence.

and i beg to be exscused for my term toy. A toy free energy machine is the one that outputs miliwatts or even watts. The serious free energy machine is the one that output kilowatts according to my perverted thinking.
unfortunately, we are unable to have even "toys" so far.

In any case, Seph is a great experimenter and craftman. i aknowledge that. as you Ren. But questioning as my wise Ancient Greeks have said it well, is the begging of knowledge. Question everything. I personally question as much the contemporary science theories as Bedini's theories. That does not necessarily means Bedini could not have achieved OU. Hence i persist with this odd technology and ambiguous teachings.

Having said all that, i wish not to be taken as outcast. This forum is not a Bedini worship temple. Perhaps my language sometimes is harsh, but that is a part of my character and trying to improve. :p

finally, yes the possibilities are endless in our universe, but here we explore certain techologies with specific outlines and expect more or less claimed outputs.

Baroutologos

"Perhaps my language sometimes is harsh"

Then you should have no problem with me stating this:

When someone says "Free energy" does not exist, it does not upset me, the person in question is basically just saying he have not studied sufficiently, and don't have the skills to build a device.

"Finally i want to believe... but my only problem is the thing what i have to believe must be real. Noones word taken for granted."

What about this quote from one of the American military complex companies:

News from 2003, I have just checked the link, it still works today:

Sandia Labs Accomplishments 2003 (http://www.sandia.gov/LabNews/LN03-07-03/LA2003/la03/emerging_story.htm)

Sandia's directed-energy group has successfully developed a highly compact high-voltage pulser capable of powering various directed-energy loads. The design uses Sandia's pulsed power experience and combines a battery-driven power supply and Marx generator in producing its output pulse. This development effort has resulted in a battery-driven pulser capable of delivering a 30 GW drive to a load. This extremely compact, lightweight, and rugged approach will enable many future directed-energy systems that require portable high-power drivers.

30GW = 30.000.000.000W

Do you really think this is basic textbook off the shelf technology, "extremely compact, lightweight, and rugged" ?

I remember a statement from a video, that the military has many machines "running on time".

More building and less talking (posting) criticism would be appropriate IMHO, as reading non-constructive posts is just waste of our time.

For some that may even be the purpose of posting here.

Eric

Sephiroth
11-08-2009, 02:17 PM
"Perhaps my language sometimes is harsh"

Then you should have no problem with me stating this:

When someone says "Free energy" does not exist, it does not upset me, the person in question is basically just saying he have not studied sufficiently, and don't have the skills to build a device.

"Finally i want to believe... but my only problem is the thing what i have to believe must be real. Noones word taken for granted."

What about this quote from one of the American military complex companies:

News from 2003, I have just checked the link, it still works today:

Sandia Labs Accomplishments 2003 (http://www.sandia.gov/LabNews/LN03-07-03/LA2003/la03/emerging_story.htm)



30GW = 30.000.000.000W

Do you really think this is basic textbook off the shelf technology, "extremely compact, lightweight, and rugged" ?

I remember a statement from a video, that the military has many machines "running on time".

More building and less talking (posting) criticism would be appropriate IMHO, as reading non-constructive posts is just waste of our time.

For some that may even be the purpose of posting here.

Eric

Interesting stuff :thinking:

I wonder how long it will take them to get trains to "run on time" :rofl: sorry... couldn't resist!

Tecstatic
11-08-2009, 03:42 PM
Interesting stuff :thinking:

I wonder how long it will take them to get trains to "run on time" :rofl: sorry... couldn't resist!

No problem. I guess one of the most difficult devices to build "run on time " --- is a train :rofl:

I like your footer, it nails the discussion spot on. :thumbsup:

Eric

ren
11-08-2009, 08:08 PM
"Perhaps my language sometimes is harsh"

Then you should have no problem with me stating this:

When someone says "Free energy" does not exist, it does not upset me, the person in question is basically just saying he have not studied sufficiently, and don't have the skills to build a device.

"Finally i want to believe... but my only problem is the thing what i have to believe must be real. Noones word taken for granted."

What about this quote from one of the American military complex companies:

News from 2003, I have just checked the link, it still works today:

Sandia Labs Accomplishments 2003 (http://www.sandia.gov/LabNews/LN03-07-03/LA2003/la03/emerging_story.htm)



30GW = 30.000.000.000W

Do you really think this is basic textbook off the shelf technology, "extremely compact, lightweight, and rugged" ?

I remember a statement from a video, that the military has many machines "running on time".

More building and less talking (posting) criticism would be appropriate IMHO, as reading non-constructive posts is just waste of our time.

For some that may even be the purpose of posting here.

Eric

Nice Eric:)

The trains are half way there I reckon. They are already electric, just need some Ed Gray gear, dedicate the drivers cart to be the capacitor/s and dumps some serious voltage through the motor:cheers:

The voltage and amperage they are pushing into those things should be being pushed through a transformer first:rofl:

nvisser
11-09-2009, 08:59 PM
This post of mine on another thread will be more appropriate here as it has to do with generator coils.
Redeagle
If I understood you correct I see the setup you explained as follows:
Say your generator coils generates a 16v ac sine wave.
You connect the ac through a full bridge to a capacitor of about 470uf.
The cap will charge up to about 22v or somewhere above 16 v dc where it peaks and its resistance is high relative to the 16v power source.
At that point there is no "positive" current flow from the generator and there is no drag.
Now if you short the coil very fast at TDC or (30 deg after TDC as some says), the spikes that are created will charge the cap very fast to a higher voltage of who knows where to. Still no "positive" current flow
If I now discharge the cap to a 24v battery when the cap reach say 48v, with a scr trigger circuit, the cap will immediately discharge to the battery to the current battery level of say 23v and than start to charge again to the 48v level.
Never reaching the the 16v level again and so not creating drag again.

Maybe this is the way to match impedance or match load to source that they talk about

This is a lot like the method where they tap the resonance with a diode plug and a scr trigger circuit to not kill the resonance. (Hector Perez)

baroutologos
11-09-2009, 09:23 PM
@Nvisser, regarding plain resonance.

Nice in concept but poor in practice. I have bitter experience with resonance, cap, and scr discharging to battery. I have played around with two bank caps, full diode plug circuits (adjustable volatge lvl discharging etc).

I can assure you that no magic there. At least in my setup.

Shorting coils and pulsing caps is another story by itself i suppose. Never managed to make it effectively so as to study its behaviour. By the way, that setup is quite easy to make i suppose. It can be fitted to a standard SSG wheel.

baroutologos

sinergicus
03-19-2010, 09:18 PM
I found this
G-Field V1.1 Test Report (http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/gfield.htm)
.

ashtweth
06-17-2010, 04:43 AM
Guys have invited him to join this forum

Ash

YouTube - test1.AVI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-V494eLfI4&feature=player_embedded)
YouTube - test1.AVI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-V494eLfI4&feature=player_embedded)

redrichie
06-17-2010, 12:04 PM
Well it looks as if bedini is not telling tales (for you sceptics about his "cloak and dagger" stories) about the big Watson machine. That deivice definately does "something" to those batteries. cant wait to see more.

Zooty
06-17-2010, 06:48 PM
Just a quick not on the so called cogging with magnets passing the core material. If the coil is open circuit during the pass, the net drag is zero although cogging is visible. Remember, the magnet is drawn to the core by the same amount of force on its way in as it pulled back on its way out. Please correct me if i am wrong.

Mark
06-17-2010, 07:15 PM
Hi Zooty

I've heard that before too but I don't believe it. If that was the case then why does a Bedini rotor always stop when the magnet is lined up with a coil core. Take the coils off and give a light spin and the rotor spins numerous rotations but with the coils mounted stops and "locks" up on the coil cores.

Mark

SkyWatcher
06-18-2010, 01:10 AM
Hi folks, I'm replying about the cogging issue, since the device i'm playing with has cogging, but it's fairly low. It's in the bloch wall shifting gen. thread and the device has bolts on the rotor that pass between coil/cores which have bolts for cores and neo magnet stacks at back of coil/cores, neo's oriented in attraction. Magnets oriented to attract, it stops fairly quickly, take the magnets off and it spins much longer, orient the magnets so they repel and it spins almost as long as without any magnets. It could be eddy currents or something causing the slow down or cogging drag, just like having a heavy gauge one turn coil.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:

Zooty
06-18-2010, 01:39 AM
Hi Zooty

I've heard that before too but I don't believe it. If that was the case then why does a Bedini rotor always stop when the magnet is lined up with a coil core. Take the coils off and give a light spin and the rotor spins numerous rotations but with the coils mounted stops and "locks" up on the coil cores.

Mark

Ok, take in to account that the rotor does not come to a dead stop but it rocks back and forth for a quiet a while before it eventually stops.

citfta
06-18-2010, 09:48 AM
Sorry Zooty but your theory doesn't hold up in the real world. I agree it sounds reasonable, but actual experience proves otherwise. My Bedini SSG will only rock back and forth a few times before it comes to a dead stop. If you join the Yahoo Monopole motor 3 group the instructions are very clear that you have to remove the coil before trying to measure the free wheel time of your build. My estimation is the wheel will only spin about 1/4 as long with the coil in place as it will without the coil. This is based on actual observation. Maybe if you built a wheel and magnet assembly and mounted a coil with core near it you could come up with an explanation.

Carroll

Zooty
06-18-2010, 06:12 PM
I have built a few and yes you are right, it's not as free running with the coils in place but the time it takes for the motion to stop is not that far off and like SkyWatcher says, eddy currents may be responsible for the rest. By the way, don't misunderstand me, i am not trying to force my theories down any ones throat, it's just observations i have made during experiments. Another factor may be added friction on the bearing as the magnets are pulled towards the cores especially on one coil setups. One way to put this debate to sleep is to drive the wheel with a DC motor and measure current draw with and without the cores. I agree, it will not be as efficient with the cores in place but can we really assume that the magnetic attraction in one direction is stronger than the other? I personally do not think so.

SkyWatcher
06-18-2010, 08:45 PM
Hi folks, I think you may be correct zooty
but can we really assume that the magnetic attraction in one direction is stronger than the other
but like i said, i think it's probably like those eddy current heaters using thick aluminum plates. However in this case its a piece of ferromagnetic material that still repels a little bit on approach and pulls back a little bit on departure and as rpm's increase becomes stronger. Now this can be helped to a degree with a heavier mass for rotation. Maybe a ferromagnetic material that has a high resistance to electrical flow might reduce this and would be a good experiment to see if eddy currents are part of the cause.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:

Turion
06-22-2010, 03:47 PM
So this thread was started, but as far as I can tell, no one built a Watson device. Or if they did, they aren't cluing us in on their failures or successes. I am in the process of building one now also. Just waiting for my motor to get here, which might take up to two weeks. Finding a motor that uses brushes, was series wound with both the stator and rotor wound was a challenge. The rest I have built and am waiting for the motor to assemble it all. I will post pictures and results here.

Just some info I wanted to share.... I cut my rotors out of 1/2 inch plastic that cutting boards are made out of. I drill a center hole (1/2 inch) on my drill press and then put the rotors onto my bench grinder in place of one of the grinding wheels. It has a 1/2 inch shaft, which is why I use shafts of that size in my builds. Then I can spin the rotors at 3600 rpm and use a file and sand paper to make sure they are perfectly round. I finished a pair tonight, and two is all I have room for on the grinder at one time. When I shut off the grinder I watched the two rotors slow down and stop. Then I put on two new rotors which were really roughly cut out and not very round at all. They made a heck of a racket when I turned the grinder on because they made it so out of balance. So I shut the grinder down to see if I could cut them out a little better on my scroll saw. It took FOREVER for the out of balance disks to stop spinning. So I started up the grinder again and timed how long it took for the rough disks to stop spinning after I hit the off switch. Then I put on the two round rotors I had completely finished and tried the same thing with them. As you might have guessed, the out of balance rotors kept going long after the perfectly round rotors had quit.

Some people wonder why this device has a flywheel. There I believe is the answer. The pulsing motor plus the flywheel act like my "out of balance" grinder and provide that kenetic energy boost.

Are any of you following Gary Stanley's motor where he uses two coils to negate Lenz effect? Very interesting stuff, and I will be using that setup in my build of this project.

My design won't be exactly like the Watson Machine in the FEG book. I will have rotor/4coils/rotor-rotor/4coils/rotor-rotor/4coilsSo/rotor-rotor/4coils/rotor. All of this is so my shaft will have some weight on it, so that when it gets moving it will keep moving!!! So mine will have 16 coils and six rotors. Should be fun.

Turion
07-30-2010, 05:01 AM
Here is my build in its first stage. I decided to change my design some. Magnets at the outside edges of my rotors will help to achieve the flywheel effect I am looking for. Instead of having my coils between my rotors, I have them pointing toward the rotors from the outside, so magnets are only interacting with one end of the coil instead of both ends like I had planned at first. My shaft is twice as long as what appears in the picture, so I can add more rotors or the Gary Stanley motor to drive it. There are only eight coils in the picture. The other eight will get added tomorrow or possibly Monday. I have a 12 volt series wound (wound rotor and stator) electric motor with a 1/2 inch shaft ordered, and am waiting for it to arrive. I will use it or the Gary Stanley motor to drive this device. I am going to try both, PLUS another 12 volt electric motor I have. Lots of things to try.

For right now I intend to power it by using the simple motor circuit that Matthew Jones uses in his video. You can find Matt.s video on YouTube at YouTube - Simple Motor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnBPEPhqcI8)
There will be one circuit for each coil with a spark gap and a cam to open and close points providing electricity and the back EMF to charge batteries. 16 of those circuits. Matt, if you ever see this, if you look at my picture, the magnets on each rotor are staggered, so that they all fire at different times and there isn't as much opportunity to "lock up" the shaft. I am thinking about using the back emf from one rotor to power the next set of coils, which powers the next, which powers the next, and finally dumping the last one to a battery. It's just one of the things on my list to try. Don't even know if it will work. The first step is to get each rotor to work BY ITSELF to turn the shaft, then run them all at once and see what happens. THEN start playing around..

First step is to get the thing built. Oh, and since it appears this topic has been abandoned by everyone but me, hope somebody gets to see this some day, especially if it actually works. LOL

nvisser
07-30-2010, 06:08 AM
That looks good. Good luck with this one.

Turion
08-25-2010, 11:44 AM
Here's a link to my page in YouTube where I will be posting video of what I am building. I have most of this thing constructed now. I'm working on the timing wheel for my pulse motor and a few other things. Hope to fire it up in the next couple days.

YouTube - 11Turion's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/11Turion#p/a/u/0/X3E5REgqWI4)

Is there anyone else out there who has built one of these things and has it working, or who has tired but couldn't get it to go COP>1???? I'd like to hear your thoughts

Shamus
08-25-2010, 01:44 PM
I've tried to build this thing, but ran into some problems and now my lab work is on hold while I get some personal issues sorted out. But as soon as I can get back to my lab I'll be posting about it. :)

Turion
08-25-2010, 11:52 PM
My startup is going to be delayed. My reed switches don't work and I can't find anyone who sells them locally. The packages had been opened when I bought them at Radio Shack, but I took a chance, since no one else had them. Got my order placed on line, but that could take several days. Meanwhile, winding coils for a Kromrey convertor, which is all I have left to do for THAT build.

SkyWatcher
08-27-2010, 03:58 AM
Hi folks, Hi turion, thought I'd post this again here since its more on topic.
I have replicated the effects that this web page describes.
http://www.totallyamped.net/adams/page10.html
this effect may be used in that watson device. What I found is that when i used a standard steel bolt and wrapped a coil on only half the bolt and rotated magnets past the far end of bolt core away from coil, that just like this guy found, when coil was loaded or short circuited, the motor input was the same as no load freewheeling past cores. Then I decided to put another magnet rotor, just like were doing here, on other side of coil/core which was very close to coil on other side and yet it still maintained the same lentz bending effect and I was able to get much more output that way. Here is a cad pic of the layout that worked well.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:

Turion
08-27-2010, 06:32 AM
That is good stuff SkyWatcher. RIght now I am done with the energizer part of my build, or I would be using that, but I will be replicating it for sure and figuring out how I can incorporate it into my NEXT build. Thanks heaps and bunches.

nvisser
08-27-2010, 07:02 AM
Very useful information Tyson!!

SkyWatcher
08-27-2010, 08:12 AM
Hi nvisser, thanks, it does seem as though it could be a useful effect in a generator setup. I mean most generators are spinning magnets past coil/cores with the exception of maybe Hugh Piggott's Axial Flux Wind Generator. So if were going to be spinning magnets past cores, if we set back the copper coil on a core a distance from the passing magnets, it causes these lentz bending effects and as shown in that cad pic i posted, you can put another magnet rotor on other side right next to coil/core face and the effect is still manifest and with better output. I realize and have said this in past posts, that this is very similar to an effect Bill Muller was using in his setups. And this effect may have been used in the Watson device and with the heavy rotating mass helping to offset the cogging drag of the cores. I'll repost my pic, since I figured out how to post them now.
http://a.imageshack.us/img214/8779/dualrotor2.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/i/dualrotor2.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
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peace love light
Tyson:sun:

SkyWatcher
08-28-2010, 02:32 AM
Hi folks, here is a quote from Ted from another site.
I was doing some fooling around with a coil and a magnet today. I was trying to better understand what happens when a magnet passes by a coil.
This coil happened to be flat and narrow with no core. As the magnet passed by, the current flowed in one direction for the first half of the coil then reversed for the next half. Putting a core in the coil changed these characteristics. Depending how far the core was extended away from the windings, the double direction charge effect was replaced with a single direction charge. The less the magnets interacted with the windings, the more the single charge became apparent. This is because the magnet only polarizes the core in one direction, and this only induces current to flow in one direction through the coil. This made me start thinking about what kind of winding would be best suited for for the least interaction with a passing magnet. Low profile and as far away from the magnet as possible. This rang a bell... Look at the coils in the Watson machine.
Why would he build them long and thin like that? Maybe it's because he's trying to minimize the Lenz effect. Here's how I think it works: As the magnet approaches the core, it starts generating power in the coil. At this point the coil is open so no current is flowing, but the magnetic field and voltage are both growing. When the magnet gets to the center of the core, the connection is made to drain the coils energy. The built up field collapses and current starts to flow out of the coil. This current flows in such a way as to create an opposite polarity in the core. This repels the magnet at best, but more likely prevents current from being drawn from the magnet for a brief period of time, which greatly reduces the Lenz effect. If there were windings close to the magnet, as it pulled away from the core their magnetic field would tend to hold the magnet back. This is why I believe the windings are narrow and long instead of short and fat. Anyway, if you're thinking of building a generator this might be useful to keep in mind.
I have been giving some thought to what happens when a magnet passes a coil as well. I think when say a north magnet approaches and leaves the face of a solenoid coil, that it is always generating a north pole in the coil, it's just that since the geometry of the departing leg of the coil is now flipped 180 degrees in relation to the approaching front coil leg that the induced current or magnets in the coil are spinning in a counter clockwise relation to the passing magnet, which causes the passing magnet to be attracted back to that leg of coil. Where as when the north pole magnet was approaching the front leg of the coil the induced current or magnet spin in that part of the coil is spinning in a clockwise direction which causes repulsion. So now this starts to make more sense and aligns with the thoughts that Ted has voiced. Though it appears that applying external input to the coil to create a magnetic field acts in a different manner compared to a single north pole of a magnet passing by a coil inducing current or magnetic spin in the coil, since the passing magnet is affecting different specific parts and geometric configurations of the coil at any given moment. So it does seem that geometry of design means everything if were trying to make lentz work in our favor. More thoughts to come, let me know what you folks think about this.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:

Turion
08-28-2010, 05:14 AM
I should have my Watson device up and running sometime this week. Everything is done except hooking up two reed switches for the motor that is powering the whole thing, and I had to order those off the internet because Radio Shack doesn't sell them anymore. I got the last two they had and one didn't work.

I am still pondering my wiring for this unit. There is the pulse motor that drives it, which can produce back EMF, and there is the energizer, which obviously puts out power. If the back EMF from the pulse motor is directed to one battery, and the Energizer's charge is directed to the battery that powers the pulse motor, and there is a circuit completed between the two batteries that allow them to equalize when there is no draw down from the system, it might work. I'm using Matt Jones' pulse motor design and his "simple circuit" because it is the most efficient I have seen. Having no experience with reed switches or optos, I am wandering in the dark, with mittens and galoshes on.

Regardless, once that reed switch comes in I will be posting video of the first time I fire it up and what happens. With the rotors, coils, flywheels and frame, it weighs about 70 pounds, so I am not moving it around much.

Turion
08-28-2010, 05:29 AM
Tyson,
All I can say is, if my Watson machine doesn't do what I want it to do, then I think the next step is building new rotors and the kinds of coils you are talking about here, just to see what happens. I have a spare shaft lying around somewhere, and I'm not short on magnets or cutting board material. Just need some empty spools to wind wire, and will probably just make my own. I've got 2 huge spools of #23 and one of #26 so I've got the wire. The only way we're going to find out if these things work is if we quit talking about them and build, build, build. I'm willing to do that. My problem is not knowing how to wire things up when I get it done. I'm pretty good at winding coils and building rotors. I've got that stuff down to a science now. And since I'm not working I've got all day long Monday-Friday to build. The weekends my wife and I are too busy with hiking or biking, but during the week I'm down in my basement all day every day messing with this stuff. So once I fire this up, I'll keep you all posted, and if it doesn't work, why don't we plan on building one as a team. I'll be happy to do the building if I get some advice and help on how to do the wiring, etc. I can post daily to YouTube so everybody can see what is going on.

SkyWatcher
08-28-2010, 07:24 AM
Hi Turion, thanks for the update. If you have the parts as you say and the extra time, you don't have to build more than one or two coil/cores to see the effect and you don't even need 2 rotors to start with to get the effect. Use one rotor with a few magnets and one coil/core with the setback coil on core as shown in that cad pic and you'll see the effect. I used a standard 1/2" diameter steel bolt from hardware store with I think 18 gauge wire on mine and got the effect. Sounds like a good idea, teaming up, though i thought that's what were all doing at this forum, at least that's my intention. Ok, as I was going to do anyway, I will put together my setup again and run some tests to verify the effect again and see what works better or worse. Then again, there's also the ThaneCHeins perepiteia generator that uses high voltage coils to cause a high impedance condition on approach which prevents any current from flowing, so no lentz, then when it reaches tdc impedance lowers causing current to flow and it gives a repulsion kick accelerating rotor. YouTube - ThaneCHeins's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins#p/u/13/L3JVjbXOssQ)
Though his setup definitely needs a certain rpm threshold to be reached to get the effect, where as If I remember correctly, what I'm speaking of does not. Again, that's why I'd have to setup a device again to be sure. But I have a lot of 24 gauge wire and a decent amount of 30 gauge laying around so even experimenting with both types of coil designs would be interesting.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:

nvisser
08-28-2010, 09:41 AM
Hi Turion
The mag alarms sensors they use for doors has got read switches in. They are usually normally closed but here by us you also get the normally open mags and they are dirt cheap from the security supply companies

Turion
08-28-2010, 11:14 AM
Tyson,
I viewed the link you posted. I have a problem with it in that it requires high voltage to operate and I have enough trouble with low voltage systems. That's why your idea interests me so much. The Watson device didn't need high voltage to work, and that's what we're looking to duplicate. We have been told by John Bedini that the Watson device works, the Kromrey device works, and a couple others. All low voltage power sources. We need to build them and share them. In all this time why have there been no successful replications of these two devices by people who are willing to get on the net and walk the rest of us through them step by step? If they're scared of big brother, go to the freaking local library, log in on THEIR computer and dump all the instructions onto one of the forums for the rest of us to follow. There are a lot of hard working people here who would bust ass to try and replicate something, especially something as simple as the Watson device or Kromrey converter, and yet if there are people who have replicated these things, they aren't sharing. To me, that's a crime. A real crime as foul as murder. Keeping back that kind of info and watching the world spiral into madness where the large corporations control everything and people the world over are dying for lack of simple services that free electricity would provide is just wrong at the most basic level. Sitting around while we endlessly pollute the planet to death in the hopes of making a few bucks off their invention is insane, when they would be wealthy beyond measure if they were known as the person who changed the course of human history.

Sorry. At 3:30 in the morning when I have spent the last 19 hours working in this stuff in my basement, I tend to get on my high horse and ride.

I sincerely appreciate that people like Bedini have given us what they have, and I understand that he wants us to learn the principles behind it so we can figure it out for ourselves. But that isn't enough as far as I am concerned. Not when people are suffering and the planet is dying. If I had the answer and could teach others exactly how to do it, I don't know if I could look myself in the mirror knowing that I wasn't doing everything in my power to help people understand how to do this. It's like standing with a fire hose in your hand and watching the children in the house next door burn. Some people seem to be able to do that. Not me.

So I will build. And if what I have done is not successful, I will build again. And I will keep on building until I am too old to hold a soldering iron.

Nvisser, thanks for that info. I will check that out on Monday. I ordered a bunch of reed switches and they should be here any day now, but it's nice to be able to hop in the car and go get something you need when you need it rather than waiting.

Hopefully I will have this thing up and running early next week. I may ask for some help with the wiring from some of you Brainiacs out there if I can share some of the circuit I am using for my pulse motor. It's not mine, and although it has already been posted other places, I always ask before I post someone elses work, and I want to make sure they get the credit. If I post it here, my problem is combining the pulse motor circuit with the 32 wires from the sixteen coils, and how that should all be wired together.

SkyWatcher
08-28-2010, 11:33 AM
Hi Turion, I understand your frustration , though all we can change ultimately, is ourselves. I'm not sure what your understanding is of Thanes perepiteia generator the rotating device, but the coils generate higher voltage, not like tesla coil voltages, as you can see he used a typical transformer to step it down. All these devices are inter-related so it may help if we all can understand whats happening in them to make better mouse traps. Though, i have yet to build a design like thanes and I know the coil setback idea does work and can use lower resistance coils, so it may be the way to go. Also, by the way I seem to recall that Watson did use a fairly higher voltage pulse from capacitors dumping into his drive battery.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:

Turion
08-29-2010, 04:29 AM
Yeah, the voltage spike off that many coils is probably rather high.

I got my reed switches in the mail today, so will be starting up my Watson device sometime Monday morning. I will video and post it.

Matt Jones has helped me with a dual coil motor and a simple circuit that he has used in the past and I have replicated. I will use this pulse motor and Matt's circuit to drive my Watson device. I will have this circuit plus the 32 wires from the 16 coils on the energizer. Anybody have any suggestions how to wire it all together? I've got a capacitor bank and seven or eight deep cell lead acid batteries I can throw into the mix.

SkyWatcher
08-29-2010, 05:16 AM
Hi folks, Hi Turion, sounds good, I would wire the coils based on how much current you need to fill caps at the rate you need to keep up with the frequency of the output pulses from the cap back to the drive battery and the voltage you want. Though if you start paralleling any coils, understand they have to be matched fairly well or it will slow the rotor a bit. I was playing with my stanley motor today using as generator before i took the rotors off to use on the lentz bending generator and i used a full wave bridge into a 2400uf-450v cap and intermittently discharged cap into a 12v gel cell and of course it threw a load on the rotor, while cap climbed back up. Even the heavy weight shown in the Watson device, I don't think that would fully offset that lentz breaking, though really helps a lot for cogging drag and as Ted was saying those long and low profile coils probably gave some kind of lentz bending effect also and that is probably why Bedini says it works.
edit: oh and i look forward to seeing how it works out.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:

Turion
08-29-2010, 06:27 PM
Yeah, four of the coils fire at once out of the sixteen. I may have to increase the number of coils on my motor to overcome the effect of the coils on my energizer. And if that doesn't work, change to the kind of coils you've been talking about with the longer core. I'm going to start winding those kind of coils right now, since that's something I want to experiment with anyway.

To get more coils around a rotor, I thought of swapping ends with every other coil. As long as there is an even number, it would let me pack them together tighter, as long as the core that sticks out is longer than the coil. That requires two timing wheels instead of one, so it may not be worth it.

I have also heard that if you piggyback a coil on the same core you get the benefit without the lenz effect, or alt least without as much. It seems like every day we learn something new, and need to keep revising what we have until we get the best possible working device.

SkyWatcher
08-30-2010, 11:48 PM
Hi folks, ok, it took me awhile to dig up all my pulleys and belts to link my motor to the lentz bending generator. I am getting the lentz bending effect and the system is speeding up as well with the associated drop in input current. I am using the 2 dual rotor 12 magnets per rotor and magnets on rotors are in alternating polarity configuration and I started with just one coil and the coil is on a 1/2" diameter steel bolt using 24 gauge magnet wire at around 7.2 ohms for the single coil. There is no mistake, the rotor is audibly accelerating, then levels out and the input drops over 1/2 an amp. First test was made with coil shorted, which is full load. Here is a pic of the setup.
http://a.imageshack.us/img26/2116/lentzbendinggeneratorse.jpg (http://img26.imageshack.us/i/lentzbendinggeneratorse.jpg/)

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peace love light
Tyson:beamup: :rainbow:

Turion
08-31-2010, 04:21 AM
Tyson,
What is the schematic for the wiring you are using to run this? I assume it is a 12 volt motor as your power. Are you using one battery or two? How is it all wired together? I have a 12 volt motor I bought for the exact same purpose, but have been trying to drive the generator with a pulse motor since I haven't been able to find a 12 volt motor with wound rotor and stator, and I don't want the off time "drag" that a permanent magnet motor has.

I tried to fire it up today since all my parts finally came in, but I could not get it to run. I need to go back and check all my wiring again to make sure all my circuits are complete.

SkyWatcher
08-31-2010, 05:15 AM
Hi Turion, that is a 120vdc treadmill motor from surplus shop and I used one 12volt gel cell with the pulley ratios shown in pic to give more rpm's at rotor. I used a multimeter connected between drive motor and battery and measured around 3.5 amps no-load and I simply shorted the one generator coil and that's when the motor speed increased and input dropped to around 3 amps. Though yes, this treadmill motor has magnet stators and would have extra drag. The motor shown is rated at 4800rpm at 120volts. I think this generator is functioning like thanes in some way and would good for the Watson device. Going to run more tests tomorrow, what you think.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:

nvisser
08-31-2010, 07:02 AM
Do you drive the 120V dc motor with 12v dc only?

SkyWatcher
08-31-2010, 07:13 AM
Hi nvisser, yes For that first test I used 1 - 12volt battery and used the pulley ratios to up the speed a bit. It seems to work better with the alternating magnet poles compared to before when i tested with all same poles out on each rotor and the spacing of magnets is much closer on these rotors cause they can be.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:
edit: the pulley ratio in that test was 1:2 so at 12volts it should be around 480 rpm times 2= around 1000rpm

Turion
08-31-2010, 02:43 PM
Tyson, did you mention the diameter of your neos? For some reason I thought they were 1". Maybe from something you said earlier. I'm getting ready to duplicate what you did, and I will also be trying a slight variation. I want to use the solid 1/2" bolt as my steel core as you did with my 1" neos, then try a standard core (1")of welding rods at and see if there is a difference.

I know it's picky when something appears to be work, but somehow I think it's all those picky little differences that add up to a successful device, and for all I know, the solid steel core may be BETTER and I've been wasting all this time cutting welding rods into lengths. If that turns out to be the case, is there a difference between a half inch bolt and 3/4 or even a 1" steel rod. Will try all three.

nvisser
08-31-2010, 04:34 PM
Why don't you guys use the hollow steel wall anchor plug like in the files that Skywatcher posted?
Solid steel will retain magnetism and cause eddy currents that gives losses.

SkyWatcher
08-31-2010, 08:59 PM
Hi Turion, the neo magnets are 1" diameter, Hi, I have many tests I'm going to be making and that may be one of them also, those anchor cores or something similar.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:

SkyWatcher
08-31-2010, 09:14 PM
Also, my rotors have the 12 magnets at 5-1/4" diameter centers or from center of shaft a radius of 2-5/8" to center of magnet. Though, yes reducing core losses is of importance with this setup as nvisser is saying. And the magnets are 3/8" depth stacks each.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:

SkyWatcher
08-31-2010, 09:45 PM
Hi folks, just made another test. I only used 1 rotor in this test and it was the rotor directly next to the coil, or as shown in the pic, the rotor on the left and it still accelerated under short circuit, though not as dramatic since less field strength without other rotor. So it must be the close alternating magnet pattern on rotor that is working more like thanes generator now. I'm not even sure the core needs to be longer or protruding on one end or not the way its setup now. I was thinking about those wall anchors for cores, those look like they would be hard to mount, any ideas. will be making a few more tests.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:

Turion
09-01-2010, 12:36 AM
Tyson,
I was thinking of steel pipe like they use for gas lines. It can be bought in different lengths at the hardware store, and there are different fittings for it. That would give a hollow core that is made of steel, but with threads on one or both ends so it could be secured to something quite easily. It also comes in a variety of different lengths already threaded for do-it-yourself plumbers like me. I was thinking of getting a couple pieces, winding my coils on them, and experimenting with moving a core made of welding rods in and out of the pipe, possibly filling a short distance of the pipe right in front of the magnet, but leaving the rest of the pipe hollow, especially the part the coil is wrapped around. I am tied up tomorrow finishing my Kromrey Converter, but then I will be devoting all my time to finishing up my Watson device. I will basically be tearing what I have apart to implement all the changes that have been talked about here.

SkyWatcher
09-01-2010, 05:34 AM
Hi Turion, thanks for the idea, though I had thought about using plumbing pipe knowing it has threads on end. I'm not sure what the remnance differences are between those 2 metals. Though high electrical resistance in core and low remnance are probably what we would like. Though again, that's what I think the heavy flywheel weights are for, is to store as much motion as possible from the magnet attraction to core so as to get as close as possible to balancing the approach and depart of magnet to core interactions. I mean of course the small losses in cores don't help matters, but can you imagine if the rotors were light as a feather, the rotor would stop dead and lock up since such a light rotor has no inertial storage properties being so light. So that is why we see a huge flywheel in Watson's device, I think.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:

SkyWatcher
09-08-2010, 06:17 AM
Hi folks, Hi Turion, how is your setup coming along, I seem to recall you were trying the setback coil lentz bending idea or similar. Hope its going well, I'm going to try a few different setups myself.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:

Turion
09-10-2010, 01:39 AM
Tyson,
I have everything built but the motor to power the whole thing. I have tried three different times to come up with a motor that has a wound rotor and wound stator, Which is what Peter L. says you need to use, but have not been able to find one with a half inch shaft like I want. It is ticking me off!!!! I was going to use the Gary Stanley motor to run it, or the Matt Jones motor, if I couldn't find one, and have been at work building BOTH, plus a Kromrey converter, so my days are really full. If anybody knows where I can buy a motor with wound rotor and stator with a 1/2 inch shaft, please let me know! My credit card is itching to buy one!!!

YouTube - 11Turion's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/11Turion#p/a/u/0/X3E5REgqWI4)

SkyWatcher
09-11-2010, 02:54 AM
Hi Turion, thanks for the post, really good work on your Watson setup. I hope it does what you hope. I would use the stanley type air core dual rotor motor if it's not too much extra work, seeing how much effort you've put into this setup, I really hope it yields something of value if not learning for sure. I have an idea that came to mind, while laying in bed, for a generator setup. I'm going to place one of those steel saw blades on one side of my 12 magnet alternating pole rotor and then place a magnet at back of my coil/core to see how it generates, in hopes of getting less drag. Also I want to pulse the coil as a motor to see how that works, since it might be similar to the Kawai motor in function. Anyway, great work.
peace love light
Tyson:sun:

john_g
09-28-2010, 05:31 PM
Tyson,
I have everything built but the motor to power the whole thing. I have tried three different times to come up with a motor that has a wound rotor and wound stator, Which is what Peter L. says you need to use, but have not been able to find one with a half inch shaft like I want. It is ticking me off!!!! I was going to use the Gary Stanley motor to run it, or the Matt Jones motor, if I couldn't find one, and have been at work building BOTH, plus a Kromrey converter, so my days are really full. If anybody knows where I can buy a motor with wound rotor and stator with a 1/2 inch shaft, please let me know! My credit card is itching to buy one!!!

YouTube - 11Turion's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/11Turion#p/a/u/0/X3E5REgqWI4)

Hi Turion
What about using say a VW beetle dynamo and run it as a motor? It has wound fields and about 1/2 shaft. I got an old one the other day but one of the brushes is missing so haven't tried it.

Regards

John

patmac
09-29-2010, 06:38 PM
@everybody

I'm building a Sine wave generator (like FEG book), here scope shot of my generator.

Bedini talk ever about ideal waveform to create self recharging effect.

The shot was taken while charing a 12 volts battery with 1 ohmio resistor in series, scopes probes was connected on 1ohm resistor. Waveform seems correct, my Generator sends the waveform half sine while is being rectified with FULL WAVE rectifier (four diode bridge). So the most important here magnetic field drag keep the waveform rectified with LOAD connected.

Turion
10-01-2010, 05:54 AM
That's a great idea John. I will have to look into that. I will be searching junk yards starting tomorrow!

Right now I will be using Matt Jones' simple Motor to drive the device. I built a stand alone unit and Matt has been helping me to get it running correctly, although I still have a ways to go on that score. I took it apart this afternoon and am in the process of assembling it on the shaft of my Watson device. I have two coils, but I am thinking of waiting until the wire I ordered comes in so I can wind my coils like Matt said I should have in the first place. So hopefully in the next few days I will have it running. I have the motor on the shaft already and all I have to do is bolt down the coils and it will be ready to wire up and give it a go. Probably sometime early next week depending on when my wire gets here. I may need three or more coils to move the amount of weight I have on my shaft, although once you get it going it goes great.

sinergicus
10-01-2010, 08:16 PM
Hi guys ;I am interested too in building an Watson Machine;or some improved variant of this


I am working on my version of Ossie Callanan radiant energy circuit, with big red switch that I made my self ....no need big fly well like in jim watson unit, no need energizer;The power coils in conjunction with red switch will oscillate
like in Ossie Callanan circuit and so, will vary the impedance very many times per second and this will bring radiant energy in circuit to be collected more efficient...also, at the shaft you can put an auxiliary energizer or lenz less generator like in totalyamped site ...this will be in the same time an flywheel
if you want. http://www.totallyamped.net/adams/ SkyWatcher had mentioned this already .
at page 10 ;simple coil design lenz less drag , with explanations... practical stuff not just theoretical ;seems this guy had tried all this and the coils design
is working...

Instead an second battery to be charged, I am using an capacitor (1000 microfarad at 200 volts to be timed and dumped back in primary battery like in Jim Watson unit,using an relay at 12 volts ...

My problem is:my relay contacts will weld when that cap is discharged across my 45 amp our 12 v car battery (the battery is disconnected from the circuit in that moment)
I am not fully charging the cap;just at around 100 volts...

My relay what I have is double pole double throw with 2 moving arms with 2 contacts each arm (like common double pole double throw relay ).So we have 4 moving contacts on 2 moving arms( 2+2).So is a many contacts relay or an DOUBLE double pole double throw so to speak...

I connected these contacts in parallel to have bigger surface area to dissipate the condenser energy (4 mm diameter each contact ,in parallel will have 8 mm diameter surface to reducing the charge on every contact .The no moving contacts are connected the same in parallel.

The relay is activated ,at every 4-5 second to dump the charge...

How I say , in spite of the bigger surface area of the contacts one or other will weld....

What Kind of relay Jim Watson was used ?

How to eliminate this problem?In what kind of industry must search to find the proper relay to be resistant and not weld...

Mike

nvisser
10-01-2010, 08:37 PM
You could use an scr triggered by the relay or commutator.
Just replace the ne2 with your switch

john_g
10-01-2010, 09:25 PM
That's a great idea John. I will have to look into that. I will be searching junk yards starting tomorrow!

Right now I will be using Matt Jones' simple Motor to drive the device. I built a stand alone unit and Matt has been helping me to get it running correctly, although I still have a ways to go on that score. I took it apart this afternoon and am in the process of assembling it on the shaft of my Watson device. I have two coils, but I am thinking of waiting until the wire I ordered comes in so I can wind my coils like Matt said I should have in the first place. So hopefully in the next few days I will have it running. I have the motor on the shaft already and all I have to do is bolt down the coils and it will be ready to wire up and give it a go. Probably sometime early next week depending on when my wire gets here. I may need three or more coils to move the amount of weight I have on my shaft, although once you get it going it goes great.

Turion

If your card is still itching you could go here:

VW BEETLE T1 CAMPER / TRANSPORTER 30 AMP DYNAMO (NEW) on eBay (end time 21-Oct-10 09:32:43 BST) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-BEETLE-T1-CAMPER-TRANSPORTER-30-AMP-DYNAMO-NEW-/170543192580?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item27b52a9a04)

Regards
John

sinergicus
10-02-2010, 07:38 AM
You could use an scr triggered by the relay or commutator.
Just replace the ne2 with your switch

Thank you for your suggestion;I thought about this .I suppose the scr must be an high amp scr .The discharging the 1000 microfarad 200 v cap (at 100 V) across the battery is very powerful and the amperage going through scr will attain big value...and the high amp scr is very expensive (for me)

I don,t have too much experience in electronics;maybe you can give me some
specs about this kind of scr's and some models we can find on the market..

Thanks
Mike

nvisser
10-02-2010, 08:25 AM
Try TYN612. They are very cheap.
Go google the datasheet. It will give you the pinouts. It is spec. 600V , 12A. If you pulse it , it will handle much higher current.
It is maybe not such a good idea to pulse 100V to a 12V battery.
I would rather use 24V pulses and not go more than 5 x battery voltage(60V) and pulse more frequently between drive motor pulses.
This is all speculation as I am still working on something similar but has not finished and tested it yet.

Turion
10-04-2010, 11:00 AM
John,
Thanks for the link! I tried to buy it on E-Bay but the seller had something set up wrong and I was unable to. The good news is it gave me all the specs so I can find one for sale elsewhere.

Meanwhile, I will use the motor that Matt helped me build that runs on a circuit of his design. If it is not as successful as I'd like, that's ok, because I have the right size wire coming and will be building new coils for it as soon as the wire gets here. Hopefully I'll then be able to duplicate Matt's results.

I got my reed switches in the mail Saturday, so today I will be firing up my Watson device for the first time. I am not quite sure how to wire all my coils, but am going to connect them straight to the charge battery and see what happens. Hopefully nothing goes boom. I will have a gauge on the battery to monitor voltage so I don't overcharge with the sixteen coils I will have firing. If that doesn't seem to work I will hook them to a capacitor bank and then through a bridge rectifier to my charge battery. I will post video on my YouTube channel later today and post a link here. Will keep you all updated on the test results.

For those who are interested, here are a few links for parts and things.
TAP plastics here in California has nice plastic rotors already cut to a variety of different sizes.
Plastic Circles: TAP Plastics (http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=140&)

Applied magnets has neos with countersunk holes which makes it easy to bolt them in place rather than using glue, which also means easy to get apart to use for a different project when you want to. They also carry wire in every size you might need
cPath_1_11 | products_id_605 | Neodymium Magnets 1 in x 1/4 in w/Dual Sided Countersunk Hole Disc - Applied Magnets & WindMax Wind Turbines (http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_11&products_id=605)

All electronics has almost everything else you can think of in the way of parts to build whatever it is you're trying to build
All Electronics | Electronic and Electro-Mechanical Parts and Supplies at Discount Prices (http://www.allelectronics.com/index.php)

If you need aluminum brackets to support your bearings, here is a place where you can order lengths of "L" shaped bracket material as short as one foot, and then cut it into smaller pieces with your trusty hack saw.
http://www.metalsdepot.com/products/alum2.phtml?page=sangle&LimAcc=$LimAcc






You can either ask questions and look stupid or keep quiet and remain stupid.

nvisser
10-05-2010, 12:39 PM
Hi Turion
What about using say a VW beetle dynamo and run it as a motor? It has wound fields and about 1/2 shaft. I got an old one the other day but one of the brushes is missing so haven't tried it.

Regards

John


Some facts about VW beetle dynamos
Electric Vehicles (http://www.angelfire.com/oh/PetesCafe/vwgen.html)

How To Test Your Generator - How to Polarize Your Generator (http://www.chircoestore.com/catalog/smf/index.php?topic=2212.0)

Polarizing Your Generator (http://web.utk.edu/~tprather/FoothillsTractorClub/TechTips/PolarizeGenerator.html)

Turion
10-06-2010, 03:19 AM
Haven't been able to get my motor to power the Watson Device. Don't think I have enough coils to rotate the weight of the device. My wire has come in, so I will be winding more coils tomorrow and maybe then I can get it running. Sorry about that. Only have two coils and getting it properly "tuned" is a little tough when I can't get it running. But tomorrow is another day.

saeed
11-08-2010, 07:23 PM
Dear All
in brief , is there a really free energy or overunity generator working well ?
if yes , is it available in the market ?
best regards

boguslaw
11-08-2010, 10:09 PM
You could use an scr triggered by the relay or commutator.
Just replace the ne2 with your switch

Is this a proved way to discharge for example 1uF/400V cap ? How can I discharge such cap into battery using scr ?