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Aaron
04-26-2007, 11:57 PM
Bedini Solid State Oscillators discussion. Basically any Bedini circuit that doesn't use a rotor as a trigger. Self-triggering using any variation of the schematics.

Aaron
05-09-2007, 10:35 PM
John Bedini | Radiant Energy (http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/index.html)

Mario
05-15-2007, 12:14 PM
Hi Peter, John, Aaron

I started experimenting with John's technology about half a year ago and at some point I started concentrating on the solid state energizer and am trying to get ..there. I've recently built a new working platform to experiment with single to multicoil setups but is expandable to about 10 multicoils as soon as I figure out wich one is the best of all possible combinations (I attached a pic by the way). In the beginning I thought to simply hook single solidstate circuits in parallel. then I started making some tests with different setups, cap-pulsing, single coil output diode, multicoil output diodes, output with recovery coils, etc... Also after having been working on a multicoil setup with cap pulsing for quite a while, I got much better results with a normal SG multicoil setup with output diodes charging the batts rather than one recovery-bridge cap. Might be because of the lower impedance on the output. Still working on it..so many things to test!

The other day I noticed something new, I was driving only one transistor out of the three hooked to the multicoil, the trigger and base diode were also detached from those two. So while I was running basically off a single setup I accidentally connected the output diode to the output diode of one
of the not running transistors. I could hear the freq go down a bit, like if you lower the trigger pot to increase power (and current draw). But guess what, the input current dropped, while i could measure an increase on the voltmeter on the charging output batt. So I hooked up the third output diode of the also not triggered transistor and the results got even better!
So from an electrical point of view I was driving a single setup and had two "recovery" windings with a single diode each added to it wich gave more output power and took less input current. I always thought that more than one recovery coil wouldn't gain anything..?
I also tried to link the three outputs before the diode, wich didn' give the same results.
Any help or hint to get to the best recipe is welcome!

Peter, I really liked your explanations in the radiant energy forum :thumbsup: , thanks.

best regards

Mario

Peter Lindemann
05-17-2007, 11:21 PM
Mario,

Thank you for reporting your finding that multiple windings with individual diodes produces more output. The reason that it doesn't work when the coils are paralleled BEFORE the diode is that the energy in one coil tends to discharge INTO the other coil and vis versa. The diodes prevent this from happening, and the energy recovered from both coils can then be summed.

Exactly WHY there is more energy to recover in this arrangement is not known by me. This is simply an experimental result you are reporting. It sounds very encouraging, and I hope others try to duplicate the finding.

One possible explanation is this. John Bedini has been saying for a long time that these devices draw energy in from the environment. Your experimental set-up and finding may be significant evidence in support of this idea.

Also, as to what is "the best recipe?", WHO KNOWS! You state you have a 10 strand multi-coil. Try hooking one strand up as the oscillator and the other 9 strands as extra pick-ups with separate diodes. Keep summing them, one at a time, to see where the benefit ends. That way, you can tell us!

Great work.

Peter

Mario
05-18-2007, 12:03 PM
Hi Peter,

thanks for the encouragement, It's actually two 4-strand multicoils, and I'm planning on expanding up to 10 multicoils. The first one has 5 strands because of the trigger. I have 3 transisitors on each coil, the fourth wire was initially planned for cap pulsing recovery, but I got more out of it with an output diode. Even on a single setup I noticed that output diode charges faster. I don't know why. Do you? Also what is the advantage of a fwbr vs single diode? The pulses are positive anyway no?

About the diode recoveries, I put ammeters on input and output, and for each setup I tuned the pot for the same input current to see wich one would give the most benefit on the output. With one transistor working I added one recovery and could see a distinct benefit, nr two added a bit less and nr 3 very little. Then I tried two transistors, the first recoveries added less vs the single setup. Comparing all the setups, firing all three transistors with no recovery seemed to be what gave the best output vs input curent. Maybe just adding transistors is still best, but I have to repeat this test with switches instead of soldering and de-soldering so many times.
I know ammeters don't measure the radiant part but the byproduct, so do you think the way I measured this is ok?

best regards

Mario

lighty
05-18-2007, 04:17 PM
Well, I never tried that kind of setup since I use my variant of 2 coil Litz wire. The theory is that when magnetic field collapses the flux lines of the collapsing field are cutting the surface of the coil (or in this case coils) with tremendous speed and they induce a lot of voltage without much current or in other words a lot of dielectric energy with small amount of electron flow current mixed. Now, by that token there is no reason not to pickup that kind of energy by every coil within the collapsing magnetic field. The problem I see with this concept is the fact that if you use snubber circuit on the energizing coil in order to drain the inductive collapse energy to either one of the primary source poles the induced voltage on the pickup coils is drastically reduced.

At first glance that could mean that there is some definite amount of energy available in the system or that it's possible to drain the inductive collapse energy from the whole coils setup almost completely with power coil shorted. Try the following experiment- put some transil diodes anti-parallel to the semiconductor switch you're using (MOSFET or BJT) and set their trigger voltage to some value above the power source voltage but bellow the voltage of the inductive collapse. You will notice that the transils will heat up quite quickly obviously dissipating the energy of the inductive collapse. The voltage on the pickup coils will plummet to some very low value. So, I would conclude that the collapsing magnetic field flux lines that cut the windings of the pickup coils are not the only reason for the induction of the high voltage spikes. If they were, then the fact that the primary coil is shorted would mean nothing to the pickup coils.

I will now speculate wildly and assert that the primary and most important coupling of the primary coil and pickup coils is not inductive but rather a capacitive one thus allowing the dielectric fields of both coils to be coupled to a degree. Now, if the transil diodes short the primary coil and level the charges (thus effectively killing the dielectric field) the capacitive coupling between coils will allow the transfer of dielectric energy from pickup coil to primary coil thus allowing the shortened primary coil to also sink a dielectric field from the every coil in the setup to which it is capacitively coupled.

I came up with this explanation based on some observations of the behavior of the switched coils not unlike the Bedini one. It's probably flawed but at the moment it serves it's purpose.

What's been bugging me more is what happens to the dielectric energy when it's not sinked anywhere. What I mean is- if one doesn't do anything with the inductive collapse energy (no snubber circuit, no transil diodes, no capacitor charging, not a single closed circuit in the whole setup) what happens to it? I mean I've used MOSFET's capable of handling 1000V on voltage spikes of about 800-900V and if the dielectric energy is not sinked anywhere what happens to it? I checked out that not a single semiconductor is leaking some current and that there are no closed circuits anywhere on the setup (both in primary and pickup coils) and voltage spikes appear as powerful as ever but the energy is not accumulated in any way. So, what happens to the energy of the inductive collapse in open circuit systems? Maybe there is some discharge through the air or there is a dielectric field buildup. One is for sure the energy of the inductive collapse is not being sinked, stored or converted to magnetic field. Any ideas on this one?

Aaron
06-12-2007, 11:29 PM
Circuit originally used on a bike wheel setup but then as self triggering.

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/oscillator2000.gif

Here is the output over 400 volt spikes
This is NOT the pic John posted, it is what my scope measured on my circuit. You can see 12v input on the bottom and the spike is on top.

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/oscope.jpg

terence123
10-10-2007, 07:43 AM
according to alldatasheet.co.kr, 2sc3281 = power transistor, not thyristor

Aaron
10-11-2007, 01:55 AM
Hi Terence,

Here is a pic of the discharge circuit for the cap to dead batts:

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/scr.jpg

The big black one at the top of the pic is the 2sc3281.

I see it listed as a Toshiba audio NPN transistor.

I have stated it is an SCR but I guess not. Anyway,
above is the pic of the exact circuit in the schematic in this
thread.

terence123
10-12-2007, 08:01 AM
thanks for the picture. It helps a lot. I'm having trouble location good thyristors and knowing that transistors work too will help (since i have a couple in stock :-))

terence123
10-12-2007, 08:16 AM
Hi,

I've started some experimenting too. Far from finished in this category, but boy, are things strange.

I started with making a trifilair coil with 450 turns (0.511mm diameter). Made the oscillating part first to see what it would do. Unfortunately my transistor became too hot, but i was able to switch the circuit on for about 10 secs.

On the output i connected a rectifier bridge and hooked up a cap 470uf/385V. It would charge slowly and i did several tests (only 10secs.).

Strange is that the cap used, would, for days, charge itself, when not connected. after a couple of days it stopped.
So i discharged the Capacitor and a day later it would hold 10Volts! measured with a DVM. Weird.

In the meantime i replaced the transistor (forgot type) with a 2n3055. This one stays cool but charges the capacitor very strongly (I do not have yet a circuit ready with the 555 for dumping the charge!) In a couple of seconds the C is around 250V.

wild and weird. Hope to have it all running soon. Have about 4 dead gel-batteries waiting in the Emergency-Room ;-)

Aaron
10-22-2007, 04:39 AM
Hi all,

Just been tinkering with the oscillator. I got it so that I can disconnect the input battery for up to 20-30 minutes as it self runs. Yes, there are caps and I'm charging it with the 3rd isolated winding and running that to the input, then I can disconnect the input battery.

Anyway, I'm not posting diagrams just yet...tweaking it further. The reason I'm even posting this is to show what kind of input the transistor is getting at the trigger versus what is "supposed" to be required to trigger it.

The transistor I'm using is an RCA 2n3055. 2.7k ohm resistor at the base and a 10ohm resistor on the emitter.

VOLTS 0.35
AMPS 0.000037 (0.037ma)
--------------------------
WATTS 0.00001295 watts

The above volts and amps is what is being drawn from the caps on the output and voltage is what is at the trigger according to the scope set to 0.1v divisions...part is + and part is - so trigger voltage is actually less than 0.35 volts.

It is oscillating with that input from caps while it is disconnected from the input battery.

Ewhaz
11-04-2007, 06:22 AM
Well, I'm getting my components ready for assembly finally. I'm purchasing components now, based on the Solid state oscillator in bedini's free energy generation book.

The only thing I'm having difficulty on is that some of the components do not list a voltage, such as the discharging capacitor on the charging side. What should that be?

Also.. I've been wondering for a long time now, why doesn't Bedini use timers etc for his oscillation? It seems strange that he is always using the coils field to create the resonance, is there a reason for this?

If it is necessary to get optimum EM field characteristics then I can understand, however if it is not needed... Well then that would reduce the number of wires to a coil by 1.. Or leave you with one more charging output line.

Mario
11-04-2007, 11:16 AM
Well, I'm getting my components ready for assembly finally. I'm purchasing components now, based on the Solid state oscillator in bedini's free energy generation book.

The only thing I'm having difficulty on is that some of the components do not list a voltage, such as the discharging capacitor on the charging side. What should that be?

Also.. I've been wondering for a long time now, why doesn't Bedini use timers etc for his oscillation? It seems strange that he is always using the coils field to create the resonance, is there a reason for this?

If it is necessary to get optimum EM field characteristics then I can understand, however if it is not needed... Well then that would reduce the number of wires to a coil by 1.. Or leave you with one more charging output line.

Hi Ewhaz,

The transistor part number in the book is wrong and should be BD243C, another mistake is pin 4 and 5 of the opto, the connections are inverted.
I have tried running the oscillator from a 555 instead of the trigger wire, it works too, but for every freq you are tuning to you have to readjust the duty cycle to get the best signal for that freq, finally I found that the trigger winding does this automatically and even better:thumbsup: , so I went back to the winding.

regards,
Mario

dyetalon
11-04-2007, 01:30 PM
Great work, guys. I read about the Bedini device on OU.com and other sites but never tried to acutally build anything. It's good to meet other experimenters who work at the component level, too.

Wouldn't FET's have less loss than bi-polar transistors? I mean the higher impedance of FET's should increase the efficiency of the circuit overall.

If I understand Bedini's theory, he utilizes the back-emf as a secondary source and adds it back into the primary. ????

:thinking:

Mario
11-04-2007, 03:41 PM
Great work, guys. I read about the Bedini device on OU.com and other sites but never tried to acutally build anything. It's good to meet other experimenters who work at the component level, too.

Wouldn't FET's have less loss than bi-polar transistors? I mean the higher impedance of FET's should increase the efficiency of the circuit overall.

If I understand Bedini's theory, he utilizes the back-emf as a secondary source and adds it back into the primary. ????

:thinking:

Hi Dyetalon,

I've never tried using FET's, I tried to stick to what John recommends, he said bipolars work much better for his machines. After 30+ years of research I guess he knows what he's talking about, especially because we're not dealing with conventional EE energy here. :beamup:
Many people have tried to do mods that seemed better from an electronical point of view but pretty much failed each time to achieve better results...
You can achieve to feed the input with the output battery wich is rather complicated for different reasons. He's utilizing the potential created by the coil's collapse to trigger the RE event(radiant energy). If you are just beginning to learn this technology I recommend sticking to the basics first as there is a LOT to learn eventough the circuit seems simple.

regards,
Mario

dyetalon
11-04-2007, 05:57 PM
... He's utilizing the potential created by the coil's collapse to trigger the RE event(radiant energy). If you are just beginning to learn this technology I recommend sticking to the basics first as there is a LOT to learn eventough the circuit seems simple.

regards,
Mario

Yea, you're right. Best to start with the original design and take it from there.

I'll assume you answered my question, even though we are using different words to describe the same thing. Back EMF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-electromotive_force) is what is generated when you spin an Armature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armature_%28electrical_engineering%29) through a magnetic field.
Normally suppressed with capacitors or shunt diodes, it seems Mr. Bedini is trying to utilize this effect to generate additional current that would be lost otherwise.

Do you know of anyone who has sucessfully recreated this motor? Are there any movies on the web that show this wonderful device actually running?

:confused:

lighty
11-04-2007, 06:34 PM
I've never tried using FET's, I tried to stick to what John recommends, he said bipolars work much better for his machines. After 30+ years of research I guess he knows what he's talking about, especially because we're not dealing with conventional EE energy here.

MOSFETs or even better IGBTs proved to be easier to work with for the fast switching applications. Remember that in the setup like Bedini's MOSFETs are used at the primary side where we still operate with "conventional" electricity. Of course there is a point of self adjusting oscillator function done with bipolar transistors but that can be tweaked to be done with MOSFETs of IGBTs as well.

On the secondary side of the Bedini setup the things are quite different and I found that MOSFETs and IGBTs are prone to random latch-up, self-triggering and sudden death regardless of the fact that their maximum ratings weren't exceeded. The rules of engineering on the secondary side are changed and sometimes the proven circuit setup simply doesn't work. I have a theory on why it happens and in what circumstances but I prefer to keep it to myself until I'm certain of it.

Ewhaz
11-04-2007, 08:43 PM
Hi Ewhaz,

The transistor part number in the book is wrong and should be BD243C, another mistake is pin 4 and 5 of the opto, the connections are inverted.
I have tried running the oscillator from a 555 instead of the trigger wire, it works too, but for every freq you are tuning to you have to readjust the duty cycle to get the best signal for that freq, finally I found that the trigger winding does this automatically and even better:thumbsup: , so I went back to the winding.

regards,
Mario

Well, I have the right transistor thankfully, but I did notice the difference after you pointed it out. Maybe this was enough distortion so that the powers that be would leave it alone, who knows?

But yes, changing the duty cycle on a 555 would be a real pain. I'm assuming that the higher the frequency the longer the on cycle would have to be in order to allow it to reach saturation before the field could be allowed to collapse. Most likely this would require a lot of tuning. Still, at least its an option to explore later on circuits with different applications.

Still, what about the capacitor? The voltage on it is not listed for the charging side capacitor (not the timing). From what I've read, you have to be careful not to 'hit' the battery too hard, or it will cause a cascade effect that will cause the battery to explode, or at the very least be damaged. Is there a correlation between the type of battery to be charged and the maximum voltage that the capacitor can deliver safely?

Mario
11-08-2007, 01:19 PM
Well, I have the right transistor thankfully, but I did notice the difference after you pointed it out. Maybe this was enough distortion so that the powers that be would leave it alone, who knows?

But yes, changing the duty cycle on a 555 would be a real pain. I'm assuming that the higher the frequency the longer the on cycle would have to be in order to allow it to reach saturation before the field could be allowed to collapse. Most likely this would require a lot of tuning. Still, at least its an option to explore later on circuits with different applications.

Still, what about the capacitor? The voltage on it is not listed for the charging side capacitor (not the timing). From what I've read, you have to be careful not to 'hit' the battery too hard, or it will cause a cascade effect that will cause the battery to explode, or at the very least be damaged. Is there a correlation between the type of battery to be charged and the maximum voltage that the capacitor can deliver safely?

Hi Ewhaz,

I'd take a cap rated in the 400-600V range from about 3 to 10uF. The voltage to the battery depends on the dump speed meaning the time you let the cap get its charge from the coil. I've noticed that the faster you dump the quicker the charge rate of the battery, even if the voltage is only about 30-40V. But I've also dumped at over 100v to the batt... I don't know what the max safe voltage is for a given battery, sorry.

regards,
Mario

Ewhaz
11-27-2007, 07:07 AM
Alright. I got enough of my components to build the solid state oscillator. The only problem is, it doesn't oscillate.

I have a bd243C using the resistor setup in the Free Energy Secrets book.

I've got the resistance set up kind of funky though, having to use several in series to get the values I needed (I had a bunch of assorted values on hand but not the exact values I needed). they are all 1/4 watt resistors, I'll be getting the right values later when I can afford it again.

I've checked my setup a few times to make sure everything is wired correctly and tested the transistor to make sure I didn't burn it already, however it is rated for 100v so there should be no problem. I'm using a solder less bread board.

I tried using a small standard 9v battery to see if it would trigger, which it didn't. The batter did however get overheated after a few minuets which implies a short of some sort. I can use the 9v to trigger the coil manually and I have a small neon lamp attacked to one of the output windings to verify its working. When the coil is disconnected the lamp does light up for a short time.

At first I didn't have the core completely filled with the welding rods, so I figured it was getting over saturated and keeping the transistor from oscillating. I finished packing it and tested it again, still nothing.

After the 9v didn't work, I also tried hooking it up Via a variable AC power supply put through a rectifier. I even dialed that in to 12v using my multimeter on the output. Still nothing seems to be happening.



I would post an image, but the information is from a copy written source.

linesrg
11-27-2007, 07:25 AM
Ehwaz,

My best guess is that your BD243C is 'goosed' as we say here in the UK. I have had one of the p.46/ Fig. 33 oscillators running for a while now. Every time it has failed it has been the transistor. Stick a diode tester on it.

In my experience the circuit as shown is quite finely balanced and excursions, even small ones, from the values shown can have a big effect.

In due course you might like to try a MJL21194 based version. Use it with a 100ft 18AWG trifilar coil based on a Pittsfield sized spool with a welding rod core. You need to reduce the value of the three resistors around the transistor by a factor of 10 and leave all other component values as they are.

Note the base load resistor needs to be about 3W rated.

This device really kicks bottoms (polite phrase). Be careful if using a quadrifilar coil as I have, the unused strand has quite a kick to it!!

Regards

Richard

terence123
12-11-2007, 04:53 AM
Hi,
I use a 24awg 450turn trifilair, with 2n3055 transistor. Works good. The coil was made from an old waterpump-motor from a washing-machine. The core consists of stacked strips (which was a long job to remove without damaging). I just start to charge battery (4Ah,12V). I dump around 100-120V in there (4.7 microfarad/250V cap).
Timing of 555 gives strange effect on oscilloscope. with slowing down the timing of the 555, the voltage over the cap increases, but it stalls at 120V. Dunno why it stops there.

Ewhaz
12-30-2007, 12:11 AM
I just finished assembling the oscillator yet again, this time with 1/2 W resistors of the value I needed (one or two as opposed to multiple resistors to get my values) and it works!

I have a neon lamp hooked to one of the output coils, it lights constantly with the 9V battery to the unit. I don't know the value of the lamp, but it only lights on a field collapse on the coil. I don't have the equipment to measure the voltage spikes yet, but I'll get there sooner or later.

Now I just have to wait on my batteries, and a few other componants and I can begin building the capacitive discharge charger side of the circuit and I can begin testing and perfecting it. I'm excited, I've been waiting MONTHS just to get this far with my limited budget. As soon as I do this proof of concept run, I'll post the results. After that I have other projects this Bedini coil is going to help me do.. SO many projects, so little time!

I also found my camera.. Now If I can just find that upload cord..

Found it... Heres some pictures.
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1532/coilahy0.th.jpg (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=coilahy0.jpg)
My coil, with the neon lamp lit. I think the lamp is a 110v lamp.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/8109/scope1zv3.th.jpg (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scope1zv3.jpg)
Here's an image of the output I measured with my Oscope. The voltage isn't accurate because of the limiter to protect my computer, but it shows that it is working.

Ewhaz
01-01-2008, 07:35 AM
Now that I have the system running, I had thought of something that I wonder if any one has tried yet and maybe knows the answer too.

Using multiple coils, not just one trifilar or quadfilar coil, but say 2 quadfillar side by side would it be possible to use the one self oscillating circuit to run Both coils? Is it even possible?

If your going to charge a large bank of batteries it might require more than one coil to charge them all. Using one coil strictly for the oscillation would allow the other coils to be used strictly as slave coils for output, freeing up at least 1 winding on each coil to that effect.

Ewhaz
01-01-2008, 08:21 PM
Here's also an image of the waveform off the charging side. I'm using the neon lamp and scr setup for my capacitive discharge charging side.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8231/scopehformbz6.th.jpg (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scopehformbz6.jpg)

I think this is what every one was speaking of, the voltage spikes as well as the 'h' wave form. The measurements are not to scale however.

terence123
01-06-2008, 02:50 AM
Hi,

actually, looking at the two different schematics of an SSG and solid-state charger, it looks like the SSG has a direct feedback of the battery's state (impedance) while a solid state has not.

I'm trying to bring back a sulfated old battery with a solid state charger. Now it strikes me that it would be better to have a SSG doing that because the circuit will adapt while the battery is improving, while a solid state has always the same impedance, since it always sees the same capacitor and the 3rd (output) coil has no feedback into the first oscillating circuit.

Any insights or comments on this?

Terence.

Schpankme
01-15-2008, 10:59 PM
Just been tinkering with the oscillator.
I'm not posting diagrams just yet...tweaking it further.
It is oscillating with that input from caps while it is disconnected from the input battery.


Aaron,

What trigger signal speed are you using; secs? milliseconds?

- Schpankme

ren
01-16-2008, 02:14 AM
Terence, I think that the solid state may perform better. I am not sure if this is correct but I have found that my sg doesnt charge as well as the run battery gets low. I think this is because the radiant seeks the impedance of the flat battery and as your run gets low and your charge gets high it doesnt transfer as efficiently. Capturing into a cap would Isolate this effectively. My window motor with sg circuit has a cap and scr on the back end and it will charge great, even when the run batt is low.

Please correct my simpleton explaination if someone knows better.:notworthy: :)

Aaron
01-16-2008, 06:08 PM
Aaron,

What trigger signal speed are you using; secs? milliseconds?

- Schpankme

Hi,

I have everything packed up...getting ready to move. When I set up again, I'll take videos of this and put it on youtube.

chityaman
01-20-2008, 08:54 AM
How do you get rid of the 555 timer and get the coil to self ocsillate?? I would like to see a drawing of some of the set up if that is not asking too much.

Thanks,

George

Aaron
01-20-2008, 09:31 AM
Hi George,

This schematic shows one variation:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/366-bedini-solid-state-oscillators.html#post4023

The part of the schematic on the right side of the coil core self-oscillates.

chityaman
01-20-2008, 10:04 AM
I did see that in the post. I am just now learning to read schematics so I am a little slow on the uptake. I kept being thrown off by the 555 chip in the lower left side. I guess you were using it to make sure the caps were discharging in a timely manner. I will get up to speed soon, especially with a group of experimentors like you have hear. We are a dying bread. Most people just like to eat what they are fed. I like to see where the boundries really are. I tell people a story about a baby elephant that is chained to a tree to keep it in place at the circus. Early on he pulls and pulls on the chain and learns that he is unable to break his bonds. As years go by, and he grows into a massive beast, they are able to keep him in place with a little rope tide to a stake in the ground. It is no longer the rope that holds him in captivity. He is a prisoner of his own beliefs!

Question everything!!

Aaron
01-20-2008, 05:35 PM
Hi George,

Yes the 555 is to pulse the cap bank to a battery.

The easiest way to get a SG circuit to oscillate is to keep increasing the resistance at the base of the transistor until you hear the coil buzzing like a mosquito. You might need to have a magnet just sitting on top of the coil.

This isn't the optimum tuning method to do this but is the fastest way to just have it oscillate. If you're using good size coils, just be careful that you are monitoring your caps so they don't get overcharged because they can rise pretty quick.

That is so true about the elephant analogy!

chityaman
01-20-2008, 11:23 PM
Thank you so much for freely sharing your time and information. I truly appreciate it.

George

ren
01-24-2008, 04:11 AM
Im not sure this fits here but I found some interesting properties in my sg powered window motor today. I was charging the other day and the charge batt was hovering and ever so slowly increasing from 13.20 to 13.30 over two hours. I am able to trip it into self oscilliation at certain resistances for similar amp draw, but as you guess much faster switching times. When I set it to self oscillate, the charging batt jumped upwards in voltage instantly and climbed to over 14.60 volts within a couple of minutes.

I found it interesting that I could power the wheel and charge, but as soon as I kicked it into solidstate, the top end (13.5 - 15v) charged rapidly. It doesnt charge that fast when the battery is lower. It seems like a good way to top up the last 10% of the charge cycle. I have still to get a suitable pot to adust the frequencies but amp draw is very similar to its rotational state. The ssg circuit has a bridge to collect to cap and scr.

Solace
02-04-2008, 04:58 AM
Hi all,

I notice that my battery charges faster when I adjust the frequency down to 120hz. If I increase the frequency while charging, the voltage across the battery goes down and stays there until I adjust the frequency back down.

I would have thought the more pulses would equal more radiant energy to the battery but for some reason, it charges slower this way.


Solace


.

Aaron
02-04-2008, 05:15 AM
At the higher frequency, I believe your voltage potential to current ratio is too high...slow it down and you increase the amount of current. You need enough current to get the battery into real charging mode. If the radiant is too pure at the higher frequencies, it will be a fluffy "static" charge.

I'm don't mean just charge with a lot of current...just enough.

elias
02-04-2008, 07:11 AM
Im not sure this fits here but I found some interesting properties in my sg powered window motor today. I was charging the other day and the charge batt was hovering and ever so slowly increasing from 13.20 to 13.30 over two hours. I am able to trip it into self oscilliation at certain resistances for similar amp draw, but as you guess much faster switching times. When I set it to self oscillate, the charging batt jumped upwards in voltage instantly and climbed to over 14.60 volts within a couple of minutes.

I found it interesting that I could power the wheel and charge, but as soon as I kicked it into solidstate, the top end (13.5 - 15v) charged rapidly. It doesnt charge that fast when the battery is lower. It seems like a good way to top up the last 10% of the charge cycle. I have still to get a suitable pot to adust the frequencies but amp draw is very similar to its rotational state. The ssg circuit has a bridge to collect to cap and scr.

Ren,

I have seen this happen too, but, my theory is that normal batteries are dead, according to the Radiant charger, so when a normal battery is fully charged, like say it is at 12.7 volts, the radiant charger suddenly bursts it up to 14-15 volts, I think that one should leave it like that to make the battery super charged, with a standing voltage of 13.7v and double the capacity.

Bedini talks about this in the video and states: "A 33 Ah battery may look like a 65 Ah battery".

So, When the voltage of the battery jumps up suddenly to 15 volts, it means that the battery is charged one step and is going to be super charged, if you let it there.

Anyway, only thoughts

Elias

Solace
02-04-2008, 04:19 PM
Here is the thing though. When I do the 1 ohm test, it is obvious that there is little if any current going to the battery. It is my understanding that the radiant energy causes the battery to charge itself.

I am not using the cap discharge method, only the SG solid state set up with bifiler coil. I don't get a static charge at either low (120 hz) or higher (450hz) frequency. The only difference is the charge time seems to be slower at the higher frequency. The frequency doesn't go very high even with 10k ohms of resistance in the trigger circuit. 450hz is what I get with 10k.



At the higher frequency, I believe your voltage potential to current ratio is too high...slow it down and you increase the amount of current. You need enough current to get the battery into real charging mode. If the radiant is too pure at the higher frequencies, it will be a fluffy "static" charge.

I'm don't mean just charge with a lot of current...just enough.

Solace
02-05-2008, 04:10 AM
Hmmmmm....

I found that my cap also charges much faster at low frequency 115hz as opposed to even 180hz. I was charging an uncooperative 9.6v NiCad and decided to put a large non-polarized 600uf 250v cap in parallel and break the connection to the negative of the battery leaving only the cap connected.

At high frequency 200 hz, the cap took 3 or 4 seconds to charge and the neon didn't even light up. At 115hz, the cap charged as soon as the battery was disconnected and the neon light right up. The connection to the battery sparked pretty good when reconnecting.

At first the NiCad would only charge to about 5volts but after shocking it with the cap blast a few times, it has decided to be more cooperative and is now up to 7.5volts and charging.

Jules Tresor
02-05-2008, 06:23 AM
Hi,

About solid state oscillators, you can have a look here also:

http://radiant.100free.com/zpe_bedini_solid.html

(of course you may find other info in the all website, 300 pages html)

llynch
04-06-2008, 04:59 AM
Hi everyone,

I have built the solid state circuit according to the schematic in the book. Have noted that my draw from the run battery is 25ma. This circuit sounds like my ssg but has the additional whine from the coil. I checked the frequency of both the positive and negative output and they seem to be hovering around 2khz.

One question that I haven't been able to find an answer for is, should my cap be making the clicking noise? It is not warm to the touch. But it makes the same sound as my ssg did. It's a dc cap 600v 3.3uf poly I believe. I thought I might have had it backwards but there are no markings on it to indicate polarity.

ren
04-06-2008, 07:09 AM
does your back end have an scr?

llynch
04-06-2008, 05:52 PM
It does have an SCR on the back end. I can watch the cap go a little over 70 volts and then drop to 60 then back up again.

I actually made a typo in reference to my ma draw. It's actually 250ma.

ren
04-07-2008, 01:32 AM
I only ask because I have read about someone elses experiences with solid state and they were under the impression the scr was making the audible clicking noise.

llynch
04-07-2008, 03:16 AM
It was the polarity of the cap being hooked up in reverse causing the clicking. It was also keeping the voltage from climbing past 72v. I swapped both of them around and now the clicking is gone and I get a steady 2.203 khz on both negative and positive output. The cap also is moving up quickly beyond 300v when I checked. It only puts out a single gnat noise now.

Now we'll see how the radiant night treats it.

ren
04-07-2008, 04:44 AM
nice:cheers:

Chip Shorter
04-07-2008, 10:52 PM
For 555 timers I use this online calculator:555 Timer Calculator (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/555.htm)

It figures on time and off time as well as frequency and duty cycle. You cant get 50 percent duty cycle but you can get close with a 555.

ashtweth
04-10-2008, 11:57 PM
Hi all,

i just loaded the solid state charger with a conditioned 7aH battery. On
the input was a TINY 1.3aH battery.

The start voltage on the 7ah was 12.57 volts
The start voltage on the 1.3ah was 12.96 Volts

I put the 1.3 aH battery as the input on the solid state, and tuned
the pot right down i could tell the draw, i heard the ringing on the
tri filla coil., so i know some thing was going in.

I put the 7aH battery on charge and left to it on to see what happened.

The 7Ah battery charged to nearly 13.30 volts, the 1.3ah lost it after
nearly 40 minutes to zero.

I loaded the 7ah on a fixed resistor at the c20 rate, the battery held
charge from 12.89 to 12.69 Volts (original was 12.57).

There you go, a 1.3aH battery can charge a 7aH CONDITIONED battery.
Here is the snap more to come.
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3491/41821419mg4.jpg

At the front you can see the Tiny 1.3ah hour 12 volt battery, in the
middle is Clives solid state i posted a while back, at the end is the
7aH battery showing the charge.

video coming , ill do the test again.

Ash


My Q for Peter is, can a 1.7aH battery charge a 7aH battery conventionally COLD?

ashtweth
04-10-2008, 11:59 PM
Dam i am working to hard sorry guys i forgot to post the SCG:wall:

Sephiroth
06-16-2008, 07:07 PM
Moved here from the SSG thread.

Some early results with solid state charger with solar panel.

first I'll say a bit about the batteries I'm using.

they are 12v 1.3ah sealed lead acid batteries that I use for small experiments.

One is completely dead... I have been using it for about 5 months on a replication of Plengo's "Running and LED forever" and lit an LED at about half brightness for that time. The batttery is completely dead (reads less than a volt under load) though it still lit the led.

anyway... I was using another battery for the experiment before that and left it running for several days until the battery dropped below 6 volts and I chickened out cos I didn't want to kill the battery :embarrassed:

about a week later I restarted the experiment with the other battery and left it running. The battery that had dropped below 6 volts has been sitting doing nothing (hadn't been recharged) for almost 6 months. This is the battery I am charging in the following set up.

I first began experimenting with solid state by comparing how high the coil could charge a capacitor with various resistor values. as bench marks I recorded:

1000ohm : 225v charge while drawing 100ma
3000ohm : 204v charge while drawing 75ma

I then thought to give my trusty choke coil a try! :D I had already soldered the rest of the circuit together so couldn't take out the 3000 ohm resistor but when I added the choke in series the results were as follows:

232v charge while drawing 50ma!

These amp draws were from an analogue meter.

So I left the choke in and hooked up the setup to my little solar panel to see how well it could charge the old battery.

Dissappointingly, the solar panel would only charge the 1000uf capacitor to 1 volt and drew less than 5ma (it doesn't recieve direct sun light).

The neon won't light with the charging battery detached but I can confirm it is oscillating using an am radio. Suprisingly high frequency.

I hooked up the old battery and left it going all day yesterday. and you can imagine my suprise when it went from 6.35volts resting to 7.84volts resting in less than 6 hours!

I have to admit, that I still don't know how much energy is actually in the battery because it could be in poor condition though this seems to be an incredible leap in voltage with such a tiny input!

Dont get too excited yet because this is all very recent so I need to do more tests, but first I want to see if it can fully charge this battery.

Will let you know!

637

ren
06-16-2008, 09:00 PM
Some very interesting results from a little solidstate number I built here. It is a self oscillating SG circuit with the full cap pulser on the back end. It will charge a 7 amp hour battery from 12.2 to 15v in 2 hours off 24 volts input. I charged one up the other day, let it rest and then load tested it. It ended up coming to rest at 12.73 volts. Funny thing was, as soon as I loaded it with the 300ma globe it only dropped to 12.71 volts and CRAWLED down slowly after that. Usually it would drop a good .10 of a volt before it stabilised!

By the way Sep I think I figured out dump frequency, see my post on the 24v cap pulser. Build the SS guys its awesome!

theremart
06-16-2008, 09:04 PM
Some very interesting results from a little solidstate number I built here. It is a self oscillating SG circuit with the full cap pulser on the back end. It will charge a 7 amp hour battery from 12.2 to 15v in 2 hours off 24 volts input. I charged one up the other day, let it rest and then load tested it. It ended up coming to rest at 12.73 volts. Funny thing was, as soon as I loaded it with the 300ma globe it only dropped to 12.71 volts and CRAWLED down slowly after that. Usually it would drop a good .10 of a volt before it stabilised!

By the way Sep I think I figured out dump frequency, see my post on the 24v cap pulser. Build the SS guys its awesome!

-----------------------------
Ok, what is your schematic?

theremart
06-16-2008, 09:46 PM
HI Mart , Jacqui here , this just an idea , If you take an SSG cct remove the trigger cct and put your own solidstate signal generator in place of the SSG cct , you should have solidstate energizer . I like to use the TL494 chip and add a variable pulse width and frequency control . The trigger winding could be utilzed or you could just use a 300-500 ohm base resistor and run it directly from your PWM cct . Just multiply the cct ( multi fila ) if you feel so inclined .The coils I wind are 140 foot in length , .6-.8 mill wire . I'm about to put capacitor discharge on a new unit , sort of a Tesla idea . If you beat me to it I say jolly good luck to you .

Bi and good tinkering , Jacqui .

------------

Jacqui , Mart just to clarify , all windings are the same guage and the power transistor / transistors are located between the coil and neg. the other end of the coil winding is the pos. supply or run battery , it's just a coil in series with a DC chopper the output is a tap with diode just between the coil and the transistor collector . This idea is a JB cct without the spining magnet trigger etc. Jacqui .

theremart
06-17-2008, 01:59 AM
Moved here from the SSG thread.

Some early results with solid state charger with solar panel.

first I'll say a bit about the batteries I'm using.

they are 12v 1.3ah sealed lead acid batteries that I use for small experiments.

One is completely dead... I have been using it for about 5 months on a replication of Plengo's "Running and LED forever" and lit an LED at about half brightness for that time. The batttery is completely dead (reads less than a volt under load) though it still lit the led.

anyway... I was using another battery for the experiment before that and left it running for several days until the battery dropped below 6 volts and I chickened out cos I didn't want to kill the battery :embarrassed:

about a week later I restarted the experiment with the other battery and left it running. The battery that had dropped below 6 volts has been sitting doing nothing (hadn't been recharged) for almost 6 months. This is the battery I am charging in the following set up.

I first began experimenting with solid state by comparing how high the coil could charge a capacitor with various resistor values. as bench marks I recorded:

1000ohm : 225v charge while drawing 100ma
3000ohm : 204v charge while drawing 75ma

I then thought to give my trusty choke coil a try! :D I had already soldered the rest of the circuit together so couldn't take out the 3000 ohm resistor but when I added the choke in series the results were as follows:

232v charge while drawing 50ma!

These amp draws were from an analogue meter.

So I left the choke in and hooked up the setup to my little solar panel to see how well it could charge the old battery.

Dissappointingly, the solar panel would only charge the 1000uf capacitor to 1 volt and drew less than 5ma (it doesn't recieve direct sun light).

The neon won't light with the charging battery detached but I can confirm it is oscillating using an am radio. Suprisingly high frequency.

I hooked up the old battery and left it going all day yesterday. and you can imagine my suprise when it went from 6.35volts resting to 7.84volts resting in less than 6 hours!

I have to admit, that I still don't know how much energy is actually in the battery because it could be in poor condition though this seems to be an incredible leap in voltage with such a tiny input!

Dont get too excited yet because this is all very recent so I need to do more tests, but first I want to see if it can fully charge this battery.

Will let you know!

637

What you are doing is adding a couple of caps and I higher resistor in the trigger coil section... to the SSG. I did this for a while with a 5K pot. With low voltages it did great but it did seem to heat up my resistor, But I did not have caps in the circuit as you do...

Sephiroth
06-17-2008, 06:23 AM
lol... I did notice the caps :p

There isn't any heat even with the 12v supply, though that will be because it has such a low draw. I'm just suprised it ocsillates at all with only 1/200 watt input! Let alone charge a 12v battery.

Edit : did I say 1/20 of a watt? I meant 1/200 of a watt!

selamatg
06-17-2008, 08:08 AM
Hi,

Are SS better than SSG in result?

regards,
Selamatg

theremart
06-18-2008, 02:22 AM
Hi,

Are SS better than SSG in result?

regards,
Selamatg


It takes less energy, charges the battery faster ( more on time typically ) and you don't have to start it like the SSG so a blessing for solar panels. Many pluses to a SS. Also it will charge at lower voltage.

Downside is you don't get any mechanical energy.

I am willing to give that up myself I am tired of fighting bearings and alignments... And another benefit. I will keep doing the SSG's but looking forward to set it - forget it type charging.

Quiet. ( unless you make your coils sing :thumbsup: )

ren
06-18-2008, 05:19 AM
Hey Mart do you still need a simple schematic for SS build?

theremart
06-18-2008, 11:28 AM
Hey Mart do you still need a simple schematic for SS build?

Aaron has pointed me to one that he has used, but I am open to look at multiple designs before I move ahead. What design did you use?

Thanks!

ren
06-18-2008, 09:20 PM
mine was pretty much the same as JB's schematic, some parts changed due to availability, slightly bigger cap. Oh and its an air core. If you want to do something different, after you build it, run it with air core at a frequency where you can hear it buzzing. Slip a piece of metal into the core and note what happens:)

theremart
06-19-2008, 12:35 AM
mine was pretty much the same as JB's schematic, some parts changed due to availability, slightly bigger cap. Oh and its an air core. If you want to do something different, after you build it, run it with air core at a frequency where you can hear it buzzing. Slip a piece of metal into the core and note what happens:)

Ok so you used the earth battery SS on page 46?

I just found this video on youtube using a SSG to change it to SS with a 10K resistor.

YouTube - Bedini School Girl Project OverUnity Solid State Free Energy (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2hUSGB0dbK8&feature=related)

theremart
06-19-2008, 08:54 PM
List of parts from Aarons diagram for SS

Upper left down

( Bridge rectifier ) I guess I could use 4001 diodes.
Capacitor 1.8 UF at 600V
2sc3281 transistor
2n3440 transistor
330 R ( 3)
4.47 uf capacitor
555 timer
23 gauge wire enough for 4,000 turns,
26 gauge for 2,000 turns
10K resistor
RCA3055 transistor
7 ohm resistor
10 ohm resistor
in914 diode

What I don't know on the schematic is the attached two small pictures what the parts are. One is a resistor ( with either a question mark or a value of 7 ), and the other is a transistor I think, but h11D1 or is it H11P1?

Please help !

Thanks!

Aaron
06-19-2008, 09:04 PM
I would use resistor sizes, etc... as indicated in the schematics in the FEG book.

The first pic is a H11D1 optocoupler

The second was 2 resistors I had in parallel for some reason. You only need one and it probably won't be a 10 ohm...you can see some examples on the schematics in the FEG book.

ren
06-19-2008, 09:08 PM
Hey Mart, Dude check out my comments to Sep in the "24 volt cap pulser" thread. There is a diagram I drew there with step by step instructions for the wiring of the 555 and opto (yes its H11d1) etc.

You shouldnt use 4001's for the bridge, I think they are only rated for 50v. 4007's or 5408's should do the trick. Pretty much any coil you can get to self oscillate, it doesnt have to be as big as Aarons. Mine is only a 100grams of #22 SWG X 3. Aaron has used a transistor to interupt flow instead of an SCR, and he has used a different cap on the 555 by the looks of it. You can try different cap values across the bridge, the lower the uF the higher the voltage will shoot up to.

Good luck:thumbsup:

ashtweth
06-20-2008, 12:20 AM
Guys i just asked about the solid state

"The schematic you have in the FEG doc is correct, tho the transistor is the wrong one... should be the BD243C. The rest of the schematic is accurate. The frequency it oscillates is far higher than 913hz... its around 3.3khz on the one I built. "

Ash

theremart
06-21-2008, 01:16 AM
:thanks: :thanks:

I sure do appreciate your help.

Mart

ashtweth
06-21-2008, 02:40 AM
thats what we are here for mart, to look out for each other and help one another, all of us pared together will make it a dark day for the oil cartels :thumbsup: :cheers:

gosho
06-25-2008, 07:56 PM
Hello guys,

I want to ask those of you who built a solid state device according to the Free Energy Generation book. Can you please tell me about the coil? How many windings, what height/width and what size of the core the book recommends?

Thanks,
gosho

Chip Shorter
06-25-2008, 09:57 PM
All you really have to do is provide a high voltage dc source for the cap. The chopper circuit takes care of the rest. You can use a Cockroft-Walton type circuit that is staged. Its similar to what your doing now but with a couple of inductors and diodes in series instead of just one stage.

gosho
06-26-2008, 05:58 AM
You are probably right, but I can not claim to have any insight about this radiant energy stuff and I agree with Mr. Bedini when he says "first do exactly as I say, then experiment".

Regards

ashtweth
06-26-2008, 09:26 AM
I would second that, John states its the wave form.

Here is a quote form the old board, so any circuit wont work:)

"I used both the 3 x 23 awg at 1/2lb spools and 3 x 18awg at 1lb spools... Built as that schematic shows, you should see between 3khz to 6khz with the 3 x 18 at 1lb with the welding rod in the coil. The 555 timer output on Johns was somewhere between 3-15hz is all... allowing significant time to build a voltage in that tiny 3.3uF cap. There is significant voltage built up in the relative ratio of the oscillators self oscillation and the discharging of the cap via the SCR... I could see it get up to over 100volts easy... and if I shut off the scr portion it would go over 700volts pretty fast... The spikes on the scope were right around 700 volts the whole time... tho the little bd243c wouldn't get warm and I wasn't using any heat sink. "

-------------------------------------

I have made my first solid state charger, using the schematic from page 46 of the FEG book. I have been able to resurrect 2 old deep cycle batteries so far that where beaten up pretty bad in a solar system (bulging, high impedance etc.) I used a microchip to turn on the opto coupler instead of the 555 chip because I thought I might be able to get better performance by using a higher duty cycle than the 50/50 from a 555. I have not found a setting yet that works better than 50/50. Here are the specs:

Tri-filar wound
450 turns Awg #23 copper magnet wire
3/4" R60 welding rod core
913hz oscillations on cap
cap dump every 200ms
peak voltage on cap 270v
In the book (pg 109) it says the oscillator should be at 25Khz. Mine doesn't get anywhere near that, only 914hz. I wonder if anyone else has had one run that fast.

John Bedini’s Answer

You did great, the waveforms are correct. for the Iron core it's working fine, air core is next 2.5 k to 25 Khz. Measure the radiant current and wave form by using a coil to pass the discharge wire through. be very careful if you get it up in power as it is close to your nerve impulses. The stair step looks just like Beardens analogy. Great work keeps going. That waveform can do wonders not fully explored yet. That is Tesla's time wave that he talked about. Great scope shots. Thanks for posting this. You can bias the core with a week magnet, power will increase in only one direction try it you will see. you can control the Bloch wall of the coil, additive energy sucked from the magnet.

gosho
06-26-2008, 10:12 AM
Thank you, Ashtweth. Where is this old board, is it still alive? Maybe I could read some useful discussions there.

theremart
06-27-2008, 08:27 PM
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Mouser #: 782-H11D1
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---------------------------


Ok this is what I have so far on building the SS from the FEG book.


Next question, do I need 2W resistors? I just want to build this right.

For the SCR, I guess I should get 1 or 2 because they burn out easy? I was hoping to do 24V with this...


Thanks..

Chip Shorter
06-28-2008, 12:29 AM
theremart- I think the SCR he wants you to use should be rated for 800 volts. I have some that are as big as a hockey puck and others that are in a TO-220 package size. All 800 volts.

If your talking about the resistors on the 555 and the h11d1 1/8 watt will do. I would go 1/4 or half watt on the transistor circuit. The cap I used on my first one was out of a flash circuit for a disposable camera. The value escapes me at this time but the whole thing worked great.

theremart
06-28-2008, 11:48 AM
theremart- I think the SCR he wants you to use should be rated for 800 volts. I have some that are as big as a hockey puck and others that are in a TO-220 package size. All 800 volts.

If your talking about the resistors on the 555 and the h11d1 1/8 watt will do. I would go 1/4 or half watt on the transistor circuit. The cap I used on my first one was out of a flash circuit for a disposable camera. The value escapes me at this time but the whole thing worked great.

How many amps is your SCR? I see them from 18 to 200 amp..

Thanks again for the input!

ashtweth
06-28-2008, 12:22 PM
Thank you, Ashtweth. Where is this old board, is it still alive? Maybe I could read some useful discussions there.

:thumbsup: Bedini_SG : Bedini SG Discussion List (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_SG/)

Chip Shorter
06-28-2008, 03:26 PM
How many amps is your SCR? I see them from 18 to 200 amp..

Thanks again for the input!
Its a mcr265-10 which is rated for 55 amps @800 on my original version(edit)
Depending on the size of your capacitor. If you use a very big cap maybe you want to go with the higher current SCR. So if you see yourself down the road going to change the cap around or add more, maybe a bigger SCR would be advantagous. Go with what you can afford.
A note about making changes to these circuits: Sometimes when you get the thing running you see what is really happening... In the book Free Energy Generation they talk about getting 300KW pulses on the negative side of the battery... In the same book they show an antenna variation whereas they hook up a long antenna to the HV cap and then fire the SCR into the Battery. If using an antenna we could presume that the voltage is there perhaps 200-600 volts but I can tell you very little current is present perhaps micro amps and the cap is very small probably a few hundred pico-farads. However the Dialectric strength of these componets must be able to withstand hundreds of volts. Also I can tell you that the advanced motor circuit with the 555 charges way faster than the antenna system. So pulse potential/frequency is key here. Remember when discharging caps electron current shows up due to the fact you have a voltage drop when the SCR fires. If you haven't already got the book Free Energy Generation Circuits and Schematics by John Bedini and Tom Bearden it is worth getting. Its hard to read at first but once you build the circuits-the motor ones at least-by the 5th or 6th time you read it all makes perfect sense. I strongly recommend the book because it covers the theory and how it has been misinterpeted/overlooked over the last 100+ years. Also the bibliography section of the book is chock full of interesting info too.

theremart
06-29-2008, 12:20 AM
Its a mcr265-10 which is rated for 55 amps @800 on my original version(edit)
Depending on the size of your capacitor. If you use a very big cap maybe you want to go with the higher current SCR. So if you see yourself down the road going to change the cap around or add more, maybe a bigger SCR would be advantagous. Go with what you can afford.
A note about making changes to these circuits: Sometimes when you get the thing running you see what is really happening... In the book Free Energy Generation they talk about getting 300KW pulses on the negative side of the battery... In the same book they show an antenna variation whereas they hook up a long antenna to the HV cap and then fire the SCR into the Battery. If using an antenna we could presume that the voltage is there perhaps 200-600 volts but I can tell you very little current is present perhaps micro amps and the cap is very small probably a few hundred pico-farads. However the Dialectric strength of these componets must be able to withstand hundreds of volts. Also I can tell you that the advanced motor circuit with the 555 charges way faster than the antenna system. So pulse potential/frequency is key here. Remember when discharging caps electron current shows up due to the fact you have a voltage drop when the SCR fires. If you haven't already got the book Free Energy Generation Circuits and Schematics by John Bedini and Tom Bearden it is worth getting. Its hard to read at first but once you build the circuits-the motor ones at least-by the 5th or 6th time you read it all makes perfect sense. I strongly recommend the book because it covers the theory and how it has been misinterpeted/overlooked over the last 100+ years. Also the bibliography section of the book is chock full of interesting info too.

Thanks I have the book. I don't relate to much of it. My objective is to get to supercharged batteries. I hear rumours they exists... but still tracking them down.

thanks

Maxwell
06-30-2008, 04:13 AM
Don't forget what has been previously mentioned in this thread (but 8 months ago now):

The transistor part number in the book is wrong and should be BD243C, another mistake is pin 4 and 5 of the opto, the connections are inverted.


Those opto connections threw me off for a while. Find the H11D1 datasheet if you are not sure. You want it to make a Darlington configuration.

Maxwell
06-30-2008, 07:41 PM
Ash,

John Bedini mentioned on the Bedini_SG board quote that the waveforms in question were correct. I looked on that board but could not find those pics. What waveforms should we be looking for?

theremart
07-01-2008, 07:21 PM
A friend of mine is building the SS. Here is their questions...

"
Hey chief,
I thought of a question, maybe a few.
The solid state charger that you built, did you get it going as it is supposed to from the book?
I have the parts now, from the store today, and I'll start putting the correct version together tonight.
What I was wondering is, I was under the assumption both transistors were NPN, which I'm pretty sure both symbols on the schematic posted for me show it that way.
But the secondary on the discharge portion..
Well, I went to get one at the parts store today, they didn't have it, but had a replacement for it, which was a P based.
Is that one supposed to be a PNP? The one controlling the SRC?
And two other questions if you don't mind..
Did you see a big difference in charging from the SCR section, verses right off the coil?
I had put this circuit together, minus the SCR, with a mosfet, and I didn't see any difference. I'm sure I need the SCR.. lol
And last, if you know, what is the difference between an SCR and a thyristor?
As far as I can tell they are the same thing, but different qualities somehow, not really understanding it.
Appreciate your time."

dambit
07-03-2008, 08:47 AM
Hi all,

Has anyone got a scan of the schematic you are all refering to. I havn't seen one yet. (sorry if it is here and i just missed it).:rofl:

I managed to get my ssg circuit to oscillate by placing a mulitmeter over the 100ohm base resistor. The meter is on the 200ohm test setting. I can get the coil up to 22KHz if I adjust the pot all the way up, but I'm not sure if the highest frequency is the most efficient frequency.

Pics are on the SSG thread. (wasn't sure where to put them.)

InTheField
07-03-2008, 11:36 AM
I also haven't seen the schematic, but would really like to... ;)

A friend of mine is building the SS. Here is their questions...

"
Hey chief,
{snippage occurs}
And last, if you know, what is the difference between an SCR and a thyristor?
As far as I can tell they are the same thing, but different qualities somehow, not really understanding it.
Appreciate your time."

A lot of folks use the terms interchangeably, but the term "thyristor" actually encompasses more than just SCRs. An SCR is a sub-type of thyristor... other sub-types include things like "diacs" and "triacs". (A "diac" is basically a diode for AC circuits. A "triac" is also bidirectional, but has an "on" gate.) An SCR is basically a PNP coupled with an NPN together in one setup. Once it's turned "on", it stays on until the current flow drops below a certain amount. So, when you go to the local electronics store be specific and ask for an SCR. If you ask for a "thyristor" and you get the wrong clerk, you may end up with a triac... which isn't what you want, but fits what you asked for! :eek:

take care...

theremart
07-03-2008, 11:46 AM
I also haven't seen the schematic, but would really like to... ;)



A lot of folks use the terms interchangeably, but the term "thyristor" actually encompasses more than just SCRs. An SCR is a sub-type of thyristor... other sub-types include things like "diacs" and "triacs". (A "diac" is basically a diode for AC circuits. A "triac" is also bidirectional, but has an "on" gate.) An SCR is basically a PNP coupled with an NPN together in one setup. Once it's turned "on", it stays on until the current flow drops below a certain amount. So, when you go to the local electronics store be specific and ask for an SCR. If you ask for a "thyristor" and you get the wrong clerk, you may end up with a triac... which isn't what you want, but fits what you asked for! :eek:

take care...

Thank you for the info I have passed it on! :notworthy:

Maxwell
07-03-2008, 12:33 PM
The solid state oscillator schematic referred to here is in Tom Bearden's book Free Energy Generation. I'm not sure a scan would be legal.

Go back to post #7 in this thread (here (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/366-bedini-solid-state-oscillators.html#post4023)). That circuit is essentially the same thing.

theremart
07-03-2008, 12:56 PM
The solid state oscillator schematic referred to here is in Tom Bearden's book Free Energy Generation. I'm not sure a scan would be legal.

Go back to post #7 in this thread (here (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/366-bedini-solid-state-oscillators.html#post4023)). That circuit is essentially the same thing.

No, I got chewed out by Rick for posting it on the Bedini III group for a user who owned the book with the corrected schematic. ( part of the reason I left there ) so no, not a good idea to post that schematic... which I understand why... if you can get it for free why buy the book?

But do note the schematic does need to be corrected as stated before, I am waiting till all my parts get here, I hope I ordered the right parts.

So frustrating trying to replicate, when the target moves. But so good to have a group here that help you to the next step.:cheers:

dambit
07-04-2008, 02:42 AM
well how about someone draw up the corrected one. it's not in the book.:rofl: technically not the same schematic.

What's are differences between the schematic in post #7 and the proper one? Components wise.

(P.S please don't start quoting copyright law, I was having laugh.)

ashtweth
07-04-2008, 05:17 AM
Ash,

John Bedini mentioned on the Bedini_SG board quote that the waveforms in question were correct. I looked on that board but could not find those pics. What waveforms should we be looking for?

Maxwell i can email you them
Drop me a mail ashtweth@gmail.com

Sephiroth
07-04-2008, 05:49 AM
Haven't been having great success with the SS yet though gradually improving as I tweak it.

I have a few questions.

Aaron - what is the purpose of the resistor on the negative side of the circuit? Wouldn't that just reduce the voltage supplied to the coil?

Also you have recommended using high capacity caps that are discharged a few volts above the charging voltage. However, I have only ever heard bedini recommend discharging low farad caps at high voltage.

Am I right in thinking that discharging the caps using your system is more like a standard charge and so the batteries can be swapped, whereas bedini's method is more of a radiant charge and so isn't as good at running inductive loads? You said pulsing the caps at high voltage creates a "fluffy" charge, though surely Bedini would have noticed this.

Aaron
07-04-2008, 07:02 AM
The fluffy voltage was probably because I didn't have everything right.

I just left that resistor there on one variation because that is how I discovered the oscillating effect back then. I had too high of resistance that with the way the aetheric gas operates, it forced like a water hammer effect in my opinion that caused it to oscillate.

I would put the resistors like Bedini's schematics. Most of those you can find in the patent database. United States Patent and Trademark Office Home Page (http://www.uspto.gov)

When I was doing high capacitance discharges, it was about 7 years ago. When I kept doing it to the batts, they kept climbing after everything was turned off. Draining those batts with bulbs, charging back up same way, etc.... repeat...the light burned more joules of energy than what I could calculate leaving the input. Even accounting for a 100% duty cycle leaving the front...saying the input battery is turned on longer than it really was, was more out than in. The input voltage was accurate...measuring current leaving, that could have been inaccurate. Bottom line, they were super batteries compared to before they were charged this way. But anyway, the results were astonishing. I rotated batts, it was amazing to see. I don't believe the lead ions in the battery are simply in "momentum" and that is why they keep charging. The aether is entrained at the terminals of the output battery and that is why it keeps charging in my opinion. Based on Tesla's explanations in Secrets of Cold War Technology, that is what makes sense to me.

gosho
07-04-2008, 10:21 AM
Guys, I have a little problem with this scheme. When I turn the power on after about five seconds the 1k potentiometer is starting to smoke and burns. Do you know why is this happening? Thanks.

theremart
07-04-2008, 01:32 PM
Guys, I have a little problem with this scheme. When I turn the power on after about five seconds the 1k potentiometer is starting to smoke and burns. Do you know why is this happening? Thanks.

Smoke is a bad thing, as they used to say, that is electricity leaking turn it off :rofl:

Anyhow, are you using the old or the new circuit? ( see earlier in this thread for the corrections to the book )

When I get my SS here, and working I hope to give the specs for parts that do work, where I got them and the part numbers. I think we need a beginners guide to the Solid State Bedini. I think we can point people to the book for the schematic, but, give a parts list, and corrections to the books schematic.

I would hope that the publisher would create a page for the corrected schematic, but with a requirement that you type the word from page like 59, paragraph 4, in order to get it.

I am hearing people smoking parts on building this, I think we could build a best practice guide to building the solid state Bedini.

My first step is to build this, I hope the right way.....

Bodkins
07-04-2008, 10:25 PM
Hi all been working hard on my 555 timer pulse ss and having some success.
My layout is bi wired coil 555 variable trigger across the emita and base,
the thing is im charging two batterys at different points.

The first charging battery is the standed bedini setup.
the secord charging battery is from the old trigger wire to the 555 battery.
I always thought the trigger on the sg was a waste of energy so by going ss in can use the charge in the trigger!

This solid state can also be used as a sg by using a reed switch to connect the 555 to the E and B. the coil can pulse alot more time with each magnet past like this.

Now im concetrating on the earth battery copper sulphar postive diode and nickel negative. O And condiscaing the batterys.
Hope this helps somebody.:peaceflag:


Sorry about he spelling im dyslicsick

Bodkins
07-05-2008, 10:44 PM
Last night left my ss charging over night.
Mistake the pulse rate drop so low it drain the primary battery, was reading 5volts in the morning which is a nightmare.(my 555 battery dosent charge like i thought),

So i swap the batterys around one reading 5volt the other reading 12voltish
6 hours later both batterys read 11.50 volt.COOL!:D

trying over night again will post result in the morning.
good luck everone i can see a breakthouht coming!:thumbsup:

Philosopher
07-07-2008, 07:25 PM
Hello People!
Experimenting with this circuit,have you noticed the conductive plastic effect and the RF blue/green discharge from the capacitor as seen on the Bedini video?

I want to build the circuit posted here,( http://waterfuel.t35.com/zpe_bedini_solid.html ),But I havent the correct wire size.The best I have is 0,5mm dia magnet wire.Do you thing that using the same copper mass of the original circuit will work the same?.Thank you.

Regards,
Cyrano

Sephiroth
07-09-2008, 05:37 PM
I am incredibly puzzled... :confused:

Still experimenting with solid state and getting some very encouraging results...

but not the way I want to :mad:

My best results have been with discharging high farad capacitors a few volts over the charging voltage. (Aaron's method)

But John uses high voltage discharges so I would expect that to perform better...

but I have just run a 24 hour test discharging a 160uf cap 100v above the charging voltage every second and the battery has only gone up .03v in all that time!!!! when using high farad caps the batteries would be fully charged by now!

These are very well conditioned batteries so I can not understand why the charging effect is so poor with high voltage.

Anyone care to comment?

theremart
07-09-2008, 08:53 PM
I am incredibly puzzled... :confused:

Still experimenting with solid state and getting some very encouraging results...

but not the way I want to :mad:

My best results have been with discharging high farad capacitors a few volts over the charging voltage. (Aaron's method)

But John uses high voltage discharges so I would expect that to perform better...

but I have just run a 24 hour test discharging a 160uf cap 100v above the charging voltage every second and the battery has only gone up .03v in all that time!!!! when using high farad caps the batteries would be fully charged by now!

These are very well conditioned batteries so I can not understand why the charging effect is so poor with high voltage.

Anyone care to comment?

I have my parts for this on order...

If Aaron's metod proves better I will switch over to building that setup..

Mart

ren
07-10-2008, 09:46 AM
Seph, I have switched over to the larger capacitance caps now, though I still have my small 33uF250v solidstate. It seems to charge faster if the frequency of the dump is faster, like say 10 times a second. Of course this doesnt allow for as much of a voltage build up. It will still charge either way though. Im thinking now that the larger capacitance may be the way to go?:confused:

patmac
07-14-2008, 01:17 AM
Thinking on mathematic model of Bedini Solid State, I think can be a little better Bedni Mechanical Osc in some points; because:

If you look Bedini Mechanical, is a oscilating system, but oscilation is not only one frecuency.

Bedini Mechanical OSC (Bedini motors SG, SSG etc) is a oscilator that puch to maximal performance possible, because switching by the trigger coil is near to be perfect; is like a pendulum as said Tesla someday, if you push a swing always in the exact moment, oscilation is higher everytime, only using the same energy in each push. That is Bedini SG for me, magnet pass on the core coil, and the coil push the magnet in the exact moment where the speed is'nt very important, meanwhile Bedini Solid State depend on Coils Calculation and exact solid state oscilators switching.

How do you can to know exact moment to push the swing?

Personally I like Bedini Mechanical because is like a pendulum.

Please if I'm very wrong please reply me immediately and I'll change this post....

Thanks. I'm wating for answers from everybody.... Excuse for my English, I'm learning....

Karl_Palsness
07-14-2008, 03:10 AM
I built the Solid State oscillator several months ago. I learned 4 things that might be of interest to some of you. I got better results from the oscillator when I switched to Silver Coated Wire, I think I used 20G or 22G wire. I found that when using a Magnetite core the output was stronger and I used less input energy. The final comment is that in order for it to start oscillating I had to remove one of the 2 magnets and gently drop it on one end of the core to start the oscillating. I used Neodymium magnets on each end with the orientation the same as if the magnets were attracted to each other and the core in the middle. I fingered this out when my core started to self oscillate when I was using it on the motor with the silver coated wire and the wheel was not turning. I have not used this since I started using the same idea on a triode and was getting better results with that. I am still using the Magnetite for my triode core.


Karl

Sephiroth
07-15-2008, 05:09 PM
anyone tried using a toroid on an oscillator? I can't get mine to self oscillate... it is air core, about 6 inches diameter and wrapped with 4 layers trifilar...

I suspect I may need more turns....

ren
07-16-2008, 06:58 AM
Seph I have tried. You may have more luck with more turns but I would suggest using a 555 timer circuit, similar to the capacitive discharge try fire a fet or transistor which pulses your primary. Search for 555 tesla coil in google, there is a good site with a simple circuit for a tv flyback transformer. It is remarkably similar to the CD pulser in layout.

Sephiroth
07-17-2008, 05:40 PM
Thanks ren! The 555 is a really good idea!

Though I just got the toroid self oscillating last night :D Hurray! It takes far less resistance than I expected.

I was hoping to see some odd behavior with a toroid instead of using a standard solenoid...

First impressions are good... started it this morning with 1kohm resistance and the amp draw was 300ma... 8 hours later it has dropped to 120ma...

15ah battery has charged from 12.41 (resting) to 12.88 (charging) in that time so it does the job...

I'll leave it for a bit longer to see if the amps continue to drop then I'll get some cop measurements.

Sephiroth
07-19-2008, 01:10 PM
Update on the toroid...

after 24hours amp draw dropped to 80ma
after 36hours amp draw dropped to 60ma
after 48hours amp draw dropped to 50ma

charging was then pretty much at a standstill at 13.12volts... I was using a desktop power suppy with a constant input voltage of 13.9volts...

I thought perhaps when the charging voltage approaches the intput voltage the current will stop, effectivly halting the oscillation.

To test this i then connected two equally charged 7.2ah batteries, one to charge and one to power the oscillator.

Unexpectedly it is performing normally. Input is approx 300ma and charges the secondary battery over 16volts which is way above the input volatge. Amp draw stays steady... don't know what was causing the steady drop in amps during the first test with the power supply.

First impressions are good... appears to be out performing my previous coils dispite it being a pretty lousy toroid!

COP tests still need to be performed, but does anyone have a good link to where I can learn more about the difference between the magnetic flux in a toroid and a solenoid? I can't really get my head around how the magnetic field is behaving...

Philosopher
07-19-2008, 03:42 PM
Sephirot,
Can you post a circuit schematic of your charger?

Sephiroth
07-19-2008, 04:01 PM
nothing special except for the coil... Pretty much a standard SSG circuit except I use a capacitor on the trigger side to aid resonance...

Sephiroth
07-19-2008, 04:34 PM
Just completed first COP measurement.

COP = 0.7985

Not bad considering I havent tuned it yet :)

peper10
07-19-2008, 05:13 PM
Nice to see you got results(better then what i expect you can get from it).
You show us once again that you are a well self motivated experimenter!!
:cheers: :notworthy: :yahoo:
I SALUTE YOU WITH ALL my respect!!!

peper10

Sephiroth
07-19-2008, 05:40 PM
Thanks peper!

0.8 is a pretty good cop to begin with.... I'm sure I can improve it! :thumbsup:

theremart
07-19-2008, 05:47 PM
Thanks peper!

0.8 is a pretty good cop to begin with.... I'm sure I can improve it! :thumbsup:


Thanks Seph!

I should be getting my parts in next week for the SS. They had some parts on backorder.

So have you built the one that is in the book FEG?

Also what guage of wire did you use? I have 20 guage wire, and I am wondering should I get the exact gauge of wire required?

Thanks.

Sephiroth
07-19-2008, 06:07 PM
I have built several variation of the SS though not sure if any of them are from the book :rofl: I do not have alot of cash to spare and I am saving for an oscilloscope so can't afford the book as yet :(

I am using 22 guage and 26 guage wire

I have tried cap pulsers as well, but as yet have not been able to get as good a cop as just connecting the battery straight to the coil (via diode)...

Also tried trifilar with a recovery coil but unsure whether this is an improvement over bifilar...

However, I was having another look at thedaftman's schematic and I realised the advantage of doubling the turns on the recovery coil; it will allow the battery/cap to charge above the primary voltage with the coil being energised (as opposed to just using the collapsing field). This would justify the bridge recitifer. I think that it may capture more of the collapsing field as well. Worth experimenting with.

theremart
07-26-2008, 02:16 PM
Most of the parts have come in for my Solid State Bedini.

I have choosen to got with the corrected version of the book page 46 Free Energy Generation.

I do have a question, it states it requires a capacitor for the 555 timer, it says it is a 1 uf.


On another schematic I have they have 2.2uf capactior but they use a 100K pot with the 555 timer...

What I need to know is how many volts this capacitor next to the 555 timer needs to be in the book version. Thanks!

Sephiroth
07-26-2008, 08:30 PM
sorry Mart, can't help on that one as I don't have the book though I have built a few 555 circuits so can have a pretty good guess...

the cap should be at least 12v... probably best to go for around 18-20v. from what I understand, the 555 works by comparing the voltage between the cap and the input voltage. When the cap gets to (i think) two thirds of the input voltage it discharges the capacitor through the output to ground, in this case through the opto and 330ohm resistor, then resets once the cap has discharge.

You can uses the 150k pot instead of the 330ohm resistor closest to the cap to adjust the interval between the pulses as it will vary the time it takes for the cap to fill to the trigger voltage. I don't think the capacity of the cap makes too much difference.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong as my knowledge of 555 circuits is limited :)

theremart
07-27-2008, 01:15 AM
I understand, I was hoping Aaron or someone else could fill in the details of the cap next to the 555 timer what it's voltage may be.

Mart

linesrg
07-27-2008, 02:29 AM
Mart,

A 16V capacitor would be fine but 25V a safer bet.

I notice Sephiroth mentioning in a slightly earlier posting about JB using 'high voltage' pulses from a cap pulser to charge batteries. It's more a case of once upon a time he did, more recently he's gone for alot less than this i.e. 1or 2V over the battery.

One thing to remember when playing with JB circuits. Build them as JB says first before seeking to change them.

Regards

Richard

Aaron
07-27-2008, 03:22 AM
The first cap discharges I did were a couple volts over the charging batt and discharged with a mechanical copper switch that I made. That gave the best results I've ever had as far as what I was able to pull out of the charging batts.

theremart
07-30-2008, 09:41 PM
Ok, starting to build the SS, and I am thinking do I need heat syncs on any of the transistors or the scr?

theremart
07-30-2008, 09:43 PM
Mart,

A 16V capacitor would be fine but 25V a safer bet.


I notice Sephiroth mentioning in a slightly earlier posting about JB using 'high voltage' pulses from a cap pulser to charge batteries. It's more a case of once upon a time he did, more recently he's gone for alot less than this i.e. 1or 2V over the battery.

One thing to remember when playing with JB circuits. Build them as JB says first before seeking to change them.

Regards

Richard

Thanks for you info!:thanks:

MGC
07-31-2008, 01:52 AM
Hi Mart, if your draw is 1/4A or less you should be fine without heat sinks. The 1/2w resistors get a little warm but the transistors seem fine.

theremart
07-31-2008, 11:39 AM
Thank you for your information. I am getting closer to having this built still lacking a capacitor that I missed but getting there.

theremart
08-03-2008, 02:30 AM
Whew..... a BIG THANKS to all who have helped give me advice on how to get this up and running.

If I am reading my scope correctly I am getting 200V spikes from 12V.

Have not started to tune this yet, ( I have put in two pots ) but I hope to put this threw some trial runs... Looking forward to hooking this up to my 15 W solar panel.....

The devisions were set to 10

Mart

theremart
08-05-2008, 03:10 AM
Ok,

I noticed that my charging battery was not climbing at all.... So I double check my circuit, and I found I had missed some things on the 555 timer. After a few hours of testing it now is humming right along. At last I am seeing some very impressing rise on my target battery, and for very very low amounts of current draw.

I am wondering if I was to put a load on the battery if it would hold a load as well as if I had charged it with the SSG......


I have been along time about this, and at last it is nice not to have to spin a wheel.

gmeat
08-05-2008, 03:44 AM
Ok,

I noticed that my charging battery was not climbing at all.... So I double check my circuit, and I found I had missed some things on the 555 timer. After a few hours of testing it now is humming right along. At last I am seeing some very impressing rise on my target battery, and for very very low amounts of current draw.

I am wondering if I was to put a load on the battery if it would hold a load as well as if I had charged it with the SSG......


I have been along time about this, and at last it is nice not to have to spin a wheel.


Hi Mart,


I think you're going to like the SS better than the SSG :D .It will hold a load very well.Nice to see you making progress and let us know how it performs.


-Gary

theremart
08-05-2008, 11:52 AM
Hi Mart,


I think you're going to like the SS better than the SSG :D .It will hold a load very well.Nice to see you making progress and let us know how it performs.


-Gary


It is so nice not to fight with the balance of the wheel, the magnets.....

Simply flip it on and watch the show...

Last night I ran it all night..


Primary battery went from 12.40 to 12.22

Target battery went from 13.20 to 13.75.

I will have to do load tests to see if the numbers are not just surface charge ( this was the case the last time I charged with solid state ....

brusers
08-06-2008, 07:28 AM
Hey theremart,
Congrats on the build, sounds like you got it.
I'm still fighting with mine a little, I think it's just my parts, and my breadboards I'm using have had too many things melt down in them.
I had my ss working for one night properly, and it was charging faster than this 8 transistor deal I had built, which I thought was pretty beefed up.
I could hear the ss switching with the cap and everything, it was beautiful. But I did something and the sound stopped, and the charging dropped, and I think I just need to start over and nix the breadboard.
But thanks for the help you had given me, and again, congrats.

Marcel

theremart
08-06-2008, 11:20 AM
Hey theremart,
Congrats on the build, sounds like you got it.
I'm still fighting with mine a little, I think it's just my parts, and my breadboards I'm using have had too many things melt down in them.
I had my ss working for one night properly, and it was charging faster than this 8 transistor deal I had built, which I thought was pretty beefed up.
I could hear the ss switching with the cap and everything, it was beautiful. But I did something and the sound stopped, and the charging dropped, and I think I just need to start over and nix the breadboard.
But thanks for the help you had given me, and again, congrats.

Marcel

The only problem now is I want another one :) :)

And I want to convert my 6 transistor Monopole to a 6 transistor Solid State Bedini :)

I hate the smell of smoke!!! :wall: sorry to hear you are having such trouble.

But my SS is charing its little heart out. I have come to the point that I hate to touch it because I might do my smoke signals :)


I have done a new video showing the results...

YouTube - Video 46 Solid state Bedini (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20kX-Tf_Bls&feature=email)





Mart

brusers
08-06-2008, 10:05 PM
Nice video.
I think I have too many projects going on.. lol
The whole scientific documention thing has evaded just about everything I have been working on, just too much in my head I guess.
My to do list still has "SSG load tests" on it, from my first wheel.
Everything went well, so I was invited to the other groups, but my calcuations were a but funny, so I wanted, and still should, do another basic setup, just to get the math down.
Inspiring, good stuff, keep it up.

Marcel

theremart
08-06-2008, 10:25 PM
Nice video.
I think I have too many projects going on.. lol
The whole scientific documention thing has evaded just about everything I have been working on, just too much in my head I guess.
My to do list still has "SSG load tests" on it, from my first wheel.
Everything went well, so I was invited to the other groups, but my calcuations were a but funny, so I wanted, and still should, do another basic setup, just to get the math down.
Inspiring, good stuff, keep it up.

Marcel

Thanks! :)

I let my computer log the data... Too painful to keep doing the logging every hour...

theremart
08-06-2008, 10:28 PM
Well I put an analog meter on and found I am pulling 100 mA at 12V. Target battery of a deep cycle has climbed up from 10V to 12.3V

I am wondering how to increase the amp pull as I have golf cart batteries and I really don't want to wait 1 week to charge them....

Mart

selamatg
08-07-2008, 04:08 AM
Well done Mart,

Seem you have very good result....:thumbsup:
I can't wait your other test with big capacity battery...

Are you check the COP too?

vzon17
08-07-2008, 07:12 AM
I found these nice toroidal transformers that have dual primarys and dual secondaries all separately issolated. the primaries are for 115vac and can be hooked in series for 220 etc. Well its a toriod with 4 windings on it. seems like it could be used to make a nice toroidal SS. without having to wind one up by hand.

Search Results Page (http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&SO=2&CATID=31&ObjectGroup_ID=605)

There is one available tha has the two secandaries of 115 v also but they didn't show it on the site. that would make a toriod with 4 equal windings on it. but one could actuall use the one that has the 60 volt secondaries and hook them in series and then then you would have a toriod with trifilar windings of approx equal length. The biggest one on their site weighs 13.9 pounds and is 6.3 inches in diameter seems like it would make a kick ass powerfull SS or something similar.

Parts Express:Avel Y236905 800VA 60V+60V Toroidal Transformer (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=122-720)

theremart
08-07-2008, 03:11 PM
After testing the wave forms on the SS, with a scope, I am thinking I killed the H11D1 in circuit, but not sure.

What is giving me fits is when i hook up the according to the book Pin 5 of the h11d1 to Anode of the scr, and Pin 4 to the B of the 2n3584 transistor it does not work which is how the corrected page of the book reads.. If I switch those two it works, but the wave form look wrong. I am not sure if I killed the h11d1 or not.... I have an extra but I don't want to put it in till I know the correct way to hook it up... any suggestions as to the proper routing of these pins?

The first time I hooked this up I was getting a normal transistor fire on the 2n3584, but then again... I don't know what the wave form should look like comming off that transistor...

selamatg
08-07-2008, 03:34 PM
Hi Mart,

I have ask to Ren about OPTO H11D1.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2027-24-volt-cap-pulser-battery-swapper-2.html

His explaination very clear to me, and I made tester for the OPTO to see which still good condition or broken.

tecknomancer
08-07-2008, 05:57 PM
hello everyone,:notworthy: since I found this forum had been impressed with the quality and amount of research being done by individuals.I have been working with these type systems for 4 years and I am convinced this is the right path here's a link to my DC oscillator I seem to be getting a considerable amount of capacitor charge, I am using trifilar and quadfilar coils and 200V caps and also incorporated these nifty little 80 V neon lights that I found surplus they are automated machine fault/error lights they seem to work better than the NE2's
with respect and I welcome your opinion.

YouTube - DC Oscillator Motor Controller (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNAlo-JFl1w)

theremart
08-07-2008, 07:33 PM
I got the setup working, as it is charging target battery and now pulling .5 Amp so the target battery is climbing fast. ( changed the resistor next to the transistor from 10K to 100 ohm with a pot next to it.)

I took more scope shots from both the primary transistor and the secondary.


It does seem I am getting the staircase wave


thanks for your help selamatg!:thanks:


Mart

theremart
08-09-2008, 11:27 AM
Starting voltage

85 amp 12Amp 12Amp Total voltage Change of Total volts
12.5 12.27 12.27 37.04
12.13 12.37 12.37 36.87 -0.17
9.15 12.54 12.54 34.23 -2.64


Yesterday I took the deep cell 85 amp hour battery battery that I had charged up with the solid state and used it to charge back to two 12 amp hour batteries. This was the results. The deep cell did not seem to hold up for very long with the charge that was given it.

The amp draw was .4 Amp from the SS ( have changed my base resistor to 100 ohms ) and I am getting a different wave form, a stair step effect. instead of the normal sharp high pulses I was getting with the 10K resistor in.

The cap keeps a constant 20V in it as it discharges to the target battery.

I tried 24V input to he circuit for a short time yesterday, the voltage on target battery shot up to 13V about immediately. But I backed off after I saw that it was draining my source batteries at a high rate. Source batteries were two 13 amp batteries. went down from 12.60 to 12.13 in about 5 min.

Sephiroth
08-09-2008, 12:31 PM
Hi Mart,

The first two photos of your scope look perfect. As the voltage in the cap rises the flyback voltage is increasing until the cap discharges.

But I can't figure out the next two photos :confused: looks like there is a second wave form?

and you say the cap keeps a steady 20v? What capacity is it?

Have you done any load tests yet? :)

I still can't figure out the tuning on my oscillators... output seems to be proportional to input ie. I can't find a "sweet spot" so my cop is staying between 0.79 and 0.81 ... an oscilloscope would be handy :D Damn you rich people flaunting your fancy oscilloscopes!!!! lol

theremart
08-09-2008, 12:55 PM
Hi Mart,

The first two photos of your scope look perfect. As the voltage in the cap rises the flyback voltage is increasing until the cap discharges.

But I can't figure out the next two photos :confused: looks like there is a second wave form?

and you say the cap keeps a steady 20v? What capacity is it?

Have you done any load tests yet? :)

I still can't figure out the tuning on my oscillators... output seems to be proportional to input ie. I can't find a "sweet spot" so my cop is staying between 0.79 and 0.81 ... an oscilloscope would be handy :D Damn you rich people flaunting your fancy oscilloscopes!!!! lol

Ok, they look perfect, as to what standard ? :D I don't know what I am shooting for, I have zero idea of what a good shot looks like. The first shot is from the collector of the BD243C transistor (case ), the second transistor the 2N3584. ( the Book FEG schematic which is close to Aarons schematic )

There was a big change in waveform when I changed the base resistor to 100 ohms instead of 10K, The 10K had tons of sharp straight spikes, but the 100 ohm was the stair step on the BD243C (Case).

BTW, my scope cost me all of $50.00 I am a super cheap skate I did a search on ebay found the dealer was local went to look at the scope, and it was broke!! but he said, I have another back here went and tested it well the rest is sitting on my desk...

The load test was I drove the SS with the charged SS battery ( charged to 12.60 charging voltage ) I put it on for 12 hours and it dropped down to 9.V
sigh, so it did not do well in the first load tests. I am thinking of hooking my battery swapper up to swap between a load, and the charger so I have a timed load / charge.

Oh yes the cap is a 500V 3.3F cap. I think it is overkill, but I got the exact components the book recommends I wanted this one to be right. The book shows a tighter stair step than mine, I am thinking something is not quite right on the 555 chip.

Since this is charging, I believe this means that the opto coupler is working. sigh it is a new world, and I don't know what the values should be when I go around the board.

Today I hooked this up to solar 5 W panel to two 13 amp hour batteries in parallel with the ss. I am very curious to see how the two batteries responds.

Sephiroth
08-09-2008, 01:10 PM
3.3 farads!!!! That's huge! Though that would be why your cap isn't showing fluctuating voltage :D

Though did you mean 3.3uf? ;)

If so, then it is curious that your cap is showing constantly 20v... and the scope shot is showing increasing and decreasing voltage... puzzled.

Ok, they look perfect, as to what standard ?

By perfect I mean it is exactly what I would expect to see :D

So were the spikes approximatly equal when you had the 10k resistor in? That is interesting....

BTW, my scope cost me all of $50.00 I am a super cheap skate I did a search on ebay found the dealer was local went to look at the scope, and it was broke!! but he said, I have another back here went and tested it well the rest is sitting on my desk...

lol... 50 seems to be the magic number when buying a second hand oscilloscope regradless of currency :D second hand oscilloscopes in the uk go for at least £50 plus about £15 postage on ebay... so about $120... :(

theremart
08-09-2008, 02:34 PM
Yes 3.3 uf :o

The scope is from the first transistor that fills the cap. The second scope shot is the release of the cap, ( thus it is around 20 V) and it is a complex wave, I am guessing it is picking up the spikes of the first transistor and I am seeing the combined waveform.



>By perfect I mean it is exactly what I would expect to see :D

Ok, ya high spikes are cool and to think without any magnets... This has got me rethinking all the magnet configs I have done, I mean I did not have to have an expensive neo to get spikes of this magnitude.

So were the spikes approximatly equal when you had the 10k resistor in? That is interesting....

They were higher. at least a constant 50V yet there was not enough amps in the spike to make the target battery get past its impedence ( my best guess of understanding what is going on). This is why I increased the amps to try to fully charge the batteries from 100 Ma to 400 Ma.

Another thing to consider is at the start of this I had the 555 improperly wired. I was getting 200V spikes because the cap was not discharging I found if I unhooked the charging and hooked it back up POW the spike would release and woke me up a bit :)

It seems the 555 does not seem to operate unless I am in a certain voltage range. A range of about 12Vdc at least I don't hear the clicking noises I have come to expect when it is doing it's job. I am told that you need proper resistors for the 555 for each voltage range you do.

I first hooked up to the solar 5W panel I am getting 13V in he cap... after seeing this did not give me much in the cap I then decided to hook the solar panel to a larger batter that is at 12V then use this as my primary for the SS, this is working much much better cap now has 20.V in it and the 555 is firing as it should. Target voltage is rising quickly now.

iret
08-10-2008, 06:54 AM
Hi Everyone,

I am new to this forum and just want to share some of my own research info on this topic. I have attached two pictures of my oscilloscope readings from my driver and coils output.

Is this the type of waveform for Bedini Oscillators ?

1st picture:

A = signal from transistor driver
B = transistor turning off
C = voltage spike from electromagnet
D = Some kinda ringing ?
E = Just my camera reflection

2nd picture:

Same as above with both signals added together.

Cheers,
teri

theremart
08-10-2008, 10:27 AM
Hi Everyone,

I am new to this forum and just want to share some of my own research info on this topic. I have attached two pictures of my oscilloscope readings from my driver and coils output.

Is this the type of waveform for Bedini Oscillators ?

1st picture:

A = signal from transistor driver
B = transistor turning off
C = voltage spike from electromagnet
D = Some kinda ringing ?
E = Just my camera reflection

2nd picture:

Same as above with both signals added together.

Cheers,
teri

Hi Iret,

Welcome to the forum!

I also am trying to understand what is target with the waveforms. I have the "Free Energy Generation" book, and in it it shows a sorta stair step, what is called a "time wave". And I think I am getting close to that in my latest wave forms. The waveforms seem to change with the changing of the base resistance, once I change that it I had significant changes in the wave forms.

Good shots there of your scope! I guess what would help to know is what schematic did you use to construct yours?

I think since we don't have an exact idea of what we are shooting for we can take notes of what setups yield a high amount of return out of the charging battery. From looking at the data on Rick's site, it seems that you have to charge/discharge several times before you will see these results.

Anyhow, thanks for sharing your scope shots.

Mart

iret
08-11-2008, 03:47 AM
Hi Mart,

Thanks for the feedback.

I have the "Free Energy Generation" book, and in it it shows a sorta stair step, what is called a "time wave

I am planning to get a copy myself. Weird thing is, the seller refuse to ship it worldwide with tracking. How did you get yours ? Can you post that waveform from the book ?

From my understanding of time wave is the total of time it takes to charge a capacitor and discharge to a load in short amount of time. Correct ?

Are there any distinct visual characteristic for this time wave to watch out on oscilloscope ?

I guess what would help to know is what schematic did you use to construct yours?

It is just a 555 running in astable mode with frequency adjustment I got it off google a while ago.

At location D for the previous post, that part consist of two sine waves 180 degree apart or double helix. Is that normal ?

Cheers,
iret

theremart
08-11-2008, 05:46 PM
Since the Cap is dumping the energy to the Battery, there is no need for an inverter with this Solid State Bedini as given in the book FEG.. setup ( I guess if you follow the idea of negative radient energy)...

Is that statement right?

theremart
08-12-2008, 12:00 AM
Well I had this battery on the SS drawing 400 millamp at 11.5 to 12 V for 3 days. I was not very impressed with the results.

The battery voltage under charge was 13.20V.

In comparison the other LONG line is the amp hours I got out with the battery being charges with a Neo at 20V at about .5 AMP for about 8 hours.

I cut the test off at 12.5 V...

I was charging 2 batteries at a time with the SS, and not with the neos... But I must say I was very disappointed in the amp hours the battery held. I guess I could try charging the battery again this time the battery by itself with a constant 12.5 V.


Mart

theremart
08-12-2008, 12:29 AM
Hi Mart,

Thanks for the feedback.



I am planning to get a copy myself. Weird thing is, the seller refuse to ship it worldwide with tracking. How did you get yours ? Can you post that waveform from the book ?

From my understanding of time wave is the total of time it takes to charge a capacitor and discharge to a load in short amount of time. Correct ?

Are there any distinct visual characteristic for this time wave to watch out on oscilloscope ?



It is just a 555 running in astable mode with frequency adjustment I got it off google a while ago.

At location D for the previous post, that part consist of two sine waves 180 degree apart or double helix. Is that normal ?

Cheers,
iret

I would have to get permission before I post anything from the book.

I am asking permission now for a wav that Bedini approved of that was from someone's build, I am working on getting permission now.

mart

peter4you
08-12-2008, 08:51 PM
Hi there,

At the momemt I use appr. 6-15V from a laboratory mains adapter for testing the setup with one modified PC fan.

--At appr.10V I can see the neon bulb firing (depending on the kind of fan I use.

I've tried charging various kinds of batteries (LiIo 3.7V, NiMh 5V) and they do charge to their specified voltage, although when I discharge them via a light bulb (bicycle bulb, 6V), they lose their charge very quickly (within appr. 10 Min. or less).

--However, this is not the case if I have charged the batteries in the traditional way using a charger.--Any ideas why this is happening with my setup?

Is the voltage reading that I get from the charged batteries incorrect (e.g., does it show up electrostatic charge instead of real voltage charge?)?

Any ideas, suggestions, help?


Looking forward to your reply
Peter (from Germany)

theremart
08-12-2008, 10:06 PM
Great question to ask, but should be asked in the fan thread......
you might nudge Imhotep a bit :)

theremart
08-13-2008, 11:58 PM
It seems I did not really test the SS properly the last time in my chart. I did not charge the battery up to the same 14V resting voltage it was charged with the neo SSG.

I did note that after I put these batteries back on the solar charger after being on the SS they went up to a much higher voltage then when they had before. They normally stay at about 12.8 - 12.96 Today they shot up to about 14V and a resting of 13.2.

I am now testing my 100 + amp hour batteries with the solid state charger...

theremart
08-14-2008, 12:59 AM
Hi Ewhaz,

The transistor part number in the book is wrong and should be BD243C, another mistake is pin 4 and 5 of the opto, the connections are inverted.
I have tried running the oscillator from a 555 instead of the trigger wire, it works too, but for every freq you are tuning to you have to readjust the duty cycle to get the best signal for that freq, finally I found that the trigger winding does this automatically and even better:thumbsup: , so I went back to the winding.

regards,
Mario

This is soooo True, even on the corrected diagram pins 4 an 5 are inverted. (going back and re-reading the old posts )

theremart
08-14-2008, 01:17 AM
I built the Solid State oscillator several months ago. I learned 4 things that might be of interest to some of you. I got better results from the oscillator when I switched to Silver Coated Wire, I think I used 20G or 22G wire. I found that when using a Magnetite core the output was stronger and I used less input energy. The final comment is that in order for it to start oscillating I had to remove one of the 2 magnets and gently drop it on one end of the core to start the oscillating. I used Neodymium magnets on each end with the orientation the same as if the magnets were attracted to each other and the core in the middle. I fingered this out when my core started to self oscillate when I was using it on the motor with the silver coated wire and the wheel was not turning. I have not used this since I started using the same idea on a triode and was getting better results with that. I am still using the Magnetite for my triode core.


Karl

I found the frequency slightly went faster when I had neos on one end of the SS...

I also have Magnetite core, have not tried the welding rods, because I glued the magnetite in when I was using a wheel.

I am also using 20 guage wire, much more wire than what is called for... a full spool.

peter4you
08-14-2008, 10:19 AM
I've found now that the NiMh batteries don't keep the charge well, but the Li-Io batteries do.--I'm using 2 fans in parallel now, which works well (will try using more fans and experiment with mixed series- and paprallel connections).

I'm testing right now how it works, if I connect a stepup converter between the running battery and the Bedini circuit (either before the circuit or after it.--I will report how it works and if it does anything to improve the setup).

I'm also using a stepup converter when drawing power from the charged battery, when I'm running gadgeds like a mp3 player or a 1W mini stereo amp (with two 3,7V Li-Io batteries in series I get appr. 7,5V of running power that way.--The power supply is more stable and the batteries last longer than without a stepup converter.--I do get appr. 6,5V via the stepup converter just using one 3,7V Li-Io battery, but the battery doen't last long and a mp3 player connented to the battery makes a funny noise.-The stepup converter circuit stays cold and functioning).

Maybe the hints will help.--Keep on fiddling

Tarcil
08-23-2008, 11:36 PM
Hello to all!

This is my first post, and I'd like to say how refreshing it was to discover this forum. I have already learned a great deal and hope to contribute something in return.

I recently got my replication of the Bedini SS running. I followed the circuit diagram on p42 of Free Energy Generation, with reference to p46 for component values. On the output side, I'm using a neon bulb with SCR (TYN1006) to discharge the output capacitor (4.7uF, 250V) into a resistive load (40W incandescent).

One difference with my circuit is that I was unable to find the BD243C transistor, so I used a TIP41C instead. The specs for this device are similar (NPN type, 100V, 1A) and it seems to be working fine.

My coil is trifilar wound, 450 turns of 22 ga magnet wire, laid side-by-side. This type of coil has three identical windings: one is the primary, another is used to trigger the transistor, and the third collects output energy, which is passed through a high-voltage rectifier into the output capacitor.

The system runs in two modes: with an open-air coil, and with a steel core comprised of several common nails bundled together. The power supply is an AC wall transformer, fed through a low voltage rectifier with a capacitor (4.7uF) to smooth out ripples. More about the power supply in a few minutes.

Breadboard construction was used throughout, with the large parts screwed into a wood base for stability. Happily, the circuit started working on the first try. (That is, after I got the resistors wired correctly ;-) The little neon bulb flashes at a perceptible rate, and the incandescent load warms to the touch.

== Performance Data ==

Using the air core, the primary coil oscillates at 5.6 KHz, with a pulse width of 32 uS. The output cap discharges to load at 59 Hz, with one stair step visible.

Using the steel core, the primary coil oscillates at 3.6 KHz, with a pulse width of 40 uS. The output cap discharges to load at 40 Hz, with two stair steps visible.

I have a couple of analog meters on the power supply (after the rectifier). With the air core, the circuit draws 115mA at 11V DC. With the steel core, current increases slightly to about 122mA at 11V DC.

== Questions ==

1. I have become rather confused about the power supply. Even with the capacitor, the supply is noisy with lots of spikes up to about 20V. The circuit seems to thrive on the noise. I spent quite a while trying to replace the the AC supply with a stable, bench type DC supply. But I could not get the primary to oscillate with the DC supply. Any ideas?

2. The little neon bulb should trigger the SCR when it sees about 90 volts. But the scope only reads about 10 volts. Why?

3. I find the stair steps on the charging waveform quite remarkable. With adjustments to the circuit, I have seen as many as four steps. Can anyone explain what they represent?

And finally,

4. How can I improve this circuit?

Any comments or suggestions would be most welcome.

Thanks!

theremart
08-24-2008, 01:16 AM
Welcome to the forum Tarcil,

I also if you have have just completed the SS on page 46 of FEG. I am to new at this to give you any certain direction, I feel the same way, ok I have made this now what does a good running tuned one look like? I guess you have the wave forms that are in the book, I have attempted to drive this at 24V, and got fantastic charging rate, however my opto got VERY hot. So I am in process of finding a way around that.


I will give you what another forum member has given me as he was looking thru the Bedini forums... Attached is a scope shot, and here is Bedini's coments on it.


"
Post-
I have made my first solid state charger, using the schematic from page 46 of the FEG book. I have been able to resurrect 2 old deep cycle batteries so far that where beaten up pretty bad in a solar system (bulging, high impedance etc.) I used a microchip to turn on the opto coupler instead of the 555 chip because I thought I might be able to get better performance by using a higher duty cycle than the 50/50 from a 555. I have not found a setting yet that works better than 50/50. Here are the specs:
Tri-filar wound
450 turns Awg #23 copper magnet wire
3/4" R60 welding rod core
913hz oscillations on cap
cap dump every 200ms
peak voltage on cap 270v
In the book (pg 109) it says the oscillator should be at 25Khz. Mine doesn't get anywhere near that, only 914hz. I wonder if anyone else has had one run that fast.

John Bedini’s Answer

You did great, the waveforms are correct. for the Iron core it's working fine, air core is next 2.5 k to 25 Khz. Measure the radiant current and wave form by using a coil to pass the discharge wire through. be very careful if you get it up in power as it is close to your nerve impulses. The stair step looks just like Beardens analogy. Great work keeps going. That waveform can do wonders not fully explored yet. That is Tesla's time wave that he talked about. Great scope shots. Thanks for posting this. You can bias the core with a week magnet, power will increase in only one direction try it you will see. you can control the Bloch wall of the coil, additive energy sucked from the magnet.

"

This let me have a idea that the stair step was right, but I don't know how to advise you more from here as I am still digging and playing.


ahh only for 24V SS :)

and Welcome
:welcome:

theremart
08-25-2008, 10:41 PM
Hi,

Any suggestions for modification of the FEG to go to 24V? The opto copuler got too warm for me, but oh, I love how this charges...

Thanks!

Tarcil
08-26-2008, 04:06 AM
Thanks for the post, theremart. That's good info.

At this point I suspect that the replacement transistor is not working out. I have some BD243Cs on order from Mouser. If that solves the problem, I'll study the data sheets and report back.

Any suggestions for modification of the FEG to go to 24V? The opto copuler got too warm for me, but oh, I love how this charges...

I'm new at this, but... maybe you could try putting a resistor in series with the output of the optocoupler. That should cut down on the current without affecting the timing.

Cheers!

theremart
08-26-2008, 08:06 PM
Has anyone ever taken an ignition coil and used it on the standard Solid State circuit found in the FEG book or used Aarons?

Just considered trying this, and wanted to know how crazy an idea it is.

cowboyrx
09-01-2008, 02:45 AM
Hello all,

I have several questions regarding the solid state version and have attached a schematic I found online. Please help:
1. Is this a complete and accurate circuit? Are the pins 4 & 5 on H11D1 correct or interchanged?
a. Are all resistors 1/4 watt?
b. Are all 3 windings on trifilar 23 gauge similar to magnet wire? Someone mentioned using 26 gauge for one of the primary windings, is that better?
c. What is the core material and dimensions? I have a 3/8" diameter ferrite rod of 10" length.
d. 1N4007 physically looks like a diode with 2 ends, do I need 4 of them to make the full bridge rectifier as shown right of the coil?
e. What is the capacitor type (ceramic, electrolytic/etc.) of 3.3 and 1 micro Farad ?
f. What is the capacitor voltage ratings?
g. What is "SCR 800V" shown next to the batteries being charged?
h. What is the part # of the Diode shown next to "2N3584" ?

2. How long will it take to re-charge a typical 12V car battery of 650CCA, that has drained down to 8-10V?

3. Will this circuit prevent overcharging?

4. What's the cheapest way to use a 120V AC wall outlet to use as supply 12V?
a. Can I use one of the 12V transformers used to laptops, LCDs, routers, etc.? If so, what should be the minimum amps rating of the transformer?
b. Can I use the 12V DC from the PC power supply? If so, what should be the minimum amps rating of the line voltage?

5. Will the circuit charge any type of battery (Li Ion/Polymer, NiMh, etc.)?

6. My ultimate goal to have a charger than can charge any car battery pack from 12V to 144V car EV pack (6/12V batteries in series/parallel) using 120V AC as source. Is that feasible by modifying this somehow? The commerical units are available of Bedini design, but for $1300!

Thank you.

theremart
09-01-2008, 03:10 AM
Please remove that schematic, as that is copy written material and life will be better for this board! :) ( I know I was hounded by Rick F. for posting it on the monopole boards bad me )

But will be glad to share what I know, All is good as I have built this, and I am charging a battery now with it. The circuit as show does has limitations, don't go over 13 V imput as it will cook the 555 and the opto. ( I am working on a revision now to separate those so i can take a 24V input. )

Be sure to know the updated schematic is ok that ships with the FEG with the exception that pins 4 and 5 are switched on the opto.

There are two caps on this board, if you look earlier on this message board you will find recommended ratings for the caps...

I myself prefer the ferrous material over the welding rods.

I have just built this like a month ago, and I am still learning myself, but will gladly share what I know.

Cheers!

ren
09-01-2008, 06:17 AM
hmmm. Mart I have had no trouble running a solidstate on 24v. I had to replace the mj3055 transistor to a MLJ21194 as it was over heating, but never had any problems with the h11d1.

Something that may or may not help is this. Use a really thin wire on the output of the h11d1. The thinner it is the less current it will flow. Use really thick wire from the negative terminal to the anode of the SCR, and from the cathode to the cap. the h1's NPN is only rated for 500ma I think, it shouldnt be getting hot, especially if the current had a lower resistance path to travel.

Check all your pins, ive never had one heat up???

ren
09-01-2008, 06:34 AM
Hello all,

I have several questions regarding the solid state version and have attached a schematic I found online. Please help:
1. Is this a complete and accurate circuit? Are the pins 4 & 5 on H11D1 correct or interchanged?

Look for a h11d1 data sheet on the net. The output side is a simple npn transistor and it is hooked up in darlington configuration to the other npn.

a. Are all resistors 1/4 watt?

That'll do the job

b. Are all 3 windings on trifilar 23 gauge similar to magnet wire? Someone mentioned using 26 gauge for one of the primary windings, is that better?

They are magnet wire, must be coated/insulated. 3 lengths of #23

c. What is the core material and dimensions? I have a 3/8" diameter ferrite rod of 10" length.

Core can be welding rods, or air core. Ferrite might work too.

d. 1N4007 physically looks like a diode with 2 ends, do I need 4 of them to make the full bridge rectifier as shown right of the coil?

No idea what your asking, a diode has two ends. You can use 4 to make a bridge, they will work fine.

e. What is the capacitor type (ceramic, electrolytic/etc.) of 3.3 and 1 micro Farad ?

You can try various caps. Plans state 3.3uF (microfarads) 600v cap. Pull apart an old CFL, there is one in there around those ratings. Can use higher capacitance caps too.

f. What is the capacitor voltage ratings?

Make sure it is fairly high (50 plus volts), ESPECIALLY if it is low uF rated.

g. What is "SCR 800V" shown next to the batteries being charged?

SCR stands for silicone controlled rectifier

h. What is the part # of the Diode shown next to "2N3584" ?

Its not a diode, if there is a diode on yours you have something different to me. 2n3584 is the transistor which is Darlington'ed to the optocoupler

2. How long will it take to re-charge a typical 12V car battery of 650CCA, that has drained down to 8-10V?

Depends on your gauge size, overall length, input voltage and quality of build and battery

3. Will this circuit prevent overcharging?

No

4. What's the cheapest way to use a 120V AC wall outlet to use as supply 12V?

Buy a cheap stepdown transformer for the rated voltage. try and get one that will provide a couple of amps @ 12v. Talk to your local electronic shop.

a. Can I use one of the 12V transformers used to laptops, LCDs, routers, etc.? If so, what should be the minimum amps rating of the transformer?

Yes. Minimum 1 amp.

b. Can I use the 12V DC from the PC power supply? If so, what should be the minimum amps rating of the line voltage?

Yes, see above.

5. Will the circuit charge any type of battery (Li Ion/Polymer, NiMh, etc.)?

Probably, but care must be taken. LEARN AS MUCH ABOUT YOUR BATTERY AS POSSIBLE. I would say no to all of them but Lead Acids and NiCads. Just not worth the risk.

6. My ultimate goal to have a charger than can charge any car battery pack from 12V to 144V car EV pack (6/12V batteries in series/parallel) using 120V AC as source. Is that feasible by modifying this somehow? The commerical units are available of Bedini design, but for $1300!

Bottom line, yes you could, But all your costs for research and builds, not to mention all your time spent, you would soon see that it would cost more and your results probably wouldnt be as good.

Thank you.

You're welcome, good luck with your build.

Sephiroth
09-01-2008, 07:59 AM
e. What is the capacitor type (ceramic, electrolytic/etc.) of 3.3 and 1 micro Farad ?

You can try various caps. Plans state 3.3uF (microfarads) 600v cap. Pull apart an old CFL, there is one in there around those ratings. Can use higher capacitance caps too.

Just as a quick note many people are having better success using high farad caps and apparently this is what John used in his Monopole that ran indefinatly.

See this thread...
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2450-conservation-charge-violated.html

There may still be something to charging low farad caps to high voltage. But so far everyone I know is having better success with the other configuration.

theremart
09-01-2008, 10:51 AM
Just as a quick note many people are having better success using high farad caps and apparently this is what John used in his Monopole that ran indefinatly.

See this thread...
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2450-conservation-charge-violated.html

There may still be something to charging low farad caps to high voltage. But so far everyone I know is having better success with the other configuration.

How big do you recommend?

Thanks!

theremart
09-01-2008, 11:06 AM
hmmm. Mart I have had no trouble running a solidstate on 24v. I had to replace the mj3055 transistor to a MLJ21194 as it was over heating, but never had any problems with the h11d1.

Something that may or may not help is this. Use a really thin wire on the output of the h11d1. The thinner it is the less current it will flow. Use really thick wire from the negative terminal to the anode of the SCR, and from the cathode to the cap. the h1's NPN is only rated for 500ma I think, it shouldnt be getting hot, especially if the current had a lower resistance path to travel.

Check all your pins, ive never had one heat up???

Thanks for those tips...

I am running a slightly modified version that was approved by JB. The specs in the book are not quite right....

I will send you a private message...

Sephiroth
09-01-2008, 01:49 PM
How big do you recommend?

Thanks!

I believe John's 60 day monopole was using around 250,000uf...

I have tried 1,000uf up to 160,000uf and the larger capacity did make a difference.

But I am still wondering whether there is something about the high voltage caps... the formulas on the thread I linked to predict that the transfer of energy will be less efficient in high voltage caps, but if they are discharged in the right way I think they may produce some interesting effects. I think this mainly because of tesla's patents except he wasn't using high voltage discharge to charge batteries...

Gauss
09-02-2008, 12:08 PM
Hi,

I am new here and need to find a bifilar coil for the Bedini SS oscillator. Is there somewhere I can buy it or is someone out there interested in selling me some? I am also interested in buying the transistor and the diodes in his circuit. Thanks in advance.

gmeat
09-02-2008, 07:33 PM
Hi,

I am new here and need to find a bifilar coil for the Bedini SS oscillator. Is there somewhere I can buy it or is someone out there interested in selling me some? I am also interested in buying the transistor and the diodes in his circuit. Thanks in advance.


Hi Guass,


Welcome to the forum,Here's a link that carries all of the parts your looking for.Or you can try your local electronics stores or the internet to find what you need.Hope this helps:peaceflag: .

Truth In Heart CREDIT CARD ORDERING CENTER (http://rpmgt.org/order.html)

-Gary

theremart
09-03-2008, 01:23 AM
hmmm. Mart I have had no trouble running a solidstate on 24v. I had to replace the mj3055 transistor to a MLJ21194 as it was over heating, but never had any problems with the h11d1.

Something that may or may not help is this. Use a really thin wire on the output of the h11d1. The thinner it is the less current it will flow. Use really thick wire from the negative terminal to the anode of the SCR, and from the cathode to the cap. the h1's NPN is only rated for 500ma I think, it shouldnt be getting hot, especially if the current had a lower resistance path to travel.

Check all your pins, ive never had one heat up???

Replaced the wires today did seem to help, but 555 still getting mighty warm at 18V .8 Amp. Checked pins.

But, battery charging MUCH better now.... :)

ldissing
09-03-2008, 05:23 PM
In my experience (I've been doing this stuff for awhile), it is difficult to charge a really large capacitor with the SCR after the transistor. If there is too much current (and the battery is too small to accept it), then the SCR will never shut off. I've tried increasing the voltage at the source to make it charge the cap faster, but then the spikes have enough current that the SCR will not shut off, so it doesn't work as expected.

However, if you place the SCR first, then the SCR cathode to the transistor base, it will work the same way, but the SCR will shut off correctly, because it is being driven by the H11D1 shown in the schematic on page 1 of this thread. Therefore, you can charge the cap either slowly with a 12V setup (or faster with a faster oscillation), or you can increase the voltage on the front end to 24V or so, and charge it faster as well. This allows for a decrease in the time to charge/discharge the big cap.

Anyway, it works better for me, as I've only been able to achieve static charges even with big caps when the SCR is after the transistor. It seems to work better with the transistor after the SCR for me.

Because the SCR is a high voltage device, this method should not be utilized for charging caps to voltages above the rating of the transistor (or you may fry the transistor). It will work for the big caps at 2-3 volts above the charging (secondary) battery.


L

ren
09-06-2008, 03:49 AM
Thanks, I might give this a go. Aarons solidstate had an NPN instead of a SCR:thumbsup:

theremart
09-06-2008, 10:42 PM
I am happy ! :blowout:

I am seeing changes in my batteries of what took months on the SSG now done in hours...

My 12 amp hour batteries are charging up to 16V in 4 - 9 Hours from 12.5V. After the first charge one of my first ones is holding under load at 13.20V ( only .25 Amp load ) but I have not seen these do that before. )

I am getting 80V pulses with the battery connected. Heat is gone from my 555, and opto. Why, I don't know I have not changed anything, I just don't want to touch it now !!

Sephiroth
09-06-2008, 11:03 PM
well done mart :D

Is that the first time those batteries have been charged via solid state or the ssg?

theremart
09-06-2008, 11:11 PM
I have had these batteries swapping in the battery swapper for about 4 weeks. Each running about 6 hours at a time charging the others 24 hours a day. I have charged them up to 15V before, but never ventured this far to 16V.

I had charged them before with this SS, however the 12V would not get them up to the full charge, and it took days to do a half way job.

I think the semi battery is next on my hit list.

ren
09-07-2008, 09:32 AM
good work Mart:thumbsup:


@ Idissing, you were right:thumbsup: The SCR doesnt fully close with high uF caps. I added a MJL21194, triggered by the SCR. I can hear the caps dumping now, where as before the clicking was only present on small uF caps.

Love your work.:cheers:

ldissing
09-08-2008, 12:16 PM
In my post I said I could only get a static charge. I believe that the reason for the static charge actually has nothing to do with the SCR, small caps, large caps or other set ups. It was just the time it takes and the voltage it takes for it to work properly.

This post is a little awkward, because it contains multiple things, so I hope you can follow me. I'm not the best at instructions or conveying my ideas.

This is the scenario...I buy a 5 Ah motorcycle battery and I don't charge it with anything but the SSG (because I was told that it could charge it just fine with the SSG from the guys @ yahoo monopole3 group). I can get it to 12.9 V in as little as 5 minutes after a bunch of charge cycles. But, I can only get about 1:45 minutes of actual power out of the battery at C20 rate. Sounds like a static charge to me. The resting voltage after a couple of minutes was 12.76, which I figure for a wet lead acid battery is close to 100% full.

So, I charge it again to 12.9 and let it sit over night. The voltage goes down to 12.5 volts, basically where it was when I started. There is no real charge there, it is static, bogus.

So, I'm really thinking that this is all just a bunch or hocus pocus and lies. So I disconnect the cap charging and do the SSG basic hook up again, but this time I say...let's charge it above 12.9, the battery isn't charging anyway, so the battery is useless and I surely will not actually damage it. I let it charge to 13.27 V. And I just let it rest. It comes down to 12.63. Ah, some real charge this time. I discharge at the C20 and I get 3 minutes of C20 power. So, I put it on to charge again, and let it go to 13.7. I let it rest, it comes down to 12.8 volts and holds. I haven't completed doing this a bunch of times, but I think the moral of the story, is if it shows an increase in voltage and the battery is in good condition, then it isn't necessarily a static charge...it just hasn't been on the charger long enough.

I know this thread is about solid state chargers. Bedini says that high voltage is the key, and the solid state will do that, I agree. I believe he also says that it has to have a little current at the right time. He doesn't say when that current is needed...I don't know why.

So, with the original schematic and the SCR last, I have a thought or two. With high uF caps, if the SCR never shuts off, then that means there is some current going through there all the time, and some of those high voltage spikes are going through at the same time as well. Perhaps this is why higher uF caps charge somewhat better, because the high voltage is married with current. Maybe the SCR isn't actually supposed to shut off completely all the time. Maybe it is a function of what current the battery can handle. The SCR behaves differently with different batteries on the back end. Perhaps I just didn't give it enough time and a high enough voltage for it to charge this way. I was trying to NOT damage the battery by taking it above 12.9 volts, but this will only generate a static charge, so I need to let it go to 13.7 at least for a while. Now that it has had a "real" charge, perhaps it will not need as high a voltage to get it to rest at 12.8....testing and learning continues.

That 555 timer circuit is interesting, because when it goes high, the SCR turns on and supposedly shuts off when the current is gone. (Bearden says it is negative current or negative energy). In my oscope, it does not always shut completely off while the 555 is high (OR LOW), depending on the charging battery on the back side. Maybe this is intentional and they just haven't told us all this. Maybe I'm an idiot too, that is always possible.

L

theremart
09-08-2008, 02:51 PM
In my post I said I could only get a static charge. I This is the scenario...I buy a 5 Ah motorcycle battery and I don't charge it with anything but the SSG (because I was told that it could charge it just fine with the SSG from the guys @ yahoo monopole3 group). I can get it to 12.9 V in as little as 5 minutes after a bunch of charge cycles. But, I can only get about 1:45 minutes of actual power out of the battery at C20 rate. Sounds like a static charge to me. The resting voltage after a couple of minutes was 12.76, which I figure for a wet lead acid battery is close to 100% full.
L

Yes I fully agree with you there is a big difference between charging voltage, and the battery at rest, and the battery under load.

The test that I like to do after I charge a battery is to put a 1 amp load ( or one that matches the c20 rate of the battery ) and then test the battery voltage. This seems to be a much more accurate way of measuring. Better yet do a timed test of how long it will hold up to said voltage under load. This will give you the real energy that is in the battery, and will clear away any fluff charge.

I am finding that a moderate amount of amps ( 1 amp ) with the SS is giving me SOLID charging. I am blown away by the difference of how the batteries are holding up under load. I should have load testing soon.

I found the source of my heat problem. When I was putting the unit back into case and securing the wires there was a short circuit at the 555 that was giving me problems, this has been corrected and hurray it is working..

I am charging my Semi battery now and after 3 hours it is up from 12.20 to 12.60 with 24V .8 amp input. Normally it takes about 1 day to do that amount of charging before...

ldissing
09-09-2008, 12:52 PM
Thanks, I might give this a go. Aarons solidstate had an NPN instead of a SCR:thumbsup:

Thanks...I think you are right. My observation was from the FEG book schematics.


That is probably why the large cap worked for Aaron so well. He could actually charge the cap and discharge it correctly with the NPN instead of the SCR. I just wanted people reading the FEG book to know that large caps cause the SCR to always be ON if the SCR is after the transistor (and, of course, it matters what size the battery is too).. Switching the SCR and transistor makes it work better for bigger caps.

L

ldissing
09-09-2008, 12:56 PM
I am happy ! :blowout:

I am seeing changes in my batteries of what took months on the SSG now done in hours...



I just want to make sure that people know that it wasn't because of the SCR/transistor swap that your batteries are charging better. It was because of your wires and 555 circuit mods, I think. Your post is after my post, so people might get the wrong impression.


L

iret
09-12-2008, 01:45 AM
Hi All,
I did a setup similar to the FEG schematic. Yes, I finally got a copy of the book. Tried to charge a Fujiya 12V 60Ah lead acid battery which was completely discharge on purpose. Shorted the battery with a 12V 5W light bulb, the filament does not even glows. I then proceed to charge it up with Bedini Osc for like 1 minute and shorted the battery with the same light bulb again and it lighted up to full brigthness. BUT, the charge does NOT hold for long. According to the FEG book, it suppose to hold the charge. What's wrong ?

theremart
09-12-2008, 01:56 AM
Hi All,
I did a setup similar to the FEG schematic. Yes, I finally got a copy of the book. Tried to charge a Fujiya 12V 60Ah lead acid battery which was completely discharge on purpose. Shorted the battery with a 12V 5W light bulb, the filament does not even glows. I then proceed to charge it up with Bedini Osc for like 1 minute and shorted the battery with the same light bulb again and it lighted up to full brigthness. BUT, the charge does NOT hold for long. According to the FEG book, it suppose to hold the charge. What's wrong ?

Input voltage? and amps?


I ran into the same thing, only with my 1000 amp hour Semi battery :) I charged it for 3 days when i went to pull off 5 amps it did not hold it for very long... was charged up to 14V.

I am thinking you have to build it bigger and stronger...

If you look at the manual for the chargers they sell you will get an idea of the range of voltage it should intake and output.

It does take several load / discharges, but I am not aware of where they say to totally discharge the battery in the book.

Thanks for sharing !

Shamus
09-12-2008, 02:30 AM
OK, since Jetijs posted #2 in then IROL thread (and Peter Lindemann said was already public knowledge), and #1 is publicly viewable by anyone who has access to the internet on the front of a certain well known Yahoo group, it doesn't take a whole lot to figure out how to combine the two. I know this will probably cause consternation to certain people, but hey, the information is already out there (and put out by those people)! Can we now stop pretending that it isn't? :)

I know #1 is patented but I dont know if #2 is (my guess: probably). In which case, again, this is public knowledge. If this is too controversial then I'll gladly remove this post; otherwise, nothing to see here. :wall: ;)

iret
09-12-2008, 02:36 AM
Hi Mart,

Input voltage? and amps?

Current setup is at 24V, two 12V 7.1Ah battery series together.

If you look at the manual for the chargers they sell you will get an idea of the range of voltage it should intake and output.
Which chargers manual are you referring to ?


It does take several load / discharges, but I am not aware of where they say to totally discharge the battery in the book.
I thought that if there is a definate charge retention it should shows up on a really dead battery(Complete discharge, Charge it up and discharge again). Maybe I just have not zap the battery enough, it's brand new. But did notice that if I charged it for like 5 minutes with Bedini Osc, I can roughly run that bulb for like 7 minutes.

Shamus
09-12-2008, 03:34 AM
I think that if you've completely discharged your battery, you'll need to charge it for more than a few minutes if you're expecting it to hold any charge. :) Also, doing complete discharges are a sure way to kill your battery. Doing that may work for a time, but batteries just don't like being abused. ;)

iret
09-12-2008, 03:51 AM
Hi Shamus,

Going to charge it longer period this coming weekend.

Also, doing complete discharges are a sure way to kill your battery

I was trying to reproduce a heavily sulfated battery in a controlled environment. Does this fit the bill ? According to JB, the Bedini osc supposed to be able to revive completely dead/heavily sulfated batteries...no ?

Anybody manage to reproduce the battery cap neon bulb glowing effect ? Is is RF anyway ?

Cheers

Shamus
09-12-2008, 01:04 PM
Yes, the Bedini circuits can revive heavily sulfated batteries that can't be charged anymore by conventional methods. I did this with an old 12V lead-acid battery that had sat in a lawnmower for well over a year. But I also abused it by taking it down below 10V and eventually it wouldn't hold a charge anymore. So you need to be nice to your batteries. :)

If you want to test sulfation removal, you might want to go find an old battery somewhere that is in otherwise good condition--i.e., the Bedini process can't fix warped plates, low electrolyte levels, corroded posts, etc. ;)

ldissing
09-12-2008, 01:35 PM
SOMEONE PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM INCORRECT. My wife says that I'm always wrong, so why not you too.

I have been looking at lots of stuff on the internet. I do not believe that it is all voltage. I would love that to be the case, but my tests do not show this as the case.

This is my scenario for this post....A tri-fillar wound coil. 2 20AWG and 1 24AWG trigger. I apply power to one and use the 24 AWG for a trigger, it is a solid state Bedini style charger. I'm using 24V for an input voltage, so the voltage spikes are really big over 500V. You can use a capacitor on the other 20 AWG and capacitive discharge, or hook the battery up through diodes. You could also pull voltage off of a diode on the power wire as in the SSG circuit. I am NOT using a capacitor to charge in this example (I did hook up a cap briefly (with the batteriss) and it only charged to 20V, - without the batteries, it will charge to over 100V in two pulses - because there wasn't enough current to allow it to charge higher IMHO.)

I was reading from another site about the Water Fuel Cell by Meyers and some of the replications. Again, some say it is all voltage which is what I believe Bedini also says although I could be wrong again. I will guarantee that the solid state will generate some very fine bubbles in tap water with no electrolyte and quite a lot of them...Mr. Bedini also said you could do this...what is it doing in a battery, the SAME thing.

So, this guy says, just put multiple diodes on that high voltage pulse and you can hook up even more cells in the WFC. So I think this would "fractionate the pulse", splitting whatever small amount of current there is, thus creating a voltage pulse with even less current, which is what Meyer's AND Bedini say they are doing. Currentless voltage...ah, the holy grail, or is it?

So, I put 4 diodes on that third wire, one to each of three different batteries and another one to my water cell. It does indeed create some bubbles in the water, but not NEARLY as many. It does charge the batteries or at least two of them increase in voltage, but the third doesn't change in voltage at all (or even decreases because it has a bit of static charge on it already) and it is a battery which is only a 5 Ah battery. If I take of the big battery, then the 5Ah battery will start increasing in voltage. If I take the smallest battery off, the 5 Ah battery will increase in voltage.

If it was the case that only voltage was needed then you would not have to build bigger and bigger machines with more and more coils. You would just put more and more diodes on that voltage pulse and charge the world. You NEED some current to charge batteries (or caps) and so does the WFC to produce a huge amount of HHO. I'm sure there is a point where you are wasting energy too, if you don't have enough devices to accept that voltage/current.

If your battery is too big for the device, then it will charge, but slowly because there isn't enough current. If the battery is not big enough, then you will create static charging because the voltage/current is too high for the battery and the voltage must increase beyond "normal" for it to have a full charge. It is a balancing act not to waste the "free" energy you are capturing.

I'm continuing in the testing process, but it does not seem to be magical. It is capturing what is normally wasted by most conventional circuits, and it will charge batteries faster and help when the plates are getting "bad", but you need some current in that high voltage pulse or you will not charge capacitors or batteries or create HHO in a WFC, IMHO.

So why did the cap charge to 20V, instead of only a few volts above the voltage of the batteries? Did it charge, because the batteries did not accept the small current until it was over 20V thus, allowing the cap to charge? I'm not sure about this and did not put an amp meter on that cap.

Any comments are appreciated.

L

Sephiroth
09-12-2008, 03:08 PM
This is my scenario for this post....A tri-fillar wound coil. 2 20AWG and 1 24AWG trigger. I apply power to one and use the 24 AWG for a trigger, it is a solid state Bedini style charger. I'm using 24V for an input voltage, so the voltage spikes are really big over 500V. You can use a capacitor on the other 20 AWG and capacitive discharge, or hook the battery up through diodes. You could also pull voltage off of a diode on the power wire as in the simple SSG circuit. I am NOT using a capacitor to charge in this example (I did hook up a cap briefly (with the battereis) and it only charged to 20V, because there wasn't enough current to allow it to charge higher IMHO.)


Not sure why your caps are only charging to 20v... mine will charge up to the peak of the spike (around 180v)

I don't fully agree with your post, though I understand where you are coming from.

Can't comment on using the flyback for fraturing water as that is not what bedini systems are designed for.

Though it seems the main confusion is that most people are assuming the oscillator is supposed to be doing something that it isn't. In a standard configuration I don't think we get the high voltage low current pulses that are associated with cold electricity though it is capable of generating this form of energy as well.

It is imporatant to remember that the "free energy" is generated in/by the batteries... not Bedini's circuits.

John has said time and time agian that these circuits are NOT overunity. They merely shuttle energy around the system.

However, this method of charging changes both the chemical and physical properties of the batteries until they reach a condition where, when exposed to this method of charging, charge much much faster than with convetional methods and the batteries do this by manipulating the zero point field inside the battery. In a way they charge themselves and there have been reports of batteries self charging once they have been taken off the energizer.

Hooking up a fresh battery that has never been exposed to this method of charging will show you what is expected by conventional physics, but over time that changes.

I do agree that there needs to be more discussion about the physics behind it because I don't think we have the full picture quite yet. There is an old thread on here called something like "Bedini SSG Secrets" that should possibly be resurected :angel:

ldissing
09-12-2008, 04:04 PM
Not sure why your caps are only charging to 20v... mine will charge up to the peak of the spike (around 180v)

Can't comment on using the flyback for fraturing water as that is not what bedini systems are designed for.

However, this method of charging changes both the chemical and physical properties of the batteries until they reach a condition where, when exposed to this method of charging, charge much much faster than with convetional methods and the batteries do this by manipulating the zero point field inside the battery. In a way they charge themselves and there have been reports of batteries self charging once they have been taken off the energizer.

:angel:

I mentioned that it will charge over the cap (on the output side) IF the batteries are not connected on the output side. I was not utilizing the 555 oscillator in this particular setup, so I was not "trying" to get the cap to charge up by holding off the discharge, I was not discharging it at all. I can get a 1uF cap to charge to over 400 volts in milliseconds with this setup.

The question is, is it true that the voltage ALONE does not charge the cap? If each output device, i.e. batteries and/or a capacitor are each hanging off that high voltage pulse with a diode for each device, then it should charge up to the same voltage it did without the batteries connected! Diodes are one way current devices and stop current from getting from the charging side to the input side, thus isolating those devices. Each of those devices are isolated from each other too...except ground...ah, maybe it is the ground.

Cold boiling? What is that, creating ion movement inside the battery. What does electrolysis do, recombine sulphic acid off plates back into the distilled water. What does WFC do, factionate hydrogen and oxygen. There are the same thing, but one has sulfuric acid in it. If you are doing high amp charging, then you are moving ions too, but in a high voltage/low current situation, you are creating a much smaller fractionization. If you can split normal water, then you can also do this in a battery. John Bedini said that you can split water while you charge a battery. I've done that, and I can see the very very fine bubbles INSIDE the opaque battery case. That is what is happening inside the battery, just like with the WFC.

I did not say it was an over unity device, it clearly isn't.

It IS the case that an inductor will try to stop current from passing through it, thus creating a HIGH voltage spike before allowing that current through. JB has said that it isn't the magnets doing anything either, just the trigger mechanism. Otherwise, you could not create a solid-state charger without a spinning wheel. It is the inductor, or in this case, a bi-filar or tri-filar coil/inductor that is creating the spike which supposedly allows the Heavyside (sp) flow on the outside of the conductors. Does it do this? Maybe the oscillation rate has to be faster, JB says about 10000 kHz, although I think he probably meant 10000 Hz. Maybe it is 10000 kHz frequency will tell - if I can get it there. Maybe my wires are not big enough to manifest this energy?

Unless the experiment was faulty because all the ground wires were hooked together, the question is, "Did I fractionate the current (or voltage spike) by using multiple diodes?" I think the answer is in the post about what the different batteries and the cap were doing. The cap did not charge the same with batteries connected, i.e. only 20V on the cap instead of 100's of volts. Without the batteries, it did charge to 100's of volts. So, did the cap accept the voltage and charge without current? Only partially, only 20V, so the cap will NOT charge without the current to 100's of volts. The proof is in the experiment. Saying that a cap will charge without current may be true if the frequency is high enough, and I can test way higher frequencies. As the freq is increased with the solid state oscillator, though, the voltage spikes will decrease in size I believe.


Thanks again,

L

mrbreau
09-12-2008, 06:22 PM
(snip)

There is an old thread on here called something like "Bedini SSG Secrets" that should possibly be resurected :angel:

Here is the link to that topic; http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1438-bedinis-ssg-secrets.html

I agree, there should be more discussion into the physics of the SG. :thumbsup:

Warren

..

ldissing
09-14-2008, 03:05 PM
Has anyone tried to create a 4 wire coil or even bigger and only apply power to one wire? Utilize the excess wires for charging capacitors? I say capacitors, because they will charge up to the voltage spike over time and the voltage difference can be seen much faster. My theory is that having the ground wires connected together in my previous experiment caused the outputs to interact. Why can't the grounds be connected in the normal SSG, because you have closed the loop. So, if this is true, then connecting all of the grounds together off of one wire is also closing the loop on the outputs, which will not allow the radiant to manifest across ALL output devices.

The batteries did charge but slower. The cap did charge, but to a smaller peak voltage when connected with the batteries. Perhaps this is an answer....any experimental results with something like this?

Thanks,

L

theremart
09-14-2008, 05:03 PM
I have done 3 tests with the solid state SSG, and I am getting fluffy charging.

The first test I did was with a semi battery. I had it on for over 50 hours and I charged the battery to over 14V. When I applied a 5 amp draw on the battery it was only able to stand up to that for 7 min. :(

When I put on the 12 amp battery and charged it with the SS, it climbed up to 15.70 V however on the load test it did very very poorly as compared to how it was charged with the neo magnets before :(.... ( see attached graph the two small lines are with the solid state charge )

The charge with the Solid state was 24 V at .8 amp. I now know that the voltage reading on the battery is not what the battery can do...

I am perplexed as to know how to get the best load test of the batteries as I really thought the solid state would help the load tests.

Mart

EgmQC
09-14-2008, 05:37 PM
I have done 3 tests with the solid state SSG, and I am getting fluffy charging.

The first test I did was with a semi battery. I had it on for over 50 hours and I charged the battery to over 14V. When I applied a 5 amp draw on the battery it was only able to stand up to that for 7 min. :(

When I put on the 12 amp battery and charged it with the SS, it climbed up to 15.70 V however on the load test it did very very poorly as compared to how it was charged with the neo magnets before :(.... ( see attached graph the two small lines are with the solid state charge )

The charge with the Solid state was 24 V at .8 amp. I now know that the voltage reading on the battery is not what the battery can do...

I am perplexed as to know how to get the best load test of the batteries as I really thought the solid state would help the load tests.

Mart

Hi Theremart,

What was the frequency of the spike on your SS SSG? ive got about the same result as you with a spike frequency over 1khz.

Best Regards,
Eric

theremart
09-14-2008, 05:51 PM
Hi Theremart,

What was the frequency of the spike on your SS SSG? ive got about the same result as you with a spike frequency over 1khz.

Best Regards,
Eric

80V spikes at 1 1/2 milla seconds ( the setting of one on the scope ) I am still learning how to use the scope correctly.

It seems from looking at the r-charge site they do about 16 cycles to get the energy up to full amount for load. Perhaps that is what I am missing... but to compare a test that I had done before with the battery it seems it is getting worse for wear, not better. What I am missing from the book is the input voltage and the time range to get the desired result of charging two batteries at once that will handle a load.

EgmQC
09-14-2008, 06:06 PM
80V spikes at 1 1/2 milla seconds ( the setting of one on the scope ) I am still learning how to use the scope correctly.

It seems from looking at the r-charge site they do about 16 cycles to get the energy up to full amount for load. Perhaps that is what I am missing... but to compare a test that I had done before with the battery it seems it is getting worse for wear, not better. What I am missing from the book is the input voltage and the time range to get the desired result of charging two batteries at once that will handle a load.

1.5ms should be ok , its 0.665khz. Maybe your coil is too big and didnt get the time to build a strong field ? (just a idea). Try to set the frequency under 400hz if you want to test my idea, the result should be better at lower frequency.


Best Regards,
Eric

theremart
09-15-2008, 03:10 PM
1.5ms should be ok , its 0.665khz. Maybe your coil is too big and didnt get the time to build a strong field ? (just a idea). Try to set the frequency under 400hz if you want to test my idea, the result should be better at lower frequency.


Best Regards,
Eric

You may have a point there, my coil is 20 gauge wire, and it is a full spool 3 twisted pairs.

Think I will order some guage recommended by the book, but I don't know how much to order for 350 turns? How many feet is that?

EgmQC
09-15-2008, 04:08 PM
You may have a point there, my coil is 20 gauge wire, and it is a full spool 3 twisted pairs.

Think I will order some guage recommended by the book, but I don't know how much to order for 350 turns? How many feet is that?

Hi Theremart,

look at this site, it give the lbs per feets for different gauge.
Magnet Wire (http://www.powerwerx.com/product.asp?ProdID=2094)

Best Regards,
Eric

Edit: Its about 190 feet if i remember for 350 turn.

theremart
09-27-2008, 04:00 PM
Well,

I replaced both the opto, and the 555 timer, and I learned a couple of tricks.

Put a nite light to the capacitor, this helps to diminish the 100V + charge that is stored there. I don't like discharging that the hard way ! :rolleyes: This also allows you to see visually the amount of electricity the circuit is outputing.


I swapped the coil for the 450 turn one, and after getting this, it is now staying at 25-27 V in the cap over the charge battery. It seems to be doing MUCH better. I believe I had miss wired my 555 timer before because I had the pin numbering wrong. ( So much fun remembering the order of the pins when you turn it upside down ) I ended up making a diagrahm of both the pins up right and upside down which help me sort out the pin much easier.

Charging up another battery now, look forward to see if the load tests does any better.

Mart

EgmQC
09-27-2008, 07:24 PM
Well,

I replaced both the opto, and the 555 timer, and I learned a couple of tricks.

Put a nite light to the capacitor, this helps to diminish the 100V + charge that is stored there. I don't like discharging that the hard way ! :rolleyes: This also allows you to see visually the amount of electricity the circuit is outputing.


I swapped the coil for the 450 turn one, and after getting this, it is now staying at 25-27 V in the cap over the charge battery. It seems to be doing MUCH better. I believe I had miss wired my 555 timer before because I had the pin numbering wrong. ( So much fun remembering the order of the pins when you turn it upside down ) I ended up making a diagrahm of both the pins up right and upside down which help me sort out the pin much easier.

Charging up another battery now, look forward to see if the load tests does any better.

Mart

Hi Mart,

Whats the volt rating of your cap ? im scared a bit to try the 555 setup, i have some 60v 30000uf but i dont know what can happen if hooked to the SS SSG with more than 200V spike.

Best Regards,
Eric

theremart
09-27-2008, 07:32 PM
Hi Mart,

Whats the volt rating of your cap ? im scared a bit to try the 555 setup, i have some 60v 30000uf but i dont know what can happen if hooked to the SS SSG with more than 200V spike.

Best Regards,
Eric

500V 330 Uf, the one specified in the book.

I believe I now have the exact Bedini setup, may need tuned now.

Sephiroth
09-27-2008, 07:58 PM
Hi Mart,

Whats the volt rating of your cap ? im scared a bit to try the 555 setup, i have some 60v 30000uf but i dont know what can happen if hooked to the SS SSG with more than 200V spike.

Best Regards,
Eric

as long as you start with rather fast cap dumping (around every second) a 30,000uf 60v cap shouldn't be in any danger from a standard sized SSG.

but as a precaution just in case the cap pulser isn't working properly you can put a neon across the terminals and it should prevent the cap getting dangerously over 60v. I have had 40,000uf caps rated at 60v "accidentally" charge over a hundred and they stayed in one peice. Though I can't gaurentee that every capacitor can withstand being charged so high over their rated voltage.

To begin with, try putting a bulb in series with the charging battery just to be sure it is pulsing and carefully watch the voltage! With 30,00uf you should have plenty of time to react if it is obvious that the pulser is not operating.

EgmQC
09-27-2008, 08:18 PM
as long as you start with rather fast cap dumping (around every second) a 30,000uf 60v cap shouldn't be in any danger from a standard sized SSG.

but as a precaution just in case the cap pulser isn't working properly you can put a neon across the terminals and it should prevent the cap getting dangerously over 60v. I have had 40,000uf caps rated at 60v "accidentally" charge over a hundred and they stayed in one peice. Though I can't gaurentee that every capacitor can withstand being charged so high over their rated voltage.

To begin with, try putting a bulb in series with the charging battery just to be sure it is pulsing and carefully watch the voltage! With 30,00uf you should have plenty of time to react if it is obvious that the pulser is not operating.

Thank Sephiroth for your advice. I have a 6.5KV 0.25uF Laser pulse cap, should it be better or higher capacitance cap is better ?

Best Regards,
Eric

Sephiroth
09-27-2008, 08:30 PM
Hi Eric,

Every experiment I have done with a cap pulser has shown far better results with high capacity caps pulsed at low voltage.

This thread goes into some interesting theory/math on cap pulsing :)

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2450-conservation-charge-violated.html

EgmQC
09-28-2008, 12:53 AM
Hi All,

I have a nice question, When the SSG send directly the radiant to the battery, the battery will transform it to usuable energy(by getting it from the vacuum) . With a capacitor setup, the radiant spike is sent to the cap and then the battery.

My question is, What is inside the capacitor ?

if we see for exemple 16 volt on a 30000uf cap before it dump it to the battery, that mean there 3.84 joules sent to the battery.

There's radiant in the cap or its transformed already in usuable energy by the capacitor? if he is already transfomed that mean we only have to feed a cap at 16v and dump at X Frequency to get the same effect?

Best Regards,
Eric

theremart
09-29-2008, 02:17 PM
Results of load test attached

Green -> results of charging battery with neo for 6 hours. 3.2 amp hours

Red -> Results of first SS test .5 amp hour

Black -> Charged battery up to 15.34V with Solid state Bedini as per book as stated. then discharged. only 1 amp hour


http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8562/3rdtestofsolidstatetj0.th.jpg (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3rdtestofsolidstatetj0.jpg)http://img100.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

Sephiroth
09-29-2008, 02:25 PM
Hi Mart,

Those results don't look optimistic. :(

How long did you leave the battery to rest before doing the load tests?

How high were you charging the cap above the charging voltage?

theremart
09-29-2008, 02:41 PM
Hi Mart,

Those results don't look optimistic. :(

How long did you leave the battery to rest before doing the load tests?

How high were you charging the cap above the charging voltage?

I left the battery on for over 12 hours on the newly configured solid state charger. Input of 12V at .8 amp. for charge.

Then it rested for about 6 hours. Since I wanted to do a test in the morning I then again put it on the SS charge at 8V at .5 amp for 12 hours so it was at 15.34 in the morning I ran the load test.

The charge in the cap is 25V. Not optimal for fastest charge, but should be enough to give me punch out of the battery I would think.


I am now charging the battery again with my ssg with neo's to get another idea of where the battery is.

Sephiroth
09-29-2008, 03:03 PM
Do you have any larger caps you can substitute your 330uf for?

theremart
09-29-2008, 03:19 PM
Do you have any larger caps you can substitute your 330uf for?

I don't, but I will be VERY VERY ticked if the cap specified by the book is the wrong one! I was told not to modify any of the circuits of the book. that they work as is!

Sephiroth
09-29-2008, 03:53 PM
I haven't seen the schematic in the book but I hear the pins on the opto isolator are the wrong way around so some modification may be needed :D

All my tests are showing better charge with high capacity caps (or more importantly discharging the caps at low voltage). There appears to be a sweet spot with cap pulsing as well... too high a voltage then too much energy will be lost as heat, too low a voltage and the pulse won't be sharp enough for our needs. I'm not sure how pulse frequency effects it but it may have a part to play as well. As Aaron has suggested, I don't think you want it to be higher than 3 volts above the charging voltage.

I have only heard one report of good results with low farad caps. I think the link is on here already so I'll try and fish it out.

Sephiroth
09-29-2008, 05:22 PM
http://radiant.100free.com/zpe_bedini_solid.html

Here is the link. He uses 10uf which is astonishing. :suprise:

So are his results :)

theremart
09-29-2008, 07:14 PM
http://radiant.100free.com/zpe_bedini_solid.html

Here is the link. He uses 10uf which is astonishing. :suprise:

So are his results :)

-----------------
"I burnt a few potentiometer to look for the sweet spot of the assembly oscillator - capacitor.
I adjusted the charging/discharging cycle of the capacitor at around 2 seconds of charging and 1/3 second for discharging. Resistor values: R1 = 100 Ohm ; R2 = 34 kOhm ( 50 kOhm potentiometer)
In two second the Cap go to arouns 130 Volts, and then is completely discharged in the battery "


130V to the battery, Yes I could build up to that if the timing was 2 sec easy.

sinergicus
09-29-2008, 11:10 PM
Hi to all...

Because You have much more experiences and Knowledge than me ,I want to ask your opinion ...
I see all around ,everybody trying to replicate some versions of Bedini motors,but all are just toys proving,more or less,some principles...

With this toys cannot power a house....Or ,I suppose this is your goal in fact;to make some practical device at a big scale to power a house ;like Jim Watson unit for example.

Nobody tried to replicate first Bedini motor?I understand is not so complicated;Jim Watson has built it.John Bedini has mentioned this can be build without electronics;I understand ,electronics cannot handle big power;
Mr Bedini said in his book free energy generation:
With three brushes and a commutator you can do away with all the electronics and handle 100 times the power back to the battery-no transistor to fail,no relays to stick,no resistor to burn up...



What you think is worthy to give attention and time to this kind of Bedini motor?
Can somebody help with information about how can be built at a bigger scale?


Thanks
Mike

theremart
09-30-2008, 12:39 AM
Hi to all...

Because You have much more experiences and Knowledge than me ,I want to ask your opinion ...
I see all around ,everybody trying to replicate some versions of Bedini motors,but all are just toys proving,more or less,some principles...

With this toys cannot power a house....Or ,I suppose this is your goal in fact;to make some practical device at a big scale to power a house ;like Jim Watson unit for example.

Nobody tried to replicate first Bedini motor?I understand is not so complicated;Jim Watson has built it.John Bedini has mentioned this can be build without electronics;I understand ,electronics cannot handle big power;
Mr Bedini said in his book free energy generation:
With three brushes and a commutator you can do away with all the electronics and handle 100 times the power back to the battery-no transistor to fail,no relays to stick,no resistor to burn up...



What you think is worthy to give attention and time to this kind of Bedini motor?
Can somebody help with information about how can be built at a bigger scale?


Thanks
Mike

Hi Mike,

You should start another thread as you are starting a topic that is a good question, but off track for this thread. Good question, but good to stay on topic in threads..

Cheers.:thumbsup:

theremart
09-30-2008, 12:51 AM
Not a good day for testing results..

:(

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7202/4thtestofsolidstateyt2.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4thtestofsolidstateyt2.jpg)http://img150.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

I charged the battery with the Neos, and the battery put out only 1.34 amp hour as compared to the 1 amp hour it did with the Solid state. It seems this battery has gotten worse over time.

I am going to charge another battery with the Solid state, and see if it does any better.

EgmQC
09-30-2008, 01:50 AM
Not a good day for testing results..

:(

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7202/4thtestofsolidstateyt2.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4thtestofsolidstateyt2.jpg)http://img150.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

I charged the battery with the Neos, and the battery put out only 1.34 amp hour as compared to the 1 amp hour it did with the Solid state. It seems this battery has gotten worse over time.

I am going to charge another battery with the Solid state, and see if it does any better.

Hi theremart,
What's the C20 of your battery and your load amp during the discharge test ?

Eric

theremart
09-30-2008, 02:17 AM
Hi theremart,
What's the C20 of your battery and your load amp during the discharge test ?

Eric

The battery is 12 amp hours.

So... 12/20 = .6 amps would be the c20 rating

I am pulling .75 amp from the battery on the load tests.

Now, as i understand it the c20 is for discharge for being used at the primary driving battery on the SSG or SS.

Thanks for your input Eric.

Mart

theremart
09-30-2008, 02:28 AM
Opps I missed this from Bedini, I should be using only .6 even on discharge..

from :
John Bedini: SG Collected Posts (PDF) | MERLib.org (http://merlib.org/?q=node/5836)

---------------------------------------------------------
I run everything on the C20 rate even on discharge, this is very important if you are to succeed.
If Sterling with a .6 watt motor is charging his batteries and also running the wheel where is the energy coming from? Think about this, a .6 watt motor running a big wheel with rocks in the bearings plus the wind drag and anything else that could be wrong, but it is charging it's batteries and doing work. But Sterlings motor is only a .6 watt motor, how could that be, a .6 watts could not even drive a fly up the wall let alone keep that wheel turning and charge the back batteries. As we have said all along the machine is a 4 to 1 machine, one battery in four batteries out charged. If Sterling inputs one 12 volt 4.2 amp hour battery and he charges four on the back and then connects all four together he would have 16.8 amp hour battery that he could take .84 amps for twenty hours, if this goes beyond the twenty hours, where did the extra energy come from? You can not hurt your batteries if you follow the C20 rate of discharge.
John

-------------------------

EgmQC
09-30-2008, 03:25 AM
Opps I missed this from Bedini, I should be using only .6 even on discharge..

from :
John Bedini: SG Collected Posts (PDF) | MERLib.org (http://merlib.org/?q=node/5836)

---------------------------------------------------------
I run everything on the C20 rate even on discharge, this is very important if you are to succeed.
If Sterling with a .6 watt motor is charging his batteries and also running the wheel where is the energy coming from? Think about this, a .6 watt motor running a big wheel with rocks in the bearings plus the wind drag and anything else that could be wrong, but it is charging it's batteries and doing work. But Sterlings motor is only a .6 watt motor, how could that be, a .6 watts could not even drive a fly up the wall let alone keep that wheel turning and charge the back batteries. As we have said all along the machine is a 4 to 1 machine, one battery in four batteries out charged. If Sterling inputs one 12 volt 4.2 amp hour battery and he charges four on the back and then connects all four together he would have 16.8 amp hour battery that he could take .84 amps for twenty hours, if this goes beyond the twenty hours, where did the extra energy come from? You can not hurt your batteries if you follow the C20 rate of discharge.
John

-------------------------

Hi theremart,

Ive got realy bad result when i was trying to do the test load with a inverter and a 5W Light. After like 30 unsuccessfull load test ive put a amp meter. The Inverter alone in idle mode took 300 mAmp , with the light that jumped to about 780 mAmp on a 8amp/h battery. As soon as i used the correct load my result got good as it should be, more power out than power in. Its why i asked you the question about your C20 and discharge. Ive read somewhere(i think its on Bedini_SG3) that we should use 80% of the amp rated to make the C20 rules, in my case (8/100)*80 = 6.4Amp/h, C20 = 6.4/20 = 320 mAmp.

Best Regards,
Eric

EgmQC
09-30-2008, 05:39 AM
Hi All,

I have a nice question, When the SSG send directly the radiant to the battery, the battery will transform it to usuable energy(by getting it from the vacuum) . With a capacitor setup, the radiant spike is sent to the cap and then the battery.

My question is, What is inside the capacitor ?

if we see for exemple 16 volt on a 30000uf cap before it dump it to the battery, that mean there 3.84 joules sent to the battery.

There's radiant in the cap or its transformed already in usuable energy by the capacitor? if he is already transfomed that mean we only have to feed a cap at 16v and dump at X Frequency to get the same effect?

Best Regards,
Eric

I finaly got my anwser from JB site: "Radiant currents are just like Tesla said a gas in nature , the transformation converter is the Capacitor." The Energy Pages Have (http://www.icehouse.net/john1/intro.html)

So there no Radiant dumped to the battery, just ordinary volt/current because it already transformed by the capacitor but what is realy wierd, Mr Bearden say the radiant need some impedance to suck some energy from the vacuum , i understand that for a battery but for a capacitor, its exactly the inverse of a battery for the impedance point of view, low impedance at start and high at the end. Anybody know (or have a theory) on how the transformation take place in the capacitor ?

Best Regards,
Eric

theremart
09-30-2008, 12:43 PM
Hi theremart,

Ive got realy bad result when i was trying to do the test load with a inverter and a 5W Light. After like 30 unsuccessfull load test ive put a amp meter. The Inverter alone in idle mode took 300 mAmp , with the light that jumped to about 780 mAmp on a 8amp/h battery. As soon as i used the correct load my result got good as it should be, more power out than power in. Its why i asked you the question about your C20 and discharge. Ive read somewhere(i think its on Bedini_SG3) that we should use 80% of the amp rated to make the C20 rules, in my case (8/100)*80 = 6.4Amp/h, C20 = 6.4/20 = 320 mAmp.

Best Regards,
Eric


I also found that using a digital meter to measure the amp draw on my inverter gave me bogus readings. You know when you watch Bedini in his videos he does the exact opposite he tells you to do, he swaps the batteries from front to back without an inverter.

Burned_NE2
09-30-2008, 02:37 PM
Hi theremart,

Ive got realy bad result when i was trying to do the test load with a inverter and a 5W Light. After like 30 unsuccessfull load test ive put a amp meter. The Inverter alone in idle mode took 300 mAmp , with the light that jumped to about 780 mAmp on a 8amp/h battery. As soon as i used the correct load my result got good as it should be, more power out than power in. Its why i asked you the question about your C20 and discharge. Ive read somewhere(i think its on Bedini_SG3) that we should use 80% of the amp rated to make the C20 rules, in my case (8/100)*80 = 6.4Amp/h, C20 = 6.4/20 = 320 mAmp.

Best Regards,
Eric

Hi EgmQC

Sorry to butt in but according to JB the C20 discharge is NOT "80% of the amp rated" but 20%. If you discharge the battery the "80% of the amp rated" you will kill it in no time.

To see the example that JB talked about see "18)The C/20 discharge rate." in the John Bedini: SG Collected Posts (PDF) | MERLib.org (http://merlib.org/?q=node/5836) that Theremart posted earlier.

Regards,
Paul

Sephiroth
09-30-2008, 03:14 PM
I think for smaller batteries he recommended use 80% of the c20 rate.

There is some good info on batteries in this pdf

http://freenrg.info/Bedini/SSG_STARTERS_GUIDE-Two.pdf

I found this to be a very good write up of the basics.

EgmQC
09-30-2008, 03:37 PM
Hi EgmQC

Sorry to butt in but according to JB the C20 discharge is NOT "80% of the amp rated" but 20%. If you discharge the battery the "80% of the amp rated" you will kill it in no time.

To see the example that JB talked about see "18)The C/20 discharge rate." in the John Bedini: SG Collected Posts (PDF) | MERLib.org (http://merlib.org/?q=node/5836) that Theremart posted earlier.

Regards,
Paul

Hi Paul,

When i wrote : "we should use 80% of the amp rated to make the C20 rules" , i mean 80% of the amp rated should be use to calculate the C/20, for exemple , a 10amp/h rated battery ,80% of 10amp is 8amp , so 8/20 = the C20 rate, 0.4amp max discharge.

Best Regards,
Eric

Burned_NE2
09-30-2008, 04:29 PM
Hi EgmQC

Oops I get what you were saying now, looks like I didn't correctly interpret the formula you were using (my math was a little dyslexic) :notworthy:

Theremart thanks for the link to the SSG_STARTERS_GUIDE-Two.pdf it's very informative.

Regards,
Paul

theremart
10-01-2008, 02:12 AM
Hi EgmQC

Oops I get what you were saying now, looks like I didn't correctly interpret the formula you were using (my math was a little dyslexic) :notworthy:

Theremart thanks for the link to the SSG_STARTERS_GUIDE-Two.pdf it's very informative.

Regards,
Paul

Actually Sephiroth was the one that gave you the starters guide ( the one that I have converted to audio and have listen to about 40 times :)

I have been looking for others who have done what that guide says to make sets of 4 batteries and rotate them with excess power.

Shamus
10-01-2008, 03:40 AM
I have been looking for others who have done what that guide says to make sets of 4 batteries and rotate them with excess power.
Me too. :) It seems that I have yet to hear of a success story from that angle (other than Kevin's :)) and lots of failures.

I can't help but think of the TUV tests on John's old pages that showed that very thing and if I remember correctly, the SSG he used wasn't that big. Need to look into this deeper. :thinking:

selamatg
10-01-2008, 03:15 PM
Hi All,


I have 2 battery always getting warm after about 4 hours on charging with my SS.
The voltage can raise up to 13.6 V (on charging). but when I try keep charge the voltage will drop slowly. I have try to stop the charging for few hours then charge again but seem the battery condition still a same (won't hold the charging for long period). both battery already try more than 10 cycle with same result.

This only happen with this 2 battery, the other can charge up to 14.9 V (on charging) and the condition getting better.

Anyone have same experience with this? or maybe any advice for me?

Thanks
Selamatg

theremart
10-02-2008, 02:34 AM
Hi All,


I have 2 battery always getting warm after about 4 hours on charging with my SS.
The voltage can raise up to 13.6 V (on charging). but when I try keep charge the voltage will drop slowly. I have try to stop the charging for few hours then charge again but seem the battery condition still a same (won't hold the charging for long period). both battery already try more than 10 cycle with same result.

This only happen with this 2 battery, the other can charge up to 14.9 V (on charging) and the condition getting better.

Anyone have same experience with this? or maybe any advice for me?

Thanks
Selamatg

I have never had the battery get warm when charging. What is the amp hours on the batteries you have?

I cannot give much advice as I have not had much sucess with this yet.

theremart
10-02-2008, 02:49 AM
I have been thinking about my load tests, I went back and looked at others who have run load tests and I have found they have run the battery down to 10.5 volts, John Bedini included on the test on his web page he runs the battery down to 10 V. I have only been going down to 12.5V

I have run 2 test at .4V and .6 V I am still getting the same amp hours out of the batteries going down to 12.5V.

Now that I go back and look at my old test with the Neo SSG, I am impressed that I got 4 amp hours out of the battery from 13.32 V down to 12.5 V. But I am saddened that somehow I have lost this capacity of this battery.

So... Perhaps what I should be doing is load testing down to 10 V and cyclying this way.....


From

20* Bedini (http://www.icehouse.net/john34/bedinibearden.html)

--------------------------------------

BATTERY TEST SEQUENCE:

One lead acid gel-cell (12 volts, 450 milliamps) is being utilized as the primary source fully charged at 12.5 volts

Three (3) lead acid gel-cell batteries (12 volt, 450 milliamps) strapped in parallel are being used as the charge destination. The batteries are discharged to 10 volts for the test purposes.

Test #1 starts at 10:45 AM utilizing primary battery fully charged at 12.5 volts charging three (3) destination batteries paralleled. The destination batteries reach a charge capacity of 14 volts at 11:20 AM.

The destination batteries are then discharged to 10 volts under working load to prepare for Test #2.

Test #2 starts at 11:25 AM utilizing primary battery measured at 11.5 volts. Charging three (3) destination batteries paralleled. The destination batteries reach a charge capacity of 14 volts at 12:50 PM.

The destination batteries are then discharged to 10 volts under working load to prepare for Test #3.

Test #3 starts at 1:00 PM utilizing primary battery measured at 10.5 volts. Charging three (3) destination batteries paralleled. The destination batteries reach a charge capacity of 14 volts at 1:40 PM.

The destination batteries are then discharged to 10 volts under working load to prepare for Test #4.

Test #4 starts at 2:05 PM utilizing primary battery measured at 9.5 volts. Charging three (3) destination batteries paralleled. The destination batteries reach a charge capacity of 13 volts at 2:40 PM. The primary battery is now discharged to 9 volts under working load and unable to further run the

TOTAL BATTERIES CHARGED:

12 lead acid gel-cell batteries (12 volts, 450 milliamps each). This ratio is a 12 to 1 charging factor. The motor operation (work) being performed as this was done is not included as an additional factor in this test.

--------------------------------------------

ldissing
10-02-2008, 11:11 AM
The cap pulse charging circuit is interesting, because there is a period of time when the HV pulses are bypassing the capacitor and going directly to the battery.

When the 555 output is low, the capacitor is charging. When the 555 is high, the capacitor discharges, but in my experience, multiple pulses are still occurring in the Solid State setup while the 555 is high, so those pulses go to the battery too.

I mentioned on the monopole3 group that you could put a diode between pins 7 and 6 (on the 555) and cause that "ON" pulse to be greatly diminished, (which allows the cap to charge faster because the on time is so small) but was quickly hammered (in a private email) by the moderator saying that I was possibly infringing on the patent, which is absurd, since I didn't describe the circuit at all. I keep wondering why, why did I get hammered by suggesting that?

Anyway, maybe those pulses are necessary as they are HV with little current and that helps the battery charge after the inrush of current from the capacitor.

Basically the capacitor discharge is a standard current charge to the battery, but the HV will sneak in there too, which makes this system different than normal pulse charging systems.

Are you guys using new batteries when charging? They recommend brand new batteries for this testing. Old batteries have to be de-sulphated before they will begin to hold a charge properly.

theremart
10-02-2008, 06:18 PM
Last night I took the battery that the Solid State had charged and put it on my 6 transistor monopole energizer. Below are the charging and discharge results, input power to monopole was 20V 2 amp. Very nice to see this battery performing back near where it was to 3.2 amp hours before it hits 12.5. So... this leads me to believe the Solid State needs to charge the battery to a higher voltage? The Monopole sure shot the voltage up mid point I started at 1 amp then switched to 2 amp input.

I was shocked to see the voltage climb to 16.34V.


The question in my mind is where does one stop with the charging... It seems the rules have changed for top voltage. I do remember that Bedini charged the 24V batteries on his BIG batteries to way over 24V...



http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/7852/dischargeaftermulticoilvi1.th.jpg (http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dischargeaftermulticoilvi1.jpg)http://img527.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)


http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4038/chargeof12amphourbatterha1.th.jpg (http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chargeof12amphourbatterha1.jpg)http://img527.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

theremart
10-02-2008, 09:03 PM
The cap pulse charging circuit is interesting, because there is a period of time when the HV pulses are bypassing the capacitor and going directly to the battery.

When the 555 output is low, the capacitor is charging. When the 555 is high, the capacitor discharges, but in my experience, multiple pulses are still occurring in the Solid State setup while the 555 is high, so those pulses go to the battery too.

I mentioned on the monopole3 group that you could put a diode between pins 7 and 6 (on the 555) and cause that "ON" pulse to be greatly diminished, (which allows the cap to charge faster because the on time is so small) but was quickly hammered (in a private email) by the moderator saying that I was possibly infringing on the patent, which is absurd, since I didn't describe the circuit at all. I keep wondering why, why did I get hammered by suggesting that?

Anyway, maybe those pulses are necessary as they are HV with little current and that helps the battery charge after the inrush of current from the capacitor.

Basically the capacitor discharge is a standard current charge to the battery, but the HV will sneak in there too, which makes this system different than normal pulse charging systems.

Are you guys using new batteries when charging? They recommend brand new batteries for this testing. Old batteries have to be de-sulphated before they will begin to hold a charge properly.


Ok if I understand you correctly the connection coming off 7 you put a diode, do you put the stripe near 7 or near 7 or near 6? You are saying replace the wire now coming off 7 with a diode right? Or... are you adding the diode in with the present circuit?

I also had bad experience on the Monopole 3 group. I found the moderators there to be very rude. So much unlike this forum.

I am not using brand new batteries, however, I have tested these used batteries and have computer generated charts of how they perform. Any variation of performance, and I can see it. I did start with brand new batteries when I built my first school girl motor, and I have a base line of what a good charger is.

Thank you for sharing your input on the Solid State Bedini, I am trying to tune mine in, I am thinking now looking at my last data, I have not let it charge up enough, simply needs more time on the charger with a little more current.

Cheers:thumbsup:

theremart
10-03-2008, 12:51 AM
It should only charge 14 - 14.9 V. I am going up to 16.34!


http://www.upgi.com/specs/D5744.pdf

theremart
10-03-2008, 11:34 AM
I have found if I let the battery charge to a higher voltage I am getting more amp hours out of the battery. The small line is was charged to 15.34, The second to 16.36V. 3.2 amp hours is a big improvement over 1 amp hour. This time I used a battery that was not charged on the multi-coiler but only on the SS, I simply allowed it to charge up to a higher voltage.


http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9387/betterresultswithsolidszn1.th.jpg (http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=betterresultswithsolidszn1.jpg)http://img515.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

Filibuster
10-03-2008, 05:19 PM
Hi,
I am new here and i have just built an SS with Full Wave Bridge recently.
I am chewing on the same problem with getting only “fluffy” charge for the last days.
First I was thinking it is related to improper earthing, but it isn’t. Maybe it is with the SRC. Not every SRC is the same. The model is also not specified. (Why??)
We need a perfect DC current pulse to get the Radiant Event, just quickly stuffing the electrons inside the battery, so that it gets choked (as I understand, maybe I am wrong?). :confused: What I suspect is, that maybe this is not happening because of the SRC.

I am trying to charge a 66 AH car battery with another 2 car batteries on the primary. (24.1 Volts, 130 milli Amps on primary circuit). My secondary voltage is not going beyond 12.1 Volts. I tried before with 12.4 volts on the primary, but without success. :mad:
I am using a TIP142 in Darlington to trigger the SRC, instead of the 2N3584. The SRC is a 50RIA120, a monster. I use a diode on the 555, as mentioned by Idissing, to decouple the “ON” and “OFF” times. The stripe of the diode to the Pin 6 side. The cap on the 555 is a 100 nF and R1=R2 is a 1Meg Ohm poti with 15 turns (actually in series with a 1k Ohm each, in case the Meg goes to zero)). That gives a very wide time range to play with. From some micro-seconds to max 140 milliseconds per period.
The Carge/Discharge cap is a 330 micro-F, 200V. I do not think a bigger cap will solve the fluffy charge problem. The discharge-amperage (more than 25 Amps) should be enough to trigger the event.

So I set my system on 60 milli-sec charge time and 78 micro-sec discharge time, which is practically the mini-max of the available time range.
In Picture 1 you can see the cap charging/discharging with a Voltage drop of 6.5 Volts. On the lower side you can see the trigger output of the 555: An apparently straight line for the “OFF” (cap charging time) and some tiny spots for the “ON” (cap discharge time).
Picture 2 shows the discharge current spikes of approx 29 Amps into the battery and again on the lower side the trigger pulse of the 555.
I noticed a small “back-rush” of electrons after the main spike (see blue arrow), so I blew it up (timewise), to have a closer look.
Picture 3 shows the current-spike of 23 Ampere and below the 58 micro-second “ON” of the SRC. This is not a perfect DC spike as it should be. What is clearly visible is the current reversal (blue arrow). This maybe is the reason for the Radiant Event not to occur. I thought maybe the current oscillates between the SRC and the battery, but the same picture you can see also if measured between cap and SRC. So some Electrons are actually flowing BACK through the SRC. I do not know about your SRC, but for mine it seems to do simple pulse-charging.
These electrons flowing back maybe the key. They are the ones the battery can’t swallow immediately and are supposed to create the Radiant Effect by accumulating on the minus-pole of the battery. This it not happening by allowing the flow-back. Maybe i should try some Schottky-diodes to improve the quality of my DC spike.:confused:

Hoppy
10-03-2008, 06:09 PM
Hi,

I am trying to charge a 66 AH car battery with another 2 car batteries on the primary. (24.1 Volts, 130 milli Amps on primary circuit). My secondary voltage is not going beyond 12.1 Volts. I tried before with 12.4 volts on the primary, but without success. :mad:


Hi Filibuster,

I've spent the last two years building Bedini electro-mechanical and solid state oscillators, so I may be able to offer you some help. A current of 130mA on the primary is woefully inadequate to charge a car battery in a paractical timescale. You will charge it to a point but it will plateau out well before reaching a fully charged voltage of 15V plus.

When Bedini talks about low current charging, he is referring to the charging current, not the primary supply current. The differential is around 3 - 4 parts supply current to 1 part charging current as measured with an analogue ammeter. You will need at least 0.5 Amps charging current to do any serious charging on a car battery and this means over 2 Amps on the primary.The minimum charging current or 'trigger current' as JB refers to it as, is the amount of current that can push the battery up to over 15V. This current may be lower than 2 Amps on the primary but it will depend on the condition of the battery. The more conditioned a battery becomes through repeated cycling, the lower the current needed to push it up over 15V. Your energiser therefore needs to have the power to condition a battery from the start. Although I have described an SG type setup,your solid state cap pulser will still need to output the same average level of current into your battery. The 'dump' frequency needs to suit the particular battery you are using, so as to optimise charge rate.

I suggest your solid state energiser uses an MJL21194 transistor with a 100' three strand (trifilar) 18awg / 19swg ECW coil. This will give you sufficient power to condition / charge a car battery in a reasonable timescale from the off. You can back off the drive current progressively as your battery becomes conditioned.

The conditioning process is achieved by many charge / discharge cycles which gradually remove sulfation deposits and reduce the internal resistance of the battery, allowing the battery to absorb more energy, thus increasing its capacity. This is where Bedini claims the gain is achieved - 'more out than in'.

Hope this helps.

Regards
Clive

theremart
10-03-2008, 08:51 PM
Amps is where it is at for larger batteries. Note the battery charger sold by Renaissance battery Renaissance Charge - Intelligent Solutions to Premature Battery Failure (http://www.r-charge.com) uses 20V 2 amps.... you can see their manual online.

Today I am VERY happy that my load test returned tests BETTER than a new battery. 4.75 amps hours from 13.3 V down to 12.5. I am comparing to the charts that the web site has for my battery.

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/3017/longamphours1032008tc3.th.jpg (http://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=longamphours1032008tc3.jpg)http://img78.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)


I have compared these to the new battery and it load tests better than new.


So for review, after charging with solid state the battery may climb to a higher voltage than what you are familiar with.

After that it settled down to about a volt over where it normally is.


The solid state did give me good amps after I allowed it to charge the battery up to 16.34V. ( my 12 amp hour battery ) NOTE the manual spec says to goto 13.99 V, thus this is why I was not getting any amp hours out of the battery.

But so far the best results have been from my multi coiler 6 transistor that have given me the results in this load test. AT LAST! my used battery is showing me something substantial. The others are also showing the same signs...


:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

Filibuster
10-03-2008, 09:19 PM
Hi Hoppy,
on the primary i use a 140’ 3 strand ECW, 22AWG, triggered by a MJ15024 and a 3 K base resistor. It resonates in the 2kHz range. I thought a higher frequency and lower current draw is good, but if I reduce the resistor, the resonance freq will drop and the current draw will increase. Is this the way to do or to wind an entire new coil? Is it then useful to wind additional strands ? They can add on the power. Any experience which dumping frequency range will work for which battery?
There is one basic question: Is the event happening in the coil or in the battery? Any ideas or suggestions?

cowboyrx
10-03-2008, 09:43 PM
Someone mentioned that the source battery could be a 12V solar panel. Has anyone experimented with one or has opinions?

Also, is it possible to modify the circuit that prevents overcharging the battery; like this circuit does?
Automatic 12V Lead Acid Battery Charger (http://www.aaroncake.net/circuits/charger2.asp)

Filibuster
10-03-2008, 09:47 PM
Hi Theremart,
the diode on the 555 is in parallel to R2 between Pin 6 and 7, the strip to the Pin 6 side

theremart
10-03-2008, 10:04 PM
Someone mentioned that the source battery could be a 12V solar panel. Has anyone experimented with one or has opinions?

Also, is it possible to modify the circuit that prevents overcharging the battery; like this circuit does?
Automatic 12V Lead Acid Battery Charger (http://www.aaroncake.net/circuits/charger2.asp)

There is a thread on this topic here...

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2136-solar-bedini-sg.html


The first post in the thread gives Bedini's advice.

What I have done in my solar charging is use a very low wattage solar panel -15 W to charge a battery up to full charge then I use this on the Bedini. I am not worried about a 15 W solar panel cooking my semi batteries. The better way to go is a controller at least in my experience for large solar panels so you can set it and forget it. But I monitor my solar panels every day and as soon as one battery is charged I yank it off and put it on to charge other batteries with the Bedini. I don't have my SS fully working to full speed yet, but it is getting there at last.

Renaissance Charge - Intelligent Solutions to Premature Battery Failure (http://www.r-charge.com) has a solar charger in development for some time now, but I don't know how long it will be till it comes on the market.

Also this group is VERY into solar charging and using wind for power, very creative group.

gotwind.org FORUM - Click here to post comments/questions - Powered by ForumCo.com - The Forum Company (http://gotwind.forumco.com/forum~FORUM_ID~2.asp)

Cheers !

theremart
10-03-2008, 10:06 PM
Hi Theremart,
the diode on the 555 is in parallel to R2 between Pin 6 and 7, the strip to the Pin 6 side

So you are not changing anything in the circuit, but adding this inline if I understand you. Not replacing any leads, but adding this to the circuit.

Do I understand you correctly?

I really think my circuit needs this to slow down the firing.

Filibuster
10-03-2008, 11:18 PM
Yes,:thumbsup:
see 555 timer (http://www.doctronics.co.uk/555.htm)

Shamus
10-04-2008, 04:53 AM
There is one basic question: Is the event happening in the coil or in the battery? Any ideas or suggestions?
I think the answer is both: It's definitely in the coil as a simple experiment I posted in another thread (started by Amigo and I think was called 'analogue vs. solid state') will prove to you. And from what I've read of Bedini's material something happens in the battery as well--though I don't entirely understand the process that occurs there. :)

Hoppy
10-04-2008, 07:48 AM
Hi Hoppy,
on the primary i use a 140’ 3 strand ECW, 22AWG, triggered by a MJ15024 and a 3 K base resistor. It resonates in the 2kHz range. I thought a higher frequency and lower current draw is good, but if I reduce the resistor, the resonance freq will drop and the current draw will increase. Is this the way to do or to wind an entire new coil? Is it then useful to wind additional strands ? They can add on the power. Any experience which dumping frequency range will work for which battery?
There is one basic question: Is the event happening in the coil or in the battery? Any ideas or suggestions?

Hi Filibuster

I use a very simple blocking oscillator where the trigger / feedback winding is wired out of phase with the power winding. Looking at the two windings side by side, the bottom of the feedback winding is connected directly to the positive supply rail and the top is wired through a current limiting resistor to the transistor base. The resisior needs to be a high wattage wirewound resistor. A rheostat can be used as a variable resistor. This simple oscillator will give very fast rise time pulses and will start relaibly. Ensure that you fit a diode (IN4001) between base and emitter as with the vanilla SG, otherwise you could easily damage the transistor.

Your coil should be OK but you will probably decide to beef it up at some stage when you are more familiar with everything. I stick to 100ft strand length or less to keep impedance down. Multiple strands will give more power and this is the way to go when charging big battery banks.

The consensus opinion with dumping is not to dump very high voltages across the battery. One or two volts above battery voltage as measured directly across the cap is sufficient. The cap value will determine the dump frequency which should be adjusted to give optimum performance for a particular battery. I suggest you do not go above about 20V above battery terminal voltage because there is an awful lot of power in the discharge pulses.

The theory says that environmental negative energy is captured in the coil and transmutated to positive energy in the cap. However, I have no worthwhile opinion about whether this is in fact the case.

Hoppy

Filibuster
10-04-2008, 01:53 PM
Hi Hoppy,
is there any advantage to wire the triggerloop out of phase as compared to connecting the one end to the minuspole? Has the resonance freq of the primary to be adjusted to a specific frequency also ? :confused:

ldissing
10-04-2008, 02:52 PM
Ok if I understand you correctly the connection coming off 7 you put a diode, do you put the stripe near 7 or near 7 or near 6? You are saying replace the wire now coming off 7 with a diode right? Or... are you adding the diode in with the present circuit?


I just added a diode (to the original circuit) from pin 7 to pin 6 with the "line" at the pin 6 side. The cathode is to pin 6, the anode to pin 7. The reason that the 555 is always greater than a 50% duty cycle, is that the discharge is through the combination of the resistor values, the diode allows a bypass. You might need to increase the value of the 330 ohm resistor, I used a 1K ohm resistor. By using this diode, you can make it less than 50% as long as the other resistor is bigger than 1K (or 330 ohms based on the original circuit).

I'm not saying this is a good thing to do, it was just interesting how I was hammered by the moderator and my post was not even allowed into the forum...at least as I remember it was not allowed.

L

ldissing
10-04-2008, 02:58 PM
I've read so much in all these forums that I can remember if anybody reported doing the AV plug with the solid state oscillators.

I can report that I can run a 12 V motor (it is a rather small one, but bigger than the radio shack motors) by taking only one side of the third wire on the tri-fillar coil and putting a motor in there with two diodes and the motor will run. If I kick the input voltage to 24 V, the motor is screaming (running incredibly fast) ....it was pretty cool. I didn't think it would work, but it does in fact work...and I can do it on either side of the wire. It makes no difference. I can even put one AV plug on one side and one on the other with a motor on each one and the two motors run although a little slower. The oscillations changed form with a motor on the AV plug, which was interesting. They were about 3 times faster using the AV plug than without.

L