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Michelinho
04-28-2009, 04:21 PM
Hi everyone,

I have been working with my friend on a motor/generator that will have some special concepts incorporated. I mainly do the mechanical design and he does the electronic part, so my description will be on a general basis for the electronic implementation of the drive and coils setup.

The motor has a 1/2" main shaft from welded steel tubing and it is hanging on 1/2" ball bearings. The rotor is 6 1/2" diameter by 6" long with 8 6"X2"X1/2" ceramic grade 8 magnets.

The drive will be from 3 special design coils, matched to the magnet size, as the electronic pulsing circuit is a 3 phases unit using 3 hall effect sensors. The pulses are composed of 2 components, a primary pulse and within that pulse, a second pulsing circuit fills each of those pulses with 3k pulses per sec hash signal. It is very efficient as the tryout on a prototype got us 1,200 rpm from a 24V DC source at 0.137 Amp. The RPM can be adjusted up to 6,000 rpm. It will have 12 to 18 small pickup coils. On initial trials from the prototype, we had an output of 10V AC (Edit: That is 10 V DC, sorry for the mistake) at 0.72 Amp from one identically sized coil. Promising indeed.

I will try to post more pictures as I finalize the first of two identical units.

That is all for now, take care,

Michel

Michelinho
04-28-2009, 06:47 PM
Hi all,

The rotor will be covered with a fiberglass coating to prevent any magnet from flying off, then the rotor will be balanced.

A little more information on the drive circuit (a few will figure out how it works as I only have a vague idea):

Main part numbers:

1X MC33035P CPPAA9934
1X JM830AF LMC6034IN
1X JM830AD LMC6034IN
1X 74HC4066N C8610PS HNN9948 E
2x HM93AL LM 555CN
6X SEC 832 IRF530A
+ a few more small ICs

3 Hall effect sensors mounted around the main shaft will receive the signal from a small magnetic rotor mounted on the main shaft to trigger the Hall Effect sensors.

A little information on the drive coils and output coils:

3 rectangular coils slightly longer and wider than the ceramic magnets. In each of these coils, 3 small rectangular output coils that will capture the magnetic flux from the drive coil and magnet as it passes, giving a higher output, and more standalone small output coils around the stator.

When this is done, I will post a few more pictures.

Take care,

Michel

Michelinho
04-30-2009, 02:00 AM
Hi all,

The fiberglass belt covering the magnets on the rotor is done. Next step will be to balance the rotor and paint it. The electronic was tested on the prototype, the small magnetic rotor for the Hall Effect sensors is drilled to the size of the main shaft and ready to assemble when the time comes.

Take care,

Michel

Mark
04-30-2009, 12:43 PM
Looking good Michel!

Just wondering why you are using ceramic instead of neo's? Are all your magnets north facing out? Also curious where or how you plan on getting your rotor balanced. Thanks and keep up the good work.

Michelinho
04-30-2009, 07:06 PM
Hi Mark,

I use ceramic magnets because at first it was suppose to be a Bedini window motor but after a few tests, some knowledge from early 20th century books and the availability of a high efficiency electronic drive circuit we found a way to improve on the original. Will it be better, we certainly hope so from the prototype we built. Another reason is I think the same as to why Bedini only uses ceramic magnets: neodymium magnets has a diode effect in certain applications or so I was told(true or not, I have not grasp that concept yet).

The first measurements although done with a digital multimeter instead of the oscilloscope show a ratio of 2:1 in output using only one small coil. The drive circuit used around 3.3 watts and one output coil giving about 7.8 watts. Those were rough measurements. The output coil being placed inside the drive coil doubles its output and we can place 3 of those inside each drive coil. So 9 high output coils plus up to 15 low output coils that will be set in the 5 remaining open section of the stator should theoretically improve that ratio.

The drive circuit is special as it give an adaptive composite pulse (pulses inside a pulse). Longer when starting and speeding up and getting shorter until it reaches the maximum rpm speed setting. It is also error correcting. And the best reason, we had 3 for FREE and free is good. They come from scrapped breathing assist machines used in hospitals. The only bad thing we thought it had was the mosfet output section but the heatsink didn't even get warm while driving the prototype.

The magnets are set like the window motor, alternating north and south but we used 8 instead of 6 for the Bedini motor. The rotor will get a static balance, so far I have had good results with that as dynamic balancing is more complex. The rotor being short, static should be fine. So far I get a good balance with 75gr of lead weight added, the rotor weight in at near 9 lb. I was a diesel mechanic first class so I touched everything from tires to full electrical rewiring of heavy haulers. All our wheels were done using a static balancing machine and I used it on many occasions.

If you need more info or have more questions, I will try as best as I can to give precise answers.

Take care,

Michel

Michelinho
05-01-2009, 09:41 PM
Hi everyone,

This post is to present you the prototype on which we based our research for the present built.

The rotor is slightly larger than the one I am building at the moment but does have the same magnets placed in the same configuration and has about the same weight. You can see the drive coils, the large rectangular ones, that come from a few Apple/Sony monitors I took apart, they are the original degauss coils (2 small ones in each monitors). You can also see the output coil we used set inside the drive coil to obtain the measured readings I mentioned in the first post, also comes from those monitors. None of the coils were optimized for the motor.

In the third picture, you see the Hall Effect sensor assembly with the small magnetic rotor to trigger it. You also see the drive circuit, which is the same as the above post but has less functions which are not used for this motor/generator design.

What makes this whole concept efficient is because it is a crossbreed of a Bedini Window motor and a Bedini "Watson" machine. The heavy rotor act as a flywheel, pulse DC motor and the output coils all in one compact unit. If anyone was wondering why we got more out than in, I believe this is the reason plus the output coil being placed inside the drive coil for the extra bursts, 5V DC after rectification placed outside the drive coil, 10V DC after rectification inside the drive coil.

So replication should be pretty straightforward except for the drive circuit. I did not check on the internet but circuit based on the same chips should be readily available.

I'll be back with more pictures and comments as this built progresses.

Take care,

Michel

Michelinho
05-02-2009, 01:10 PM
Hi everyone,

Another update to show the drive coil winder that I just finished. The two spools on the back will be filled with AWG24 magnet wire from the Apple/Sony degauss coils. They will be mounted on a spinning disk to twist the bifilar magnet wire.

They will be 100 turns bifilar and should give about 8 Ohms each compared to the 2.7 Ohms monofilar that was used on the prototype. Measurements for the final drive coils will be 6 1/2" X 3" and will be "V" angled on the 3" sides for mounting on the stator with wire plastic clamps and brass screws.

That's all for now,

Michel

Edit: The output coils will also be bifilar.

Michelinho
05-03-2009, 10:50 AM
Hi everyone,

After making a drive coil winder, I had to build a contraption that would twist the magnet wire for the bifilar coil. I have plenty of wood, some 5/16" threaded rod with nuts, a carriage bolt 1/4" and a nylon lock nut and a piece of 3/8" copper pipe for the handle. This is what came out after a few hours of tinkering. The spool external wood was rubbed with wax and the tension is adjustable with nuts and a little locktite to prevent the tension from easing or tightening.

It is easy to make and quite useful. I can even make it a 4 spool twister if need be. So if you ever need one, save those pictures for model.

You can see the 2 first drive coil made withe the tools made for this project. one is 11.7 Ohms and the other 11.9 Ohms. When all 3 are made, I can unwind a few strands to adjust the load for the drive circuit.

Take care all,

Michel

Mark
05-03-2009, 01:52 PM
Are you sure you want to twist the wires for your coils? My understanding is they don't work as well with a window motor style construction.

Looks good so far!

I would like to build a large window motor also and have been looking for a aluminum car wheels to use as my rotor. I own an automotive repair shop and after mounting the magnets I could balance the assembly on my wheel balancer and mount the wheel on a cheap hub assembly. I need to find the right size wheel so those big 6" magnets will drop down inside the lip of the rim.

Michelinho
05-03-2009, 09:48 PM
Hi Mark,

I don't know if twisting wire would be detrimental to a window motor but the coils on the one I am building is not set as the Bedini Window motor. He uses a single coil that surrounds the entire motor, our coils only surround 1 magnet on the rotor each. They are much smaller and many times more efficient that the Bedini design.

Bedini collects from the drive coil and we collect only from separate output coils (for now)* set inside the perimeter of the drive coil giving twice the output of regularly placed coils. We will also use more coils outside those coils.

Only the rotor is similar to Bedini Window motor, the rest is totaly different.

Take care,

Michel

* We are planning to use the data from the MC33035 chip to pulse drive the motor and then at a certain moment cut the pulse and collect from the drive coils but that is my friend's job to implement. That chip is loaded with data signals we can access. Check the data sheet for that chip, really neat.

Mark
05-03-2009, 11:33 PM
Hi Michel

I think my last SSG was similar to what your making. My coils didn't go around the whole rotor either. I used small trifilar air coils around 2 inches in diameter. Used the sequentail full circuit and the 21194 and 3's My rotor used supper pole configuration. Had good speed of 4500 rpm at .250amp.

I never thought of putting a series of air coils between my drive coil. Good Idea! There are so many ways to play. My next step is to build a huge rotor.
:cheers:

Michelinho
05-06-2009, 12:52 AM
Hi everyone,

The motor/generator is coming along fine, the rotor is balanced and painted, the new motor end plates are done and also the drive coil brackets(dowel). A coat of polymer has been applied and just the timing adjustment to finish before I install the coils, electronic sensors and module.

Here are a few pictures of the current status of the build.

Take care,

Michel

Michelinho
05-06-2009, 11:09 AM
Hi everyone,

Another step is done.

Last night I finished the timing control, installed it and set the Hall Effect module on the timing control. I can vary the timing 120 degrees while the motor is running. I still have to drill the small magnetic rotor and install it on the shaft to pulse the hall effect sensors, set the drive coil, install the connector blocks, connect the wiring and the motor part will be done.

We will test if for a week then add the alternator output coils and retest it for performance.

Some picture of the motor/generator as it stands at this hour.

Take care,

Michel

Mark
05-06-2009, 11:37 AM
Very nice Michel. Can't wait to see some test results, GOOD LUCK! :cheers:

Michelinho
05-06-2009, 11:40 AM
I did the balancing of the rotor. I spin it by hand to about 300 rpm and lift the unit off the table and it does not vibrate. We will see soon how it will react when pushed to 2,500 rpm or more.

Thanks and take care,

Michel

darkwizard
05-07-2009, 04:18 PM
Michelinho you are great, awesome results will come :thumbsup:

Michelinho
05-07-2009, 08:01 PM
Hi all,

Thanks darkwizard.

The small magnetic rotor was drilled to 1/2" from 1/4" and installed. The wiring is done from the coils to terminal block, color coded for polarity of the drive coils. Now it only need to be connected from the terminal block to the Hall Effect sensor module. We will use highly flexible wires for that part, unfortunately the wire are at my friend's place.

Meanwhile I have to make three different output coil jigs and wind the coil(s) for each shape to fit inside the drive coils for further tests. One form is rectangular single coil, the other will be rectangular two coils and the third will be 2 right angle triangles. All coils will have the same length of magnet wire and won't be bifilar for the tests but will be in the final version. The highest output wins.

We will also monitor the drag on the motor from those different shapes by measuring the input pulse size on the scope and also with an ammeter at the input. That will be my friend's work as I have to start building the second unit.

Take care all,

Michel

P.S.: The motor end cap will fit nicely over the Hall Effect sensor circuit.

Michelinho
05-12-2009, 12:32 AM
Hi everyone,

The motor/generator is finally done and away at my friend's place for testing.
As he is still amongst those who have to work, it may take a few weeks before he is done. He also wants to apply a few of his electronic tricks and see just how much he can push the actual output.

So here are the last pictures showing some of the output coils he will be testing. I placed a white sheet of paper on the rotor for the pictures.

Take care all,

Michel

Michelinho
06-04-2009, 08:10 PM
Hi everyone,

My friend brought back the motor/generator after he did a few tests (he is very busy at the moment) and I needed to redo the drive coils as they were the wrong size to get this thing running efficiently and with more torque. It also needed a little re balancing since it was vibrating at 2,100 rpm.

A few pictures of the motor with the new drive coils and cutouts in the bottom plate for a better access to the coils. The initial tests with the new drive coils gave 1,878 rpm and it may still need a few tweaks but after rebalanced, the motor purrs along at 1,850 rpm. The electronic module is feed with 24 Volts. I did not check the current used as my friend will do that with his scope.

So the motor will go back for a few more tests before I make and install the output coils but it works great so far.

Take care,

Michel

P.S.: The timing system works beautifully and it's quite usefull to tweak the firing of the coils.

Mark
06-05-2009, 12:22 PM
Hi Michel

Thanks for the update. It looks like your coils goes over 2 magnets or is that just an opticle illusion?

Looks sweet so far, keep up the good work!

Mark

Michelinho
06-05-2009, 03:20 PM
Hi Mark,

Yes the drive coils cover nearly two magnets but not totaly. When my friend tested the first drive coils covering one magnet, he could not get the motor to run more than 800 rpm. He then proceeded to detach one side of a coil and slowly angle it up to 90 degree from normal and got the motor to rev faster. Then he did the same for the 3 coils and got 1,200 rpm. He brought back the motor and I wound one large coil covering about 2 1/2 magnet spacing and driving with that one coil while bending it to cover less and less, we got 1,500 rpm from that one large coil. That gave us the exact size for the final and actual coils. They seem to work in a push-pull way. I have a small jar with iron shaving and when placed near the spinning magnets (NSNSNSNS configuration) the shaving rotates inside like flipping over themselves. Maybe other Bedini window motor replicators can do the same and see if they get the same results.

Last night after a slight repositioning of the actual large coils, the motor revved to 2,163 rpm. The motor has now a lot more torque and a high spin. My friend will retest it for efficiency and then I will make and install the final output coils. They will be all connect in series to get a high potential/low current and I will then make a bifilar toroid transformer based on Tesla electric distribution design to drop to the usable voltage. The current does slow down a generator, not the voltage and even if we get a lost, the penalty will be minimal compared to normal setup.

Hope this answer your question, take care,

Michel

captainpecan
08-05-2009, 05:05 AM
Any updates yet? I am very interested in seeing how good this generator works. Well, good or bad, lol. But preferably very good!

Michelinho
08-05-2009, 07:11 AM
Hi captainpecan,

Summer is a busy time for all. I have a few of my grand children here for the summer and they keep me busy. My friend is doing the tests and he too has a busy summer but we still meet once a week to discuss our finds.

I am working on the dual rotor motor, one inside the other, also working on a generator based on vibration and preparing the version 2 of the Kohler Magnetstromapparat.

The vibration generator is what I am working on at the moment. The prototype will have 12 dual coil spools fixed to a lower plate and 12 ring magnets floating in the center of those coils suspended from a top plate. That plate will have a magnetic suspension and a motor on the side will rotate a out of balance rotor attached to the top plate. It is based on the windbelt generator principle. That same motor can easily vibrate a large "plateau" containing hundred of magnets inside an equal amount of coils without having more input energy spent.

The prototype will make or brake the hope cop>1. The tests on the version 1 of the Window Motor are still being done for output coil placement and size. One effect we saw on 2 output coils we were testing was connecting one wire from each coil to an analog multimeter and the other wires in open circuit (not connected together or to anything) was a reading of 14V. I don't recal what my friend told me, AC or DC but the effect was strange. Most of the tests done give expected results.

During my free time, I am also reading old books on electricity and magnetism from the 19th and early 20th century in hope of solving a few design problems.

Take care,

Michel

Michelinho
01-26-2010, 12:16 AM
Hi all,

Time for a little update on the Motor/Generator V3.0.

I have a few snapshots of where I am at now.

The inner rotor is 2.75" with 4 2"X1"X.5" Grade 8 ceramic magnets and the stator (3" without coils) inner dimension is ~2.9375" with 8 coils(160 turns on 2 rows) of AWG28 magnet wire set in bifilar.


The vibrator generator works but the magnetic suspension does not allow a long enough travel to be efficient. I will use the coils and magnets in the windbelt version where I will use springs as binder. A magnetic suspension is good for support but it kills the oscillation dead when the vibrations pass a certain amplitude.


The Kohler Magnetstromapparat is still on the back burner. I bought a magnetizer on Ebay to set my magnets and I have designed the coils that will wrap them. All that is left to do is to wind the coils over the steel magnets and start testing.

I am also testing my Orbo test setup with different toroids and windings. No freebies yet... :thinking:

That's all for now, take care,

Michel

ewizard
01-26-2010, 05:14 PM
Very cool project and awesome craftsmanship. I do think motor/gens have a good chance of producing useable high power more than some other possible devices. Is that 1" plywood you are using? I have been looking for some around here but no one seems to have it anymore in this area.

BTW you may already know this but I've read that ceramic magnets have a further reach than Neo magnets. It's odd because up close they don't seem as strong but ceramic seems to have a magnetic effect at a longer distance.

Michelinho
01-27-2010, 04:33 AM
Hi ewizard,

I think ceramic magnets still have the favors of many. I use ceramics and neodymium more according to size availability and compatibility with the project. Motors, I tend to use ceramics and generators usualy neos.

The motor/generator is made with Russian hardwood plywood 3/4" thick. I have never found a defect in it.

Take care,

Michel

Michelinho
01-30-2010, 03:23 AM
Hi all,

Just a small update with a few pictures.

The motor is ready and going to my friend's lab for tests. If all goes well, the second rotor will be added, the 2 rotors will be counter rotating.

The stator has 8 coils, each made of 2 bifilar coils for a total of 64 wire ends. I'll ask him to bring the motor V2.0 so I can fit the output coils all around.

Take care all,

Michel

Mark
01-30-2010, 01:49 PM
Hi Michel

Your coils look great! I'm not really sure what your new setup is but it sure looks nice. Keep up the good work, I'm looking forward to updates.

Mark