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Aaron
04-27-2007, 12:01 AM
Bedini Cap Charger discussion. The chargers with with bridge to cap setup. Can be with mechanical pulley switch setup, 555 timer switch, neon bulb switch, etc... With rotor or self-oscillating.

lighty
05-05-2007, 03:17 PM
I always wondered why did Bedini put thyristor in the "negative" branch of the discharge circuit? It seems to me as if it's all the same if one puts the SCR's anode directly to the positive end of the capacitor and then use it to discharge the cap into the battery or if one puts cathode of the SCR to the negative terminal of the cap and then discharge the cap into the battery.

What's the difference? I mean, I've found some very vague explanation in Bedini's latest patent about polarization of the SCR being related to the type of energy used in the circuit but to me it seems as if the SCR is simply the one way fast switch that's being used to close the circuit (or to be more precise to discharge the capacitor to the battery) so it shouldn't matter if one connect thyristor either way as long as the proper polarity is observed?

Could somebody explain the rationale behind the kind of configuration used by Bedini in his patent?

Aaron
05-05-2007, 05:39 PM
If you simply mean why is it triggered on the negative of cap to negative of battery...

If the positive is connected but the negative is not, that means that the positive potential from the cap is ALREADY sitting inside of the battery being charged. As soon as the negative side is connected, you have the negative charge popping towards the battery and the charging effect is stronger. It does make a difference.

If the neg is connected, the neg potential is sitting in the battery and when triggered on the positive, then the positive still has to make its way through the battery. The other way, the pos is already in the battery.

John or Peter can of course explain this better but I thought Free Energy Generation book did a good job at explaining it.

When the neg is discharged, the battery itself I suppose is a resistor and since it is, the anti-photon potential around the circuit is sucked towards the battery at this point of resistance.

When the positive of cap is connected to the pos of the batt, look at the battery at simply being an extension of the dipole.

Look at the coil in the simple school girl, the + of battery is ALREADY sitting inside of the coil and the coil is already an extension of the dipole of the input battery. Being an extension of the dipole on the positive side, the positive doesn't have to take the time to overcome the resistance of moving into the coil or moving into a battery.

Peter Lindemann
05-05-2007, 07:27 PM
I always wondered why did Bedini put thyristor in the "negative" branch of the discharge circuit? It seems to me as if it's all the same if one puts the SCR's anode directly to the positive end of the capacitor and then use it to discharge the cap into the battery or if one puts cathode of the SCR to the negative terminal of the cap and then discharge the cap into the battery.

What's the difference? I mean, I've found some very vague explanation in Bedini's latest patent about polarization of the SCR being related to the type of energy used in the circuit but to me it seems as if the SCR is simply the one way fast switch that's being used to close the circuit (or to be more precise to discharge the capacitor to the battery) so it shouldn't matter if one connect thyristor either way as long as the proper polarity is observed?

Could somebody explain the rationale behind the kind of configuration used by Bedini in his patent?

Dear Lighty,

As Aaron just explained, John has looked at switching both the negative and the positive sides and studied the situation in depth. From a theoretical point of view, there doesn't seem to be any reason for a difference. But on the bench, in the real world, there are differences. John has his own way of explaining it, and that's in the book "Free Energy Generation". Here is my way of seeing it. In a lead-acid battery, all of the action is on the positive plate. When discharging, the lead peroxide of the positive plate is donating oxygen atoms to join with hydrogen from the H2SO4 in the electrolyte to be converted to new water molecules and free sulfate ions that deposit on both the positive and negative plates. When charging, this process is reversed, but the action is always on the positive plate. When you try to charge the battery from the negative plate with a big push of negative electrons, the charge has to travel through the electrolyte to get to the positive plate where the reformation of the lead peroxide IS the restoration of the chemical charge. When the positive plate is potentialized, the battery charges differently, at lower temperatures and with less off-gassing.

These things can not be figured out simply by THINKING ABOUT IT. You have to run the experiments if you want to learn anything. And that's the difference. John has run every conceivable experiment in this regard, and that's why he knows more than the rest of us!

I hope that helps.

Peter

lighty
05-05-2007, 11:45 PM
@Aaron
@Peter

Thx for the explanation. Now I seem to understand a principle behind it a bit better than before. I did a number of experiments but to be honest I didn't see any difference between these two configurations. I trust Bedini's experience but I also trust in understanding underlying principles rather than simply replicating them.

Also regarding the positive and negative poles of Lead-Acid batteries I cannot but to remember what Leedskalnin described in his experiments and that I replicated and verified. He stated that there is always a larger number of "north pole magnetic particles" in the battery and that they're all sourced from the (+) pole of the battery. I did replicate his PMH and did a number of precision measurements. What I've found is that Leedskalnin was correct in his assertions- no matter what you do with the PMH core, no matter how you polarize coils there will always be a disbalance of magnetic poles in the PMH. The North will always be geometrically predominant in the PMH and it will always be somewhat stronger. I repeated the experiment several times using professional gaussmeter and it always showed the same. One half of PMH is always spatially bigger than the other one and it's always the north pole. So if a north pole is produced by the tiny magnetic particles from the (+) pole of the battery then Leedskalnin was correct in assuming there is more north pole magnets or rather (+) pole particles in the battery.

I'm getting way offtopic here but it just strike me as oddly connected to your explanation.

Aaron
05-06-2007, 07:04 AM
That's an interesting comparision.

My personal experience with the trifilar oscillator going to caps and to batts discharging on the negative side took my results quite a bit further. I could get the batt voltages higher, they powered a load longer, etc... My trifiliar really isn't a trifilar with all 3 wound the same way. the 3rd wire going to bridge and cap is wound in the opposite direction from the power and trigger.

Anyway, pulsing from neg gave me better results.

lighty
05-06-2007, 11:33 AM
@Aaron
Your "secondary" is wound in the opposite direction than the power coil? What would that gain you? According to conventional theory you would just end up with the opposite polarity of the coil. To be honest I never tried it and maybe there something more about it that I don't know anything about?


Also, regarding the coils wound Bedini style I've noticed several things:

1. The mass of the copper wire is pretty much the same weight in the power and "secondary" sections. It seems to me that it goes according to Tesla's assertion that in order to transfer and/or gain some amount of radiant energy in any kind of resonant system one has to have the equal mass of conductive metal in primary and "secondary".
2. The bifilar or trifilar winding of coils should theoretically provide coils with the best capacitive coupling between them. Now, if we disregard the inductive (or to be more precise magnetic coupling) then what one is left with is capacitive coupling (which is related directly to dielectric field). Now, my guess is that with better capacitive coupling a better dielectric field between two coils is formed and thus one should get a better transfer of radiant energy. I'm wildly speculating here, of course.
3. The Litz wire has the less resistance to the fast transients or in this particular case the sudden impulses. It also shows less impedance at high frequencies which is precisely what one should expect from the extreme high frequencies radiant energy event. My guess is that all those factors explains for the greater amount or radiant energy produced (or rather captured) by these sort of wire. I did several measurements of the three different kind of coils- the one wound with ordinary round wire, the one wound with copper strip and the one wound with Litz wire. They were all used in the same switching setup, wound on the same type of core and they all had pretty much the same resistance and inductance (I dimensioned wire sizes accordingly). The Litz wire and copper strip showed pretty much similar radiant energy gain but the ordinary round profile wire coil showed a significantly weaker performance. So, the geometry and construction of the wire itself does make a difference. I also managed to acquire some aluminium wire but still haven't had opportunity to test it. My guess is that aluminium wire should outperform copper wire in the sense that aluminium itself proved itself to be a better medium for collecting static electricity (which is by nature damn near the dielectricity).



There is also one more thing that's bothering me regarding a usage of the diode bridge on the "secondary" coil. If you have measured power coil consumption with a current probe on a fast oscilloscope you could have noticed that the moment the power coil is turned on, the power consumption suddenly rises significantly while at the same time the discharge capacitor potential suddenly rises. That to me would indicate some kind of "transformer effect". I also did simultaneous measurement of the both power coil current and the "secondary" coil current and invariably when the capacitor is fully discharged (or rather when it has potential less than the potential of the power source being applied to the power coil) there is a noticeable current rise in the power coil as well as in the "secondary" coil prior to the power coil current cut-off and before the first radiant event occur. My interpretation of it is that prior to the first impulse of radiant energy the capacitor is being charged to the voltage level of the power source solely by the inductive coupling of the coils or rather by "transformer effect". It's easily preventable by simply using one diode instead of a diode bridge so that the inductive coupling of the coils doesn't play such a big role. I tested it and it indeed shows that a current consumption during the first pulse is reduced significantly and that the capacitor is almost not being charged prior to the occurence of the first radiant energy event. Now, my question is what is the rationale behind using the diode bridge in the first place? I mean there is a definite "ringing" of the potential of the "secondary" coil while it's energy being discharged into the capacitor that could be picked up by the diode bridge but is that the only reason for using the diode bridge in the first place? I mean it seems to me that it's simply the choice between picking up all of the energy available (diode bridge) and reducing the "transformer effect" (single diode).

Shad
05-07-2007, 11:45 AM
Hi Peter

I just joined the group - looks like something good among all the groups :)

Shortly ago I studied your lectures carefully which were really inspiring and made me thinking! Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with us! :notworthy:

I often wondered how Bedini charges his batteries - in my eyes he is the master of radiant energy.
I don't understand much of the electronics but rather the physics behind it and am convinced that with his energy spikes/back-emf he causes a radiant event in his battery, which causes the battery to recharge. How he causes this radiant event, is his secret, but it surely is not enough to shoot back-emf into the battery...

Actually, batteries aren't really charged, that is some kind of wrong understanding. What is really happening there is that a kind of electro plating occurs while a battery is charged with current. In his process Bedini causes an avalanche effect of radiant energy in the batteries, similar effects were reported in Tesla's works. However, a battery is no capacitor that stores energy, but there rather occurs an electro-chemical process, which might be mis-interpreted by electro-techniques.

If two different kind of metals are put into an electrolyte, the electrodes will generate ions, or in better words, dielectric charges. If we short out the electrodes and the current starts flowing, electro plating occurs whereby the electrodes start dissolving and exchange each other.
If one charges batteries, a vice versa process is done - and once the electrodes have recovered, we use to say the batteries are charged, because they give power again.


Peter, I have a question to you - what do you think would be happen if we took the ions/dielectric charges in some 'indirect way' away from the battery, without using and destroying the producing electrodes?

Imagine in the same electrolyte you would have two neutral electrodes, made from the same material, like non-magnetic stainless steel. We need the same material in both electrodes because in this way we do not produce any ions/dielectric charges. If now these two electrodes would be shortened out in pulses, they would have to polarize and some current would flow through them.

In this way it would be possible in some indirect way to tap electricity from the battery, without destroying the electrodes that produce the ions and electricity.

But what would be used here was the water, as every time electricity comes across the electrodes an electrolysis would occur. Then water would have to be refilled, whereby the electrolyte is not being used up.

In my eyes the greatest problem is that we use batteries in a wrong way and that we have a wrong understanding of electricity. We always destroy the electricity source - if we had a way of taking it in an indirect way, we would have plenty free electricity and hydrogen from a so-called electrochemical process.

What do you think? Or am I too creative? :)
Well, my English sometimes sounds weird, but I hope I made my point clear...

Best wishes,
Shad

lighty
05-07-2007, 12:28 PM
@Shad

I'm not sure you even need electrolyte. I distinctly remember that somebody reported a partial charging of Lead-Acid battery even when H2SO4 was replaced with distilled (or rather de-ionized water). I think the person reporting it was Bedini himself or Bearden.

While I cannot verify that claim as such I can confirm that a small charge can indeed be stored in a de-mineralized and de-ionized water (like in a battery) when a water is excited (or rather shocked) in a specific way even when not using a different material electrodes.

Which of course brings us to a question of dielectric charge itself and water is specific matter in that way. Schauberger reported a charging of water when a water was forced (or in this case it would be more appropriate to say coerced) to move in the fast centripetal motion. A reported charging of the surrounding metals was a common place and I'm not talking about the "Kelvin's water drop" experiment but rather about very powerful dielectric phenomena on the scale being able to power up incandescent lightbulbs or even burn them up.

Dielectricity is a rather funny thing, eh? ;)

Shad
05-07-2007, 05:04 PM
Hi Lighty,

<@Shad
<I'm not sure you even need electrolyte. I distinctly remember that somebody
<reported a partial charging of Lead-Acid battery even when H2SO4 was
<replaced with distilled (or rather de-ionized water). I think the person
<reporting it was Bedini himself or Bearden.

My personal opinion is that the battery together with its electrodes, electrolyte is not the source of energy, but merely the medium. Such as the atmosphere on our planet or the globe itself – this also merely is a medium for aether or vacuum energy, in which energy can materialize and manifest. If you put the right media together a lot of energy can, for free, accrue. A nice example here is exotic matter, such as mono-atomic gold, also called ORMUS, which you can find googling. This material seems to be a great mystery for science, but one scientific fact is that it is very closely connected to gravity and zero point energy. The laws of thermo-dynamics here do not seem to have any influence on this exotic matter.

Back to the battery: I think that the biggest problem is that while taping power from it the electrodes are degenerated by the electro-plating effect, whereby electricity has to be invested to again regenerate them.

But what will happen if besides the ‘normal’ electrodes, one additionally inserts neutral electrodes that do not produce any charges, but would be able to tap the surrounding charges in the electrolyte of the battery? The electrodes that generate the charges would thereby not degenerate, because there is no electro-plating. If we tap electricity directly from the electrode that generates the charge, we do destroy the source of energy. The battery generates the charge for free by the right combination of materials.

However, we destroy this process with the electro-plating effect which occurs when electricity runs through the electrodes. If two electrodes of same materials are put into the electrolyte such as non-magnetic stainless steel, these electrodes will not generate any charge, but are able to absorb the charge.
The electrodes hereby do not decay by electro-plating, but every time they would be shortened out hydrogen would be generated, as electricity would flow through the electrodes. This one should be no problem, as long as water is for free available, the electrolyte either wouldn’t be used up, from time to time it would need to be refilled and the original electrodes that generate the charge remain intact, without degenerating.

> While I cannot verify that claim as such I can confirm that a small charge can indeed be
> stored in a de-mineralized and de-ionized water (like in a battery) when a water is
> excited (or rather shocked) in a specific way even when not using a different material
> electrodes.

Maybe I am wrong - but I think the same would happen, such as in ordinary charging, if a radiant event occurs in the battery. This means the electrodes recover. The problem merely would be that if there was no electrolyte be present, after recovering the electrodes very little electricity would be generated, as the electrolyte as the medium, is missing.

The recovery of the electrodes can also happen without electrolyte, as for this merely is the bombardment of radiant spikes is needed.

But I could be wrong… I guess John Bedini is the only one that could say what is right or wrong, as he is the inventor of such battery charging system with radiant energy.

> Which of course brings us to a question of dielectric charge itself and water is specific > matter in that way. Schauberger reported a charging of water when a water was forced > (or in this case it would be more appropriate to say coerced) to move in the fast
> centripetal motion. A reported charging of the surrounding metals was a common place > and I'm not talking about the "Kelvin's water drop" experiment but rather about very
> powerful dielectric phenomena on the scale being able to power up incandescent
> lightbulbs or even burn them up.

> Dielectricity is a rather funny thing, eh? ;)

You are absolutely right here – Schauberger in his way charged water for healing purposes. He was even able to make water-diesel with fluid dynamics. The water was that much charged with dielectricity that it combusted better than diesel, gasoline or kerosene, even better than hydrogen/oxygen from electrolysis. The made real detailed measurements and report on this work during WWII.

So, if we understood dielectricity better, we could make a handful of miracles 

Thanks to pioneers like Tesla, Keely, Schauberger, today’s people like Tom Bearden, John Bedini, Edwin Gray, and those who share their knowledge here, as Dr. Peter Lindemann it is much more easy for us to understand as they have done the spadework! If they would not have done it, today we would be quiet ignorant about radiant energy, zpe, or however we might want to call it.

Best regards,
Shad

lighty
05-07-2007, 06:38 PM
A nice example here is exotic matter, such as mono-atomic gold, also called ORMUS, which you can find googling. This material seems to be a great mystery for science, but one scientific fact is that it is very closely connected to gravity and zero point energy. The laws of thermo-dynamics here do not seem to have any influence on this exotic matter.

It's interesting that all of the "electrical healing systems" employ one or other kind of dielectricity. I did a lot of work with Rife system and I also did some small amount of work on Lakhovsky system. The common thing is that when you remove the magnetic component of the radiation what's left is a dielectric field which seems to have potent healing potential. The same thing happens with the Schauberger "energized" water. The more interesting aspect is the experiment done by BSRF (or at least I've read about it in one of their journals) regarding a plant growth in the complete darkness. The system used was pretty much similar to the Tesla patent on the radiant energy but the plants were kept between the plates of what was basically the capacitor. I personally witnessed operation of basically similar system of healing with dielectric field in Russia and let me tell you it heals a lot of ailments usually deemed as un-curable. They also employ a system where a sudden and short high potential spikes (in potential range of 3-4 kV) of extreme short durations are applied directly through body. That device also has a tremendous healing potential and it something to think about when considering electric healing systems like Hulda Clark's where a square wave output is applied directly to body tissues- well, if such small impulses and negligible back-EMF generated are able to help healing then imagine what a Russian system might do. Of course there is always more to that then it's being told as my hosts made sure I was aware of. ;)



But what will happen if besides the ‘normal’ electrodes, one additionally inserts neutral electrodes that do not produce any charges, but would be able to tap the surrounding charges in the electrolyte of the battery? The electrodes that generate the charges would thereby not degenerate, because there is no electro-plating.I think that in this case you would basically get something that Frolov calls "an information providing". It means that you only have to provide some open loop system with the information that the energy is available in order to get the system to react (or at least that's how I understand it). The other way of putting is that you only need to provide the potential and then not allow the system to destroy or rather discharge that potential directly. Bearden says something along that line also although with different terminology. It's pretty much similar to the voltage appearing between the electrodes of the asymetrical capacitor placed between two magnetic monopole beamers like used by Bushman. There is no direct magnetic induction involved but rather an indirect potential appearance caused by the dielectric field appearing in between interacting magnetic monopoles.



The recovery of the electrodes can also happen without electrolyte, as for this merely is the bombardment of radiant spikes is needed.

But I could be wrong… I guess John Bedini is the only one that could say what is right or wrong, as he is the inventor of such battery charging system with radiant energy.As I said earlier- Bedini himself mentioned this effect in one of the references of his book. I take down my hat to Bedini, he really is one of the great ones. Or at least one of the ones we've heard of. :notworthy:



The water was that much charged with dielectricity that it combusted better than diesel, gasoline or kerosene, even better than hydrogen/oxygen from electrolysis. The further step would be the combustion of air itself and if I recall correctly there is a Russian patent issued on that matter. The team from Russia supposedly succeeded in producing a "carburetor" system that allowed air to get to the point of self-combustion. Although I don't have any further info on that one I suspect that they simply oversaturated atmospheric air (rich with Nitrogen) with dielectric charge to the point where it started to combust on it's own. I remember Tesla saying that combustion of matter or gases is nothing more than a release of electrostatic energy from the matter. In fact with some of his coils he demonstrated discharges that produced what appeared to be white flames of extreme temperatures. In fact Jeff Behary reproduced one of his coils and got the same results.


So, if we understood dielectricity better, we could make a handful of miracles Indeed. :thumbsup:



Thanks to pioneers like Tesla, Keely, Schauberger, today’s people like Tom Bearden, John Bedini, Edwin Gray, and those who share their knowledge here, as Dr. Peter Lindemann it is much more easy for us to understand as they have done the spadework!Bedini/Bearden duo is indeed something to be reckon with and Peter Lindemann is the guy who is extremely good in popularizing stuff that is otherwise somewhat hard to grasp. :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:

Peter Lindemann
05-07-2007, 07:36 PM
Hi Peter

I just joined the group - looks like something good among all the groups :)

Shortly ago I studied your lectures carefully which were really inspiring and made me thinking! Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with us! :notworthy:

I often wondered how Bedini charges his batteries - in my eyes he is the master of radiant energy.
I don't understand much of the electronics but rather the physics behind it and am convinced that with his energy spikes/back-emf he causes a radiant event in his battery, which causes the battery to recharge. How he causes this radiant event, is his secret, but it surely is not enough to shoot back-emf into the battery...

Actually, batteries aren't really charged, that is some kind of wrong understanding. What is really happening there is that a kind of electro plating occurs while a battery is charged with current. In his process Bedini causes an avalanche effect of radiant energy in the batteries, similar effects were reported in Tesla's works. However, a battery is no capacitor that stores energy, but there rather occurs an electro-chemical process, which might be mis-interpreted by electro-techniques.

If two different kind of metals are put into an electrolyte, the electrodes will generate ions, or in better words, dielectric charges. If we short out the electrodes and the current starts flowing, electro plating occurs whereby the electrodes start dissolving and exchange each other.
If one charges batteries, a vice versa process is done - and once the electrodes have recovered, we use to say the batteries are charged, because they give power again.


Peter, I have a question to you - what do you think would be happen if we took the ions/dielectric charges in some 'indirect way' away from the battery, without using and destroying the producing electrodes?

Imagine in the same electrolyte you would have two neutral electrodes, made from the same material, like non-magnetic stainless steel. We need the same material in both electrodes because in this way we do not produce any ions/dielectric charges. If now these two electrodes would be shortened out in pulses, they would have to polarize and some current would flow through them.

In this way it would be possible in some indirect way to tap electricity from the battery, without destroying the electrodes that produce the ions and electricity.

But what would be used here was the water, as every time electricity comes across the electrodes an electrolysis would occur. Then water would have to be refilled, whereby the electrolyte is not being used up.

In my eyes the greatest problem is that we use batteries in a wrong way and that we have a wrong understanding of electricity. We always destroy the electricity source - if we had a way of taking it in an indirect way, we would have plenty free electricity and hydrogen from a so-called electrochemical process.

What do you think? Or am I too creative? :)
Well, my English sometimes sounds weird, but I hope I made my point clear...

Best wishes,
Shad

Hi Shad,

Your speculations here are generally correct! It is possible to make a cell with different metals that produces electricity with NO chemical changes occurring on the plates. Such a device is, technically, NOT a battery, but such things DO exist. They are the best proof that REAL electricity is NOT the movement of electrons. Lead-acid batteries do require some electron flow to function properly and John's chargers produce the right mix of Radiant Energy and electron flow to optimize the battery process.

I have witnessed a number of circuits that John has produced that blocked 99% of the electron flow. The output of these circuits can light light bulbs and when applied to a battery, it looks like the battery is charging, at first. But very shortly thereafter, the battery blocks up and stops working. In small gel-cell batteries, the electrolyte dries up within 24 hours and the battery is dead. Even in large, flooded cell batteries, the process takes longer, but the result is the same. The battery becomes useless and can never be charged again.

The circuits that do these things are VERY counter-intuitive and no one is likely to stumble into them by chance. These discoveries only became apparent after extended study by John.

Theory can only get you so far. At some point, experiment must reduce theory to practice for knowledge to be advanced.

Peter

Aaron
05-09-2007, 10:33 PM
John Bedini | Radiant Energy (http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/index.html)

lighty
05-10-2007, 07:35 PM
@Lindemann

As I understand Tesla's writings in order to get the maximum efficiency of coils for producing the greatest amount of radiant energy charge (or rather dielectric charge) one has to observe several rules:

1. The mass of material of primary and secondary has to be equal as precisely as possible.
2. The surface area of primary and secondary should also be matched.
3. The length of the secondary conductor should be as close to 1/4 wavelength of the fundamental frequency of the system.
4. The inductance should be as high as possible while the impedance should be as low as possible.

Of course I oversimplified things in order not to complicate things too much and points 1-3 are rather straightforward but point 4 is what bothers me. In my mind the higher the inductance the higher the impedance of the system. Of course impedance varies in regard to the resonant frequency but all in all Tesla was pretty much determined about the statement about keeping the impedance as low as possible while raising the inductance. Impedance is definitely lowered while using Litz type conductor, flat strips of conductor or conductive tubes- anything to maximize surface area. I guess this is not too far from truth but I was wondering- is there some other technical aspect to achieving the point 4. that I'm missing altogether? I have a nagging feeling there is more to it. What's your take on it?



TIA

lighty

Peter Lindemann
05-11-2007, 07:29 PM
@Lindemann

As I understand Tesla's writings in order to get the maximum efficiency of coils for producing the greatest amount of radiant energy charge (or rather dielectric charge) one has to observe several rules:

1. The mass of material of primary and secondary has to be equal as precisely as possible.
2. The surface area of primary and secondary should also be matched.
3. The length of the secondary conductor should be as close to 1/4 wavelength of the fundamental frequency of the system.
4. The inductance should be as high as possible while the impedance should be as low as possible.

Of course I oversimplified things in order not to complicate things too much and points 1-3 are rather straightforward but point 4 is what bothers me. In my mind the higher the inductance the higher the impedance of the system. Of course impedance varies in regard to the resonant frequency but all in all Tesla was pretty much determined about the statement about keeping the impedance as low as possible while raising the inductance. Impedance is definitely lowered while using Litz type conductor, flat strips of conductor or conductive tubes- anything to maximize surface area. I guess this is not too far from truth but I was wondering- is there some other technical aspect to achieving the point 4. that I'm missing altogether? I have a nagging feeling there is more to it. What's your take on it?

TIA

lighty

Lighty,

Your questions are about Radiant Energy, but this is a forum about John Bedini's Capacitive Discharge Battery Chargers.

The short answer to your questions is that you have a number of similar things confused with each other, and only a detailed answer could straighten all of it out. My DVD lecture Tesla's Radiant Energy clears up all of your questions.

Peter

Aaron
05-11-2007, 08:44 PM
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/473-radiant-energy.html

lighty
05-12-2007, 02:36 AM
So let's take this radiant energy discussion over here http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/473-radiant-energy.html#post2241

BTW- thx Aaron for starting a new more appropriate thread.:thumbsup:

Aaron
11-08-2007, 06:14 AM
Here is a new vid:
YouTube - Bedini Negative Energy SG capacitor discharge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPR2GPfBQ-s)

Shows the tape motor SSG charging a cap bank and
discharging to batt utilizing negative potential side.

ren
11-08-2007, 06:36 AM
aaron, I am interested in the cap discharge circuit but I have a few questions.

Firstly you mentioned that your third winding that goes via FWBR to cap is wound in reverse. I saw this on one of Johns notes but it didnt sink in until I looked at it again the other day. Do you have any theories as to why this third winding is in opposition? Have you tried a regular trifilar to see if there is much difference? And is the winding wound with the other two or ontop? Trying to visualise the winding method and if it is with the other two Im thinking I will have to get the missus to help wind one:)

And secondly, I am trying to get my head around the scr. My understanding is that it is similar to a transistor? Do I trigger the scr to close the circuit much the same way in which I trigger the transistor to fire? Since I am still learining electronics and 555's are a little out of my league at the moment I would have to do this with a timing wheel I assume.

Aaron
11-08-2007, 07:39 AM
Hi Ren,

The bigger coils I used are trifilar with the trigger and power wound first in the correct direction. Then on top of that, I wound the 3rd wire in reverse. Actually, I believe John's intended way was to wind all 3 at the same time in the same direction.

It was my misunderstanding and the dot at the bottom showed it was out of phase as in catching the collapse. However, I have seen amazing results doing it my way. If they were wound the same, I'm sure there would be a difference but not sure what.

I don't know all the technical differences between an scr, transistor, etc... all I know is that there is an input and output and the connection is made when a base/gate/trigger receives power. Also, there are differences in switching times, which can be identified on spec sheets...faster the better it seems. SCR seems to be more like a diode with a trigger.

Of course there is the inverse...input and output connection is there unless the trigger receives power to turn off the connection as in a PNP transistor.

I think for practical purposes mechanical/analog is best. You can always cut a piece of copper but you can't always have a 555 at your disposal if the entire electronics industry disappears.

I think you'd have no problem with the 555 circuits. As long as you just connect all the right connections together you got it.

ren
11-08-2007, 08:02 AM
Interesting. Thanks Aaron for your prompt response. It seems to me that the coils in the EFTV part 2 (the ones on the capacitor bank monopole with timing wheel) are rather large. As in much larger than 900 - 1000 turns. Perhaps this is because they are wound with the last winding on top? Perhaps they are just plain old BIG coils, and I should stop drooling.

Interesting to note you achieved excellent results, I believe that a winding ontop of another is similar to a transformer? Did you measure your wire into 3 equal lengths? Because if the third was wound ontop of a larger diameter then counting turns would result in a much larger length for the final winding, no?


I see what your saying about the scr. Its like a one way gate waiting for someone to open the latch. I think I will try a timing wheel first, theres much to learn even there, and then in time I will move on to a timed circuit. So much to learn!

Thanks again for your insight and advice.

S

Aaron
11-08-2007, 08:34 AM
yes, with 3rd wire on top, it would be longer. I just counted turns. One coil was 1000 turns each wire and the 2nd bigger one I did was 2000 turns... I counted each and every excruciating turn! lol

John B doesn't count the turns...rolls out the length...twists them all together and winds on spools.

ren
11-08-2007, 09:49 AM
lol, I feel your pain there mate. Although counting the turns on my coil was preferable to twisting the 3 wires together.

I have seen a little coil winder someone made with a pedometer hooked up so a magnet triggered it every revolution. Made alot of sense to me, AFTER I finished winding!


Another question back on topic .(getting sick of them yet?:D ) With cap dumping into a battery, what is the desirable voltage level in the cap for say a 12 v battery? Obviously you dont want it at 300000 volts or anything, but is double the voltage of the charge battery (i.e. 24v in this instance) beneficial? Or is that going to be dangerous? I have seen some people suggest this, I note that JB only filled his caps up to about 16v.

Is this voltage regulated by capacitor sizing or is the discharge into the charge source timed so that the caps cannot increase over this amount?

Aaron
11-08-2007, 07:52 PM
Discharge the cap at about 2 volts over what is in the battery. You could do a few more volts over with no problem.

The if you reduce the capacitance (uf's), the volts will climb higher faster. But even so, you can make it trigger whenever you want with mechanical switch. With 555 circuit, you would have to adjust discharge frequency based on how often the cap gets to about 2 volts over the batt for whatever particular setup.

lighty
11-08-2007, 08:32 PM
I always thought that Bedini dischargers were set to release at least several tens of volts higher voltage than the battery voltage?

Jetijs
11-08-2007, 08:36 PM
In the dvd I saw him (Mr. Bedini) using those huge electrolytic capacitors with one of the models with mechanical comutator. These capacitors looked like those used for car audio systems. They are rated 1-3 farads and 24V max. If I recall it correctly, he used two of them in series. So we can assume he never went over the 48V at least with that small model.

ren
11-08-2007, 08:46 PM
jet if its the same one Im thinking of he puts the mulitmeter on the caps. One of them fills fast to 16 v and the other one was a little slower but still @ 16 v. This is the monopole that has a large coil either side of a vertically rotating acrylic rotor. There is an aluminum timing wheel off to the side which dumps the charge every second or so into the batteries. I believe it is the one triggered by a hall switch?

CaptainScat
11-08-2007, 08:52 PM
how does the neon bulb switch work? i have seen the 555/opto schematic and the mechanical pulley/contact switch, but never heard of a neon bulb switch. i am curious

Ewhaz
11-08-2007, 08:57 PM
Basically instead of using the optocoupler to trigger the SCR they use a neon bulb instead. As the cap reaches enough charge to jump the gap in the bulb, it triggers the SCR. The bulb acts as a spark gap.

lighty
11-08-2007, 09:06 PM
Basically instead of using the optocoupler to trigger the SCR they use a neon bulb instead. As the cap reaches enough charge to jump the gap in the bulb, it triggers the SCR. The bulb acts as a spark gap.

Indeed, and AFAIK the neon bulb conducts at about 100V and over. That's why I think the discharge voltage is higher.

CaptainScat
11-08-2007, 09:12 PM
thanks guys for the quick response, so no 555 is needed in this setup either?
the local surplus store here has a half dozen or so big caps like the ones in aaron's video, think i might have to go shopping today :thumbsup:

Jetijs
11-08-2007, 09:22 PM
I tried the neon bulb triggering once. It went well, but after a while the neon bulb became dimmer, I could see that the inner surface of the bulb became dark as if the bulb has blacken with somke from the inside. Then I stopped this test.

Aaron
11-08-2007, 10:10 PM
Hi all,

You can certainly use higher voltage discharges if you want.

I've done up to 90v from caps triggered by neon bulb triggering a scr.
If voltage is too high with not enough current..example...I was using a
600v cap .1 or .01 uf...so it fills up fast...at high frequency discharge of
voltage like that...it will make the batts rise in voltage, but won't power
much...it is electrostatic voltage charge.

You need at least the bare minimum amount of current to get the lead
ions moving in charging mode to my understanding.

Those caps in the vid are 30,000 60volts...made by Aerovox or something.
Anyway, I got those from ebay about 6 years ago or so for about $5 each.

A neon/scr circuit can replace an entire 555 circuit but again, if the trigger
voltage is high and not enough capacitance to give a good burst, it will be
a very fluffy charge.

If capacitance is too high to get the voltage rise in the caps that you want, then the discharge frequency might be too slow and again, this won't charge a battery very well. I used a bike wheel motor with the 2000 turn trifilar charging 180,000uf to about 2-3 volts over the battery and triggered by mechanical switch on pully and it took about 2 seconds to get to a few volts above the battery...and that works fine as long as the capacitance seems to be high enough. On that example for example, I would charge the batt like a 12v 7ah gel cell for 1-2 hours then I would turn off the circuit. The voltage would continue to climb and climb for up to an hour with no additional input. According to Bearden, that is the momentum of the lead ions still moving and that may or may not be accurate. Either way, the effect is very real.

Mario
11-09-2007, 12:07 AM
Hi Aaron,

thanks for the info. I was wondering, you said you used these hi capacitance caps rated for 60 V, but even if you discharge them at say 16V they still get hit by a few hundred volts from the coil. Isn't this bad for them? Does John do the same?

best regards,

Mario

Aaron
11-09-2007, 02:26 AM
Hi Mario,

These caps seem pretty hardy and I haven't had any perceivable problems with them. John has used caps around the same voltages I think and with quite a bit higher capacitance.

splocal
12-08-2007, 09:40 PM
Been trying to get in for weeks to post but had some strange problem that also strangly corrected itself.:thinking: very strange! anyways I have been reading many of the discussions regarding the bedini motors here and thanks to all of you especially you aron for the simplified SG schematic I have succesfully replicated my first SG single coil. Well I havent yet tuned my SG but was thinking of using the cap circuit which was given in the free energy book by John. Or maybe I need to master my first creation before moving on.n What do you think? :cheers:

ren
12-09-2007, 11:07 AM
welcome. I would recommend replicating a ssg circuit and studying its charging capabilities on some new batteries to get some experience. If you get a feel for the basics then you will have a better understanding of the more advanced setups and are less likely to make mistakes. If unlike me, you're an electrical genius:D then dive right in! I have already learnt so much from the ssg circuit, and it is proving to be a stable platform from which to advance from.

Good luck!:cheers:

terence123
12-11-2007, 04:27 AM
Hi All. I'm running a 555 on my circuit. On my scope I see the signal over the cap rise to 120V (4.7 micro-farad). The voltage over the battery (4Ah) during charge rises to 16V.

question: when you people report about the voltage over the cap, do you use an oscilloscope or DVM (or analog meter)? And if DVM, (digital volt meter), is it true rms?

I'm confused now, because Aaron saying that it is good just to charge 2V over the battery voltage...

Aaron
12-11-2007, 05:54 AM
2V over the battery is just what John told me to start with and that was 6-7 years ago. It is still a good recommendation I believe especially if you're using high capacitance discharges. I was doing 6 caps at 33,000 uf's each.

ren
12-11-2007, 07:40 AM
It seems to me that there are two ways to cap dump into the battery. On one side there is a high voltage(high potential) but low current hence a 500-600v cap @ 3.3 uf or such. Then I have seen other setups, like Johns in EFTV2 and Aarons video which have a minimum voltage (usually 2 or three volts over source) but a large current capacity, 100,000 uf plus, maybe even Farads. Id be interested to see if anyone has experimented with both as I am hesitant to spend big bucks on large capacitors if a small one but larger potential will achieve the same result.

terence123
12-11-2007, 09:24 AM
so this 2V over battery-voltage, is measured with dvm straight on the battery poles during charging?

splocal
12-11-2007, 02:59 PM
welcome. I would recommend replicating a ssg circuit and studying its charging capabilities on some new batteries to get some experience. If you get a feel for the basics then you will have a better understanding of the more advanced setups and are less likely to make mistakes. If unlike me, you're an electrical genius:D then dive right in! I have already learnt so much from the ssg circuit, and it is proving to be a stable platform from which to advance from.

Good luck!:cheers:

Thanx for the advice Ren, definatly not an electrical genius, I will keep charging, and documenting. I know their is more to learn then what is obvious, Just get anxious sometimes. Need to walk befor I run though.:thumbsup:

ren
12-11-2007, 09:28 PM
thats the spirit splocal. I know how you feel. A part of me is yelling out to wind ten huge coils and make a 20ft, half ton rotor! Maybe its a good thing that I cant afford that kind of wire at the moment. :)

There are many different variations you can attempt too. I got a little window motor up and running on the Bedini/Cole circuit the other day, which was rather satisfying. The circuit is a little more complex and it took me a few go's to get it. You can have a few projects on the side, and perhaps start collecting things for a cap pulser setup and constructing bit by bit. The best work I've done so far, is the work I have forced myself to be patient with.

Aaron
12-12-2007, 05:58 AM
The 2 v over battery from the caps is a direct reading attached to the capacitors so I would have to say it is very accurate. Capacitors take out a lot of the pulsing questionability I believe.

I have used high voltage caps with low capacitance as low as 1uf and even as low as 0.1uf and 0.01uf. With these, yes the battery voltage goes up but it is TOOOOOO radiant meaning not enough current is moving the lead ions and it becomes just a fluffy electrostatic charge and not a real charge. Even though we are wanting to charge with voltage potential, there is still a voltage-potential:current ratio that we want to be idea. Too must potential and not enough current is bad...too much current and it is just a hot charge. We want the bare minimum amount of current to get the battery in real charging mode and that doesn't happen if using super low capacitance and high voltage (from my personal hands on experience).

splocal
01-10-2008, 08:55 PM
So how would you be able to trigger a capacitor to discharge using a neon bulb? If your cap is only 2V above you 12V batt so lets say 15V cap cause I cant find a 14V one. But your neon bulb is rated at 60V-120V wouldn’t your cap just get real hot because it would never get up to the voltage required to jump the gap in the bulb :thinking: essentially destroying your cap! And whats the purpose of the SCR is the SCR going to the batt or is it on the SGG side? Iam not as electronically smart as much as most of you. An SCR is basically a diode with a set voltage trigger right? So would that be placed just before the bulb to prevent any Voltage form reversing back to the cap. Iam looking at purchasing a 180000 uf 15V cap but not sure how to oscillate it with the neon bulb any help appreciated! :cheers:

Ewhaz
01-13-2008, 02:43 AM
I just got batteries to test my self oscilating circuit with but something strange happened.

After about 15 mins or so my capacitor began to overheat on the charging side. It's a 450v 3.3 uf capacitor so it should be set properly and be well within range for the unit. I'm using a Neon bulb to trigger the scr so the voltage never gets much above 55 volts in the cap.

Any one have any idea how to keep this from happening?

Jetijs
01-13-2008, 02:54 AM
Ewhaz, I don't know why your capacitor is behaving like this, but I also have a question that someone hopefully can answer. I am going to try the cap pulser setup, but instead a scr or neon I want to use a solid state relay, driven by a 555 timer. The relay is rated for switching up to 250V and 60A. What do you think about this?

elias
01-13-2008, 07:35 AM
Ewhaz, I don't know why your capacitor is behaving like this, but I also have a question that someone hopefully can answer. I am going to try the cap pulser setup, but instead a scr or neon I want to use a solid state relay, driven by a 555 timer. The relay is rated for switching up to 250V and 60A. What do you think about this?

Yes, I thought of doing this too. Relays can make much better contacts and may produce better charging effects. Please tell us if you get better results.

Aaron
01-13-2008, 05:09 PM
So how would you be able to trigger a capacitor to discharge using a neon bulb? If your cap is only 2V above you 12V batt so lets say 15V cap cause I cant find a 14V one. But your neon bulb is rated at 60V-120V wouldn’t your cap just get real hot because it would never get up to the voltage required to jump the gap in the bulb :thinking: essentially destroying your cap! And whats the purpose of the SCR is the SCR going to the batt or is it on the SGG side? Iam not as electronically smart as much as most of you. An SCR is basically a diode with a set voltage trigger right? So would that be placed just before the bulb to prevent any Voltage form reversing back to the cap. Iam looking at purchasing a 180000 uf 15V cap but not sure how to oscillate it with the neon bulb any help appreciated! :cheers:

If that question was for me, anytime I discharged only a few volts above the battery, it was using 60v caps and each cap was 30,000uf. I had about 6 of them in parallel for about 180,000uf. The discharge for this setup was by mechanical pulley triggering a copper sheet switch that I made. This is the setup that allowed my charging batteries continue to charge/climb for up to an hour after there was no more input from the caps. This makes for a good strong charge.

The only time I used a neon bulb to discharge was on very, very low capacitance caps like 1uf, 0.1uf, 0.01uf and the caps were like 600volts. The voltages on this low of capacitance rose to the neon trigger voltage pretty easy. This setup was charging batts with too much radiant...not enough current to really get the batteries in true charging mode. The voltage climbs but it is really a fluffy electrostatic charge.

I never had capacitors get hot in either situation.

Ewhaz
01-13-2008, 10:44 PM
Well, the unit is switching at like 2khz at least so maybe it's just a matter of the frequency. As I said the cap is holding at 55 to 60V with this setup.

The 555 timer set up seems it would work closer to 14hz.. so thats a HUGE difference.

But there is one thing I noticed however. Despite the fact the Cap is holding at 55v the battery still only shows maybe a volt or two above charge. I'm sure the internal impedance of the battery might have something to do with this.

splocal
01-13-2008, 11:00 PM
If that question was for me, anytime I discharged only a few volts above the battery, it was using 60v caps and each cap was 30,000uf. I had about 6 of them in parallel for about 180,000uf.

I was hoping anyone with experience would respond so thank you Aaron. I know you have been involved with this work for some time! That is great news maybe I miss read your previous post I thought it was one cap at 180000 uf. 30000 uf caps are much easier to find. I have noticed that even with out the caps I sometimes have received a "fluffy" charge. voltage looks good but battery load is weak. Maybe I need to tune my SG better, I am definatly going to try the caps thanx again!:cheers:

Aaron
01-13-2008, 11:56 PM
I found most of these 30,000 uf caps on ebay. I paid about $6 each. If you want to get really high capacitance caps, you can probably find them at car stereo shops, they might be kind of spendy. Probably will save quite a bit just paralleling some 30k uf's.

elias
01-14-2008, 08:29 AM
I bought about ten 16v, 10,000uF rubycon capacitors while paying about 3$ for all of them. This is a cheap option too, if high voltage capacitors are not required.

splocal
01-15-2008, 11:58 AM
Thanx for the tips :thumbsup: That is much cheaper than the 30$ caps i saw. thanx again!

Ewhaz
01-17-2008, 08:59 PM
Man this transistor must be in short supply around the world! Hardly ANY one carries it and they are either charging too much or out of stock! The company I ordered mine from have had my order on back order for over 2 months!

Does any one know where I can get this 2N3584 transistor from? It's like the Very last piece I'm waiting on in order to finish my charger! Thanks in advance.

Alternative: Any compatible transistors that can be used instead of this one, preferably one that is more available?

ren
01-18-2008, 01:41 AM
Mouser Electronics - Electronic Component Distributor (http://www.mouser.com)

has them in stock. Or google semiconductor supplies, there are a heap of online sites that will offer postage options.

Ewhaz
01-29-2008, 09:01 AM
I'm going to repost my question here about the batteries, due to the fact that this circuit is not the SSG but rather the self oscilatting circuit with the capacitive discharge.

I spent the day running my system the other day, a total of 12 hours overall. Right off the bat the battery jumped to 13.25 v within 30 mins and then from there simply steadily charged till it got to about 13.97v

The power battery started at 12.66v and dropped to 12.26v for a total drop of .4 v. The charging battery went from 13.25v to 13.97v for a total gain of .72v

Now admittedly the batteries were new, and I didn't discharge the first battery before I put it on the system, so the readings are probably anomalous.

When I swap the batteries, I need to dishcarge the rest of the power battery before I can charge it, I'm assuming that discharging it to 12v is what I'm looking for before it's ready for charging again?

Since I didn't get over the 13.97 volts the other night, I hooked up my charger again.. this time the voltage jumped from 13.45v at the start and shot strait up to 15 volts. I don't want to overcharge or damage the battery so I'm assuming thats where I want to stop?

Reading some of the posts at pewski, there was a message from Bedini or bearden, they mentioned that what would happen is that the battery would peak and then drop slightly after it had been conditioned, basically achieving a steady platue of charging after that, slightly less than the peak. The battery reaching 15 volts so early seems unusual, how long should it take a battery to become conditioned in on this circuit?

Ewhaz
02-03-2008, 04:53 AM
Drat.. I was using my charger, wondering why it was taking quite so long to charge.. Well I found out my circuit wasn't triggering properly. I tracked it down to the 555 and replaced it (damn glad I ordered extra) and now it seems to be oscillating properly. Now when the unit runs it has a chirping sound rather than the mosquito buzz. Hopefully It's working now. I'm having a hard time determining if the optocoupler is triggering properly but I do believe it's working for the simple fact that the coil is chirping. From previous experiments while I was assembling this thing, I know it would change pitch when the battery was hooked up on the charging side. If there weren't any connected, it would simply arc through the neon bulb I have there. The neon bulb now flashes, so I'm assuming this means the circuit is being interrupted between the battery and the capacitor.

Unfortunately my capacitors are overheating again, ARG! it's not as bad as it was before but definitely very warm to the touch.. I don't know why it's doing that though, I thought previously it was because the frequency is too high, now its at the right frequency but it's getting way too hot still. There's no such thing as a capacitor with a heat sink.

Update:

I Did a little research on temperature ranges for capacitors. It seems that the lowest I've seen them rated at is about 85 C (Or about 185F) and 105c is about the highest.

The pain threshold is between 54 to 55 C (About 130 F) so as long as it stays cool enough to touch without getting burned, the capacitor should be within it's operational range (Though with some loss to lifetime). However, its always better to be safe than sorry, always use caution when dealing with capacitors as they can explode.

Aaron
02-13-2008, 07:22 PM
Dual Battery Charger

Here is the original schematic from about 7 years ago or so

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/dualbatt.jpg

Here is one my friend and I built virtually identical to every single spec on the drawing...they way John recommends starting out. Except we had the pulley a little bigger to let the caps get higher. It was the first time I think I ever tried to charge a battery with the SG's. You can see a folded piece of lead sheet on the left...that is wrapped around the battery I was charging in case it blew up.

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/bedini-sg-dual-battery-charger.jpg

Aaron
02-13-2008, 07:33 PM
Here was my original bicycle wheel setup:

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/bedini-sg-bicycle-wheel-dual-battery-charger.jpg

I showed a zoom in pic at top left of my mechanical switch.... leads are alligator clips holding thin strips of copper sticking up. The pulley has another strip of copper taped to it and bent just right so that when it comes around counterclockwise, it will gently and evenly scrape both strips making the connection discharging the caps to the charging battery. I know a few people copied my switch and found that it worked great. When I used bigger batts and large cap banks, the exact switch worked perfectly. This is the discharge switch where I could charge for a while, turn everything off and the batt(s) would continue to charge for up to an hour with no more input.

Ewhaz
02-22-2008, 08:42 PM
I've been running my system for a few weeks now, and its taking an amazingly long time to charge these batteries.

I'm using two 8AH batteries, and its taking it like 3 days to get them up .6 v.. Is there anything I'm doing wrong?

Aaron
02-22-2008, 08:54 PM
Ewhaz, with my 2000 turn trifilar on the bicycle wheel, charging caps with mechanical switch discharge, a few hours they would have a really good strong charge.

What are the coil and components you're using? Magnets, rotor size, caps you're charging. Your doing discharge with a 555 circuit? What voltage are caps before you discharge?

Aaron
02-22-2008, 08:58 PM
If the battery is not damaged and is really in good shape, I would take it off the SG, charge it to 14+ with a normal hot charger until good and full. Then drain it with a resistive load down to 12, do that a couple times. Then as soon as it is drained, then hook it to the sg charger.

The battery just may need to be reformed.

Ewhaz
02-22-2008, 09:15 PM
I'm using the 555/scr set up to discharge my caps into my batteries. The hard part about this is I'm still waiting for the proper caps to use for this circuit, as it's designed, but they are still on their way in from an oversea EBAY purchase. I went and cannibalized some disposable camera's to get the caps from them, and since they are so large they take longer to charge to any decent voltage, I'm only reading about 22 to 23 volts across them, where ass the other caps where getting into the 150v range. I've already hardwired my 555 circuit so I can't easily change the timing to let the caps charge higher.

I was also testing to see if dumping the coil directly into the battery (after the rectifier of course) would change the charging. It hasn't seemed to make any difference. I've got two more batteries on the way, I'll charge them up and discharge them like you suggested to start fresh when I finish getting all my componants.

I did want to ask about discharging the batteries. I have been using small 14v lamps wired in series to discharge the batteries, they were rated at .2 amps, which I figured would give me .8 ams overall for a C20 rating (with the two 8ah batteries in parallel) But I didn't get any decent discharge until I put two of the lamps in parallel. I can't seem to measure amps on my meter, it just cuts off anything behind it so I don't get any idea of the amp usage, only the amps available. How can I calculate the exact load for discharging these batteries at a C20 rating.

Aaron
02-22-2008, 10:06 PM
The best results I've had is with LARGE capacitance banks and only charging 2-3 volts above the battery voltage....around 14-16 or so. What is the largest capacitance you can come up with with the caps you have? You can probably find some 33,000 uf 60v's on ebay pretty cheap. I found some years ago on ebay for about $5 each.

With too high of voltage pulsing too quick, there isn't enough current to get the batts in real charging mode.

Ewhaz
02-23-2008, 01:28 AM
Right now, the caps I have on hand are some 450v 3.3 uf caps and two 330v 80uf caps.

So your saying that as long as I'm getting about 2 to 4 volts over my topmost battery charge then I'm Ok?

Aaron
02-23-2008, 01:43 AM
With high capacitance impulses that is. The capacitance of the caps you're using seem too small. A couple hundred uf's at minimum is really good for the capacitive discharges at a couple volts above the batteries. Even 15-30k uf would help improve your results.

vallentin
09-11-2008, 02:44 PM
The best results I've had is with LARGE capacitance banks and only charging 2-3 volts above the battery voltage....around 14-16 or so. What is the largest capacitance you can come up with with the caps you have? You can probably find some 33,000 uf 60v's on ebay pretty cheap. I found some years ago on ebay for about $5 each.

With too high of voltage pulsing too quick, there isn't enough current to get the batts in real charging mode.

Hi Aaron. Howdy' guys and girls.
I have a 132.000 uF/100V capacitor bank (6x22.000uF). Really BIG cans. 3$ a piece from a bargain sale.
It takes about 5 seconds to charge them to 50V in parallel configuration. The thing is that I cannot dump them onto the battery when they are over 43V using the 555 cap pulser. I blowed my 2N3055 Darlington in a split second trying. Three times in a row. Stupid me!
It looks that really big amperage develops in the capacitor bank after the 43V area and I think I'm gonna try a 2SC5244 (30A/1600V) in order to go safe beyond that range. I don't mind the 5-7 second time gap. I just want to experiment the way it charges the battery at higher voltage & amps.

Now the question is: is there any way to protect those expensive trannies from overcurrent? Thermistors? Diodes? And how do I prevent SCR's self-latching? I tried one in the circuit but it stays on forever.

My 555 cap pulser is fully adjustable in terms of frequency and duty cycle and I have found that going with a smaller duty cycle (10-90% or 20-80%) nothing happens. The battery won't charge at all. Even by using higher voltage.
I got best results by now at 800ms ON / 1s OFF using all 6x22.000uF in series. The battery (12V/12A) gains a tenth of a Volt every 5 minutes or so.

Mr. Bedini was right again (look at the patent). Don't bother to build your cap pulser having adjustable duty cycle unless you want to use the same circuit for the solid state version. It's a waste of time. 50-50% or 40-60% duty cycle works the best for now.

Cheers.
Valentin

Aaron
09-11-2008, 06:15 PM
Hi Valentin,

I would dump the caps when they're only a few volts over the battery so probably 15-16v is all you need then you'll be able to charge them faster to that and dump once a sec or once every other sec. You'll get better results anyway.

You can use a transistor instead of a scr if you can't get the scr to turn off.
2SC3281 worked great for me.

ren
09-11-2008, 08:51 PM
Aarons right, and besides, 130k+ uF dumping @ nearly 4 times the chargings capacity could be a little dangerous, especially if your battery isnt up to scratch.

Like Aaron said, try a good transistor in there, Ive used a few different ones including the MLJ21194.

Ive been playing around with my trifilar charging 18000uF cap. The 555 is set to dump every 1-1/1/2 seconds which builds the voltage up in the caps to around 20v. Its too much still I think, I need some bigger caps. Thats a bargain. $3.00 a cap. GOLD.:cheers:

vallentin
09-11-2008, 08:55 PM
Thank you Aaron.
Already followed your previous post suggestion and my battery climbed from 12,37V to 12,58 within an hour. Steady, not fluffy charge. It works great this way. I dump it with 20V every second or so. To make a difference, for the next charge I will use 18V.

As for the transistors, I'm already tired of changing them so I stopped experimentig with higher voltage& current.

I got rid of the SCR the very first minute of running and made a quad Darlington from the 6N138 opto-Darlington, BD243C and 2N3055 + 870ohm base to emitter resistors. That's what I had around and it works pretty well. With only one condition. Not to go over 42-43V or the Darlington goes puffff (the 2N3055) because the current from the capacitor bank is way higher than this transistor can handle.

Right now, I'm working on a new coil(s) for the solid-state version because my actual SSG behaves erratically. I managed to make it self-oscillate but as soon as I connect the capacitor (any) it stops from oscillating for good.
And it won't start with the capacitor or battery connected. Any ideas why?
Probably because the core is made from a soft iron bar and not welding rods? Dunno'.

Thank you again!
Valentin

vallentin
09-11-2008, 09:04 PM
Aarons right, and besides, 130k+ uF dumping @ nearly 4 times the chargings capacity could be a little dangerous, especially if your battery isnt up to scratch.

Like Aaron said, try a good transistor in there, Ive used a few different ones including the MLJ21194.

Ive been playing around with my trifilar charging 18000uF cap. The 555 is set to dump every 1-1/1/2 seconds which builds the voltage up in the caps to around 20v. Its too much still I think, I need some bigger caps. Thats a bargain. $3.00 a cap. GOLD.:cheers:

Thank you Ren. I've already learned my lesson with the cost of three 2N's.
As for the caps, they have a chinese mark engraved in gold on top of them. But they really kick bottoms! And I don't care that they're chinese made. :thumbsup: They're up to the job.

Valentin

Aaron
09-11-2008, 09:29 PM
If you charge a battery with this method for an hour, you may be able to turn it off, watch the voltage in the charging batt and see it climb by itself for a while. It 'may' happen with this type of discharge but a mechanical switch might be necessary to see that effect.

vallentin
09-11-2008, 10:56 PM
If you charge a battery with this method for an hour, you may be able to turn it off, watch the voltage in the charging batt and see it climb by itself for a while. It 'may' happen with this type of discharge but a mechanical switch might be necessary to see that effect.

Because of the spark. That's where the radiant efect appears. Right?

Aaron
09-11-2008, 11:02 PM
There may be something to the spark but a mechanical switch has the lowest loss of any switch to my understanding. I have always had the best results with mechanical switches.

vallentin
09-12-2008, 10:22 AM
There may be something to the spark but a mechanical switch has the lowest loss of any switch to my understanding. I have always had the best results with mechanical switches.

Then I will try an automotive lights relay. With a little adaptation to the cap pulser to drive it. :) I'll see what difference comes from this. Thanks for the ideea. Can't do it directly with the SG because the wheel is too little and has no use for the timing.

As for the solid state, do you have any ideea why it stops oscillating every time I connect a cap or battery? Can't start the self-oscillation otherwise. As soon as I have a load, nothing happens. I tried a range from 1-100K for the base resistor. Nothing! :confused:
I have a 50K pot in series with a 1K pot and a 10 ohm pot. For fine tuning. Without a load, oscillation starts at 3 Kohm.

vallentin
02-12-2009, 12:29 AM
Hi guys.
Yesterday I tried the following:
http://www.soundpro.ro/documents/images/DSC00044.jpg

A a simplified version of the Bedini scalar battery charger (first was a self latching configuration of the relay). Too lazy to hook it to the cap pulser at that time.

It does not work according to my schematic. The measured voltage on the load (small motor) terminals is around 6V, not to mention the battery running down...

Also driving the relay with the cap pulser made no difference except for changing the frequency. The caps (68uF/400V) are charging to 12V in parallel config, then drop to 6V in series. I don't understand why.
I saw this strange effect by slowing the cap pulser.

To test it, I tried the same thing by replacing the battery with an another 68uF/400v capacitor (charged at 12V), without a load. It runs down rapidly instead of charging up. I know I made THE mistake. Forgot about the diodes...

Here's an update to what I have in mind to test this week-end if I manage to find a 4PDT relay.
http://www.soundpro.ro/documents/images/Scalar_battery_charger.JPG

If everything goes right, the next step will be replacing the battery and capacitors with 22000uf/100V capacitors and bigger voltage load + zenner diodes to keep everything at a certain level.
Then, :cheers: :blowout: :dance:
And then:
http://www.soundpro.ro/documents/images/Tesla_Switch.JPG
:)

nafanja
05-16-2011, 10:14 AM
I am interesting to know the time for discharge.

I see that is a 1 second or 2 seconds, what is best time for discharge?

eastcoasttinker
08-30-2011, 04:12 AM
Can someone post a cap pulser that doesn't use a 555 or h11d1. I'm not good with ic-s and want to do it old style. Any links, sites, or post would be great.

Thanks

Web000x
08-31-2011, 01:38 AM
Here this should help you. Focus on the scr/cap/battery arrangement. It is a very versatile setup.

The cap dumps as soon as the diode going from the anode to the gate of the SCR starts conducting. If you want it to dump at higher voltages just keep putting more diodes/zener's/LEDs in series with the A to G diode until you get the level you want.

http://img186.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc71&image=95027_caps5scr_122_71lo.JPG

Dave

boguslaw
08-31-2011, 08:20 AM
Here this should help you. Focus on the scr/cap/battery arrangement. It is a very versatile setup.

The cap dumps as soon as the diode going from the anode to the gate of the SCR starts conducting. If you want it to dump at higher voltages just keep putting more diodes/zener's/LEDs in series with the A to G diode until you get the level you want.

http://img186.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc71&image=95027_caps5scr_122_71lo.JPG

Dave

Very nice circuit ! Could you explain how to choose diode to obtain required voltage trigger ? For example I want it to protect my solar charging device. I plan big joule thief connected to small solar panel charging 10000uF 25V capacitor. I'd like capacitor to discharge into 12V small lead acid battery (7Ah) every time it reaches 24V.How to get it ?

Farmhand
08-31-2011, 09:01 AM
Hi Boguslaw, Maybe Dave will confirm this or add to it, I use these cap dischargers a lot.

To make it drop at 24 volts you just add the trigger/threshold voltage of the SCR (from datasheet) to the forward voltage drop (measured) of the regular diode or LED then add the required Zener to get to 12 volts so added to the 12 volts of the battery it will be 24 volts.

However the drop voltage will change slightly depending on the battery voltage.

The way the SCR is orientated in the negative line can be confusing.

Also I found that sometimes the SCR will not switch off and continues conducting (common problem), it should work quite well though with 10000uf and a joule thief.
I think it happens when the capacitor is too small or the source charging it is charging it to quickly to allow turn off. Or the capacitor takes too long to discharge.

I think this can be solved by using a triac in place of the SCR, the triac should turn off each dump, I think.

SCR's are fairly tough.

Cheers

geotron
08-31-2011, 10:01 AM
The purpose of a north pole motor seems as though it would benefit
from a certain modification where the efficiency of generating thrust
on the wheel would be offset by the use of a dual input facilitated
by sensor switches coupled onto capacitors.

When a primary capacitor is thrown into charging the power coil, its
energy transfers into the recovery coil and dumps into another capacitor
in parallel with many others. During the off pulse, one or two of them
would be thrown back to the primary while the rest are left to continue
absorbing energy from the magnetic interaction.

geotron
09-02-2011, 03:13 AM
Wouldn't using the recovery winding for charging up a standard 12V battery
charger circuit also be another valid way to utilize the energy being
produced by a N-Pole motor?

twinbeard
01-11-2012, 05:43 AM
Nice circuit. In the case of a Zener diode, one would reverse the polarity as compared to the rectifier in the schematic, correct?

Cheers,
Twinbeard.


The cap dumps as soon as the diode going from the anode to the gate of the SCR starts conducting. If you want it to dump at higher voltages just keep putting more diodes/zener's/LEDs in series with the A to G diode until you get the level you want.

http://img186.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc71&image=95027_caps5scr_122_71lo.JPG

Dave

minoly
01-12-2012, 04:18 AM
Nice circuit. In the case of a Zener diode, one would reverse the polarity as compared to the rectifier in the schematic, correct?

Cheers,
Twinbeard.

try this one.

totoalas
01-12-2012, 03:22 PM
try this one.

Hi Patrick,

Can a 60 W 18V dc Solar panel directly be connected in parallel with a 3300 uf 450 v cap going to a 6 coiler Bedini and out wit another 3300 uf 450 v parallel to the charge battery of 60 AH ????????

Also , in your video 7Ah charging 500 Ah batteries , how long did it take to top off the voltage in the batteries ????

thanks,:cheers:

totoalas

minoly
01-12-2012, 04:30 PM
Hi Patrick,

Can a 60 W 18V dc Solar panel directly be connected in parallel with a 3300 uf 450 v cap going to a 6 coiler Bedini and out wit another 3300 uf 450 v parallel to the charge battery of 60 AH ????????

Also , in your video 7Ah charging 500 Ah batteries , how long did it take to top off the voltage in the batteries ????

thanks,:cheers:

totoalas

Hi Totoalas,
I'm the last person you want to ask a conventional question, re solar to cap.

It's been a while, I thought I mentioned the time it took in the vid, if not, I think it was somewhere in the 3-4 hour range.
I hope your builds are coming along well,
Patrick

totoalas
01-14-2012, 07:55 AM
Hi Totoalas,
I'm the last person you want to ask a conventional question, re solar to cap.

It's been a while, I thought I mentioned the time it took in the vid, if not, I think it was somewhere in the 3-4 hour range.
I hope your builds are coming along well,
Patrick

Thanks Patrick:cheers:

totoalas

blackchisel97
01-14-2012, 10:02 AM
Hi Patrick,

Can a 60 W 18V dc Solar panel directly be connected in parallel with a 3300 uf 450 v cap going to a 6 coiler Bedini and out wit another 3300 uf 450 v parallel to the charge battery of 60 AH ????????

Also , in your video 7Ah charging 500 Ah batteries , how long did it take to top off the voltage in the batteries ????

thanks,:cheers:

totoalas

totoalas I would use higher capacitance, such as 20000uF and close to the operating voltage of your source (panel) - 25 - 40V max.

V

Guruji
01-15-2012, 12:43 PM
Hi guys did you find this cap discharge truly better?
What type of uf/voltage found best?
This is the capacitor in the scheamtic cause it's not clear looks like another battery?
Thanks

totoalas
01-15-2012, 02:06 PM
totoalas I would use higher capacitance, such as 20000uF and close to the operating voltage of your source (panel) - 25 - 40V max.

V

@Minoly
Thanks, 3 t o 4 hours still great will try to test my SSG 6 coiler , just placed my solar on the balcony but fog and whole day rain stopped me... the mono crystalline can also pick up up to 14 vdc pulsing on the charge controller from 9 am till 4 pm in this condition

@BlackCHISEL97
thanks for the cap size info m hope this woll speed up the charging process...

HAS ANYONE TRIED TO PUT A N S SERVER HD DISC DRIVE NEODYNE MAGNET ROTOR 11 INCHES IN DIA ON TOP OF THE CRT FERRITE CORE 6 COILER ??/

THANKS MATE:cheers:

totoalas

blackchisel97
01-15-2012, 07:05 PM
@Minoly
... just placed my solar on the balcony but fog and whole day rain stopped me...

totoalas

That's where I like to use inverted trigger SS SSG instead. It will start charging in low light, even on cloudy day. Less powerful but better than nothing at all.

:cheers:
Vtech

geotron
01-16-2012, 05:22 AM
Besides the vast storage capacity of a 12V Lead battery, it does not seem
apparent to me why these should be used as the source and destination of
electrical charge when building these motors.

With heavy capacitors in their place, it would seem this technology would
not require a reconditioning and restructuring of the storage medium, yes?

Then additionally, what about the alkaline energy storage cell developed by
Thomas Edison?

:peaceflag:

twinbeard
01-20-2012, 07:40 AM
try this one.

I did, in a form and fashion. See image for the circuit I wound up using. This charges a 12V 7AH like a madman.

Guruji
01-20-2012, 12:58 PM
I did, in a form and fashion. See image for the circuit I wound up using. This charges a 12V 7AH like a madman.

Thanks Twinbeard for sharing. Do you think if I use another SCR and zener will work too?
Thanks.

totoalas
01-20-2012, 02:07 PM
I did, in a form and fashion. See image for the circuit I wound up using. This charges a 12V 7AH like a madman.

Good job mate:thumbsup: May I know the input current and maybe try with a solar as well???


totoalas:cheers:

twinbeard
01-22-2012, 09:16 AM
Thanks Twinbeard for sharing. Do you think if I use another SCR and zener will work too?
Thanks.

Just watch your voltage and power dissipation ratings on the components you choose.
I may wind up updating that circuit... not sure until I put the scope on the cap pulser to see if it is dumping properly. From what I see on the multimeter, it looks like the SCR is getting stuck open. Perhaps a larger cap bank, more closely matched to the voltage I am working with...

Enjoy

twinbeard
01-22-2012, 09:19 AM
Good job mate:thumbsup: May I know the input current and maybe try with a solar as well???


totoalas:cheers:

Input current looks like about 200ma with the rheostat pegged at 500 ohms, 375ma at the tuning "sweetspot," and a little over an amp with the rheostat zeroed, so only 50 ohms to the base from the fixed resistor in that instance. The latter drives the fan FAST. The fan is rated with the factory circuit as drawing 2.3A @12V, btw.

Enjoy,
Twinbeard

Guruji
01-22-2012, 12:13 PM
Just watch your voltage and power dissipation ratings on the components you choose.
I may wind up updating that circuit... not sure until I put the scope on the cap pulser to see if it is dumping properly. From what I see on the multimeter, it looks like the SCR is getting stuck open. Perhaps a larger cap bank, more closely matched to the voltage I am working with...

Enjoy

This setup is giving negative and positive charge?
Zener Diode maybe should open at 18v to batteries what do yoy think?
Thanks

rescoalabama
01-23-2012, 04:14 AM
Bedini Cap Charger discussion. The chargers with with bridge to cap setup. Can be with mechanical pulley switch setup, 555 timer switch, neon bulb switch, etc... With rotor or self-oscillating.

I am new to this site but i like what i have been reading, i have been working on cordless battery charger using a capacitor charging circuit of mine which charges really fast, the voltage input from the cap is controlled by the switch speed of a 555 pulse timer. My question is there a way to split the charge voltage and direct some of it back into the storage devise with greater output
at the same time.

twinbeard
01-25-2012, 07:33 AM
This setup is giving negative and positive charge?
Zener Diode maybe should open at 18v to batteries what do yoy think?
Thanks

It looks to me that while some of the spike may discharge into the charge battery positive terminal, most of it is going into the cap, which then gets discharged across the charging battery.

Probably closer to 20V I think, as the SCR needs 1.7V to begin conducting by itself.

Any opinions on these caps... say 4 in series for .25F @20VDC?
PB Series, Supercapacitors, Low ESR, (http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/bussmann/electronics/products/powerstor_supercapacitors/cylindrical/pb_series_cylindrical.brands.powerstor.html)

Enjoy
Twinbeard

geotron
01-25-2012, 10:23 AM
How might this perform? The recovery capacitor voltage would
likely be around normal 16V battery charging level.

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb357/exiko/recovery-coil-pulser.gif

citfta
01-25-2012, 01:54 PM
Hi geotron,

My experience with that kind of circuit is not too good. What happened for me was when the cap got charged high enough to turn on the zener the zener just starts to turn on. This turns on the transistor but not fully on. The transistor conducts just enough to keep the cap at a level that just keeps the zener barely turned on and thus you reach a stable condition which is just charging the battery the same as without the pulsing circuit. I have been meaning to order some diacs. The diac has full on or full off kinda snap action. I think with a diac in series with the zener this would be a good circuit. I haven't tried that yet so I could be wrong about how well that would work.

Later,
Carroll

FRC
01-25-2012, 03:23 PM
In the dvd I saw him (Mr. Bedini) using those huge electrolytic capacitors with one of the models with mechanical comutator. These capacitors looked like those used for car audio systems. They are rated 1-3 farads and 24V max. If I recall it correctly, he used two of them in series. So we can assume he never went over the 48V at least with that small model.

I could have bought one of these 1 farad audio capacitors for $99.95 a couple
months back. Does anyone know if that is a good price for one of those ?

George

geotron
01-26-2012, 08:57 AM
Hi geotron,

My experience with that kind of circuit is not too good. What happened for me was when the cap got charged high enough to turn on the zener the zener just starts to turn on. This turns on the transistor but not fully on. The transistor conducts just enough to keep the cap at a level that just keeps the zener barely turned on and thus you reach a stable condition which is just charging the battery the same as without the pulsing circuit. I have been meaning to order some diacs. The diac has full on or full off kinda snap action. I think with a diac in series with the zener this would be a good circuit. I haven't tried that yet so I could be wrong about how well that would work.

Later,
Carroll

citfta,

In the past I've found much the same results as you've indicated with
using Schottky diodes, although what I've not found yet is how the transistor
or SCR would react when the potentiometer is such that it will only let through
sufficient current to turn on the Base or Gate when the Schottky diode is fully
open.

Perhaps the voltage of the charging capacitor would pass through the
potentiometer and meet with the Schottky until it is 90% open, and only
then would there be sufficient current to open the transistor. ??

Other than this, and the diac, there seems to be one other method
utilizing an op-amp.

[ The Schmitt Trigger (http://pcbheaven.com/wikipages/The_Schmitt_Trigger/) ]

[ Schmitt's Comparator Circuit (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/schmitt.html) ]

[ Google Search - Schmitt Trigger (https://www.google.com/search?q=Schmitt+trigger&hl=en&num=10&lr=&ft=i&cr=&safe=images) ]

twinbeard
01-26-2012, 04:09 PM
I could have bought one of these 1 farad audio capacitors for $99.95 a couple
months back. Does anyone know if that is a good price for one of those ?

George

That price is a little high.

twinbeard
02-01-2012, 12:50 AM
Hi All,

I took the opportunity to put the cap pulser circuit on a scope and watch for a while. I have found that the circuit, as diagrammed, works properly. I changed the cap value to 1000mF @30V. I also changed to a 12.1V zener. I may fool with that a bit more. It works pretty well, giving a stairstepped sawtooth wave across the cap, but only on a reasonably good battery. See attached scopeshot. A battery in bad shape gives a waveform that looks like ringing spikes that only vary by a volt or so.


Good battery:
http://solarnetone.org/cappluse.jpg

Not so good battery:
http://solarnetone.org/cappulse2.jpg

Notice in particular the voltage scale of the two traces... 5V/div vs .2V/div!



Enjoy,
Twinbeard

twinbeard
02-01-2012, 01:28 AM
Good job mate:thumbsup: May I know the input current and maybe try with a solar as well???


totoalas:cheers:

Hey Totalas,

Forgot to speak on the solar. All of this is running from solar. I have 640W of panels charging a 1600Ah @12V battery bank. There is a 1F 20V cap paralleled with the battery bank. My benches are wired with 12V busses, which I run all of my experimental work on.

So yes, it works well from solar:) I have another device I will be showing soon that is designed to be powered directly by a dedicated panel, eliminating the charge controller
and battery bank in between, and a Uni-Solar PVL-68 to power it. Way too much power for what the device draws, however, but the smallest in Uni-Solar's line of flexible thin film panels. Perhaps one of their roofing tiles would be appropriate...
In any case, the panel charges a big cap bank, which drives the device in the event of very low light conditions.

Enjoy,
Twinbeard

totoalas
02-02-2012, 04:57 PM
Hey Totalas,

Forgot to speak on the solar. All of this is running from solar. I have 640W of panels charging a 1600Ah @12V battery bank. There is a 1F 20V cap paralleled with the battery bank. My benches are wired with 12V busses, which I run all of my experimental work on.

So yes, it works well from solar:) I have another device I will be showing soon that is designed to be powered directly by a dedicated panel, eliminating the charge controller
and battery bank in between, and a Uni-Solar PVL-68 to power it. Way too much power for what the device draws, however, but the smallest in Uni-Solar's line of flexible thin film panels. Perhaps one of their roofing tiles would be appropriate...
In any case, the panel charges a big cap bank, which drives the device in the event of very low light conditions.

Enjoy,
Twinbeard

Thanks Twinbeard
Need all the devices I can build into my 12 v 7 ah battery ....for now ..until your next big one comes along lol

happy experimenting

totoalas

Guruji
02-02-2012, 08:20 PM
Hi All,

I took the opportunity to put the cap pulser circuit on a scope and watch for a while. I have found that the circuit, as diagrammed, works properly. I changed the cap value to 1000mF @30V. I also changed to a 12.1V zener. I may fool with that a bit more. It works pretty well, giving a stairstepped sawtooth wave across the cap, but only on a reasonably good battery. See attached scopeshot. A battery in bad shape gives a waveform that looks like ringing spikes that only vary by a volt or so.


Good battery:
http://solarnetone.org/cappluse.jpg

Not so good battery:
http://solarnetone.org/cappulse2.jpg

Notice in particular the voltage scale of the two traces... 5V/div vs .2V/div!



Enjoy,
Twinbeard

Which circuit are you refering to?

twinbeard
02-02-2012, 09:51 PM
Which circuit are you refering to?

I am referring to the scr/zener circuit I posted a schematic revision for in post #95 of this thread:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/367-bedini-capacitive-discharge-chargers-4.html#post176728

I am considering adding the LED to the circuit for visible dump indicator, while moving the voltage down a bit on the zener. Currently I am using two 2000 microfarad 15V caps in series, and a 12.1V zener. It seems about the minimum value for the circuit, based on the waveform. Increasing cap values will lower dump frequency, as well as the current dumped across the battery. I paralleled in 3250 microfarads more last night, which had the dump frequency at about 2Hz.

It makes me want to really fine tune this to highest frequency dump, and have the caps dump into the primary of a small exciter instead of a battery, and see what happens.

Enjoy,
Twinbeard

twinbeard
02-03-2012, 08:00 AM
Hi All,

I made a short video of the fan with the cap dumper circuit:
Cap Pulser Circuit - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R13iU6DjXAg)

Enjoy,
Twinbeard

Virus
09-16-2012, 03:06 PM
Hi guys

Just built a cap pulser, triggering the SCR with a neon light, the neon triggers the SCR once and then the SCR stays open,

I’m using a 1000uF flash cap 380v, dumping it to an old 150amp truck battery with 12.43v standing , cap charges in 1 sec, and neon discharges once and then stays open.

Any quick resolve for this? Will to get building a 555 timing circuit later.

Virus:thumbsup:

citfta
09-16-2012, 09:17 PM
Hi Virus,

What do you mean by "stays open"? Do you mean the SCR burns out and no longer works? Or do you mean the SCR turns on and won't turn off? I am not really trying to pick on you but the term open or stays open is misused a lot on this forum. People who actually work in electronics only talk about an electronic device being open when they mean it has burned out and is open inside. Think of the old knife switch you used to see in the movies. When the blade of the switch is up the switch is open. When you put the blade down you close the switch and complete the circuit. Electronic devices turn on and off, they do not open and close.

In your circuit if the SCR is staying on after first turning on it is probably because there is still current flowing from the cap into the battery. SCR's will not turn off if there is still current flowing through them. You have to design your circuit so the cap will discharge to the point where no current can flow into the battery in order for the SCR to turn off and wait for the neon to fire again. Unless you have a pretty slow charge rate on the cap it is very difficult to get it to work with only a neon and SCR. You might try increasing the size of your cap and see if that helps.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Virus
09-17-2012, 01:43 PM
Hi Carroll thanks for getting back to me and thank you for your time !

As you can see I am closed (don’t know), seems like you are open (can help) ! (got it !):rofl:

Sorry, I just tinker with electronics and not to snappy with all the terms etc. as you have noticed,

Yes, that is what is happening, the SCR stays open and I can see the battery volts still climbing after the first trigger, on 1 ste charging the cap it draws 1.8 amps, after the first trigger the amps drops back to 1.0 amp. and stays there.

I have tried a 3300uF cap takes a little bit longer to charge but the SCR still stays open after the first trigger.

I have 7 of those 3300uF caps, maybe I should hook them up in parallel? That will take longer to charge BUT don’t think that the SCR will handel the discharge?:confused:

Is it safe to assume that a 555 circuit to trigger the SCR in this case will still not close because of the current that is still flowing? If the 555 circuit closes the SCR, it will still stay open because of the current flow?

What device will close even thou there are still current flowing, think my coil is charging quite fast?

Thanks

Virus:D

Virus
09-17-2012, 02:29 PM
Hi me again

I tuned the system to 150 mA, takes about 4 seconds to charge the cap, the neon triggers the SCR, and the SCR still stays open, how can I get the SCR to close?

Virus

catrinisin
03-20-2013, 02:16 PM
Hi All,

I took the opportunity to put the cap pulser circuit on a scope and watch for a while. I have found that the circuit, as diagrammed, works properly. I changed the cap value to 1000mF @30V. I also changed to a 12.1V zener. I may fool with that a bit more. It works pretty well, giving a stairstepped sawtooth wave across the cap, but only on a reasonably good battery. See attached scopeshot. A battery in bad shape gives a waveform that looks like ringing spikes that only vary by a volt or so.


Good battery:
http://solarnetone.org/cappluse.jpg

Not so good battery:
http://solarnetone.org/cappulse2.jpg

Notice in particular the voltage scale of the two traces... 5V/div vs .2V/div!



Enjoy,
Twinbeard

Hi Twinbeard,

I am curious about the not so good battery producing such a different result with the pulse circuit. Is this because most of the spike is being absorbed by the battery or what? Do your neons fire when this is going on? (I've seen my neons fire when a not so good battery is connected. I think because the battery isn't capable of absorbing the spike since it is bad.)

Thanks,
Chris

cdjambov
06-21-2016, 02:28 PM
Hello everyone

Can someone pls post circuit of the cap dump with relay instead of scr ?

I have tried several times with different way of connecting the relay .. but seems I am missing something.

Thanks.

Aaron
06-21-2016, 06:20 PM
Hello everyone

Can someone pls post circuit of the cap dump with relay instead of scr ?

I have tried several times with different way of connecting the relay .. but seems I am missing something.

Thanks.

This isn't the full schematic but this could accomplish it - this was for cap dump to an ignition coil:

http://www.esmhome.org/library/water-sparkplug/sparkcircuit.gif

You need a dpdt relay and connect cap to common and NC - NC would be from the SG or SSG output. Then you need something to trigger the relay coil by either time or cap voltage. Triggering coil will disconnect cap from SG and then dump to battery instead of ignition coil like you see in the diagram.

Is there a reason you want to use a relay instead of an SCR?

cdjambov
06-22-2016, 08:47 AM
Is there a reason you want to use a relay instead of an SCR?

Thanks Aaron.

Seems the SCR is staying opened after the cap reaches some voltage.
I have zener 16V along with a led diode to trigger the scr and the led lights all the time ... it is dim though. The cap bank is ~70mF and more have arrived to make it ~130mF.

I have tried also neon controlled SCR, transistor breakdown.

I think you mentioned earlier that you got best result with mechanical switch. So I want to try this.

I am using different methods to charge the caps, bedini style PC fan, SS SSG, joule thief (currently). I am experimenting and learning basically as I am not an electrical engineer.

Now that I am writing this I got some ideas what I might have done wrong. So I will post later.

My relay is of this type
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0953/5270/products/02750001_00.jpeg?v=1446834758

Aaron
06-22-2016, 07:53 PM
Here is one old version I did:

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/oscillator2000.gif

Bedini's patent cap dump without scr -

http://www.icehouse.net/john1/mono-pole11.jpg

Older mechanical switch timed by pulley using isolated recovery winding:

http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/US6545444B2/US06545444-20030408-D00000.png

cdjambov
06-30-2016, 06:49 AM
Thanks Aaron.