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Aaron
04-26-2007, 11:56 PM
Bedini School Girl Science Fair Motor discussion. This isn't for the versions that charge batteries. This is really for beginners who just want to learn more about the very simple roller skate version.

Get a copy of the only Authorized Bedini SG Handbook - Bedini SSG (http://www.emediapress.com/go.php?offer=qiman&pid=36)

Aaron
04-30-2007, 07:41 PM
These 2 schematics are the best ones to start with to learn the Bedini circuits. Don't worry about energy recovery and charging batteries with them. Just build this to learn the prinicples of the monopole.

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/john-bedini-sg.jpg

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/john-bedini-sg2.jpg

I didn't even know what a transistor was when I build my first one. When you looked at the circuit, it literally looked like the schematic. You don't have to spend a lot of money either. I used a pink roller skate wheel from a $2 pair of roller skates from the Goodwill.

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/aaron-schoolgirl.gif

sykavy
04-30-2007, 10:03 PM
These 2 schematics are the best ones to start with to learn the Bedini circuits. Don't worry about energy recovery and charging batteries with them. Just build this to learn the prinicples of the monopole.

I didn't even know what a transistor was when I build my first one. When you looked at the circuit, it literally looked like the schematic. You don't have to spend a lot of money either. I used a pink roller skate wheel from a $2 pair of roller skates from the Goodwill.

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/aaron-schoolgirl.gif

thanx so much I never thought id get such a great welcome. Im going to try it, so I may not be posting much until i get it working:)
God bless

Aaron
04-30-2007, 11:15 PM
There is an official Bedini SG manual finally available: Bedini SSG (http://bedinissg.com)

You'll probably get it working on the first try.

Use a 10ohm resistor to start with, easier to get it running on that. Not as efficient, but just get it to work.

1 X 10ohm resistor
1 X 1N914 diode
1 X MPS8099 transistor or RCA3055 or 2N3055 either of those will work fine

Get enough wire of #23 and #26 or closest you can find for those. Enamel coated magnet wire..enough to wind about 600 turns on the coil to the dimensions in those schematics. Make sure to wind it so that when you put + top the top of the coil and - at the bottom that the magnetic field on the coil is NORTH at the TOP. Wind both of those wires together at the SAME time around the spool.

The core for the coil can be a soild piece of iron or use a bunch of smaller pieces of welding rod cut to lenght and bundled together.

The transistor has a collector, emitter and base. The collector is the input, the emitter it the output. With these NPN transistors, there is no connection through the transistor from collector to emitter. The faucet is shut off basically. To make the connection, it requires a bit of current at the base...that is what the trigger wire is for. That turns it on and when the power is no longer at the base, the transistor shuts off. It is just an off and on switch triggered by the base.

When you buy the transistor, the package will give you a diagram or you can find it online which lead is what. BCE are the 3 you need to know. Just connect the coil wires, diode and resistor to each other like in the diagrams John drew.

The resistor doesn't matter which way you put it. The diode, the little black stripe needs to be towards the base of the transistor.

Make sure the wheel spins really, really easily. One little spin and it just keeps going. You can make it like mine where the wheel spins around the shaft or you can make it fixed to the shaft so the shaft spins in some bearings in the frame uprights.

You can use regular ceramic magnets on the rotor. Just make sure North is facing out on all 4 magnets so that south are all facing towards the axle.

The little black sealed gel cell batts are good ones to play with for starters. Use 12 volt ones.

When it is all hooked up, you give a slight little spin on the wheel and it will just start speeding up as fast as it can go.

When you get it running with these parts (use the 10ohm resistor), then you can switch out the resistor to something like a 680ohm to see if it will run on that. You basically want as much resistance as possible while still letting enough get through to trigger the transistor. That is the idea anyway.

There are a LOT of people around the world who have build these Bedini machines so you won't have a problem getting people to help you out.

sykavy
05-02-2007, 09:49 PM
Get enough wire of #23 and #26 or closest you can find for those. Enamel coated magnet wire..enough to wind about 600 turns on the coil to the dimensions in those schematics. .

A couple of questions what is enough wire?
and
What is Enamel coates magnetic wire? Is the wire magnetic?

That looks like three questions mea cupa:rolleyes:

Aaron
05-03-2007, 12:35 AM
Hi Sykavy,

The enamel coated magnet wire is copper wire with a transparent coating of enamel. It comes in different thicknesses measured in guage like 23, 26, etc... the lower the number the fatter it is. The wire isn't magnetic but when wound into a coil and power is applied, it will turn into an electromagnet. The wire is insulated with the enamel so the wire dosn't short itself.

You want enough wire to wind 600 turns of both wires at the same time. 100-200 feet of each should be enough. Just wind the coil so that it fills out to the spool ends. Follow the dimensions of the coil in John's drawings. 100-200 feet doesn't cost that much and you can get at most electronic supply places in most towns. I buy wire by weight like 10 pound spools of whatever gauge...That is a lot more than you need, but shop around.




A couple of questions what is enough wire?
and
What is Enamel coates magnetic wire? Is the wire magnetic?

sykavy
05-03-2007, 03:42 PM
Hi Sykavy,

The enamel coated magnet wire is copper wire with a transparent coating of enamel. It comes in different thicknesses measured in guage like 23, 26, etc... the lower the number the fatter it is. The wire isn't magnetic but when wound into a coil and power is applied, it will turn into an electromagnet. The wire is insulated with the enamel so the wire dosn't short itself.

You want enough wire to wind 600 turns of both wires at the same time. 100-200 feet of each should be enough. Just wind the coil so that it fills out to the spool ends. Follow the dimensions of the coil in John's drawings. 100-200 feet doesn't cost that much and you can get at most electronic supply places in most towns. I buy wire by weight like 10 pound spools of whatever gauge...That is a lot more than you need, but shop around.




A couple of questions what is enough wire?
and
What is Enamel coates magnetic wire? Is the wire magnetic?

Thanks! I also don't know how to tell the north from the south on the magnets. Also when I wind the spool does it have to be a special material?

How do I know which end of the spool of wire is north? Should the winding be very tight?
PS: The first law of history is not to dare to utter falsehood; the second, not to fear to speak the truth

Aaron
05-09-2007, 10:34 PM
John Bedini | Radiant Energy (http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/index.html)

sykavy
05-18-2007, 04:27 AM
:( John Bedini | Radiant Energy (http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/index.html)

the radiant stuff is cool and i can understand some of it but it isnt really the basic stuff i thought this thread was about.

How do i know the difference between north and south pole on the magnet? Im not joking , i really dont know.:confused: :(

I made my SG according (i think) to the plans you gave me above but the coil gets very hot in a short time. Have i done something wrong?:( :confused:

Aaron
05-18-2007, 06:39 AM
Hi Sykavy, I apologize. I forgot to answer your question about the poles.

click the thumbnail picture below.

Yes, wrap the coil pretty tight and wrap both wires together...both the trigger and power wire together.

The thumbnail picture below (click it) shows how to wrap the coil so that when you put + at the top and - at the bottom, you will get a NORTH field at the top of the coil. As long as the wire at the top is coming off the coil towards you from around the right side and the bottom wire is coming off the coil towards you from around the left side and you put + and - as shown, you will get a NORTH field at the top.

I like to start with the wires coming off the bottom of the coil poking off from the left side pointing at me. Then, I wrap upwards and down up and down up and down and I try to end at the very top...that is just to prevent confusion, you could of course end them both at the top and both at the bottom, but this makes it simple.

If you wind the coil like that you get the north field when a battery is attached to the coil. Then if you take a permanent magnet and put a fact towards the coil like this, it will repel if you are facing the north of the magnet to the coil. If you have south facing coil, it will suck to the coil when the coil is powered.

I hope this helps. Can you draw a diagram of exactly what you build and the components you used, size of wire and how many wraps, etc... did you wrap it like I described or did you wrap it backwards? You can make the whole thing work in reverse but if you are able to easily, I would unwind the coil and rewrap it properly like the diagram.

I didn't post that Bedini link for you to go figure it out yourself, I just did that to provide a link. This thread is intended for first time schoolgirl motor builders.

sykavy
05-18-2007, 04:59 PM
Hi Sykavy, I apologize. I forgot to answer your question about the poles.

click the thumbnail picture below.

Yes, wrap the coil pretty tight and wrap both wires together...both the trigger and power wire together.

The thumbnail picture below (click it) shows how to wrap the coil so that when you put + at the top and - at the bottom, you will get a NORTH field at the top of the coil. As long as the wire at the top is coming off the coil towards you from around the right side and the bottom wire is coming off the coil towards you from around the left side and you put + and - as shown, you will get a NORTH field at the top.

I like to start with the wires coming off the bottom of the coil poking off from the left side pointing at me. Then, I wrap upwards and down up and down up and down and I try to end at the very top...that is just to prevent confusion, you could of course end them both at the top and both at the bottom, but this makes it simple.

If you wind the coil like that you get the north field when a battery is attached to the coil. Then if you take a permanent magnet and put a fact towards the coil like this, it will repel if you are facing the north of the magnet to the coil. If you have south facing coil, it will suck to the coil when the coil is powered.

I hope this helps. Can you draw a diagram of exactly what you build and the components you used, size of wire and how many wraps, etc... did you wrap it like I described or did you wrap it backwards? You can make the whole thing work in reverse but if you are able to easily, I would unwind the coil and rewrap it properly like the diagram.

I didn't post that Bedini link for you to go figure it out yourself, I just did that to provide a link. This thread is intended for first time schoolgirl motor builders.

Thanks, but why is the coil getting so hot? This seems to be my biggest problem. Ill try it and get back to you thanks again for the help:)

Shamus
08-05-2007, 12:20 PM
Hi all, I'm new here so bear with me if this is all old hat. :)

I've been building my recreation of the schoolgirl and she's not behaving very well. I've already burned out two transistors, one by trying to solder the coil wire to the case--way too much heat!--and the other? Not sure what happened there. At any rate, trying to chase down magnet wire around here (Austin, TX area) has been difficult to say the least. Sure, you can get it at Radio Shack or Fry's, but only in ridiculously small quantities like 40 ft. (for #22) and 75 ft. (for #26). You can get a whopping 200 ft. of #30, but that's probably way too small.

So, the problem is most likely in my coil--I was only able to get 388 turns out of that 75 ft. of #26 which was wrapped bifilar with #24. In checking the coil with a voltmeter and spinning the rotor near it only around 5 mV max comes through as induced current. I'm guessing that this is not nearly enough current to bias the transistor on. :thumbsup: When sending current through the coil, though, it generates a good kick. If I pulse current through it by hand, I can get the rotor to turn fairly well. ;)

Anyway, a few questions come to mind about this circuit. First, I notice that there's a ground connection shown--is this strictly necessary? I saw on this page (http://rexresearch.com/bedini/bedini.htm) (near the bottom) that the circuit is almost identical (the only difference is the diode going to the recharge battery), but they caution that if there is no load that a neon bulb is required to keep the transistor from burning out. Is that the purpose of the ground in this circuit?

The other thing is I notice a lot of bifilar windings have the wires twisted around each other. Is that really necessary to get this to work? Perhaps the better question would be does it confer an advantage over winding the wires side by side (the way I did my coil)?

I'll post some pictures once I get this thing going. I'm almost 100% sure that the problem is that there's just not enough turns on my coil to induce enough current to bias the transistor. I've got some longer magnet wire lengths on order, so once those arrive we'll see what happens. :D

Aaron
08-05-2007, 04:43 PM
Hi Shamus,

If the transistor gets hot, I'm not sure it is from to few turns on the coil.

There are two things I would double check. Are the wires wrapped in the correct direction around the coil? Is the power wire going to + on the battery coming off around the right side of the coil towards you? And is the power wire going to the collector on the transistor coming off the coil from around the left side of the coil? And are the magnets for sure North facing out? These can still run even if everything is backwards and if so, it can heat up...I've experimented with that and got a hot transistor. I know this seems so simple that it can never be backwards but sometimes it is the simplest thing.

Have you tried spinning the wheel faster to get more induction to kick it off? Ideally, it will start by barely moving the rotor. If you have a lower resistance resistor at the base like a 10ohm, it will run way easier than a 680 for example but is less efficient but if you want to at least see if it all hooked up properly, drop the resistance and try it out. Lower resistance needs less speed on the rotor to get it going.

If the coil is wrapped correctly as indicated above and you hook it to a battery, the north field should push up on the North magnet facing out on the rotor. Of course you already know this but I'd make sure these 2 things are absolutely correct.

What components are you using? Transistor, resistor, diode? You can see in my picture here of the roller skate motor that I have a 2n3055 transistor and there isn't a 90v neon bulb. You don't really need it I don't think unless you have quite a few more turns.

You can twist the power and trigger wire together before wrapping on coil for a little more efficiency. Not necessary if you just want a simple model to learn from. I wouldn't worry about a diode going to a 2nd battery because you can always add that later. It sounds like you could use more turns. The wire I buy is sometimes on like 10 pound spools of various sizes (and weights)...much cheaper per foot than the radio shack wire. You don't need an external ground.

I hope some of these things help.

Shamus
08-05-2007, 08:40 PM
Hi Aaron!

As far as the coil goes, I followed the directions for winding as you set forth above. When I energize it with the (+) coming off the top lead and (-) off the bottom, it's a north pole with quite a bit of kick (I tested both the #24 portion and the #26 portion, and both are quite powerful as electromagnets :)). I verified north on my magnets by hanging one on a piece of thread and seeing which side faced north, and labeled the side facing that way as "north". I then checked all the rest of my magnets by checking for repulsion with the known north face and labeled all the repulsed sides "north" as well. The core is made up of 2 1/2 inch nails epoxied together with the heads cut off, cut to length, and the points sanded down.

The components are the stock ones suggested by the schematic: A 2N3055 transistor, a 1N914 diode, and a 10 ohm, 1/2 watt resistor (too much wattage? seems unlikely to me). I'm using a battery consisting of 1.5V AA cells--one at 6V/2.3A, and another at 12V/8A. There isn't any deviation from what's suggested up above other than the lack of turns on my coil. Also, it doesn't induce enough current even if I give the rotor a good spin. Pictures follow. In the closeup of the circuit, the clips are not shorting out with the collector. I decided to go with clips after losing the second transistor and thinking that my diode had blown. This way, I can test components without having to solder/desolder anything. :thumbsup:

Also, I connect (+) from my battery to the red lead coming from the top of the coil, and connect the (-) to the emitter (the clip on the bottom right of the circuit closeup). The second transistor blew when I gave the rotor a good spin and it acted as if it were magnetically braking the rotor--the coil and transistor heated up quite a bit on that run. :( I have since verified and reverified that the coil is hooked up correctly to the battery and that the coil produces a north magnetic field out the top that repulses each and every magnet on the rotor. The only thing that looks different in my setup is the number of turns on my coil, but there could be something else that I've overlooked. ;)

Shamus
08-07-2007, 07:23 PM
OK, yesterday I finally tracked down a local supplier of magnet wire after I found out that the wire I ordered over the internet wouldn't arrive for TWO WEEKS. :mad: At any rate, I finally wound 600 turns of #22 and #26 on my core (after removing the 388 turns that were already sitting on it ;)), hooked up the alligator clips, and success! :D :D :D

Some preliminary tests showed interesting results. It went at a pretty good clip when I had the 12V battery hooked up, but it seemed to run faster with only 6V (going by the pitch the bearings were putting out). Curiouser and curiouser. :) The current draw was only about 1/4 of an amp with the 6V, which should go down once I replace the 10 ohm resistor with a 680.

Also, my coil runs hot too. So much so, that loosened the epoxy on the back side of the coil spool! :eek: My guess as to why it's running hot is that there's just too much juice going through it, which upping the resistance should help with--I mean, come on, 10 ohms isn't much. ;) At any rate, I hope to post some more rigorous results here once I get my coil back together. :thumbsup:

And oh... The questions, the questions... More later. :blowout:

Aaron
08-07-2007, 10:37 PM
Glad you got it working! :blowout:

A few things for the efficiency is that you want as weak as magnets as possible but strong enough to just induce enough to trigger the base and also you want as much resistance at the base as possible while still letting the minimum through just to trigger the base.

The magnets you have look like the radio shack ones with the hole in the middle? Probably fine. Before you added more winds, it might have been possible to get it to run if you double stacked those magnets (with the fewer winds).

When you replace the resistor to 680, if it seems like it is difficult to get started, you can just double stack the magnets.

Anyway, post your results...looking forward to it. Also, you might see that when it gets going, it will speed up and start drawing up to the 1/4 amp you see, then it might start speeding up even more and the input might start dropping backwards. Kind of like shifting into higher gear but input drops.

I'll post a video of my roller skate wheel video...has about 600 turns. That is the very first one I ever did and it got me hooked! LOL

Shamus
08-10-2007, 02:39 AM
OK, now that I've swapped out the 10 ohm for a 680 ohm resistor the coil is running nice and cool. :) It might be better to advise using the 680 ohm first and fall back on the 10 ohm only as a last resort, since it seems to cause some serious coil heating. :thumbsup: With the 680 ohm in place I do have to give it a pretty good spin to get it going, but that could be due to not enough turns on the coil, suboptimal bearings, unbalanced rotor, etc.

Now I'm getting some interesting results--before the 6V battery seemed to kick the 12V in the tail but now the 12V is doing amazing things! Here are some nominal measurements (these are crude BTW because my meter is kinda low end):

@ 6V: 70-80 mA, low RPM (guess-timate in the 100-300 range)
@12V: 150 mA, high RPM (guess-timate around double or so)

On one of those test runs with the 12V battery the rotor started spinning very fast (several times faster than the above measurement shows!) and I got a little nervous--I didn't want to have a magnet go flying into my chest at high velocity, tape or no tape. ;) So I unhooked the battery and let it run down and decided to try again. This time it didn't spin up as fast and I couldn't get the coil as close to the rotor as before (definitely makes a difference in RPM!), so I shut it down again and found one side of one of the magnets had come loose. Apparently the glue I used doesn't bond well to ceramic magnets. :( So I got out the epoxy and glued it back down and tonight I gave a demonstration to my lovely wife (who doesn't know what to make of this stuff ;)) and it spun up to high RPM once more on the 12V battery. And, just my luck, another magnet came loose which put an end to tonights experimentation. I have a feeling I'm going to have reglue the entire rotor. Let this be a lesson to all of you experimenting with this thing: Make sure that you have some sturdy tape on the outside of your rotor--it will save you bacon! :p

At any rate, before the magnet came loose I was looking at the amp draw as the rotor spun up on the 12V battery. It started around 40 mA and then settled a bit around 100 mA. Then it took off; the draw was steadily climbing up to 190 mA as the RPM increased. Unfortunately, the noise from the bearings was making me nervous as it's a repurposed sliding glass door bearing meant for a vertical application and very low RPM--and here I have it horizontal and high RPM. :eek: I have a feeling it would have gone even faster and then the amps would probably settle back down. I'll have to get a box to put it into and just let it go as fast as it wants and see what happens. ;)

After that, I'll just have to hang a diode between the coil and the collector and see what's there. ;) I know there's definitely something there because one time as I was checking the transistor to see if it was heating up I accidentally shorted the collector and the base with my finger while it was running and received a pretty good bite--definitely more than 12 volts!

Ultimately I'd like to videotape the meter so I can make a nice graph of what's going on (basically amps vs. time, though I think amps vs. RPM would more interesting ;)). I guess before this is all over I'll have to find m'self a tachometer.

Kevin
08-10-2007, 05:46 AM
Hey Shamus :)

Congrats on getting your BSG running!

I can testify, the magnets can do damage. I had one fly off my wheel and imbed itself in some drywall. :eek: After that, since I am using a bicycle wheel, I taped them each individually around the rim.

One relatively inexpensive tool that I use to measure the performance is a digital tachometer similar to the one found at this link:

NON CONTACT DIGITAL LASER PHOTO TACHOMETER - NEW - (item 220136890075 end time Aug-10-07 12:24:04 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/NON-CONTACT-DIGITAL-LASER-PHOTO-TACHOMETER-NEW_W0QQitemZ220136890075QQihZ012QQcategoryZ1504QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Regarding your voltage, that is more expensive to measure, an oscilloscope can show you the voltage and the wave form.

I found the best on my current set-up is putting out about 180 volts (input is 12 volts).

Have fun!

:)

Shamus
08-12-2007, 04:58 AM
@Aaron: I forgot to mention, yes, the magnets are the Radio Shack variety. Good eye! :)

@Kevin: Thanks for the heads up! I definitely want to measure RPM in my setup to get a better picture of what's going on. BTW, would you be willing to share some of your insights with the rest of us vis-a-vis improvements you've found? Or has Aaron already laid them all out above? ;)

OK, if this is getting boring just let me know and I'll shuddap. :) Some more interesting results tonight: It seems that the bearing has a large influence over the performance of this little machine. I built an eight magnet rotor (for the next step--results to be posted in a different thread once it's built ;)) and the short of it is that it performs better than the six magnet rotor.

Some of the gains are probably due to the fact that the eight was built better than the six; where the six has slightly offset discs in relation to the bearing the eight is almost dead on and where on the six the magnets are attached to the edge slightly non-uniform (one of the magnets is visibly skewed WRT the vertical) on the eight I made sure that they were uniform. :)

At any rate, when I first put the eight-magnet rotor on it didn't start at all with either 6V or 12V--I thought that maybe the magnet spacing was insufficient. But then I thought that maybe the bearing hadn't loosened up enough (it's the same bearing as on the six-magnet rotor :p) and thus broke out the spray lube. Once I did that, it spun up quite well to some fairly high RPM. :thumbsup: The current draw was around 120 mA @ 6V.

I then went back to the six-magnet rotor and to my surprise it spun up pretty fast (albeit somewhat slowly) and drew about 90 mA @ 6V. This seemed fishy to me, so once again I reached for the can of spray lube and gave it spritz while it was running. Once I did that, it started going faster while the amps dropped to around 50-60 mA. On subsequent runs, it never got above 50 mA while the RPM seemed to be fairly moderate (no tach yet--!).

So, to sum up, the bearings play a fair sized role in the performance of this machine. The ones I'm using have a fair amount of slop in them--somewhere in the neighborhood of 1-3 degrees from vertical which is bad, bad, bad. You can actually see the six-magnet rotor precess at high RPM. ;) Also, I had to reapply the spray lube to the eight-magnet rotor at least once, as during one run it spun up to the 120 mA point and then a few seconds later lost all power and stopped completely. Good bearings are vital!

On a side note, I was wondering if anyone knows where to get various odds and ends such as spools and bearings. Internet searches tend to lead either to OEMs and industrial suppliers or to wild goose chases. I did manage to find a few sealed pump bearings at the local neighborhood giant home improvement warehouse store. I also found some perfect spools there--too bad they had $7 worth of #18 stranded wire on them. :( Where is Tinkerer's Depot to be found?

Kevin
08-12-2007, 09:45 AM
Shamus,

Your posts are NOT boring....it is exciting to hear of another traveling down the road of experimentation and discovering the same fantastic world of open systems! :thumbsup:

Most everything I have done is from what Aaron, Peter or John have told me. I did TRV how to make it better, and got a few little tidbits that did improve output.

I have built several units, but the main one I used to document thousands of hours of charging batteries utilized a 12' diameter bicycle wheel. Standard bearings which I kept well greased.

Double stacked Radio Shack rectangular magnets. Magnets are placed the with the space of two magnets in between each magnet pair.

One coil, but wrapped with wires for TWO circuits.

I use a variable resistor for each circuit. This is so I can tune it for the optimum work put in to work output.

I use 12 volt deep cycle (85 amp hour) batteries. (I do have a few 12 volt car batteries that had been discarded because they were "dead" that are in the rotation also)

All my parts have been purchased at Radio Shack or Walmart or Digi-Key, (Digi-Key Corporation - USA Home Page (http://www.digikey.com/)) and I got my wire at a motor rebuilding business (they also had old spools sitting around, and I got a few of those from them).

As soon as I get 150 free hours (maybe this winter) I am going to build a larger unit. Right now the plan is for 8 coils and 32 circuits. My calculation is that I will be able to run my entire house off this unit.

:)

Shamus
08-14-2007, 03:57 PM
Thank you Aaron, and especially Kevin--the pieces are starting to fall into place! Of course it helps to have a copy of Free Energy Generation at hand. I didn't realize just how useful that photo gallery would be, especially when looking at John Bedini's site and wishing I had a closeup of some of his machines. ;) This was a good first step, as all the things I've been reading about and seen are starting to come together as a coherent whole.

I have much more to say about the subject of the Bedini motor, but I think that this thread is probably not the right one to say it in. Having said that, I will say this: I started to make the next machine which will have four coils and four circuits (single-coil/multi-circuit will be the third iteration). But since it has only one coil and one circuit, you could consider it a SG motor. :) I was a bit disappointed to find that I could only get around 700 turns from my 1/2 lb spool of #22 wire--I was hoping to get at least 900. I guess it's back to the internet sites to get a 7 lb. (or thereabouts) spool. :p

At any rate, I got it running last night and let it run overnight just to see if it would, and it did. Even with the lousy bearing I have in the rotor. :) I put the diode in between the coil and the collector to see what was there and lo and behold I saw some voltage spikes peaking around 200V! Obviously my instrument is too slow to really see what's going on with that part of the circuit but it's enough to get an indication. Needless to say, it's a bit stunning to see it for the first time. :blowout:

And since at this point we're no longer talking about the basic schoolgirl design, I will continue this discussion in a more appropriate thread. Complete with pictures, too! :thumbsup:

Kevin
08-14-2007, 07:40 PM
Hi Shamus :)

Thanks so much for the update. You are getting me excited to build my bigger unit....I have actually been thinking about doing it an hour here and there instead of waiting for a big block of time. :eek:

Hey! Have you touched your wire with your finger yet...the wire that is producing the voltage spikes? :rofl:

:suprise: Over my time of tuning I did quite a few times! Even though it is low amperage, 170-220 volts is quite a zap. :rofl:

Looking forward to your next update!

:)

Shamus
08-19-2007, 04:22 AM
@Kevin: If you didn't see my encouragement in the other thread, let me reiterate here--by all means do it an hour at a time if you have to and please post updates! :thumbsup:

Ok, here's what I see happening in this little circuit.

http://shamusworld.gotdns.org/images/bedini-schoolgirl-motor-small.png

What follows is my take on what happens during one cycle. When Mr. Bedini said that his monopole motor was an attraction motor, something just didn't sit right with me. But, of course, now I realize he was right:

http://shamusworld.gotdns.org/images/concept-step-1.png

With no current flow in the circuit, a rotor magnet is a attracted to the coil core and moves toward it. This induces a tiny current in both coil wires. Electrons flow from the back of the trigger coil to the front, through the resistor and diode and back the the rear of the trigger coil. If enough current is present, it also flows through the base of the transistor and into the power coil.

http://shamusworld.gotdns.org/images/concept-step-2.png

Once the base of the transistor has current flowing through it, current from the battery flows from the negative terminal of the battery, through the emitter of the transistor and out the collector, then through the rear of the coil and out the front to the positive terminal of the battery. At this point, the current flowing through the coil creates a strong magnetic field, temporarily magnetizing the coil core with a north pole in front and a south pole in back. This gives the rotor magnet a good strong kick in the direction it was traveling.

http://shamusworld.gotdns.org/images/concept-step-3.png

With the rotor magnet kicked away, there is no more induced current in the coil. Current flow at the base of the transistor stops and so the current path from the battery, through the transistor, is interrupted. At this point the magnetic field in the coil collapses and, coupled with the brief amount of time that the coil was energized by the battery, a radiant event occurs in the coil accompanied by a high amount of voltage appearing with no current. :) As the next magnet on the rotor comes in, it is attracted to the coil core and the cycle repeats itself.

Now this is what I'm seeing, but I could be flat out wrong. I'm just groping for an explanation of how this little thing works. :) One counterexample is in the Bedini/Beaden PPA where there is a picture of a waveform showing current in the trigger side of the circuit, one which strongly suggests a type of "ringing" oscillation as the current ramps up. Which means that my explanation, while plausible, fails to explain the ringing oscillation of that picture. Obviously, there are still some gaps in my knowledge here. ;)

Aaron
08-19-2007, 07:16 AM
Hi Shamus,

This isn't a direct response to you post...it is something I posted 2.5 years ago in icubenetwork when it was online in relation to John's circuits and the water fuel cells. But, it applies to these circuits and is a perspective hardly anyone is talking about yet.

---------------------------------------------------

qiman13
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:09 pm Post subject: coil importance

The coil is extremely important. There is not one single component
or aspect of this schematic that is not that important. Every
piece is crucial to consider. That becomes apparent when you
start to fine tune the energizer. A few ohms difference in the
resistor at the base can make a big difference in efficiency.

Impedance matching is important. You have to think of the circuit
as a gas pressure control system, since the aether acts exactly
like a gas under pressure.

For example, on one motor I just put together, with a 12volt
1.5 amp hour gel cell battery on one side and a 6volt on the output
smaller amp hour..the motor gets up to about 2600 rpm and
outputs so much radiant. That is because with the higher
impedance on the back end, it is acting like a pressure relief valve
with a tight spring. The motor can only open up so much.

When I put the same kind of battery on the back end 12volt, etc...
The energizer speeds up to 4800 rpm and output a hell of a lot
more radiant into the battery. That is because it is like having a
pressure relief valve with a looser spring or you can picture it
having the ports on a head bored up or having racing headers
instead of a stock exhaust manifold. It lets more out with less
back pressure.

That is what is happening. It isn't an electrical schematic, it is a
device that moves the Heaviside flow around under different
pressures. It is a valve for gas.

Aaron
08-19-2007, 07:27 AM
Shamus,

I think you're very intuitive with this.

I was thinking the same thing with the collapsed field attracting the north. Have you seen John's pics of the fields around the rotor.

Think maybe on this one that squeezing out in between each magnet is a "scalar south" field. All the souths facing inwards are repelling and have nowhere to go but out between the magnets. Not only that.... if you take two identical magnets and put north up and space them a bit apart, there is a south field coming out between the two.

There gets a point where the speed is such that as the north field is out and possibly hasn't collapsed yet, the south field is attracted to that :)

I suppose there are different ways to look at that but get a compass or other magnets and experiment with feeling the south coming between the magnets :)

Shamus
08-21-2007, 03:14 AM
A small shipment of magnet wire came in the other day and so I finally got to wind up a 1,000 turn coil. :D I've been reduced to fabricating my own spools from PVC pipe and other odd pieces of scrap and scratching my head trying to figure out how to keep flanges of the spools from falling off once too many turns are on it. ;) I'm still waiting for the 11 lb. spool...

Since I didn't have any batteries hanging off of the diode, I figured this thread would be appropriate to post some more preliminary results. I apologize for the paucity of hard data, but I just don't have enough meters to do the job. :( At any rate, starting the rotor with the 1,000 turn coil is much easier. :) Running 12V, the current draw consistently went to 230 mA while when running 6V, the current draw was consistently 90 mA (margin of error is +/- 10 mA). I did test the 6-magnet rotor with the new coil at 12V and it drew a steady 210 mA (didn't check 6V).

(slightly-offtopic)I did check to see if the rotor RPM would drop with a load and it did as I've seen it do before.(/slightly-offtopic) It's interesting that the 12V battery draws more than twice the current of the 6V battery with the same setup. I guess that means that the resistance I have set up on the trigger side (680 ohms, 'natch) is more closely matched (or 'tuned') to the 6V battery than to the 12V. The resistor isn't soldered in yet, so this calls for some experimentation. :thumbsup: One thing I notice about John Bedini's circuits is that there are no pots in any of them. Apparently he knows his coils/circuits well enough to choose an appropriate resistance and leave it at that.

One other item of note is that the current consumption seems to only go up no matter what voltage I put on it. Which of course makes me wonder if my setup is correct, since it's supposed to speed up and then have the current draw go down. But then again, perhaps that effect can't and/or doesn't occur in a single coil setup--I'm eager to get the multi-coil going. ;) It also could be that I have lousy bearings and that the motor is trying to overcome that but just can't.

In answer to your question, Aaron, yes, I have seen John's picture of the magnetic fields around the rotor. It's funny, I always assumed those spokes were north fields. It sheds a whole new light on things to see that those are south fields! Yes, I tried magnets in those spaces and I have to tell you, it was a little freaky to see the north face of a free magnet stick in between two rotor magnets which, as you know, are north facing out! :eek: John was right when he said this machine was deceptively simple. ;)

Shamus
08-21-2007, 08:41 PM
Ok, first the results, then the analysis:


Value (ohms) Measured mA@12V Notes
---------------------------------------------------------------------
680 678 230
820 818 210
1200 1184 170
1200+180 1363.6 150
1200+180+2.2 1366.6 150
1200+180+10 1374.3 150 Hung at 140 mA then stayed at 150 mA
1200+180+15 1379.4 150 Low resonance once spinning, spun up to high RPM; 120 mA with load
1200+180+22 1386.6 190 Weak resonance, low pitch, spun up to low RPM
1200+180+33 1397.1 190 Resonance, lower pitched, spun up to low RPM
1200+180+39 1403.3 190 Resonance, lower pitched, spun up to low RPM
1200+270 1452 Resonance, lower pitched, would not spin up
1200+390 1584 Resonance, lower pitched, would not spin up
1800 1784 370 mA resonance seen, went negative (!) amps, no resonance after that; would not spin up
2700 2680 Resonance, higher pitched, would not spin up
.


It was pretty surprising to find self-resonant behavior--I can see how people could get distracted by it. ;) It's also easy to see why the coil resists the rotor in that mode, since the circuit no longer self-regulates at that point. The rotor would have to be turning at the resonant frequency to stay spinning! :p

My meter can only measure down two significant digits at these amperages, so I'm pretty sure there's some differentiation at those levels marked 150 mA. In particular, I'm thinking that 1374.3 ohm is probably closer to 150 mA than the other values.

I'm also finally seeing the 'shifting into high gear' phenomenon that you were talking about, Aaron, with the power consumption going down as the RPM goes up. :blowout: It seems tuning is the key here. :thumbsup:

amigo
08-22-2007, 02:58 AM
Hello everyone,

Thought to make a first post here since I will have some questions about my contraption that I've built...I mean Bedini Motor. I can say that it actually works but I have some questions/concerns that I'd like feedback on.

I will soon post photos of my motor as well as my Fluke scope waveform because one of the questions relates to the signal, right now I just thought to make a first post...

Aaron
08-22-2007, 06:45 AM
Bedini SG (roller skate wheel motor) video posted on youtube.

YouTube - Bedini SG - Schoolgirl - Bare basic model (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq2fZCGmwD4)

Shamus
08-22-2007, 05:15 PM
A few days ago I got some sealed lead-acid 12V batteries rated at 7Ah and so today I decided to give it a shot. I checked the resting voltage of the battery I was going to use and it was sitting at 12.80V. I tried to measure the amps coming out of it but I nearly burned up my wires in trying to do so. :eek: I think the meter was reading around 15A or so before I realized what was happening to my wires. :p

So anyway, I hooked it up to my setup (with 1374 ohms) and got lots of noise out of my coil and strong repulsion on the rotor. The amp reading was negative. Something strange was going on here... :p

So I pulled off the resistors and stuck what I thought was 680 ohm resistor in and this time it spun right up. The current draw was around 540 mA (!) while the RPM was low. Well, it turns out that I mistook a black band for brown and so it was really 68 ohms on the trigger. A bit on the low side. :thumbsup:

I then put an honest-to-God 680 ohm resistor in place and it showed resonance right away. No chance of starting the rotor there. I substituted a 390 ohm and this time no resonance in the coil although the current draw was around 390 mA with an RPM somewhere in the middle range of what I've seen with this setup.

With around 490 ohms the RPM did go up while the draw went to around 360 mA. I had to stop testing, though, because I noticed that the resistors were getting extremely hot! Now these are only rated at 1/4W, but still, there shouldn't be that much juice flowing on the trigger side, should there? :confused: I mean, we're talking mV/mA range here on the trigger side. At any rate, I'm off to get some beefier resistors so I don't have to worry about them burning up.

On a side note, I figured it might be useful to power this thing from a stock wall-wart PSU. I found one rated for 9VDC at 1A, but it turns out these labels lie. I measured 12.83V coming out (hey, it looks just like a fresh battery! :D) at around 5A or so. So after my experiments with the lead-acid battery came to a screeching halt, I decided to try to power the current setup (at 490 ohms) with the PSU. It spun up to high RPM with only around a 270 mA draw.

Now I'm really confused here. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that the battery, with it's higher amps, should be pushing more current through this circuit than the PSU which is putting out about three times less amps. But it seems like the current draw should be the same, no?

On another side note, there's a good lesson here about resistor selection. It seems that the optimal resistance depends heavily on the voltage being supplied on the front end. I checked the voltage on the 12V battery (made up of 1.5V cells) and it was around 10.5V. Boy, do I feel foolish. :o (/me smacks forehead)

Aaron
08-22-2007, 07:35 PM
Hi Shamus,

On John's coils, I believe he uses about 100 feet per wire.

For the pots, you can put one in line with a resistor. Hook a scope to it. When you slowly start turning your wheel you might see 4 spikes per pulse...when up to speed you only want to see 1 spike per pulse...turn the pot until you only get 1, measure the total resistance, then replace with fixed resistor of the closest value to the tuned resistance. If you don't have a scope, you can use a radio or something else to hear or see the spikes.

1374 is quite high and if you hear noise from the coil, it is self oscillating...definitely needs less.

Also, can tune the circuits with a bulb in line with the resistor. I'll find reference for this. Also, can put 90v neon bulb across the collector and emitter as protection.

Kevin
08-22-2007, 11:48 PM
Wow, for years the only person I had to talk to about the exciting things I was discovering while building and experimenting with with the BSG was Aaron....

oh, yes, there were those that said, "Hey can you build one for me to power my house", but they were not the least bit interested in building one themselves and understanding what all was going on.

Now with Shamus, amigo and others, it is fun to share in what we are/have learned!

Shamus, I too could hear the harmonic resonance while the wheel was standing still. Since I had a pot in my circuit I could change the pitch of the sound by just turning it. However, I was never able to charge a battery without the wheel spinning.

Another thing that I tried was to hook up a little bicycle generator to try and capture some of the mechanical energy. I was able to do that, however, the generator put a load on the wheel causing it to draw more energy from the source battery. Thus my net gain did not improve at all.

I do believe on my next generation it will be large enough (heavy enough) that I should be able to capture some of the mechanical energy and experience a net gain. However, that is yet to be proven or dis proven.

Amigo, please post your pics and experiences!

A few other misc. notes:

I have almost always used the neon bulbs to protect the circuits. The few times I did not I burned up the transistors.

I have a BK Precision Model 600 Battery Capacitance Analyzer that I have used to measure energy input into batteries that I have charged. It gives one a general idea on what kind of "charge" you are putting into a battery. However, the best way is to actually use the battery and measure the energy being used over a period of time (real-world situations).

B&K Precision - PDF Viewer (http://www.bkprecision.com/www/np_pdf.asp?m=600)

I have also experimented with using 24 volt input....I did not achieve as high a COP rating with 24 volts as 12 volts.

I have had some critics say that my little unit was picking up radiant energy from the electricity in the walls and ceilings...that if the electricity went off, I would not be able to put more energy into the batteries that I was charging than I was taking out of the source battery. Soooo, at the time I was living in a remote area on the island of Maui. I went up into the jungle (about a kilometer from the nearest structure, overhead or underground wire, etc. The unit worked exactly the same. Maybe 1 kilometer is not far enough away, but I did not want to hike any further through the jungle! :rofl:

My overriding motivation in all this is to be able to generate electricity without having to have an external fuel source that I was dependent on others for. So, I have not spent near as much time understanding all the minutiae as I have spent my time experimenting, tuning, refining to get the most amount of energy stored in my batteries for the amount spent running the charger.

My best rendition so far can consistently produce 1.9 amps output for every 1 am input.

Oh! Another thing! The longer you charge a battery with these units the more the better the battery works! Aaron can expand further on this, it is referred to as conditioning the battery. Bottom line-in real world applications: Once you have charged and discharged a battery for several weeks (or longer) using this charger, the more energy the battery will store per amp expended to charge it! :)

Shamus, I hear you about spending an hour here and there to work on my next rendition. I sat down and looked at the plans again. Whew...32 circuits, 8 coils....I really do not want to do all soldering for those circuit boards. I don't mind winding the coils as much, but I am going to find someone to do the soldering for me. :eek:

amigo
08-22-2007, 11:53 PM
Hi Shamus,
For the pots, you can put one in line with a resistor. Hook a scope to it. When you slowly start turning your wheel you might see 4 spikes per pulse...when up to speed you only want to see 1 spike per pulse...turn the pot until you only get 1, measure the total resistance, then replace with fixed resistor of the closest value to the tuned resistance. If you don't have a scope, you can use a radio or something else to hear or see the spikes..

My setup has a 100 ohm and 1k rheostat in the base, NE-2 (EC), 1N914 (EB), 1N4005 on the output from collector (when second battery is connected).
Coil probably has around 450 winds 26/24AWG with usual 1/16" copper coated rods (R45 not R60 though it shouldn't matter, that quality only applies to welding application)
In the source battery I use 8x1.2V NiMh 2300mAh or a 12V 1.2 Ah gel battery.

I guess you've just answered one of my questions above, I have been seeing more than one trigger per cycle which sort of baffled me? I know JB is talking about the "h" waveform and I have seen it on my scope from time to time, but it is always preceded by couple of more spikes. Most I could get it is one or two spikes and an "h".

What bugs me even more is that I get quite different waveforms depending on the batteries I use. I'm attaching some examples...

First scope photo shows just a motor setup (no second battery) while the second one has a second battery in (don't mind the noise in the waveform, comes from the AC adapter scope is hooked up to).

When I wind the rheostat to what I think is over 1k resistance, I eventually reach self-oscillation point, but the waveform changes as well and becomes more uniform, with consistent spikes, sometimes as large as 200V.

I think my disc/magnet assembly needs to be reworked, I did not have bearing assemblies or an axle, so I used bearings from a broken CD-ROM unit and as a result the disc with magnets is suspended above the coil, held by the aluminium bar across.

amigo
08-23-2007, 12:08 AM
Here's what I also wonder and if it sounds newbieish - it is, should the neon bulb turn on as you wind the pot towards the higher resistance on the base circuit?

I have tried different combos, things like 10 ohm resistor and 25 ohm rheostat as well as 100 ohm resistor and 1 K rheostat, but I noticed that there's a threshold when the NE-2 lights up and starts pulsing at some low resistance and then it just gets brighter and pulsing starts changing into constant light.

I also forgot to note that my coil in the photo there is wound the opposite way (I'm left-handed and I blame this right-hander's world for making me do so :) ) but it still appears to be working.

Need I say that I'm glad that there's at least three more people here who post on a daily basis keeping our little adventure going. I know charging batteries and proving it works is fun, but perhaps we could do something more practical with this, applicable to our daily lives.

Practical alternative energy is not really my primary field of interest, though I have been following it for years now, at least the theoretical part.
Reason I wanted to try JB's motor was because it produces radiant energy and I'd like to use it as a source in another experiment...

Should I elaborate on that here or start another thread elsewhere on this board? I would like to get some feedback from people with more experience in this than myself, so I do not go chasing "windmills" for no reason, and I do have your attention here. ;)

Aaron
08-25-2007, 06:17 AM
Hi Amigo,

Yes, when in self oscillation, the off on is so fast that the potential is compressed in time so you can get some very high voltage spikes.

You may find the wheel gets faster with a plastic bar instead of aluminum. As the magnets pass the aluminum bar, they induce counter currents in the aluminum that repel and probably slow the rotor slightly. It is ok if the magnets are embedded in an aluminum rotor turning with the magnets but very different from a part of the frame that is aluminum.

If the neon doesn't light that is ok, if it does light that is ok too. Think of the neon as an overshoot gap where if the voltage is too high and could fry the transistor, it will just be partly consumed and diverted by the neon. Like Kevin said, has fried some transistors without. He was using some more heavy duty multi coil setups compared to these smaller versions so becomes more necessary but good to get a feel for what they do.

Feel free to start a new thread on the project you want to apply radiant energy to.

amigo
08-28-2007, 01:46 AM
Hello again,

Well, I managed to improve my contraption by several levels of magnitude.

I have moved the shaft to horizontal position, got real bearing assemblies, and changed my rotor to be more sturdy (four clear plastic discs from blank CD-R cases glued together :) ), as well as put more powerful magnets (Electronics Goldmine G16370, $0.40 each) which I found to be one of the key elements. My older smaller magnets (see pictures above) did not seem sufficient enough - with the new ones rotor requires just a gentle push to start.

I still think my coil is wound in a wrong way (damn you right-handers World) so it might have to unwind and wind again (sigh). Though it still works so what gives?

I've hooked a mA meter to the circuit and a 10 ohm resistor to the secondary/charging output, so I can fine tune the rheostat and transistor base voltage to lowest current usage from the primary.
Amazingly enough this assembly can draw as low as 50mA (or even less) which with the 8x1.2V 2300mAh batteries I use to test with means I can run hours/days? :)

This has pretty much encouraged me (by a number of folds) to proceed into next stages and acquire a more serious quantity of magnet wire and wind more coils :D

adam ant
08-28-2007, 02:24 AM
hey amigo, your setup looks really good. i havnt yet started to build this stuff yet, im still gathering data, and resources before i begin.

with having a coil situated only on one side of your rotor, do you experience an unbalanced rotation? by that i mean is there unequal stress(on your bearings) on one side due to the electromagnetic "pressure" from your coil?

thanks-

bryan

amigo
08-28-2007, 03:35 AM
hey amigo, your setup looks really good. i havnt yet started to build this stuff yet, im still gathering data, and resources before i begin.

with having a coil situated only on one side of your rotor, do you experience an unbalanced rotation? by that i mean is there unequal stress(on your bearings) on one side due to the electromagnetic "pressure" from your coil?

thanks-

bryan

Hi Bryan

I think fabrication in home environment to begin with is a nightmare. I live in a high-rise apartment building so you can imagine a limited amount of woodwork and metalwork one can do.

Now, my rotor appears unbalanced as it is, when I was gluing plastic discs together I think I put too much glue in a layer on one side. Then, because I mounted two bearings on the sides of the rotor and did not have a proper mounting points the whole thing seems to be off axis slightly (heck I'm lucky it spins without too much wobble).

I do not have means to measure any stress except to visually discern that there is some drag happening. I think the better setup is the roller skate wheel one where gravity aids the process.

I suggest you start somewhere, see what kind of materials you can gather and build your first prototype. Finding the right parts sometimes proves to be a real pain - not everyone has a machine shop available to them. Besides, your SSG can't look worse than my first one ;)

From there you will realize mistakes and correct them on your own pretty fast. I was amazed myself with ideas I came up to fix things after the first trial run, even though I had to scourge for parts and come up with all kinds of ways to supplement the lack of real machined components.

adam ant
08-28-2007, 04:16 AM
ive never tried machining before, but one of my main hobbies is woodworking.
building the housing wouldnt be the problem, just gathering the circuit materials. i currently own a pets tore that sucks the life out of me, with 14 hours+ per day 6 days a week, plus sundays at auctions, seminars, family gatherings, and finally home maintenance, my hands are full. (not to mention my consortium group)

im sure i have all of the materials in my shop now, but i havnt even been down there in almost 2 years.

you could always use a Lazy Susan plate for your rotor. you can buy them brand new for less than 7$ from Rockler or maybe even SEARS.. (not sure where you live). it consists of two metallic plates with roller bearings in between. they are also used for mounting pivoting stools, VERY sturdy, and prettty smooth travel. or if you have an old stool, you could take it off of that. (i always see neighbors throwing those out)

you can measure the degree of tilt with a simple method. run your machine, then measure the gap of the rotor to the closest flat surface. repeat this for your other side. draw it out on paper, connect the dots and use a compass to find your degree of error.

it looks to me if you put a second coil on the other side, it would balance everything out.

this sunday i will go down and blow the dust off everything, and see if i cant start on this.

-b

Kevin
08-29-2007, 06:32 AM
I built several different units...one with a roller blade wheel, another with plastic, even one out of wood. The roller blade wheel was too small, the plastic and wood I could not get balanced (no machine shop).

I finally broke down and went to walmart and bought a child's bicycle and used the front wheel off of it. That worked best for me. I have over 27,000,000 revolutions on it and the bearing are still good - just kept them well greased. :rofl:

adam ant
08-29-2007, 03:00 PM
thats a great idea, probably cheaper in the long run also i imagine.


i cant wait until i can get back into my shop. i actually found my multi-meter, a few AC motors, wire and a ton of Neo magnets.

you know, the one bad thing about the internet is the distance away from everyone. would be nice to walk over to anothers shop and ask questions and actually point to the problem. it would be easier to work together as well. one person builds the housings, one winds the coils, etc. would be a lot more efficient.

-b

amigo
08-30-2007, 12:09 AM
...
I have over 27,000,000 revolutions on it and the bearing are still good - just kept them well greased. :rofl:



LOL, how did you figure that number out, don't tell me you sat there and counted? :D

amigo
08-30-2007, 12:14 AM
...
you know, the one bad thing about the internet is the distance away from everyone. would be nice to walk over to anothers shop and ask questions and actually point to the problem. it would be easier to work together as well. one person builds the housings, one winds the coils, etc. would be a lot more efficient.

-b

Now that would be truly fantastic if only we did not have the distance separating all of us. I often thought about seeking people who are doing similar things in my area, but I'm not sure where to look and posting a public call on the Web might draw un-necessary attention ;)

I guess the best I can do is go visit David Hamel who's probably two or so hours away by car, though I'd still have to get a hold of him first and see if he still accepts visitors...

adam ant
08-30-2007, 01:05 AM
LOL, how did you figure that number out, don't tell me you sat there and counted?

i bet he used a tachometer and figured the revolutions per hour, then multiplied that by an estimated average hour per day usage, multiple by months, years etc.

if he timed his RPM's at 300 all he would need to do is measure the first minute. multiply 300 times lets say 60 minutes for RPH per day = 18,000RPH times lets say 8 hours = 144,000RPD
and if he did this every day 144,000* 364 = 52,416,000
and with his revolutions 52,416,000/27,000,000= 1.94years.

rough guess.

Kevin
08-30-2007, 06:38 AM
i bet he used a tachometer and figured the revolutions per hour, then multiplied that by an estimated average hour per day usage, multiple by months, years etc.

if he timed his RPM's at 3,000 all he would need to do is measure the first minute. multiply 3,000 times lets say 8 hours per day = 24,000 RPD
and if he did this every day 24,000 * 364 = 8,736,000
and with his revolutions 24,000,000/8,726,000 = 3.09 years.

rough guess.

Adam,

Yes, that is how I came to that estimate of 27,000,000.

I have a tachometer. The best tuning I did with my main unit put it right at 300 rpm.

300 rpm x 60 minutes = 18,000 rphour

I only stop the unit for a few minutes at a time to make measurements, change batteries, etc.

and I have well over 1000 hours documented, and probably at least another 500 hours undocumented testing. (I ran it pretty much 24 hours a day for many months, only stopping it to work on it)

1500 x 18,000 (rph) = 27,000,000 total revolutions. As I am typing this I realize that is a the low side estimate, because I have hundreds of hours that I was running up at over 500 rpm, but did not stay there because the unit did not give me as much net gain as it did at the lower rpm.

:)

adam ant
08-30-2007, 08:16 AM
HOLY SMOKES!! 24 hours a day?!?!?!
i cannot believe you havnt built the home power unit yet!!

i need to hurry up and jump on this bandwagon.


wow :notworthy:

amigo
08-31-2007, 02:35 AM
I am wondering whether my contraption can actually be used to charge batteries because I have been trying without any visible success. My coil does not have 800 winds or the same size as "prescribed", but JB said geometry is not an issue.

I'm hoping that the "Free Energy Generation" book I've ordered will have more answers for me because it all looks nice on paper and in the videos. The monopole motor is spinning but that's as far as it goes and when it comes to exact replication of the effects JB is getting it al becomes a different story. :confused:

adam ant
08-31-2007, 02:45 AM
well, compair his years and years of testing an experience to yours... how does it compair? im willing to wager that he had MANY frustrating failures before he got it right.

patience, it will happen... otherwise we can take a field trip to Kevins house and ask to borrow his !!! hahaha only kidding Kevin.

amigo
08-31-2007, 02:54 AM
I'm just saying that it should be easier to reproduce than this for the exact reason that JB has spent his life's work on this and he had ironed out the quirks the best he could. Thus the collective consciousness/knowledge has been supplemented with that information and it should get easier to accomplish in shorter time what it took him originally.

I look at it this way, if some poor schmuck eons ago burnt his/her hand in fire, none of us should have to put their hand into fire to prove it'll get burnt again (or to experience it) - we already have that lesson learned. :)

adam ant
08-31-2007, 04:09 AM
point taken.

and i doubt anyone would sell a working one. as in the past, what usually happens is the person that has all the secrets dies with all the secrets, and their lifes work is wasted. (stan, nikola, gray, etc.)

Aaron
08-31-2007, 10:04 AM
Hi Amigo,

On the smaller models, they won't do big practical charging but works well for very small batts. I would definitely learn as much as you can on these small motors before going big.

For bigger practical use, the 5 wire coils (4 power 1 trigger) of about 18 awg and about 100' per coil are much better. Also picture about 6 of these coils around one rotor.

It takes time to learn to tune, etc... and isn't over night. also, it is important the batts getting charged are properly conditioned. charge discharge, repeat, etc...

There are a lot of great yahoo groups on the Bedini stuff but despite a lot of good info mixed in with the background noise, I see people trying to reinvent Bedini's circuits over and over and over and over and over.

Just keep it simple. Learn what you can from the small model, learn to tune it get a feel for it and really meditate on it. You have to mix some intuitive feel with logic and you'll be ok. Even if you don't get over 1.0 COP doesn't matter. If you can have the best way to charge batteries in the world, increase their capacity and extend their life...you are much more ahead than most people.

amigo
08-31-2007, 01:46 PM
Hi Amigo,

On the smaller models, they won't do big practical charging but works well for very small batts. I would definitely learn as much as you can on these small motors before going big.

For bigger practical use, the 5 wire coils (4 power 1 trigger) of about 18 awg and about 100' per coil are much better. Also picture about 6 of these coils around one rotor.

It takes time to learn to tune, etc... and isn't over night. also, it is important the batts getting charged are properly conditioned. charge discharge, repeat, etc...

There are a lot of great yahoo groups on the Bedini stuff but despite a lot of good info mixed in with the background noise, I see people trying to reinvent Bedini's circuits over and over and over and over and over.

Just keep it simple. Learn what you can from the small model, learn to tune it get a feel for it and really meditate on it. You have to mix some intuitive feel with logic and you'll be ok. Even if you don't get over 1.0 COP doesn't matter. If you can have the best way to charge batteries in the world, increase their capacity and extend their life...you are much more ahead than most people.

I simply do not have the means to build anything larger, I live in a 2 bdrm apt. so space is a big limitation. My hope was to see similar results with any size device because JB said geometry was not an issue.

But I totally agree, it is a learning experience and I have learnt heaps more than what I knew when I begun this journey.

As far as the Yahoo groups, I have them all bookmarked but never actually went to read posts. I feel it will take me days to catch up on things and that's why I have chosen a smaller forum (no offense) - this one. It just has a more homey feel to it and a personal touch by the members here. You sooner develop that belonging feeling... :)

Thanks.

Shamus
09-11-2007, 09:21 PM
Now that I know what happens when a magnet passes by a coil, I can see there were some flaws in my original characterization. Hopefully this will set that straight. :)

Looking at the first picture, we see a magnet coming in towards a coil, attracted towards the iron core. As it approaches it induces a small current in both coils (represented on the schematic as small batteries). In both cases, the current is blocked and so nothing happens.

Moving on to picture #2: Once the magnet passes the center of the coil, the current reverses direction. At this point, current flows in the trigger loop thus also biasing the transistor on. Also, during this whole process, the iron core of the coil has become a temporary magnet with the south pole at the top and the north pole at the bottom.

On to picture #3. Now that the transistor is biased on, current is free to flow from the battery through the transistor and on into the coil. This causes the magnetic field in the core to abruptly switch polarity, causing a sharp gradient in the local virtual particle flux in the near vicinity of the coil and the appearance of radiant energy. The scalar south pole may also play a part in the radiant event as well--my knowledge in this area is still woefully incomplete. :)

At any rate, the magnet gets a strong kick away (the scalar south may also be attracted in at the same time, YMMV) from the north pole that is now manifest at the top. As the magnet moves away, the current in the trigger wire stops and so the transistor stops conducting and shuts off the battery. Some of the radiant energy flows to the source battery, keeping it from running down too quickly. As the next magnet comes in, the cycle repeats.

Anyhow, that's how I see it. Any comments and clarifications are most welcome! :thumbsup:

Aaron
09-12-2007, 01:42 AM
Hi Shamus,

These diagrams looks great and I'm doing my best to keep track of what you're showing.

In the middle pick you have electron current moving into the base and up through the emitter at the same time. Would those oppose each other?

It is personally difficult for me to follow circuits based on electron current.

With 3 flows around a circuit:

1. Pos potential moving from + on dipole towards negative.
2. Neg potential moving from - on dipole towards positive.
3. Electron current moving from - on dipole towards positive.

I usually look at circuits in terms of how is the positive flow moving. Then I automatically know that the electron current is opposing that.

Shamus
09-12-2007, 03:23 PM
Hi Aaron,

You're probably right about the transistor, since it is an NPN type the current would probably flow out of the base towards the current loop on the trigger side--I don't know all that much about them, so this is another hole in my knowledge. :( Any pointers to good material on the subject would be most welcome. Other than that, I made diagram #2 show the current flow just before the base is biased. So I probably should have clarified that. :)

For me personally, I have to think in terms of electron flow in order to think about how the circuit works--I blame the physics classes I took at uni for that. ;) But yes, you could draw flows going out of the positive ends of the little batteries and everything as I've described it above would still hold true. :)

On other thing of note here is the resistor. What that does, from what I can see, is narrow the amount of time that the base of the transistor is biased. So if you have a low ohmage there, the base of the resistor will see most of that negative sine wave pulse. As the ohms go up, the base will see less and less of that wave (think of the amplitude of the negative wave going towards the zero line). Once you have so much ohmage that the base doesn't bias on, then you have self-oscillatory behavior which I don't fully comprehend at the moment. But the thing to keep in mind is that this circuit isn't configured to properly handle that. :thumbsup:

Shamus
09-13-2007, 12:29 PM
One other thing that I forgot to mention is that fully understanding what's going on in this circuit is the key that will unlock the pendulum's black box. :D

Since it's been done (by John) and is in the collective unconscious, it should be a trivial thing to unlock that sucker. :thumbsup:

ERKAN
09-23-2007, 05:26 PM
Hi guys,
This is my first post. I am trying to make SSG but I am doing something wrong and cannot see what. My coil is 2" long, 680 winds of #23 and #26 and as a core I am using a 3/8" bolt. Rotor is roller blade with six 1/4" neo magnets. Other parts are 2n3055, 10 ohm and 1n4007 diode. Problem is that rotor will not rotate, I mean I don't have a motor. I start the wheel and after 3 seconds it stops. I am getting 3A at the coil. I would appreciate any help.
Thanks
Erkan

Jetijs
09-23-2007, 06:19 PM
3A is way too much current for such a small setup. It should rather be up to 100mA or less. Check your wiring. Also do not use neo magnets, that could be one of your problems. Is your transistor alive? Maybe you have blown your transistor. Also Im thinking, that the iron bolt could be saturated by strong neo magnets and can't demagnetize very fast. Try some other core material.

excaliburm_26
09-23-2007, 07:32 PM
hi i am also a new member of your wonderful message board.
your workship and your prototypes pushed me to do one for me and try to learn what is radiant energy.
i have also same problem like erhan.
2 reasons could cause this problem
1- the transistor burned.
2- my coil wires are too thin. it is made from 0.20mm and 0.25mm wires. i dont know the exact no of the wires. but the 0.65 mm was 16 . and i think 23 is nearly 0.20 mm.

I can turn my wheel which is made of 7 cds glued together by a magnetic switch and a coil made from one wire 1.15 mm.
10 v is enough to turn my wheel with 4 magnets.
it is a simple motor. the swith is changing the poles. and it is turning.
i made this prototype to find where i do wrong with SG wheel.
it is not working with 2 wired coil..
may be the transistor is wrong. but i tried 3 different 3055 TO-3
the result is same.
how can i check if my coil is alive?
how can i check also transistor is alive?

if i am not wrong when i read your posts i understand that the transistor is doing what my magnetic switch do?
the current coming from thin wire reaches to transistor BASE and it opens emitor and collector legs like a switch.
by this way the top of the coil gets north pole and it pushes the magnet.
after the magnet leaves the coil the transistor cuts the current until a magnet comes infront of coil.and it goes on like this.
i hope i dont bother you with this long message..:)
it took my 5 minutes to turn the wheel with mono winded coil and with a magnetic switch but ...:)
2 days passed and i couldnt succed to turn this damn wheel with transistor and bi polar coils..:)
i hope you will help me other wise i will throw this from the window:P
have a nice day

Jetijs
09-23-2007, 07:55 PM
excaliburm_26,
there are number of things that you could be doing wrong. At first go to
Bedini_Monopole3 : Bedini_Monopole3 (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_Monopole3/)
and see if your setup is wired exactly like in the picture in the link above.
I think, that you could use a magnetic switch instead of the other winding, because the main thing here is to capture the BEMF spike that appears when the transistor is switched off. And that happens either way. The problem with magnetic switch may be that the switch can not operate at high frequency thus limiting the maximum speed of the motor. Also you need to tune the system by placing the switch at a correct place and distance from the magnets. With a bifillar coil, you do not need to do that, the bifilar coil makes the circuit selftrigger at the exact right moment. Check your wire ends of your bifillar coil!
Hope this helps. ;)

Shamus
09-23-2007, 09:23 PM
I might add that to check your bifilar coil, you should energize the ends and make sure that it's repulsing a magnet. You should energize the smaller wires, then the larger wires. If those repulse a magnet, then you should check to make sure that when you energize one of the small wires with one of the larger wires that nothings happens (no shorts between the small wires and the large wires).

If those tests come out positive, then you need to look at some other part of the system. :)

amigo
09-24-2007, 01:21 AM
For the benefit of everyone, just so we are on the same page.

This was screen grabbed from "A Practical Guide to Free Energy Devices".

excaliburm_26
09-24-2007, 08:22 AM
well shamus
i didnt try your method but i use multimeter if there is a cut between thick wire and thin wire.
it seems there is no cut.
when i plug the thin wire to battery i can measure the voltage .(it works)
when i plug the thick wire i can also measure the voltage (it works)

but there is something strange
i can see the voltage between my wires and it shows it is working.
but when i switch my multimeter to diode testing mode.
there is no sound between wires. if i am not wrong if i give pulse from the top of the wire i have to hear the beep sound when i touch the bottom of the wire?
it only gives a value but no beep.
the big wire gives 0.20
the small wire gives 0.50 value. :)
it is nonsense. if no beep it means there is a cut.
if there is a cut how i can get voltage from the other side?
hehehe :D it getting really interesting

and amigo thanks for the table.. it is really very usefull

adam ant
09-24-2007, 03:45 PM
i have been gathering items to make the SG, and i think i found the perfect rotor. i wanted to share it with the group because it is such a cheap and easy item.

http://mactackle.com/secureshopping/images/quantum_optix_spinning_reel.jpg

it is very easy to fit a plastic of wooden disc over the bail area (the part that spins). you can remove the handle if it is in the way, OR you could attach a second disc to that with magnets for a seperate generator. also, the spool moves up and down, which could have another magnet attached to it, which would spin a secondary magnet rotor for free.

these can be found at MANY garage sales, flea markets, and even online. the throw on these is so smooth and one fast turn will cause the reel to spin for quite a while. bearing quality is top notch, and due to the nature of the reel, it is easy to mount them anywhere.

otherwise, i found very cheap ceramic hybrid bearings on ebay through a skateboard store. 6 for $25 + $4.50 shipping. here is another one that is cheaper : 8 CERAMIC ABEC 7 SKATE SKATEBOARD BEARINGS NR - (eBay item 160160512792 end time Sep-25-07 05:13:07 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/8-CERAMIC-ABEC-7-SKATE-SKATEBOARD-BEARINGS-NR_W0QQitemZ160160512792QQihZ006QQcategoryZ36624QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


-bryan

Aaron
09-25-2007, 02:48 AM
Hi Bryan,

It seems that Rick Friedrich is getting good results converting a brushless muffin fan into an SG.

http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/091807.htm

adam ant
09-25-2007, 04:04 PM
wow, that is awesome... not too bad a price either.

Shamus
09-25-2007, 04:44 PM
Hey Aaron, I've been meaning to ask, but are you a member of the elite Bedini_Monopole list and if you are, what do you have to do to get in?

It seems that talking about it on Bedini_Monopole3 is like talking about Fight Club--the first rule of Bedini_Monopole is that you don't talk about Bedini_Monopole! :p

Aaron
09-26-2007, 08:29 PM
Hi Shamus,

I'm not a member of that group now and don't remember if I ever was.
The instructions on how to join are listed on their homepage:

The CONDITIONS for joining and remaining on these lists are:

1. Giving your full real name;
2. Building an Energizer as directed on the above linked page;
3. Being able to actively contribute to this research in performing simple tests from month to month and reporting the results.

There are quite a few Bedini groups and I would be very picky where I spend my time. There isn't any one in particular I would recommend but you could join as many as there are and feel them out. I would go thru the photos and files sections of each one and download everything of value to you. In only a few days, you can see by the posts the personality of usefulness of the group.

amigo
09-26-2007, 10:38 PM
I guess what Aaron said he put "between the lines" so I'll try to read that part of the text. (of course it's just my opinion and I could be wrong) :)

The public Bedini_monopole3 group seems to me to sometimes focus on a pissing contest between certain members, and at other times promoting kits built and sold by founding members. Nothing wrong with the later though, selling kits is fine since some people aren't savvy in hunting down materials themselves. I just feel that there's some "bad blood" between certain members either because their egos are clashing or they are very territorial (alpha males?).

In any case, majority of posts and members are very useful and there's plenty to learn from their experiences. Lots of various designs and ideas in the photo gallery and file section as well.

What I wonder about is the Bedini_Window_Energizer group which is totally closed?! :thinking:

I just hope it is not one of those secret, "no Homers", elitist Kabbalah groups where you have to become a satanist to join.
Hehe, ok I'm kidding, but I do not condone any kind of secret activity when it comes to a even a possibility of freeing our World. There are already to many things kept away from us - for our own sake (or so our Overlords tell us).

adam ant
09-27-2007, 12:59 AM
ya, i have almost leached all the info i need from this site, then movin on
HAHAHAHA IM ONLY KIDDING!! i like this group, it is very peaceful and quiet.

i have seen on some of those sites, some of the same attitudes that we get from mainstream scientists "THIS is the way to do it, NOT that way" and they become what i assume they hated in the beginning. some really snotty and arrogant people out there.

Shamus
09-27-2007, 01:02 AM
Thanks Aaron and muchas gracias, amigo. :) Sorry if I put you on the spot there, but it's been a frustrating month of no major results to report. :wall: :(

At any rate, I thought it might be worthwhile to get into the Bedini_Monopole group because John Bedini contributes there. Also, from what I've seen, quite a few people on the Bedini_Monopole3 group have personal contact with John. This was all deduced from trying to find every shred of text that John put out there on the web (since the FEG book says all his stuff is on the internet but that's not entirely true anymore), and quite some time tracking down all his posts on the Bedini_SG group.

I know John has popped in here (rarely!) from time to time, and I'm glad when he does. It still boggles my mind that so many people on the Bedini_SG group wouldn't put out even the slightest effort and build a machine, especially when it's so damned easy! :thinking:

So anyway, on a more hopeful note, I pulled the battery off of my wife's car (since it seemingly died) and put it on the SSG for a couple of hours and the thing seemed to accept the charge quite readily. Also, the car started without any problems. :D It seems that real lead-acid batteries respond better to this kind of charging than the SLA gel cell style of lead-acid battery. :thinking:

Aaron
09-27-2007, 03:58 AM
Hi Shamus,

Yes, the real liquid lead acids are much better than the gel cells. The gel cells work really well for learning and just to get your feet wet. I haven't really used deep cycles but more like motorcycle batts and car batts. Both liquid lead acids but not true deep cycles. They respond incredibly well.

I see a need that needs to be filled unless someone beats me to it :)

ERKAN
09-27-2007, 05:40 PM
I pulled the bolt out, tested the wires and they are OK. My problem was wiring the transistor. I messed up all connections to EBC. Now I am getting 0.3A and coil is humming. I tried to check what kind of flux I am getting and didn't look much at all. I tried with the wheel but nothing happened. Any idea what can be wrong?

Adam, I went to thrift store and bought the old inline skates for $3.99. I throw away the boots and now I have 8 wheels.
Erkan

adam ant
09-27-2007, 05:49 PM
i was going to do that, but im a big fishing buff and have tons of old reels laying around.

ERKAN
09-27-2007, 06:37 PM
I forgot to add I changed 10 ohm with 680 ohm and resistor and diode get very hot. When I disconnect the resistor there is no current flow.

kumaran
09-28-2007, 06:20 AM
Hi ERKAN,

I think you have fried the transistor. If you use 2N3055 transistor, do the following steps to check if the transistor still ok or not.


Set multimeter in diode mode.
Touch positive probe to transistor base and negative probe to transistor.
You should see readings or beep sound from your multimeter.
Now touch negative probe to transistor base and positive probe to transitor emitter.
There shouldn't be any readings or beep sound from multimeter. If does then replace new transistor.


Other info :

Bifilar wound 850 turns of #23 & #26 clockwise direction.
Use battery 12VDC only.
Positive #26 goes to 680 ohm then to transistor base and negative #26 goes to battery negative.
Positive #23 goes to battery positive and negative #23 goes to transistor collector.
Small push to rotor should rotate now.


Make the rotor rotate first then go for tuning.

ERKAN
09-29-2007, 02:53 AM
Checked everything what you guys said and still nothing. When I disconnect the resistor I get 0A for the circuit and 12V at transistor.

ERKAN
09-29-2007, 11:56 PM
I pulled everything appart. Then I took new diode, resistor and transistor. Now I get 111mA and litle of humming when magnet is on the coil. I also replaced the neo magnets with normal ones. Neo magnets were very small and the new ones are 3/4" diameter. But whele is still not spining. WhenI put the coil next to the magnet it repels. I don't have a core in my winding.
I have one question: "If you disconnect smaller wire winding should motor work?". When I disconnect the second coil I get 0 amps. If circuit is energized and than connect the smaller wire winding it is still 0 amps. I have to turn the power off and than urn it on in order to work.
What am I doing wrong?

kumaran
09-30-2007, 04:21 AM
Hi Ekran,

Can you give details of your setup?


No of turns for coil winding?
Gauge of wires used?
Components used like transistor, diodes and others?


Too little windings for trigger coil will not trigger the transistor. TO3 transistor casing is a bit tricky to identify base and emmiter. Check everything again. Bedini SSG should start easily if the components connected correctly.

ERKAN
09-30-2007, 06:03 AM
I am using transistor 2n3055, diode 1n4001, resistor 680 ohm, bifilar coil with 680 turns of #23 and #26. Rotor is wheel taken from inline skates with four 3/4" round magnets from Home depot. I don't have a core because I could't find R60 welding rods. Before I tried to use bolt but somebody said it is better not to use anything if you don't have R60.

Aaron
09-30-2007, 07:08 AM
Hi Erkan,

The welding rod is better than solid core, but and air core won't let the magnet induce enough to trigger the transistor. I would find some solid piece just for now at least until you get welding rod. I think that might do the trick.

obelix
09-30-2007, 09:23 AM
hello all,

until you receive yours R60 test with some nails, that does the trick for me !!

Obelix

amigo
09-30-2007, 01:12 PM
I have used galvanized steel wire (tie wire for fence repair?) found at Home Depot, for my core. I find it working well (or better than the welding rods) and it's easier to cut.

Shamus
10-01-2007, 12:43 AM
Like Aaron said, you have to have some kind of magnetizable metal for your core. The important thing is that it should resist the formation of eddy currents, so any of the things suggested above should be sufficient to get it to work. :)

ERKAN
10-01-2007, 05:52 AM
I tried putting the stainless steal bolt but still nothing. I start measuring voltages and currents in the coil and system so this is what I have:

12V battery DC
Current measured at the negative leg 111mA DC(I cannot measure AC)

#23 wire coil
Voltage DC 0.34V
Voltage AC 15.7V
Amperage DC 111mA

#26 wire coil
0.457 mA DC
Voltage AC 14.7V
Voltage DC 3 mV but this can be a mistake so read it 0.

Resistor
Same values as #23 wire coil

Diode reads some 0.7 VAC, 358mV DC

Just a reminder that for AC scale is 200V so it shows only one decimal.

Emitter collector and base collector show the same
25V AC only when I put positive read on collector and negative on emiter or base. When I flip it shows 0V.
11.47DC, positive lead on collector. It shows negative when I flip the leads.

Base emitter 0.3VDC and 0.1 VAC.

adam ant
10-01-2007, 04:19 PM
i believe that the collector to base should only go one way. you said that when you reverse it you get a negative number, this shouldnt be the case, it should read 0. it sounds like your transistor is fried.

adam ant
10-01-2007, 04:24 PM
yes,

base to collector should only read one way (not collector to base)
base to emmitter should read only one way (not emmitter to base)
emmitter to collector should read only 0, either way. (E to C only conducts when B is triggered)

i hope this helps

ERKAN
10-01-2007, 05:04 PM
These readings I obtained while the battery is connected. When the battery is off everything is as you said.

adam ant
10-01-2007, 06:04 PM
DOH!! i thought i was on to something there. sorry i couldnt help.

Shamus
10-01-2007, 07:40 PM
@ERKAN: If it's not turning, then there's a few things to look for:
Bearings. Your rotor should freewheel very easily; if it doesn't spin for at least a minute after giving it a good push then you need to fix that. The SG doesn't develop much torque, and it can't overcome bad bearings. Coil. You have to have enough turns on your coil to induce a current when a magnet passes by it. I've been able to get by with only 600 on my first attempts, but I had to give it a good spin to get it going. Also, you absolutely must have some kind of magnetizable core. Air cores won't work. :) Magnets. They should be strong, but not too strong. Neodymium magnets are too strong. If the ceramic magnets aren't working, then perhaps you can double or triple stack them so they're at the right field strength (I don't know what that would be, since I don't have the equipment to measure magnetic fields).

adam ant
10-01-2007, 07:43 PM
wait a moment!!! if your transistor is powered, and you are still getting a negative number from collector to base, wouldnt that be a PNP and not an NPN?

http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/images/transbce.gif

im not a transistor expert, and im not sure which way the collector is supposed to energize in a PNP vs NPN, but at least it is an idea.

Shamus
10-02-2007, 02:23 AM
I believe he said it was a 2N3055 which is an NPN. And the sign of the voltage he's reading depends on whether or not he's putting the (+) probe on the collector or the base. ;) ERKAN?

ERKAN
10-02-2007, 02:41 AM
Shamus you are correct. Thanks for your post on magnets and bearings. I don't think that the bearings are perfect so that can be the reason. I am thinking on converting the ceiling fan into bedini device. I don't know which one but I saw somebody already did it.

amigo
10-02-2007, 02:47 AM
Erkan,

Why don't you get the galvanized wire at Home Depot, the one I used is in the screws/nuts/bolts/chains section and is made by HTR or Royal, it says Galvanized Wire 16 GA (15M) on the plastic tag. It is very easy to cut and you can cram quite a few pieces tightly into your coil.

Not sure if others have asked but is your coil wiring proper?

If you have reversed the Norths of the winding(s) nothing will happen. Determine again which one is North pole by using the battery/magnet test on each of the trigger and drive coils, then label that side as North and top wire.

I cannot stress this much because I have been playing with a feedback transformer wound on a ferrite bead and at first it would not work until I realized that I have not reversed (as per schematics) the poles of the coil.

adam ant
10-02-2007, 03:17 AM
a simple compass will reveal North as well.

kumaran
10-02-2007, 03:35 AM
Erkan,

You may refer to this website (http://www.anzwers.org/free/kumaran/). I was experimenting Adams motor somewhere in 2002. Check the coil winding direction (clock wise) for north facing magnet. Also check how to modify hardisk to make a good rotor. I used 3 pieces of magnets and epoxy onto hardisk disc and 4 magnets for compact disk.

ERKAN
10-02-2007, 06:05 AM
I went on your web site and saw that you are winding left to right and then right to left. My coil is from left to right only. Am I wrong?
By the way I tried to jam stainless steel road and messed up something. Than I had pull out the wires to find the damaged wire so I probably lost 50 winds. That means I am down to about 600 winds. The worst part it is not working at all.

kumaran
10-02-2007, 09:07 AM
Erkan,

Sorry for my poor English to make you and others confuse. "left to right and right to left" is winding pattern. If start winding from left, wind until reach the right end and wind back to left. If you see the second picture under coil category, you will understand the winding direction (clockwise).

There are many types of winding patterns. Some use unidirection, some bifilar, cadeus coils and many more.

kumaran
10-02-2007, 09:26 AM
Hi Erkan,

Don't use SS bolts. It's not ferrerous material. Use nails of soft iron as coil stator core. For 600 turns of wire, the system should work without any problem. Here is the transistor (http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/components/tran.htm)page. Look at TO3 transistor and check if you have connected correctly. If does then just change to new transistor. Three leg transistor is straight forward design but not TO3.

Aaron
10-02-2007, 04:16 PM
Hi Erkan,

Please see my attachment in this post:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/365-bedini-schoolgirl-3.html#post2619

That is a pic of how the coil should be wound.

ERKAN
10-02-2007, 08:01 PM
Aaron,
I know that but my question is do you go in one direction and than cros back and than wind again in the same directon so all windings are in one direction or you gou up and down?

Jetijs
10-02-2007, 09:13 PM
ERKAN, I usually wind my coils in one direction up and down till I have the whole spool full of wire, all my SSG motors are operating well. Maybe this will help:
http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_Monopole3/photos/view/2a64?b=1
My advice for you is to join the Bedini_monopole3 group in yahoo groups. Its free. The you can browse the file and photo selection - alot of useful info there. Also search in the messages for coil winding :)

gypsie
10-13-2007, 11:35 PM
I just built my first SSG. I spinned the wheel ... and nothing. I checked the placement of all the parts and everything seems to be corectly put together. Then I checked the wires in my coil, I am using #26 magnet wire for trigger and #22 for power. When I attach 9V battery and light bulb to the #26 wire, light bulb lights up. Howerver when I attach battery and light bulb to #22 wire nothing happens. There is no electricity flowing through that wire. I've also cut a little bit of the #22 wire from the original spool I got from the bulkwire.com and attached it to 9V battery and light bulb and same result. No electricity running through it. Is there any special treatment one needs to do with the magnet magnet wire ends because of coating? I do not know what to think. Any help would be much appreciated.

Shamus
10-14-2007, 02:53 AM
I think Marcia already answered your question, but just in case you don't get that message... The magnet wire is coated, and you've got to strip off the coating on the ends in order to make sure that you get a good electrical connection. You also want to make sure that your coils aren't shorted out to each other as well.

It kinda goes without saying that if you don't have electricity flowing through your coils, nothing is going to happen with your SSG. ;)

ERKAN
10-30-2007, 06:14 AM
My new coil is 900 turns per Kumaran's web instructions. Center of the coil is 3 feet of metal rope that I bought in Home Depot. For rotor I am using CD drive with 4 big magnets from Ace Hardware Store. I will make a movie tomorrow because I am so tired now.
Thanks for all the help. You guys rock.

ren
10-31-2007, 05:02 AM
Hello everyone. I have recently began replications of various pulse motors, on top of learning electronics from scratch. I took particular interest in the sony reel to reel that Aaron(?) modified for 10000 rpm. What fascinated me was the amp draw dropping at higher speed. I have made a simple bedini circuit 3 air coil pulse motor with a hard drive bearing and platter for a rotor. Neos alternating north and south 8 in total. Draws just over .5 amps at FAST speeds. Can recharge 9v alakalines (non rechargeables) without heating them. Coils run dead cold.

It has (along with Aarons jet engine) inspired me to go on, and continue replications. I will post up some pics and video/schematics soon.

Look forward to following this thread and hearing everyones input.


S

PS old reels out of vcr machines have excellent bearings too. There are even all mounting holes pre-drilled to attach to frame and rotor. Should be easy to find with dvds flooding the market.

ERKAN
11-01-2007, 11:54 PM
Does anybody knows where I can buy this neon bulb? I couldn't find it in Radio Shack and on the internet everybody is seling 120V ones.
Thanks,
Erkan

Jetijs
11-02-2007, 12:32 AM
I got mine from ebay. Just searched for them again and found 4 sellers that sell them. :)

ren
11-02-2007, 07:30 PM
jaycar in australia have them. Ebay, or any electrical component site will hook you up

gabriolaman
11-04-2007, 07:21 PM
hi guys im newish here and im starting to collect the parts i need and im wondering where i might canabilize the transistor as theres no electronics parts stores near me what kind of stats does the transistor need besides voltage and currect requirments if i were to use one unspecified thanks for any help

Jan H
11-05-2007, 07:16 PM
Gabriolaman,

anyone on the forum please correct me if im wrong.
I think the transistors used in the schoolgirl circuit are pretty close to the end-amps in conventional Audio amplifiers. But that is not saying every audio amp has the right parts. Especially cheap low power systems have these all-in-one piecies of junk wich are just of no use at all. I think you will have to look at bigger, stand alone amplifiers.
Pretty much expensive machines to destroy for a 2 dollar part.
you'd better try online stores.

gabriolaman
11-06-2007, 09:40 AM
ok ile try get one i been testing differnt npn transistorsand so far i can get them to blink a l.e.d but they wont power my electromagnet :( i can get my hands on a blown car audio sub amp maybe ile find one in there thanks for your reply

Peter Lindemann
11-06-2007, 04:47 PM
Does anybody knows where I can buy this neon bulb? I couldn't find it in Radio Shack and on the internet everybody is selling 120V ones.
Thanks,
Erkan

Erkan,

The 120 volt Neon Bulbs will work. They are usually in a little plastic case (red, green, or yellow). Just open up the plastic case. You will see the neon bulb connected to a SERIES RESISTOR. Just remove the resistor and :blowout: like magic:blowout: you have a neon bulb.

So, you can get a neon bulb easily. Next, you will notice that the little ones can't handle much current, so be careful. Remember, the neon bulb is a "safety relief valve" to protect the transistor in-case the circuit is mistakenly operated without a load to receive the inductive collapse.

Peter

ren
11-06-2007, 08:00 PM
Peter, or anyone, would two bulbs across collector and emitter offer better protection? I seem to have burnt out a couple in my experimenting....

hydrymoron
11-13-2007, 10:48 AM
Hullo everyone. I'm tying to put together my first SG, and I have a couple of questions to put to wiser heads.
1. I am currently trying a 1N4004 diode, which was the nearest the shop had to the 1N4001 recommended. The only difference seems to be in the voltage rating (400 instead of 100). Would this do the job? I also have some 1N4007s available.
2.I couldn't get a neon bulb so I tried using a low Ma incandescent bulb. Is this any good or would I do better leaving it out altogether? (I have it in series between the diode and the emitter, as shown in one of the diagrams).
3. I'm using four small 1cm diam. neodynium disk magnets. I'm a bit confused here because some people seem to recommend them while others say you should only use ceramic magnets.

As you've probably guessed, the circuit doesn't seem to work. I've checked the usual things, coil direction (about 400 winds) showing north to magnets' north. Without the core, the coil sometimes emits an oscillating whine which increases in pitch. Does this mean anything good or bad? When a clip slipped and briefly shorted the emitter to the casing I think I saw the rotor move slightly. When I connect and disconnect the circuit, I can hear a faint clicking sound coming from the rotor (based on a HD drive so quite free running).
Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

Jetijs
11-13-2007, 01:46 PM
1. Yes you can use the 1N4004 diode.
2. incandescent bulb wont work at all and is the reason that your circuit is not working, because neon turns on only at about 90V, but incandescent bulb is always on. Have you seen how the neon bulb looks like? There is two seperated electrodes in a glass envelope and the electrodes are not touching, the bulb does not conduct electricity. But when we apply 90V to the bulb, the gass between the electrodes starts to ionize and conduct electricity. Your incandescent bulb conducts always and that is not good. If you do not have a neon bulb, then just leave it out, but in that case be careful not to rotate the wheel while the charging battery is not connected. I have used my ssg many times without a neon bulb - works fine, as long as your charging battery is attached. The neon only protects the transistor in case there is nothing connected in the outpus (charging battery) and the radiant spike has nowhere to go, so it overshoots through the neon to the primary battery negative terminal.
3. You can use neo magnets, but they are not recommended, because they are too strong and can saturate and permanently magnetize your core material, that is bad


Hope this helps :)

Jetijs
11-13-2007, 02:20 PM
Peter, or anyone, would two bulbs across collector and emitter offer better protection? I seem to have burnt out a couple in my experimenting....

I dont think, that 2 bulbs in parralel will provide better protection. You could try using a 4.7k 1-2w resistor in series with the neon. This is what Rick did and it seems work better.

hydrymoron
11-13-2007, 04:53 PM
Thanks for that Jetijs. I took out the bulb but still no joy. One thing I noticed is that although the coil seems to be working right, when I use a compass to check it, the response is very feeble, with the needle looking as if it isn't sure if it doesn't prefer the earths magnetic field to my coil. When winding the coil I did my best to follow the instructions (up and over, left to right and then back) but although I did my best to keep the two strands together, it proved very difficult and there may have been a few gaps here and there.
The core is a piece of iron (cast, I think) I found lying around, but it's a bit of a loose fit. I tried with a steel bolt, but no difference.
Would it be worth rewinding, this time with twisted pairs, or is it just that 400 turns is not enough. If I need to add more, what's the procedure for connecting extra coil wire?
Thanks again.

Jetijs
11-13-2007, 05:23 PM
I do not think, that the problem is in the coil. 400 turns should work just fine. Can you post some pictures of your setup? Check if all components are working and if everything is wired exactly as in the diagramm. Maybe your transistor is fried, maybe something else. Hard to say :confused:

hydrymoron
11-15-2007, 02:48 PM
Here are the pics. I've resoldered and rechecked everything. One thing I notice is when I put a meter across the 10 ohm resistance (negative probe towards the transistor only) the coil begins to oscillate and the rotor tries to turn.

Jetijs
11-15-2007, 03:07 PM
I can't see the output diode from the collector.

Jan H
11-15-2007, 06:29 PM
if it wants to start by itself something is wrong, it should not do that as far as i know.
maybe isolate your coil and see if there is any conductivity between the two diffrent strands, there should be none.
Are you sure the field created is right? i also did measurements with a compass, and it's real easy to make a north/south mistake. it should repel the magnets when power is applied.

hydrymoron
11-15-2007, 08:51 PM
Output diode? Duh, I thought the simplified model only needed the diode on the base as in the diagram in this thread? I'll put that in and give it another try.

Jetijs
11-15-2007, 09:04 PM
use the circuit shown here:
Bedini_Monopole3 : Bedini_Monopole3 (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_Monopole3/)

hydrymoron
11-15-2007, 10:23 PM
I've been following the instructions up until now for the simplified circuit with only the primary battery connected., and using this diagram and the JB one. Are you saying that this is not a working circuit as it stands, and that I need to add the charging side? I tried connecting the second diode to the first battery, but I see that that's wrong.

Aaron
11-15-2007, 11:10 PM
That schematic is fine as it is...that would be the bare basic SG and is the starting point.

The diode leaving the collector is just to send the collapsed spikes to a recovery battery or cap, etc...

You don't need that for it to run...the schematic you posted is perfect.

In your pic, what is that blue thing ahead of the resistor going to base?

Also, you probably have it right, but make sure you don't have the Base pin and Emitter pin on the transistor backwards.

hydrymoron
11-15-2007, 11:55 PM
The blue thing is a variable resistance, which at the moment I've got set to zero with the fixed resistor at ten ohms. If I bridge that resistor with the meter on 1 ohm test, with the positive probe to the right, the coil begins to oscillate and with a compass behind the coil, the rear of the coil starts to show south. If I do this without the core in, I only need to give it a quick touch and then it continues oscillating and when I jack up the resistance, the whine rises in pitch.

I've double checked the transistor connections for the 2n3055, and all the pin arrangements show it as I've got it connected. I took the transistor off and tested it, and it seems OK.
Just a thought. Does the battery need to be in prime condition? Mine is off an old scooter, and I suspect its a little past its prime, to say the least.
One other question if I may. What should the air gap be, and how critical is it? I've tried everything from practically touching to an inch away or more.

hydrymoron
11-16-2007, 12:05 AM
Here's another pic from above, in case it helps.

Aaron
11-16-2007, 03:49 AM
It helps to have a battery in a good condition but I have run a roller skate motor on 9v alkaline battery and that worked and it wasn't fully charged. That was probably the smallest power I put to these.

Is it possible the variable resistor is problematic? Can you put connect a wire on both its leads to by pass it and see if that works?

1/2 cm is a workable air gap...are those neo magnets you're using? If so, they will be too strong if too close to the core..can still work through.

Aaron
11-16-2007, 04:04 AM
What are you using for a coil spool? Almost looks like a green skate wheel. Probably not with that many turns...for a core, it should be pretty close to the inner turns of the coil...if there is too much material gap between core outside and inner turns, there might not be enough induced current at the coil.

ren
11-16-2007, 05:37 AM
Aarons right, try moving your coil closer to the rotor, and make sure theres not too much gap between core and windings. Also, if your a visual person like me you'll find this diagram easy to follow. The 2n3055 to3 transistor is mounted upside down inside the heatsink with the prong (base and emitter) sticking out.

Tecstatic
11-16-2007, 06:21 AM
Moved post to "electric motor secrets".

hydrymoron
11-16-2007, 12:07 PM
The coil spool is a plastic spool, originally for solder, with an inner diameter of about 2 cm. I've tried various things in the core, first a cluster of thinner steel bolts, then a piece of cast iron and now the fattest bolt I could find, which is quite a bit thinner than the spool core but has a quite wide head and nut.
The 2n3055 is connected with the base on the left and the emitter on the right with the transistor on its back and legs in the air (!) with the pins above the centre line.
I've tested (and tried bridging) the variable resistor.
I've tried about every gap position I can think of.
Later I'll try it in the car, just to eliminate battery possibilities.

hydrymoron
11-16-2007, 01:16 PM
I got it to run!

I tried it out on a 12v car battery. No dice. The I tried bridging the 10 ohm resistor with the meter on th 1ohm setting and with the positive probe nearest the coil, and off she went like a bird!. This also work if I do the same thing with the input diode and even bridging with the same probes from the base to the disconnected output diode soldered to the collector (although not so well). there's obviously some cock-up in the wiring here, but I can't see it.

Aaron
11-16-2007, 05:34 PM
Glad to hear you got it running! :thumbsup:

You can probably run it on a much smaller battery if the
you fill the core with as much iron as you can. If the bolt
itself is smaller than the core, there is too much space
between the bolt and the wires. Even if the head is bigger,
you really need that iron right up next to the windings.
Maybe you can jam in some smaller bolts around the larger
bolt if there is room?

hydrymoron
11-16-2007, 11:02 PM
This is the diagram of the transistor I used for connecting. If this is right (and I've seen the same elsewhere) then I still don't see where I've gone wrong. As the meter was obviously putting a small voltage on this part of the circuit, I tried hooking up a 1.5v battery across the same areas, with the same result. Any ideas?

hydrymoron
11-19-2007, 12:58 PM
Just to say I sorted it out eventually. The circuit was fine, it was just a combination of tired battery and loose core. By using an old hammer head as a tight-fitting core and a new battery I got it to run just fine. Now for the charging circuit...
Thanks for all your helpful suggestions everyone!

gabriolaman
11-20-2007, 01:23 AM
heres my sg i cant belive the camera got a still of the rotor it is spinning :O
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b25/-emc-/000_0367.jpg

Jetijs
11-20-2007, 01:35 AM
why is the neon flashing?

gabriolaman
11-20-2007, 01:38 AM
its running thats why the camera was able to get a still of the rotor some how

hydrymoron
11-20-2007, 12:54 PM
Just a quick question. Is there anything else apart from a neon light that could be used as a safety device on the charging circuit? My local electronics shop doesn't stock them for some reason.

Jan H
11-20-2007, 09:34 PM
gabriolaman
The neon should not flash, it's a safety device. is the output disconnected?

hydrymoron
neon bulbs are in a lot of AC power switches, just rip one apart. You know the red 1/0 ones that are found in "power distributors", i don't know the word ehmm. Those boxes that allow you to put more plugs on one ac outlet
they are also found in "tension checker" screwdrivers.

edit:
these are the switches im talking about
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50140899/Double_Pole_Rocker_Switch.jpg

gabriolaman
11-20-2007, 11:13 PM
in that pic there was no output hooked up
you mean like a charge battery?

hydrymoron
11-21-2007, 01:06 PM
Found one exactly like your pic Jan. Thanks a lot!

gabriolaman
11-22-2007, 05:50 AM
well i doubled the magnets, 8 instead of four it doubled the speed to around 2500 or 5000rpm i dunno if i gotta divide the freq by two first because the drive pulse and spike on the scope then by 8 im still confused on that part nor do i know if the scope freq is true as its not a real scope, also a noticeable charge rate change at least double the charge speed :D running only 150 ma on a digital multimeter little upgrade big return also oiled the bearings cant wait for supplies to make a larger multi coil unit
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b25/-emc-/100_7717.jpg

Jetijs
11-22-2007, 11:48 AM
Nice work :thumbsup:
Keep experimenting!
:cheers:

gabriolaman
11-23-2007, 06:16 AM
im gonna add a second coil but could use some info on what to do about it
does it gotta be exactly the same as the first coil cause i got no idea how many turns is on the first should i just make it like the same resistance ?
should i have it with its own trigger my magnets may be out of alignment slightly but i dont think there that far out if there out at all any advise will help ?:/

Jetijs
11-23-2007, 02:49 PM
It is not important how much turns your other coil has, it can be more or less, it will still work as long as you use it as a slave coil and trigger it with the trigger winding from the primary coil. But if you use a separate trigger for your second coil, then the coil should have so many windings that the voltage/current induced by the magnet passing is enough to trigger the transistor. Usually that is somewhere between 400 and 1000 turns :)

gabriolaman
11-24-2007, 12:17 AM
well here it is using 250 ma, rpm unknown
in the pic she is moving i dunno how my camera gets stills like that

kinda messy the circut but it satisfies me haha


http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b25/-emc-/100_7718.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b25/-emc-/100_7719.jpg

Jetijs
11-24-2007, 01:13 AM
Nice work :thumbsup:
Do you see any improvement in charging speeds now that you have two coils?
BTW you probably have a too short shutter speed setting on your camera, that's why the wheel appears to bee still in the pictures :) If you are using the "auto" setting, try to take the picture without the flash
Jetijs

gabriolaman
11-24-2007, 02:03 AM
indeed it seemed to be charging faster and the battery voltage when charging was higher hard to really tell my batts are not conditioned well and my transistors may not be the best as there random ones from some amp still waiting on my 2n3055s when they arrive i will make a cleaner bit larger and some better coils i might even go to 24 volts

gabriolaman
11-24-2007, 03:05 AM
my pot is a 5 k and sensitive and it made me blow a transistor :( :(:(:(
i only had to that were working for this system ::::::::::::::C :C :C no more fun for me tonight :(:(:(:(:(:(

ren
12-08-2007, 10:23 PM
Presentation model assembled!

Trifilar circuit built to spec. 1n4001's sourced from computer cicuit board due to unavailability. One master and one slave. 100ohm resistors with 1k pot.

Will run on as little as one transistor @ 50ma.
2 transistors @110ma.
Sweet spot seems to be around 110-120 ma one transistor and 290-330 ma with both firing.

1 ohm 5 watt resistor shows no more than .3 volts across it, and as little as .02 v at minimum draw. At current sweet spot it reads .16v with both transistors firing. More accurate readings awaiting arrival of a analogue multimeter. Laser tacho and new 12 7.2ah batteries to follow shortly.

I found the pot useful in getting the wheel up to speed then dropping the amp draw down while maintaining and even increasing speed. Its a little harder to start on the sweet spot and get it up to speed otherwise. Rotor is quite heavy, over 1500 grams and only 300mm diameter. :cheers:

Jetijs
12-08-2007, 10:28 PM
very nice setup ren :) :thumbsup:
Can't wait to see your results :)
How did you cut the plexiglass rotor?

amigo
12-08-2007, 11:11 PM
Looks good ren, though I would still put some duct or other strong tape around the rim of the rotor even though you have glued the magnets.

You never know if the glue will give in or not...so rather be safe than sorry. ;)

ren
12-08-2007, 11:27 PM
hey amigo. I have tested the epoxy glue on another design at speeds of over 4000 rpm (estimate) with neos. That was scary...lol. This rotor doesnt go very fast in comparison and the magnets are recessed in and glued on three sides. Your probably right however, and a neat bit of tape will probably improve it aesthetically too. Safety first!

Jet, I got the rotor cnc/laser cut so as to ensure neat and centered finish. I rang around and was quoted as high as $400 aud for a 300mm by 20mm rotor, ended up finding a place just up the road that did it for $77.00:cheers: I grinded/filed out the recesses for the magnets by hand, its pretty easy stuff to shape if your patient. The coil mount plate and back plate is just some acrylic window material I got from a local hardware store, bout $40 for a huge sheet. Cuts with jigsaw, although its thinner and easier to crack if you rush it.

Looking at getting some new sla's over the next few weeks for serious tests!:thumbsup:

Master303
02-17-2008, 12:43 PM
Hello!
i have a few questions...

First, my supplier of components didn't have the 1N914 diode(outgoing model) so i bought a 1N4448 diode instead, that seamed to be about the same in my eyes... will that work?

Also, since i don't live in the states i couldn't get the correct wire as well..
I bought 1kg of 0.5mm and 1kg of 0.6mm copper wire.
The drawings said #23 & #26 (AWG or SWG??) so it could be anything from 0.573mm or 0.610mm to 0.405mm or 0.457mm... confusing.

The wires i can get are these:
0.30, 0.35, 0.40, 0.45, 0.50, 0.60, 0.70, 0.80 mm
So my next question is what thickness would you recommend? or will it work with the wires i already have bought?

ren
02-17-2008, 01:01 PM
Hello Master.

the size you have should work good. The plans state for awg, I live in Australia and had to get swg. I used 24 swg for my power and 27 swg for my trigger. Try and pick a size close to the plans, theres a great guy on ebay who deals in awg if you want to be specific. Resistor values will vary slightly for different gauges and lengths, experiment a little. Use a 1n4007 for the output diode (1000v rated) and you can use it for the emitter to base as well if you want.

If I was you I would wind both wires on until I ran out. Have a massive coil. Test it later if want you can cut it all up. That way you could still have the option of turning it into a tri/quad filar later. Wind at least 400 odd turns if you want anything with decent output with that gauge.

Good luck, keep us updated:v-peace:

Master303
02-17-2008, 01:54 PM
Thanks for the quick reply Ren :)
I had a few 1n4007 lying around, and tried them too.

My setup doesn't work, but at least now i can draw the conclusion that it IS the coil and not the diode. I have a too small coil with few strands so its back to the building board...

ren
02-17-2008, 10:42 PM
Double check everything master. Youd be surprised how small your coils can be and still achieve rotation. Make sure all your connections are clean and connected well. Post a pic up if you can, I worked on a Bedini/Cole half circuit yesterday for over three frustrating hours, only to notice one connection was misplaced. Fired up straight away after that.

Hans
06-14-2008, 10:01 PM
Hi there,

I'm a 100% beginner in making the Bedini SSG-motor, just to learn the basics. Up 'till now I couldn't find enough length of magnetic wire her in the Netherlands.
What I do have is enamel wire diameter 0,8 mm (AWG #20) and 0,2 mm (AWG > #28). Probably both lengths will do for about 600 windings.

Questions:
- in the drawing the length of the coil is 1,5" (4 cm): is that enough ?
- are the wires 0,8 and 0,2 mm. appropriate for the power and trigger ?
- if so, should I use the thicker wire for the power ?

Who can help me ?
Thanks in advance !

Hans

theremart
06-14-2008, 10:19 PM
Here are some links...

Overall best link has TONS of info.
Directory:Bedini SG - PESWiki (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bedini_SG)

Your first SSG

My videos are not as good as others..
YouTube - More on the heart of the SSG the Transistor 9 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETSG-RFEbIA)

Much better
YouTube - How to Build a Bedini Motor ... Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJySgeSpJpQ)

Good how to..
Erwin's Work Shop (http://www.fight-4-truth.com/Work%20Shop.html)

Great basics..
AionAlchemy™ - radiant (http://jasonwolf.com/energy/radiant/index.html)

Per the Standard... But you must do it exactly as they put out,

====
Here are some lists that you might consider for continued pursuit of this topic:

* http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_Monopole3/- beginners, public
* http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_Monopole2/- intermediate, by invitation, private
* http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_Monopole/- most advanced, private
* http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_sg3/- newsletter, info
* http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_window_energizer/- advanced, members only

List of Bedini topic groups at YahooGroups:
Yahoo! Groups : Search Results (http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=bedini+monopole)

And some related websites to consider:
- http://energenx.com- - John's company website
- http://r-charge.com- - Rick Friedrich's promotion of John's commercial products

theremart
06-14-2008, 10:38 PM
Hi there,

I'm a 100% beginner in making the Bedini SSG-motor, just to learn the basics. Up 'till now I couldn't find enough length of magnetic wire her in the Netherlands.
What I do have is enamel wire diameter 0,8 mm (AWG #20) and 0,2 mm (AWG > #28). Probably both lengths will do for about 600 windings.

Questions:
- in the drawing the length of the coil is 1,5" (4 cm): is that enough ?
- are the wires 0,8 and 0,2 mm. appropriate for the power and trigger ?
- if so, should I use the thicker wire for the power ?

Who can help me ?
Thanks in advance !

Hans

look up "Daftman" on youtube, he has step by step Bedini, and how to wind the coils. He talks in Millimeters too :) I have found his material right on the money.

Hans
06-15-2008, 02:14 PM
Dear Theremart,

Thanks for spending your time om informing me.
I will work my way through all this amount of information.

:peacesmiley:

Hans

bobbyjay111
06-17-2008, 12:22 AM
Hello everyone,
this is my first post but i've been interested in these kinds of underground electronics for a couple of years.

i finally had a few spare hours to tinker with this bedini motor circuit. i am currently low on money so i was just using the materials i had in my shop... the bifolar coil is too small w/ too few wraps.
as soon as i fired her up, the electromagnet coil (bigger wire) would trigger the trigger coil (smaller wire), which switches the transistor and the cycle continues. The bifolar coil hummed and the rotor seemed to have little effect with regards to the transistor swithing.

what did i do wrong?
do i just need to get the correct gauges and length of wire.
what keeps your guys' coil from entering this "self-resonance"?
the induction from the main coil to the trigger coil is much greater than from the rotor magnets.

theremart
06-17-2008, 12:51 AM
Hello everyone,
this is my first post but i've been interested in these kinds of underground electronics for a couple of years.

i finally had a few spare hours to tinker with this bedini motor circuit. i am currently low on money so i was just using the materials i had in my shop... the bifolar coil is too small w/ too few wraps.
as soon as i fired her up, the electromagnet coil (bigger wire) would trigger the trigger coil (smaller wire), which switches the transistor and the cycle continues. The bifolar coil hummed and the rotor seemed to have little effect with regards to the transistor swithing.

what did i do wrong?
do i just need to get the correct gauges and length of wire.
what keeps your guys' coil from entering this "self-resonance"?
the induction from the main coil to the trigger coil is much greater than from the rotor magnets.

If you are using neos, move the coil back away from the magnets at least a 1/2 inch.

It helps to understand your circuit if you can give us pictures of it.

I have found the hard way if you skimp on the parts you get skimpy results. It is best to gather the various parts that are right to do the job then go about it.

Please post a picture of what you have. Also list the materials that you used.

Hang in there we are pulling for ya, took me about 2 weeks to get my first one going. I also had too little wire on the coil..

Mart

Hans
06-22-2008, 08:17 PM
Hi there Jetijs, Theremart and others !

Yesterday I completed my construction of the SSG, and the moment was there to give it a try. The model worked right from the start, so I jumped with joy !:angel:
I have the technical insight of a snail, but after reading and rereading and carefully following the instructions, I managed the very first time.
Parts I used:
- coil wire #20 (to + of battery)
- coil wire #25
- about 600 parallel coin windings
- coin length 2 1/2 "
- 2 weak iron bars and some galvanised wire as coin rods
- tranosistor 2N3055
- resistor 47 Ohm
- diode 1N4007
- 12V lead acid battery (small 9V battery also worked)

Made a small film with my camera:
YouTube - Bedini Simplified School Girl (Monopole) Motor (http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=1NCJS3yP9yw)

theremart
06-22-2008, 09:15 PM
Hi there Jetijs, Theremart and others !

Yesterday I completed my construction of the SSG, and the moment was there to give it a try. The model worked right from the start, so I jumped with joy !:angel:
I have the technical insight of a snail, but after reading and rereading and carefully following the instructions, I managed the very first time.
Parts I used:
- coil wire #20 (to + of battery)
- coil wire #25
- about 600 parallel coin windings
- coin length 2 1/2 "
- 2 weak iron bars and some galvanised wire as coin rods
- tranosistor 2N3055
- resistor 47 Ohm
- diode 1N4007
- 12V lead acid battery (small 9V battery also worked)

Made a small film with my camera:
YouTube - Bedini Simplified School Girl (Monopole) Motor (http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=1NCJS3yP9yw)

Congrates...!!!!!! :cheers: :dance: :dance: :dance:

I know how it feels to see that wheel turn the first time!!!

petey256
07-17-2008, 05:44 PM
Hi, Im a new member and have been inspired by this forum to build my first sg and start experimenting. Looks so simple but I can not get it to run.Im using a skateboard wheel with four magnets ducktaped to it. I was using a 16 inch bike rim but changed to a skateboard wheel when I couldnt get it running. I have about 900 turns on the coil and am using a in914 diode with a 100ohm resister changed from 470ohm when it didnt work. I am using a 3055 transistor. I see nothing on the base and 12volts on the collector and emitter.
The coils are not shorted together or open. If I read across the diode I see a little over 100 ohms so Im reading through the resister and coil across the trigger side. My battery negitive side is my ground. I have no load on it and am using a sealed lead acid 12volt battery as my source voltage. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks petey256

Sephiroth
07-17-2008, 05:53 PM
Hi Petey...

were you using a neon in the circuit?

petey256
07-17-2008, 05:56 PM
No I wasnt. I just checked the transister and it is not open or shorted.

Sephiroth
07-17-2008, 05:58 PM
try BRIEFLY shorting the base to the collector... if the transistor hasn't fried then the coil should repel the magnet on the rotor...

though if your ssg has no load and no neon the chances are your transistor is going to die... :(

petey256
07-17-2008, 06:02 PM
What kind of neon and where could I find one. I read to use one but it is not in the schematic. I looked when I was at radio shack but could not find one rated at 90volts dc. Maybe I was looking at the wrong thing. Also where do I connect it between emitter and ground or collecter and the small wire coming off the coil? Thanks for the quick response I wasnt sure this thread was still active.petey256

petey256
07-17-2008, 06:10 PM
I shorted the base and collector like you said and the wheel moved. What does it mean and can I connect something besides a neon to see this run for now like a dead 6volt battery? Thanks

Sephiroth
07-17-2008, 06:23 PM
yeah... the 6 volt battery should be fine..

sounds like your transistor is ok (as long as you shorted the base and coolector and not the emitter an collector)

by shorting the base and collector you allow current to flow into the base and out through the emitter... this is what turns the transistor on during normal operation except the triggering current comes from the trigger coil when a magnet passes over it.

Not sure what the problem is then... what kind of magnets are you using and does your coil have a core?

petey256
07-17-2008, 06:30 PM
Im using radio shack rectangular magnets with the hole in them. So the problem is on the trigger side of it?

Sephiroth
07-17-2008, 06:34 PM
It sounds like the problem is on the trigger side... is the trigger wire on the positive side of your coil going to the resistor (then to the base) and the other connected to the emmitter?

Does your coil have a core?

Edit : meant to say positive side...

petey256
07-17-2008, 06:41 PM
I put welding rod in the center of my coil and the wire coming from around the right side of the coil is connected to the base and the big wire is connected to + side of battery. The wires coming from around the left side are connected to the emmiter and the big wire is connected to the collector.

petey256
07-17-2008, 06:43 PM
Is it possible I have my coil upside down?

BinzerBob
07-17-2008, 11:49 PM
I Finished my SSG Bedini Motor, hooked it up, and it fired up in one shot. I was impressed that it worked first time.

I have a question about the voltage. I read that the motor has a cpacity to shock. Mine dosen't have this capacity to shock, it only seems to develop a maximum of 60V.

I do not have a scope but if I replace the charge up battary with a capacitor to see what the max voltage is it will only register 60V.

My coil is 650 turns or more, #20 and #24 wire bifilar. Rotor spins at about 1000 rpm, 4 magnets (standard type). Diameter of the rotor is 5". I am not using a Neon Bulb (I could not find one yet). I am using a diode to protect my transistor.... maybe this is the problem?

The run battery is 12V and with the resistance set at 1000 ohm the motor draw only 180 mA.

The core of my electromagnet is a solid bolt. It extends about 1.5" on the south side of the coil so that I can mount it (I use the threads of the bolt... but maybe this is the problem, as I am not using the welding rods?)

I can post something on u Tube if clarification is needed.

Any suggestions?

BinzerBob
07-20-2008, 09:08 PM
I think I figured out why my circuit only seems to product a maximum of 60 volt spike (radian energy).

The NPN Transistor 2N3055 is rated for 60V. Above that voltage, it probably breaks down and shorts out.

I was not able to find a 40 V neon bulb, so I am using a 90 Volt one for now. Any comments on my hypothesis about why the maximum of only 60V?

citfta
07-20-2008, 11:21 PM
Hi Bob, Congratulations on getting your SSG to work. Your problem is most likely caused by your solid bolt for your core. The solid bolt allows a lot of eddy currents to flow in it and robs the coil of its magnetic ability. Your circuit will work much better if you can find some kind of soft iron material to use as a core. Even a bunch of pieces of old coat hanger wire will be better than the bolt. As far as the transistor goes if it's max voltage is ever really exceeded then the transistor is fried and you will need a new one. By the way the max ratings are approximate and are suggested by the manufactorer. They are max voltage and current ratings you are supposed to design your circuit around. Good luck, citfta

petey256
07-21-2008, 05:20 PM
Hi, I still cant get my ssg to work. I am thinking about scraping the whole thing and starting over. One thing I dont understand is that I have the wires coming off the right side of the coil towards me and I found the top of the coil was south not north. When I jumped across the collector to the base of the trasistor it made the wheel jump but also pulled it towards the coil. Acording to the schematics it should produce a north field.

Sephiroth
07-21-2008, 06:44 PM
ah... ok, then try swapping around the wires on the coil... ie the wire currently connected to the primary positive needs to go to the collector and vice versa.... do the same for you trigger winding... this will reverse the polarity of your coil.

ren
07-21-2008, 09:37 PM
I think I figured out why my circuit only seems to product a maximum of 60 volt spike (radian energy).

The NPN Transistor 2N3055 is rated for 60V. Above that voltage, it probably breaks down and shorts out.

I was not able to find a 40 V neon bulb, so I am using a 90 Volt one for now. Any comments on my hypothesis about why the maximum of only 60V?

The comment about your choice of core material is spot on.

The voltage rating of your transistor is mostly relevant to your input power, and not to the spike which is directed away from the transistor anyway. If the spikes destination (charging battery/capacitor) is removed then the spike can damage the transistor, hence the neon bulb.

boguslaw
07-21-2008, 10:48 PM
OK, probably I've found something interesting about schoolgirl circuit.But first please do a simple test. Connect second neon in place of charging battery and adjust POT to see light in neon. Please tell me what you see.I see very weak light in on of then neon terminal. Is that correct ?

theremart
07-21-2008, 10:55 PM
OK, probably I've found something interesting about schoolgirl circuit.But first please do a simple test. Connect second neon in place of charging battery and adjust POT to see light in neon. Please tell me what you see.I see very weak light in on of then neon terminal. Is that correct ?

Much better to put a nite light in place of the charging battery... or use the 1 ohm resistor test found on the yahoo monopole 3 group.

I tried the neon on mine and I blew my transistor. I might be driving a much higher voltage than you but in my old age I do try to smoke less transistors :whistle:

patmac
07-21-2008, 11:11 PM
Hi, I still cant get my ssg to work. I am thinking about scraping the whole thing and starting over. One thing I dont understand is that I have the wires coming off the right side of the coil towards me and I found the top of the coil was south not north. When I jumped across the collector to the base of the trasistor it made the wheel jump but also pulled it towards the coil. Acording to the schematics it should produce a north field.
Hey. My Bedini use South Pole, I have no noted any difference, logically is necessary invert electrical poles to get it work.

boguslaw
07-22-2008, 08:29 AM
Hi,

I will describe what I have.I had mistake placing transistor in reverse so E and B replace each other. Surprisingly it works! :fingerdance:


Even more it has a sweet spot when the wheel is not required to maintain oscillations. Second to note is much high intensity of output oscillations - it easily lights neon connected in place of charging battery.

It also seems to behaves quite differently then with normal Bedini schoolgirl circuit. Battery "eats" voltage and very fast rise even to 15V and then stays long on this.

I have to confirm if charging is also faster, because after disconnecting battery voltage slowly drops to original value, but I only tested it for a few minutes.

If I remove 1N4001 diode (which is 1N4002 in my case) the circuit is not able to self-oscillate - it looks almost the same as original - wheel is rotating and a sweet spot may be found. However there is a difference - neon connected to the output in place of charging battery is lighting very bright with even a purplish accent.

The problem is with POT, I fired a few of them. 1/4W POT is not good in that modification.

BinzerBob
07-29-2008, 09:02 PM
Ok, I will change my iron core (solid bolt) to the type specified by the Bedini literature. I will paint the welding rods first (allow them to dry)then make the core.

My motor with the iron bolt, is charging batteries. I am trying to condition a 9.6 V 1.3 Ahr NiCad. Should I abandon the NiCad and move to a lead Acid type battery? So far I have noticed that the discharge voltage of the 9.6 volt battery is held mostly above 10 Volts (with a discharge rate of .04C ie about .053ampre), then when the voltage gets to 9.5 volts it dies very very fast.

With an imput current of .3ampre and at 12volts the iron core get just a bit warm, which are the eddies current shorting out.

Thanks for your help.

theremart
07-29-2008, 09:07 PM
Ok, I will change my iron core (solid bolt) to the type specified by the Bedini literature. I will paint the welding rods first (allow them to dry)then make the core.

My motor with the iron bolt, is charging batteries. I am trying to condition a 9.6 V 1.3 Ahr NiCad. Should I abandon the NiCad and move to a lead Acid type battery? So far I have noticed that the discharge voltage of the 9.6 volt battery is held mostly above 10 Volts (with a discharge rate of .04C ie about .053ampre), then when the voltage gets to 9.5 volts it dies very very fast.

With an imput current of .3ampre and at 12volts the iron core get just a bit warm, which are the eddies current shorting out.

Thanks for your help.

Lead acid batteries are much better with the Bedini.

elias
07-30-2008, 10:37 AM
Much better to put a nite light in place of the charging battery... or use the 1 ohm resistor test found on the yahoo monopole 3 group.

I tried the neon on mine and I blew my transistor. I might be driving a much higher voltage than you but in my old age I do try to smoke less transistors :whistle:

Tired of frying transistors! Anyone has any idea how to burn less transistors?
The neon simply won't handle voltages more than 12 volts!

Elias

Sephiroth
07-30-2008, 11:36 AM
try 2 neons :D

elias
07-30-2008, 11:52 AM
try 2 neons :D

Well, Thanks, I'll do but will it protect my precious transistors? I don't want to burn my remaining two transistors. maybe I'll try three! :D

Sephiroth
07-30-2008, 12:35 PM
can't say for sure but 2 neons in parrelel should offer more protection. Are you using the 2n3055s?

elias
07-30-2008, 01:58 PM
can't say for sure but 2 neons in parrelel should offer more protection. Are you using the 2n3055s?

The final two fried also! :rofl: No I am using MJ15022s and they are quite expensive. But I am using #15 wire for my coils which are also like Tesla bifilar, I think that too much power is being generated by the coils and this makes my neons not be able to handle it. I think that using a big 36V zener diode may protect my transistors, actually I had used some zeners, but the zeners burnt out! I guess I should use a zener with higher amp ratings.

Sephiroth
07-30-2008, 05:51 PM
:( aw, that sucks.... those are a bit more pricy.... so your bulbs were glowing at full bightness? what was the amp draw?

elias
07-30-2008, 06:18 PM
:( aw, that sucks.... those are a bit more pricy.... so your bulbs were glowing at full brightness? what was the amp draw?
yes and the amp draw at full speed was around 1 ampere. I think that the Tesla type coils are producing much higher spikes and that's causing the problem.

Sephiroth
07-30-2008, 09:21 PM
hmmm... 1 amp is a pretty high draw... i could only imagine the strength of the spikes! though I'm sure John uses around 10 amps on his big energiser, but then again I seem to remember he is using quin-filar coils so could well be using around 49-50 transistors :D so that would be about 200ma per transistor. if your set up is using 2 transistors then that would be around 500ma per transistor... I'm not saying the amps are frying them since those transistors should easily be able to handle that amount of "power", but it could be generating alot more spike pressure (a term I just made up, sorry :D ) then John's devices...

patmac
07-31-2008, 01:53 AM
hmmm... 1 amp is a pretty high draw... i could only imagine the strength of the spikes! though I'm sure John uses around 10 amps on his big energiser, but then again I seem to remember he is using quin-filar coils so could well be using around 49-50 transistors :D so that would be about 200ma per transistor. if your set up is using 2 transistors then that would be around 500ma per transistor... I'm not saying the amps are frying them since those transistors should easily be able to handle that amount of "power", but it could be generating alot more spike pressure (a term I just made up, sorry :D ) then John's devices...
For high amp drawing, is better use one powerfull Mosfet or IGBT.

elias
07-31-2008, 05:17 AM
Hi

My new SSG is a tri-coiler with #15 wire, And I have used a separate trigger for each of the coils, and it is also designed with Muller's idea in mind which only one magnet gets aligned at a time. See the pics (4 magnets passing three coils). The amp draw for each transistor is about 300mA. The problem is with the spikes, they seem too powerful and blow up my transistors, if I run the motor with 24 volts. So I am going to buy some powerful Zeners for protection, because I have burnt around 10 pricy transistors. But I think that the muller design adds to the torque power of the motor.
I intend to add a new rotor to the back of the coils to increase horse power, but I don't know if John Bedini recommends this, because I have heard of him speak of the coils "sucking" the Radiant energy, but anyway I'll give it a try to see if I can double my torque power using this method.

Elias

ren
07-31-2008, 06:39 AM
Nice work Elias.

Do you have a load on the back end? This is the best form of transistor protection. If not, you can wire a 2k or higher resistor to one of the legs of your neon. This will help absorb more of the spike. Im interested to see how it performs for you.

S

elias
07-31-2008, 09:11 AM
Nice work Elias.

Do you have a load on the back end? This is the best form of transistor protection. If not, you can wire a 2k or higher resistor to one of the legs of your neon. This will help absorb more of the spike. Im interested to see how it performs for you.

S

Thanks Ren!
I have done this, but still no luck, any way I bought some 5W 41V Zeners today and I'll experiment with it. Hope this will solve my problem.

I think that this Muller configuration really makes it speed up! I have managed to run it up to 2000 RPM, with 20 Volts. Lets see if the second rotor can add to its performance. I'll keep you informed.

Elias

sinergicus
08-05-2008, 09:38 PM
Hi guys I am, newbie in electronics ;I want to ask your opinion if is possible to use a soft that
using pc soundcard to turn pc in a scope and using this for experimenting and testing,tuning bedini motors.I cannot afford a realy scope ;is too expensive for me...


Thanks
Mike

Sephiroth
08-05-2008, 09:46 PM
Hi sinergicus,

Welcome to the forum!


It is possible to turn your computer into an oscilloscope though I don't think it can work at as high a frequency or voltage that a real oscilloscope can handle.

It may give you an idea of the wave form but will not give you an accurate picture.

I think Gabriolaman has had success using this method

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1395-free-osilliscope.html

however i killed my soundcard :D

If you are going to try it I would recommend getting a cheap soundcard to try it with and not the integrated soundcard on your motherboard.

theinventor
08-07-2008, 08:07 AM
i made an electromagnet with many many many turns (3k or more) it is big. I check it for opens by connecting one end to a 9 volt battery and the other end i obviously connected to the multimeter. I then connected the other multimeter cable to the remaining electrode on the 9v battery and it displayed 9 volts exactly. Thus, no open was found, i think. Good. However, when I checked for continuity by connecting both end of the coil to the multimeter and then setting it to check for continuity it quickly displays 3 or more digits and goes back to 1. Note: my other smaller electromegnets dont make a beeping sound but show 3 digits. This large electromagnet just quickly shows some digits and goes to 1 and stays there. I tried connecting a battery and a small lamp in series with a 9v and 12 volt but it did not light. My small electromagnets did light when i did this test. they didnt beep when i check for continuity but they do show 3 digits.

I dont understant how my large electromagnet can show 9volts but fail both continuity test. Can somebody please help. Do I have an open? Whats up?

By the way this is a masive single coil.

Thanks for yas help in advance

theremart
08-08-2008, 10:50 AM
i made an electromagnet with many many many turns (3k or more) it is big. I check it for opens by connecting one end to a 9 volt battery and the other end i obviously connected to the multimeter. I then connected the other multimeter cable to the remaining electrode on the 9v battery and it displayed 9 volts exactly. Thus, no open was found, i think. Good. However, when I checked for continuity by connecting both end of the coil to the multimeter and then setting it to check for continuity it quickly displays 3 or more digits and goes back to 1. Note: my other smaller electromegnets dont make a beeping sound but show 3 digits. This large electromagnet just quickly shows some digits and goes to 1 and stays there. I tried connecting a battery and a small lamp in series with a 9v and 12 volt but it did not light. My small electromagnets did light when i did this test. they didnt beep when i check for continuity but they do show 3 digits.

I dont understant how my large electromagnet can show 9volts but fail both continuity test. Can somebody please help. Do I have an open? Whats up?

By the way this is a masive single coil.

Thanks for yas help in advance

Hi,

I am having alot of difficulty understanding what you are saying... Just not clear about your setup, a picture would really help.

Basic guidelines. When the BIG picture don't work, test each small element of your project to verify each component works, then try it again. It sounds like you are doing that. I have a spare SSG sitting around just to test each component of another SSG to be sure it works.

Check your battery in you multi-meter..... that may be why your continuity test failed ( just short the two leads together on the multimeter and see if it beeps ... )


That is my .2 cents worth

theinventor
08-08-2008, 09:20 PM
I just finished making a coil with 3000 + turns and i'm in the testing phase of it. Thus, I connected a 9v battery in series with it it showed 9volts. But if i connect a light along with the battery the light doesnt come on. and when i tested it on the multimeter for continuity it did not beep and it displays a 1 only and not 3 digits.

Buttom line, i am only testing a 3000 awg 30 wire with 3000 (coil)turns know. That, i will turn into an super elecromagnet latter.

My question again is why is it that when i connect the coil to a battery in series it shows 9v?

But fails the continuity test?

Is this normal for big coils?

What should i do to fix the problem?

ren
08-08-2008, 09:26 PM
make sure you have cleaned the ends of the wire well. Connect each end to a terminal of the battery. You should be able to attract/repel. If not so, then you have the wrong wires or you may have a short somewhere.

theremart
08-09-2008, 02:30 AM
magnet wire is very difficult to get the coating off the wire. I normally burn the ends then scrape the carbon off to show the shiny copper underneath.

Mart

citfta
08-09-2008, 10:35 AM
It sounds like the resistance of your coil is too high for a simple continuity test. I am not familiar with a meter that shows a 1 only when resistance is out of range. You might try selecting a higher resistance scale on your meter until you can actually read the resistance of the coil. The nine volt battery test shows that you actually have a connection through the coil, but it may be of very high resistance. A digital meter will read the voltage through the coil even if the current is only a few microamps. If the resistance is very high there was probably current going through the bulb when you did the bulb test, it was just too low to light the bulb.

Good luck, citfta

Sephiroth
08-09-2008, 12:36 PM
magnet wire is very difficult to get the coating off the wire. I normally burn the ends then scrape the carbon off to show the shiny copper underneath.

Mart

Same here :D Great minds... lol

It sounds like the resistance of your coil is too high for a simple continuity test. I am not familiar with a meter that shows a 1 only when resistance is out of range.

I wouldn't have thought 3000 turns of 30 guage wire would have very high resistance.... should only be in the tens of ohms which shouldn't prevent a continuity test.

but those are very long wires in that coil... Did you splice several lengths of wire together?

BinzerBob
08-09-2008, 07:58 PM
I am just wondering if anyone out there has tried Air as the core for the electro magnet / trigger? (basically no iron, just an empty hole of air).

The reason I ask, is that I noticed that my solid iron core heats up a bit. I will be transitioning to welding rod type core but have yet to do so. But regardless of what type of iron that is used for the core, there will be system losses in the metal as it magnetizes and demagnetizes.

Just wondering if anyone tried Air.

regards,

theremart
08-09-2008, 09:13 PM
I am just wondering if anyone out there has tried Air as the core for the electro magnet / trigger? (basically no iron, just an empty hole of air).

The reason I ask, is that I noticed that my solid iron core heats up a bit. I will be transitioning to welding rod type core but have yet to do so. But regardless of what type of iron that is used for the core, there will be system losses in the metal as it magnetizes and demagnetizes.

Just wondering if anyone tried Air.

regards,

Have done it, lower RPM, and a bear to get it started. Did not give me good charging rate.

vzon17
08-10-2008, 05:55 AM
OK, probably I've found something interesting about schoolgirl circuit.But first please do a simple test. Connect second neon in place of charging battery and adjust POT to see light in neon. Please tell me what you see.I see very weak light in on of then neon terminal. Is that correct ?

When you hook a neon to DC it will only light up one of the prongs inside the bulb, AC lights them both.

kick-bak
08-26-2008, 04:18 PM
Hello.
Have spent countless hours reading here and watching the youtube links posted and i've finally got my SSG running :D
I was too shy to ask noob questions so just kept reading until I was able to piece all the info together to get mine going.
Sephiroth's videos were extremely helpful, thank you , but i made the mistake of trying to build his circuit first which failed to work. Got back to basics and used the circuit at the start of this thread and its worked out great.

VCR motor stripped down
4 Neo magnets held on by aluminum tape
IN4007
IN4148 between Emitter and Base/ cant find IN4001
1K pot with no resistor
0.4 and 0.7 coil wire approx 350 turns
10mm Ferrite core. Cut to size with hammer and chisel :whistle:
Coils wrapped directly onto core.

Using a power supply, Walmart to some, from something, maybe an old modem
just not sure was lying on my work bench. It says its a 9v/500ma but I get 11.5 volts when using my multimeter ?
RPMs unknown but not slow.

Now that I have it running was hoping someone here could point me in the right direction to start doing real test on my SSG. I feel kinda stupid asking this but how do I use my multimeter to get all the Amps/Volts and Ohms data I see being spat out in all these posts ?

Thanks

theremart
08-26-2008, 06:06 PM
Hello.
Have spent countless hours reading here and watching the youtube links posted and i've finally got my SSG running :D
I was too shy to ask noob questions so just kept reading until I was able to piece all the info together to get mine going.
Sephiroth's videos were extremely helpful, thank you , but i made the mistake of trying to build his circuit first which failed to work. Got back to basics and used the circuit at the start of this thread and its worked out great.

VCR motor stripped down
4 Neo magnets held on by aluminum tape
IN4007
IN4148 between Emitter and Base/ cant find IN4001
1K pot with no resistor
0.4 and 0.7 coil wire approx 350 turns
10mm Ferrite core. Cut to size with hammer and chisel :whistle:
Coils wrapped directly onto core.

Using a power supply, Walmart to some, from something, maybe an old modem
just not sure was lying on my work bench. It says its a 9v/500ma but I get 11.5 volts when using my multimeter ?
RPMs unknown but not slow.

Now that I have it running was hoping someone here could point me in the right direction to start doing real test on my SSG. I feel kinda stupid asking this but how do I use my multimeter to get all the Amps/Volts and Ohms data I see being spat out in all these posts ?

Thanks


Welcome aboard!

You have found as I have that the voltage printed on power supplies just aint what comes out of them. Which is ok, just something you need to be aware of.

I do want to thank Sephiroth for his excellent work for newbies how to get their systems going, he has been a big help to me to getting my first one going.

As to how to read your multimeter, first, check that silly thing called a manual if you can find it :) Next best is to look on youtube for videos on electronics, I have found many how to videos there that have helped me along the way when i had questions of what to do. I have found that digital multimeters are not fast enough to give accurate readings. Old analog meters do a much better job.

I think you might find the Yahoo's group monopole section very helpful, they have means of how to measure your output from your SSG. Here is a link to a very well done setup for the monopole group..

http://jasonwolf.com/energy/radiant/index.html

Excellent work there in his spreadsheets and testing out the SSG.

Mart

Guruji
08-26-2008, 06:39 PM
Kickbak even me I could not find the 1N4001.The 1N4148 is good?
Are there other diodes that can be used instead the 1N4001 apart 1N4148?
Thanks.

theremart
08-26-2008, 06:46 PM
Kickbak even me I could not find the 1N4001.The 1N4148 is good?
Are there other diodes that can be used instead the 1N4001 apart 1N4148?
Thanks.

I myself try to stay exactly to spec so I order most of the parts from Mouser or Digikey, or Ebay ( carefully ).

Yes many other diodes will work to allow the wheel to turn, but.....

You are venturing into the unknown. Maybe be good, be not so good....

I like to stay with exact specs, then..... explore all the other alternatives...

But I understand not everyone has the $ to sink into this, and are building from what ever they can lay their hands on. I have found the replications on Sterlings site very very helpful for learning what others have found works..

Directory:Bedini SG:Replications - PESWiki (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bedini_SG:Replications)

I keep going back there because so much can be found out, much more makes sense after building for a while.

Mart

kick-bak
08-27-2008, 01:47 PM
theremart.
Thanks for the quick response :thumbsup:
Will do some more reading and get to using this multimeter i've had for years. Only know how to test voltage, out of circuit resistors/Capacitors and thats it.

Kickbak even me I could not find the 1N4001.The 1N4148 is good?
Are there other diodes that can be used instead the 1N4001 apart 1N4148?
Thanks.

I read a post here that said you could even use the 1N4007 as a replacement for the 1N4001 but I had a few of the 1N4148's handy so tried one of those and the circuit worked. I'm still to work out why the 50v diode is of significance to this part of the circuit. Is 50v the max input you can have going thru the diode before it fails and toasts the transistor ?

citfta
08-27-2008, 02:01 PM
The diode from the base of the transistor to the emitter is only to protect the transistor. The circuit will work without it but you run the risk of destroying the transistor. The diode keeps the reverse current from destroying the base to emitter junction of the transistor. You can also use a 1N914 if you are having trouble finding the 1N4001.

citfta

darkwizard
08-27-2008, 02:45 PM
The diode is for rectifying the two pulses that a magnet generates, and the transistor will switch with the north and virtual south.

The diode here will produce a loop, that trigger the transistor with north and south with the south face.



Do you have tried to run it without that diode?

darkwizard
08-27-2008, 03:15 PM
The diode 1n914 and 1n4148 will work on bedini sg

Robot77
08-28-2008, 08:05 AM
Hi there,

I'm a 100% beginner in making the Bedini SSG-motor, just to learn the basics. Up 'till now I couldn't find enough length of magnetic wire her in the Netherlands.
What I do have is enamel wire diameter 0,8 mm (AWG #20) and 0,2 mm (AWG > #28). Probably both lengths will do for about 600 windings.

Questions:
- in the drawing the length of the coil is 1,5" (4 cm): is that enough ?
- are the wires 0,8 and 0,2 mm. appropriate for the power and trigger ?
- if so, should I use the thicker wire for the power ?

Who can help me ?
Thanks in advance !

Hans

hi hans!
don´t know if you already found something good, but here is a good adress to order wire. i tried conrad.de, but it seems they have only small spools, so try this one: sauter-shop (http://www.kupferlackdraht-shop.de)
anyway... thats not netherlands, but nearby :grindaisy:
robot

selamatg
08-28-2008, 09:41 AM
Hi Robot,

Welcome to the forum......
How your setup going?

Robot77
08-28-2008, 11:56 AM
Hi Robot,

Welcome to the forum......
How your setup going?

hi selamatg!

thanks! still not running :whistle: yesterday i tried that very simple circuit mentioned in the beginning of this thread. but nearly same results. though i could make some good measuring and a magnetic field was established when wheel speed was high enough (but only 3-5 volts coming through the powercoil with 12v input) (about 50mv in TC while field is up - if not only )

i really thing it depends on my coils, so right now i´m waiting for the ordered wire to build me a new one... but, slowly my picture of the whole thing clears up ... and i thought about building that whole thing more openly so that every part of the circuit could be replaced pretty quick...

so again... the real revolution should be the evolution of the mind ... :rolleyes:

hopefully more to come,
robot

darkwizard
08-28-2008, 01:05 PM
The diode here will increase the south pulse positive voltage and current and keep the transistor safe in the north pulse negative current.

A little moment before virtual south appears... the transistor will trigger on and the coil will charge with current... and this will move the rotor.

A simulation, the trigger coil generates a sine wave, not a perfectly one but, this will simulate very well what is happening here:

http://www.energeticforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1078&stc=1&d=1219929507
http://www.energeticforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1079&stc=1&d=1219929747

darkwizard
08-28-2008, 02:32 PM
try to decrease the base resistor on the transistor , it will produce a voltage increase in the trigger, the resistor in this particular case will decrease the voltage and current and will put some kind of energy here that trigger the transistor this is from my own experience, but if you don't have the minimun current and voltage the transistor will not function properly.

I don't know why my transistor triggers with values 680 ohm resistance in my setup, :confused: , what i saying here is : the colector emitter voltage is 12 volts when the transistor triggers on, the current 50 ma, with a base emitter voltage of 2 or 3 volts and current 1 or 2 ma , this is no conventional trigger!


http://www.energeticforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1080&stc=1&d=1219935873

simulating my setup, 1hz frequency here is just only to view the wave in the right form

BinzerBob
08-29-2008, 12:51 AM
Has anyone tried the Trigger and Energized winding in the bifilar setup to have the same gauge?

I was thinking of making a new coil, with 28 awg and 28awg (instead of say 23awg and 28 awg).

Any comments on what I am thinking of doing? The real reason is cost. I already made two coils, one uses 20 awg and 24 awg. The 20 awg wire makes the coil get very wide and expensive. I have another coil made with 24awg and 28 awg. I ran out of the 24 awg and have very much 28 awg (thinner wire the coils are very small for 500 turns!!! and not so expensive)

theremart
08-29-2008, 01:16 AM
Has anyone tried the Trigger and Energized winding in the bifilar setup to have the same gauge?

I was thinking of making a new coil, with 28 awg and 28awg (instead of say 23awg and 28 awg).

Any comments on what I am thinking of doing? The real reason is cost. I already made two coils, one uses 20 awg and 24 awg. The 20 awg wire makes the coil get very wide and expensive. I have another coil made with 24awg and 28 awg. I ran out of the 24 awg and have very much 28 awg (thinner wire the coils are very small for 500 turns!!! and not so expensive)

Hi,

I have done this several times... Not optimal, but does work. What I have found that works even better for me is to wind the power coils first, then wind the trigger on top. This gives you more power as the power coil is closer to the core.

Much depends on what you are trying to do... You want the coil to match the size of your batteries. If it is getting hot it may be you do not have enough winds on the coil, I had this problem when I made my multicoiler..

dambit
08-29-2008, 03:48 AM
You want the coil to match the size of your batteries. If it is getting hot it may be you do not have enough winds on the coil, I had this problem when I made my multicoiler..

Hi Mart,

Is there a calculation you use to do this or just a guestimate.

Cheers,

Steve

ren
08-29-2008, 06:16 AM
It has alot to do with the impedance of the battery Steve. I cannot go much further than that because I dont know much about it. There are better wire gauges for larger batteries than the 23/26 IMO.

dambit
08-29-2008, 07:59 AM
I read somewhere that JB uses 18 Awg for his power coils, but that could be false. On the DVD the strands look pretty thick on the rotary device. (I know they are twisted). That would make sense as the device apparently has a very low overall impedance.

Cheers,

Steve

ren
08-29-2008, 08:08 AM
Go for 1mm wire, and multifilars:thumbsup:

100ft AWG 18 (SWG 19) x 4
100ft AWG 21-23 (approx SWG equal) x 1 for the master coil

100ft AWG 18 x 4 for all slave coils if multifilar.

Easiest way to make a big charger? Bundle as many lengths as you can onto one spool!

You could use 300ft lengths (or anything over 100ft for that matter, or under even) it all depends on what you want. Check the resistance of all power windings together, litzing can be advantageous in this circumstance.

BinzerBob
08-30-2008, 12:02 AM
Thanks for the replies.

I believe there is a trade off, the thicker wire should have less resistance and thus produce less system losses.. but the coil gets very fat. I am not sure what effect the wire winding geometry has on the electromagnet/pickup. For instance my one coil is about 6 cm in diameter while the other one which uses the thinner wire is only 3.5 cm in diameter. I am not sure how having the wire out on the outer edge of the larger coil compares in its magnetic effectiveness against the same outer wire on the smaller coil. It is much further from the iron core.

To keep the coil thinner and say to use less wire, one might consider to use a longer coil. But even this would increase system losses because there is more Iron core. There might be a optimal relationship between number windings, length of coil, size of wire etc to produce the best setup. But to consider this I think would be involved mathematically, or numerically (beyond what I want to consider or likely can figure).

I like the concept of first winding the energized coil then the pickup coil.

Thanks for all the replies.... now I have to make another coil. :confused:

Anyway.

dambit
08-30-2008, 01:46 AM
Well, when I was figuring out the dimentions of my coils, I measured JB's ones on the dvd using references from objects of a known size. I figure if there good enough for him there good enough for me. :) The size I came up with is approximately 4" long by 3" wide with a 3/4" core.

I find that with a bobbin this size I can get about 900+ turns with four strands of 23AWG and one of 25AWG. I have found this size coil to be very effective and it doesn't get hot.

Cheers,

Steve

theremart
08-30-2008, 02:08 AM
Hi Mart,

Is there a calculation you use to do this or just a guestimate.

Cheers,

Steve

I make this up as I go... :) But the best measure is to look at working systems and replicate.

but I got that manly from reading the dialoug between Sterling and Bedini. Bedini instructed Sterling on how to improve his setup.

Mart

kick-bak
08-30-2008, 03:04 PM
Hi again.
Just a quick update on my sg.
Went out and bought a digital tacho n some more wire today.
She doing around 2500 - 2600rpm with 1 master and 1 slave coil. Only getting 4v out but at least im getting something back :)
Gotta make better coils, damn wire keeps rolling off the edge when using my electric drill to wind on the wire. I'm only using thick cardboard on the edges of my spools till I get hold of some welding rods and can then make real spools like you guys make.
I'd luv to share picks but the sg looks more like a Frankenstein and i'm already starting to loose track of what wire goes where.
Please keep posting picks of your setups as they are of great inspiration to me :D

Guruji
08-31-2008, 11:17 AM
Hi guys I did another coil and changed the resistor and when I tried it one of the coil sings.Ok they said its self oscillating but does it charge the batteries and what about the second coil that I did?
It's useless now cause only the primary coil is singing?
Thanks.

theremart
08-31-2008, 12:30 PM
Hi guys I did another coil and changed the resistor and when I tried it one of the coil sings.Ok they said its self oscillating but does it charge the batteries and what about the second coil that I did?
It's useless now cause only the primary coil is singing?
Thanks.

Normally that is a sign that your resistance that you added is too high. Best to stay to the standard schematics before changing things.

Keep at it !! :thumbsup:

Guruji
08-31-2008, 03:03 PM
Hi theremart thanks for response.I stayed with the schematic that had posted sephirot in Bedini SG forum page21.I had a 680ohm resistor to the primary coil and changed it to 100ohm as shown in the multicoil schematic that was shown here.So I should leave the primary 680ohms then?
Thanks

ren
09-02-2008, 08:31 AM
Hi Guruji,

Im a little confused, you say your are adding 680 ohms to your primary? No resistance should be added to the primary, the primary is the winding which power flows through upon switch closure.

If you mean secondary, which is the trigger wire, then 680 ohm is the base resistance. If your coil is a little smaller then I would suggest 100 ohms to start with. If it is a tiny coil (400 or less turns) then 10- 50 ohms until you get the feel of it. Once you establish a good ohm range wire in a suitable resistor and use a smaller pot for your tuning.

@kickbak. How are you measuring the 4 volts out off the second coil. Or more importantly how is that coil configured? Use something a little stiffer for your coils. PVC works good. Or craft MDF sheets.

theremart
09-02-2008, 12:41 PM
I would like to see your schematic, I just looked at mine it it has 22 ohms at the base with a light for a resistor.

I agree with Ren, 680 is HIGH...

kick-bak
09-02-2008, 02:37 PM
@kickbak. How are you measuring the 4 volts out off the second coil. Or more importantly how is that coil configured? Use something a little stiffer for your coils. PVC works good. Or craft MDF sheets.

Second coil is power only with its own transistor. both transistors use common Base and Emitter connections. Diodes off the Collectors join and connect to a analog volt meter from Jaycar so 4 volts would be the total output of both coils. Single coil setup gave me 2.5 volts.

Voltage across the Emitter and Collector of the second coil reads 19 volts ac yet when I connect a neon across there the neon lights up :confused: thought these things only lit above 90v?

Voltage across the Emitter and Collector of the bifilar coil reads 17 volts ac and when a noen is connected across there it don't light up 'much confusion'
The coils were quickly made with about 350 turns each, have since beefed up the coil end caps with perspex but the second coil has a few loose windings and is a little pear shaped and hiss's when the SG is running. If I connect the neon across E/C the hissing stops. I suspect the coil is vibrating and will be making a new set of coils soon.

Jaycar supply only 100g spools of 0.6 wire and 25g spools of 0.4 wire so my coils are made up of joined pieces and this wire is a buggar to solder. Have now just bought a 4kg roll of 0.6 and a 3kg spool of 0.4 so will now be able to make decent sized coils.

The spaghetti pic shows a spare transistor in the breadboard. The other transistor is out of shot :o

Guruji
09-05-2008, 06:20 PM
Hi guys thanks for help yes with 10ohms to trigger turned.
The thing is that the variable resistor is useless.Cause for rotor to spin I have to turn the variabe resistor to 0.If I turn it a bit it slows down and stops.
Why is this?
What is it's purpose the VR?
Thanks

EgmQC
09-05-2008, 08:35 PM
Hi Mart,

Is there a calculation you use to do this or just a guestimate.

Cheers,

Steve

Hi Steve,

To match the coil with the battery you use the C20 rules , so if the C20 rules tell you that you can at max use 0.4 amp then your coil should have a impedance of 30ohm (12v/30 Omh = 0.4 amp). Im maybe wrong but its the way i understand it.

Best Regards,
Eric

theremart
09-05-2008, 11:19 PM
Hi Steve,

To match the coil with the battery you use the C20 rules , so if the C20 rules tell you that you can at max use 0.4 amp then your coil should have a impedance of 30ohm (12v/30 Omh = 0.4 amp). Im maybe wrong but its the way i understand it.

Best Regards,
Eric

Yikes....

I have 200 amp hour batteries.... I need 5 amp resistance? I don't intend on using 10 Amps :)

That would make alot of sense...

dambit
09-06-2008, 02:14 AM
Hi Steve,

To match the coil with the battery you use the C20 rules , so if the C20 rules tell you that you can at max use 0.4 amp then your coil should have a impedance of 30ohm (12v/30 Omh = 0.4 amp). Im maybe wrong but its the way i understand it.

Best Regards,
Eric

Hi Eric,

That's a pretty high value. My largest coils only have an impedance of approx 1 to 3 ohms. Also which winding are we talking about, the trigger winding or all of them? I might do some tests by placing a resistor between the power coil and the transistor connection, because the trigger coil already has its own ones for tuning.

I have interpreted you equation as follows.

Ah rating divided by 20 equals C20 rating.
Battery voltage divided by C20 rating equals coil impedance value.

Cheers,

Steve

dambit
09-06-2008, 02:18 AM
Yikes....

I have 200 amp hour batteries.... I need 5 amp resistance? I don't intend on using 10 Amps :)

That would make alot of sense...

Hi Mart,

According to Erics equation, if you have a 12V 200 Ah battery than your coil impedance should be 1.2 ohms.

Cheers,

Steve.

EgmQC
09-06-2008, 02:27 AM
Yikes....

I have 200 amp hour batteries.... I need 5 amp resistance? I don't intend on using 10 Amps :)

That would make alot of sense...

Hi theremart,

Realy nice question, i realy dont know what to answer, like i said i think its the way to match the impedance of the coil with the battery but im not 100% sure.Maybe someone with a better knowledge than me can answer that question because if the output in radiant need to match boths impedance, if one is lower than the other, i dont know if the charging side will have enought, i use currently only small battery (SLA 12V 8amp) so i cant test it right now. If someone can confirm the way to match the coil impedance with the battery that will be nice if im wrong.

Best Regards,
Eric