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Aaron
04-26-2007, 11:55 PM
Bedini SG discussion here. For single or multi coil and/or multi strand. The simplified version to charge batts without the cap setup.

Get a copy of the only Authorized Bedini SG Handbook - Bedini SSG (http://www.emediapress.com/go.php?offer=qiman&pid=36)

Aaron
05-09-2007, 10:35 PM
John Bedini | Radiant Energy (http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/index.html)

Aaron
06-14-2007, 12:52 AM
A Bedini circuit I built with a reel to reel motor John gave me
a few years ago.

Pretty cool and interesting SG. Very fast and very efficient.
Charges batts pretty good. I never measured efficiency. If I put
1 batt bank on the output or 4, it doesn't really change the input
it doesn't care. Of course can grab the shaft to increase the load
and the input does not increase.

5000 rpm it draws 1 amp avg
10,000 rpm it draws only 1/5 of an amp avg

Video clip:
http://www.esmhome.org/library/aaron-murakami/aaron-sg.wmv

Aaron
06-18-2007, 08:38 AM
John Bedini | Radiant Energy (http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/index.html)

can watch the reel to reel motor video on youtube.

Shamus
08-17-2007, 04:14 AM
@Kevin: I would strongly encourage you to do it an hour at a time if you have to, and please post progress reports! :) And yes, I've gotten bit by the high voltage coming off the power coil more than once! ;)

Well, since I'm kinda stuck at the moment waiting for magnet wire to arrive before I can finish building the current machine, I thought I'd post a few thoughts on it--even though only one coil is present, it's got a diode hanging off the collector, so it counts in my opinion. :D The schematic below shows its current state.

Yes, curiosity got the better of me and I've tried charging 1.5V AA cells as part of a 6V battery. It seems to work somewhat, though I haven't done any rigorous testing. I did notice that the rotor slows down when there's a battery in the charge position. Interesting! I know that you probably won't get optimum results using these types of cells, but it seems to me that if the negentropy process that Tom and John talk about in the provisional patent application listed in Free Energy Generation is correct, then it should be possible to charge these kinds of cells as well. Just a thought.

Another interesting thing that I've seen (er, heard) with this machine is what I call 'the hum'. One time, before I soldered the components in place, I had to re-hookup the parts because they had wiggled loose. Once I had them connected back together and connected power (without a charging battery hooked up) I noticed a fairly loud hum coming out of the coil! The coil wasn't heating up and the neither was the transistor, but it pushed the magnets of the rotor out of the way so that the coil was in the middle of two magnets. Interesting! The hum stopped immediately as I disconnected the battery. After I connected power again, the hum started again. This time, I tried to see if there was anything coming off the diode but the meter reading was inconclusive. Strangest of all, when I connected a battery to the charging position the hum stopped as well. Curiouser and curiouser... :)

After I disconnected the charge battery the hum didn't come back, but it did come back a while later. It seems to be a bit capricious, this hum. ;) I did notice that it was much easier to get the rotor spinning up to speed when the coil was humming versus when it wasn't. It seems these machines are full of surprises. :D And maybe I didn't notice it before, but it seems that there's also a faint hum in the coil of the first machine that I built as well.

A question comes to mind about this circuit. In the PPA in Free Energy Generation it's stressed that the radiant energy capture circuit has to be separated from the drive circuit, but in the circuit below, this is clearly not the case. Also, I have strong reason to believe that the circuit below works well (I can elaborate if necessary ;)), although some changes in the resistor are probably needed for optimum operation. It could be that I'm missing something obvious--after all, I'm still experimenting and learning this stuff first hand and trying to make sense of it all. :thumbsup:

Aaron
08-17-2007, 04:27 AM
Very Cool! Schematic looks good. Very nice bare bones ssg.

Those alkaline batts aren't the best but they can be charged at least a few times from my experience before having to throw them away. I'd recommend using some 6v and/or 12v gel cell batts...the black body type you can get at radio shack or elsewhere.

Those are good to learn with.

The hum you discovered is the circuit is self oscillating at high frequency. Most likely this is what is happening. If you have a scope on it, you will see something like this pic.
http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/oscope.jpg

I played with my roller skate motor for months before doing anything else. Not even trying to charge anything with it. Will learn a lot more if you just get obsessed about the bare basic model first without doing anything else. In my opinion.

Shamus
08-26-2007, 01:20 PM
@Aaron: Thanks for the clarification. I think I've learned what I need to from the SG by itself--needless to say, there's probably more secrets in that thing than I've found so far. It continues to surprise me, especially in light of how simple it appears. :) I'm sure you're probably aware of John Bedini's sense of urgency in wanting people to learn the technology (as expressed in this (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_SG/message/5326) message). I have every reason to believe that he's right, and mostly from what I've been seeing from independent sources. The time is short. And I'm sure you'd agree that this isn't the place to discuss such things. :)

At any rate, I've started some preliminary load testing, and the data so far is encouraging. :) Under the first load test, the battery took about 45 minutes to discharge down to 12.00V (under a 25W load running from a voltage inverter). Charging took about 30 hours to get it up to 13.46V (have to retune the thing for a PSU). :p Running another load test, the battery took about 60 minutes to discharge down to 12.00V under the same load. So there's something very interesting going on here. I'll post more details as testing progresses. :thumbsup:

Aaron
08-26-2007, 10:42 PM
Hi Shamus,

Sounds like great progress. The capacity of your battery is growing as you condition them. You are literally changing the properties of the battery. Should grow in capacity and take less and less time to charge up to the same level.

John has known the urgency for years but it isn't until recent times that people are paying attention. With gas prices going up and insane politics, people are starting to pay attention.

The Bedini technology and water fuel cell technology are my two favorite ones to focus on.

Shamus
08-30-2007, 04:16 PM
Well, I'm in round four of charging and things haven't been coming along as well as I had hoped. I'm not going to stop here until I see a solid trend, but the preliminaries thus far are not encouraging. That and the fact that it takes about 30-40 hours for one charge cycle! :eek:

Load times are staying fairly flat so far. Here's the numbers so far:

Charge T Chg End V Ld St V Load T
-------- --------- ------- ------
12.85 00:44
32:50 13.46 13.34 00:57
29:48 13.47 13.36 00:48
40:20 13.89 13.52 01:03


This is a regular old Radio Shack lead-acid battery, 12V/7Ah. I'm discharging it into a 350W inverter and powering a 25W bulb for load testing. It's strange: Once it gets up to around 13.30V the charging seems to hit a wall--only gaining 0.01V per hour. :( Now I've read where John Bedini says that the number of turns on the coil isn't important, nor its size. Maybe I'm getting some cross-conduction on my transistor (since it's 2N3055, which John considers junk)? I don't know how to check for that. John also says that you want the highest resistance on the base so that you get the highest RPM for the lowest current. Currently the RPM on my circuit is fairly high, and the base resistance is right around 1100 ohm.

Anyway, I'll post more results as they slooooowly come in. ;)

NOTE: The missing data in the graph around hours 9-10 and 16-22 are due to an outside obligation at the time and the need for sleep. :)

Aaron
08-31-2007, 09:53 AM
Hi Shamus, on these smaller systems, the charging will be much slower, but usually after many rounds of conditioning, the charging back up will get quicker and quicker.

A 5 coil setup (4 power 1 trigger) of about 18 guage 100 feet long each is for more practical application but before doing that in my opinion...getting the whole personality of the motor you have down is very crucial, in my opinion.

amigo
09-13-2007, 01:04 AM
After winding and rewinding several different coils, I have built one that I sort of like (for now). I had previously built a SSG with a 26+24 AWG so I used that as a base for a coil. On top of that I wound trifilar 20 AWG as power coil.

The motor works ok I suppose, what I'm wondering about is why do we need to tie all the multi-filar strands in the power coil together in parallel (for the circuit that does not have transistor per each coil)?
When I keep them parallel I get about 100V radiant spikes, but when I tie them in series then I get little over 400V. Isn't it better to have higher potential?

Are we looking for less or more resistance in the power coil? What about the trigger coil, should that be on a higher resistance?

Also, the conclusion I came to is that 2N3055 is a joke compared to MJL21194 and that even for beginning circuits everyone should use the later. There's just a magnitude of quality difference between the two that cannot be ignored. My motor just purrrrs nicer with MJL21194 and can be fine tuned to a better degree than with 2N3055. :D

Next I'm adding this Cap Pulse Timer circuit (http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/gH3oRnIUo2a-5y3862aB699yAco_sJ_CCv7JzMBPsB-qb5GB3U-nx_0mAW3p1nuRBH1LGtbQ2OnbY8r2qYmRxn1700shLeo/Vlusta%20Files/Bedini_Trifilar_SG_Cap_Pulser.gif) (link from Bedini_SG Yahoo group, I'd figure most of you are members there, no?) , has anyone else built this one and has any experiences to share?

Oh forgot to add this. I built this coil (http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_SG/photos/view/79a1?b=5) and it worked (sort of because I did not wind to that size but smaller) but only if I pointed it in reverse (power coils toward the rotor). It was producing all kinds of strange sounds and would draw quite a current (1-2A sometimes). Somehow I could tune it down to 400mA and I'd get over 300V radiant spikes as well.

Funny thing is that I have never seen my NE-2 bulb light up (dimly) when I touch the collector of the transistor on other setups except this one, and there was no primary or secondary batteries connected. :confused:
Is this normal behaviour and does it happen for you or did I stumble upon something unexpected?

Shamus
09-13-2007, 12:25 PM
Hola Amigo,

What is the difference between the 2N3055 and the MJL21194? I know the characteristics of the other parts (the 1N914 is a fast switching diode, the 1N4007 is a high power/voltage diode, etc) but when it comes to transistors I don't know squat. What are the characteristics that we're supposed to be looking for in this part? Power rating is one, but I have no idea what the others should be.

If you don't know, maybe someone else who does can kindly interject. :)

Shamus
09-13-2007, 05:07 PM
Sometimes things just stare you in the face and you don't realize the implications until much later, when the connection finally manifests itself to you in a form so clear that you wonder why you didn't see it before. :thinking:

All of this arose because I was thinking of Rick Freidrich and the struggles he's gone through trying to convince people of what they had with the SSG. And the problem probably stemmed from the fact that most people don't have any understanding of conventional electronics theory--they just built the things, connecting the parts as shown in the schematic, and didn't really think all that much about it.

So in the midst of pondering this, all of the sudden it hit me like a ton of bricks!

:suprise:

Take a look at the picture and circled part. The way the diode is hooked up means that absolutely no current will flow at any time according to conventional EM theory. The positive from the charging battery is blocked by virtue of being connected to the cathode of the diode coming off of the power coil! So simple! Yet so diabolically clever!

The way that diode sits in the circuit (again, according to conventional theory) means that it's basically an open short--you could remove the diode and battery completely because they have absolutely no path where a current can flow through them!

:thinking: :suprise: :rofl:

After going through several charge/discharge cycles, you have to wonder just what is charging the battery? 'Cause it sure ain't electrons! ;)

Ted Ewert
09-13-2007, 07:14 PM
Hi Shamus,
That diode does indeed pass current (and the more the better! :-). Think of it as a compression diode.
When the transistor first turns on, the current from the battery is temporarily attenuated by the coil. Current will not flow until the magnetic field is built up around the coil.
Consequently, when the transistor turns off, that field collapses and produces a high positive voltage right where the cathode of that diode is. If this voltage is not bled off, it will increase on subsequent cycles and blow up your transistor in many cases.
It is this energy that is extracted buy the interaction of the magnet, coil and pulses that charges the battery so well.
Voltage alone won't charge these batteries. They need a combination of high voltage and low impedance in short duration pulses.
Note on batteries:
Batteries take a while to become conditioned. Don't get discouraged if they don't work so great even through the first 10 or even 20 cycles. It usually doesn't take that long, but there are different types of batteries, sizes and chargers that make this an inexact science at best.
None of the Bedini machines work that well on unconditioned batteries. That's one of the reasons I think people get discouraged. It also takes a while to get used to how the machines work.
The SSG is an awesome machine for learning about this technology. The more you fool around with it and experiment, the more you will learn. It is a very simple machine electrically, but it embodies all the concepts Bedini has worked so many years to discover.
It's all there for those who are patient and persistent. It just takes a while to learn.

Ted

adam ant
09-14-2007, 12:15 AM
has anyone ever tried to use AC on a bedini sg?

the reason i ask is that i wonder if you could use the wall current, and return it back to another outlet and reverse the Electric Meter outside. you would in a sense be "recharging" the electric company. in most states (in the US) they will pay you for power generated and sent to them. this would eliminate the need for 20 - 30 car batteries, noxious fumes, you could eliminate your electric bill, and possibly make some extra money on top of it.

is this possible?

-bryan

amigo
09-14-2007, 01:24 AM
In one of my experiments (now it escapes my mind whether I had that "weird" coil or was it a normal one hooked up - should start keeping lab notes, sigh) I used my DC power supply set to 12V as a primary.

I left the motor spinning and walk away from the desk for a bit. Came back and just looked around the desk then gazed up at the voltage indicator on the psu and it showed 16 or so volts. I was thinking what a ... so I unplug the motor and lo and behold the voltage went back to 12V.

It would appear that the motor was feeding back some potential/energy back into the psu, while at the same time charging the secondary battery and spinning pretty fast.

Sorry it's not directly AC related but I figured it might be relevant...

adam ant
09-14-2007, 01:58 AM
i wouldnt be comfortable trying the AC experiment myself, as my electrical knowledge is old and rusty. i would be a bit nervous about doing major damage, shocking myself, or who knows what else.

i figured someone would have tried it by now, or at least thought about it.

Kevin
09-14-2007, 06:28 AM
Adam,

Since it is a cold charge there are no fumes generated when charging the batteries with the SG charger....batteries never get even warm.

Aaron, correct me if I am wrong....but I believe the voltage spikes going into the battery are AC, not DC. (the neon light that lights up when it is running is a 120v ac light)

Yes, Shamus, (Kevin hangs his head in shame-:embarrassed: ) I am one of those guys that took the schematic, some explanation from Aaron, and some TRV data and just built it. Did not concentrate too much on how it worked...only as much as I need to in order to get the most usable energy for the energy spent. :)

amigo
09-14-2007, 12:15 PM
Kevin,

I think that the spikes are DC (basically PWM) - they are half-wave, rectified by the diode on the collector, no? The NE is before the diode thus it lights up only on AC.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong :)

Shamus
09-14-2007, 04:39 PM
@Kevin: I was speaking mainly of the people on the Bedini_SG list who were demanding overunity from the machine without really comprehending what was right in front of their eyes, and Rick's frustration with said people. ;) At any rate, I'm just trying to figure out this stuff too since something seems to be very wrong with my setup. I'm in round 14 of load testing and the load times have been dropping about a 1/2 hour each time. :(

Ted Ewert
09-14-2007, 09:08 PM
It's pulsed DC. The FWBR just gets it going in the right direction.
Neons don't care and will light on anything at their rated voltage.

Aaron
09-15-2007, 08:51 AM
Hey Kevin,

Ditto to Ted's answer.

Also, another thing to throw into the mix Shamus is that when the circuit is in resonance (you can usually hear and see the wheel speed up really quick like shifting gears), it is fast enough at that point that the "scalar south" between the north faces on magnets are ATTRACTED to the NORTH field on the coil pulse. At that time, the wheel is spinning for FREE! That is a good one to meditate on.

The sg seems to only take power because there is back emf on the on pulse for a small blip of time and that is it.

Before the circuit is in resonance (with rotor), it takes more power to charge an electromagnetic coil against a magnet with an opposing field. But a south field in between the norths actually helps pull that north field out of the coil easier! This is how I see it at least but no matter how it is seen, the wheel spins for free :) and the charging of the coil has it's own loss but that isn't what powers the wheel.

adam ant
09-15-2007, 01:03 PM
thank you for the explanation, but that brings me back to my original question

has anyone ever tried to use wall AC current on the Bedini SG(battery charger version), and if it was possible to use this setup to send the power back to the electric company.

Kevin
09-16-2007, 08:31 PM
Thank you Ted and Aaron.

As you know Aaron, :) once I got the thing functional with two circuits and started having a COP of 1.00+ I just concentrated on tuning it/experimenting to get the best COP I could. :suprise:

Shamus, Aaron or Ted or ?, may correct me, but if I recall I did NOT start seeing any significant COP of 1+ until AFTER my batteries were conditioned. This takes about 20-30 charge/discharge cycles.

Another thing...I am sure it is because my wheel is not perfectly balanced, and because they are cheap bicycle bearings, but I found that the best RPM for my setup is between 295 and 300.

I can get the RPM up to 900+, but when I do that the ratio of energy expended to energy captured in the charging batteries is not as beneficial COP wise.

Of course, every setup is different.

There are so many factors in tuning the charger-here is a list of just a few of the variables that I constantly played with:

Resistance
RPM
Distance of magnets on wheel from coil
Making sure all the wires from the coil to the different connections were the same length and as straight as possible.
Experimenting with different gauge wire leading to the charging battery
Getting the voltage spikes as clean as possible on the oscilloscope
There is more, but those are the biggies that I can remember right now.

:)

Adam, regarding plugging into AC...that seems like oil and water to me...Aaron can correct me if I am wrong, but the energy "captured" by the SG is not able to be measured in a typical manner and is specifically usable by batteries.


Oh Shamus, btw, I started out using the little gel cell 12 volt batteries from Radio Shack...everything worked fine on those, but I soon changed to full size deep cycle 12 volt batteries for the majority of my testing.

:thumbsup:

Shamus
09-16-2007, 09:11 PM
@adam_ant: Like Kevin said, it probably won't work without doing something to transduce the hole current to an electron current. At any rate, it's certainly possible and people with solar and other more conventional overunity (err, COP > 1.0) systems sell excess power to the Electric Company all the time. If you do follow that course of action, you would do well to have a fake solar array somewhere just in case the Electric Co. comes snooping around. You don't want to mess with those guys. ;)

@Kevin: Is what I have a gel cell? And how did you source your deep cell batteries? I do know that you can get them on the cheap if they're not new (and of course, that would be preferable), I just don't know where to get 'em. :)

amigo
09-17-2007, 03:25 PM
Shamus, that's a gel-cell.

I got mine from a surplus store though it's not 7Ah like yours but only 2.3Ah, for $1.95 each can't go wrong. :)
Plus the battery seems brand new, plastic case looks pretty clean with just minor scrathes and the two connectors do not appear to have been used what so ever. Naturally I bought half a dozen...

Shamus
09-17-2007, 10:25 PM
Ah, heck, that's what I was afraid of... I've been loading it down to 12.00V for each load cycle, which is a sure path to damage. :( Oh well, live and learn. :)

Kevin
09-17-2007, 11:30 PM
Most of my batteries are generic Walmart deep cycle and/or Marine batteries. I do have a couple car batteries that "died" and were discarded because they would not take a charge from a traditional battery charger.

After a couple dozen cycles on the SG they work like new! :thumbsup:

gehko
09-18-2007, 02:56 PM
thank you for the explanation, but that brings me back to my original question

has anyone ever tried to use wall AC current on the Bedini SG(battery charger version), and if it was possible to use this setup to send the power back to the electric company.

I did some fiddling with the AC idea and Shamus's circuit and came up with this circuit. It seems to give off a similar spike, but instead of using the Bedini magnet wheel it uses the ac frequency. At the bottom you can see the 19.7 kV spikes, and the OUT is where you would put the charge battery. I dont know how efficient it is, i just thought i would try the idea on "paper". I havent built it in real life.

amigo
09-18-2007, 10:40 PM
I'm not sure that simulation software can give us a real picture of the outcome. I thought that we are dealing here with "unwanted by-products" that most traditional engineers consider as noise and interference and want to surpress and filter out.
Software would most likely ignore it or discard it due to being based on convenitonal methods and beliefs, too?

@adam ant

What did you mean when you said to use wall AC current? Use it as a primary battery replacement, without any conversion to DC or just as a trigger?

adam ant
09-19-2007, 02:39 AM
any or all of the above. i just ordered enough supplies to build about 10 Bedini SG's so i will start conducting my own tests.

gehko
09-19-2007, 04:04 AM
@amigo: When designing a circuit you add in a bunch of safeties and "what if" situations but the software is only as smart as the EE and therefore whatever physical rules apply to the component are displayed in the software. I.E. if i built a circuit with 19.5 kV spikes, i would quickly *fix* the circuit.

unmodify
09-19-2007, 08:08 PM
Hello, I'm very new with all of this, <month I didn't have a clue how to use a transistor. I cobbled together a full sg motor, and have and continue to play with and study any and all that I can with it.

Regarding using AC wall current: I used a plug-in battery charger; takes wall ac and outputs dc; and it felt like the motor wouldn't stabilize. To elaborate, In playing with it I found with my batteries they would hit spots where they would ...how do I describe this... well, I use a variable 5k ohm potentiometer and if I have it set to 0, the current draw hops all over, and it runs but really badly, like it's being flooded with current. When I trim it some it will rise in speed and the current draw will stabilize, sometimes hopping down quite a few milliamps (on my motor from 300ish to 180ish), if the battery has a fair amount of juice I can trim it more and it will kinda like get a second wind, it will speed up even more and the current draw that sustains this is much less. So what I mean about the power from the wall socket charger not stabilizing is that it wouldn't behave like the batteries would, it would act like I had the pot set to 0 ohms no matter what I did. So one conclusion I made is that the supplied current needs to be steady, batteries I imagine can only supply so much and don't change how fast they release the energy inside themselves.

I figure the wall battery charger is just designed to flood the battery or load, with as much juice as it wants, so it always varies. Or maybe there is something to the nature of the wall ac, it's always flipping back and forth...well I'm pretty new, my guess is it's just the way the plug-in charger works.

I believe that's undesirable ya? We want the circuit to synchronize it's operation so the electron movement is as close to nil as possible so the radiant energy fractionation can take place consistently.

...or are these motors just simply designed to be efficient. The reduction of counter emf, the tiny load and adding a recovery circuit is it designed to be more productive than the draw it takes? All of the above?

My current test model is pretty frankenstein; a shopping car wheel, a nail with wire around it, tons of radio shack do-dads. I intend to build another more efficient one. I read some of you added more energizers and more coils on each energizer, is there an optimal amount of turns? is there an excessive amount? When you put multiple coils on the same spool do you hook them in parallel or series? Does the number of turns on the trigger coil affect it's performance? I plan to test and find these answers myself, but if someone has traveled those roads already and can pass along their insight and discoveries it would be totally appreciated.

Thank you
Jesse

amigo
09-19-2007, 10:29 PM
My current test model is pretty frankenstein; a shopping car wheel, a nail with wire around it, tons of radio shack do-dads. I intend to build another more efficient one. I read some of you added more energizers and more coils on each energizer, is there an optimal amount of turns? is there an excessive amount? When you put multiple coils on the same spool do you hook them in parallel or series? Does the number of turns on the trigger coil affect it's performance? I plan to test and find these answers myself, but if someone has traveled those roads already and can pass along their insight and discoveries it would be totally appreciated.

Thank you
Jesse

Welcome aboard :)

I can say with confidence that number of turns on the trigger coil definitely makes a difference. You should have as many as you can squeeze on your spool, but that depends if you have used a pre-made spool or made your own.
I have experimented with some alternative designs where trigger coil was wound next to a drive coil and trigger not having enough wounds made it so that the motor would barely work. It would actually work when the coil is facing the opposite direction (drive coil towards the rotor instead of the trigger coil).

With n-filar power coils, I have tried parallel and serial. Parallel would give me far smaller voltage spikes than serial yet everyone seems to say that parallel is the way to go (at least it is when you are making a multi transistor power setup where each coil wind gets a transistor).

I have tried winding n-filar and also power over the trigger+drive; n-filar is when you wind three or more (pre-twisted) strands simultaneously (for example trigger, drive and one power).

Alternative design that I'm playing with now has a trigger+drive wound first (26 + 24 AWG), then on top of that three-filar (20 AWG) power as many winds as possible to fit. When connected in series the power winds give me over 400V spikes, while in parallel I get about 150V+.

These are just some of my observations, best way to learn is to try yourself. JB is right when he says that people in general have stopped experimenting. They simple do what they are told (put this here and that there and it's done) by our conventional science that "knows it all".

unmodify
09-20-2007, 03:15 AM
Gracias para la ayuda y para los bienvenido, amigo :D

with my current energizer I've got my trigger and power coil wound at the same time I think about 270ish winds are in the trigger coil. Yes I plan adding lots more winds, it seemed to me that would be where the most leverage would be. I'm curious though, are large spikes desirable, I read something bearden wrote about being careful about them, to not detonate the battery?

Either way you've given me a bit more impetus to make much bigger coils as my next step in testing. I'll be getting right on that.

Thank you

adam ant
09-20-2007, 04:14 AM
Unmodify

you posted this

I figure the wall battery charger is just designed to flood the battery or load, with as much juice as it wants, so it always varies. Or maybe there is something to the nature of the wall ac, it's always flipping back and forth...well I'm pretty new, my guess is it's just the way the plug-in charger works.



that is my point, it provides as much juice as needed... if you were to return this back to the electric company, you would be making money off of them AND powering your house at the same time. instead of routing your output to charge a battery, run it back into a seperate wall outlet.

Shamus
10-11-2007, 05:04 AM
I stumbled upon an interesting characteristic of the SSG: it emits audio even when not in self-oscillation mode! :) And since the waveforms (attached below) are fairly uniform, this means I can use it to measure RPM without a tachometer. :D

BTW, I acquired a real, though quite dead, lead-acid battery that had been sitting in a rusted out old riding lawnmower for who knows how long. After I cleaned it up, I checked the electrolyte levels (still fairly high) and the voltage (half a volt). I built a new rotor and got some MJL21194Gs and finally got around to adding the second coil. After about eight rounds or so of charging and discharging, that sucker has come back to life! Yeah, I know, same old boring story. ;) Still, it's one thing to read about this stuff and quite another to see it for yourself. :blowout: So far the load times have been going up; it'll be interesting to see how much it comes back from the dead.

The other two coils are just waiting to be put in. Now it's just a matter of finding a block of time to install them and their associated circuits. ;) I'll post pictures soon...

For those who want to know: The battery is a 12V/230CCA lead-acid type. I'm loading it with a 25W light bulb through a 350W inverter. Load times are currently over an hour. Simply amazing for a battery that couldn't hold a charge a couple of weeks ago.

elias
10-11-2007, 07:57 AM
Well,

I was about to build the Adams motor that I found out there is a great community building and testing SSGs. Actually the Adams motor has not many differences with the SSG except for the timing and the capture of the back EMF.

So I decided to make a few modifications to my motor to make it an SSG, The modifications mainly included the the capture of Back EMF for charging a Battery.

I wanted to see if anyone else has experience using hall effect sensors for their advanced SSGs or so.

My Motor is running pretty fast (1600RPM) at 9.5V and 187mA. and it is charging the Battery with more than 200V spikes, I have also used #19 wire.with a wheel of about 11cm diameter.

Elias

elias
10-11-2007, 01:04 PM
Well,

I am quite understanding now what Bedini meant with the spikes.
I am starting to understand that battery conditioning is a MAJOR factor.
Remember that when they stole Jim Watson's Batteries the machine he was not able to run it anymore. The batteries must be conditioned to absorb this Radiant Energy faster. I have personally started charging my 6 volt battery last night. it seems that it was charging very slowly at first but it is charging faster now.

I have attached my H wave.

God Bless,

Shamus
10-19-2007, 03:39 AM
Well I finally found my roundtoit and finished up my four pole monopole replication (as seen on this page (http://www.icehouse.net/john34/bedinibearden.html), about 1/5 of the way down :)). I'm still trying to figure out how to tune this beastie, especially in light of the recent info I got from Peter Lindemann in the pendulum thread (wow, was that an eye opener!). I've also figured that I need to get a new PSU since the one I have now can only supply 300 mA (!), but that's another story.

At any rate, I can get the thing into resonance with a 2.2K base resistance on all four circuits with a very low current draw (around 1/4A!) but the charging goes to hell (and with Peter's revelation I guess that makes sense). Taking the base resistance down to 330 ohms results in fairly good charging, but the current draw goes up to 1.09A. Also of note is that with the 2.2K base resistance, it's having some slight self-oscillations but the stronger magnets seem to be able to overcome them as it spins up to around 900 RPM. :)

I know now that I'll get better results with a n-filar coil (where n>2) and separate branch circuits, but I just had to build this thing after seeing it on the EFTV2 film. That and the phrase, 'charge the hell out of this battery.' ;) Of course, I'm not getting anywhere near the same results as he did, but that could be due any number of reasons such as lousy bearings, sloppy rotor, different wire, different transistors, the fact that his is really an 8 pole monopole, etc.

Right now I'm feeling a bit discouraged. I feel like I'm going around in circles, not really getting anywhere and unable to find any good answers to the questions that I have. Meditating on the original SG has brought no insight. I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall. :wall:

Kevin
10-20-2007, 08:23 AM
Shamus,

Don't be discouraged!

I am sure you will have an "aha" moment. :suprise:


On another note....I am almost done building my barn. A good portion of it will be dedicated to a work area for starting to build my next version of a Bedini battery charger. :)

Shamus
10-21-2007, 03:41 AM
Thanks Kevin, for that note of encouragement. I've taken pictures of the 4-pole monopole and will post them soon. :) As for my feelings of frustration, part of it has to do with Peter's revelation vis-a-vis the Bedini pedulum. All that work for naught. The other part of it is this: I think I have found at least part of an answer as to why I'm running up against brick walls here (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_SG/message/1311). Personally, I think he's only partially right; I think he's missing a lot of the picture with respect to the mass scale conditioning that most people are subject to here in the U.S. and in most European countries. People who are brought up to be sheep aren't going to make wise choices, you know? I don't know if it's just a blind spot or willful, but it only adds to my frustration to see attitudes like that--and probably explains why good information is so hard to come by. :(

OK, enough sermonizing. I'm sure nobody really cares to hear such things anyway, so I'll shuddap about it already. :p

Right now I've got the 4-pole monopole (I think I'll call it a 4PM ;)) with 2.2K base resistors just to see how long it will take to get the battery up to, say, 15V or so. Just to see what will happen. I'm pretty sure I know what will happen with 330 base resistors (faster charging, higher current draw :p). I'm not sure how John Bedini got 24V showing up on the charging battery side with this machine (I'm still getting only around 12V with spot measurements)--I'm sure that even if I had eight coils like he has on his that I'd still be seeing only 12V on mine. :wall: Ah well, c'est la vie. Ours is only to know in part, I suppose.

I will say that this machine does develop some torque though--probably due to the fact that it fires twice as much as a machine with all its coils aligned with the rotor magnets. :) You could probably develop even more torque with the coils suitably arranged. :thinking:

At any rate, the next machine will definitely be an n-filer coil with multiple recovery circuits. BTW Kevin, I'll be interested in seeing the results of your tests with your "non-superpole-superpole" magnet arrangement. Also, be sure to keep us posted on your progress with the big machine. ;)

Peter Lindemann
10-21-2007, 05:20 AM
Thanks Kevin, for that note of encouragement. I've taken pictures of the 4-pole monopole and will post them soon. :) As for my feelings of frustration, part of it has to do with Peter's revelation vis-a-vis the Bedini pedulum. All that work for naught. The other part of it is this: I think I have found at least part of an answer as to why I'm running up against brick walls here (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_SG/message/1311). Personally, I think he's only partially right; I think he's missing a lot of the picture with respect to the mass scale conditioning that most people are subject to here in the U.S. and in most European countries. People who are brought up to be sheep aren't going to make wise choices, you know? I don't know if it's just a blind spot or willful, but it only adds to my frustration to see attitudes like that--and probably explains why good information is so hard to come by. :(

OK, enough sermonizing. I'm sure nobody really cares to hear such things anyway, so I'll shuddap about it already. :p

Right now I've got the 4-pole monopole (I think I'll call it a 4PM ;)) with 2.2K base resistors just to see how long it will take to get the battery up to, say, 15V or so. Just to see what will happen. I'm pretty sure I know what will happen with 330 base resistors (faster charging, higher current draw :p). I'm not sure how John Bedini got 24V showing up on the charging battery side with this machine (I'm still getting only around 12V with spot measurements)--I'm sure that even if I had eight coils like he has on his that I'd still be seeing only 12V on mine. :wall: Ah well, c'est la vie. Ours is only to know in part, I suppose.

I will say that this machine does develop some torque though--probably due to the fact that it fires twice as much as a machine with all its coils aligned with the rotor magnets. :) You could probably develop even more torque with the coils suitably arranged. :thinking:

At any rate, the next machine will definitely be an n-filer coil with multiple recovery circuits. BTW Kevin, I'll be interested in seeing the results of your tests with your "non-superpole-superpole" magnet arrangement. Also, be sure to keep us posted on your progress with the big machine. ;)

Shamus,

No one thinks you are whining. There is a lot of confusion out there. I worked for Energenx when all of the larger rotating machines were built. All of the big machines, the 12 coil machine with the barrel rotor, the 10 coil machine with the large black rotor, the 6 coil machine with the silver rotor, were 24 volt systems! You will never duplicate what these machines do with a 12 volt system.

These machines can be seen on this page.

20 Bedini (http://www.icehouse.net/john34/bedinibearden.html)

Look at the batteries. The picture of the large round batteries on the floor. They are 1600 amp-hour 2 volt cells, 12 of them wired in series. Look at the copper buss-bars connecting the batteries in series. The systems were connected to the control box with 00 (two aught) wire. This is a super LOW IMPEDANCE system. Total resistance of the whole battery bank was .002 Ohms! Due to these conditions, the Radiant Energy behaves differently.

Every one of these machines was slightly different. Every machine was designed to TEST something specific. The variations being tested were the CONFIDENTIAL property of Energenx and its stockholders. A lot of information has been published, but a lot has not. That's business. Like I said, millions of dollars of investor's money has been spent developing these systems:

Energenx, Inc. (http://www.energenx.com/products.html)

I'm interested to know why you think I am "only partially right". What do you mean by this? I am painfully aware of the how ill-prepared most people are to understand what John says or what Tom Bearden says, or what I say. There is not much we can do about that. The fact is, Energenx is a Public Stock company. Information was only published about systems that have no commercial value. The method of operation of the products on the products page above is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than anything you know about. It doesn't mean what has been published is worthless. It means John LEARNED something from these stepping stones and the designs progressed.

Please don't be upset about all of this. It's business. What you have learned about this is SOLELY due to the fact that John is a generous humanitarian who honestly cares about the world. He was under no obligation to tell anyone anything about what was learned at the expense of his investors!

Keep experimenting with your models. John gave you the place to start. But now you have to learn how to learn. Let the machine tell you it's secrets. They're right in front of you.

Best wishes,

Peter

Ted Ewert
10-21-2007, 12:39 PM
Thanks Kevin, for that note of encouragement. I've taken pictures of the 4-pole monopole and will post them soon. :) As for my feelings of frustration, part of it has to do with Peter's revelation vis-a-vis the Bedini pedulum. All that work for naught. The other part of it is this: I think I have found at least part of an answer as to why I'm running up against brick walls here (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_SG/message/1311). Personally, I think he's only partially right; I think he's missing a lot of the picture with respect to the mass scale conditioning that most people are subject to here in the U.S. and in most European countries. People who are brought up to be sheep aren't going to make wise choices, you know? I don't know if it's just a blind spot or willful, but it only adds to my frustration to see attitudes like that--and probably explains why good information is so hard to come by. :(

OK, enough sermonizing. I'm sure nobody really cares to hear such things anyway, so I'll shuddap about it already. :p

Right now I've got the 4-pole monopole (I think I'll call it a 4PM ;)) with 2.2K base resistors just to see how long it will take to get the battery up to, say, 15V or so. Just to see what will happen. I'm pretty sure I know what will happen with 330 base resistors (faster charging, higher current draw :p). I'm not sure how John Bedini got 24V showing up on the charging battery side with this machine (I'm still getting only around 12V with spot measurements)--I'm sure that even if I had eight coils like he has on his that I'd still be seeing only 12V on mine. :wall: Ah well, c'est la vie. Ours is only to know in part, I suppose.

I will say that this machine does develop some torque though--probably due to the fact that it fires twice as much as a machine with all its coils aligned with the rotor magnets. :) You could probably develop even more torque with the coils suitably arranged. :thinking:

At any rate, the next machine will definitely be an n-filer coil with multiple recovery circuits. BTW Kevin, I'll be interested in seeing the results of your tests with your "non-superpole-superpole" magnet arrangement. Also, be sure to keep us posted on your progress with the big machine. ;)

Hi Shamus,
I feel your pain man! After having high expectations of my first few Bedini machines I was "underwhelmed" with their performance (to put it mildly).
However, I have come to realize that this was not a result of the machine, but rather due to my lack of understanding.
Batteries need a combination of current, pulse rate, pulse amplitude and impedance matching to optimally charge. Radiant energy is developed in a number of places, but is really only part of the total picture.
I don't pretend to be any kind of an expert with these types of machines, but I have pulled my hair out long enough to see how much more I have to learn. The process is frustrating and difficult at times but the payback is in knowledge. Experimenting with different charge rates and voltages will be very revealing in figuring out how your machine runs best.
Multi coil machines will definitely draw more current than the single coil ones. I wouldn't worry about that so much right now. Figure out where it charges best by doing some full charge cycles on some batteries. Put a bunch of batteries in parallel and see how that works.
Each machine is different and will take a while to get to know. Your machine has an optimal setup which will give you much better results than you are seeing now. It just takes some patience and perseverance to find it. :)

Cheers,

Ted

Jetijs
10-21-2007, 01:20 PM
Hi Shamus,
I look forward to see pictures of your setup :)
In the mean time I will post mine.
http://bildez.lv/bildes/jetijs/strunti2/orig/1192989707.jpg
This is a two trifilar coil setup where one strand of one coil is used to trigger the transistors and other five strands are to power the whole thing. Each strand has its own transistor. Those things on my coils are only some lead weights to prevent vibration of the coil. Here's the other side of my circuit:
http://bildez.lv/bildes/jetijs/strunti2/orig/1192989708.jpg
You can see that the upper middle transistor area has a hole burned in the plate. The hole is between the Neon bulb terminals. I had some problems like this before. If you solder the two neon bulb leads close together, the high voltage BEMF sipke can arc across these leads and provide a short to the battery. Therefore make sure that your neon leads are as far appart as possible. If you look close, you can see, that I scraped away those little copper rings between other neon leads. Actually I burned that transistor when I was powering my SSG with a variac and attached ground wire and diode to the + terminal on the charging battery. You can read about this on the Radiant energy results topic :)
However, keep up your good work and do not give up. I also had many moments when I thought that maybe this is not meant for me to understand :)
:thumbsup: :cheers:

ren
10-31-2007, 06:03 AM
jetijs, I have been having trouble hooking up more than one transistor to a single trigger. I think from your picture it looks like all transistor emitter terminals are linked together. Do bases simply have appropriate resistors and are they all linked together? I have found some schematics for wiring up multiple transistors and havent been able to follow them properly. Im more of a visual learner...

Jetijs
10-31-2007, 05:52 PM
Ren,
all my transistor bases have their own 100 Ohm 2w resistor and are connected to the 1k pot. The resistors are on the other side of the plate. All the emitters are connected together and to the "-" terminal of the primary battery. I attached a circuit diagram:

Jan H
10-31-2007, 08:23 PM
i'd like to add something to the "dumping back into the net" idea.
I think it will be quite tricky and not worth the effort.
for starters you will still have to use batteries, because it's the only way you are going to capture the radiant. Then you will have to make it 110v (i'm not sure what US standards are, here in europe its 230v) Anyway, you will also need electronics to sync the sinewave you make, to the sinewave the net produces. otherwise you will "pollute" the net.
Off the shelf electronics to do this exist, but as i recall they are quite expensive. You can probably make one yourself, but i don't think it will be easy. And i also wonder how much energy these things lose as heat.
If you'd like to pay less to the energy company it might be easier to run an electric "group" in your house off it. But that's already talking a few kilowatts.

ren
10-31-2007, 08:42 PM
thanks Jet, I'll pick up some transistors and have a stab at it. Did you find a noticeable difference as opposed to all coils to one transistor?

Jetijs
10-31-2007, 10:42 PM
Yes ren,
There was a difference. I could get more RPM's if I had a transistor for each strand or the coil instead of only one transistor for all the coils in parallel. I do not know why this is so. Of course there is an improvement in RPM also in one transistor/parallel coil setup, but not as big.

ren
11-01-2007, 11:23 PM
heres a pic of recent progress. Bedini circuit on three bifilar coils, one trigger three power. Adjustable rpm and amp draw via 1k pot. Two windings not being currently used. Rotor is hard drive 10mm cube neos n/s/n/s/n/s/n/s. Pick up coil of same size as drive coils gets over 15 volts while maintains decent speed.

video here YouTube - pulse motor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0I2HtTu2Cs)

adam ant
11-02-2007, 03:28 AM
what confuses me is the hook up difference between a transistor with only 3 connections, verses a solid state relay that has 4. what am i missing?

Sephiroth
11-06-2007, 08:45 PM
Hi guys,

i've been playing with a bedini motor for about 4 months now but now I'm having trouble adding a second coil to the curcuit... for some reason I can't find any schematic for it online...

I had it running fine with a second power coil hooked in series with the original bifilar coil and that worked fine but now i've made a second bedini curcuit + coil that I'm trying to hook up but when both are connected it seems to short out the batteries... I must be missing something...

can anyone help?

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/introvertebrate)

Jetijs
11-06-2007, 08:55 PM
Sephiroth,
look some posts above, i posted a circuit for multiple (in that case three) coils on SSG. Just make sure that your other power coil is aligned 180 or 90 degree apart from the primary coil if you are using 4,6,8,12... ect. magnets. So that when one magnet is on top dead center of primary coil, there must also be a magnet on the top dead center of your slave coil.

Sephiroth
11-06-2007, 09:07 PM
ah! sorry, I missed that!

so only one trigger coil... hmmm

so you cant hook two seperate bifilar coils and bedini curcuits to the same batteries?

I say that as a question, though it looks like the sparks flying off my batteries have already answered it!

I'll try your schematic and just hook the the trigger and power coil in parrelel on the second spool... that should work shouldn't it? ill soon find out!

Cheers!

Jetijs
11-06-2007, 09:22 PM
I think so. Basically each power coil needs to have its own transistor. But all the transistors are triggered from the one trigger coil. You will need a higher wattage pot in order to use more than 2 transistors.

Aaron
11-07-2007, 07:58 AM
Here is the original vid
YouTube - John Bedini SG - 5000rpm draws 1amp, 10,000rpm draws 200ma (http://youtube.com/watch?v=a3jH1bQWIRY)

I just posted a vid of closeups of this energizer:
YouTube - Bedini Tape Motor SG - (http://youtube.com/watch?v=mWEjN9dqz4U)

ren
11-08-2007, 12:18 AM
awesome aaron. Thanks for your second vid. I was wondering if the coils were rewound? And do they have cores? I have made something similar using a hard drive platter and 3 bifilar coils, without cores.

Aaron
11-08-2007, 03:14 AM
Hi Ren,

I left everything exactly the way the tape motor came. For cores, I'm not sure...I never opened it. I'm uploading a new youtube video showing this energizer charging a cap bank and discharging to a battery using the negative side. When it is up, I'll post a link in the thread on capacitive discharges.

Jan H
11-08-2007, 07:08 PM
i finally put together my Bedini sg, it's a little bodgy compared to other reproductions, but its running!

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/4571/sgrunningab5.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4944/circuitpv0.jpg
This is the circuit, i basically kept the same layout as the schematic, so i wouldnt screw up.
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/4803/coille0.jpg

It turns out i did screw up, i glued on the magnets backwards, so lets call this a southpole motor :)

Runs pretty nice, but its not really taking off yet, to what some people refer to as self resonance. I think rpm is around 1000rpm, (dont have tachometer) I know there is a couple of things not optimal on this system.
-The magnets are too strong
-there should be more magnets on there
-The coil only has 410windings, spool wasnt longer.
-core material is poor

I'm still playing with the resistor for the trigger winding. it's currently running with a 680 ohm resistor, but that won't get it started. I start it with a whopping 20 ohm!

im still in the process of measuring things but what i have measured:
Current draw is 70mA at 10Volts
And im now using two identical batteries to charge eachother, it seems to be working but really slow.

Aaron
11-08-2007, 10:57 PM
Very cool! Looks good to me. If you get results that is what counts.
Ceramic mags work fine for this and you'll get better efficiency. It will
run a little awkward with the south there in this particular configuration.

Aaron
11-08-2007, 10:59 PM
Here is a schematic for the tape wheel motor.

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/tapesg.gif

The leads on the tape motor were already sticking out on really good pins.
For a muffin fan motor for example, you'd have to open it and free up the leads on each coil and route them out.

Schematic shows example of how to hook up either a battery on output or a cap...please don't confuse this that
I'm charging a battery one one output and a cap on the other.

This runs only clockwise as the induced current to trigger comes from the left side, which is connected to the base.

The bulb and pot I have are between the trigger wire and the resistor.

Aaron
11-08-2007, 11:12 PM
Any comments on this vid?
YouTube - bedini self charging motor circuit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU_-1Q0QGwQ)

CaptainScat
11-09-2007, 02:27 AM
nice CGI skills ;)

Aaron
11-09-2007, 02:33 AM
Yeah, it is from Skeptic33 who posted some comments on my vid here:
YouTube - Back EMF vs Collapsed Spikes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_rvJQb2SDY)

Not sure what to make of it. The diagram is a little hard to read...the one that pops up in the vid towards the end.

LutherG
11-09-2007, 04:54 PM
Hi Aaron,

Thanks for the schematic - very nice. Would it be permissible to take a resistance reading across one of the power coils and one of the trigger coils sometime since the ends of the coils are out in the open? It would be very interesting to see what they measure... especially for those of us who would like to try to replicate this version... I love that jet sound when it ramps up on 24 volts! ha!

thanks and best regards to all,

Luther

PS: Here is my little SG on youtube:

YouTube - Bedini Monopole Energizer (aka: SSG Energizer) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFDREWe4niE)

Aaron
11-09-2007, 08:07 PM
Hi Luther,

3.4 ohms per coil.

There are connections to the coil so that reading is accurate unless backwards through the circuit there is a connection.

ren
11-09-2007, 09:27 PM
I would love to get a hold of one of these tape motors. I have been looking around, my Dad was a film maker before he passed away and Im hoping to get in touch with some of his work mates to see if they have any old reel to reel motors lying on the scrap heap.

Aaron could you hazard a guess to the size or length of coils inside? Probably not without pulling apart this little gem. I am really interested to know if it does have cores or not. I got my rotor going very fast without cores, I am not sure if they are a necessity for the radiant effect however....

Would be good to see if anyone has dismantled one of these spools as I am unsure of the magnet configuration too. The little button fan I pulled apart had four coils but only one magnet strip going 360 degrees around.

Also Aaron, do your two trigger coils interconnect? Like Ricks diagram from the monopole list (mods remove if inappropriate).

Aaron
11-10-2007, 04:06 AM
Hi,

I tried unscrewing the nuts from the top center screw but the screw turns with it. There are 2 screws underneath the rotor and I'm not sure I can even do this without having to unmount it from the base so I'm not going to do that.

If I was going to redo one of these motor styles, I would actually just modify a muffin fan so at least you get work from the rotor like blown air.

It would be such a shame to tear apart a good reel to reel to get these motors...especially if they're from the 1970's because they're such good quality players.

I just found some pics of some reel to reel motors and they look different from the one I have. I'm not 100% sure it came from a reel to reel. I thought it did.

3191D or 3191O or 31910 is a number printed on top. The 9 'could' be an 8. I couldn't find reference to it online.

ren
11-10-2007, 04:18 AM
Ok.

I wasnt going to dismantle a working unit, I would only scavenge the motors if it was on the tip. Thanks for info Aaron, I'll search around. Or maybe I'll just wind some coils with the same ohms.

Edit:
I just found a sight online that sells old vintage parts and spares for reel to reels.

Oak Tree Vintage has used home audio stereo gear, antique microphones cables and connectors 8mm 16mm movie film projectors vintage guitars amplifiers amps guitar effects old transistor tube radios reproduction jukeboxes. Reel Reels turntables speaker (http://www.oaktreevintage.com/)

gabriolaman
11-10-2007, 09:39 AM
well i made what i call the poor mans sg, the coil is smaller has no trigger coil ( i didnt have lots of enamel wire )i made my own reed switch for a trigger that uses juice from the battery to fire the transistor

i dont even know if its the real thing i plan to get proper parts just havnt been able to yet but was going crazy wanting to make one so i made this im new here and just learning what i can

i dunno if the battery is charging from radiant energy or the recycled collapsing magnetic feild from the coil i only did a few cycles so ile have to keep going to see what happens

videos not to great but you can see the monster

YouTube - poor mans sg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WzpmDiEIbg)

Jan H
11-10-2007, 01:26 PM
i've got some questions regarding the SG. Im currently trying to improve my current design. But i need to know a bit more about winding coils.

How do you actually wind it? lets say i'v got my twisted wire, and i've got my spool. I'ts really hard to go from left to right in one go, When i try stacking up the wire it wants to fall off to the side. And as far as i know i cant go back and forth winding it, because that will not result in a north and south pole. Is it possible to wind a thin layer from left to right, then go straight back and repeat the process?

also i noted something very weird. When i connect a neon bulb to the charging output, only one of the filaments in the bulb lights up, is that normal?

if the charge output lights up a neon bulb, is that proof of the motor being in sync? I personally think rpm has to go way up?

gabriolaman
11-10-2007, 05:51 PM
cant you wind the coil any way as long s its facing north towards the magnets?

ren
11-10-2007, 09:49 PM
In regards to coil winding guys.

For basic setups the winding isnt too important. Put your spool onto a cordless drill, hold your other spool full of wire and turn sewing machine style:cheers:

If you want a beautiful, neat coil you can make a little hand crank and take your time. Some double sided tape can help you get each layer neat. Wind (take note of clockwise or anti clock as this will determine your north and south) up the coil and then back down. You can insulate with masking/electrical tape to help keep it tight then repeat. Don Addist has a small pic tutorial here Winding Coils (http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/howto/windingcoils.htm)

YOu can wind all the way up and then string it down (directional winding i think its called?) But I cant see any real benefit from this. Someone prove me wrong if there is.

Jan H
11-11-2007, 04:14 PM
hello everyone,
today i rewound my SG coil to get about 600-700 windings on there. And used an AM antenna ferrite core to see what would happen.
SG charges A LOT better, but current draw has gone up from 70mA to 200mA I did add a potmeter to the trigger resistance to get it down, but that's as low as i can go.

When i attach a neon bulb to charge output it nearly blows the bulb.
But i also noted a weird side effect, when the rotor isn't turning the coil makes a high lets say 3khz buzzing noise, when i then change the resistance on the potmeter the frequency of the noise changes.
This didn't happen with my first coil.

any idea's?

gabriolaman
11-11-2007, 04:51 PM
transistor may be damaged?

Jetijs
11-11-2007, 04:56 PM
The buzzing sound is normal, that is because at higher base resistance the coil and the transistor starts to self oscilate. I can do this with my SSG if I increase the base resistance to about 900 Ohms, then there is that high pitch sound, the wheel is not turning but the charging battery still charges up while the primary battery discharges. You can run your setup also this way, but that is not as efficient as when the wheel is turning :)

Jan H
11-11-2007, 08:23 PM
ah ok thanks, good to know.

as i was playing with my sg i accidently kicked my output wire off, resulting in a fried transistor :( so put a new one in with a neon bulb this time, Then what, a short in my coil. Trigger and power wire touching eachother :wall:
well fine fixed that. Connected everything up, started it woohoo! went into self resonance with the bulb lighting up, accidently touched the wrong wire. DAMN! that hurts ive had some nasty shocks before, but nothing like this one! my chest still hurts.

so not having my day today.
now its running again, trying to revive a 50amphr car battery.

gabriolaman
11-13-2007, 07:27 AM
i also have the buzzing sound when my sg is not spinning if i disconnect the charge battery it gets louder !? is it really normal?

Aaron
11-13-2007, 06:13 PM
When disconnecting the charge battery on the output, it is like having a larger diameter exhaust allowing the motor to turn over faster and with more ease. There is less back pressure in the circuit.

Reduce the resistance at the base to get rid of the oscillation. You don't want this effect if you're using a rotor. Otherwise, you can tune the oscillator if you want it to oscillate and don't want to use the rotor.

gabriolaman
11-14-2007, 02:59 AM
well i tried reducing it and even tried it with no resistor could the buzzing be due to a short in the coil?

gabriolaman
11-24-2007, 08:04 PM
i have found with a single strand tightly wound slave coil i get higher voltage collapsing spikes would this be a desired effect meaning a better voltage potential to a quire my radiant energy??

MGC
11-25-2007, 01:31 AM
Hello to the group,

My name is Mike, I started researching these materials very recently, glued to the computer, reading and watching experiments from so many of you for the better part of the last two months. :notworthy: I feel like I just woke up.

Am I understanding these behavioral concepts right ?

The collapse of the pulse triggers a higher voltage potential in the exciter coil. This potential is then opened against a dense receiver of charges (the battery).

The charges rush into this potential from everywhere it can, from the wires, from the battery, from the air, from the ground.

The polarization of the battery's relatively large reaction cross section draws much of the charges into this space. The effect can also be seen outside of the battery as well, acting like a gas, drawing charges into it.


If this is correct, what sort of battery would be the most efficient at receiving negative energy, of being a conduit for these charges?


This question may be off-topic but is anyone working in this area or interested in it?

gabriolaman
11-25-2007, 02:09 AM
well i really wanted to get my second coil hooked back up so took apart an old power supplies i had and found two npn transistors that seemed to be compatible wired them up in my energizer and im getting double the charge i was before and only using 90 ma i can not understand but im using 2 thirds the power i was when i had 1 coil hooked up now i got 2 hooked up:D
the transistors im using are here 2SC2625-T3P-T pdf, 2SC2625-T3P-T description, 2SC2625-T3P-T datasheets, 2SC2625-T3P-T view ::: ALLDATASHEET ::: (http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/173206/UTC/2SC2625-T3P-T.html)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b25/-emc-/100_7721.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b25/-emc-/100_7722.jpg

wizzle
11-25-2007, 10:56 AM
Hey All!
I'm Rod from Ohio. (Please don't hold that against me!)
So far I've built 2 working SGs, one mini and one full sized. The full sized is currently being upgraded with a new rotor & more magnets.

Anyway...
If you all don't mind, I'd like to ask a question. Might be a dumb one, but I just can't seem to figure it out.

First the setup..
Capspan rotor with 8 double stacked neos, 150 ft. of 22 & 26 wire with r60 welding rod core. A 1K ohm (986 actual) resistor on the trigger. The 1 ohm test passed with .16 volts and no NE light up.
Primary bat is a converted 200 watt PSU putting out 12.46 volts.
Charging battery is a worn out 12 volt cordless drill pack showing 3.688 volts.

K...now the good stuff!
Input from PSU....75ma
Output to battery....105ma!
(I've charged up at least a dozen batteries and have never had these numbers)
About an hour or so later....
Charging battery 5.91 volts
Input 87 ma
Output 87 ma?

I load the battery down to 3.60 volts (after an hour of resting) and start charging it again. This time using a 630 CCA 12 volt starting battery on the back end.
Input 80 ma
Output 110 ma.

So the questions is...
What is it about this old drill battery that causes the SG to be in over unity at low voltage?

Thanks in advance!
The cornfused noob!

Sephiroth
11-25-2007, 11:49 AM
Hi guys,

Posted a couple of vids on youtube about the bedini motor for beginners.

YouTube - How to Build a Bedini Motor ... Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJySgeSpJpQ)

YouTube - How to Build a Bedini Motor ... Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOGjLDU2lX8)

If you notice any absolutly horrible errors could you let me know and I'll edit the vids before too many people see them!

Cheers!

edit: oh yeah, and some of the images can be found here:
How to Build a Bedini Motor (http://www.peterbug.plus.com/)

mrbreau
11-25-2007, 03:23 PM
Since I've been struggling with the Bedini SG for a while and just gathering the required components it was will real pleasure that I viewed your videos to at last learn about how it all goes together! :notworthy: :cheers:

I guess I'm just too dumb to figure out how it is done from all the other recipes.

Warren
..

Sephiroth
11-25-2007, 04:06 PM
Glad you liked it :thumbsup:

for my first circuit i built it exactly like the schematic so there were wires everywhere but little by little eliminated them all and ended up with that layout.

wizzle
11-25-2007, 05:20 PM
Sephiroth, that was a top notch "how to" vids! :thumbsup:
The numbered wiring was a VERY nice touch. Keep em coming!:)

gabriolaman
11-26-2007, 05:53 PM
i came across this neat bedini energizer YouTube - Micro_SG - fastest, lowest power SG on the planet! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxvtth5DO8A&feature=related)

theremart
11-30-2007, 01:11 AM
Results from testing cores


-- Empty core

Rotation 790 RPM
Output voltage to to charging battery: 1.30 V

-- Solid Iron rod

Rotation 1123 RPM
Output voltage to to charging battery: 2.3 V

-- Iron filings mixed with glue

Rotation 825 RPM
Output voltage to to charging battery: 1.25 V

-- Welding Rods

Rotation 1139 RPM
Output voltage to to charging battery: 2.97 V


YouTube - Testing Bedini SSG with different core material 12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3XjBXIgmxY)

YouTube - Final look at the core testing with the Bendini SSG 14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn9BXz_eLto)

YouTube - More looking at the SSG Core testing various types 13 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idAsJPst3SU)

voodoo_chicken
12-04-2007, 01:07 PM
Hi all,

I have just joined and was wondering if anyone has Rick's schematic for the brushless fan setup with capacitive discharge on the negative side? Aaron, interesting youtube video :thumbsup:

Thanks.

Aaron
12-04-2007, 05:50 PM
Thanks!

You can click on the thumbnail pic in this post in this same thread:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/364-bedini-sg.html#post12199

I believe that is the fan diagram.

voodoo_chicken
12-05-2007, 01:45 AM
Hi Aaron,

there are 4 different thumbnail in your post, not sure what i should be clicking on :o .. i clicked on all of them but could not find what i was looking for. Any chance of a direct link?

Thanks

Aaron
12-05-2007, 03:30 AM
Hi, this is the direct link I provided that goes to the post with 1 thumbnail:
Bedini SG (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/364-bedini-sg.html#post12199)

voodoo_chicken
12-05-2007, 12:22 PM
Hi Aaron,

Thanks for your patience. I found the thumbnail but i already have this. I was looking for the capacitor discharge setup that uses an SCR/NEON or SCR/555.

Aaron
12-05-2007, 06:29 PM
Hi,

Not sure about Rick's schematic.

Maybe this will help...this is what I did with an oscillator:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/366-bedini-solid-state-oscillators.html#post4023

You can check out my youtube vid on basically the same circuit with an SSG:
YouTube - Bedini Negative Energy SG capacitor discharge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPR2GPfBQ-s)

and more details on this SSG:
YouTube - Bedini Tape Motor SG - (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWEjN9dqz4U)

If you do find Rick's schematic on this, it would be great if you can post details in the cap discharger thread:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/367-bedini-capacitive-discharge-chargers.html

gabriolaman
12-08-2007, 05:00 AM
well i made a new coil waiting on my transistors to see what this puppy can do
its 3"long the core diameter is 3/4" and its windings are 1 5/8" thick, its around 450 windings 4-24 awg power and 1-26 awg trigger

after i made it i thought it seemed too long now im wondering how the shape effects the system so my next coil is gonna be a bit shorter and fatter i got the same amount of wire left that i used in this one so why not the ****ty part is it took me like the hole day to make :O my neck is soar from looking down for so long


http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b25/-emc-/100_7738.jpg

Sephiroth
12-08-2007, 10:46 PM
Ren,
all my transistor bases have their own 100 Ohm 2w resistor and are connected to the 1k pot. The resistors are on the other side of the plate. All the emitters are connected together and to the "-" terminal of the primary battery. I attached a circuit diagram:

I just noticed that you don't have the D1 diode marked in the schematic??? I was just wondering cos I have got my dual coil working fine now but have included a 1N4001 per transistor...

I can't find any where that says what this diode is for but am i right in guessing that when the power coil fires, its magnetic field induces a current in the trigger coil in the opposite direction to the current induced by the magnets and thus quickly turns off the transistor as soon as it opens which creates the sharp pulsing? So this diode allows the "backwards current" to flow freely while forcing the induced current from the rotor into the transistor.

If that is the case then only one of these diodes should be needed even if you are using multiple trasistors. Is there and advantage or disadvantage of having more than one diode?

and while on the subject of diodes... the 1N4007. I noticed in one of bedini's diagrams that he had a "diode cluster" (about 3 i think) going to the positive of the charging batteries from each transistor. Is this to reduce the impedance of the radient? Has anyone else used more than 1 diode coming from the collector?

and somebody mentioned in another thread about using a ground wire connected through a diode to the positive of the main battery. Cant remember which thread it was. I don't have the luxury of a garden (living in the penthouse! lol) so I have connected an 18" radio antenna to the postive in the same fashion and it pulls .024V from the air into the battery... Tried a 4 foot antenna as well but the voltage was the same so just using the smaller one. Do you know how many volts were coming from your ground wire?

A ground wire seems to make sense since , as bedini found out through his pendulum, radient energy alone can't keep batteries charged so a ground wire could possibly feed the batteries the extra electrons. Again this is all guess work!!! Anybody have some insight on this?

ren
12-09-2007, 12:58 AM
voodoo, I too am searching for ricks schematic to apply to a fan I have already modified. I need to grasp the basics of the scr and how it wires up correctly. I emailed him and despite being very busy he answered promptly. He said that the schematic would come with all the kits he sold, and that it was just another way to wire it up. He told me to go ahead and just do the 555 timer as it is just as if not more efficient.

So if anyone has a better understanding of the scr and its function I would be greatful, otherwise I will probably just move on and figure out a mechanical switching like Aarons with the copper tabs or step up and try and replicate the 555 timer.

gabriolaman
12-09-2007, 02:00 AM
I just noticed that you don't have the D1 diode marked in the schematic??? I was just wondering cos I have got my dual coil working fine now but have included a 1N4001 per transistor...

I can't find any where that says what this diode is for but am i right in guessing that when the power coil fires, its magnetic field induces a current in the trigger coil in the opposite direction to the current induced by the magnets and thus quickly turns off the transistor as soon as it opens which creates the sharp pulsing? So this diode allows the "backwards current" to flow freely while forcing the induced current from the rotor into the transistor.

im not positive about the full function of that diode but i did see a schematic with it being called a flyback diode to stop current from damaging the transistor

heres wiki Flyback diode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_diode)

Sephiroth
12-09-2007, 02:27 AM
cheers! that sounds like what it is doing!

though the motor can produce multiple pulses per magnet which doesn't really make sense so I thought there must be something turning the transistor off to produce pulses instead of one large pulse.

then i thought about a transformer... when a magnetic field is formed in one coil a current is created in the other coil in the opposite diretion (assumung they are both wrapped clockwise or anticlockwise... lens law or something, lol :D ) so i wonder if this is this is what rapidly turns off the transistor and causing the current to pulse rapidly instead of gently like a sine wave and allowing multiple pulses per magnet.

wizzle
12-09-2007, 03:20 AM
Something you might find interesting, at least I did.
With your wheel shut down, hook up an "analog" ohm meter to the coil, power or trigger, check the ohms while the coil is "between" magnets.
Now spin the wheel by hand and watch the meter.

If you have a spare magnet, try passing the South pole over the coil.

Sephiroth
12-12-2007, 09:31 PM
*Warning! Frustration being vented!*

i am getting really p'd off now! I set up my dual coil motor about a week or two ago (3 transistor circuit) and have rebuilt it three time now because every time i turn it OFF all the transistors mysteriously (and subtly) fry! :wall: I don't get it. It runs great for hours with no heat in the circuit but then as soon as i swap the batteries for the first time (always disconnecting the primary battery first) it stops working! After investigation i find all three of the transistors are dead! The neons are hooked up and i have never had any problems like this before. It only began happening once I started using a higher guage wire to connect the batteries and balanced the circuit though i don't see why that would do cause it to fry from being turned off.

well, now there are no more 2n3055 transistors within 50 miles of here so have to buy them online. Hopefully theyll be here before the weekend!

http://www.aboutmrsite.com/mark5.jpg

sniff sniff... my poor baby...

ren
12-12-2007, 10:09 PM
That does suck!. Can I recommend that when you get your new transistors get a pcb style board with the holes all punched in it. mount your transistors on it and clean up your circuit as much as possible, keeping connections as far away from each other as possible. Perhaps there is a short somewhere and this makes things easier to track down. Nice setup otherwise, bet that rotor gets up to speed!

Hang in there, I know how you feel, I have a pile of toasted components here too:) Consider moving up to the mjl21194 transistors as well, or though you'll be crying harder if you fry them at 5-10 bucks a pop. If your local store doesnt have any more 2n3055s there are other similar subistutes.

Sephiroth
12-12-2007, 10:21 PM
good plan! will try that next time... fingers crossed it will survive long enough to at least cycle the batteries!:D

theremart
12-13-2007, 03:05 AM
good plan! will try that next time... fingers crossed it will survive long enough to at least cycle the batteries!:D

I have a friend that has recommended adding 4 zener diodes in line of the charging battery this has protected the transistors from much harm.

1N4742A ZENER DIODE 12 VOLTS 1 WATT 5% (100 pcs) - (eBay item 130106167087 end time Dec-02-07 07:57:51 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:11&Item=130106167087)

I weep with you man :wall: :wall: I HATE resoldering those transistors in.

Mart

theremart
12-13-2007, 03:20 AM
Well, I wanted to see if I could bring back from the dead some deep cell 12V batteries. I found I was just killing myself trying to bring Nicads back to life. Here are the results of attempting to bring two batteries ( Named Spark and Neon ) back to life.

Tested with inverter with 13W light bulb is pulling .58 Amps



Battery Profile Crown Part Volts Amps Reseve Capacity
24 24DC36 12 85 140*


Time Battery Name Number of minutes with 13W Battery

Charge

7:40 AM 11/28/2007 Spark 3 min
7:45 AM 11/28/2007 Neon 1 min

Charge

2:12 PM 11/28/2007 Spark 3 min
2:05 PM 11/28/2007 Neon 6 min

Charge

8:45 AM 11/29/2007 Spark 7.5 min
8:16 AM 11/29/2007 Neon 14 min


Charge

5:23 PM 11/29/2007 Spark 5 min
5:34 PM 11/29/2007 Neon 12 min


Charge

8:30 AM 11/30/2007 Spark 9 min
8:20 AM 11/30/2007 Neon 20 min

Charge * note went to ceramic magnets only. Switched over to full
12V powersupply for Neon.

Charge

8:58 AM 12/1/2007 Spark 12 min
9:28 AM 12/1/2007 Neon 26 min

Let the batteries rest a day.

Charge

6:28 PM 12/4/2007 Spark Unable to run inverter charge
was at 10.30
5:40 PM 12/4/2007 Neon 45 min

Charge

6:31 PM 12/5/2007 Spark Unable to run inverter charge
was at 10.30 Changed PWR supply
5:43 PM 12/5/2007 Neon 70 min

Charge

12:50 PM 12/6/2007 Spark 2 min
2:33 PM 12/6/2007 Neon 67 min

Charge

1:00 PM 12/8/2007 Spark 2 min
2:33 PM 12/6/2007 Neon 40 ?+ timer stopped

Charge ( taking Spark back bad cell ( black merk in cell )

9:13 PM 12/10/2007 Neon 12.36V 61 min

Charge

5:37 PM 12/12/2007 Neon 12.55V 2 hours 19 min

I was VERY happy tonight to see that Neon lasted so long. What surprizes me is the acid in the cells in Neon still test bad? :suprise: But I guess I still have a long way to go before the sulfate on the cells returns back, I understand about 30 to forty recharges.

So, I am a believer that this will work to recharge batteries from the dead, I am getting 3 more cells, and hope to move on to golf cart batteries next.

Does anyone have a schematic for using more than one coil, or transistor? now have 4 ssgs, and I want to move up to the best way of charging these, and open to ideas. peace :fingerdance:

splocal
12-14-2007, 07:06 AM
Does anyone have a schematic for using more than one coil, or transistor? now have 4 ssgs, and I want to move up to the best way of charging these, and open to ideas. peace :fingerdance:[/QUOTE]

I haven't tested this schematic myself yet but looks like a good one, so here it is a multi coil multi transistor schematic.:cheers:

Sephiroth
12-14-2007, 07:42 AM
ah! so you do use a 1n4001 per transistor! luckily thats what i've been doing. lol cheers!

ren
12-14-2007, 08:15 AM
splocal, look back at page two of this thread. Jetijs helped me out with this earlier. He drew a great diagram for us. Basically wire a second power winding/coil up to a second transistor exactly the same way as the original schematic. When it comes to the the triggering you use the original trigger winding to trigger the base of this transistor. Use the same resistance on each base and vary your 1k pot. If its a separate coil, it needs to be inline with a magnet when your master coils fires.

theremart
12-14-2007, 11:37 AM
Does anyone have a schematic for using more than one coil, or transistor? now have 4 ssgs, and I want to move up to the best way of charging these, and open to ideas. peace :fingerdance:

I haven't tested this schematic myself yet but looks like a good one, so here it is a multi coil multi transistor schematic.:cheers:[/QUOTE]

ahhh at last! appears that I can just hook up my two SSG together with this schematic!

THANKS YOU ME HERO :thumbsup: :thanks:

splocal
12-14-2007, 07:30 PM
splocal, look back at page two of this thread. Jetijs helped me out with this earlier. He drew a great diagram for us. Basically wire a second power winding/coil up to a second transistor exactly the same way as the original schematic. When it comes to the the triggering you use the original trigger winding to trigger the base of this transistor. Use the same resistance on each base and vary your 1k pot. If its a separate coil, it needs to be inline with a magnet when your master coils fires.

Thanx Ren! I haven't got to winding my second coil yet, but was planning on it soon, 3 kids and a wife keep me mighty busy! But just to make sure I understand, the same trigger for the master coil also triggers the slave coils. The coils have to be in line with the magnets which also need to be spaced evenly around the rotor. so When the coils fire they are both pushing a magnet away at the same time:thinking:
Ok for my other question, when my coil begins to self oscillate it makes that high pitch whining noise. Now I know this is normal but what Iam curious about is why does it stop when I hook up a battery on the back end ( a charge batt):thinking: I have a 680ohm resistor between the trigger wire and the base, maybe thats to much for my setup. Originally I had a 1K pot and when turned all the way up the noise got louder and would eventually stop the rotor. I also have only 435 turns on my coil which is kinda low I would like to get 800 turns, im not sure how that would affect the self oscillations though. any tips would be appreciated! :thanks:

ren
12-15-2007, 01:05 AM
Aaron explains the changes a bit like putting a larger, high flow exhaust on a car. Changing pressure on the back end gives a source for our load to transfer to. That is how I see it anyway.

When you do your resistors wire the master transistor up and make sure it is firing. Then place the same fixed value resistor off to each slave transistor from the pot. In effect, you branch off after the pot in your circuit, making sure that the path to each base on all transistors goes through the same resistance.

For example, 100 ohms to each base and a 1k pot to tune. You might want put a higher resistance up when you figure out the sweet spot, Lets say 400 ohms and a smaller pot. (Just examples.) With a coil of your size I would try a smaller fixed value and have your tuneability set for a lower ohm band. Maybe try a 10 ohm 1 watt resistor and a smaller pot? You might get more speed this way so make sure your wheel is up to scratch.

If all coils are firing off the same trigger signal they will all be firing as a magnet passes over the master coil. If your wind is trifiliar or more then you wont have to worry, but if the slave winding is on another coil physically removed then it will fire in unison, hence alignment with a magnet at the same time is necessary.

Jetijs
12-15-2007, 01:11 AM
Also I would suggest you to get a high wattage 1k wire wound pot for these experiments, because if you use an 1/4w pot and only one transistor, that will be fine, but if you add another transistor to the circuit, there will be twice the current flowing through the pot and a small one could fry. I fried several pots with only a two transistor circuit. Now I have a 20W wire wound pot and am using that on a six transistor setup with no problems at all :)
Thanks,
Jetijs

theremart
12-15-2007, 02:44 AM
Also I would suggest you to get a high wattage 1k wire wound pot for these experiments, because if you use an 1/4w pot and only one transistor, that will be fine, but if you add another transistor to the circuit, there will be twice the current flowing through the pot and a small one could fry. I fried several pots with only a two transistor circuit. Now I have a 20W wire wound pot and am using that on a six transistor setup with no problems at all :)
Thanks,
Jetijs

I am all ears where can i find one on the net? I had some fun i connected my usb servo to the pot an adjusted it with that :) amazing the variations you can do with this.:v-peace:

Jetijs
12-15-2007, 11:18 AM
I bought my pots on ebay from this guy:
eBay UK Shop - SAN FRANCISCO SURPLUS: Resistors, Power, Resistors, Variable, Meters (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/SAN-FRANCISCO-SURPLUS)

Jetijs
12-15-2007, 02:29 PM
OOPS :o
I must apologize for the SSG multi coil circuit I posted earlier, I forgot to add diodes to the transistor bases in that circuit. Here is how it should look:
http://www.emuprim.lv/bildez/images/viskautkas_labs/visadi_strunti_1/ssg5.JPG

gabriolaman
12-15-2007, 08:52 PM
my god tunning multi strand coils is a night mare

i cant get it to work gonna take it apart and start from scratch

when ever i hook up the second power strand\transistor the neon on the first one stops lighting up witch leads me to believe it stops spiking witch is no good any one know whats up?

Jetijs
12-15-2007, 08:54 PM
The neon should never light up, if it does, then there is something wrong with your circuit, for example, the outpu/charging battery is not connected

gabriolaman
12-15-2007, 09:53 PM
WELL I was testing the circuit to see if there was high voltage going to the output by unhooking the charge batt now i have now re done the circuit on a bread board and it works fine i think there must have been a problem in the original one i wired up XD

Sephiroth
12-16-2007, 05:35 PM
this might be stupid but I was thinking of a way to get the motor to self run and came up with the attached schematic ...

anybody tried something like this? Havent tested it yet but might give it a go.

Sephiroth
12-16-2007, 05:41 PM
damn... i just spotted a major flaw! back to the drawing board!

Sephiroth
12-16-2007, 05:46 PM
second try :D

282

theremart
12-16-2007, 10:26 PM
[QUOTE=Sephiroth;13947]second try :D

Hi,

I have been reading that John B. suggests that it is not a good idea to switch the charging battery and the primary battery directly, but to either use a capacitor or an inverter because of how the radiant energy works in the circuit. ( I must say this puzzels me as I have seen people swapping the batteries in the circuit all the time )


I also was thinking of making this circuit run continually and automatically. I am beggining to think the best way is to use capacitors to invert the radiant energy back to the batteries. I believe there would be less loss using this method as opposed to having an inverter. This would be doing it the "accepted way"

My idea is to have the circuit running on a timer at X number of hours it would switch batteries. I wish to build like 4 of these to run continually, the gain for me would be either excess charged batteries, or to put the wheel on a wind mill generator to have a continually supply of energy. I know the ssg does not supply much torque, but I was thinking if I had say 4 of these, I should be able to spin the windmill generator continually ( this is my theory )

gabriolaman
12-16-2007, 11:17 PM
second try :D

282

you might as welll give it a try because even if you fail you will learn and if you succeed you will learn so no matter the out come its a positive situation


anyways heres my latest i got no multimeter( hopefully will arrive tomorrow) so i cant test it yet its 4 power one trigger 200' coil

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b25/-emc-/100_7745.jpg

splocal
12-17-2007, 03:09 AM
OK iv been trying to figure this out, what is trifillar? Obviously sounds like three wires, a trigger, a power and what else? and are litz and trifillar the same? also does twisting the trigger and power wire together before winding make any difference?:thinking:

gabriolaman
12-17-2007, 03:36 AM
the third could be a second power or a recovery depends on the energy recovery design and twisting the wires help reduce capacitance in the coil

Aaron
12-17-2007, 03:37 AM
Trifilar is 3 wires. They can be "litzed" or twisted or not.

All 3 wrapped at same time.

I have a few "trifilars" that are equal lengths but the power/trigger are wound one way and the 3rd recovery winding is wrapped in the opposite direction.

Sephiroth
12-17-2007, 02:01 PM
why is the recovery wrapped in the opposite direction?

Aaron
12-17-2007, 05:43 PM
7 years ago, I thought that is how it was supposed to be. To this day, I don't think there have been side by side tests.

Anyway, I'd recommend not doing it reversed but just wrap all 3 together.

On an old "dual battery charger" schematic, there is a dot in the coils indicating North and the recovery had the dot at the bottom...I thought that meant to reverse the winding but it means out of phase 180 degrees.

Sephiroth
12-17-2007, 07:46 PM
:thinking: that's very interesting... did you read a post i made earlier about what i thought makes the transistor turn off to allow multiple pulses per magnet? I could be wrong (not being an electronics boffin) but as i understand if you have a standard bifilar coil with both wires wrapped the same direction and then pulsed a current through one of the coils a current would be induced in the opposite direction in the other wire. Is that right or have I misunderstood?

it could be that instead of the recovery coil being wrapped in the opposite direction, the diagram implied that the current flowed in the opposite direction?

Aaron
12-17-2007, 09:09 PM
The dot at the bottom of the recovery winding indicates that it is for taking the spike when the field collapses in reverse polarity and the North is at the bottom.

Even if you have a 1 wire coil and apply power...during the applied power, you get counter efm coming in the opposite direction because of Lenz's law. After the coil is turned off, the loop is open and all the work that went into the pulse comes back converted back to voltage potential. The collapse spike is not the counter efm but happens afterwards.

Sephiroth
12-17-2007, 09:26 PM
thanks for responding!

so does that mean I've got the right idea?

I can't find any where that says what this diode (1n4001) is for but am i right in guessing that when the power coil fires, its magnetic field induces a current in the trigger coil in the opposite direction to the current induced by the magnets and thus quickly turns off the transistor as soon as it opens which results in the sharp pulsing? ...
...and allows for multiple pulses per magnet.

if not how does the transistor turn on and off multiple times per passing magnet?

gabriolaman
12-17-2007, 11:10 PM
c rate= ah/20

is this watts ??

Jetijs
12-17-2007, 11:14 PM
No, that are amps. If your battery is rated 20Ah, then the recommended charge/discharge rate would be at 1A or 12watts (if you are using a 12v battery).

Sephiroth
12-17-2007, 11:18 PM
watts is amps x volts.

a 12V 7.2ah battery can (technically) create an elecrtrical current of 1 amp at 12V for 7.2 hours though it isnt very good for the batteries to be discharged this fast.

that is why the c20 rate is recomended. c20 is the amp hours divided by 20 so for example if you are using a 7.2 ah battery the optimal discharge rate would be 7.2/20 = 360ma (which is 4.32 watts).

Sephiroth
12-17-2007, 11:20 PM
haha... sorry jetijs! you are just too fast for me!

sorry for the double answer!

gabriolaman
12-18-2007, 01:44 AM
ok thanks guyz its hard to find details about things like that on google
:cheers:

splocal
12-18-2007, 06:33 AM
OK so twisting the wires does make a difference, the less capacitance the better right:thumbsup: guess its back to twisting and wrapping my coil again. I wonder if I used two trigger wires would I get more power or maybe two power wires would induce more current in the trigger:thinking:

Sephiroth
12-18-2007, 06:50 AM
OK so twisting the wires does make a difference, the less capacitance the better right:thumbsup: guess its back to twisting and wrapping my coil again. I wonder if I used two trigger wires would I get more power or maybe two power wires would induce more current in the trigger:thinking:

i'm using 2 triggers and 4 transistors at the moment. Adding the second trigger lets me use much much much weaker magnets but i am getting the same speed from the rotor (possibly faster, hard to tell)

it is much easier to start. Using magnets half the size i was using with 1 trigger (they were double stacked but now using just 1 layer) and have increased the gap between stator and rotor to 4 mm (was 1mm) and the sweet spot resistance is higher than i've got the resistors for at the moment! With one trigger the sweet spot was about 600ohms but now i have stuck every resistor i have on the trigger and it is now 2.4kilo ohms but i think the sweet spot is still higher than that.

Since increasing the gap the motor still spins at a several thousand rpm (no tach so just an estimate) and there is NO vibration from the mounting and the motor runs cold and silent.

I think it depends on your machine whether you need 2 triggers or not... i had to add a second one because 1 trigger coil wouldnt power that many transistors on my motor. Tried triple stacking the magnets but the motor didnt run as fast and was very jerky.

EDIT: forgot to mention the trigger coils are connected in series.

splocal
12-20-2007, 02:24 AM
it is much easier to start. Using magnets half the size i was using with 1 trigger (they were double stacked but now using just 1 layer) and have increased the gap between stator and rotor to 4 mm (was 1mm) and the sweet spot resistance is higher than i've got the resistors for at the moment! With one trigger the sweet spot was about 600ohms but now i have stuck every resistor i have on the trigger and it is now 2.4kilo ohms but i think the sweet spot is still higher than that.
Since increasing the gap the motor still spins at a several thousand rpm (no tach so just an estimate) and there is NO vibration from the mounting and the motor runs cold and silent.

That is awesome :D Actually this may be old news to you but I just figured that out. I made my coil mounting adjustable I had it as far up / close as I could get it to the magnets but the mounting was restricting me a little. I tweaked the design a bit and got the coil to just a hair away from the magnets! Now she is spinning like a champ much faster :suprise: I think I read that the faster the rotor spins the less amps it draws, so hopefully this should increase my efficiency. I have a 680 Ohm on it now but thinking of removing it and using my 1K pot to try to tune it again. And now I am also definatly going to add a second trigger, that should also help when I add my second coil. Also I saw laser tachs on ebay for about $20 I need to start accurately tracking speed in relation to efficiency. :cheers:

splocal
12-20-2007, 03:30 AM
Gabriolaman I was in another thread in this forum and saw a picture of your H-Wave very cool:thumbsup: I was wondering if you could tell me how you hooked up your laptop to the SG ? I downloaded some software, have a Headphone jack and wrapped a small coil to try to pick up the magnet pulse to measure my RPM. Didn't work:wall: Anywho I heard that you can also measure your RPM by the pulse repetition rate of your h-wave. Jetijs said he hooked up one end to the emmiter and the other to the collector. you said you used a variable resistor ( 1K pot?) to tune it to allow the rotor to still run and read the scope with out interfearing with the SG. Is their anything else I should know? does it matter which wire is hooked up to emitter/collector:thinking: was the variable resistor the only thing you had between the circuit and the scope? I dont want to blow my sound card, but really want to see the wave form and try to use it to tune my SG. Any tips would be greatly appreciated!:cheers:

gabriolaman
12-20-2007, 03:48 AM
well to hook the sg to my sound card i put a 2 or 3 hundred ohm resistor on the positive side of the mic in and the hooked it to the c and then negitive to the e, i remember playing with the resistor on the mic cable to get it right

and for tunning your sg its best to have a larger resistor on the base and tune with a lower resistance pot like a 25 ohm maybe start with the 1 k get it to where it seems good add some resistance close to what the pot was then uses a lower resist pot here i found this message from john bedini to someone about tunning:

Regarding my replication, he said at present the input batteries are drawing maybe 0.6 watts, which is so low it wouldn't even run an LED, so the fact that it is running a wheel and charging batteries on the back end should be an indication that there is something other than just a transfer of energy from one battery to another.

Here is how you find the proper run speed.

calculate the C-20 rate for your input battery. (Cold Cranking Amps / 20 = Ah of the battery; Ah / 20 gives you "C-20" rate)
as an arbitrary starting point, put a 680 ohm resistor in the base of the circuit (defined: "base resistor"), measure the input current.
adjust the resistance from there until the input current matches the C-20 rate or slightly less.
Once you have determined that general region, you can fine-tune from there to find the sweet spot within that region (keeping the input current lower than the C-20 rate).

Current meters can profoundly effect the circuit. Get a 1-ohm resistor from Radio Shack with digital readout, to measure current in the least intrusive way (for low cost).

For output current, amp meters are almost entirely useless for determining what is going on there. Something John uses is to bring a compass (galvanometer) over the output positive wire (with that wire in an East-West orientation). The extent of deflection from North is proportional to the flow of magnetic current in the wire. Also, you can use the rate of charge of the output batteries as a gauge of where the most efficient resistance setting is.

Bear in mind that some potentiometer tend to bounce all over the place, so as you hone in, you might hard wire the resistors and just leave one or two 25 ohm potentiometers to fine tune. They are far more stable than the 5k or 10k pots.

The wheel rotation speed will naturally gravitate to the most resonant spot where the best ratio of input to output current is found for a particular resistance. At some base resistances you will see several resonant shifts as the wheel accelerates after being given a push. You may see it accelerate to one peak, then slow down, then accelerate to another, then slow down, and finally accelerate to a third, fastest peak where it equilibrates.

If you notice the rotation speed fluctuating after it has achieved a nominal resonant speed, it is probably because there is not a strong point of resonance for that particular base resistance, so that is not necessarily a good spot for the best performance.

Rather than have one diode coming from the collector of the transistor and then another diode going to each battery, just have one diode per battery coming straight from the collector.

Try and balance the length of wires going to each of the batteries.

Use 12 gauge wire to connect the batteries.

Try and balance the length of wire going from the negative of the charging batteries to the positive of the input battery, branching right at the positive terminal, rather than bridging the negative terminals one after another, then going to the positive terminal. This particular modification doesn't make sense electrically (that it would make any difference), but we are not talking about regular electricity. This particular modification is not a huge factor, but could possibly result in some improvement.

We've specified 20 & 23 awg magnet wire, but larger gauge will produce lower impedance, which will improve the charging effect. (20 is fine for now, for the stage of learning we are at, but eventually we will progress to running 500 Watt inverters.)

I will significantly improve my system by doing more winds than what I now have on my coil (~425 turns). I have the wire, I just need to do it. John predicts that my rotation will go from 300rpm max that I'm seeing now, up to ~500 rpm once I make this one change.

You don't want to get your magnets closer than 1.5 width apart from each other, but the more magnets the better.

As has been mentioned, to help contain your magnets from flying off your rotor, boxing tape with fibers can be woven around the wheel over the magnets; perhaps 2-4 turns around the circumference of the wheel.

Regarding my recent attempt to recharge a non-rechargeable Alkaline battery, he said that "you can't put the Zink back on. however, NiCd and rechargeable alakalines work just fine. Regarding Lithium Ion batteries, he said that you have to be careful because they usual contain a circuit breaker that renders the battery useless if a certain charge is put across it, to keep it from exploding.


Regarding the result I reported yesterday of the battery capacity increasing while just sitting there, disconnected from anything, John said that he and Peter have observed batteries continue charging 13 - 20 hours after being disconnected from the circuit.

If you want your motor to produce torque (which the Bedini circuits are not good for, as they are designed for charging batteries, not for being a prime mover), you can employ the hall effect or opto switching, but that this draws much more current. The most efficiency you can hope for is 29%.

One of the ways you can tell that there is an unusual charging effect taking place is to add a neon bulb in series with your battery, between the positive wire coming from the circuit and the battery. This shows that there is at least 60-70 volts above your battery coming into the battery.

He said the motor "runs on a hidden scalar" as a function of the timing of when the magnet is repulsed as it passes beyond the core, and the charge of the core lingering.

"Radiant Energy" behaves more like a gas.

"There is a neutral spin current," he said, whatever that means.

"Perhaps the best word for what you have built (the Bedini SG) is magnestatic energizer -- a self running magneto, with magnets all of the same pole."

Generators require magnets of alternating N-S poles.

What John has done is combine a motor and a generator.

As soon as the magnet leaves the pole of the electromagnet created in the core, there is a discharge in the coil, the transistor fires, triggering a pulse that then propels the motor.

He said something about a picture he drew based on my replication in which he shows what he calls "quarternions," "hidden field," "a scalar field," "imaginary magnetics."

It think I need more background before understanding what it was he was saying. Ironically, he said that the best article he's ever read on monopoles was written by myself. I assured him that I was merely reporting what James Fauble had relayed to me.
High Energy Magnetic Monopole Sequestered by U.S. Government (http://pesn.com/2004/06/05/HighEnergyMagneticMonopole/)

He has been quietly following the work James Fauble is doing with the Ion Source Beam Projector, and believes James is onto something there. I forwarded them an image John then sent me by email which explains how to build the monopole magnet they've been trying to source by using two ring magnets, one inside the other.

John has been grateful for the documentation that is taking place as a result of this Bedini SG project.

He says, "English is my second language. Math is my first."

While he can read as well as the next person, he has a difficult time composing his thoughts into words, and remembering the proper rules of word construction. He calls it "dyslexia" for lack of a better word. He doesn't want his work to go to the grave with him, so he is glad we are doing what we are doing.

splocal
12-20-2007, 06:15 AM
That was great info, I think that was the most detailed info regarding tuning that I have seen. Lots to do! Need to wind a trifillar, need to add more turns to my coil, need to find the sweet spot and setup my scope, need to go Christmas shopping!:fingerdance: Haha! thanx again Gabriolaman :thumbsup: heres some pix of my SG. Plenty of room to and more coils, my plan is to add at least 8 coils one per magnent.

elias
12-24-2007, 03:11 PM
Hi friends!

I wanted to move on to a more advanced Bedini charger, so I'd like to know what do you think about the attached picture for forming a more powerful scalar north?
I am about to use powerful multi-strand stators so I thought to consider some improvements to the rotor also.

Elias

Jetijs
12-24-2007, 03:43 PM
Hi elias and merry Christmas to you :thumbsup:
I have tried one "superpole" setup, but that was only stacking two N poles together and it did not work well. I did not notice any difference in charging time, but the rotor speed was slower and the torque was also a lot less. I would like to hear what Kevin has to say, because he said that he will try to test his superpole setup, that is a little different from ours where we are just stacking two N poles together. He said that he was able to get the COP >1 with this pole setup. I wonder if he has done his testing :rolleyes:
Anyway, I made a simple simulation of your magnet setup. Here you see how the field looks if we stack two N poles together:
http://www.emuprim.lv/bildez/thumbs/lrg-19-magn.jpg

And here is your setup with 3 magnets:

http://www.emuprim.lv/bildez/thumbs/lrg-28-magn2.jpg

Thanks,
Jetijs

Sephiroth
12-24-2007, 06:30 PM
elias - I tried that exact same set up! lol... though i got similar results to Jetijs. The rotor was slower and didn't appear to run as smoothly though I have a theory!

From what I understand nearly all the "free energy" in this motor is in the initial switching on of the transistor. This creates a temporary dipole where energy from the zero point is then released (the initial peak in the h wave?). I believe that most of the work done spinning the rotor is from this initial peak and then the current follows and kills the dipole. The current also repels the magnet but not as strongly as the "radiant spike".

Any current used is essentially a loss (though this schematic recovers most of the current in the charging battery) so we want the switching time to be as narrow as possible so that we get just the radiant spike and as little of the annoying current that follows it possible.

This would be the advantage of using a super pole! It creates a very narrow north field. Though I think this narrow north is useless unless you use a core to match its diameter. If the core is wider than the north then it is going to attract the south as well as repel the north and the pulse duration is going to be just as long as it was using a standard north. I think this is the problem I was having with it.

I am going to try it again though this time the end of my core will be wedge shaped. This should reduce the pulse duration by almost 10 fold and hopefully yeild better results.



Though here is a second thought... I have been experimenting with a few different configurations of the schematic to study what is happening and the most interesting thing I have found is that if you connect the 1n4007 diode back to the primary battery's positive (without a charging battery attached) the current draw is incredibly less than when a charging battery IS attached though with the same performance from the motor.

Now this would lead me to believe that most of the energy going into the charging battery is, in fact, from the primary battery and isn't coming from the zero point. If I was a skeptic, I would say that this is evidence against the motor being over unity.

However, I am NOT a skeptic :thumbsup:

I think all the "free energy" is in that initial spike when the dipole is created and before the current reaches it. I don't think that spike charges the batteries. So for this to be truly over unity we need to harness more energy from the initial spike to go into the batteries.

Also been playing with some small window coils and I think the next thing I will try is wrapping the coil's exterior with a few (not many) layers of wire creating a compact window coil around the power coils. I think this might have the same effect as the plates inside Gray's conversion tube and capture some of the radient coming from the coils when they pulse. I will then feed these straight into the charging battery and hopefully get solid over unity.

Then again this whole rant is just speculation from my observations! :D I'd be intersted to hear what anyone with more experience thinks about my ideas.

oh! and

:birthday: Jesus! lol Have a great Christmas guys!

elias
12-24-2007, 08:45 PM
Hi, Merry Christmas to you all too :blowout:

Jetijs, Thanks for your simulations, but remember that these software are designed by skeptics by using an incomplete model, and may not be considering most of the mysteries in magnets.
I did a simple experiment by using a compass to measure the strength of the scalar north and it was not so much.

The first thing came to my mind when Bedini commented about pushing two north poles together was the attached picture. (I had thought about this, even before Bedini stated so, now see why patenting things are not a very good idea, because all of us are sharing the same data in the sea of subconscious, but not willing to access it). Maybe I'll use the following geometry, which has both the normal magnet and a sharp one in the middle where those norths are pushing against each-other.
BTW, I have in my mind using this sharp north principle for N-machines. I think that it will increase the current output way much. Unfortunately it is not so simple to build!

I think that super-poles are razer sharp aether streams.
Thanks for your wonderful inputs,

Elias

elias
12-24-2007, 09:29 PM
Though here is a second thought... I have been experimenting with a few different configurations of the schematic to study what is happening and the most interesting thing I have found is that if you connect the 1n4007 diode back to the primary battery's positive (without a charging battery attached) the current draw is incredibly less than when a charging battery IS attached though with the same performance from the motor.


Hi Sephiroth,

In this thread: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1438-bedinis-ssg-secrets.html
I discuss the fact that conventional calculation does not make sense in these circuits (pulsed circuits), Because disconnecting the Battery from the output SHOULD not affect the current draw according to conventional theories. But as you have stated it does affect. So we must ask how? How is it so that the Primary Battery recognizes the secondary battery when it is attached?

This is my conclusion: The electron current is pumped to the coil to generate aetheric current to charge the secondary battery. The aether is somehow acting in the coil as a magnetic field and is influencing the current draw from the primary battery, because the secondary battery has not been directly attached to the primary. When one disconnects the battery, the aether somehow prevents more current to be drawn. In summary, We PAY for the electron current to TAP the aetheric energy.

Elias

Sephiroth
12-24-2007, 10:50 PM
ok... well this is how I see the circuit working now... sorry for the poor animation.

320

At the start of the animation we see the current in the trigger coil being induced by the north of the magnet on the rotor as it starts moving away from the stator. This triggers the transistor and the radiant event occurs by creating the dipole between the positive and the negative of the primary battery.

This radiant event pushes the magnet away (thus converting the radiant into kinetic) and then the current from the primary battery kills the dipole (and contributes to propelling the magnet). the original magnet has now left the stator so there is an idle period then the next magnet comes in.

as this magnet approaches the stator (propelled by the energy from the last radiant event) it induces a current in the power coil that flows through the charging battery (thus charging it).

Because the battery is creating resistance in the circuit it slows down the approaching magnet as it's kinetic is then being converted to chemical within the battery.

I think that because the magnet has slowed down more current is required from the primary battery to help propel the magnet again (though the radiant is doing most of the work here).

When I removed the charging battery there was no resistance in the circuit so the current was free to flow through that point and didnt signifcantly decelerate the rotor so less current was required to keep it rotating.

at least that is my theory! I wish John would explain things better but I understand why he doesnt!

I'm not sure if this is what is actually happening but it is the only explanation I can think of right now! there certainly seems to be alot more to it like can the induced current really light a neon bulb?! More study is needed!

In fact this is probably just plain wrong and I've wasted your time! I'm sorry!

elias
12-25-2007, 08:15 AM
Hi,

Thanks for the animation, but I don't think that the induced voltage by the magnet is capable of charging the secondary battery unless the charging battery's voltage is lower than the induced voltage. It is the back-emf which Peter talks about and opposes the applied potential, and is always "less than" the applied potential, because otherwise the motor could not operate at all. As the speed of the motor increases the induced potential increases in the coil, thus the back-emf increases and also the current to the trigger coil increases too.

What is the H-wave? The h-wave's handle is the spike being absorbed by the charging battery and the rest of it is the induced voltage by the magnet, which if it were more than the voltage of the charging battery that one would be absorbed by it too.

Only in the case which the charging battery is less in voltage compared to the induced voltage it will get affected.

Thanks
Elias

gabriolaman
12-25-2007, 10:23 AM
what if the hole system did not charge on vacuum energy but charged from recycling the collapsed emf at 99.9 % cop and added energy of the coil acting as a generator all the voltage triggered in the coil has one place to go the charge batt the faster the energizer goes the more voltage/current will be generated, the voltage potential of the cemf in theory if 12 volts 150 ma turns to 200 v it could turn back again to the same v/c if it had no loss but you would get back more because run batt voltage is higher so the the charge batttery translates it a little lower voltage and higher current plus a bonus from the gen side and bedini said "you wana do it as fast as you can". the faster the more bonus you get


anywho im no skeptic im just making a theory i got no multimeter yet still waiting for them in the mail then once i got it im gonna run tests on my bedini and see what is goin on

Schpankme
12-28-2007, 06:32 PM
Right now I've got the 4-pole monopole (I think I'll call it a 4PM ;)) with 2.2K base resistors just to see how long it will take to get the battery up to, say, 15V or so.


Hey, what happened to Shamus ?

- Schpankme

elias
12-29-2007, 06:19 PM
Hello friends,

I am about to replicate an SSG with more multi-coils, but after winding one of my coils and testing to see how it works, I was so disappointed, because, the wheel hardly had any torque to it and ran at about 100-150 RPM, very slowly, and more worst of all, it drew about 300mA. Can anyone offer me any clue why this happens.

My coil has about 800 turns of 2*#28, 2*#21, 1* #19 wires.

I personally think that it maybe because of my stacked magnets which are too strong. But I am not sure, in this case I should build another rotor.

A picture of it is attached.

Thanks,

Jetijs
12-29-2007, 06:27 PM
Hi elias,
I do not have any idea why your SSG behaves like this, but I must say, that I doubt that this is because of too strong magnets. When I double stacked my magnets, I noticed serious increase in torque. Are your bearings good? How long does the wheel spin by itself when you rotate it with your hand? Try to run the system on 24v on each side, this will increase the speed and thus decrease the current draw. What is your core material?

amigo
12-29-2007, 06:27 PM
elias,

Why not just remove the second magnets from the stack and run it with single magnets, as a test? And I see you double stack them, one on top the other, rather than making the "scalar north" setup, one next to the other?

Also, have you considered using more than one coil, one for trigger/drive and the rest for the power, the way JB does it?

elias
12-29-2007, 07:49 PM
Hi,

Thanks for the input,
Jetijs, my wheel does not free wheel so much, but it is because of its small rotor, The bearings are fine.
I think that the impedance of my wire is low (about 1 ohm), because when I put two of it filers series, the RPM increased (about 300RPM), and the current draw dropped to about 175mA. I wonder if this is normal. Maybe it is wiser to use a larger wheel.

Amigo,
I am going to do exactly that, Ill' wind a separate coil for the trigger, thanks. My magnets are glued together, and cannot be removed unless I break them :) .


Thanks Again,

Sephiroth
12-29-2007, 08:15 PM
Nice looking set up! :thumbsup:

are you sure all the strands are firing? you can test that by *breifly* shorting the base and collector for each strand to see if it repels the magnet. This will also let you know if all your transistors are working. If it doesn't repel the magnets then either the strand isn't connected or the transistor has fried. :(

and if it attracts the magnets then the coil is the wrong way up! lol... ive done that myself!

is the other coil in the photo hooked up to the circuit as well?

Sephiroth
12-29-2007, 08:23 PM
by the way, jetijs...

is more torque desirable? I also noticed more torque when double stcking the magnets but the rotor seems to go at the same speed as when they are single stacked... it doesnt accelerate as fast and takes more effort to start but the charge/discharge ratio seems to be improved by reducing the torque in the rotor. Havent done any side by side tests though... what do you think? Can the magnets be TOO weak even though they are strong enough to trigger the transistors?

Jetijs
12-29-2007, 09:11 PM
Sephiroth,
in my case double stacking magnets increased not only the torque but also the speed. But I did not use s single coil setup, I had two trifilar coils and 5 transistor system. Maybe this is why I also gained speed by double stacking magnets.

Sephiroth
12-29-2007, 09:59 PM
lol :D I'm using a tri coil ssg (three bifilar coils) :D

324

I'm guessing it would need enough torque to get it to the optimal speed but any more torque would be wasted energy no?

This has always puzzled me. Bedini says weaker magnets are best but HOW weak?! lol...

of course you are going to need enough torque to get the motor to it's optimal speed.

Amount of torque needed would probably be related to the amount of reistance in the bearings and air resistance...

My rotor has very little air resistance since the magnets are recessed... though if my magnets werent recessed I guess I would need a bit more torque to get it to the optimal speed.

Though here is another thought! If we use stronger magnets won't they be more attracted to the core and so more energy will be required to create a magnetic field stong enough to break that attraction and repel the magnets?

I have a feeling there must be an optimal balance. At the moment I am using 10mm x 20mm x 5mm magnets and they seems to work fine with a 1000 turn trigger coil (though it's a bugger to start up!).

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

How weak/strong should the magnets be?

Jetijs
12-29-2007, 10:05 PM
Nice build :)
I believe that the reason John does not want us to use strong magnets is because the neo magnets are so strong, that they oversaturate the core material and that, of course, is bad. So in my opinion the magnet should be the strongest you can get as long it is not too strong to fully saturate the core. That is why we need a wider spacing between coils and magnets if we use neo magnets :)

elias
12-29-2007, 10:19 PM
lol :D I'm using a tri coil ssg (three bifilar coils) :D

Though here is another thought! If we use stronger magnets won't they be more attracted to the core and so more energy will be required to create a magnetic field strong enough to break that attraction and repel the magnets?


How weak/strong should the magnets be?

Sephiroth,

I remember Bedini, mentioning the fact that by firing the coil, it actually attracts the scalar south between the magnets, so it is basically an attraction motor.

My setup is not complete yet, but I have planned to make it a tri coiler setup, like yours, but a little bigger.

Elias

elias
12-31-2007, 07:45 AM
Hi,

Has anyone got any useful info to share here about lubricating the bearings. My bearings seem to have a little friction and it may be because of the grease.

Elias

Sephiroth
12-31-2007, 07:58 AM
I heard lighter fluid is good...

elias
12-31-2007, 04:31 PM
Hello Sephiroth

The bearings had friction to it so it dissatisfied me a lot, so I bought new bearings, which tend to have less friction.
It seems that smaller bearings with smaller balls tend to have much less friction. I am about to build a mini SSG to test that.

Thanks for the input, I am going to get some lighter oil.

BTW, can you give us some info about how your SSG performs?(RPM, Charging Speed, Current draw, etc) It seems nice by the photo.

Elias

Sephiroth
12-31-2007, 05:31 PM
my single coil motor was working better than this one is though I put that down to the batteries.

Using two 7.2Ah batteries which were fine for the 1 coil motor which drew around 300mA but this one draws closer to an amp (about 950mA) so these batteries aren't good for this current draw.

The single coil motor lost .0257A (about 1/4 watt) when running on 300mA which the rotor should have been able generate so that appeared to be over unity.

Saving up for some Golf cart batteries though I really want more than 2 batteries. Very expensive.... about £40 each I think. I understand why this motor won't achieve over unity with just 2 batteries so definatly worth investing in more.

I'm just using it for experiments at the moment until I have bigger batteries. I found this motor has two sweet spots. I have no tach (hard to find a cheap laser tach in the uk) so can only estimate speed but one is at about 1000rpm and the other seems to be just under 3000rpm so I am comparing the two sweet spots to find which is most efficient at charging the batteries.

Also comparing single stack to double stack magnets and after that will compare how long the motor will run swapping the batteries compared to it running on just one battery with the 14007 diode going straight back to the positive of the primary (just for referance).

I'll upload the results when I have them. Though this motor isn't over unity with these batteries it should still give me and idea of the efficiency of different configurations which I can put to good use when I DO get my batteries :D

ren
12-31-2007, 10:21 PM
Nice job on the tri Sep:thumbsup: For small bearings guys check out hobby shops that have RC planes/cars, they usually stack a heap of different sizes for wheels etc and they are all small and high speed. I got mine from a vcr head. They already have a shaft and housing for them too.

In regards to magnets here is my opinion. The wheel is basically a timing device no? You can harness it for mechanical output but it basically is there to switch the coil on and off. You want the switch to be as fast as possible, i.e. on suddenly and off suddenly. With a more powerful magnet the on time would be longer as its magnetic field passes the coil as opposed to a thin weaker magnet. Obviously the base of your transistor needs a minimum amount of current/voltage to trigger it into action, so there is a bare minimum. I have used a ferrite magnet 10mm cubed to trigger a coil and it worked quite well. I cant compare results as the coil was tiny, but charging rate seemed satisfactory.

This could also be the reasoning behind adjustments in the air gap giving different results in charging. Further away and the magnetic flux pattern of the passing magnet is only just touching the coil and only just triggering it too.

Just my musings, someone come and explain it otherwise if its wrong:D

Sephiroth
12-31-2007, 11:01 PM
ren - That is what I am thinking... i didn't notice any difference in the speed between double stack and single stack (and i'm using seriously small magnets compared to bike wheel motors!) but don't have a tach to confirm it.

of course we only care about the charge ratio! So I'm going to do a controlled test to see if it makes a difference.

Those VCR bearing are great arent they! I'm using them too!

I did use rc car teflon shelded bearings but they only lasted a few weeks until they started getting sticky... very small ones, only 7mm diameter with a 3mm shaft. I'm sure slightly bigger ones will last longer :thumbsup:

ren
01-01-2008, 11:41 PM
I finally figured out the fwbr to cap and scr circuit and implemented it into my small window motor driven by ssg circuit. It charges real well, im quite happy with it considering it was just what I had lying around. The other pic is a high speed rotor I am currently building, draws 1 amp on startup which drops to 500ma at running speed. I am using two coils in series as I just couldnt keep the magnets on the wheel with one master and three slaves. Went ridiculously fast, sounded like a jet engine on takeoff, well a mini jet engine anyway:p :D

Im surprised at its charging capabilities considering the relatively small size of the CORLESS coils and neo's on the rotor. I am beginning to think that the most important part of the ssg is the collection of the collapse, not the size of the core or how many windings. Of course all of these factors will come into play, but it was interesting to experiment with a design like this. It may not be a self runner or even super efficient, but the simple Bedini circuit implemented into this design allows for recovery of energy usually wasted. It charges my 7 amp hour quite quickly so far. From 12.20 to 12.60 in 45 minutes so far. And that battery was drained last night to 12.00 and left to sit overnight so its not the voltage bouncing back.

Sorry about the photos, the acrylic reflects the light of the flash giving a washed out look. The speedie is still under construction and has plastic covering on it. Funnily enough. Hooking a 12 volt led up to one of the unused windings caused the amps to drop from about 700ma to 500ma with no difference in speed. It only worked when installed one way though, It drew more when reversed. Both ways it lit up. I am guessing that it acted like a diode and gated back emf or something allowing the power winding to fire more efficiently? Any thoughts?

gmeat
01-02-2008, 12:59 AM
Sorry about the photos, the acrylic reflects the light of the flash giving a washed out look. The speedie is still under construction and has plastic covering on it. Funnily enough. Hooking a 12 volt led up to one of the unused windings caused the amps to drop from about 700ma to 500ma with no difference in speed. It only worked when installed one way though, It drew more when reversed. Both ways it lit up. I am guessing that it acted like a diode and gated back emf or something allowing the power winding to fire more efficiently? Any thoughts?[/QUOTE]






Hi Ren,

Thats an interesting effect, ma drop.I could'nt help notice that 26 amp hour battery.I have that same battery laying around that must be at least 15 years old and when I tried to charge it with a normal charger it would'nt accept the charge, It read about 6 volts.So I used the SSG on it and left it sit for about 2-3 weeks and then charged it up again with the SSG and it seems to be alive again holding 12.20 volts.I dont really use that battery much anymore but its just interesting that you can revive old batteries.

-Gary A

ren
01-02-2008, 01:27 AM
Me too Gary. I have a friend that replaces fire and emergency lighting systems and I tell him to snag some batteries from time to time. They're just getting thrown out otherwise. When I got two of the 26 amp batteries I was stoked to see they both had 12.60 volts plus in them! But that soon died when I powered a 300ma 12 volt light globe. It wouldnt light properly at first, and the globe flickered. I checked all my connections and placed a multi meter on the battery and it read 4 volts. After about 30 seconds it fired up and the volts jumped up to 12 but started rapidly decreasing and was soon below 10v.

When being charged the first time it jumped up to over 17volts straight away and slowly made its way down to about 15 volts. After 5 or six cycles it is performing much better, it runs three light globes (900ma) for about 1/1/2 hours before it reaches 10v. It still jumps up instantly on charge up to about 13.5 volts. Interesting behaviour.

theremart
01-02-2008, 02:31 AM
FINNALLY got my multi coil SSG bedini working today :) It is soo good to look up and see that wheel spinning with two coils.

Also I took a tip from from watching a video of one of the users on the SSG group of putting two 12 V batteries in series as the charging batteries ( 24V) I was greatly impressed but the increase of the charge.

After this, with help of one older and wiser than me in such projects, I have moved up to 36 V ( three batteries ) charging in series. It blew my bulb ( silly of me leaving it on ) but with some slight modification it is still running. And yes, it charges even faster now. ( I am most careful not to knock any of the connectors to charging batteries or my transistor would be toast or vapor one of the two.

Anyhow, sucess is so good to share with those who understand. :blowout:

Thanks all for helping me get my multi coil up.

P.S.

I ran a wire from outside with a 4 foot copper wire in the ground to the positive lead of the charging battery with a diode. Hope this helps.


P.S.S

I should receive this week the wind generator alternator I intend to have the SSG turn the alternator for additional output. This may be fool hearty, but since I can now turn the wheel at over 2,000 RPM with 2 coils, I am hoping I can at least get 1,000 RPM with the generator. I am excited :)

and HAPPY NEW YEAR 2008 !!! all

:yahoo:

ren
01-02-2008, 03:20 AM
Good stuff mate. Sounds like you're on a ssg high!:cheers:

Interesting to see that you say your got a better charging rate with the charge batteries in series, I might have to try this myself. In regards to the ground wire, did you find a significant benefit in this wire? Unusual that you are connecting it to the diode output off the collector, whereas in other peoples schematics I have seen it in the negative line on the front end. Id be interested to see/hear anyones results of this type of modification.

Keep it crankin out!

s

Jetijs
01-02-2008, 12:20 PM
theremart,
sonds really good. Hope that the thing with the ground wire and diode will work well for you :) But don't have too much hopes for the wind generator/alternator. Today I received mine and it is hard to turn the shaft. I had some usual alternators before and they were easy to turn in lo load conditions, but not this permanent magnet alternator. This could be due to the strong magnets and the drag from the copper coils, I don't know if that is supposed to be so, I emailed the seller about this. Nevertheless it generates very well. I don't think that your SSG will have enough torque to turn such a generator (as in picture), because my 6 coil/transistor SSG certainly is not able to turn this generator maybe a big flywheel would help a little.
Hope my new Lindemann attraction motor design will have enough torque :(

Edit:
Heh, I really should read the instructions or manuals first :D Here what it says:
"It is normal in the first few hours of use to hear some clicking sounds when the alternator is turning. This is due to the close tolerance of the rotor and stator assembly. Also it may feel somewhat hard to turn the shaft by hand, but as the bearings "break-in" you will notice that the alternator will start to turn in much slower winds. This may take several days of use depending on your local wind conditions."
:rolleyes:
Thanks,
Jetijs

ren
01-02-2008, 08:25 PM
Just a suggestion guys? I found a small model windmill at jaycar that had a little brushless dc motor inside. It was designed for a childs model, and because of the size of the blades it needed to be very efficient and easy to turn. The thing that blew me away was that at high wind speeds it put out 1amp @ 10v. If you could find something similar it would be ideal, I spun the shaft by hand quite easily, even a single coil ssg wouldnt have too much trouble turning it.

splocal
01-02-2008, 08:42 PM
FINNALLY got my multi coil SSG bedini working today :) It is soo good to look up and see that wheel spinning with two coils.

Also I took a tip from from watching a video of one of the users on the SSG group of putting two 12 V batteries in series as the charging batteries ( 24V) I was greatly impressed but the increase of the charge.

That is awesome, Iam currently also in the process of building my dual coil SSG, too bad I fried a transistor last night trying to do it :wall: I hate when I do that!!! anywhoo I also noticed that the voltage coming into my second coil dropped a bit probably due to resistance of the wire as it is much longer than it is to my first coil. I also was thinking of running my batts in series (24V) just figured 2 coils 2 batteries. Glad I was on the right track. With all the transistors we all have burned out over the years maybe we should invest in their stock :rofl: Well off to buy more 2N3055's I wonder if the other transistors are as sensitive the MJL's? I think! I hear they are more expensive though!

Jetijs
01-02-2008, 09:22 PM
Just a suggestion guys? I found a small model windmill at jaycar that had a little brushless dc motor inside. It was designed for a childs model, and because of the size of the blades it needed to be very efficient and easy to turn. The thing that blew me away was that at high wind speeds it put out 1amp @ 10v. If you could find something similar it would be ideal, I spun the shaft by hand quite easily, even a single coil ssg wouldnt have too much trouble turning it.
Are you talking about this one:
Jaycar Electronics (http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KJ6696&CATID=25&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=390)
??

theremart
01-02-2008, 10:17 PM
That is awesome, Iam currently also in the process of building my dual coil SSG, too bad I fried a transistor last night trying to do it :wall: I hate when I do that!!! anywhoo I also noticed that the voltage coming into my second coil dropped a bit probably due to resistance of the wire as it is much longer than it is to my first coil. I also was thinking of running my batts in series (24V) just figured 2 coils 2 batteries. Glad I was on the right track. With all the transistors we all have burned out over the years maybe we should invest in their stock :rofl: Well off to buy more 2N3055's I wonder if the other transistors are as sensitive the MJL's? I think! I hear they are more expensive though!

Actually, i considered serveral other generators:

1. Dynohub ( it is a old type bicycle generator it was in the center hub of the bicycle others make wind generators from these. Youtube has some demonstrations of this. This would work great for those who used the classic SSG bicycle wheel ( in theory )

2. Motor from treadmill. These can be had very easily on ebay.

I found this website VERY VERY helpful because the people there are VERY hands on, and are very innovative.

gotwind.org - DIY Renewable Energy Resource (http://www.gotwind.org/index.htm)

ren
01-03-2008, 12:58 AM
Are you talking about this one:
Jaycar Electronics (http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KJ6696&CATID=25&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=390)
??

Ahhhh. The salesman told me that it was rated for 1 amp @ 10v. I never checked the packaging to verify his statement. Sorry guys, write up says 1ma. No wonder it spun so smooth:o

splocal
01-03-2008, 06:50 AM
YES :yahoo: I just completed my dual Coil as well!!!! got quit a few good shocks working on it though. For some reason my second transistor was getting very hot couldn't figure it out it was running and everything was hooked up correctly :thinking: Switched out my diode from 1N914 to 1N4001 no change than it dawned on me it only got hot when I hooked up the coil to the collector but it is a pretty small coil only 120 turns of bifillar 18awg not very much resistance . So I put a 10ohm 10W resistor on it and it its working fine now resistor gets hot not the transistor. I was thinking I would try to go lower till the transistor just barley gets warm and stop their I want as much of that precious radiant energy to get back to my battery. The RPM's are also much faster now and when I hooked up my 2 12Volts in series for a nice 24V she took off! however I have not yet figured out how to measure my amp draw, I have a multimeter but which wires or poles do I hook it up to? Also why would my second transistor get hot but not the first one :thinking: theremart did you experience anything like this?

theremart
01-03-2008, 10:47 PM
2X the fun of figuring out where you went wrong :)

I am currently reworking my 2 coil setup, as with so many wires I am currently figuring out a way to tame them. I am putting them in a plastic box and running out the wires to keep my sanity again :)

But I did not have it up long to check to see if the transistor was getting hot, I have put on order a rheostat ( or potentiometer as you like to call it) to replace my dinky potentiometer. There will be much more voltage comming thru this thing, until I get my rehostat in, I will not be going for any joy rides with this new toy over 12 V.

On another note I am currently running a single ( modified SSG ) with 18V for the primary, and 32V on the target. I must say that it will not be soon enough for my new rheostat to come so I can replace the potentiometer. It is charging very well, but it does get very warm to the touch, not burning warm, but hot.

elias
01-04-2008, 02:28 PM
Hello,

I finally built my mini SSG, and yes it flew up to 1200 RPM, with the battery in the circuit. I have 7 magnets on my 9cm dia wheel and have put it to test. The current draw is about 100mA. The torque is reasonable since it was able to drive a pretty big fan in relation to itself quite good. The bearings are 4mm in diameter.

Elias

Sephiroth
01-04-2008, 08:37 PM
wow! was it going at 1200rpm with the fan? I wonder how adding a load effects the motor... it apparently reduces current draw but I wonder how it effects charging :thinking:

By the way... i have done my tests on single/double stacking the magnets and got results I didn't expect.

This is the graph for the double stacked magnets (20mm x 10 mm x 5mm each) rotating 2 conditioned 7.2Ah batteries.
329

I stopped at about 9 hours because the batteries were begining to level out though the average voltage dropped alot less than I expected with such small batteries :D

i havent put together a graph for the single stacked magnets because I could only rotate the batteries for about 5 hours before they leveled out!!!

Unfortunatly all the DC ampmeters on my multimeters have fried so I cant get an reading on current draw :( though it appears that using weaker magnets INCREASED current draw! At least it drained the batteries alot faster.

By the way... the ac ampmeter on my meters still work... is there any way to get an estimate of dc current using an ac meter?

and another update (been busy ;) )

The main problem I have been having is getting big enough batteries and ENOUGH of them... I don't think 1 to 1 charging is going to work very well... so I popped into my local wheelchair centre and lo and behold found a battery gold mine!

In the back room they had 14 high Amp hour batteries that they had written off! So they were only too happy to sell my 5 of the biggest ones for £20!!! The cheapest new 30Ah batteries i could find were £40 EACH online!

So got
2 x 40Ah batteries
1 x 38Ah battery
and 2 x 30 Ah batteries!

Got them home and found 2 of them still had a resting voltage of about 12.78 volts (which is nice :D ) 1 had 10.6 volts sitting in it. but the other two! oh god! 0.5 volts!!!! :suprise: they are seriously dead! One of them has been on the energiser for about 24 hours now and at first it went straight up to 16 volts then gardually dropped for about 5 hours to around 5.5 volts and then started rising slowly again. After 12 hours it was up to 9.4 volts and now (after 24 hours) it is at 10.89 volts so it looks like they might still have a hope! Let's see if we can bring them back to life! :rolleyes:

ren
01-04-2008, 10:29 PM
Sep it is fairly pointless to cycle batteries on the basic sg setup. You probably already know this. My tests so far haven't come close to a true 1 to 1 charge. The best I can get is a full 12 amp hour charging a FULLY dead 7 amp hour 1 to 1. This is over a period of about 2 days, so theres quite a bit of mechanical work unaccounted for.

Good find on the batteries! I'll tell you a little tip. Take a small 12 v globe and your multimeter next time. Wire up the globe on a reasonable healthy batt (12 + if possible) and see if the voltage drops rapidly. This gives you an idea of the condition. If they have just been sitting there (i.e. not on a trickle charge) they are going to be fairly sulphated and degraded, but your monopole can help recondition them!

I have a friend who checks and installs emergency lighting, He goes through tons of these things every day. According to law they must be replaced every two years, even though some of them are fine. Needless to say, I wont need to buy batteries ever again:D

geron
01-04-2008, 10:53 PM
Hello,

just one short question:

how about a separate trigger spool at the Bedini SG ?
Was this already tested and if so, whith what result?
I thought, this may give more flexibility adjusting the trigger-spool.

thanx for hints

Geron

Sephiroth
01-05-2008, 12:15 AM
Sep it is fairly pointless to cycle batteries on the basic sg setup. You probably already know this. My tests so far haven't come close to a true 1 to 1 charge. The best I can get is a full 12 amp hour charging a FULLY dead 7 amp hour 1 to 1. This is over a period of about 2 days, so theres quite a bit of mechanical work unaccounted for.

I'm not sure about that. Cycling batteries should be fine but definatly not one to one charging ie 1 battery charging 1 battery... a "complete" ssg would have at least 4 batteries being charged from one battery. Not saying 1 battery can fully charge all four batteries but according to john this is how the batteries are supposed to be cycled.

splocal
01-05-2008, 02:13 AM
2But I did not have it up long to check to see if the transistor was getting hot, I have put on order a rheostat ( or potentiometer as you like to call it) to replace my dinky potentiometer. There will be much more voltage coming thru this thing, until I get my rehostat in, I will not be going for any joy rides with this new toy over 12 V.

Well I took the risk so far shes been running ok but definatly uses more energy, I was able to run my single SG on a 6V drill battery over night and into the late morning, now she only runs barley through the night. I hooked up 2 12V batts in series and everything stayed cold only after I hooked up the 10ohm resistor between my second coil and the collector. One thing to be careful of though is dont leave your SG on very long with out a batt on the charge side or your sure to burn out a transistor if your using more than 12V. I had 24V on and as soon as I unhooked my charge batt the transistor got hot really fast luckily I unhooked it before death.

Im going to pick up some pots at the shack in a minute 2 1K pots and 2 25ohm pots. this is what John B recommends for tunning. if you haven't seen it yet on a previous message in this thread there are details on tunning very good too. well good luck remart I will let you know if I learn anything of importance! So far I think I just need to tune mine better drawing too much amperage I am sure I just hope its not above the C rate dont want to ruin my battery's!:cheers:
Oh ya just got my DVD too! Energy from the vacuum, Sweet cant wait to watch it.

elias
01-05-2008, 05:23 AM
Hello everyone,

May you see this document, It uses dead batteries to capture the Radiant energy and improve the charging capabilities of the secondary battery, the document is pretty reasonable.:thinking: So if the dead battery cannot come alive, at least it can convert radiant energy for rest of the batteries. I agree with the fact that all of the radiant energy is not properly captured in these circuits. This can be verified by using different size capacitors instead of batteries. By calculating 0.5*C*V^2 for them, you may find out that running the SSG for a certain amount of time will accumulate different amount of energy.

I had found this article some time ago on one of the forums I don't remember.

Happy charging :rainbow:
Elias

geron
01-05-2008, 11:55 AM
Hello everyone,
I agree with the fact that all of the radiant energy is not properly captured in these circuits. This can be verified by using different size capacitors instead of batteries. By calculating 0.5*C*V^2 for them, you may find out that running the SSG for a certain amount of time will accumulate different amount of energy.


What about using capacitors instead of battery?

Is there some reason, that they shouldn't work or miss important properties of a battery?
While they are not really appropriate collecting energy, they might give the advantage to have very soon a result of the efficiency of the bedinimachine.

Nearly the same we might have with small batteries (nickel cadmium or like that): if the one, which is driving the machine, is emptied within 5 or ten minutes while the other one is charged, we should get a much more precise result and may have many more testing cycles, than with bigger batteries.

theremart
01-05-2008, 02:10 PM
Hello everyone,

May you see this document, It uses dead batteries to capture the Radiant energy and improve the charging capabilities of the secondary battery, the document is pretty reasonable.:thinking: So if the dead battery cannot come alive, at least it can convert radiant energy for rest of the batteries. I agree with the fact that all of the radiant energy is not properly captured in these circuits. This can be verified by using different size capacitors instead of batteries. By calculating 0.5*C*V^2 for them, you may find out that running the SSG for a certain amount of time will accumulate different amount of energy.

I had found this article some time ago on one of the forums I don't remember.

Happy charging :rainbow:
Elias

This makes alot of sense. I have read where people use motor cycle batteries as a buffer for their wind generators ( it gets fried before the other batteries do )

I have all the parts, I may just build this. My goal is to charge many batterries at the same time, this seems simple and powerful.

I love it.

Mart

elias
01-05-2008, 04:32 PM
What about using capacitors instead of battery?

Is there some reason, that they shouldn't work or miss important properties of a battery?
While they are not really appropriate collecting energy, they might give the advantage to have very soon a result of the efficiency of the bedinimachine.

Nearly the same we might have with small batteries (nickel cadmium or like that): if the one, which is driving the machine, is emptied within 5 or ten minutes while the other one is charged, we should get a much more precise result and may have many more testing cycles, than with bigger batteries.

Hi Geron,

In my oponion batteries are different from capacitors, although electrolytic capacitors are a bit similar to batteries, but batteries tend to behave rather non-linear and store charge rather differently. Capacitors are not like that.

I made that example for verification of how much energy is in the output of the system and different capacitors absorb different amount of energy. So different batteries can indeed "absorb" different amount of energy too, as Bedini has stated he uses four on the output.

Elias

theremart
01-05-2008, 04:47 PM
But just one thing.... I believe it needs a diode to the charging battery.. I went to plug in the circuit, and found that it was powering itself from the charging battery and turning the wheel.

Will keep you updated to what else I find :)

Mart

Schpankme
01-05-2008, 04:59 PM
So different batteries can indeed "absorb" different amount of energy too, as Bedini has stated he uses four on the output. - Elias

Solid State Infinite Power Supply (IPS) from Ossie Callanan

Jean-Louis Naudin has replicated the IPS device (2004) and conducted some tests and measurements. The inventor claims that his device is able to power a 220V/15 Watts light bulb with two 12V lead acid batteries as the power source without discharging these batteries...

* During at least 4 hours and half, the voltage of the two batteries used as power sources remains very stable,

* During 4 hours and half, the voltage of the battery B2 has only dropped of (12.84V - 12.63V) = 0.21V ( -1.6% ) and the voltage of the battery B2 has only dropped of (12.86V - 12.50V) = 0.36V ( -2.8% ) while one ampere is drawn from each battery and the light bulb brights fully at the IPS output.

* During the full test ( 7 hours 20 min ), the voltage of the battery B2 has only dropped of (12.84V - 12.58V) = 0.26V ( -2% ) and the voltage of the battery B2 has only dropped of (12.86V - 11.51V) = 1.35V ( -10.5% ). It is important to notice that the battery B1 is a new battery while the battery B2 is an old battery.

* The intensity of the light emitted by the light bulb connected at the IPS output has never apparently dropped during the whole test.

After these series of IPS tests, I can only say that the Ossie Callanan's IPS device works at least as an efficient Power Inverter. Thanks to Ossie Callanan for sharing free his invention for the benefit of all.

You will find below the current tests results :
Solid State Infinite Power Supply (IPS) from Ossie Callanan tested by Jean-Louis Naudin (http://jlnlabs.online.fr/projects/ipstst/index.htm)

- Schpankme

theremart
01-05-2008, 07:06 PM
I built it exactly as the diagram has, except I am using a relay to protect my reed switch.

I am unable to get the coil to trigger the reed switch ( so far )... but moving the reed switch to the magnets it does move like a regular pulse motor

One note my transistor is getting extremely hot..... I may be putting on a heat sync. I wish I had some point of reference to know what I am doing wrong to get the reed switch to trigger on the coil.

Think I will take a break, but anyone who has done this before, would be glad to get your insights.

Mart

Sephiroth
01-05-2008, 07:17 PM
i've been trying to replicate it as well and can not get the coil to trigger the reed switch... I also tried hooking the trigger coil in series with the reed and strapping it to the back side of my core but still no luck...

elias
01-05-2008, 09:03 PM
Hello everyone and thanks for your efforts, but ...

I personally like the battery bank setup ,and I think that it is better to first test that part. For pulsing a coil one does not need to make a motor at all, a 555 and a mosfet, will do that. I think that SSG's objective is to be also a good motor with torque which draws less under load and a battery charger.

I would suggest testing the second part of the document, which I think is one of the keys to capturing more of the Radiant Energy.
I don't think that pulsing a coil for a very short amount of time, will put out enough torque. I had tested this before by using a 555, and a hall switch. Also I don't think that the output impulse would have enough force to charge the battery, because of less electron flow, As Peter has told us we require a bare minimum of electron current to charge the battery.

Charging the battery with more electron per impulse is like hitting a heavier hammer each time to the nail(battery) instead of more lighter hammers. Which one would have more effect on the nail? The heavier hammer (more electron) or the lighter one (less electron)? Of course heavier hammers can put the nail in its place in few impulses, but using a light hammer would not cause the nail to move so much, with even more impulses.

So I think that there is an optimum ratio, between Radiant Energy (the impulse) and the electron current (The weight of each impulse).

Anyway just thoughts, eager to hear your opinions.

Elias

Sephiroth
01-05-2008, 09:49 PM
Trying that now and just found something really wierd...

i hooked 4 of my dead batteries in series and then hooked them in parralel with the battery on the sg i'm charging (that's how its done isnt it?)

well here are the battery voltages:

Charging battery = 13.17v

and going from the negative to the positive side of the charging battery

battery 1 = 12.11v
battery 2 = 7.51v
battery 3 = -14.19 (yes, MINUS 14.19 volts)
battery 4 = 7.17v

battery 3 was the dead dead dead battery that was only on 0.5volts
battery 2 is the other dead dead dead battery that had been charging on the sg for 2 days.

what is up with the minus voltage?! is that even possible?

i'll see what they are doing after an hour

theremart
01-05-2008, 11:26 PM
Re label the termimnals and go with it 14 Volts :) sounds like it was reverse charged. (someone put the charger on backwards)

But it does sound like a good idea how he has the batteries hooked up on the back end, not sure if that really works, but worth a shot. I sure like putting batteries in series, I was just afraid that I would cook the one battery hooking up all the others up to it in series. I have 4 Deep cell batteries and 4 Golf cart batteries... currently I am super charging them by letting the voltage run up to the max. I understand this could take days, so I am holding out for the long run.

Sephiroth
01-05-2008, 11:53 PM
cheers! jsut looked up reverse charging on wikipedia:

Reverse charging, which damages batteries, is when a rechargeable battery is recharged with its polarity reversed. Reverse charging can occur under a number of circumstances, the two most important being:
When a battery is incorrectly inserted into a charger.
When multiple batteries are used in series in a device. When one battery completely discharges ahead of the rest, the other batteries in series may force the discharged battery to discharge to below zero voltage.

I guess I should try and put some life back into it first! not doing such a bad job on its twin brother... charges up to 11.5 and rests at around 10... going to take a week to get it into a usable condition though!

I'll take battery 3 out for now!

Sephiroth
01-05-2008, 11:56 PM
aw, that's just great... took out battery 3 and now battery 2 has dropped to minus voltage!

I guess those two just don't have a hope!

Schpankme
01-06-2008, 12:06 AM
I am unable to get the coil to trigger the reed switch ( so far )

"Using a very small and weak magnet, you can now control and adjust the reed switch. (see picture provided)

"This will allow you to adjust the switching so that the circuit oscillates continuously but still powers the passing magnet on the rotor."

"When you do this the coils HISS very loudly! Yes, the coils HISS, not with a tone or frequency but with a hiss like NOISE?"

- Schpankme

theremart
01-06-2008, 12:23 AM
YES :yahoo: I just completed my dual Coil as well!!!! got quit a few good shocks working on it though. For some reason my second transistor was getting very hot couldn't figure it out it was running and everything was hooked up correctly :thinking: Switched out my diode from 1N914 to 1N4001 no change than it dawned on me it only got hot when I hooked up the coil to the collector but it is a pretty small coil only 120 turns of bifillar 18awg not very much resistance . So I put a 10ohm 10W resistor on it and it its working fine now resistor gets hot not the transistor. I was thinking I would try to go lower till the transistor just barley gets warm and stop their I want as much of that precious radiant energy to get back to my battery. The RPM's are also much faster now and when I hooked up my 2 12Volts in series for a nice 24V she took off! however I have not yet figured out how to measure my amp draw, I have a multimeter but which wires or poles do I hook it up to? Also why would my second transistor get hot but not the first one :thinking: theremart did you experience anything like this?

I have finished getting all of my wires back in order, and yes, The second transistor is getting VERY hot. I really would like to have this corrected before i move to any higher voltage. Anybody have ideas why this may be?

theremart
01-06-2008, 01:30 AM
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1868.msg21763

They have a long thread about this device there.

There are more pictures of the setup he is using. I am still wrestling with this one...

Mart

Samemf
01-07-2008, 04:41 PM
Hello everyone ,

Heres a few videos of my bedini learning curve .

YouTube - bedini one coil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJfpovR5lwY)

YouTube - bedini bike wheel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6rl0_326mU)

YouTube - bedini one coil harddisk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_Td3dJPVrQ)

YouTube - my bedini energizers of solar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_XvHtMkero)

Im sorry bout the quality

buts each one helped me advance ahead in learning .
This forum has been a great encouragemment and infomation sharing is great .

The last video has my latest bedini with three coils , it pull 330-340ma
I had to make the magnet to coil spaces bigger because it just went incredibly fast and wanted to take off like a helicopter , so until I make some kind of shield I have it out a bit and runs ok , Charging seems ok thus far .

A few things Iv learnt was tunning is very important , I downloaded xscope and made a lead with a voltage divider and its perfect for tunning , however I noticed that it also effected the bedini ie when i take the scope leads off speed changes , therefore I would use my clamp ammeter and occasionally quickly check wave forms ,

so yes tunning is importatnt and is a bit of job for 3 coils .
spacing of magnets to coils also changes the tunning of your bedini .

ie if you change space of magnets to coil you would have to retune with different base resistance .

Conditioning batteries is a must , I know its very frustrating with long charges but as kevin mentions is a previous post i read he did not start seeing good results until he cycled them like 20-30 times .

Smaller batteries are easier and faster to cycle , I have a couple of small 1.3 ah batts and I cycled them many times , now I can charge these small batteries from 12 to 14.5 in like 3-4 hours .

I also did not wait for them to reach above 14 volts when cycling them I was taking them off at like 13.2volts , but as time went by they were charging faster and higher .

I am also now charging 12ah pretty good got them now to charge in like under 7 hours from 12.3 to 13.4 volts , but they are improving each time .


So what im trying to say is be patient , let things go along , and load them up at their c20 discharge rates and not higher , Im using them on night ights for the kids.

Thanks to everyone who inputs to the evolution of alternative energies in this forum .
Btw I have now connetected up a solar panel and regulator and running my bedinies off that for while .

I read here that some are hooking the charging batteries in series ?
up to 24v or 36v on the charging side .

can anyone comment on the results , and is the run battery still 12v in this setup ?

I tried it quickly and I hooked the 2 12ah batteries in series and they seemed and voltage seemed to be increasing , but I never left it like that .

Any info on this would be great .

Sam

elias
01-07-2008, 05:00 PM
The last video has my latest bedini with three coils , it pull 330-340ma
I had to make the magnet to coil spaces bigger because it just went incredibly fast and wanted to take off like a helicopter , so until I make some kind of shield I have it out a bit and runs ok , Charging seems ok thus far .



Hi Sam,

Thanks for sharing your experiences, I am a bit concerned about turning my SSG into a helicopter too :rofl:, because I am planning to make my SSG a Tri coiler and then Six coiler with nine magnets. Charging with a one coil SSG is frustrating and takes time, also treating dead batteries seems impossible. You certainly encouraged me making it a big energizer. My plan is to gradually prepare myself go off the grid.

Wish you success.

Elias

theremart
01-09-2008, 11:53 AM
Well, since I have heard others have fried transistors at 24V, I wanted to share what a friend of mine on Yahoo groups does to protect the transistors.

He lines up zener diodes in the circuit, and so far this has worked wonders for me. I would add 1 more zener if you go up to 36 V.

------

24V SSG variation
SSG modified for 24 volt supply, to better protect the transistor from over voltage (maximum of 36 volts to output).
By: jpopelish ( yahoo groups )

Happy charging..
Mart

Jetijs
01-09-2008, 01:22 PM
This is nice! Thanks for sharing :)

theremart
01-09-2008, 07:43 PM
"Using a very small and weak magnet, you can now control and adjust the reed switch. (see picture provided)

"This will allow you to adjust the switching so that the circuit oscillates continuously but still powers the passing magnet on the rotor."

"When you do this the coils HISS very loudly! Yes, the coils HISS, not with a tone or frequency but with a hiss like NOISE?"

- Schpankme

I did try the weaker magnet, still no go :( I am going back to my multi coil setup.

elias
01-09-2008, 08:51 PM
I did try the weaker magnet, still no go :( I am going back to my multi coil setup.

That's a good idea. Bedini has not designed his systems like this due to accident! I believe he has tested and experimented years until he has reached a circuit like this. I have just decided to build a good big energizer and test it after conditioning my batteries properly. Other modifications to the circuit are after one achieves COP > 1 with this setup in my opinion.

I only posted that document for the second part, which may be a use for batteries to catch more radiant energy for us, nothing more. If one wants huge oscillations, 555, or a similar circuit can be used also, with a relay or something like that.

Elias

theremart
01-10-2008, 03:45 PM
Sigh,

Well I put 5 Coils firing on the wheel I attached to this generator, and I could not get it to turn:wall: . I am seriously thinking about returning this generator...

The other option I have is to build a motor that uses very little power to turn this generator to achieve over unity,

Per say ->
http://www.geocities.com/koneheadx/32magnetrotor.html


Or, to build an alcohol still and use a lawnmower powered by the alcohol to turn the alternator to charge the batteries. ( this requires some serious travel and work )









theremart,
sonds really good. Hope that the thing with the ground wire and diode will work well for you :) But don't have too much hopes for the wind generator/alternator. Today I received mine and it is hard to turn the shaft. I had some usual alternators before and they were easy to turn in lo load conditions, but not this permanent magnet alternator. This could be due to the strong magnets and the drag from the copper coils, I don't know if that is supposed to be so, I emailed the seller about this. Nevertheless it generates very well. I don't think that your SSG will have enough torque to turn such a generator (as in picture), because my 6 coil/transistor SSG certainly is not able to turn this generator maybe a big flywheel would help a little.
Hope my new Lindemann attraction motor design will have enough torque :(

Edit:
Heh, I really should read the instructions or manuals first :D Here what it says:
"It is normal in the first few hours of use to hear some clicking sounds when the alternator is turning. This is due to the close tolerance of the rotor and stator assembly. Also it may feel somewhat hard to turn the shaft by hand, but as the bearings "break-in" you will notice that the alternator will start to turn in much slower winds. This may take several days of use depending on your local wind conditions."
:rolleyes:
Thanks,
Jetijs

elias
01-10-2008, 04:47 PM
Sigh,

Well I put 5 Coils firing on the wheel I attached to this generator, and I could not get it to turn:wall: . I am seriously thinking about returning this generator...

The other option I have is to build a motor that uses very little power to turn this generator to achieve over unity,

Per say ->
http://www.geocities.com/koneheadx/32magnetrotor.html


Or, to build an alcohol still and use a lawnmower powered by the alcohol to turn the alternator to charge the batteries. ( this requires some serious travel and work )

The generator must only drag, when a load is attached to the output. If it does not turn without a load so easily then it must be an issue with poor design. It is very disappointing to see that you could not turn it with a five coil SSG.

Jetijs
01-10-2008, 05:20 PM
Try to attach the generator to a electric drill or something like that to turn it for a few days or so and then see if it turns lighter. Because the bearings must "kick in" before you will get the light rotation. If this does not help, then you may consider to return the generator.

theremart
01-11-2008, 03:44 AM
And I have moved back to my multi coil system.

Today I found a video I wished I would of found months ago.

Bedini Monopole Mechanical Oscillator SSG Energizer dialup speed Video Presentat (http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=-2778867219155907080)

This is the baby steps of building an SSG. There is a lot of little bits of information in this video that has helped me to understand the bigger picture.

I am starting to charge up small batteries with 2 solar chargers that I have found and I have wired them up in series. So even on cloudy days it is starting to charge a battery for my power source, I do hope to be able to charge a 12 V battery so that I can use it to charge 4 others. ( have had alot of cloudy days but that is to be expected in winter )

I am very pleased with leaving the charger on the batteries for over 4 days. 2 of my batteries are right at 13 V. ( these are ) 115 AH batteries. These were declared dead, ( they did not load test well ) today when I put one under load it stayed at 12.4 V for over 3 hours pulling 1/2 amp. This is very marked improvement, from where it started only staying on for about 13 min.

I have not lost hope, only shifting directions, I do feel that I am being drawn to get an usb computer oscilloscope, but I am always drawn in 30 directions :)

I am thinking next I will put the golf cart batteries in 24 V ( sets ) then start swaping them in charge so they get conditioned much better.

I just picked up some capacitors, I am thinking of taking my relay and using a photo sensor to trigger the release of the cap when the light comes on at 24 V. Have not quite worked out the details of that yet...

So many projects, so little time, but hey it is fun ! :thumbsup:

elias
01-11-2008, 12:57 PM
Has anyone seen these pictures?
New Page 2 (http://www.icehouse.net/john34/kron.html)

They are rather interesting, I hadn't seen them before, which show the development of Bedini's six coil energizer in pictures, stage by stage.

Aaron
01-11-2008, 06:39 PM
Hi Elias,

This page has a compilation of all of John's links in his websites:
John Bedini | Radiant Energy (http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/index.html)

splocal
01-11-2008, 08:01 PM
Has anyone seen these pictures?
New Page 2 (http://www.icehouse.net/john34/kron.html)

They are rather interesting, I hadn't seen them before, which show the development of Bedini's six coil energizer in pictures, stage by stage.

That is REALLY COOL! :thumbsup: makes me want to go make one today! Iam sure it is more complicated than it looks though, one thing I noticed was 4 transistors per coil why? maybe the power coming off the coils are too powerful for one transistor :thinking: they appeared to be hooked up to a copper strip so they would trigger at the same time, and those arenít
2N3055's either. Look like the MJ's, I also wonder why he used an aluminum rotor as appose to an acrylic one like the rest of the device seems more expensive using metal. It would be great one day to get off the grid with a device like this! Imagine the changes that would take place in the world if we would just embrace this concept!

elias
01-11-2008, 08:16 PM
Hi Elias,

This page has a compilation of all of John's links in his websites:
John Bedini | Radiant Energy (http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/index.html)

Thanks Aaron,
But I couldn't see this page on your links list. This page mainly interested me as it demonstrates building a six coiler SSG stage by stage in pictures by Bedini himself. It is quite neat.

ren
01-11-2008, 09:14 PM
That is REALLY COOL! :thumbsup: makes me want to go make one today! Iam sure it is more complicated than it looks though, one thing I noticed was 4 transistors per coil why? maybe the power coming off the coils are too powerful for one transistor :thinking: they appeared to be hooked up to a copper strip so they would trigger at the same time, and those arenít
2N3055's either. Look like the MJ's, I also wonder why he used an aluminum rotor as appose to an acrylic one like the rest of the device seems more expensive using metal. It would be great one day to get off the grid with a device like this! Imagine the changes that would take place in the world if we would just embrace this concept!



Splocal, John has hooked up each coil in a master slave configuration. IF all coils are firing at the same time, then each coil doesnt need a separate trigger and you can trigger all transistors to fire all windings off of one trigger winding. This is sort of like an ampification effect with say 4 windings firing at the same time on a different transistor each as opposed to 1 transistor with four windings connected to its collector. Much stronger and much faster. The aluminum rotor looks like it was picked for mass and flywheel effect. Imagine trying to stop that with your hands at full speed:suprise: :D

splocal
01-13-2008, 11:16 PM
Splocal, John has hooked up each coil in a master slave configuration. IF all coils are firing at the same time, then each coil doesnt need a separate trigger and you can trigger all transistors to fire all windings off of one trigger winding. This is sort of like an ampification effect with say 4 windings firing at the same time on a different transistor each as opposed to 1 transistor with four windings connected to its collector. Much stronger and much faster. The aluminum rotor looks like it was picked for mass and flywheel effect. Imagine trying to stop that with your hands at full speed:suprise: :D

Ren here is a schematic I found from Bedini himself however I only see one transistor per coil! I too have my dual coil SG setup in a slave configuration one coil triggers both coils to fire simultaneously seems to work well just haven't got around to tunning it yet. In those pictures he has 4 transistors per coil that is what confused me the schematic I have only requires one per coil. :thinking: Good point on the mass for the fly wheel, once it gets moving it would have allot more torque!

ren
01-14-2008, 12:19 AM
I think that the schematic is simply drawn like that for simplicity. The slave coils can be separate coils or they can be multiple windings on one coil. By the look of JB's pics he has 4 transistors in a row per board, so he probably has 4 filar coils, meaning each coil has 4 lengths of wire. However one of them (the master) would be 5 filar to accomodate the trigger winding.

splocal
01-15-2008, 11:53 AM
I think that the schematic is simply drawn like that for simplicity. The slave coils can be separate coils or they can be multiple windings on one coil. By the look of JB's pics he has 4 transistors in a row per board, so he probably has 4 filar coils, meaning each coil has 4 lengths of wire. However one of them (the master) would be 5 filar to accomodate the trigger winding.

:thumbsup: Ahhhh so each wire has a separate transistor! I have a bifilar on my second coil but hooked up my one transistor to both wires. I wonder does having multiple transistors per coil increase the E-effect ( environmental energy amplification). In my opinion whatever John bedini does is worth trying since he is the father of these motors anyways.:cheers:

ren
01-15-2008, 08:19 PM
yep you got it! Split yours and run two transistors, using the signal from your trigger to activate the second transistor. You can have a switch for each transistor, so you can run on one and note the differences when the second is off/on.:thumbsup:

theremart
01-15-2008, 10:59 PM
All I can say is wow. She has a collection of SSG's that will not quit Very well crafted, and very down to earth in the explanations. The drawings are awesome.

Erwin's Work Shop (http://www.fight-4-truth.com/Work%20Shop.html)

ren
01-16-2008, 02:07 AM
lol. I believe Erwin is a male, but your right about his collection. I learnt alot about this tech from this page, I recommend it to anyone, especially the visual drawings of the circuits.

theremart
01-18-2008, 02:26 AM
lol. I believe Erwin is a male, but your right about his collection. I learnt alot about this tech from this page, I recommend it to anyone, especially the visual drawings of the circuits.

My appologies :embarrassed:

ren
01-18-2008, 08:13 AM
All good. Hey I could be wrong, maybe Erwin is a female??????:D

elias
01-19-2008, 02:54 PM
Hi everyone,

My tri-coiler SSG is almost complete, so I thought to share a photo of it. I ran it with two coils, because somehow four of my transistors were blown out. Some the 2n3055s were different in labeling and those were the most vulnerable ones! I saw some Toshiba 2N3055 transistors with higher price, maybe I'll try those ones. Any one has any recommendation for transistors? I have not competed the magnets on the wheel, and I'll add 6 more double stacked magnets on it, also I intend to add three more tri-filar coils with #18 wire to it. My Battery is also unable to power this with three coils, so I want to buy a good battery with more amp-hours. I have to say that running it with 18 volts was really great, it produces significant amount of radiant energy and torque. Any suggestions?

Elias

Jetijs
01-19-2008, 03:51 PM
Elias, your setup looks very good. You have three big coils, how much $ did you spent on that? I hope it will perform well for you :thumbsup:

elias
01-19-2008, 04:32 PM
Elias, your setup looks very good. You have three big coils, how much $ did you spent on that? I hope it will perform well for you :thumbsup:

The three coils cost me about 100$. Each of them weighs about 2kg. Thanks for your encouragement. :cheers:

theremart
01-19-2008, 04:37 PM
Someone figured out how to make a generator hookup with the SSG

They are getting 18V from their generator ( not fully tuned yet! )

This is my next project!!!!!!

YouTube - MUST SEE!!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOl-W-BMPnA)

He shows step by step how do it.:dance:

Aaron
01-19-2008, 07:22 PM
Elias,

Motor looks great!

MJ21194 are great transistors for these circuits.

theremart
01-19-2008, 07:55 PM
Since I have been using my zener diodes, I have been able to use these cheaper transistors.


I like the D44VH10, 80 volt, good for switching up to 5 Amps, Gain falls to zero at about 50 MHz. Lots of current gain (I have run these with 2k to 4k base resistors).
Designed as a high speed switching transistor for switch mode power supplies.
http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/D44VH-D.PDF

I have been using these and they Rock. But be sure to protect them with the zener modification mentioned earlier.


P.S.

Today I found a new trick. Simply hook another coil in series with your standard power coil. I gained higher RPM at the same voltage and amps!

I did this before with my reed switch, but it just hit me today to try this.

Cheers!:whistle:

elias
01-19-2008, 08:54 PM
Today I found a new trick. Simply hook another coil in series with your standard power coil. I gained higher RPM at the same voltage and amps!

I did this before with my reed switch, but it just hit me today to try this.

Cheers!:whistle:

Thank you all for the transistor recommendations,

Theremart,

I don't know if Bedini recommends doing this, because wiring coils in series will increase the impedance. But I know that Tesla had some special coils, which were actually bifliar coils hooked up in series. These coils tend to have 2 times more energy. I wonder why Bedini hasn't recommended building these types of coils for his machines? For example, instead wiring a single 900 turn, wiring bifilar 450 turns and putting those to filars in series. Maybe these types of designs can't deliver large amount of Radiant energy and it gets wasted by discharging into each other, but only a thought.

If I get convinced that using Tesla type wiring for coils is a benefit to these machines, I'll wind my new coils like that. :)

Elias

Aaron
01-19-2008, 09:23 PM
I have done that with the coils.
You can just wind them like normal and then just hook in series
like you mention...like Tesla pancake bifilar coil style.

ren
01-20-2008, 12:27 AM
Elias good work on your setup. Let us know how it performs. Remember you can hook up some of those 7 amp hours in parallel to effectively make a larger bank of amp hours if you cant afford a larger battery just yet. I think that some of bedinis designs actually have the two coils in series. There may be some advantages to this for some designs. The mj is an excellent transistor for a higher am draw setup. You can also get the equivalent in a to3 (think 2n3055 housing) case. These are the mj15022 i think. The mjs are a bit pricey so make sure you get your circuit down pat. Also check out this page before you buy some Counterfeit Transistors (http://sound.westhost.com/fake/counterfeit-p3.htm)

A comment on the sg generator. Looks like good work, but make sure you understand a few things here. Firstly the generator is producing ac currents (according to what he says) and it isnt good practise to compare ac output to dc input. Secondly as far as I can tell he doesnt have a load on the generator, which is also misleading. I didnt watch the entire video however, maybe I missed something. I have had a single pickup coil generate up to 20 volts off a spinning sg, but as soon as you place a load (i.e. try to use that power from the pickup coil) on it it will drag your system down, often slowing it to a stop. I think this is why the pickup coil is dumped into a cap and the main circuit is disconnected while the cap is dumped back into the run battery in some of Bedinis designs. It isolates the source from the collected output at all times, keeping it a true open loop system.

In saying this, I can see alot of potential in this gents particular config. The long rotor has plenty of room for more drive coils and if magnets are placed out of phase on different coils then it will deliver alot more torque. It reminds me of one of Johns machines, the one on eftv2 next to his 20 pole monster.

His alternator/pickup design looks reasonable too. For those that have seen the plans to Bedinis free energy generator you can probably see the similarities in design. If he was to pulse the output back across his run battery I bet he would get some interesting results. Would take alot of tinkering, but from the look of his benchtop, tinkering is something he is not afraid to do:)

gmeat
01-20-2008, 01:28 AM
Hi Everyone,


Has anyone tried to make a Bedini SSG and couple it with a Muller type generator?.It seems to me this might be a good concept.The way I see it if you take a large rotor say about 20" diameter and have your SSG coils set up on the O.D. and the Muller coils somewhere towards the inner to middle part of the rotor it would seem that the Bedini coils would have a mechanical advantage over the Muller coils.Also,If you add a flywheel that is smaller in circumference meaning more of its mass towards the center of the rotor or maybe it would work better with the flywheel mass towards the outside of the rotor?. Does'nt that also make it even more of a mechanical advantage for the O.D. coils.Anyone have any thoughts on this or know if its already been tried (other than JB).

-gmeat

ren
01-20-2008, 02:02 AM
G, I would like to try this one day, particulary the arrangement of the coils and the magnets. I think the imbalance of the seven coils versus the eight magnets would help to reduce cogging significantly. Bill also used amorphus (typo?) metal in his cores for maximum current capture for minimal cogging. Also remember that each coil was pulsed around the circuit will all others were capturing to aid the rotation.

Theres alot to be said for an efficient alternator generator design, perhaps we should get in touch with the windmill groups to pick their brains....

elias
01-20-2008, 05:59 AM
Hi

Ren, Thanks for your input, The fake transistor page is interesting.
I had experimented with generating electricity with my smaller SSG before. The most interesting thing I realized is the fact that charging small capacitors don't drag the rotor so much. But if you want to charge a big one like 10,000uF for example, at first it drags the rotor down and as it gets up in voltage, it drags less until it reaches its optimum point which drags no more. I verified bringing the generator coil slowly near the wheel while the capacitor charges up, in this case it didn't drag the rotor at all, because as the capacitor charges the coil gets nearer, and it goes up until it reaches its nearest point to the rotor. But, I still prefer the coil pulsing method as in the self-runner. Because designing such a system which moves its coils as the wheel rotates is cumbersome.

Elias

chityaman
01-20-2008, 07:26 AM
I hope this doesn't seem to dumb a question. What if you used something like a 555 timer chip on the bedini circuit to pulse the coil and then collect the radiant energy as you do now, Couldn't you loose the wheel all together then? I am still learning about these things so I hope that question doesn't offend anyone.

Thanks,

George Mielcarek

Aaron
01-20-2008, 08:05 AM
Hi George,

That is an excellent deduction! :thumbsup: Check the threads for "solid state" Bedini circuits or "oscillators." You actually don't need a 555 circuit for it as they can find their own frequency.

chityaman
01-20-2008, 08:57 AM
Thank you so much for pointing me in that direction. :notworthy: Now I can use all the wheels and bearings I was going to use for a Bedini wheel and use it to tinker on my attraction motor.

George

elias
01-20-2008, 06:13 PM
These are the mj15022 i think. The mjs are a bit pricey so make sure you get your circuit down pat.

Thanks for the transistor, it works great, and seems to have a faster switching time, I couldn't find MJ21194 in the market, but MJ15022 was found at about 2.5$ I bought six of them and unfortunately due to a mistake I semi-burnt three of them I suppose :wall:. Now I see that the neon is unable to protect these transistors even though these are able to operate around 200 volts, but when using a 24 volt system you have no hope but burn them all. So I certainly recommend the Zener protection for everyone, unless you want to spend $ for transistors!! :rofl: I have decided to switch all of them to MJ15022 as they work wonderfully.

ren
01-20-2008, 08:51 PM
glad to hear it Elias! Another thing you can do to protect your circuit it wire the neon in with a 3k or 4k resistor on one of its legs too. This will help absorb some of the voltage and reduce the stress the neon handles. The neon can only absorb so much.

I saw a 250volt flash tube the other day, designed for strobe lights, right next to the neon container at the store. I wonder how one of them would go? Dance party!:dance:

Sephiroth
01-21-2008, 07:40 PM
this is interesting... and nice! :D

I recently rewired my circuit and amp draw has practically halfed!

my original circuit I designed to keep it as compact as possible including keeping all the transistors as close as possible (which I thought would improve performance)

as shown:

http://www.peterbug.plus.com/oldcircuit.jpg

You see the little huddle in the bottom left corner?

well the amp draw on that was always between 800 - 950 ma (the very lowest it would run at top speed was 750 ma if I fiddled with the pot after it reached top speed)

but seeing as how nearly all other models have their transistors closer to their coils I thought I'd do something different:

http://www.peterbug.plus.com/newcircuit.jpg

the two wires around the circumferance are the primary negative and the secondary positive

and the triangle in the centre is the trigger

both the wires ends around the perimeter are connected so that they are basically a hoop.

anyway... not sure why but the amp draw is now a steady 460 ma... that is a solid sweet spot and no fiddling with the pot can improve that... it is spinning at its highest speed and drawing the lowest amps. adjusting the pot either way increases amps and lowers rpm.

can't explain why this geometry has such an effect...



and a brief update on my batteries...

the gel cell appears to be in mint condition after a single super charge.

the two lead acids are a different story...

tired super charging them once (same as the gel cell) but they didn't hold the charge very well under load...

so seriously super charged those two again. Basically left them boiling for about two days after they reached maximum voltage. but after leaving them for a little while thier resting voltages were 12.93 and 12.98 so still not in good condition.

so supercharged them for another 8 hours and their resting voltages went up to 13.27 and 13.38! this was pretty astonishing since they hadn't increased in voltage after the previous 2 days of charging... so it looks like a rest period (or perhaps a discharge period) is needed when conditioning old batteries....

just started cycling them on the motor to see how well they perform this time...

ren
01-21-2008, 10:48 PM
Nicely done Sep! It is interesting to note the positive effects of a well balanced circuit! Perhaps your circular pattern is similar to Jb's conductor bus bars for a reason related to geometry as much as impedance and flow benefits. The batteries sound like they will respond well to cycling.

Short vid I made today.

YouTube - JB's monopole sg (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ma8Mas50W44)

Sephiroth
01-21-2008, 11:04 PM
I didn't know that was you! Saw your dual and tri coilers... very impressive builds on all your motors!

but why do you call this one JB's monopole? Is it a replication of one of his particular models as opposed to just a replication of the circuit?

ren
01-21-2008, 11:29 PM
I just name it for what it is.It is John Bedinis design give or take the shortcomings of my own replication. I didnt mean it was HIS like I went and pinched it from the shop:rofl: I guess if I wanted to be more technical I would have refered to it as his trifilar slave configuration, although in the video it is firing on one winding only.

Sephiroth
01-22-2008, 12:37 AM
lol :D didnt think you pinched one!

Just wondering why you have gone back to a single coil set up when you have made more advanced models already... that window motor is a beauty!