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jonnydavro
03-28-2009, 07:59 PM
Hi.I saw a video on utube recently off a Bedini motor that only used 1 magnet and found it interesting so here is my version.
It is a standard Bedini circuit with a bifilar coil and core.The coil sits upright and i place a platic lid from a coffee jar on top.For a rotor i use one off those crazy magnets which are usually sold in pairs and make a loud noise when they attract each other.I have had the motor running today on 3 depleated 1,5v batteries which gave me 4.2v and once its going you can knock it down to 2 batteries.The combined voltage off my 2 batteries was 2.6v and it will start on 2 good ones.It will use 30mA on 3 batteries and and 17mA on 2.
This motor spins really fast at this low voltage and i have also run it off my joule thief and small solar panel and i even tried it on a 12v car battery and it sounded like a jet engine so i am going to stay with low voltage for the moment.
It will charge batteries but i have no imformation for you on this yet as i have been playing with it all day and having fun,it would make a really neat toy.:thumbsup:
Here are some pictures off it and a video.
Regards jonnydavro
YouTube - One magnet no bearing Bedini motor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZitkVFG6Qj8)

Sephiroth
03-28-2009, 08:17 PM
Very cool :thumbsup:

Reminds me of this patent

NOVELTY ELECTRIC MOTOR - Google Patents (http://www.google.co.uk/patents?id=zngyAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=novelty+magnet+spinning#PPA2,M1)

I forget why I know about this patent, lol...

jonnydavro
03-28-2009, 08:58 PM
Hi Sephiroth,Thanks.:thumbsup: That patent does look like it bar the charging so it seems i have created a novelty charger lol.Seriously though the rotor magnet is quite a strong magnet and its throughing its field about so there might be a further recovery option there but at the moment i am having to much fun to try but when the novelty wears off;) Regards jonnydavro:cheers:

wwdotme
03-28-2009, 10:06 PM
That's pretty cool..
Thanks for posting it.
ww

jonnydavro
04-03-2009, 04:19 PM
Hi, just an update.I have added a couple off pickup coils to recover some energy.I have some more coils so i will try adding them aswell.I just wanted to see if the spinning magnet would maintain it steady position in the presence off the pickup coils and it does.One other thing. Some thing i found interesting is i have quite a few off these crazy magnets and most off them have a slightly angular rotation around the vertical but i have one which spins completly upright.Out off the two,the angular rotation ones seem better for use with the pickup coils also this motor will run on a 1.5v battery at 6mA.This seems very low consumption.Does any one know off a really small solar cell that would power this?I have a 2.4 watt but that is overkill,there must be tiny ones which i could use hopefully. Anyway here is a vid off my motor with pickup's.Regards jonnydavro.
YouTube - One magnet no bearing Bedini motor vid 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glBlOTDxn44)

Xenomorph
04-03-2009, 09:31 PM
I can`t stop being impressed by that. I have seen similar things with moving cores before. If the presence of pick-up coils doesn`t interfere with the "magnet-dance" :rofl: then nobody can prevent you from buidling a whole DOME of pickup coils around the dancefloor. That would yield in phenomenal charging never seen before for only 8mA input !!! (Judging from the charging speed of the 9v battery in your video) :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

theremart
04-03-2009, 10:22 PM
If you had a small jar, and was able to create a vacuum with it I bet you could really make that baby spin. And say add some good lubricant at the bottom..

Great work! :cheers:

jonnydavro
04-04-2009, 12:14 AM
@xenomorph. Hi:thumbsup: .The motor was using 30mA during this test and the meter was showing recovered voltage held in caps.My camera does not have a very good frame rate and i think it gives the impresion that the magnet is jumping everywhere but it is not,it spins nice and stable but as it is rotating at a slight angle to the verticle combined with the frame rate it gives that impression.I will try it with 4 pickup coils next working up to maybe 8 around the circumference.If it is still spinning ok i will try your dome idea.It seems it is best to add pickups in pairs as it seems to be ballancing act.Also you can't recover as much voltage as you can from a fixed rotor as you are restricted to how close you can place the coils due to the fact that i don't want to interfere with the rotor.The 6mA input i refered to was for the just the motor spinning with no pickups,using the verticle spinning crazy mag.I was thinking about maybe taking a leaf out off lidmotors book and boxing so to speak the 6mA motor and have it run in my window with a small solar cell involved somehow.Anyhow thanks for the great suggestion.
@theremart. Air is certainly responsible for decreasing the efficiency so running it in a vacuum like you suggest would be good especially if it was a start it up, apply the vacuem and forget about it senario.At the moment though it is probably beyond my abilities to create a stable airtight version There is not a lot off contact between the magnet and the coffee jar lid so i don't think there is a lot off friction there although there will be some.Thanks for your suggestion's,they are most welcome,regards jonnydavro:thumbsup:

theremart
04-04-2009, 03:27 PM
One could make a top Bedini with this concept.... I think back to Peters video about motors and they had a design where the top would spin for months with a similar design....

interesting concept...

Vortex
04-07-2009, 07:09 PM
"those crazy magnets" are made of HEMATITE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hematite)which is Antiferromagnetic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiferromagnetic).
Known as the novelty item: Rattle Snake Eggs.
The shape is ellipsoidal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsoid)

SNAKEEGGS ~ Powerful Ellipsoidal Hematite Magnetic noisemaker toy. (http://www.amazingmagnets.com/browseproducts/SNAKEEGGS-~-Powerful-Ellipsoidal-Hematite-Magnetic-noisemaker-toy..html)

You can't ask for much less friction than rolling friction.
The only moving part would wear out evenly, meaning No parts to wear out?

sigzidfit
04-07-2009, 08:03 PM
Reminds me of Tesla's Egg.

YouTube - Nikola Tesla - Columbus Egg - 1893 Chicago (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS9pf3gtB14)

Peace
PJ

Vortex
04-07-2009, 10:00 PM
Reminds me of Tesla's Egg.

YouTube - Nikola Tesla - Columbus Egg - 1893 Chicago (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS9pf3gtB14)

Peace
PJ

I do not wish to evaluate Tesla's Egg or understand it, a brief description is found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla's_Egg_of_Columbus)
which causes a "rotating magnetic field".

I want to understand jonnydavro's observations.
How does this coil become a "rotating magnetic field"?
Is the answer here, all magnetic fields rotate?
Is the rotation due to surge and collapse of the magnetic field?

Wondering :thinking:
Randy

sigzidfit
04-08-2009, 12:53 AM
I do not wish to evaluate Tesla's Egg or understand it, a brief description is found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla's_Egg_of_Columbus)
which causes a "rotating magnetic field".

I want to understand jonnydavro's observations.
How does this coil become a "rotating magnetic field"?
Is the answer here, all magnetic fields rotate?
Is the rotation due to surge and collapse of the magnetic field?

Wondering :thinking:
Randy

I can't say bro. I just thought they appeared to be similar. I'm a sight triggered animal.

Peace
PJ

Vortex
04-08-2009, 04:48 AM
I can't say bro. I just thought they appeared to be similar. I'm a sight triggered animal.

Peace
PJ

Yep, Yep, understand that. Been there and done that kind of thing myself.
I read how the Tesla egg worked, which has to bring the question ..
Where's the rotation coming from in jonnydavro's experiment?
How is the magnetic field being rotated?
Tesla's device is a toroid coil with FOUR windings ..

Vortex
04-08-2009, 02:55 PM
I still don't understand what is causing the magnetic field to rotate.

Some more interesting things.
The "those crazy magnets" are made of HEMATITE which is Antiferromagnetic. So it isn't Hematite or it isn't a magnet.:confused:


If it is Antiferromagnetic how is it a magnet..
it's known to happen spontaneously but weakly so.
I don't know what these magnets are made of.

Theory of interplay between antiferromagnetism and superconductivity (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TVH-4D04134-15T&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=4c76323d3f0213af9e5357ace4862455)
We investigate the interplay between antiferromagnetism and superconductivity for singlet Cooper pairs in a simple cubic lattice. The Landau expansion of the antiferromagnetic part in the free energy is made up to the fourth order of magnetic order parameters. The coupling term between antiferromagnetism and superconductivity in the free energy is investigated with the generalized spin susceptibility (the generalized Yosida function).

Source (http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=PRBMDO000077000022220506000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes)
Due to the evident proximity of superconductivity to antiferromagnetism and the Mott transition, we suggest that the system may be an analog of the electron-doped cuprates, where antiferromagnetism and superconductivity coexist.


Diamagnetism,
Paramagnetism, Ferromagnetism, Antiferromagnetism (http://thinkscience.today.com/2009/03/31/dia-para-ferro-antiferromagnetism/)
From a non-quantum perspective, there are only two ways to produce magnetic fields: using electric currents and having time-varying electric fields. Electric fields inside matter generally don’t vary in time with high enough frequencies to make their contributions to the magnetic properties of matter all that important, so electric currents are the main cause for matter’s magnetic properties, other than quantum effects. The primary quantum cause of magnetism is spin.

More detail link about magnetism, Diamagnetism,
Paramagnetism, Ferromagnetism, Antiferromagnetism (http://www.irm.umn.edu/hg2m/hg2m_b/hg2m_b.html)

Magnetic Hematite Magnets (http://www.magnetictherapymagnets.com/magnetic-hematite-magnets-healing-properties.html)

Xenomorph
04-10-2009, 08:33 PM
YouTube - One Magnet Bedini Motor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s18_kZBIOp0)

After making the video i realized that Jonny deliberately uses the tumbling magnets because he found that they charge the batteries better, and it was not intended to critize the tumbling magnet. ;)

I also tried to position a smaller pickup coil (with welding rod core) next to the magnet, but if the magnet gets too close it seem to be attracted by the steel in the pickupcoils core and bump into it. So maybe by using 2 oppositely positioned pickup coils, that effect could be nullified somehow, i am not sure.
Or the pickup-coil must have much less core material, so less attraction occurs.

That would be my question to jonnydavro.
How did you do the pickup-coils? Do they have a core?
(Looks like they just sit on a screw in your video)

Anyway, this is really fun and does some nice charging.
So i can encourage people to build it, it is comparatively easy especially
if you already have a Bedini coil from previous motor builds.

Have fun :cheers: ,
Xenomorph

jonnydavro
04-11-2009, 12:17 AM
@Xenomorph.Fantastic:thumbsup: Thankyou so much for taking the time and effort to replicate.:cheers:
In answer to your questions regarding the pickup coils,first the construction.They are made from 38swg wire wound onto some brass spools i don't know how many turns i just filled them.For a core i am using a small steel bolt.You can see them in the pic i have posted off some tests i was doing today with a nonmagnetic concave metal lid.The reason i was using this concave lid was to alliviate the same problem that you have come accross with the verticle spinning magnet and it works so go concave with the verticle magnet.It will still go round in a circle and pass close to the pickups but with careful adjustment they will not touch.That is why i have used the bolts as cores so i can screw them in or out for adjustment.I do not envisage any problem running the 8 pickup coils i have made for this motor following mytests today with all core's in place(see pic).I also think you could run as many aircore coils as you could get near it.I am just waiting for the postman to bring me some more bridge rectifiers.
I do not have this problem with the angular spinning magnet as you can see in my video.with the angular magnet it's position is completly stable in the presence off the pickups but like you suspected its a ballancing act so add coils in pairs.I think the rpm's may be higher with the verticle magnet,i had my meter set on hz today and it was over 300hz so we really need a scope on this to find out what is going on.
I have got my motor spinning unbelievably fast on 4.5v 13mA.To get this low draw i did the following.
1.Put a 12v relays coil in series with the trigger resistors.This was seph's idea and i use it on all my motors.Everyone who has a bedini should try this mod. Thanks Sephiroth.(you can see this relay in the pic)
2.Trigger resistance.Standard Bedini 1k pot,100 ohm resistor and i added a 100k pot.Leave the 1k pot on 0 ohms and Turn the 100k or whatever large value pot you use only till you get the fastest and least current draw and then measure 100k pot resitance and replace with some thing 5k bigger than measured resistance.Mine worked out at 5680ohms so i changed the 100k for a 10kpot.
3.For higher rpm's.Try different types off plastic lids.I find the clear thin type placed on top off the white lid increase rpm.I think the platic is self lubricating.Hope this Helps and thanks again.If i can be off anymore help just ask.Regards jonnydavro.:cheers:
@Vortex.Thankyou for looking into the makeup of these magnets.What you found is very interesting but i suspect they may be made from magnetite which is pysically and chemicaly almost identical to Hematite,both being a mineral off iron.It would be interesting to find out for sure though.Many thanks jonnydavro:cheers:
@ All. Here are some pics off the magnet pole orientation on these crazy magnets.Regards jonnydavro.:thumbsup:

Ted Ewert
04-11-2009, 02:11 AM
Great idea, very cool. :thumbsup:

Why don't you guys use air core pick-up coils? Wind them wide and shallow (more like a puck shape) and you can get them much closer to the magnet.
Remember though, when you induce current into a coil, it becomes a magnet, with or without an iron core. Nevertheless, air cores should work much better for this application.



Ted

Xenomorph
04-11-2009, 03:02 AM
@Jonnydavro:
CONCAVE lid !!! Great Idea, that keeps the magnet in the middle !!!
Now i have to check my supermarket for lids with that shape hehe.
Thanks for explaining the pickup-coils.
I will try to get the necessary material tomorrow to make some.
Brass spools? I have something like that, it is actually some kind of anchor bolt or screw anchor
that is made of brass for difficult/porous walls.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7341/anchor1.jpg

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Mark
04-11-2009, 02:16 PM
Hey Guys,

Have you tried to use a small glass bowl instead of plastic? Seems like a harder material would have less resistance. I built a small Bedini using a small gyro scope and it spins around 3500rpm with 12 volts .040 amps. The gyro scope doesn't have any bearings it rides on 2 points with a concave screw on each end. Maybe you could use a small bolt in the center of you coil core that has a concave end to hold the magnet in the middle depending on how pointed the end of the magnet is. Or fasten a pin on the end of it?

Sephiroth
04-11-2009, 02:34 PM
@Jonnydavro:
CONCAVE lid !!! Great Idea, that keeps the magnet in the middle !!!
Now i have to check my supermarket for lids with that shape hehe.
Thanks for explaining the pickup-coils.
I will try to get the necessary material tomorrow to make some.
Brass spools? I have something like that, it is actually some kind of anchor bolt or screw anchor
that is made of brass for difficult/porous walls.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7341/anchor1.jpg

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Check out the patent I posted earlier... it is exactly the same principle except it doesn't capture the flyback.

@mart

THATS where I found the patent! Cheers! Couldn't remember where I saw it before!

@vortex

I don't think the solenoids field is rotating. The magnet spins the way it does for exactly the same reasons a standard rotor does. It's just a matter of timing the pulse to maintain momentum.

Sephiroth
04-11-2009, 03:28 PM
This is the device in the patent fig.1.

Top Secret - Perpetual Spinning Top - InnovaToys (http://www.innovatoys.com/p/TOPS1)

check out the flash demo to see it operating. should give you a few ideas for construction :thumbsup:

Xenomorph
04-11-2009, 09:17 PM
I used the relay coil now and a 10k pot like jonny pointed out and the amp draw really went down significantly to something like 25milliAmps !!!!!!!! And this at 12 Volt source battery voltage.

However the thing behaves now quite differently, it seems to speed up more and more and the bedini coil is singing silently.Also the magnet seems to be pushed away from the center too forcefully that it finds itself at the edges constantly.

I assume some kind of resonance phenomenon has been introduced between the relay coil and the bedini coil.
It may be attributed to that effect that the amp draw went down.
Gotoluc has similar results in his resonance thread currently.
If i can stabilize the whole thing at 25 mA then this is a killer battery charger, i still can`t believe it. :thumbsup:

Sephiroth
04-11-2009, 10:35 PM
I believe the relay coil has several effects on the circuit that reduces current draw. On a motor-type charger it allows you to reduce the pulse width beyond what can be achieved with a standard configuration by delaying the following pulse to a point past the scalar south so the coil can not fire a second time. For example a motor that normally runs on double pulses per magnet pass can run on a single pulse.

Another effect is that it reduces the energy lost in the triggering circuit by restricting current.

Remember that when the coil is energising current is flowing in the opposite direction through the trigger coil... This creates a counter magnetic field that reduces the overall strength of the magnetic field formed by the stator. By reducing the current flowing through the trigger coil, we are increasing the strength of the coils magnetic field for the same amount of input power. I believe this is why we are able to achieve higher rpm for less current draw.

You're right... there is also a resonance effect :) but I am not sure if it benefits charging.

If your coil is ringing then it sounds like it has gone into resonance but I think this is more likely to be because of the higher resistance than the added inductance.

If you haven't seen them, these are the original videos of the trigger choke :thumbsup:

YouTube - Beneficial Modification of the Bedini SSG? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P1zr58MVfI&feature=channel_page)

YouTube - Bedini Trigger Choke Comparison - RPM & AMPS & STROBE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIvA4uo72wE&feature=channel_page)

Xenomorph
04-12-2009, 05:01 PM
My first pickup coil didnt deliver much of an output. Maximum 0.15 Volt and the charge didnt stay on the cap because it is just too low.
I have used 10 layers of 0.2 mm copper wire on a stainless steel screw (core) and a brass anchor as the spool. I went straight into a bridge rectifier then into the cap.
I wonder how jonny managed to charge batteries with 2 pickup coils?

Possible improvement could be really to limit the area that the magnet moves in, so the induced voltage is more coherent.
Maybe i need much more turns on the coil?

YouTube - pickupattempt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOd_TrQS6m4)

@Sephiroth : Thanks for the links, your videos are cool !

jonnydavro
04-12-2009, 08:11 PM
@Ted Ewert.Thankyou for your suggestion.I have tried aircore and may go that way as it seems you could place as many as you could fit round the magnet but you would have to use quite a few because of the reduced output.Thankyou for your help.:thumbsup:
@Mark thanks for your suggestions.Its the little piece's that finish the puzzle.:thumbsup:
@sephiroth. Regarding the benefits off adding the relay coil to the trigger circuit.I have noticed three things.Firstly the reduced amp draw.This mod is the quickest way i have seen to at least half amp draw if not more.Everyone who has a bedini motor should try this like i stated earlier.
Second.When running this motor at low voltage low amps,if i disconected my charge battery without the relay in the trigger circuit the neon did not light.I then add the relay and for the same amp draw and voltage the neon lights.This tells me i am getting high spikes at a lower ampdraw with the relay.
Thirdly.There is the recovery of the bemf from the relay coil.You may already know all off the above but others may benefit from this imformation.
I think you mentioned that you were trying to see if you could get a relay to operate in the trigger circuit when you made this discovery but i don't know if you managed to do it but i have a motor which does exactly that.I am thinking about using it to send its own bemf back to the run battery.But thats another story.Thanks for sharing your mod:cheers:
@Xeenomorph.Great job on getting the amp draw down.I see that you have noticed that the benefit off those mods is an increase in rpm.If you had a magnet that spins at an angle it would remain stable in position and perfers to spin on the flat not concave lid,but you have a verticle spinning magnet so to bring it into control i would try dropping the voltage by using three 1.5v batteries.If it is still spinning like mad try 2.I have had mine running on one but 4.5v seems like a good starting point.It still spins at high rpm at this voltage but it may help.Also the concave lid would help.Another way is to make a stand like i have and put the amount off cores you are going to use in and the drag that these core's create will slow your magnet and inhibit its movement.
Regarding pickup coils.We need a pickup coil that everyone can make or acquire from a relay coil or build to a set spec.The one's i have made are not reproducible as the spindles i used came with an antique sewing machine i am going to convert to a coil winder so we need some help with the coils.I have seen your latest video and i think part off the problem is you have not got a captive audience so to speak but you will;) Also is the bolt you are using magnetic?If the magnet bumps into my coil it capture's over 3v so we need help here.Anybody got any suggestions?
Anyway the fact your magnet is moving around on your top,we can use to our advantage.I don't know if you noticed but while its wandering around,it moves in and out off the magnetic field and so your ampmeter should go to zero when its not triggering.This give's us an oportunity to feed back to sorce.I had a little play and this is what i did.I removed the charge battery and connected a 2200uf cap to the positive charge battery lead.I connected the negative off the cap to the negative off the run battery.I left the negative charge lead disconnected.I then put an analogue ampmeter from the positive off the cap to the positive off the run battery.I did not use a diode as it seemed i got higher feedback without one.If you get a chance,try it but keep an eye on the voltage in the cap as it climbs quick if you don't have it connected to the run battery.Is what i found was the run battery voltage didn't drop for the duration off the test which was about 40 minutes..I was using 2 1.5v batteries for this test.I will go back to this later in the week when i get some time off work.Regards jonnydavro:cheers:

Xenomorph
04-12-2009, 09:30 PM
Thanks jonnydavro,
i guess the bolts were not good enough.
I am using the copper coated welding rods as a core for the pickup coil and now i am seeing much higher voltages, like you said if the magnet bumps into the coil it can jump to 2-3 volt. I will make more of those and connect them in serial.

How would i manage to keep the charge on the cap? As it is now, it drops pretty much instantly.

Sephiroth
04-12-2009, 09:41 PM
@sephiroth. Regarding the benefits off adding the relay coil to the trigger circuit.I have noticed three things.Firstly the reduced amp draw.This mod is the quickest way i have seen to at least half amp draw if not more.Everyone who has a bedini motor should try this like i stated earlier.
Second.When running this motor at low voltage low amps,if i disconected my charge battery without the relay in the trigger circuit the neon did not light.I then add the relay and for the same amp draw and voltage the neon lights.This tells me i am getting high spikes at a lower ampdraw with the relay.

:thumbsup: Glad it works for you! It doesn't seem to work for everyone. Mart is the only other person I know of that has reported the same effects.

The neon's effect is interesting and it makes sense. If the current is restricted in the trigger circuit then there will be a higher potential build up in the primary circuit and this will be more noticeable with lower amp draw. I haven't noticed it so thanks for sharing!

Are you using a 12v relay? I was never able to get the relay to close using just the trigger coil but I only tried 6v relay coils.

jonnydavro
04-12-2009, 09:46 PM
@Xenomorph.Could be a leaky cap,swap it and see.Thats good news on your pickups,sounds like they are similar to mine now.I forgot to mention before,Try to recover some bemf from your relay coil.Regards jonnydavro:thumbsup:

jonnydavro
04-12-2009, 09:55 PM
@Sephiroth.The relay in this motor is a 12v relay but i get the same results with a 6v.The relay in the motor where the relay operates is a 6v relay.Regards jonnydavro:thumbsup:

Xenomorph
04-13-2009, 10:35 PM
EDIT: I just connected the cap parallel to the relay coil with a diode to the plus of the cap and it charges nicely!
But something really strange was discovered, i still had the pickup-coil connected to the cap, but it was lying far away from the Bedini coil. So if i disconnect the strong Cap charging effect doesnt happen, it seems to have to stay connected !?!?!
I made a video of it, will post it once uploaded. Here it is : YouTube - RelayPickup (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuHzbRhkKIQ)
This setup is really exciting many possibilities to recover energy, it looks really really promising.

jonnydavro
04-13-2009, 10:49 PM
@Xenomorph.Great job.I agree.I think this captured bemf can be put to good use.Looking forward to your vid to see what you have been up too.regards jonnydavro

jonnydavro
04-14-2009, 11:01 PM
Hi.I have been collecting bemf from the relay coil in the bedini trigger circuit using a diode and cap and i wondered if you could collect it from both directions and you can.Here is a circuit to show you what i mean.
Regards jonnydavro:thumbsup:

Xenomorph
04-15-2009, 12:30 AM
@jonnydavro
Have you noticed a slowed down charging rate on the first capacitor when you added the second?
I have thought about something like that too, but whenever i have tried that before the available radiant energy was evenly distributed over ALL the caps.

BUT if the charging rate is as fast on both caps as on a single one, then this is a winner hehe.

Have you tried to parallely connect a pickup coil with a rectifier to the cap too? It was enormously boosting my charging as to be seen in my last vid.

Do you actually reach a cap voltage higher than the supply battery voltage, because thats where the step charging on my relay coil cap stops at?


I am making an aircoil right now like Ted suggested to see what can be done with that.
Hehe is see the magnet being "miked" like a president with dozens of different pickup-coils :rofl:

Really fun this project

jonnydavro
04-15-2009, 07:44 AM
@Xenomorph.The first cap charges at the same rate,no slow down with the second cap connected and reaches voltage's higher than the supply battery.This is why i think you should try running at 4.5v.
The second cap charges to just under half off the voltage off the first cap.
The addition off these caps has no effect on the rpm's off the motor.
I have not tried your paralleling a coil but i will and let you know what happens.
I think aircore coils is well worth investigating as like you mentioned earlier you could use many arranged in a dome and there is less drag.
Happy experimenting regards jonnydavro:thumbsup:

Xenomorph
04-15-2009, 11:19 PM
@Ted Ewert:

Your were dead on! :thumbsup:

The puck-shaped air coil is cutting it, charges the cap up very fast to 20 Volts! This magnet/big coil setup is really producing a strong magnetic field to hit the air-core coil. And it has the benefit that it does not attract the magnet.

Thanks for your input! :cheers:

If anyone cares too see it : YouTube - Aircore (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvALVL_Zjlk)

jonnydavro
04-16-2009, 08:47 AM
@ Xenomorph.:thumbsup: What you show in your video is amazing.You are getting a very high output from your aircore so we owe Ted a beer on that one.I agree with you on the strong magnetic field off these magnets and the high rpm they are spinning is contributing to the high output.I still can't get over how much voltage you are generating from just one coil.I know your probably winding a few more.I would be;)
I cannot see my cored coils outperforming yours as with the core comes drag so i think you have made a great advancement here but i will still test them just to see.:cheers:
Looking forward to where you go with this.Thanks for embracing this project and from the looks off it ,your having just as much fun as me.
Regards jonnydavro:cheers:

Hoppy
04-16-2009, 10:53 AM
@Ted Ewert:

Your were dead on! :thumbsup:

The puck-shaped air coil is cutting it, charges the cap up very fast to 20 Volts! This magnet/big coil setup is really producing a strong magnetic field to hit the air-core coil. And it has the benefit that it does not attract the magnet.

Thanks for your input! :cheers:

If anyone cares too see it : YouTube - Aircore (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvALVL_Zjlk)

@ Xenomorph:

Do you get any induced voltage if you stop the magnet spinning with the coil in the same position as on your video?

Hoppy

Xenomorph
04-16-2009, 12:50 PM
@Hoppy: The circuit would not be putting anything through the bedini coil without the magnet triggering it. But i know what you mean.
So i even lifted up the whole Bedini coil while the magnet was spinning on top of it and put the aircore coil UNDER the bedini coil, to see if the aircore induction is not mainly a product of the Bedini-coils magnetism.
There was a slight reading of maybe 0.3 V but not more.
So the induced voltage is indeed nearly entirely coming from the magnets movement

Thanks for pointing that out though. :thumbsup:

If anyone here actually wants to replicate the aircore coil, here i explain how it is made: YouTube - AircorecoilSpecs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQdBIAR38_Q)

Mark
04-16-2009, 01:52 PM
@ Xenomorph

I have played with air cores while running an SSG and found that I can get more voltage out of an air core coil if I place it about 1/3 to 1/2 way up or down the drive coil. I've wondered what kind of voltage you could get off a flat bifilar Tesla coil. Just a thought.

Hoppy
04-16-2009, 02:45 PM
@ xenomorph

Thanks for doing this and excluding the possibly of coil coupling. The induced voltage is surprisingly high and I'm intrigued enough about by this setup to give it a try myself.

Hoppy

jonnydavro
04-16-2009, 08:52 PM
Hi.I have today tested the bemf recovery from the relay coil and also Xenomorph's aircore coil and can confirm his findings.I tested with both the angular spinning magnet and the verticle spinner and think the verticle spinner is the better of the two.The verticle spinner seems uneffected by the coil but the angular spinner slows down.Here is a video off the test.
Regards jonnydavro:thumbsup:
YouTube - One magnet no bearing Bedini motor vid3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywz0T8JNrs0)

Xenomorph
04-18-2009, 04:45 PM
@jonnydavro: Nice one, looks good :cheers:

I have just finished a 2nd aircore coil. It works great together with the first one.

How many can we get around the magnet ? :rofl:

Looks like i gotta buy a lot of copper wire now :thinking:

I made a little video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaY2Yalhris

jonnydavro
04-19-2009, 07:49 AM
@Xenomorph.Great video.:thumbsup: Your aircore coils seem to work great on this setup as you show on your vid and there looks like there is plenty off scope to add more as is your plan,how many we can add?I don't know but 4 certainly looks possible with the speed your magnet is spinning.
An update where i am upto.I am still using one coil but have rewound with 40swg so the spool is full to see if i could increase the coil output/speed and it has so i will make another now and see what that does.
Keep up the good work regards jonnydavro.:thumbsup:

Xenomorph
04-19-2009, 12:49 PM
Hey jonnydavro,
so are you saying that the induced voltage is significantly higher with 1000+ turns of thinner wire? That is interesting, my SWG 36 wire comes on a 110m spool and i have used it all up, so i could not make more than approx. 900 turns.
I was wondering if a too high turn count would be detrimental due to resistance issues, guess it needs experimenting :thinking:

I am making a 3rd coil now, that will power a 555 circuit, so i can experiment with cap discharging the other coils.

Looking forward to seeing your new coil in action :thumbsup:

Jbignes5
04-19-2009, 02:33 PM
What if you made the base ,which the circulating magnet is rotating on, in the shape of a relaxed cup to better control the magnet. This way it could still move around but not bump into your coils as much. It doesn't have to be much of a cup only enough to keep it from going too wild, bumping into your coils. It might also be better to get yourself some super slippery material like that stuff used to move heavy furniture. The little pads that go underneath stuff to be able to push it around.
This is very exciting stuff here. What kind of efficiency/cop are you getting atm with the current setup? What would you figure would be from a completed coils setup? Like 4-8 coils?

Xenomorph
04-19-2009, 02:56 PM
@Jbignes5:

thanks for your input.
Jonnydavro has in fact worked with concave lids as a base for the magnet to restrict its motion.
The thing is, that the bumping actually surprisingly results in big output and the more the magnet moves around the higher the output over all coils, so at the moment i would rather care for maximal elongation of the magnet than for a restriction of its movement, but i will keep it in mind and test it in the future.

Friction is not too much of a critical issue here because the magnetic force of the bifilar coil is whirling that thing around like crazy.


Concerning your COP question, i will stay away from making any assessments regarding this or potential OU results.
It is my philosophy to present numbers and let others make assumptions.
Besides, it is common practice on forums like this to attack users that make those claims and i prefer to keep this pointless discussion out of here and focus on the actual active experiment.

It is enough for now to be aware of the fact that the pickup-coils are picking up peak voltages of 15-25 volt per coil (measured across the terminals of an electrolytic capacitor after a bridge rectifier) WHILE the primary circuit is charging a battery off the transistors collector.

I will be attempting to feed the captured energy back to the source to at least majorly extend the run time of the source battery. Depending on how that will turn out, efficiency conclusions can then be made.

Jbignes5
04-19-2009, 04:01 PM
Well my only concern is that it might be slowing down the magnet when it bumps. I understand that a certain amount of movement is desireable but it might work better for you to design the pathway to allow for full speed with no interuptions.
Frictionj is friction it will to a degree slow it down. Seeing that most devices in this field try to lower that % to the minimal it can ever be it might help with seeing other effects that are not so apparent now.
As for the OU that wasn't the basis of my inquiry. I just wanted to know based on the numbers and what you have seen how it is operating. Thats all.

Good job and great idea!

jonnydavro
04-19-2009, 07:44 PM
Hi Xenomorph.My first aircore was modeled on yours but using 38swg wire but it felt so light i thought i would try one with more wire and thinner wire(40swg).I used a reel from a roll off ptfe plumbers tape as the spindle and filled it.It says in the catalogue that there is 2200meters off wire on the roll i got but i find that hard to believe.
The results were the capasitor which is 1000uf climbs quicker and higher and the pickup still collects voltage when the magnet is not right next to the coil so it is an improovement but i suspect your right about there being an optimum wire size wire lengh as i have probably gone overboard on this one but my next one will probably have half the amount off wire as this one and i will compare all three.
Happy tinkering regards jonnydavro:thumbsup:

Xenomorph
04-20-2009, 04:20 AM
I have 4 pickup coils now yielding in peak voltages of up to 75 volt across 4 caps.

Video: YouTube - 4Coils (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi31N8h7DkA)

@Jbignes5:

I will try to obtain the slipery material that you talk about. Do you have any idea what the material is called? That would make it easier to find it.

It will hopefully maximize the rotational speed which is proportional to the voltage in a way.

I will also try to find a somewhat concave ground for the magnet.

Lidmotor
04-20-2009, 04:37 PM
@ Everyone here---- Wow!!! I just stumbled onto this thread yesterday and the more I studied it the more all I can say is WOW!!!
Jonny this is really neat. I ordered the "snake eggs" and will try to replicate this. A new kind of "Lidmotor"?:rofl:
I wonder if John Bedini has seen this and what he would say about it. The magnet field interactions must be crazy. The fact that you can pick up so much energy from the air core coils and not affect the amp draw much is amazing.
I might try to combine this with the Dr. Stiffler SEC experiments that I have been working with. Maybe run this wirelessly. :thinking:
Slayer is going to probably want to try this. He has a SEC, like mine, that runs things wirelessly.
The possibilities for this are endless.

Lidmotor

Xenomorph
04-20-2009, 05:50 PM
@Lidmotor : Good to have you in on this experiment!

I consider you an expert on energy recovery and am looking forward to what you will be getting out of this :thumbsup:

Jbignes5
04-20-2009, 07:16 PM
@ Xenomorph

This is a amazon link to a good amnount of them from 8 bucks.

Amazon.com: Moving Men 8-Piece Furniture Slider Set: Kitchen & Dining (http://www.amazon.com/Moving-Men-8-Piece-Furniture-Slider/dp/B0000645RF)
I don't know if it is the same as the stuff that I remember from along time back but they should do. And it is cheap to boot! You might want to look around first to make sure it is the correct stuff. Something in the back of my mind says terflon but I can't remember exactly.

That might get you so additional speed and limiting the amount of bumping that is going on should net you some more. Just need to make a small indent on the surface of this stuff to see if it will keep it in line and not bump the coils as much. You might loose 2-3 mm of travel on each side but it should make is perform a lot better as well.

jonnydavro
04-20-2009, 10:40 PM
@Lidmotor.Hi.:thumbsup: I am glad you have found us,you are going to love this one.Wow! is exactly what i said when it first fired up and im still saying it.
I think this would probably work with the SEC project you are working on as i have had it running on 1.5v 6mA so its in the ball park.
I think if you and slayer get your teeth into this we will be in for some suprises as you both create unbelievable things.That SEC your working on at the moment has blown me away and i hope to have a go at that later.
If your interested Lid i have uploaded the circuit in the very first post.The 2 variable resistors are important in my version.
Hope to see your version in the near future.:thumbsup:
@All I have tonight done a test on the 40swg pickup coil at 12v so it will be comparable with the output off Xenomorphs pickup coil and the results were quite surprising.The verticle Magnet is spinning so fast and zooming about at 12v and the output was over 47v and still climbing.At one stage it was over 50v and climbing.There seems to be no effect on the magnets speed from the pickup coil.
I did the same test with the angular spinning magnet at that goes up to 48v but the coil has an effect on this magnet and slows it so i think the verticle is the way to go.
Here is a pic off the test.Regards jonnydavro:thumbsup:

Xenomorph
04-20-2009, 11:00 PM
@Jonnydavro: Wow the 50 Volt are coming from just 1 pickup-coil?
Then it catches more voltage than mine.

You are using a much higher capacitance than what i am using.
I wanted to keep it low so the caps charge up faster until they can be discharged.

What would be your turn count guesstimation on yours?
40 SWG wire was that again?

Did you abandon the concave Lid? Looks like a flat one on your pic.


I have finally managed to put that captured energy into a battery with a timed cap discharge circuit and the battery is charging slowly but steadily.
The timing values have to be much optimized on the 555 but it is a start.

Video: YouTube - Timed Capacitor Discharge Experiment 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6qGvHUPbsY)

Yourself and Gyula made a nice point about the disconnection of the caps from the bridge during discharge, i will go ahead and make such a circuit.

Now that i have 4 pickup-coils, i really wonder where additional coils could be placed. I guess putting smaller ones into the big coils would lead to unwanted effects. So it seems that optimizing what you get out of the 4 surrounding pickup-coils is the way to go.

jonnydavro
04-20-2009, 11:37 PM
@Xenomorph.Yes,50v from one pickup coil and it was still climbing.How high it would have gone i don't know as i could not control the magnet it was spinning so fast and it kept flying off so tomorrow i may repeat the experiment with 1 coil and 3 empty spools to contain it.
I prefer like you to allow the magnet to bump into the coil as you get a nice voltage jump so i don't use the concave lid.Flat seems better.
The cap i used in this test was 2200uf.What size are you using?
It seems to charge up quite quickly.
Regarding turns on the coil.The answer is i don't know.I wound it with a drill but there are a lot off turns on it.I think if you make one and nearly fill it,you will get similar results if you use 40swg.
I Like your cap discharger.It is good that the battery is charging slowly but it is early days,but a step in the right direction.:thumbsup: regards jonnydavro

Xenomorph
04-21-2009, 12:28 AM
The cap i used in this test was 2200uf.What size are you using?

I use 10uF/35 v. The idea behind it was to allow a fast charging until discharge.

However this turns out to be ineffective, the average charge current during the discharge pulse is only 1-2 mA, which is not enough pressure to fill the battery.

I will probably have to increase the capacitance and use longer intervals for the discharge cycle to allow the caps to fill to 15+ volt. That way the charge current will hopefully increase significantly.

After my todays observation i am not so sure anymore if the bumping really increases the output or if i was just imagining that. But you noticed it too.
I am interested to find out what the people that replicate this observe.

Theoretically at least it makes sense to have the magnet move maximally.
The bumping brakes the rotation though and might lead to slight losses.

The lid i am using has a little hole in the middle and that constantly brakes the magnet. I gotta try a few others. Maybe this is even good at sending it away from the center of the lid, who knows.

Regarding turns on the coil.The answer is i don't know.I wound it with a drill but there are a lot off turns on it.I think if you make one and nearly fill it,you will get similar results if you use 40swg.

I understand that you did not want to count the turns (especially with nearly hair thin wire). From the voltages you are getting i estimate you must have something like 2000 turns on there easily.
Tomorrow i will try to make one with SWG40 and 2000 turns and see how that performs. :thumbsup:

Keep it up :cheers:

Vortex
04-21-2009, 01:13 AM
video of working sphere (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3RUgnUn33M) .
A sphere might work as well?, not as dramatic as the bullets..
but come many sizes and strengths ..
Teflon spray, comes in a can :thinking:
Expert® Tef-Lube Teflon Film Spray (http://www.albatross-usa.com/htmlversion/lubricants/ExpertTefLube_html.htm)
Teflon Spray Light-Coat (http://www.sealfast.com/d_teflon_spray.html)

Putting any shape magnet inside a plaster easter egg
would create a spin-able shape ?????

Xenomorph
04-21-2009, 02:03 AM
@Vortex:

Thanks for the tip with the teflon spray, i will see that i get it.

Concerning the Sphere magnet, it is interesting, there is no friction just the rubberband forces.
The wild movement also in the z-axis might however would make it difficult to
get pickup-coils close enough to it to have a decent output (if you are not just using it for standard purposes of course)

I´d be interested to see how a magnetic ball would perform on the lid since it would not have the tendency to go down when too slow.

Lidmotor
04-21-2009, 02:58 AM
I just couldn't wait to get the 'snake egg' magnets in the mail so I drove all over until I found some in a supermarket toy section. I disassembled an old SSG an threw a rig together. What a trip!!! :suprise: This thing spins up like a tornado! Sounds like a Dremel tool winding up. I will build a better setup and see what she can do with the pickup coil and maybe the SEC linked. After this video I got this simple setup to run on 1.5 volts at about 25Ma. If I can get that down the SEC might run it wirelessly. I know my 3.5 solar cell will do it. Thanks everybody for sharing this. Here is my video of today's fun.

YouTube - Jonny's 1 magnet Bedini My replication (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHtZvGE0dzE)

Cheers.

Lidmotor

Jbignes5
04-21-2009, 01:25 PM
I would stay with the snake mags as they are shaped better to facilitate the air coils around the sides. Yes teflon spay would also work. But as you seen in lidmotors example the sides of the lid tend to slow the magnet down alot. Hence why it would be better to use a slight bowl shape in the lid. Then flat area around that for your coils to rest on.
Has anyone figured out why this works like it does? It definetly looks like the magnetic forces are in a vortex above the coil. Does varying the frequency also change the speed? Are these bi-filiar coils?
Great work guys this is very exciting to see that this works the way it does.

Xenomorph
04-21-2009, 06:58 PM
It is very hard to find a perfectly suited bowl shaped lid and hot-bending plastic like Pirate has done can work, i made one now, but the right shape is crucial, i guess it is not steep enough on the edges, but too steep will crash the magnet.

I have tried some other lids today, just to find out that with the one i had used before the little hole in the middle, that slowed the magnet down a bit, is necessary for a flawless operation. At 12 V the magnet will speed up that fast and it will always wander to the edges and finally crash into the pickup coils. With a bowl shaped lid it is pretty impossible to start the magnets rotation up, it needs to be manually rotated (with a lot of force) flat before it erects itself and starts rotating the way it does.
It is really really hard to get it going :(

Due to the fact that i want a 12 Volt system to charge big batteries off the collector, i try hard to get this working with a 12 V source.

A lower voltage source will not accelerate the magnet that much.

A lot of tweaking has still to be done.

Only the primary circuit coil is bifilar, the aircore coils are monofilar.

jonnydavro
04-21-2009, 09:08 PM
@Lidmotor.Great vid Lid.:thumbsup: My you work fast.Thats probably a good way for anyone who has already got a bedini to try this,just up end the coil and away you go.;)
If the circuit you are using is the standard Bedini with the 100ohm and the 1k pot,you won't be getting the full rpms and lower current consumption.My motors trigger resistance is 6680 ohms when it is going full blast.This is the 100+1000+5540(10kpot)+40 for sephiroths 12v relay.Just adding the 10k pot makes a lot off difference but adding the relay should drop the current consumption plus give you 2 bemf outputs which i have had joule thief on so god knows what you could do with them.:thumbsup:
Thanks for replicating this Lid and i see pirate has just got one going using your coil design so lets see what we can do with this.Regards jonnydavro:cheers:

Xenomorph
04-21-2009, 09:47 PM
YouTube - Bigger Puffer Capacitors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFqayiEQpGs)

A little improvement of the charging from the pickup-coils to a 3rd battery

Jbignes5
04-22-2009, 01:51 AM
That is a way better, I'd say major improvement! Much smoother and not so much banging the coils. Awesome!

I was thinking earlier, *Thinks, Oh Nooo, not thinking again*, if you redid the air coils so they were like this "0" instead of "O" would you be able to fit more of them around the magnet? Like when you form them you could use a piece of cardboard then slip it out afterwards or even leave it in. Kinda like a cats eye. It might let you get more coils around it. what do you have now 4? I was thinking like 6-9. Is that a good idea or am I way off? It should net you more current I would think.
I love how this is evolving as you go xenomorph. You have a talent for building. I am gona start my first experiments and start doing videos soon. It looks like a lot of fun!
On the cup of the lid I only have this to say about it that it should be very very small depth. Just enough to keep it from going too close to the coils. I understand how hard it must be to start but I think you should go half way with my suggestion and have a flat bottom in the cup with slightly curved edges leading to another flat lip for the coils to go on.

Kinda like this:
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p171/jbignes5/Cupplate.jpg

Try that if you can and see if that would help with starting it.

Vortex
04-22-2009, 02:42 AM
Do the forces that spin the magnet also keep the magnet over the coil?
If a much larger platform was used would the magnet escape from the grip of the coil and run away?
Would the magnet stay above / over the coil without containment of the platform lid/lip/etc.?

Does this spinning only occur using a bifilar coil and thus the magnetic field
created by the second coil is required to spin the magnet?
just :thinking:

Lidmotor
04-22-2009, 02:54 AM
Here is what mine looks like on the scope. Just a standard Bedini SSG "h" wave.:thumbsup:

YouTube - One magnet Bedini Scope Shots (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg4QlVjOnvQ)

Lidmotor

Xenomorph
04-22-2009, 03:31 AM
@Vortex:
This works like a standard Bedini circuit.
The magnets rotation induces current that triggers the transistor, which in turn pushes the magnet. So a monofilar coil would not do anything except you create some kind of oscillation in that maybe, but thats what the magnet is there for in this case anyway.

The movement of the magnet is entirely random and in certain cases it can accelerate itself into a direction and pick up as much kinetic energy into that direction that it will fall off the lid.
It is really mysterious what fluctuations the magnet is going through when you observe it for an hour hehe.
So a proper base resistance setting is crucial to keep the magnet close to the center.

@Lidmotor: Cool that you tried this with a trifilar, i have been wondering what a third winding could do. Nice one!

Jbignes5
04-22-2009, 12:27 PM
Hey guys had a dream last night about this and was paying good attention to my dream setup. Could you try this for me in the mean time until I get my setup going.
1: I know startup is hard to do. In my dream I made a paper tube and taped it. I cut it to 3/4 the length of the magnet. It had alittle room around the magnet so that it could spin. I placed the end of the tube on the surface then placed the magnet into the tube and spun it up. Once it was going I gently lifted off the tube and away it went. Try this and see if the startup gets easier that way.
2: Both a question and experiment. Does position of the magnet have anything to do with how it runs? Ie. Could you put a wire cirlcle, just a magnet wire of about 20 awg in a small ring of about the size of your thumb with both ends soldered together, then place it on the surface and held there by tape or hot glue. Would that work?
3: If 2 works could you try putting the wire circle in front of one of the coils and try another circle in front of one of the other coils with a second magnet. I know it might be hard to do but if the paper tube works for the startup you could place the tube end in the circle wire guide and slip the magnet in and start it that way, again if that works. That would be interesting to see if the magnets would run that way. I'm going on the great snake egg magnet hunt today to see if I can find some.
Thanks for all your hard work!
Be waiting for your next video guys!

Xenomorph
04-22-2009, 02:59 PM
@Jbignes5:

I am looking forward to seeing you experiment with what you suggested here.
Unfortunately i dont get what you describe with the start-up tube.

Have a look in jonnys first video and you will see how much power you have to put into the initial spin of the magnet to get it going.
I personally can only get it going by having it flat on the lid and with both hands pushing the edges into a rotation real hard a couple of times until it starts up.

Restriction of the magnets movement is detrimental to the induced voltage of the pick-up coils. Jonnydavro and myself agree that it is helping the output to have the magnet bump into the coils occasionally.

I have tried restricting the magnet by putting a carboardring around it and it has most of the times killed the rotation, since it will try to fight its way out of the confinement and then go into a circular rotation around the edges.
When placing a small wire on the lid, i think the magnet will most likely just jump over it or make it fall, there is a lot of kinetic energy in this thing.

Jbignes5
04-22-2009, 03:19 PM
I certainly agree with you not having the unit in front of me to test my theories out. but I will do whatever I can to replicate it on my end then I can show you better what I mean.
The tube is just to keep the magnet upright. With you left hand hold the tube and then insert the magnet into the tube. See if the magnet spins up on it own. If not try spining the magnet with your right hand while the magnet is still in the tube and then lift the tube over the magnet. If the magnet spins by itself to a degree while in the tube it might help start the magnet without having to lay it down. Making the magnet start easier being upright in the tube already. This could also be done with a plastic tube as well. But try it with the paper tube first and see if it works before hunting down a plastic tube.
Like I said I am missing a lot by not having a complete setup yet so these are only suggestions until I can get my own rig working.

Xenomorph
04-22-2009, 04:42 PM
I think i understand now what you mean.
The thing is that you wont be able to spin the magnet forcefully enough while in the tube. You need to give it at least a 25 Hz rotation frequency before it kicks the circuit enough to oscillate. The circuit does not oscillate on its own.
It is the magnets rotation that starts it. And i can only manage double-handedly to give it a high enough rotational initial speed to get it going. The tube solution would be impossible with one hand only.

Lidmotor
04-23-2009, 01:50 AM
@ Jonny----Thanks for the tips on how to get the amp draw down. I followed the circuit that you posted at the beginning of the thread and it worked great.:thumbsup: Sephiroth--thanks for the tip on the coil before the Bedini coil that helped also. Here is the video of my sucess today--

YouTube - One Magnet Bedini 2. 5 volt 10 milliamp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-fETLsRiJg)


Lidmotor

Xenomorph
04-23-2009, 02:19 AM
I tried to charge a 9 Volt battery off the pickup-coils/cap:

YouTube - Charging a 9 Volt Battery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSgAz3yVV2c)

The charge turns out to be fluffy though
Cap discharging to batteries is a science for itself.
I assume i need much higher capacitance caps to get a strong charge onto the batteries and more efficient pickup coils, so the rate of discharge is fast too.

The reason that i do not constantly connect the coils to the battery or a load is the Lenz Law effect. It will essentially slow down the magnet too much, so that the resistance at the transitor base has to be lowered to keep the magnets rotation high enough to not stop. That in turn raises the amp draw too much compared to the power picked up at the other side.

@ Jonnydavro: Here is the experiment you asked me to do: YouTube - Different Coil Positions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txbn8fT6UTM)

jonnydavro
04-23-2009, 05:17 PM
@Xenomorph.Thanks for doing that test.I was kind off hoping it would capture more than it did, ohh well;) :cheers:
@Lidmotor.Thats more like it:thumbsup: I think that third winding is genious.Can't wait to see if you can get it going on your SEC.:thumbsup:
@ All.Today i tried adding a slave coil to see what would happen if i pulsed the magnet from both ends.The results were the rpm's seem to be higher and the pitch/sound off the motor increased but this would need checking with a tachometer.Here is a pic and a vid.Regards jonnydavro:thumbsup:
YouTube - One magnet no bearing Bedini motor vid 4. Master and slave coil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx-atFOp2Ds)

Mark
04-23-2009, 05:25 PM
Good idea with the slave coil Jonny. Does anyone have a tach to check the speed on one of these snake rocket spinners? Have you tried to put your pickup coils in series to boost the charge rate?

Xenomorph
04-23-2009, 06:52 PM
@Mark:
Actually a parallel setup seems to charge the cap faster than a serial setup surprisingly.
There must be very little current coming from the coils in fact.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/825/rectifiersparallel.jpg

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9871/rectifiersserial.jpg

Lidmotor
04-23-2009, 07:59 PM
I got this running stable enough to go to the next step. I have it running on super capacitors. I found that a capacitor will charge up better on the back end than the NiMh batteries I'm using so I decided to just put super caps front and back and see what happened. It worked. I don't think that my SEC is going to run this wirelessly but it can charge up a capacitor wirelessly. When that capacitor gets enough energy in it, then it could be used to run this Bedini.
I also found out that a Joule Thief will run very nicely off the air core pickup coil-- even from several inches away from the magnet.
Here is a video of the the latest.

YouTube - One Magnet Bedini--- Running on Super Capacitors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQBCwks5P_I)

Lidmotor

Mark
04-23-2009, 08:37 PM
Lidmotor that's sweet. Have you tried to make it self run yet? :cheers:

Mark
04-23-2009, 08:41 PM
Xenomorph

That really surprises me. Whould it make any difference if all the coils were in series and then had just one bridge rectifier?

Vortex
04-23-2009, 08:44 PM
If a Self-starting (self spinning) with enough power could be obtained,
then it would be easy to use two magnets, one above and one below the bifilar coil.
The above and below magnets would spin in sync with each other.
A short stack of washers, a small ball bearing in the hole and two or four magnets
on the outer edge of the washers might self start easier.
Height of magnet over the coil is probably an issue, too close to the coil and it might not spin.
Height might prevent a sphere magnet from working.
See video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Gt3ED0zLw&feature=channel_page) to see magnet configuration.

just :thinking:
Rnady

Mark
04-23-2009, 09:03 PM
Hi Vortex

Just watched your video and I'm not sure whats going on. I see all the magnets spinning on the bowls but whats powering them, sound? I dont see any coils.

jonnydavro
04-23-2009, 09:21 PM
@Lidmotor.Thats Blown me away.:thumbsup: I did not realise supercaps behave like that and don't just dump there charge.What happens when you swap caps from charge to run and how does the charge rate compare with the discharge rate of the two caps?regards jonnydavro:thumbsup:

Lidmotor
04-24-2009, 02:50 AM
It's late and I just had time to take a quick video before the wife gets home and all fun stops.
I got the SEC to link wirelessly by using a Joule Thief and super capacitors. It's pretty cool. It doesn't quite run it but it is close.:dance:

YouTube - SEC linked to Snake Egg Bedini (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuHM2Mk4CCg)

Lidmotor

jonnydavro
04-25-2009, 11:00 AM
@Lidmotor.You have done so much in a short time to move this project along.Thanks:cheers:
@ALL.Today i tested Comwarrior69's idea of using a darlington transistor instead of an npn and the results were quite interesting.I could get the magnet to maintain rotation on 3mA at 2.9V which is the lowest current draw i have had on a bedini to date.I also found that i could not get as high rpms as i can with an npn so i have asked Comwarrior if he has any suggestions on that.
The transistor i used for this test was a TIP 120.
Here is a vid of the test.Regards jonnydavro.:thumbsup:
YouTube - One magnet no bearing Bedini motor vid 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp9dWb-XeYc)

Xenomorph
04-26-2009, 03:48 PM
@Jonnydavro: This experiment doesnt stop to amaze me and your flood of cool ideas to improve this :thumbsup:

I just had an idea that you might wanna try out.
Since a darlington pair is nothing else than this connection of transistors :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Darlington_configuration.svg/150px-Darlington_configuration.svg.png

i see the possibility to insert another relay coil in the base feed of the 2nd transistor in the case that you just use two 3055s to realize the darlington pair.

The amp-draw might stay low but maybe it will speed the rotation up just like in the case of using the relay coil with just one transistor.
Just an idea.

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

Lidmotor
04-26-2009, 06:26 PM
I learned about this when I was working on the "Aromaz" project. We were pairing a 2n2222 with 2n3055s. Initially Aromaz's design had the base on the 2n2222 completely open and it was paired with a bunch of 2n3055s. We were running an ignition coil that was driving FLs. I kept burning out 2n3055s and started reducing the circuit down as I ran out of parts until it was down to just the two transistors. I actually made one circuit that was just two 2n2222s paired. I "tickled" the base of first transistor with a loop of wire around the ignition coil. It ran on low voltage and drove a CFL at dim light. I called it my " Table Candle". I ran it for days on a pack of AAs.
This Bedini design should run nicely on this Darlington pair. Havn't tried it yet but will. Today I took the energy coming off the third winding of my coil, ran it through a bridge rectifier, and sent it straight back to the source battery (0ne AA). I expected it to just kill things but it didn't.:suprise:

Jonny ----Your motor just continues to amaze me!!!:thumbsup:

Lidmotor

theremart
04-26-2009, 06:49 PM
Question,

Could one not make one "Bigger" would like to see a large neo like this spinning ... Was wondering if you could custom make one of these magenets..

jonnydavro
04-26-2009, 10:23 PM
Hi. Comwarrior has been in touch and suggested i try using 2 2SC4106 transistors so i have ordered some and will see if that speeds things up.
I would like to try 2 mpsao6 as Lid got some strange scopeshots using one so if we use two?I can't source them in the uk so may be Lid can check that out.
@Xenomorph.That suggestion could be genious.Thats what i like about this forum i mean who would of thought of trying that?.Nice one:thumbsup:
@Lidmotor.Sounds like you have got your motor running real nice.One AA battery,Sweet.:thumbsup: and feeding back to source,WOW.I think i am going to wind my coils trifilar in the future as your third winding does not seem to effect current draw to much as you have it running on 10mA or less.I think there may be plenty more suprises yet to be discovered and you may have made one today.:cheers:

Vortex
04-27-2009, 03:39 AM
Question,

Could one not make one "Bigger" would like to see a large neo like this spinning ... Was wondering if you could custom make one of these magenets..

I would think so, theremart.
Standing the snake magnet on end, the north/south poles are in the middle and point to the left/right if I understand it correctly.
I don't see why one or two, etc, neo magnet(s) could not be placed into a plastic easter egg, ending up with a similar shape and magnetic field?
I am still thinking distance is a factor. The magnet being too close to he coil would not result in spinning.
If distance is a factor, a sphere would have to be higher up off the coil than the snake egg to spin..

Just ideas and :thinking:
Randy

CosmicFarmer
04-28-2009, 01:37 AM
I replicated this device successfully YouTube - MVI 7121 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfeQrzNr8T0)

I got it to run at 12 volts (just what I had around, no AA case) and my clamp on ammeter zeroed showed about .04 amps draw and .02 amp charge. Charging the battery was a voltage of 13.05 and my resistance was around 600, but I found you can increase resistance (up to atleast 10k) once the magnet has gotten stable, and that seems to smooth things out even more, but a noted slowdown is heard. Decreasing the resistance makes the pulses too strong and usually bumps it around too violently. I greased that plastic dish with olive oil.

The 2 capacitors on the side of the choke coil had no size specified so I used flash caps from cameras. One capacitor charged up to higher then 90 volts and the other one was at 12 when I checked it.

Thinking out loud...
If the middle of these magnets could be scored and made rough, you might be able to start the rotation by drawing some sort of bow string past it, or have a device that holds the magnet by the middle with some string, and when a button is pressed the string gets pulled real fast and drops the magnet... It seems that when the "Hematite zip stone" stands up, its due to an imbalance that gets amplified to the point where it goes to flip over, and thats when it falls into the magnetic groove.

Imagine a big salad bowl. If you were to wrap magnetic wire in a spiral all over the surface of this bowl, starting in the middle and working to the outside, do you think that would be the best way to capture this magnets spin? Or would smaller rings be better pickups? or possibly just more tri-filar goodness...

Anyway, just popping in to say I did it too! :-)

Xenomorph
04-28-2009, 01:57 AM
@CosmicFarmer: Well done! The number of replicators is growing! Nice :thumbsup:

@All:

I wanna share a conceptional idea i had to make this self-start.
The idea is to use a separate 555 circuit to create the necessary pulses to the Bedini coil to push the magnet into the rotation and then to switch it over to the running circuit that would make use also of the magnets input into the coil:
I have tried this and it did not work, but maybe someone else can get it to work:

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7183/kickstarter1.jpg

The frequency could even be ramped, then i think this would really start the magnet without touching it. Like the circuit is now, i had the hope that you would just have to gently twist it a bit and then it would fall under the influence of the coils field and follow it, but maybe this cant work. :thinking:

Laurence
04-28-2009, 04:04 AM
@CosmicFarmer: Well done! The number of replicators is growing! Nice :thumbsup:

@All:

I wanna share a conceptional idea i had to make this self-start.
The idea is to use a separate 555 circuit to create the necessary pulses to the Bedini coil to push the magnet into the rotation and then to switch it over to the running circuit that would make use also of the magnets input into the coil:
I have tried this and it did not work, but maybe someone else can get it to work:

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7183/kickstarter1.jpg

The frequency could even be ramped, then i think this would really start the magnet without touching it. Like the circuit is now, i had the hope that you would just have to gently twist it a bit and then it would fall under the influence of the coils field and follow it, but maybe this cant work. :thinking:

had the same idea before reading upon your post...
though a bit different...
my idea is for the 555 to trigger the transistor thus switching the master coil.
when the magnet is up to speed (assuming it turns...hehe - it is a thought experiment after all) switch the trigger from the 555 to the trigger coil.

just my 2 cents...

CosmicFarmer
04-28-2009, 05:52 AM
wouldn't the pulse train have to initially begin slowly, and as the magnet spun up, the pulse train should follow? A feverish pulse with a stationary magnet might just make it vibrate... So in order for the signal to adjust from slow to fast, a variable has to change that the timer sees.

Hm. Possibly have spin coils seperate from the run/charge coil. Maybe all you would need is a variable speed AC signal going into a coil offset yet below the magnet, to get it spinning, and once its jumping around the drive coil takes over its normal use to finish stabilizing the magnet? Remember when the zip stone is laying down, one of its poles are facing down, and one up. Pulse the opposite pole and the mag will pop up, rotate, and slam down. Maybe if you wound a trifilar, and one wire's use is for that? The way the bedini circuit works from my understanding, is it needs the magnets movement to start the switching, yet now we are trying to force the switching to get the movement... Just seems a little backwards.

Good luck if you can do it!

Brownsville
04-28-2009, 01:47 PM
Jonnydavro - I finally got the magnet spinning and checked a 30 guage off the shelf 200 foot spool to see what kind of generation I could get - .7 volt AC up to 2.1 volt depending on if the magnet was stationary in the middle or if it was moving out around the perimeter. The highest readings came when the magnet contacted the edge of the spool.

I tried to add a second tier and get another magnet spinning - did not make it but the first magnet increased speed to where it ended up breaking the glass jar I used. Today I tried a smaller - all plastic - jar - got the same increase in speed as soon as the second magnet was removed. I think this can be done but the top of the next layer needs to very close to the top of the first magnet. The jar I tried today was still too much higher. The upper mag seemed really close to taking off a number of times.

Here is a video of the first try. YouTube - Jonnydavro-One Magnet Bedini Motor Replication (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y60gRRh3jaM) SORRY ABOUT THE CAMERA ANGLE. First time.

I need to find out where to put the probes to check my power consumption on the Bedini circuit. Please help.

The second plastic jar was a bullion container and it worked really well. I was able to make a number of changes that made it quieter. When the mag picked up speed and bumped into the side it actually accelerated even more...I am not sure that the jar helps at all though as far as the pick-up coils were concerned. It placed the coils too far away from the magnet most of the time.

Thanks for all of the suggestions to get this one going. If I can do it I am pretty sure just about anyone can.

I took the 200 foot spool of 30 guage and since there was a portion of the core hanging below the drive coil I put the coil on top and inserted the extra core. I checked the voltage and was getting a steady 0.1 volts.

I had gotten 10 of the snake mags and have tried most of them. Each one spins up differently. I also found that the small lid is much harder to get the mag up and spinning.

BTW I am using the Lidmotor coil.


Brownsville

jonnydavro
04-28-2009, 08:40 PM
@Cosmicfarmer.Thanks for replicating,you have made a real nice job and you have a real good magnet too as like Brownsville says each one has a different personality;) .Sorry about missing the cap data out.I used 35v 1000uf electrolytic caps and 1N4937 diodes.You are getting a lot of bemf, 90v so i would keep a meter on it if you change your caps.What voltage are you running your motor on?
If you are up for a bit of testing,see if you can get a load running off the relay caps,maybe a joule thief would be a good test.:thumbsup:
@Brownsville.I am glad you stuck with it and got there in the end.Nice one:thumbsup:
I know what you mean about each magnet spinning differently,have you got any that spin vertical?These seem quieter and i think they spin faster but wander about a bit.The X spinners are nice and stable but you want both types really to test.Regarding starting.You may find it easier if you turn your lid the other way so the top is completly flat and then it is easy to start with 2 hands and the X spinner is stable so you don't need the lip like you might with the vertical one.I see you are trying some interesting things,keep us informed on your progress.Happy experimenting to you both:thumbsup:

CosmicFarmer
04-29-2009, 03:06 AM
Thanks JD! Good idea on magnet choice. What inspired you anyway to choose this way?

My diodes for the relay mod I used I found in my workshop carpet... in4004. Yeah I was suprised too at the 90+ v charge, and all I can think of is that's the inductive collapse, or part of it, because back EMF wouldn't get that high? I guess my next video will show the voltage climb on that cap so I have an idea how quickly that can build up. Spin the magnet for 3 hours, 90 volts isnt that much but if it can climb that high in a few seconds... Then were talking!

--------------
EDIT
The capacitor after the diode, or the capacitor on the right of the schematic, shows 18+ volts standard operation, and the other one shows 11+ volts. When charging battery is disconnected, voltage catapulted to 65 before I put the clip back on. This is where the abnormally high voltage reading came from. So I reccommend using high voltage caps when possible just in case a spike comes through you want to keep.
------------------


I belive this has to be the next logical step for the Bedini circuit. It just simplifies so much! And its so fun. My electronics teacher was left completely befuddled.

Has anyone gotten around to ground powering this device? I saw lidmotor's vid where he was powering his SEC with the ground... I was able to pull 11 volts from the ground with a "free energy" circuit YouTube - Re: Free Energy From Air Circuit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y_EotqAn1M) which was a capacitive bridge rectifier. That charge was real fluffy though. They used air antennas in that video but I find a ground rod works better and is easier to maintain. I could only get 11 volts after a ~10 second charge time.


Yeah I got a bunch of those magnets, I guess all I needed was an excuse to buy them. I have a regular storehouse of every type of magnet I found, and only the rounded snake egg magnets work for me. The smaller hematite stones are uneven and when I get it to spin it just goes wild.

I guess my next project is to make a joule theif... But I doubt I can get mine as cool as Lidmotor's R2D2.

Anyone have any experience with the "jt spinner" ? YouTube - jt "spinner" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr1q1t8GXZ8&feature=related)
It looks the same and acts the same, but no batteries and a big toroid added.

I think I'll try making colloid silver with this... having good luck with 27 volts DC though.
:dance:

Xenomorph
04-29-2009, 12:50 PM
@CosmicFarmer : I have experimented with Joe Tate ambient power modules, but the voltage i got was not very high and the current was in the micro-ampere range. Only next to a CFL it would pickup substantial energy.
Interesting that you have run it entirely on a ground rod. :thinking:

Probably an earth battery could power this one magnet motor (maybe with DC/DC voltage doubling or so).
I got mine down to below 5 mA amp-draw (@2.8V) now too, so that opens up many possibilities.

With the one magnet Bedini setup i have tried connecting a ground rod to the pickup-coil capacitor too see if that would boost the charging of it, but it hasnt.

Xenomorph
04-29-2009, 07:02 PM
Just a little demo on how it performs. It cannot tumble, but it needs to be seen if it compares to the snake eggs performancewise.

YouTube - SphereShaped (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4kiNi_wUm8)

jonnydavro
04-30-2009, 10:06 PM
Hi.Today i got a new laser tachometer to try and find out how fast the snake egg is spinning.I was using 7.5v(5x1.5v batteries) for the test and the vertical spinning egg.I found that the egg would go over 17000rpm at this voltage and 15mA.I chose this voltage as i can stabilise the egg a lot easier than when at 12v but 12v is a lot faster for sure.Here is a pic of it doing 16800rpm:thumbsup:

@Xenomorph.I have also tried the balls but found them rather jerky,but they look a lot smoother in your video than mine so it would be interesting to compare the two but they are certainly a good alternative and warrant further study.I have tried today to get the spheres rpm with my tacho but i cannot keep the beam on the ball to get a reading.Maybe you could use that audio analysis method you mentioned?:thumbsup:

CosmicFarmer
04-30-2009, 10:30 PM
Aah no not yet, I havn't powered it from the ground yet. Thats todays experiment. Just got out from digging a big hole for my zinc and rewiring my house. I am pulling .857 v as soon as I hooked it up but I will let it entrain more, through a couple of days. Anyone have a good idea as a load? I'm just going to use a 100 ohm resistor because thats the lowest I have laying around. I heard if you constantly monitor something picking up earth energy it will increase for you.

Anyway, I was just hoping at best I'll reduce amp draw because the bedini circuit could be improved through grounding at certain points. I dont know if I will achive my goal, but here it is:

1 magnet motor on top of a totem like pole, under it a light and colloidal silver gen, under that a battery charging port, attached to a copper pole. 1 peice unit, just whack it in the ground and you got light, health, and power. Somehow weatherize it, and sell it to survival nuts ;-) or just keep it :)

So the trick is to get the bedini circuit to supply the pulsed hv to the ground, and use something else to pick up the power. Chances are I wont get it working right before the end of the world but atleast I'm not afraid of that swine flu.

Have fun!:dance:

jonnydavro
05-01-2009, 09:53 AM
Hi.Today i did an experiment to see how economical this motor is and it will run quite happily on a 1.5v watch battery at 4mA.Here is a vid.
Regards jonnydavro:thumbsup:
YouTube - One magnet no bearing Bedini motor 1.5 volt watch battery test vid 6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7G1D4OaUao)

Mark
05-01-2009, 01:02 PM
Sweet Jonny!

Seems like you could run that off a couple of earth batteries in parallel :thinking:

I finally got one running and my snake egg will stand straight up like yours on one end and wobble on the other end. I found a great glass bowl to run it in. Starts up real easy but is a little noisy. I need to find a plastic bowl the same shape. When I run mine so it spinns totally up right when it gets going real fast it ends up flying out of the bowl.:rofl:

MWReactor
05-01-2009, 07:01 PM
my I suguest you try covering the core with Mu metal,, it is a magnetic shielding. look around for it,, you can find it on the net. just a thought.

tai61
05-02-2009, 10:02 AM
hi, thanks jonny for the o.m.n.b. motor, just a quick note found teflon dry glide in a spray can sprayed onto lid ,increased rpm and cut amp rate a bite cheers tai

jonnydavro
05-03-2009, 09:28 PM
Hi.Over the last couple off days i have been testing the darlington config with some interesting results.
I found for speed and current draw,one transistor was better but what was really interesting was this.I use a 12v relay coil in the trigger circuit.Sephiroth discovered that if you use just the coil in series with the trigger circuit you can drop your amps and its worked a treat on all my Bedini's to date, anyway Xenomorph picked up on the fact that you could put one in between the emitter off T1 and the Base off T2.I have tried this config and it works i found better than the standard darlington setup and there is the added benefit off being able to recover bemf from this relay coil as well.
I have enclosed the circuit i used if anybody wants to test,but i think Xenomorph might have invented a new component.If you put this transistor setup in one package you would have a Darlington transistor with a voltage output.What you going to call it Xenomorph?:thumbsup:
@Mark.Hi.Glad to hear your in business.Sounds like you've got a nice magnet and wouldn't it be great to see this on an earth battery.I think it's doable.Any chance of a pic.
@MWREACTOR.Thanks for your suggestions:thumbsup:
@tai61.Thanks tai.My interest is low power motors so anything that gets the draw down is a step in the right direction.At the moment if i drop 1mA thats a 25% drop in consumption so ill look out for it.Any pics to show us?:cheers:

Xenomorph
05-04-2009, 12:39 AM
@Jonnydavro: Very nice that you managed to integrate this :thumbsup:

I believe that with different inductances you could maybe "tune" the circuit for lower amp-draw by adjusting to different resonances. I wonder if variable inductors would do the same job as the relay coils? That would make it hard to tap the energy though off the inductor.

Xenomorph
05-04-2009, 10:54 PM
For the folks that still ponder about how this one magnet motor works, here it gets explained to you by an MIT professor in the course of a lecture : :thumbsup:

YouTube - Lec 18 | MIT 8.02 Electricity and Magnetism, Spring 2002 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGaSeSP0tCM&feature=player_embedded)

tai61
05-05-2009, 11:00 AM
[x, that was one cool vid especially for a newby,but i wonder as i am getting about 1.5 v out of my air core only when the magnet spins by could a window motor type coil surrounding the whole mag platform work to give constant power. got no more wire to do this myself,cheers tai
xQUOTE=Xenomorph;53683]For the folks that still ponder about how this one magnet motor works, here it gets explained to you by an MIT professor in the course of a lecture : :thumbsup:

YouTube - Lec 18 | MIT 8.02 Electricity and Magnetism, Spring 2002 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGaSeSP0tCM&feature=player_embedded)[/QUOTE]

Xenomorph
05-05-2009, 01:13 PM
but i wonder as i am getting about 1.5 v out of my air core only when the magnet spins by could a window motor type coil surrounding the whole mag platform work to give constant power. got no more wire to do this myself,

Remember that Lenz law will work against the rotation of the magnet when you do that. There is a sweet spot where you can extract some energy (constantly) without stalling the magnets rotation too much.

In my experience only coils that are perpendicular to the magnets spinning axis deliver the highest output. Coils that are put around the magnet (parallel to it) do hardly give off any energy, since their area is not being permeated with enough flux. The flux vector is pointing in a 90 degree angle from the rotation axis away from the magnet.

I recommend you to experiment with collecting the energy in caps and then discharging it in a timed fashion. Thats the only way to minimize the lenz effect.

CosmicFarmer
05-05-2009, 05:25 PM
Allright, some basic results from a 3 day test.

First I tried the circuit with ccw rotation and the choke relay and caps. Over the course of 2 days (stopping at night, its noisy for neighbors) I was able to charge the charge battery from 12.16 to 12.42 volts, a gain of .26v, with an average current in of .01 - .04 a measured with craftsman clamp meter. The discharge battery discharged from 12.79 to 12.58, with a loss of .21 ... In the morning the batteries read 12.39 for charge and 12.63 for run, for a net gain of .23 v from a net loss of .16 v. .07 v from thin air?

Then I spun the magnet clockwise. Multiple periods of several hours straight the charge battery did not charge nor did the discharge battery drop any volts. It seemed that it was running for free. When I first spun the magnet there was a normal drop in voltage from 12.67 (run) to 12.59 (2 hours) but then for 3 hours the voltage remained at 12.59. Then it went down .01 every 30 or so minutes, untill it gave up and fell over :-)

Then I decided to add a northern copper ground rod connection to the + of the charge battery and a southern "zinc" ground strip connection to the - of the run battery. I say "zinc" because it was supposedly zinc coated... This ground battery gets me if I remember correctly .6 v unhooked.

I noticed when I hooked up the batteries before the run that current was flowing when the magnet wasnt moving. Both batteries were being discharged slowly! I continued the experiment, with counter clockwise mag rotation, but had to stop because charging battery dropped back down to 12.16, and I lost all I gained in a few hours. Run battery dropped down to 12.45 from 12.62.

Next I will switch the ground connections, maybe that will help, There is a possibility that I mixed the wires up and had em backwards but I triple checked to make sure.

Here is my report. ( I tried to format with spaces but it didnt work)

Time Charge batt (volts/amps) Run batt (volts/amps) Notes
1800 12.16 / .03 12.79/ .03 Start, ccw, 600 o
1827 12.22 / .04 12.67/ .03 1.945k o
1919 12.29 /.02-.04 12.63/ .03
2030 12.32 / .04 12.63/ .04 (no change?)
2200 12.37 / .03-.07 12.60/ .03-.07
2349 12.42 12.59 stopped for night.
------------------------
1200 12.42 12.71 bounceback
1257 12.39/ .03-.07 12.57/ .03-.07 Diffuculty starting.
1308 12.38/ .01 12.61 ccw rotation
1336 12.37/ .01-.04 12.62/.02-.03 keeps falling over
1503 12.38/.01-.03 12.63/.01-.02 2.8k o
1529 12.38 12.63 Fell over.
-------------------------
1641 12.36/.01-.03 12.67/.00 .02 Start. CW rotation.
1853 12.40/.00-.03 12.59/.02-.03
2034 12.42/ .02-.03 12.57/ .00-.01
2157 12.42 12.58 Increased resistance?
--------------------------
0000 12.39 12.63 Bounceback
1500 12.35 12.65 Bounceback
--------------------------
1530 12.34 12.62 Added grounds, start.
1555 ---- no data ----
1630 12.25/.05-.08 12.49/ .05-.07 Current draw up
1645 12.22/ .05-.07 12.47/ .05 .1 Both batteries discharge
1800 12.16/ .05-.07 12.45/ .07-.9 Stopped.
---------------------------

How I measured current:

Took ammeter and held next to - wire on battery. Waited for numbers to stablize. Pressed zero button. saw 00.00 hold for 2 seconds. clipped onto wire. Waited 5 seconds, took average. Un-zeroed, repeat for other wire.


I started the motor with usually around 600 ohms on pot, then clipped ammeter on run battery - lead, and adjusted untill I could get it as low as I could. Got it to 00.00 sometimes.

I took a fresh spool of green magnetwire from radio shack and stripped the 2 ends, hooked to voltmeter. Held it in various places over, next to magnet. even had the magnet on the inside of the spool spinning and took that measurement. Highest voltage was when magnet was stable on outside rim and I could put spool perpendicular for longer then 3 seconds, read over 2.1 v. when magnet was inside the spool, friction caused it to slow down a little, but could only get .5 or so volts. Another note, is that on the edge, the magnet seems more stable, but in the middle it tends to do the X pattern, and get noisy. I might need a new dancefloor, because it wore a divot in the middle.

Thats it for now. I would have completed the reversing the grounds experiment but I have finals, and I thought you guys would be interested in my findings so far.

:dance:

Xenomorph
05-05-2009, 06:07 PM
@CosmicFarmer

Your tests are valuable! Even though they are not a success. I am having troubles getting this to get real charge beyond the ordinary Bedini application.

I have not too deeply gotten into earth batteries, but

it does not surprise me that your run battery discharged, because

ONLY if your earth battery would have a potential HIGHER than your run battery (approx. >= +2 V above battery to be charged)

you could expect any beneficial effect (like charging it).

The way you have done it is that you essentially "charged" mother earth ;)

because your run battery has the higher potential 12 V as opposed to 0.6V (earth battery)

However a single earth ground hooked to the negative of a battery can improve charging of Bedini setups.
Aaron has done it.

Xenomorph
05-05-2009, 10:51 PM
A new video i made of a new pickup-coil i just finished:

YouTube - BiggerPickupCoil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVCKIWey420)

Looks like one needs coils with insane turn-counts (many thousands)
to effectively make use of the induction due to the magnet.

Brownsville
05-05-2009, 11:20 PM
I had to play a little last Sunday. I wound a 26 guage coil around the plastic jar to check on electric generation. The coil was only about 60 feet of wire - did not count the winds. The coil produced a small voltage when surrounding the magnet and also when held outside of the magnet at a 90 degree position. The interesting part was the jump it took when held at about a 15 degree angle as you can see in the video.

Perhaps Xenomorph or someone else could see if holding the coils similarly to the vid increases the volts. Mine went from .2 to almost 4 volts AC.

Here is the link. YouTube - JonnyDavro one magnet no bearing Bedini - pick up coil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqO9WNnb0Gc)

Brownsville

Xenomorph
05-06-2009, 01:01 AM
@Brownsville: Cool that you experiment with picking up energy.

When you changed the angle, you altered the EMF which is partially dependant on the area being permeated by the magnetic field of the magnet.
As stated before, surrounding the magnet with wire is not permeating the coil area sufficiently (close to zero), because the cosine of the angle between the area vector and the magnetic field vector is zero (cos 90 degrees = 0)

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/6083/magmit1.jpg

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7628/magmit2.jpg

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/91/magmit3.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/9596/magme.jpg

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7674/magme2.jpg

Because of slight angular deviations in the magnets rotation, theta is
effectively always a bit smaller than 90 degrees, thereby resulting in
a small EMF, as you have measured with your Multimeter.
The highest induced EMF is possible when the changes in the flux are maximal
which is only possible with a perpendicular coil position.

EDIT: I have pondered about Brownsvilles obervation again and think i have found the explanation for his 15 degree maximum. In that angle the magnet can hit the coil with both of its poles while it transits around the center of the coil. It is sometimes left of the coil, sometimes right due to the bumping.
However the angle theta is small and therefore
the flux change is far from optimal. Placing multiple perpendicular coils will yield in higher output than
15 degree coils. But it is interesting trying to rationalize why this happened.

el-tigre
05-07-2009, 02:09 AM
Interesting line of research this crew has going, great work.

Here is a thought for you for a potentially exponential improvement...

get some superconducting material and float your neo sphere above it in the Meissner effect

Meissner effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meissner_effect#See_also)

mount your Bedini coil above the floating neo and pump a narrow jet of air on the magnet to get it up to rotational trigger speed. After that, if you can keep it stabilized, you should achieve extraordinary rotational speeds due to near frictionless conditions. I suspect the only limitation would be the switching speed of the transistor so get a fast one.

The next step for this apparatus would be to mount it all inside a collection coil.

el-tigre
05-08-2009, 03:34 PM
Gentlemen,

A little help please.

Based on your work, I have successfully built and run a Bedini top. It is still in the early stage of construction and has not been optimized for either mechanical or electrical output. That said, this thing really howls. The charge rate is remarkably fast as is the rpms. I have a laser tach but seem to be unable to obtain a good reading. Several times I have recorded rpms exceeding 65,000 and greater. Some times the meter reads 99,000, the max the unit is rated for. When the top slows down, I routinely read rpms descending through 30,000 down to the teens then single digits.

It seems improbable to me that I am generating this high an rpm, so I need to have some alternatives for measuring RPM if you can make some suggestions. (Although it did bump against my thumb for a moment and even though it has a smooth surface, it promptly sanded off the skin enough to make me take notice!!! It also spins fast enough to force the high powered neo's I am using out against the retaining lip. They snap back when rpms drop low enough. That is lots of centrifugal force considering the diameter of the top is only about 3 inches and the neos are very strong, which seems to confirm high rpm)

Construction is fairly simple and it runs very stable compared to the oval magnets many are experimenting with now. I am using a flat plate of glass above the bifilar coil and the top spins on that. It must be guided by an arm on the upper top shaft so it doesn't wander around.

I think I can explain why spheres and ovals wander around a lot. I have observed a clearly defined magnetic dead spot centered above the coil. When the top enters this zone, no amperage flows through the coil, however, when it starts to leave, the coil triggers again and gives the top a kick outwards thus exagerating the eliptical orbit. I achieve stability by forcing the top to stay in an area off center to the coil.

There are 2 or 3 sweet spots for tuning and I get max charging at about 150ma powered by 14v nicd drill battery. Until I put some containment safety measures in place, I'm afraid to test the top to full current draw and rpm. (I may have to buy a bullet proof vest to continue testing this little demon)

Xenomorph
05-08-2009, 04:33 PM
Jonnydavro and others including myself have more stable rotations with lower voltages like 2-3 Volt , you might wanna try that. A high rotation speed also draws a lot more current, so depending on what you wanna do (lift off or something) that can be an adverse effect or help you get this thing to become a projectile.

CosmicFarmer
05-08-2009, 05:45 PM
@El-tigre : You seem to have a most awesome grinder. I hope you used some really hard thick glass for that table because in 3 days what I had was ground to bits almost.

When I get some time I`ll just do the negative ground like advised but for now its kinda busy. I guess if you hooked up a load to an externally made pickup coil it would slow the magnet down, but I heard a cap wouldn`t? and arent people having trouble keeping fluffy voltage off of cap charged batteries?
hmm.
one idea a friend of mine had was use something like these rotating stones as jewelery somehow and use that jewlery to activate some sort of automatic door, like at an exclusive club. Example might be in a certain club the door would only open when your magnet was 3200 rpm or something, and another one much faster. So you would have to use that top idea that el-tigre was making, but have a clear area close to the magnet, and some how make it all wearable, like circuits in clothing. Thats not too crazy is it?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :beamup:

more seriously, how was I able to get that .13 volts before I added the grounds? You think a combo of fluffy voltage, and dead batteries charging faster then full ones discharge? but thats a significant number. Same batterys 12v 4.5ah .

Confounding.:dance:

Xenomorph
05-08-2009, 06:47 PM
@CosmicFarmer:

how was I able to get that .13 volts before I added the grounds? You think a combo of fluffy voltage, and dead batteries charging faster then full ones discharge?

You have not mentioned where you actually tapped the energy to charge the battery, i assumed you talk about the typical off-collector-radiant-charging.
That charge is not fluffy at all !
I was referring to make use of the magnets motion to tap additional energy on top of the charging battery from the collector by using aircore pickup coils and this charging circuit turned out to be somewhat fluffy.
But the reason for that is that it is a long road to narrow in on wire gauge, turn count, capacitor choice, discharge interval etc.
I dont see any reason why this shouldnt work with the right specs.

jonnydavro
05-10-2009, 10:30 PM
Hi all.Some great things going on here with the charging and pick up coil tests and one mag variations.I have been busy also, exploring alternative ways off powering the motor and can run it quite happily of a solar garden led light which will charge two 2.7v 20f supercaps in 10 minutes.I can also charge a supercap via a dynamo torch i have modified in a about one minute.The motor will run for hours on this charge.I have made a vid so you can see what i mean.
YouTube - One magnet no bearing clockwork Bedini .vid 7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3sWfhtvgAU)
@El-tigre .Have you put a small piece of reflective tape on your rotor?This will help your tacho get a more accurate reading.Have you got a pic of your rotor to show us?
@Xenomorph.Thanks for all the great information you have found.
I am still working on the darlington setup as different transistors give vastly different results and there are lots of possible combinations but i will test a few each week.Check your pm:thumbsup:

el-tigre
05-11-2009, 02:48 AM
Hi Jonny

Thanks for getting back to me, I do have reflective tape on both the top and side of the top. I thought the top metal might be too shiny so I added some black tape and also tried some green tape plus reflector and no luck with accurate tach readings.

Sorry for messy pics attached, my lab needs a clean up but no time as usual. I have learned that placement of the coil is key to min amp draw and max charging and top stability.

This rig seems to run best at a wide coil gap of about 1" plus an angle of about 20 deg. drawing 27ma average. The coil also needs to be offset by about .5 diameter. I also need an arm to keep the top from wandering off my glass dance floor. The one in the pic is just a flex copper tube with a hole about 2x shaft diam. drilled in it.

You must spin up the top to about 1,000 rpm and have the coil tight to the glass to get it started, after it spins up for about 30 seconds you can back everything off for min. power consumption. It will run with less than 10ma even in this early stage of testing. about 4000 ohms resistance is in the circuit along with a choke coil (thx. Sepiroth) This configuration has a long way to go for optimization. Definitely worth testing further.

I am currently building a better top. Coil position adjustments are critical to optimum performance and need to be in micrometer increments. I will also build a cross slide with height and tilt adjustment to accomplish this when I have time. Right now I have just spun some threaded rod through a plastic block and I can twist the height and angle up and down while manually sliding the coil around. this makes a huge difference to operation.

synchro
05-12-2009, 07:04 PM
The diameter of the magnet top is slowing your R.P.M.s down. Newton's first law of motion states that Force equal Mass times acceleratio: F=MA, this means a smaller mass magnet roter spinning faster can deliver more force. My idea is to spin a diametrically magnatized tube magnet with a 3/4 or 1 inch diameter. This should produce 10 times the R.P.M.'s hence ten times the mass equivelant for force. Force and magnet strength are directly proportional to output, therefore a small high strength fast spinning magnet rotor should maxamize output, tourqe the enemy! A polyphase parrot cage like the Daftman demonstrates in his construction video would perhaps work best for an output coil. Magnet4less has these tubes for a few bucks online,
60 lb pull.

Xenomorph
05-13-2009, 06:09 PM
@synchro:

Can you state an equation where force finds its way into the induction process?
Just curious, since i only know that the magnetic field strength is proportional to the output.

Maybe it can be subcategorizes under flux change which is time dependant and with a higher rotational speed
the flux change differential is higher.

10 x more speed might really make a projectile out of this thing. According to some measurements being taken here
that would yield in more than half a million RPM !

synchro
05-14-2009, 06:17 AM
Force is the power of the magnetic field to overcome reluctance in the output
coil. The greater the force powering the magnetic field, the more reactionary Lenz force it can overcome and hence the greater the output. The larger roter configuration was clocked at around four thousand R.P.M. A roter with ten times less mass traveling at 40,000 R.P.M would deliver an equivilant force. The spin rates in the 2.5 KHZ range are nearly four times that. My analysis is the reverse of the traditional one that favors a large diameter for the roter taking advantage of the leverage arm for tourque, and a smaller one for the generator roter. These inner coil magnet speeds are nearly supersonic, a dangerous speed to experiment with as larger Neos have a tendency to fragment. I believe the small amount of input power required to spin a smaller diameter magnet at these higher R.P.M.s will allow a compact self running battery charger to be built that will perform like Bedini's bicycle wheel diameter self running energizer oscillator. The whole thing would fit nicely inside a P.V.C pipe for safty. I believe this line of experimentation is on the threshold of a major breakthrough in the field of power generation. These small diameter bearingless magnet roters can have enourmous field strength!

jonnydavro
05-14-2009, 01:16 PM
Hi.I have some N42 20mm x 20mm with 6mm hole Diametricly magnetised cylinder magnets which i have got for another motor i am working on and i wondered if i could adapt them to work on the one mag bedini and i have and it spins fast.Is what i did was i placed an 8mm ball bearing in the hole as a pivot and it is very easy to start and it triggers the transistor from 8 inches above the coil but it gets even better.I can run multiple rotors at the same time and current draw does not seem to be affected.In the video i am running a snake egg and the N42 cylinder at the same time.I have another N42 and will try and get the 2 N42's going but i thought i would let you know what i have for now.Here are some pics and a vid.Regards Jonnydavro:thumbsup:

YouTube - One magnet no bearing Bedini motor.New rotor and multiple rotor tests (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTG2U8e6Mdo)

Mark
05-14-2009, 01:51 PM
Awesome Jonny!

That really gets me thinking about a new motor design. Has anyone tried to use the power and trigger coil with a hollow core, or a partially hollow core? I just got my to spin up with a hollow core but the magnet wont center well.

Vortex
05-14-2009, 03:51 PM
Hi.I have some N42 20mm x 20mm with 6mm hole Diametricly magnetised cylinder magnets which i have got for another motor i am working on and i wondered if i could adapt them to work on the one mag bedini and i have and it spins fast.Is what i did was i placed an 8mm ball bearing in the hole as a pivot and it is very easy to start and it triggers the transistor from 8 inches above the coil but it gets even better.I can run multiple rotors at the same time and current draw does not seem to be affected.In the video i am running a snake egg and the N42 cylinder at the same time.I have another N42 and will try and get the 2 N42's going but i thought i would let you know what i have for now.Here are some pics and a vid.Regards Jonnydavro:thumbsup:

YouTube - One magnet no bearing Bedini motor.New rotor and multiple rotor tests (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTG2U8e6Mdo)

Oh boy.. 100 kazzilon N42s stacked to the moon !! :blowout:

el-tigre
05-15-2009, 03:24 AM
Hi.I have some N42 20mm x 20mm with 6mm hole Diametricly magnetised cylinder magnets which i have got for another motor i am working on and i wondered if i could adapt them to work on the one mag bedini and i have and it spins fast.Is what i did was i placed an 8mm ball bearing in the hole as a pivot and it is very easy to start and it triggers the transistor from 8 inches above the coil

Hey Jonny, In my latest test of the top design, I suspended the top from its shaft on a neo cylinder strong enough to hold it up and so the top has very little friction at all now and the suspending magnet has the added bonus of keeping the top in one location. it cut my power consumption quite a lot. I can get the rig to run consistently on about 6 ma! at 15v. and it still charges 2 drill batteries nicely at 14ma.

you may want to try suspending your n42, just put a pin through a board and see if the ball bearing you are using will stick to it enough to hold it up. Or put a nail up through the magnet and use another magnet to suspend it. Friction goes way down and so did my power consumption.

The next step has to be a diamagnetic or superconducting levitation Bedini motor resulting in near frictionless hyperspeed rotation. Who will be the first to build one... :thinking:

jonnydavro
05-15-2009, 11:31 AM
@Synchro.I think your tube magnet idea has opened a new chapter in this project and my initial tests look really promising.This morning i had 2 N42'S spinning and it was quite easy to start so things may start to get intresting.You sound familiar, are you Zebok from utube?If so HELLO,If not HELLO:thumbsup:
@Xenomorph.Hi.I put the tacho on the new rotor this morning using an aircore coil and it was doing 15400rpm on 6.5v at 29mA.I will try to get a reading when using a core later as when using a core the max magnetic field acting on the magnet is stronger some way above the coil so i will have to play around and find the best height.
I also did a quick test with my pick up coil using a real power hungry red Led and it lit it from 7" away so thats looking real promising and goes some way to confirm Synchro's theory on the benefits of using a strong rotor magnet.:thumbsup:
I have also got 2 N42's spinning now and you will be suprised when you see that setup but i will have to go and find a new Lid from the supermarket as i only have one good one.:thumbsup:
@Mark.thanks.I am experimenting with air core and maybe able to help on the centering problem.I will try and post a pic later as i can control the strong cylinder mag but i don't know if it will work for the snake egg as it requires a real strong magnet.This is the great thing about this forum and sharing idea's.One thing leads to another. :thumbsup:
@El-tigre.Sounds like you have a real nice low friction setup with some great charging going on.Your suspended top idea is great and i can see maybe a way off incorparating your idea.Thanks for sharing.:thumbsup:

jonnydavro
05-15-2009, 04:57 PM
Hi.Here is a vid of two N42's spinning.I am using an air core power coil for this test and it is pretty easy to start but getting them synced so they can be spun up to top speed together is a bit more tricky but doable.I found that if i just place stands next to the power coil,these magnets are strong enough to trigger the transistor from a distance and this setup seems to work really well.Regards jonnydavro:thumbsup:

YouTube - One magnet no bearing Bedini motor .Twin rotor Test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXWYKgTh1_k)

jonnydavro
05-15-2009, 09:26 PM
Hi.I subscibe to smw1998a on utube and thought you may be interested in his work.He makes some great bedini motors amongst other things and he has replicated the snake egg Bedini and put it on a scope.In his first vid he clocks it at 24000rpm and in his second 33600rpm.Here are links to his vids.Regards jonny:thumbsup:
YouTube - Snake Egg Replication (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tLhlQIZ70o&feature=channel_page)

YouTube - The Snake Egg Rotor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra1vPU1F6zI&feature=channel_page)

synchro
05-15-2009, 10:20 PM
Jonny,
Synchro and Zebok are the same guy. The reports of prolonged coasting have me wondering if there isn't a third factor at work, the possibility of Magnetic Vortex Implosion! something to be aware of and watch for; whereby the Magnetic Vortex begins to spin at a faster rate then the magnet, an effect experimentally achieved and theorised about by Victor Schauberger. This effect can be witnessed in the final flushing suction of the ordinary toilet. It's possible the field may begin to start to race ahead of the roter, and the magnet roter has to try and catch up and begins to trigger the reinforcing coil pulse from behind. This theory may help explain any signs of overunity.

The multiple magnet demonstration is an awesome accomplishment. I can't overstate my optimisem about the possibilities at this point. I am really dizzy with excitement right now.

jonnydavro
05-15-2009, 10:42 PM
@Synchro.Hi.:thumbsup: I thought it was you.Glad you made it over here but i see you have been a member for a while and not posted so much but you have lots off knowledge and i thankyou for sharing your ideas.Your magnetic vortex theory is real interesting but how would i know something like this is going on?I have no serious test equipment like oscilloscopes.I make all my motors in my kitchen and you should see the aggro that causes so the last thing i need is a magnetic vortex implosion :rofl: .what should i look for?
Have you seen"economy magnetic motors" by jondepew on utube.I wonder if this is similar to what he is doing but on a smaller scale.Have a look and see what you think.
I hope you get back to your lab soon so you can join in with the experiments as like you i think there are quite a few discoveries to be made yet.Kind regards jonny:thumbsup:

jonnydavro
05-16-2009, 08:07 AM
Hi.Some people who want to try the cylinder rotor are finding it hard to find diametricaly magnetised N42 cylinder mags with a hole so this is where i get mine from and i think they ship international.:thumbsup:

First4magnets - High Performance Magnets & Outstanding Service. (http://www.first4magnets.com/)

jonnydavro
05-16-2009, 04:21 PM
Hi.Today i did some coil orientation tests and the coil seems to power the rotor in any postion and from positions which won't work with a standard Bedini.I made a vid so you can see what i mean.Regards jonny:thumbsup:

YouTube - One magnet no bearing Bedini motor.Coil orientation test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y62-5aSiKo)

synchro
05-16-2009, 09:38 PM
I'm just having a little fun with that Whip Mag run away scare. What's really exciting here is the mono pulse multi rotor effect. The Searle moter generator is in that catagory, but his invention is cumbersome and costly compared to the prospects your discovery leads to. You stated you were searching for a way to use both ends of the coil, looks like you found one and the middle too! The pulse coil appears to be brodcasting a magnetic field in all dirctions like a radio beacon. Any number of radios does nothing to diminish the strength of the broadcast signal. The principle is probably roughly the same here for this apparatus. The implications are quantum leap!:thanks:

Vortex
05-16-2009, 11:49 PM
jonnydavro shows coil orientation does not matter...
As you all can see from this video.
ECONOMY MAGNETIC MOTORS / Equilibrius Grid / Jon DePew (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Gt3ED0zLw)
The magnets will all sync up and spin together.
One coil can power ?unlimited? number of magnets.:thinking:
In possibly ?unlimited? number of levels.:thinking:

I spoke about this once before here (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4026-one-magnet-no-bearing-bedini-motor-3.html#post52654).

A test might be as jonnydavro has done, start a magnet on top of the coil
and then place it down at the side of the coil. Start another and place it
on the side, etc. Next would be to try them in a row so that the 1st magnet is powering the 2nd magnet... The 2nd magnet is not powered by being next to the coil.

Coil ... 1st magnet on side ... 2nd magnet on side of 1st magnet.

Just :thinking:
Randy

Jbignes5
05-17-2009, 12:55 AM
Every time I turn around you are on the cusp of discovering new quirks about this stuff! Awesome Jonny! Simply Awesome!

Now start throwing some coils into the mix and see if you can get anything usefull out of it all. Using multiple magnets would be ok but don't they have to be rotating the opposit direction from the first? Like gears or does it work the same as the original coil to first magnet?

Think of the posibilities here 1 coil running at low volts and even low ma current draw, 50 magnets spinning end to end each with a coil hooked to a bus bar collector. What does an air coil generate for current each... Hmmm this seems to good to be true.

Welp keep up the great discovering Jonny and the rest be looking forward to your next leap into the magnet mystery.

Hmmm vortex reminds me of something. The shape of the magnet might have alot to do with it. Think of it as a funnel on both ends no matter how you orient the original source it will continue to channel the magnetic force the same way causing it to continue to spin in the exact way that it was started, thru the centers of the sources of magnetic flux. In the case of the coil it is generated but the magnets it is a constant channel. You said you could power an led from a coil 8 inches away and it doesn't alter the magnets path? There might be something to this then. If you could work out the daisey chain of magnets. That would be one big magnetic flux field whirling away at even faster speeds then the magnets could ever do.
If you can get multiple mags running in a row then use your led detector coil to see the fields boundries and any anomolies it might have like external vortexes outside of the normal magnetic boundry. Hmmm I got to try this now lol...

jonnydavro
05-17-2009, 08:14 AM
@Vortex.Hi.:thumbsup: I think you maybe right and this is maybe what jondepew is doing but won't tell.I suspect it is.I was trying to think who posted the link to his vid so thanks for that.
From the experiments i have done,it seems the coil is at the centre of a magnetic bubble and if the rotor is placed within that bubble,it will spin.
Your idea of rows and chains of magnets is interesting and may work.These magnets are so strong that if i hold an other one in my hand a meter away,i can feel it vibrating so they certainly can have an influence on each other.Wether its enough to get another magnet spinning we shall see but every time i think something won't work and try it with this motor it works so i am taking a new approach with this motor and not thinking standard Bedini.Keep your great idea's coming as we are all in this together.:thumbsup: Regards jonny
@Jbignes5.Hi.:thumbsup:The initial tests i have done with my pickup coil show that this new rotor generates a much stronger magnetic field than the snake egg and this has reflected in like for like tests.With the snake egg,using the same pickup coil,i can light the led from 2 inches and with the new rotor 8 inches.This new rotor is also a lot more stable so the pickup coil has a much reduced disturbance effect on the magnet.
I don't know if you have seen some of my other Bedini vids but i have been interested in multi rotor Bedini's for a while and have only ever run 2 magnets of a master coil as each magnet operating off the master will trigger it and if they are not in sync they end up fighting each other.My solution to this was to use slave coils,that way there is no triggering issue here is a vid of my 4 rotor bedini so you can see the idea.This could be employed on this motor.But like i said to Vortex.I am taking a new approach with this motor so i will try anything.Glad your thinking about trying this.You won't be disapointed.Regards jonny:thumbsup:
YouTube - Four Rotor Bedini Motor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCIjIMDsGVs)

Jbignes5
05-17-2009, 02:38 PM
You have to understand that this is not entirely the traditional bendini motor. You have stumbled onto a new approach to this concept. You proved it by noticing that no matter where you put the rotor, with your current setup, it works so now you have to adjust your thinking and go into new territory. I would go from the fact that this is something new! A new priciple that works with the new rotor setup you have. You have to start from scratch in your thinking in order to advance. Which I believe you are now understanding. Keep going and keep experimenting. You will find many more suprises I bet waiting to be discovered.
The reason that I brought up the subject of counter rotating magnetic flux fields is that might be the reason you were having trouble starting more then one rotor. It might work that way when starting other rotors with the same config off of the 1st magnetic rotor. Seeing that the new rotors are way more powerful it might be better to give them alittle more room and let them find thier own spot to rotate in the begining when adding more rotors to the setup. ^(coil)v ^(rotor1)v ^(rotor2)v ^(etc)v. Once you have found the sweet spots they should auto maintain them selves but that is just a guess for now. A better experiment would be to determine the spin orientation to the coil then try to figure out if they are in sync or counter spining with each other. Also one other reason they could be spinning so fast, compared to the output of the coil, could be because of the slingshot effect and the magnetic bounce amplification from outside the setup. If there is zero resistance to an external vortex it could concievably go way faster then the output of the coil which could be draging the rotor along minus the resistance on the rotor from friction and it's own weight. Thats why I suggested to use your led coil setup to detect any weird hot spots outside the normal fields this should make. Especially when you add more rotors.
Just a few more suggestions to try.

jbignes5

synchro
05-17-2009, 07:53 PM
I believe the very high spinning tube magnet R.P.M. is building broadcast strength into the magnetic pulse. The high frequency pulse energizes the coil and magnifys the coils power. I think a ring of long diametrically polarized tube magnets 6 or 8 inches long, perhaps suspended on swivals or just spinning with a ball on the bottem and a pin through the top, like Wind Chimes in a circle around the circumfrence might reinforce each other like the Equilibrium demo magnets, and allow for tall polyphase output windings. Milliwatts in Kilowatts out! My first thought was for a tube through the core, Jonny's discovery may multiply the rotors many times at no increased cost to input power. I believe the coil is generating free energy at this point.:notworthy:

jonnydavro
05-18-2009, 08:43 AM
Thanks for all the great suggestions and idea's guys.I like the wind chime idea.El-tigre is doing something similar with a "top" rotor and reports good results so a stack of 6 or so would be an interesting experiment and then maybe multiple stacks.I better order some more magnets.I only have two:cheers: Jonny

synchro
05-18-2009, 07:08 PM
Vortex refers us to the Equilibrius grid youtube video of Jon Depew. I think JonnyDavro is correct in his opinion that Depew is using a master and three slave coils based on Depew's other videos where he shows stained glass mandala patterns that conform to the positoning of the 16 spinner arrangement. Depew alleges he is way over unity and uses the term Broadcast Power in his video comment. Furthermore, if you look at his ¨Life force contained¨ video, a metal conductor sphere appears on a stand, just the right size to cover the spinning magnets. This is perhaps the new output collecter device he refers to! Looks like this guy has been there and done that. He is making an apparent attempt to comercially market an O.U. generator like Steve Mark, revealing only portions of his invention while keeping critical elements hidden. His secret is out now.

kiwifreeenergy
05-19-2009, 12:36 AM
how about suspending the magnet in a circular halbach array as a frictionless bearing?, check out that thread,it gives a link to a supplier.

el-tigre
05-19-2009, 02:58 PM
how about suspending the magnet in a circular halbach array as a frictionless bearing?, check out that thread,it gives a link to a supplier.


Anybody got a scrap air hockey table? You could make multiple bedini tops from the pucks and suspend your coil or coils over the table. A quick jet of air will start the tops rotating (I can start my top by blowing through a straw a few times to build up starting speed) and voila, near frictionless tabletop multi rotor setup. Only potential problem will be tops may drift too close to each other and crash, but that is easily avoided by confining them with retaining walls (4 or 6" slices of plastic pipe) to keep them far enough apart. Better yet, use collection coils to keep them seperate and we now have a practical multiple rotor generator setup.

One interesting note on the top, I can run it with either a N-S or a N-N pole configuration. it does not have to be diametrically magnetized. Actually, it runs smoother in a N-N configuration and does not show as much eliptical orbit tendency and uses less power (very stable and smooth at 22ma & 15v) tops configured N-N should repel each other and no physical barrier would be needed to separate them, they should just self align in the optimum orbit around the drive coil?

The drive coil magnetic field may be better thought of as a doughnut than a funnel as mentioned earlier, therefore, you may want to experiment with a suspended coil and 2 or 3 rotors above the coil and 2 or 3 more below. My top definately operates best when oriented at the 10 oclock position compared to the coil. A three dimensional setup now seems possible and would permit more rotors operating at once. I suspect you can operate rotors in closer proximity vertically than horizontally because it takes much more magnetic force (closer proximity) to lift a rotor than to pull it sideways.

This is experimental science at it's best, keep on building, free energy or bust...

Mark
05-19-2009, 06:36 PM
I just ordered (5) 1 x 1 inch with 1/4 inch hole grade 42 cylinder magnets for $22.00. I will see how these bigger magnets do! Thanks for the ideas guys.

Mark :thumbsup:

synchro
05-19-2009, 07:36 PM
The Mendacino moter has a magnetic levitating bearing with two ring magnets
on each end of a bic pen over two disc magents. The photo cell roter is cubical and induces a little wobble, but a round one should spin smoothly. Check out the youtube video. This appears to be alot cheaper then the Hallbach array.

sigzidfit
05-19-2009, 07:40 PM
Ya'll are reminding me of this now:
Jon's / EQUILIBRIUS GRIDS (http://coralcastlecode.com/id21.html)

Peace
PJ

synchro
05-19-2009, 07:40 PM
Anybody got a scrap air hockey table? You could make multiple bedini tops from the pucks and suspend your coil or coils over the table. A quick jet of air will start the tops rotating (I can start my top by blowing through a straw a few times to build up starting speed) and voila, near frictionless tabletop multi rotor setup. Only potential problem will be tops may drift too close to each other and crash, but that is easily avoided by confining them with retaining walls (4 or 6" slices of plastic pipe) to keep them far enough apart. Better yet, use collection coils to keep them seperate and we now have a practical multiple rotor generator setup.

One interesting note on the top, I can run it with either a N-S or a N-N pole configuration. it does not have to be diametrically magnetized. Actually, it runs smoother in a N-N configuration and does not show as much eliptical orbit tendency and uses less power (very stable and smooth at 22ma & 15v) tops configured N-N should repel each other and no physical barrier would be needed to separate them, they should just self align in the optimum orbit around the drive coil?

The drive coil magnetic field may be better thought of as a doughnut than a funnel as mentioned earlier, therefore, you may want to experiment with a suspended coil and 2 or 3 rotors above the coil and 2 or 3 more below. My top definately operates best when oriented at the 10 oclock position compared to the coil. A three dimensional setup now seems possible and would permit more rotors operating at once. I suspect you can operate rotors in closer proximity vertically than horizontally because it takes much more magnetic force (closer proximity) to lift a rotor than to pull it sideways.

This is experimental science at it's best, keep on building, free energy or bust...

*By N-N do you mean the magnets are polarized axialy from end to end,
rather then side to side as in the diametrical fashion?

el-tigre
05-19-2009, 08:32 PM
*By N-N do you mean the magnets are polarized axialy from end to end,
rather then side to side as in the diametrical fashion?

Actually, the neos i am using are .25" square and 1" long. they are magnetized through the short side not axially. In my top, I have 2 stuck together in attraction and 2 on the other side of the top also stuck together in attraction, but those 2 are held in repulsion to the first 2 like this side view schematic :


(N-SN-S shaft S-NS-N)

the top also operates with the magnets configured like this:

(N-SN-S shaft N-SN-S)

Hope that helps, if not let me know & I will try to up load a pic.

Mark
05-19-2009, 08:44 PM
Hi PJ

Is that your web sight you listed? If so are you using the same principle, one coil with multiple spinning rotors?

Mark

sigzidfit
05-19-2009, 09:43 PM
Mark,

No sir. That is not my web site. It's just a site I saw once and was brought to memory by the discussion here.

I re-found it by googleing "leedskalnin magnetic top".

Peace
PJ

Jbignes5
05-21-2009, 11:08 AM
Yes that is what we are talking about doing with the magnets outside of the bedini motor in a chain. since the pickup coils wont affect the magnets that much it would look about the same as that setup except for the fact that a lot of pickup coil would be strewn around each magnet. Kinda of like a cell. Each magnet would have it's own set of coils generating electricity as the magnets spin and resonate with each other. Unfortunately if more then 1 magnet stops the rest would stop as well unless enough of them were chained together to make it fault tolerant to an extent. Ie (grid mode) more then one path for the magnetic flux chain for each magnet. it is proof that it is possible to extend the field to include more then one magnet and further proof that it could be tapped for more then 1 magnet coil grouping. I would think that the coils would have some influence over the efficiency but to what extent one would have to experiment with distance + 3d coil orientation.
Ie from the side 2d or from an angle 3d like a bucky ball configuration.


..................\................../..............\ /=flux
3d................/...............\................/ \=coils
2d............-I-..\.....M...../..-I-..............I=coils.....-,\ /=flux.....M=magnet

I would think the 3d would be the best configuration since only one side of the coil would affect the magnets, if they affect then at that range. But only experimentation would tell what kind of effect they have on the whole setup since a coil is driving the magents already.
Arg my ansi drawing didn't work.... It shows up on the edit screen but not in the message..... Fixed please ignore the periods in the ansi drawing.

jonnydavro
05-21-2009, 11:52 AM
Hi:thumbsup: Today i have done a test and have managed to link magnets together as a magnetic cog.The first magnet is span by the coil and the second by the first's magnetic field.The 2nd magnet is miles away from the coil and i can do it with the coil orientated in any position as long as the first magnet is spinning.You can see the interaction between the magnets as there field merge as the powered magnet visibly vibrates but this is not shown in the vid.I have taken some pics and made a vid so you can see.Regards jonny:thumbsup:

YouTube - One magnet no bearing Bedini motor.Magnetic cog test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jplGJ_cH6pQ)

el-tigre
05-21-2009, 05:57 PM
Nice work Jonny,

This is really interesting stuff

Are the magnets spinning in the same direction or opposite rotation?

does the coil consume more power to drive both magnets in this configuration?

does the second magnet need to be elevated above the primary to spin or will it cog up when both are in the same plane?

thx

Xenomorph
05-21-2009, 06:08 PM
@jonnydavro :

Very nice. Could you make an RPM reading of the first magnet before bringing in the 2nd and an amp-draw reading? Id really like to find out about the hard numbers. Theoretically i would think that the 1st magnets RPM would go down having to do work on the 2nd one or the amp draw would go slightly up. But if not, then my mind is boggled again hehe. You could really chain many magnets up.
Regards,
Xenomorph

P.S: I am just thinking maybe the 2nd magnet wasnt moved away from the coil far enough and still picked up actually the coils pulsed magnetic flux changes. You would find out when you chain like 4 of them and have the 4th one i a 1+ meter range from the coil.

jonnydavro
05-21-2009, 09:45 PM
@El-tigre.Hi.The rotors will spin in either direction but i am not sure which is best yet.Regarding amp draw.I have the 1k pot set at 1k and the 10 k pot set at zero and i don't touch them so my base resistance for the test was 1100ohms.Amp draw was between 28mA and 40mA at 5.5v.I could adjust the amp draw by moving the coil closer or further away from the first magnet.I don't think the second magnet has increased amp draw.Regarding the elevated position.I tried it on the same plane and did not have much luck as i could not adjust the magnets position without them flying together and now i have 2 chipped magnets so i thought i would elevate the second one as it allows for better adjustment and there is less chance off them coming together and it worked.:thumbsup:
@Xenomorph.I will try to take some rpm readings for you tomorrow but what i can tell you is the second magnet does slow the first magnet down as it is taking the energy it needs to spin from it.That said,i have done a quick test with my pickup coil and it will light the led from some distance on both coils so there is plenty off energy which can be recovered.This Led will light to full brightness.I have enclosed a couple of pics.The magnetic field from the coil may have some influence on the magnet as it must extend for some distance but i can say for certain it is the first magnet that is spinning the second as if it starts to wobble and is about to fall i can slide the first magnet towards it and it will straighten up and accelerate, also i started the first rotor at 90 degrees to the coil so the coil was triggering and then tried to start the second rotor in its normal position and it would not start.I did this test to remove the possibility that it was being powered by the coil.Regarding Daisy chaining more off the second magnet,i do not know if that would be possible as the disturbance when trying to start it would probably make the second magnet de cog from the first.It may be better to repeat magnets 1 and 2 at the 90 and180 degree position and if there was a triggering issue,maybe use a slave coil with the master kept seperate with just one magnet supplying the trigger pulse.
I have been thinking recently about your idea of using a 555 timer as a trigger and i think you should not give up on that idea as it would be ideal for controlling multi rotor coils or slaves,also did you order any magnets so you can try this?Hope this helps.jonny:thumbsup:

synchro
05-21-2009, 10:30 PM
Nice work! I began to think this over and realized there are two approaches, the magnetic cog approach leads to a diminishing output return, however multiplying. Placing more powerfull magnets closer to the output coil rather then further away, generates power in the power coil. A trifilar winding or four or even five seperate windings might yield greater output with more powerfull faster spinning magnets closer to the pulse coil rather then further away. Alfacentauro 1111 gets 2.5 KHZ from his rotating magnet sphere inside the air core of his Bedini coil. His secondary output is 400 volts. He dosen't state what the amperage is, but I suspect he's may be approaching overunity. The spinning magnet is energizing the pulse coil, and the power generated by the magnet is expanding as a magnetic field bubble. I don't know if the apparatus can grow more efficient then by just placing two powerfull rapidly spinning magnets at each side of the coil, and adding a third output winding inside the pulse coil, instead of building distance and coging tail dragers; However, both approaches appear to lead to advantages. One would help augment the other. The two forces working in conjunction with each other might optimize the effect. Keep up the good work. You continue to keep me stunned!

synchro
05-22-2009, 03:46 AM
Another thought about the near supersonic spin rate in the Alfacentauro 1111 video is that the magnet sphere appears to go through harmonic transition as it accelerates. The magnet starts to spin at one R.P.M. per pulse, then it sounds like the magnet sphere doubles its rate of spin and continues to rise in R.P.M then warps a third and maybe a fourth time as it goes from one R.P.M. per pulse to two, then three and so on. I may be mistaken about this, but if it is accelerating in this fashion, perhaps the -Vortex Storm Effect- is sucking it through these permutations. The more highly elevated coil charge reduces resistence inside the coil lower then the air drag around the magnet. This may explain why the field speed may increase past the speed of the magnet, and suck it foward, like the foward wave Dolphins can be seen surfing in front of the bow of ocean liners. The magnet may surf the creast of this kind of wave and overlap it's own spin rate. It sounds like the magnet sphere begins to switch gears, and why a close to unity result appears in amperage data supplied by Alfacentauro 1111.

Vortex
05-22-2009, 06:52 AM
Another thought about the near supersonic spin rate in alphacentauro´s video is that the magnet sphere appears to go through harmonic transition as it accelerates. The magnet starts to spin at one R.P.M. per pulse, then it sounds like the magnet sphere doubles its rate of spin and continues to rise in R.P.M then warps a third and maybe a fourth time as it goes from one R.P.M. per pulse to two, then three and so on. I may be mistaken about this, but if it is accelerating in this fashion, perhaps the -Vortex Storm Effect- is sucking it through these permutations. This may explain why it sounds like it is switching gears, and why overunity results may be in evidence.

What is this "alphacentauro´s video"?
Please post a link to this video you are speaking. :thanks:
I find no video related to the spelling alphacentauro.

jonnydavro
05-22-2009, 07:35 AM
@ Vortex. This is the Video synchro is refering to,it is quite amazing.I would like to try something like this but as syncro says,with an added third coil winding.

YouTube - Fast Motor 150.000RPM no rotor neodimio magnet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1WkxHr0G6o)

and his proof vid of the 150000rpm

YouTube - how do you know it's spinning at 150,000RPM? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYttVWyVb38&feature=channel)

Xenomorph
05-22-2009, 05:01 PM
Too bad Alphacentauro does not make amp-draw measurements.
400 Volts sounds much, but the power lies in the current besides that.
In any (of the many) pickup attempts i have made with this setup, the current is way too low. So OU considerations remain entirely speculative without numbers.

@jonnydavro: I have ordered 2 of those magnets (Budget is small atm) and now i am looking for 8mm steel balls to replicate your findings and experiment with it.

You are right then, daisy chaining might be a bad idea, but 4 sided double magnet configuration sounds like the way to go.

The 555 triggering is complicated, i dont have an oscilloscope, so i can only guess what the impulse that the magnet creates actually looks like to imitate it with the timer. All i have tried so far did not work.

jonnydavro
05-22-2009, 05:23 PM
@Xenomorph.I think my ball bearings are 9mm.I have just looked on ebay and you can get 30 9mm steel ball bearings for £2.99.They are used as catapult ammo,these should work fine.:thumbsup:

synchro
05-22-2009, 07:57 PM
Sorry, I got the spelling wrong, it's Alfacentauro 1111. Have a look at his latest video.-Magnetic Motor-. He has a slave coil. He starts the magnet sphere rotor up in the air core, then when the coil energizes, he spits it into a cup where it continues to accelerate to an unimaginable speed. I posted several comments on his youtube site requesting his amperage output. I'm assuming it rose from 12v and 90 ma to 400v and amperage at this time is an unknown. He has an oscilloscope, I suspect he measured the amperage and failed to pass that information on to us to avoid causing a wave of scepticisem amongst the viewers. How easy would it be to drop that magnet ball in the middle of one of those Jewel thief toroids with the seconday wired to a bridge rectifier, and measure the D.C. output. Mabe Jonnydavro can fit one of his tubes inside his Jewel thief or Lidmoter his new magnet tube or magnet sphere. The important advance here is that Alfacentauro is running his magnet ball outside the Bedini coil on broadcast pulse, after energizing the coil by spinning it up from the inside. Eroutt demonstrated the levitating action of the coil, so the ball is probably close to weightless and rotating along the diametric pole axis. Perfect alignment for a toroid output coil.

@Alfacentauro 1111 emailed me his output data, the message reads as follows: Only charge Oscilloscope input 12v 90ma but charge output a lamp 15w, input 30v (300) ma output lamp 220v 35 ma 2500HZ.

@Alfacentauro 1111 reports on his latest -Wireless Motor Magnet Motor.- that: "Max amp in this video is 90mA 12v."

@I interpret the above as an 84% efficency rate. 9 watts in and 7.7 recovered from the secondary. Very efficent C.O.P! English appears to be Alf's second language

Lidmotor
05-23-2009, 01:39 AM
Hi all,
I have been working with the 555 timer approach and like Xenomorph I have had no luck. I did make a successful new rotor out of a children's plastic top and that did work. I put a 1" sphere hematite magnet in it with the poles faced out. It works quite well and I made a video of it. I ordered a 1" neo magnet to try out that high speed 'inside the coil' setup and will wind a seperate coil for that experiment.
I have been keeping up with the progress here but have been busy learning all about Dr. Stiffler's amazing SEC.

Cheers,
Lidmotor

Here is the video of the new rotor---
YouTube - New setup for One Magnet No Bearing Bedini (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vHYlPLlIWc)

Jbignes5
05-23-2009, 06:42 PM
That video of the round magnet is simply awe inspiring. Thats some speed!

synchro
05-25-2009, 12:41 AM
My question for Lidmotor is: Did the input to output ratio rise between his weaker strength snake egg rotor, and his new more powerfull neo sphere at cruise speed rotation? If so, might it be possible to project where an increase in magnet strength may reach or surpass the break even point?

Lidmotor
05-25-2009, 03:14 PM
My question for Lidmotor is: Did the input to output ratio rise between his weaker strength snake egg rotor, and his new more powerfull neo sphere at cruise speed rotation? If so, might it be possible to project where an increase in magnet strength may reach or surpass the break even point?

Synchro----That is a very good question. First of all I don't have the neo ball yet and in the last video I'm using a Hematite ball so we will have to wait and see if there is a big difference. I don't think that spinning anything is going to "make" energy. What I am looking for is efficiency and "fun" factor. I can run the Bedini circuit solid state with no moving parts ----good efficiency but small "fun" factor. Or I can run a nice spinning magnet motor with less efficiency but its great to look at and listen to.
From my early tests with the spinning ball the efficiency doesn't look good and I don't know why.:thinking: The input to output from first glance was way off. I think that it was mainly do to my poor crude setup. The snake egg was very good even from the start. When I get the neo ball magnet I may make a better setup for it and try again. My partially "levitated top" idea looks real good so far. I may put the neo in that.

Here is the video of the high speed ball magnet:
YouTube - High Speed Ball Magnet Bedini (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsobVuzUSiE)


Lidmotor

theremart
05-25-2009, 03:50 PM
I would like someone to try this with their setup.

Take a sphere neo, then at the top take a swivel for a fishing line and put it at the top of it, then put one at the bottom ( I am thinking electrical tape to attach ) again with the poles of the magnet on the side. I am thinking this would allow you to put the spere inside the coil and keep it in exact position and give very little resistance with the swivels...

Just an idea...

synchro
05-25-2009, 05:37 PM
The super high R.P.M.'s would heat up and burn those cheap swivel bearings out real fast. The fishing swivel's designed for aquatic submergence to cool and lubricate. A Jonnydavro style diametrically magnatised tube magnet rotating on a ball bearing with a lidmotor style Neo levitation stabilizer off the top coupled with the inherent gyroscopic stability should be enough to keep the magnet rotor centered inside a toroid coil with practically zero loss to friction unlike the swivel bearings. Picture a brass wire lamp shade holder taped to the side of a toroid output coil with a canted neo pointed north down, and a peg in the top of a tube magnet with a neo south up like lidmotors. One could spin the tube magnet up stable, then place the toroid output coil over the top with that levitation stabilizer centering. Now it's ready to pour on some steam!

Vortex
05-26-2009, 03:54 AM
Lidmotor states: "spinning magnet motor with less efficiency".
The question is yet to be answered if multiple tops/rotors can be run with the same energy input as it takes to run one top/rotor.
If a little more or same amount of input is required, would not this allow multiple energy extraction for the same input cost?
The possible multiplication factor of extraction is the question to be inspected?
Lidmotor states a "solid state with no moving parts" has "good efficiency"..
If you can with little or no cost keep adding additional rotors would not this
allow much greater extraction of energy regardless of the efficiency of the input.

I believe a plastic Easter egg can be used as Lidmotor has done with the
plastic top, putting a magnet inside the egg. It would allow a similar setup as Bedini Spinning Top (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byLzUbTjhm0&feature=channel_page) on the top of the Easter Egg to stabilize it if desired.

The stabilizing of the Top (or an Easter egg) could be done with a nail, pointing upward, using one less magnet or maybe no additional magnets at all?
This would allow for a self starting rotor. It would always be upright and ready to start spinning as Lidmotor has discovered.
This would allow for multiple rotors side-by-side using only a single driving coil, could it not?

just :thinking:
Randy

Shanjaq
05-26-2009, 08:59 AM
Is the coil supposed to be self-oscillating when the magnet is not in motion? I have a 24awg and 32awg bifilar coil of 100 imperial feet, didn't bother to twist them on a drill before winding. As with all circuits, on first powerup I have an EMF meter monitoring the airwaves, and when I turned on this circuit I got an audible whistling noise extending about 8 feet away from the coil. Frequency went up as I dialed the potentiometer to a higher resistance value.

When the magnet started spinning, its rotation modulated the whistling noise, and if it stopped and stuck to the core, I didn't need an EMF meter to hear the coil whistling!

Shanjaq
05-26-2009, 09:07 AM
Additional Pylons:
YouTube - Regenerative Acceleration PART1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps5BqEiFK74)


Thane C. Heins: High RPM + High Inductance Pickup Coil = high impedance, high voltage, low current. Lenz's Law need not apply here :yinyang:

Xenomorph
05-26-2009, 10:13 AM
Regarding the Lenz law comment:

I have yet to see a pickup-coil accelerate (?!) the magnet as claimed by Heins at least it wont be so simply applicable for the one magnet bedini.
The "so-called" high-voltage coils in the video are probably high AWG, high turn count coils.
I have just made a 7000 turn AWG 32 coil and it DOES SLOW THE MAGNET DOWN. More turns would cripple the current output completely.
And he is getting enough current to light LEDs.

Too bad, i cant 100% replicate Heins setup , but i dont see any reason
why Lenz law should not be in effect (or reverse) even with high voltage coils ?! Where is the theory for that? I will study a bit what Heins has to say about it.

I will however (if i find the time) try that of course just not to be a complete skeptic. ;)

Jbignes5
05-26-2009, 12:36 PM
I agree with Xenomorph here. Just energizing the coil would show you the maximum effect and should be experimented with. That way you know the maximum range the given coil would effect the magnet. Then you have to take in account the voltage amp on the coil when in generation mode. That would give you the lenz law elements to figure out where the sweet spot is between the magnet and coil in generation mode. As you add more coils you would already know that you need a certain space between the coils and would allow you to place them in a close rough guess.
But like I said once you get the rough distance you could just geodesic the rest of the coils like a half bucky ball type of arrangement. you should be able to get at least 2 rows of coils with an acess hole in the top. Or you could just use the top row and leave the rest open for further satalite magnets if the 1 chain satalites work with the new coils. I am on the fence about it working with coils in place. You just might be better to experiment to see if you can get one at each 90 degree then make the coil assemblies on the satalite mags but I would still try to see if the coils have an affect at that range for the other mags.

Xenomorph
05-26-2009, 01:18 PM
Heines explains the background to his experiment in this video better:
YouTube - GOD'S APRIL FOOLS JOKE on Science & the SECRET (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_UXcNMBGTA)

Is it applicable to the one magnet motor?
Well, maybe. But the space around the magnet is limited, thats when jonnydavros multiple magnet system might just be the solution.

So Heines talks about 2500 RPM and he has like what, 8 magnets on there ?
That would equate to 20000 RPM with the single magnet.

Next time my budget allows more magnet wire, ill give it a shot i think

Thanks @ Shanjaq to post this here.

I was considering moving to much thicker wire anyway as a next step.

Shanjaq
05-26-2009, 07:26 PM
It appears that Thane Heins' setup is designed to push the (HV) generator coils to a high enough frequency so that impedance dominates and any current resulting from the passing magnets nearly ceases to flow. There are as many turns as possible and as low a gauge as possible to reduce the frequency at which Impedance asserts itself as a critical factor(Air Core might not have sufficient inductance.) For best acceleration results, the HV coils are shorted out(maximum load condition) above a rotor speed determined by these coil characteristics.

synchro
05-26-2009, 10:14 PM
The principle that Thane Heins is explaining is so simple, it eludes understanding, but is the fundamental relationship described by Ampere's Law and involves the factor of the Ampere Turn. Start here: Take a length of wire and induce an electric power at a current of one amp and one volt. Now take an identical length of wire, induce the same power at the same level of current and voltage but add a loop or one Ampere turn. How much power do we measure at the end of each wire? An additional volt has appeared in the wire with the Ampere loop, has it not? The wires are still the same length and share the same Ohmic resistence, correct? The second wire generated an additional volt and cut the current by half? What happened in the loop? A magnetic field has appeared has it not? A solenoid, a simple component to an electric motor capable of imparting motion to a magnet. So we have power in equalto power out in both wires, but one wire has aquired the power to do work. Therefore. the more thin wire turns in a coil, the more power to do work for a given amount of electric power supplied to a coil. This principle only works up to a point, after which overwinding produces a counter effect. The same ratio holds for the output, the more turns, the more electric power out for the amount of magnetic force applied.

Xenomorph
05-26-2009, 10:33 PM
Well, that sounds like an awfully expensive way to find the right winding number for this set-up. You would have to make many coils and compare them.
One Question remains, if the current nearly ceases to flow in the high-voltage coils, how is Heins still able to light 3 (quite bright) LEDs off these coils? Well i forget that he is pushing a lot of power into that motor, so he is probably able to squeeze a few milliAmperes out of them still.

BTW: Anyone knows the cheapest magnet wire supplier? :whistle:

Shanjaq
05-26-2009, 11:14 PM
In the first video I linked, he also engages the High-Current coil while the High-Voltage coils were still accelerating the rotor; it continued to accelerate while lighting an incandescent bulb. This did not happen below the threshold RPM and with the High-Voltage coils disengaged.

Applied Magnets : Magnet Wire Spools - discount wholesale prices. (http://www.magnet4less.com/index.php?cPath=9) had 11lb spools reasonably priced :3

Joit
05-27-2009, 12:18 AM
BTW: Anyone knows the cheapest magnet wire supplier? :whistle:

Junkyard, there is still a lot of Wire around, some Motors have any Kind of Wire on it,
or some bigger Transformers still got few meters usefull Wires on it, 0,2-0,8mm, especially Microwave Transformers.
I saw at Ebay some Cheap Roles too for last Chance.

synchro
05-27-2009, 02:32 AM
Just because current drops off doesn't mean the coil isn't highly charged. The high voltage coil maximises magnetic force per watt as an electro-magnet, conversly it maximises watt for amount of magnetic force as a pickup coil. As the voltage increases in the coil, the resistence drops toward the vanishing point, reducing Lenz drag. Now the coil begins to act as a capacitor, and stores power as flux rather then generating a current. Lidmotor's input drops when he disconects his third winding, and his back EMF
drops as well. He should find that his input drops when he connects his third winding while his magnet R.P.M.s increase past the High voltage Lenz decay point, like Thane Hein's motor generator. When resistence drops toward zero and the coil turns into a flux capacitor, his stronger neo magnet rotor at high end R.P.M.s, should behave just the opposite.

synchro
05-27-2009, 02:51 AM
Junkyard, there is still a lot of Wire around, some Motors have any Kind of Wire on it,
or some bigger Transformers still got few meters usefull Wires on it, 0,2-0,8mm, especially Microwave Transformers.
I saw at Ebay some Cheap Roles too for last Chance.

It dosen't help to loose the map to the mine field.

Joit
05-27-2009, 03:15 AM
It dosen't help to loose the map to the mine field.

Huh? Its just picking up some Mines.

Lidmotor
05-27-2009, 03:45 PM
I put the 1" Hematite ball magnet (still don't have my neo) inside a plastic tube and put the tube inside the air core coil and it worked. I was able to get the thing to run slowly and still put out a good charge at a low amp draw. I put a little 3in1 oil in the tube to lubricate the ball.

Here is the video---

YouTube - Low Speed Ball Magnet Bedini (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqLRZy9cirI)

Lidmotor

CosmicFarmer
05-27-2009, 05:21 PM
How did you get the magnet to initially spin? was it spinning when you shut up the tube, or was it started externally? Hmm. Very contained. Can you pick it up and shake it a little to simulate walking or running, and will it run?

Nice.:thumbsup:

synchro
05-27-2009, 08:50 PM
There is no confusion on the number of wraps for a maximum efficency Hi Voltage Electo Magnet Coil. There are tables for coil dimension wire gauge etc. Type "Hi Voltage Electro Magnet Coil" in the Google search box and a web site comes up that will sell you plans.[url=http://www.fuellessengineplans.com] Click on "High Voltage Magnet", be carefull, these coils can deliver a fatal shock! Bedini and Bearden believe that when the Hi Voltage Coil reaches saturation, the power in the wraps weds. After that the output is comming from the G-field, or background power of Space Vacuum. Imagine us at the bottem of a sea of power, the super charged coil as a leak in our submarine hull. The background power of space is in the microwave spectrum. The wave length of 12.2 meters has a two to one relationship to the amplitude. JLN Labs has a microwave plasma experiment with a rectenna base of 6mm and a height of 3mm. A high voltage coil built to these dimensions should broadcast a microwave conformal output at resonant frquency, and gain oscillation feedback from the microwave fabric of space time, as the galaxy speeds toward the great attractor in the constellation Hydra.

Xenomorph
05-27-2009, 10:24 PM
@synchro : Do you honestly think that a simple google search will give you the exact specs for such a specialized job like a pick-up coil for a one magnet bedini motor ? ;)

All that comes up is endless pages of Tesla coil specs.

From Heins videos you can vaguely guess the spool dimensions, he even mentions the wire gauges and the resistances.

But his rotor creates a much higher power than the one magnet thing, so the wire gauges cant be so easily adapted. He uses much higher source voltage.

Thats what i mean with pain-staking experimentation for optimization for the one magnet power level.

Lidmotor
05-28-2009, 12:46 AM
How did you get the magnet to initially spin? was it spinning when you shut up the tube, or was it started externally? Hmm. Very contained. Can you pick it up and shake it a little to simulate walking or running, and will it run?

Nice.:thumbsup:

To start this thing you just shake it a little or tap the power on and off. The real problem is that the circuit wants to self oscillate. Thats not a bad thing but if you want the ball running, walking, or doing a jig---you first have to get the circuit to stop singing on its own by turning all the dials down.

Lidmotor

CosmicFarmer
05-28-2009, 01:03 AM
If you include the batteries in the oscillations, wont you get the aspects desired from "ringing the battery"? For total energy gain, wouldn't you want that? Other then getting your circuit noisy, what affect does that have on discharge battery compared to when its not oscillating? Hmm too many questions I should try it myself...

Xenomorph
05-28-2009, 02:27 PM
I finally aquired the right steel ball to put under the neo magnet cylinder (8mm and it works fine).
It can produce about a steady 10 Volt when picked up with a 2000 turn air core coil.
The voltage was measured right behind the bridge rectifier without capacitors, but a capacitor would reach quite a high voltage i assume.

Video: YouTube - Neo magnet generator (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZ3hjhMifk)

synchro
05-28-2009, 11:07 PM
@Xenomorphlabs. Try [url=http://www.fuellessengineplans.com] Click on "Hi Voltage Magnet". They advertise plans for 16.95. The "Hi Voltage Electro Magnet" google search category is the correct one. Sorry for misdirecting you to all those Tesla resonating generators. You will see a fat tuna can Thane Heins style coil on the Electro Magnet page. The coil design is the same for output. The strength of an electro magnet is the product of current times turns, conversly the output in current is magnet strength times turns. More wraps more power! No real mystery there. The coil is three inches in diameter and two inches high. You can probably save the money just by wraping thin wire to those proportions.

Pirate88179
05-29-2009, 06:51 AM
Jonny:

I just ordered five 1" O.D. x 1" long diametrically magnetized tube magnets. I can't wait to see how these run on my frying pan lid device. This was a great discovery you made. Thanks for sharing it. For those here that might not have seen it, this is my video of my snake egg replication using the magnets sent to me from Jonnydavro. (Thanks Jonny)

YouTube - No Bearing Bedini IV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RsFMyZbj1I)

Bill

Jbignes5
05-29-2009, 03:10 PM
Maybe the snake egg mags are now defunct. With the spheres we are seeing speeds that could actually open something new up. I mean 150k revs is the most astounding speed that might make it possible to see new effects. Maybe we should concentrate on the spheres and drop all the weight of the tube shaped are carrying. Are the spheres self starting? or easier to start?
Has anyone used a larger sphere with a more powerful field on it? If we could get neo strength of field I bet the spheres would manefest a new effect at those speeds. Has anyone generated voltage from an air coil off of a 150k speed. I think this is the area we should be interested in experimenting on.
I would also assume spheres to be easier to link together but we need to start going down that direction to find out.

Xenomorph
05-29-2009, 03:19 PM
@Jbignes5:
Who has reported 150 k RPM with the one magnet setup?
Have i missed anything?
Or do you mean the magnets rotating INSIDE of a coil?

jonnydavro
05-29-2009, 04:00 PM
@Pirate.Hi Bill.I have been away for a few days to recharge my batteries and see that Lidmotor and others have been busy with some great new idea's.:thumbsup:
I am glad you have decided to try the cylinders Bill and i think you will think off plenty off experiments to try with them.Can't wait to see.
Also Bill.Have you tried running the one mag bedini on your Earth battery yet?If so what happened and have you modded your circuit?Regards jonny:thumbsup:
@Xenomorph.Hi.I am glad that you too have now got a cylinder rotor and are conducting some pickup tests.I have not really done any pickup coil tests,only a quickie with an led and from that i could see that there is great potential with this rotor.You have a very scientific approach to your experiments so i am sure you will find if this rotor is an improovement to the snake egg rotor.Please let me know your initial thoughts on this rotor regards jonny:thumbsup:
@ all. alfacentauro has made a new vid of a one magnet motor doing 300000rpm's.This motor is using a small cylinder magnet.For those who haven't seen it here is a link.
YouTube - 300000 RPM Fast magnet wireless motor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1oFzXOZnE8)
Also.I subscribe to Mopozco.He is experimenting with the snake egg rotor and has made a few vids.Here is a link to his latest.Regards jonny
YouTube - hi-speed bedini "one magnet selfcharger(?)" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvDlJh37gZ8)

Jbignes5
05-29-2009, 07:58 PM
Yes look thru the previous posts there are two one for 150k and one for 300k.

Xenomorph
05-29-2009, 09:51 PM
@Jbignes5
Ah okay. thought you would mean that one.

Has anyone generated voltage from an air coil off of a 150k speed

Well didnt alphacentauro actually generate voltage from that aircore coil in which the magnet is spinning? 400 volt or something as he stated?

Shanjaq
05-29-2009, 10:32 PM
I've been trying to get a 1-1/4" N50 sphere to start but so far its symmetrical shape allows it to easily shuffle into a dead "stuck" angle... Maybe I just don't have the proper "dance floor", but this thing would be SCARY if it started up and became imbalanced.. It would take off like a wrecking ball that seeks and destroys! :eek:

Xenomorph
05-29-2009, 11:38 PM
@Shanjaq: What voltage are you running at? 12 V? Usually using a lower source voltage yields slower RPMs, so you are not wrecking your house ;)

Lidmotor
05-31-2009, 01:06 AM
I finally got my 1" neo sphere magnet and I have tried it many different ways.
The most interesting one was to start it inside an air core, gently raise the coil up and place it beside the spinning magnet. The small "dance floor" is the bottom of a plastic bottle that had a 1/8 " depression in the center. This was perfect for letting the ball center itself. I used a little light oil to lubricate the spinning ball. I think that you could make a custom dance floor by using a 1/4" drill bit on a piece of plastic. Just drill in slightly to make the depression.
Here is the video----

YouTube - Neodymium Sphere Magnet Bedini (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSGnZPZpR_I)

Lidmotor

Pirate88179
05-31-2009, 02:40 AM
Lid:

Those are some great innovations you have made there, very nice job! Very interesting how you can use Lentz to control the speed. This may be more efficient than adjusting the resistance, I don't know.

Very nice work!

Bill

Lidmotor
05-31-2009, 03:05 AM
Lid:

Those are some great innovations you have made there, very nice job! Very interesting how you can use Lentz to control the speed. This may be more efficient than adjusting the resistance, I don't know.

Very nice work!

Bill

Thanks Bill,
The problem that I am running into is control. This thing wants to drift the RPM all over the place. Its like trying to hold onto a slippery fish. Everytime you think you have a good hold on it, the bugger wiggles away. I can't even get a good scope shot of it. By using that extra coil it helped. After I did the video I slowed the ball down and made a small pool of oil in the little dish. That made it hiss like a snake but it ran better.:rofl:

Lidmotor

jonnydavro
05-31-2009, 07:54 AM
@Lidmotor.That is a nice stable,easy to start motor you have made there Lid,nicely done:thumbsup:
I was wondering if you have tried adding the 10k pot and the relay coil to reduce the amp draw down or would this effect the easy starting?If so you could always switch the 10k pot and relay coil in after you have started with the standard Bedini circuit but those mods are most effective when running at high rpm so if your intentions are for a slow motor you may not see the benefit.Great stuff Lid regards jonny.:thumbsup:

Jbignes5
05-31-2009, 04:01 PM
I think we should be looking into high speed. We just need a way to house the sphere in such a way that allows for starting and no damage to the housing. Maybe a kevlar or other super slipery material that is rigid. It could be a plasic housing that some spray on teflon could be applied.
Lid that was a great example of what I was trying to elude to that the coils do affect the rpms. We just need to find that sweet spot for maximum extraction of energy contrasting with the wattage draw of the bedini type circuit you have used.
My thoughts are going twords smaller mags and setups to add together for the final output. Starting could be done in incremental steps and going to a cap bank. Anything that needs to be drawn off then could be at any rate. The only problem is the foot print of the device.
Question: Could the spheres be stacked like the tube type mags?
. : Can two mags stacked be run from 1 coil or can there be more then 1 mag per coil. If so can each 90 degree be harvested that way, including up and down 3d type (6 mags).
To get enough out of it what would each cells coils be returning for wattage? What does your single coil return?

Lidmotor
05-31-2009, 04:26 PM
@ Jonny---- I will try the ideas that you suggest and see if I can get the amp draw down. The neo ball starts up pretty easy so I don't see a problem. I would really like this ball to run on one AA battery and quietly. I bought one of those "Top Secret" commercial units that Sephiroth described on page one of this thread and I am studying it. That will run for days on a 9 volt battery. The circuit is similar to a Bedini only with no charging aspect.

@jbignes5----I totally agree about the speed. Faster is better here but in my case noise is an issue. I am working on a table in my house and it is like trying to build something in a library. My projects have to be quiet. The only reason that I am slowing things down is because of the screaming noise. When I get the neo ball going fast it gets loud but I can pull off energy from a distance. There is a sweet spot somewhere in the speed curve that balances the energy in vs the energy being pulled off. I don't think that stacking or multiples will help much. Maybe a 427 V8 version of this would be fun to build though. :rofl:

el-tigre
06-01-2009, 08:53 PM
I think we should be looking into high speed. We just need a way to house the sphere in such a way that allows for starting and no damage to the housing. Maybe a kevlar or other super slipery material that is rigid. It could be a plasic housing that some spray on teflon could be applied.
Lid that was a great example of what I was trying to elude to that the coils do affect the rpms. We just need to find that sweet spot for maximum extraction of energy contrasting with the wattage draw of the bedini type circuit you have used.
My thoughts are going twords smaller mags and setups to add together for the final output. Starting could be done in incremental steps and going to a cap bank. Anything that needs to be drawn off then could be at any rate. The only problem is the foot print of the device.
Question: Could the spheres be stacked like the tube type mags?
. : Can two mags stacked be run from 1 coil or can there be more then 1 mag per coil. If so can each 90 degree be harvested that way, including up and down 3d type (6 mags).
To get enough out of it what would each cells coils be returning for wattage? What does your single coil return?


I have suggested this method someplace before, I hope somebody tries it out as I don't have time to experiment much right now...

Place your sphere on an air coil that has a core just slightly smaller than the sphere diameter. Put a small positive air pressure into the other end of the coil and the sphere will float and rotate in the Bernoulli effect.

Bernoulli effect demonstration | Practical Physics (http://www.practicalphysics.org/go/Experiment_405.html)


A vacuum cleaner with the hose on the output should be sufficient to make it happen. It should produce a near frictionless stable platform for the neo sphere and it will be self starting as the sphere will rotate in the jet stream. Very high rotational speeds should be possible.

I don't believe you can stack spheres as they tend to rotate around and attract to the opposite poles. Therefore, you lose your diametrically opposed orientation as the multiple spheres fall into an axially magnitezed orientation.

Pirate88179
06-03-2009, 02:35 AM
This is a video of me running a One magnet No Bearing Bedini motor from my earth battery and a 650 Farad 2.7 volt supercap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauOlhNK0iY

Bill (Thanks Jonny!!!)

rustybucket
06-03-2009, 03:09 AM
I've recently purchased and 'am waiting on delivery of JB's book. Practical constructions will follow. In the interim, it must be noted that the ME forums have been an amazing source of information. The innovations, creativity, and real science that are found here are a rare delight. All of the contributors are obviously just having too much fun. Please, all, know there are readers that appreciate and respect your work.

Pirate88179
06-03-2009, 03:53 AM
I've recently purchased and 'am waiting on delivery of JB's book. Practical constructions will follow. In the interim, it must be noted that the ME forums have been an amazing source of information. The innovations, creativity, and real science that are found here are a rare delight. All of the contributors are obviously just having too much fun. Please, all, know there are readers that appreciate and respect your work.

Yes, it is fun. That is really the only way I learn is if I am having fun at the same time. Jump in. I am sure you will receive any help that you need from the guys here. I am still learning but, I know a heck of a lot more than I did 2 years ago.

Bill

jonnydavro
06-04-2009, 06:08 PM
Hi.Today i did a test using an aircore bifilar coil and a 6mm Neo sphere.The motor ran very economicaly on 1.4v@1.75mA and 2mA when lighting the led.I used a pickup coil to light an LED and i was also recovering the bemf from the relay coil and power winding.This was just a quick test to see if you could get such a small magnet to work so it's not pretty and the sphere is hard to see but it is in there spinning away and there are lots of places to make further savings starting with the elimination of the cardboard end stop which the little ball is rubbing against.I made a vid as i was suprised it drew so little current and here is a closeup pic showing the coil and cardboard endstop retaining the sphere.Regards jonny:thumbsup:

YouTube - One magnet Bedini 6mm Sphere motor -1.4v @1.75mA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldg2FuJeB94)

el-tigre
06-05-2009, 01:11 AM
Jonny, you may have some luck reducing friction if you use a short glass test tube with a diameter that fits inside your coil. Spin the magnet inside the tube and lower both into the coil, that way you can experiment with the best operating location and elevation in the coil.

I have found that glass plates work well as an operating platform with the spheres. I have also been experimenting with stabilizing the neo sphere by placing a small piece of metal underneath the glass and the neo tends to hold it's location over the metal. You can't use too lare a piece of metal or it will stop the neo from spinning. I can get a sphere to sit dead still this way while rotating faster than my tach can measure so it's going over 100k rpm I guess.

Lidmotor
06-06-2009, 03:13 AM
Well I went back to the "spinning top" idea to get things quiet again around the house. My screaming ball magnet didn't go over too well. I changed the circuit and made a new coil that is just a bifilar with 845 turns of 30ga on each winding. The coil is wound on a wire spool with little nails and epoxy for the core. The circuit uses a 2n2222. The top is partially levitated with a support arm that has a small neo attracting another small neo in the spinner shaft. It runs on 5 to 12 volts at 15 to 30 milliamps. The charger part is just a 1N4007 diode coming off the backend of the drive coil. I run that energy through a couple of paralleled white LEDs on it's way to the charge battery.
Here is the video of it------

YouTube - Lidmotor---TOP CHARGER (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFgz_r0P-cw)

Lidmotor

jonnydavro
06-06-2009, 01:18 PM
Hi.I think i may have made a bit of a breakthrough with this.I have been experimenting with Neo sphere's and i wondered if i could combine the very powerful cylinder magnet with the sphere's and you can.This is what i did.
I used the cylinder magnet as the main rotor and i placed small 6mm N42 sphere neo's into seperate plastic containers with lids.I found i could get a satalite rotor to spin from the magnetic field from the main rotor at a distance of 12" from the main rotor so that give's a 24" spin zone around the main rotor.I also found that i could stack them.I think you could spin as many magnets as you can get close to the main rotor.I only had 10 of the 6mm sphere's but after todays test,i have ordered another 40.I can also recover energy from the satalites witha pickup coil and i found that if you place a pickup coil between two pairs,they will share it so thats another bonus.
Here are some pics and a video.regards jonny.:thumbsup:

YouTube - One magnet no bearing bedini motor with 10 satalite rotors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuVtKYfSDI8)

@El-tigre.Thanks for the suggestions.I will try them.:thumbsup:
@Lidmotor.Thanks for shareing your top charger with us.I love the stability.:thumbsup:

synchro
06-07-2009, 01:35 AM
@Jonnydavro. Once again Bravo for a thrilling first! This gave me an idea. How about enclosing the tiny 6mm neo sphere inside a clear soft plastic tube, that connects with next size OD couplings. Now, these tubes could be covered in spiral copper windings and stacked one over the other. The output coils could then be connected in series. Maybe 25 each stack, ten around for a total of 250. You are looping the input. An anology would be running water from an overhead storage tank over a series of water wheels. The difference is a switch runs the water back uphill. The pulse coil is already running close to unity, anything more would be all gravy. These units could wire into the smart grid planned for by the current administration, and supply a portion of our Nations energy needs.

synchro
06-07-2009, 01:47 AM
@Lidmotor. Your new pulse coil adaptation of the Joule Thief circuit may be as important an advance as John Bedini's original. Congratulations on what may prove to be a really important achievment. Do you think it might be possible to double duty the Joule Thief coil to charge back to the primary battery by regulating the duty cycle and using the rest period to oscillate the transister for a charge burst, then switch the coil function back to efficient pulse? A Zener diode might do the trick, reversing the current at a higher back voltage.

Vortex
06-07-2009, 02:15 AM
Hi.I think i may have made a bit of a breakthrough with this.I have been experimenting with Neo sphere's and i wondered if i could combine the very powerful cylinder magnet with the sphere's and you can.This is what i did.
I used the cylinder magnet as the main rotor and i placed small 6mm N42 sphere neo's into seperate plastic containers with lids.I found i could get a satalite rotor to spin from the magnetic field from the main rotor at a distance of 12" from the main rotor so that give's a 24" spin zone around the main rotor.I also found that i could stack them.I think you could spin as many magnets as you can get close to the main rotor.I only had 10 of the 6mm sphere's but after todays test,i have ordered another 40.I can also recover energy from the satalites witha pickup coil and i found that if you place a pickup coil between two pairs,they will share it so thats another bonus.
Here are some pics and a video.regards jonny.:thumbsup:

YouTube - One magnet no bearing bedini motor with 10 satalite rotors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuVtKYfSDI8)

@El-tigre.Thanks for the suggestions.I will try them.:thumbsup:
@Lidmotor.Thanks for shareing your top charger with us.I love the stability.:thumbsup:

The initial spin-up of each magnet will burden the input source/coil ...
Once spin-up has been obtained, spin is mostly maintained via each magnet's
field interacting with each other and not by the coil/input source magnetic field. (As I see it?)

Is this multiplication of input force?

Jbignes5
06-07-2009, 12:18 PM
@Vortex I would think it is a resonance effect once it attains syncro operation. This is what I was trying to get at because of the video of the magnets all spining off of each other on the bowls upside down. I can't remember the author of that video but it was shown that it could be maintained even if the original was powered the net gain from all the rest of the magnets should out weigh all the input once resonance was attained. even if the gains were very small it is still a gain and a whole room could be filled with cells that could generate massive results. I am thinking that the approach of where you pick off the energy is the key. Like angle or vectoring the pickup in order to least affect the source but maximize the gain to the fullest.

@ Jonny. I told you it was possible to do it! And you went out and did it. Not by doing the usual but by thinking outside the box and that is what is needed to find new effects and observations with this new tech!
Now all you need to do is find out how to collect the energy without killing the rotation of the magnets and walla you have an expandable power generation machine.
Now some questions:

Does your input get affected by any draw of generation coils from the satalites?
Have you noticed any speed changes with the change in the amount of satalites added or subtracted after syncronicity has been achieved?

Lidmotor
06-07-2009, 06:38 PM
@Lidmotor. Your new pulse coil adaptation of the Joule Thief circuit may be as important an advance as John Bedini's original. Congratulations on what may prove to be a really important achievment. Do you think it might be possible to double duty the Joule Thief coil to charge back to the primary battery by regulating the duty cycle and using the rest period to oscillate the transister for a charge burst, then switch the coil function back to efficient pulse? A Zener diode might do the trick, reversing the current at a higher back voltage.
@Synchro----Thanks for tip on the Zener diode. That might do the trick. I might be playing with this circuit for awhile to see what it can do. All the values of the components I just guessed at.

@ Jonny----Great idea with the multiple slave balls running to draw off more power----or suck it in? If the speed of the main rotor doesn't slow down and the amp draw doesn't go up when adding more mass in motion, then something really strange is happening.:thinking:

Lidmotor

synchro
06-07-2009, 08:46 PM
Jonnydavro's most recent discovery gave me a new idea. A circular tube, rotating an internal sphere magnet, powered by a set of Bedini coil collars positioned at intervals around the tube. Between the coil collars, output windings could be wraped around the tube. Let's say four collars at cross coners and four large semicircular copper wraps in between. The tube could be evacuated of air, and the magnet sphere would really start to rip around the inside. Output would be directly proportional to magnet strength.

jonnydavro
06-07-2009, 10:50 PM
Hi.I have managed to get the satellite magnets to self start and completly stable.(I have only tried 4 as i don't have any more containers but all 4 self started)I noticed yesterday that if i had a stationary satellite on the worktop within 7"of the main rotor,it would vibrate and then i realised it was spinning on the spot so i placed a pickup coil underneath and the Led will light to full brightness.I also tried the 6mm sphere's in toy plastic eggs and it works great.
Here is a vid and some pics.
YouTube - One magnet no bearing Bedini self starting stable satellite rotor test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI-4DbJH5jU)

@syncro.Thanks.Interesting idea's you keep coming up with.Your tube idea would probably work and it should give constant current.Keep em coming.:cheers: jonny
@Jbignes5.Hi.Thanks for your kind compliments.I have done a test today which has convinced me that it is relatively easy to recover the energy.Have a look at my latest vid and let me know what you think.
Regarding amp draw.With just the main rotor spinning,amp draw was 8.5mA.When i added the 10 satellites it went up to 11mA but from what i can see,each satellite is well capable off lighting an led to full brightness.:thumbsup: Regards jonny.
@Lidmotor.Thanks.I think syncro may be right.It would be interesting to know how your circuit performs with the snake egg rotor and also your high rpm sphere.Regards jonny:thumbsup:

Jbignes5
06-08-2009, 07:00 PM
@jonny You got it now all you need to do is harvest all that magnetic energy that is around the main rotor! Coils and mini mags all generating current from a low current drawing driver circuit as you are employing. This must be exciting for you to break new ground on this major discovery. Think 3d now. Pull energy from every angle you can and pool it together lets see what kind of multiplication you get from the single source.
You have got to start doing numbers now. figure out how much you are generating vs. your costs.
The video has a good example of how the main mag is not generating the current as you take away the mini mag the led goes out and that is what I had suspected. The magnetic force from the rotor is only strong enough to affect the mini mag and not the coil. I wonder if you have discovered a new aspect about magnets and how two magnets can form a magnetic vortex with each other. The proof is in the pudding there in the video since the coil does not get energized when you remove the mini mag but still keeps the mini mag running. what i think is that the central segments of the magnets are the vortex conduits. Your discovery leads me to believe that the vortexes created from spining are in fact linking up together forming a mag drive, kinda like a flexible drive shaft used in weed eaters and such. Too bad we cannot view the magnetic fields like a camera and see how they interact with each other or how more mini mags affect the vortex strength per drive. One thing that I suspect you will come to is that only a certain amount of mini mags can be run at the same time due to saturation of the magnetic field of your original rotor mag. But more experimenting is needed to fully flesh out your limits.
But it is indeed exciting to see that you have made great strides in this new discovery and you surprise me every day with the new observation you provide us on this subject. Keep up the great work my friend and anyone else who has contributed to this subject. Bravo!

Lidmotor
06-09-2009, 03:14 AM
I did some testing on my TOP using supercapacitors and a small solar panel to see if these spinners can be made to self run by using just a small amount of solar energy each day. It is an interesting study. At these low amp draws and voltages it looks good.:thumbsup:
Here is the video of it--

YouTube - Solar powered TOP CHARGER (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUs_L_pyGls)

Lidmotor

Jbignes5
06-09-2009, 12:24 PM
Lidmotor what a refreshing take on this subject. Not only should we be going in the more out then in but you have taken the efficiency to the next level. I do like the solar option seeing that if we can get more running on such little draw with a renewable source it would make it green to boot! Awesome job!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

@Lid did you try the new way to run satalites on that? or is it too small of a field to link to?

Lidmotor
06-09-2009, 03:23 PM
Lidmotor what a refreshing take on this subject. Not only should we be going in the more out then in but you have taken the efficiency to the next level. I do like the solar option seeing that if we can get more running on such little draw with a renewable source it would make it green to boot! Awesome job!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

@Lid did you try the new way to run satalites on that? or is it too small of a field to link to?

@Jbignes5-----I tried satellite spinners with the TOP CHARGER and so far have had no luck. The top does not spin very fast and the magnet inside the top is too far away to influence anything. I just got some small neo sphere magnets in the mail like Jonny is using and will do some testing with them. Getting those near the coil should spin them up.

Lidmotor

Xenomorph
06-09-2009, 03:25 PM
@ Jonnydavro and Bill:

I have aquired some magnetic spheres
6mm N45s and 5mm N40s

My initial test was targetted towards getting concrete numbers on the generation side using pick-up coils.
The voltages were small, which is due to the small size of the magnet.
Way below 1 Volt on average even.
So the only way to increase the output here is to build a huge pick-up system
and hope that it wont exert too much of a Lenz drag when used to power stuff.

Here is a video of it: YouTube - SatelliteRotors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP0RSBIP-rc)


Also i tried something else than pots, i used PVC tubes.
Couldnt get them to work though yet, because i think the coil is stalling the magnet once it becomes magnetized, just because it is too close to the magnet sphere the way i put it into the tube.

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4113/pvctube2.jpg

EDIT: I can make it work above the main rotor.

Here is a little video of it in action : YouTube - PVCTubeAction (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6T6eXPufxI)

jonnydavro
06-09-2009, 04:19 PM
@Jbignes5.Hi.I am having a lot of fun with this and have lost count of how many times i have said wow in the last week.Every time i mess with it,something new shows up so lets see what we can do with this.I totally agree on the magnet coupling between the main rotor and satellites and the satellites are solely resposible for lighting the Led.My next test will be to see if i can get some more satellites spinning and i have got another 38 today but no spare time till later this week to try but i feel lucky.Thanks for your kind comments and shareing your theories and ideas.:thumbsup: Regards Jonny.
@Xenomorph.You have got that up and running very quickly.Nice job.
I don't think you have much hope off recovering significant voltage using one aircore coil.The rotor is only passing the coil once per revolution and as the orbit is so wide the frequency of generation is low so your alternator type winding is far better suited for recovery with the wide orbiting satellite.
Have you seen my latest vid with the self starting stationary satellite?This is very efficient at energy recovery and you might want to try that.Intresting you got some 5mm sphere's and N45's.How do they compare 5mm to 6mm?
Are you using a core in your One mag Bedini?I am aircore.
Thanks for spending time and money on this,i hope you are having as much fun as me.:thumbsup: Regards jonny
@Lidmotor.I did not have much luck with larger sphere's.I think they have to be small so thet can react quick to the changing magnetic field but i think it will work with your top.Hope you get it going regards jonny.

Xenomorph
06-09-2009, 04:49 PM
@Jonnydavro:
I agree , alternator pickup is the only way to go with slow rotations.

I think the insane speed of the magnets rotating inside coils can be made use of.
How fast does the sphere rotate that lights the lid? i guess pretty fast.

At the moment i use a welding rod core, since i tried for the last 2 weeks to get that piggyback-coil thing going that fusionship has described

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/7017/protudingrods2.jpg

But it was a waste of time and money. The voltage is about 0.30 Volt at 3.6 Volts source battery and that is with a coil that matches exactly the specs that he stated: 500 g coil weight 0,2 mm wire and i have put 6800 turns on there.
I also tried 0,8 mm wire , 1400 turns and 1 whole kg of wire to get a higher current, but that didnt help too.
So the fact that he gets 50+ Volt out of his and 15 mA at 12V source led me to assume that his coil contains radioactive materials without him knowing ;)
Also because no-one has been able to replicate his (like his brother).

Anyway, so you go aircore on your main coil? Does that still give you charging off the collector?

The 5 and 6mm dont make much of a difference, speed maxima are really giving those voltage peaks.

I will try to replicate you latest vid and see what i can come up with
So you just put a magnet spere in that egg and it started to rotate by itself or is it just vibrating?

jonnydavro
06-09-2009, 05:06 PM
@Xenomorph.You can improove your voltage output by puting the sphere in a smaller container so the orbit is small but fast.The plastic egg is a good example.You should see the speed it goes in that when you give it a little shake to set it spinning and that will light an led too.
The stationary satelite is spinning as i have lost a few as they flew about my kitchen.
To get it to self start and spin on the spot.Place the sphere in an egg about 5" away from your coil and then spin the main rotor.The initial woblyness off the main rotor is what starts the satellites.once the rotor is going you can start more by holding them above the main rotor.
I am using aircore as the main rotor seems more stable at the voltage and speed i am running at and there is no attraction between satellites and core and it still charges.Regards jonny

Xenomorph
06-09-2009, 06:07 PM
@Jonnydavro:

YouTube - RotorEgg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9heFPxkas3s)

Very weird, i cant measure any induction although the little sphere is rotating inside the egg like crazy. :thinking:
But that is also how you do it right ?

I will try different pickup positions maybe.

EDIT: Okay i have positioned the pickup coil now perpendicular to the egg and voila it outperforms the big plastic pots.
The average voltage is about half a volt with peaks of up to 0.8 Volt.
So by placing two coils from 2 sides very close to the egg you can get 1 Volt off that egg.

10 eggs will add up to 10 Volts (not under load though), hard to say how much it will be under load.
It all depends on your coil of course. I used a 2000 turn coil. So if you have a 4k or 5k turn coil it will be even better ;)
Guess that calls to be tried out now hehe.

Cheers,
Xenomorph

Jbignes5
06-09-2009, 07:51 PM
@Xeno I am having a hard time understanding why your magnets are in a wide rotation unlike Jonnys. weird.

@Jonny Your satalites are smooth running axially spinning right? I understand the excitement you are feeling since you and others like Xeno keep us well informed by Videos we too are just as excited lol.
I started to read a pdf about the rotoverter and harmonics used to get more out then input-> OU. I wonder if with the higher speed spinning of the sphere mags could be utilizing some form of phased harmonics to attain higher rpms. One of the videos actually showed that the spheres would shift like to a higher pitch and I am thinking that has something to do with what you are doing as well.
The vortex connection or link up is definetly what is going on by mine and your observations. Now we just need to know if there is a limit to the connections made to the bigger rotor mag. Also do you think the satalites are super rotating like harmonically? Or would that have to be in direct center of the drive coil like the other videos about the 150-300k variety?

jonnydavro
06-09-2009, 08:25 PM
@Xenomorph.I have just watched your Rotor egg video and you won't be able to induce voltage with the coil in that position with an orbiting magnet like you have in the egg.You have to turn it 90 degree's but i think you have found that out.If it was stationary satellite then that position would work but like me,you have positioned the egg for stability when the best position for it is with the stationary magnet directly over the windings.If you look back a couple of posts i posted a picture of my egg rotor.The magnet in the picture is spinning like crazy but it does not move from that position.This is due to the shape of the lid which is slightly conical with a hole in the bottom.I tried to post pictures of the eggs i am using here but have run out off attachment space so i posted them at overunity.Also i try to keep my main rotor as still as possible so that the magnetic field is evenly distributed around the centre platform so multiple satellites all sit in a stable field.This may be stopping you from getting a stable spinner.:thumbsup:
What voltage are you running the One mag Bedini on?Regards jonny
@Jbignes.Hi.The shape of Xenomorph's pots and i think he is probably using a higher voltage than me are whats causing the eratic orbit.Mine do exactly the same if i turn the pot the right way up.If you look at the vid and picks you will see i am running them tops down.They spin in a flat trajectory this way.:thumbsup: Regards jonny

jonnydavro
06-09-2009, 10:01 PM
Hi.As i am the only one with a stable satellite magnet i thought it may be best if i measure the pickup coil output from one stable spinner and it is 7.54v ac.Here is a pic.regards jonny:thumbsup:
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4773/acvoltage754v.jpg

How do i get this pic to show up?I have run out of attachment space.

Xenomorph
06-09-2009, 10:14 PM
@Jonny: To compare our values, can you maybe measure that also after a bridge rectifier?
Or i will measure the AC (not true AC i know) right off the coil wires if i can stabilize it hehe.

Ah and i run at 3.8 Volt source voltage, you were right that this speeds the rotors more up than yours.
But i had to go that high with the voltage because i have not been able to start the circuit with lower
voltages for an inexplicable reason.
I will get some better potentiometers, i think mine are of very low quality sometimes even not functioning right.


Have you tried to PM Aaron to give you more attachment space?
I mean, you are an important contributor to this forum and you are not a spammer, so you
deserve to be able to post attachments illustrating your fascinating experiments .

Lidmotor
06-09-2009, 10:17 PM
I got the satellite magent rotors to work using the 3/8" spheres that I just got. The best part was that they spin up inside a coil of 30 ga wire and make an LED light up---from 6" away. This is neat stuff.:dance:

YouTube - Satellite Magnet Rotors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQXArYBAloo)

Lidmotor

jonnydavro
06-09-2009, 11:21 PM
@Xenomorph.I have just done a quick test with a bridge rectifier and it is reading 8.05v DC.
Strange you can't go below 3.8v.Pots may sort it or maybe one in series with the coil.I think its important to stabilise your rotor though,Can you take your core out?
I will try asking Aaron.Thanks for that.:thumbsup:
@Lidmotor.I new you would get it going.I think there are lots of posibilities with this.Try spinning you rotor without the battery and the small sphere still spins up and lights the led.I think this could be a new type of generator and be used in wind turbines and even powered by fixed rotor motors.I hope you are having fun Lid,it sure looks like it .What voltage are you getting of your pickup coil and if you tape a piece of cardboard to each side you will have a self contained generator.Thanks for the stability tip.Regards jonny:thumbsup:

Jbignes5
06-10-2009, 12:18 AM
@Lidmotor Yet another that proves there is a linking mechanism between the satalites and the main rotor. Great! I knew it would work from all the experiments that the guys were doing here and it goes to show you how potentially powerful that link can become. I suspect you are right in your assumption that you can use multiple satalites not only 2d wise around the rotor but 3d as well. Meaning that if you configure the satalites with enough space in between not only could you link to the main rotor but each satalite could link to eachother as well. This, I would think, can make a resonate network stabilizing all of them. Think of a half of a buckminster fuller ball upside down like network (geodesic dome) or to put it simply a soccer ball cut in half upside down. Lets say you could fit 10 or so on the first level then 6-7 on the next and maybe 4 for the last all with pickup coils around them. Imagine the generation you could get from that.
Concidering your input that is impressive OU!

Ok the next question should be this: Jonny is this scalable? Could you make it bigger if you had to? Bigger main coil, bigger main rotor and bigger satalites with coils of course? Not to big but big enough to get something good out from as little input as possible?

tai61
06-10-2009, 09:48 AM
anybody can you help me source some of those diametrically opp. cylinder mags , have looked everywhere on google,but no leads.my haematite just dosent cut it for the the satalites, any assistance appreciated.:thumbsup:

Mark
06-10-2009, 03:02 PM
Look here under ring magnets K&J Magnetics - Products (http://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=16)

Xenomorph
06-10-2009, 09:12 PM
@tai61:
Check post 135 of this thread or http://www.energeticforum.com/54581-post135.html. It has been posted before by jonny.

Lidmotor
06-11-2009, 02:36 AM
I took my satellite rotor generator, put a bridge rectifier on it, and ran a Joule Thief with it. It slows down the main rotor when the JT load is applied but the amp draw does not go up on the system. I am running the 3/8" sphere inside a coil of 30 Ga wire. I found that there is sort of a sweet spot in distance from the main rotor where you get the most out of everything.
I also found out that the system still generates after the power is turned off until the top spins down.

YouTube - TOP CHARGER-- Runs a Joule Thief Wirelessly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1pV-zHUWck)

Lidmotor

tai61
06-11-2009, 09:36 AM
xenomorph. cheers for that

Xenomorph
06-11-2009, 11:54 AM
@Lidmotor: Excellent, that is exactly there direction that i like to be researched about this circuit. Particularly interesting would be to add more generator coil/spheres and see if that wont stall the rotor completely. Thane C Heine´s high-voltage coils that are supposed to speed the main rotor up would counteract the lenz drag here, however i have no info on the specs of his coils nor if they really work as it sounds weird. Im addition the one magnet motor does not reach a high enough speed (like 30k RPM) to even make use of that unfortunately.

Regards,Xenomoph

Jbignes5
06-11-2009, 12:40 PM
@lidmotor Thats a great experiment. The only thing is i think your top mags are not strong enough to get a real effect here. Even though you are getting it to work I think it all is too close to be effective. Maybe a stronger mag in the top would let the satalite work farther from your setup enabling it to couple better. You are definetly running at bare min specs. Unlike Jonny who has a greater distance and allowing him to work the rig unaltered by the satalites or pickup coils affecting the main rotor(top in your case). It proves that you need a certain strength of rotor mags in order to facilitate a longer vortex link. Here is one experiment also you could try. Remove the satalite mag from the coil and see if you are generating from the main coil. This would tell you that you are crossing the perimiter of the main coil and stealing field strength from your main coil which I suspect you are doing. It would explain why the coil distance with your setup is affecting the main rotor speed.
We need to start ramping up and building bigger to increase the effect that is being seen with Jonny's type of a setup. Since he has run his unit with many many satalites without it affecting his main rotor setup that would be the minimum setup to start from.
I think Jonny should concentrate on finishing up what he is doing and start adding complete statlite+coils in a step by step process and start keeping numbers for each step in order to see if we are getting more each time as he add each satalite units. It would be interesting to see just how far Jonny could get before it gets out of hand.
Good job Guys very good experiments!

Xenomorph
06-11-2009, 01:43 PM
@Jbignes5:
Even with a stronger main rotor, Lenz drag will occur. Only with an attached RPM-meter you could make accurate statements about the main rotor´s speed.
It is impossible to eliminate the Lenz effect with exactly this one magnet motor set-up.
Dont forget that Lidmotor put the thing under a comparatively substantial load (Joule Thief) while Jonny has been lighting a single LED.
I really hope there is sweetspots for many satellites and an actual benefit in placing many satellites as opposed to just using one stronger satellite cylinder magnet (which simply represents the numeric addition of the smaller spheres´ field strengths after all) The small spheres have a much smaller magnetic field compared to the cylinder magnet and therefore induce unfortunately a much lower voltage.

I encourage you to replicate this and experiment around, seems like you have a lot of ideas in your mind about it. Its easy to build,really :thumbsup:

Jbignes5
06-11-2009, 02:01 PM
Yes I am getting things situated in my room to faciltate a bench to do replications on. Getting equiptment also is alot of savings so it is harder for me to get the instruments that I need. My wife is another hurdle and I am getting her used to the idea that I will have a bench in the bedroom since thats the only free space I got to work with lol.
I have tons of Ideas and experiments to try and I also like to try at least for now to help you guys see ideas to try with your setups. Right now I need to move a bunch of things in order to facilitate the bench so it might take some time and convincing my wife to place it where I need it.
But for now I am content to give away my good ideas to the guys who can use them. I hope it helps. If not then I am sorry for bothering you guys.

Lidmotor
06-11-2009, 04:45 PM
Yes I am getting things situated in my room to faciltate a bench to do replications on. Getting equiptment also is alot of savings so it is harder for me to get the instruments that I need. My wife is another hurdle and I am getting her used to the idea that I will have a bench in the bedroom since thats the only free space I got to work with lol.
I have tons of Ideas and experiments to try and I also like to try at least for now to help you guys see ideas to try with your setups. Right now I need to move a bunch of things in order to facilitate the bench so it might take some time and convincing my wife to place it where I need it.
But for now I am content to give away my good ideas to the guys who can use them. I hope it helps. If not then I am sorry for bothering you guys.

@jbigness5---Man I feel your pain about finding a place to do the work. I have to do all my work on the kitchen counter and table. EVERYTHING has to be gone when the little lady shows up. It is very hard to build something this way. I put my things in a cardboard box out of sight when I finish for the day. I grew up having a full garage work shop to work in and this has been a supreme challenge to build things in the house. My advice is to be very neat and tidy about it and keep the peace.
As far as the Lenz thing ---it is just there and won't go away. We are just going to have to deal with it. I like what I saw with the JT circuit running off this setup. It is encouraging.:thumbsup:

@Xenomorph----You are right about the Lenz drag and I do agree that multiple satellites placed at the sweet spots will work. I got four satellites spinning up in water glasses that seemed to link and go into a sort of harmonic resonance.:thinking: I had them at the four corners of my setup. That is something else to look into. Jonny ----I think that you have already figured this one out

Lidmotor

Jbignes5
06-11-2009, 05:02 PM
Yeah I got everything ok'ed by the little woman today. Yeah I can my own little piece as long as it does not get out of hand. One benie is that it is a short hop to the fun bed heh. Work, then have some fun, could life get any better? lol

ok so back to the conversation at hand. I don't think Jonny saw much lenz affect from the distance he was doing the 10 satalites from but he also didn't have coils on all of them or he didn't report much about the lenz affect.. It might not be as apparent in the larger setup he has and yes Resonance even in this sytem will be key to getting the max out of it. Resonance should manifest unusual effects as well but until we have complete systems up and running one will never tell.
Please don't take my suggestions as badgering but until I have my own setup going this is the only release I have for my ideas. I hate having to stiffle my creative side, it tends to build up and drive me nutz from not having an outlet. I don't want to be seen as a badgerer. At least I hope I am not doing that. Thanks for putting up with that side of me till I can get the setup complete for myself.

jonnydavro
06-11-2009, 07:14 PM
@Lidmotor.Nice vid Lid:thumbsup: I to have been experimenting with powering an efficient joule thief but i can run mine from a single satellite at a distance of 9" but not as bright as when it is closer with no dead zone like you show in your vid.I tried your radio trick and lenz is alive and well but we new that anyway.I can here it slow when i load it close to the main rotor but can't really notice much difference when the satellite is further away but there will be some.I shorted the coil and then the sphere would maintain rotation up to a distance of 6" from the main rotor and stall if moved further.Here's a pic of the joule thief test.
Thanks for doing that run down test and the amp info and the 555 timer could improove efficiency even further,kinda like driving up a hill and coasting down the other side.
I wonder if your sphere is stalling as it may have to much wiggle room?Or maybe the sphere's magnetic field is different from the cylinder?
Do you think a 1" cylinder will fit in your top?
anyway great stuff Lid:thumbsup: regards jonny
@Xenomorph.Forget the plastic eggs and try a top of a washing up liquid bottle,the type which has a plunger as a satellite housing.It works great even with an eratic rotor but better with a stable one so you will be able to see a stable satellite if you have not already got one going.I have enclosed a pick for you.:thumbsup: Regards jonny
@Jbignes.To see if this is scalable we would have to get a bigger main rotor magnet or stack a few on top of each other maybe.I don't know how big they make them?I think a 1 foot diameter one would spin tennis ball size neo's but we need to find out the best way to go with this as it is early days yet and plenty more things to find.
P.S.I am glad you have decided to replicate this as it is quite amazing to look at in the flesh and it will get them creative juices flowing.:thumbsup: regards jonny
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4460/satalitejoulethief.jpg
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6841/washingupliquidtoprotor.jpg