View Full Version : To be happy! Ask yourself this question

10-29-2008, 07:40 PM
Have you ever asked yourself these questions?

"What is the purpose of L I F E?"

"My life?"

"Your Life?"

People everywhere are asking the questions; "What is the purpose of life?" and "Why are we here?" You might be amazed to learn, that Islam is providing clear and concise answers for these questions.

Most of those who reflect or think about life in any detail will consider and ponder these questions. There are as many different answers to these questions as there are people asking the questions. Some would hold that the purpose of life was to acquire wealth. Yet suppose they were to acquire millions of dollars,

what then would they claim is their purpose after doing so?

If the purpose of life is to become wealthy, there would be no purpose after becoming wealthy.

The fact is that when people approach their purpose here in this life from the aspect of only gaining wealth, after collecting the money they have dreamed of their lives loose purpose and then they live in restless tension suffering from a feeling of worthlessness.

How could wealth then be considered as the aim of life?

Could the acquisition of wealth guarantee happiness? Of course not.
When we hear of millionaires or members of their families committing suicide, how could we consider the purpose of life would be to gain great wealth?

A child of 5 years would obviously prefer a new toy to a deposit slip for a million dollars.
A teenager does not consider millions of dollars in the bank a substitute for movies, videos, pizza and hanging out with his friends.
A person in their 80s or 90s would never consider holding on to their wealth in place of spending it to hold on to or regain their health.

This proves that money is not the main purpose at all the stages of one's life.

Wealth can do little or nothing to bring happiness to one who is a disbeliever in Almighty God, because regardless of what he or she would gain in this life they would always live in fear of what will happen to them in the end. They would wonder what would become of them and how they would end up.

Wealth and its accumulation as a purpose would be doomed to a temporary success at best and in the end it would only spell out self destruction.

So, what is the use of wealth to a person without belief? He would always fear his end and would always be skeptical of everything. He may gain a great material wealth but he would only lose himself in the end.

Worship of the One True Almighty God of the Universe [Allah in Arabic] as a primary goal or aim in life provides a believer with everything he needs to succeed in both this life and the Next Life.

The word for total surrender, submission, obedience, purity of heart and peace in the Arabic language is "Islam". Those who try to perform these actions are called "MU-slims" [Islam-ERs].

To a Muslim the whole purpose of life is "ibadah" or worship to the One True Almighty God on Terms and under His Conditions.

The term "worship" to a Muslim includes any and all acts of obedience to Almighty Allah.

So his purpose of life is a standing purpose; Worshipping Allah by accepting Allah's Will over his own.
This act of ibadah [worshipping, thanking and extolling the Greatness Almighty Allah on His Terms and Conditions] is for the Muslim, throughout his whole life regardless of the stage. Whether he is a child, adolescent, adult or aged person, he is seeking after the Will of the Almighty in all these stages.
His life here on earth although short, is full of purpose and is totally meaningful within the complete framework of total submission [Islam].

Similarly, in the Next Life as well, his faith, intentions, attitudes and good deeds will all be weighed into his account as favorable putting him in high esteem with his Creator and Sustainer.

Because Islam teaches that this life is only a test or trial for the individual to show him his true nature it is only natural that he would accept death as not so much an ending to everything but more as a beginning of the final and lasting life in the Hereafter.

Before entering into either of the final lodging places i.e.; Heaven or Hell, there must needs be a Day of Judgment or showing of one's true self to make them aware of their own nature and thereby understand what they have sent on ahead during the life here on the earth.

Every person will be rewarded [or punished] according to their attitude, appreciation and efforts during this stay on earth. None will be asked about the actions and beliefs of others, nor will anyone be asked regarding that which he was unaware of or incapable of doing.

As the life here is considered as an examination for the individual, the death stage is considered as a resting period after the test. It could be easy for those who were faithful and dedicated or it could be grueling and horrible for the wicked.

Reward and punishment will be in direct proportion to each person and it is only Allah, alone who will be the Final Judge over us all.

So in the teachings of the True Surrender, Submission, Obedience, In Sincerity and Peace to the Almighty One God [Islam], the line of life and its purpose is logical, clear and simple:

The first life is a test

The life in the grave is a resting or waiting place before the Day of Judgment

The Day of Judgment brings about the clear understanding of what will now happen to the individual based on his own desires and actions

The Permanent or Afterlife will either be spend in luxurious splendor or miserable punishment .

Following this clear understanding of life, the Muslim's purpose is clear.

First of all, he has no doubt in his mind that:
he is only created by Allah
he is going to spend a period of time in this material world [called "Ad Dunyah" in Arabic]
he knows he will die
he knows he will spend time in the grave, either pleasant or difficult depending on his own choice of attitude and actions
he knows he will be resurrected for the Day of Judgment
he knows he will be judged according to the most fair of standards by Allah the Almighty, the All

Knowing he realizes his attitude and actions are going to come under very close scrutiny
he knows that this short life compared to the Eternal Life was in fact, only for a test

This life is very meaningful and purposeful to the Believing Muslim, as he realizes that it will determine is outcome and permanent position in the Next Life.

The Muslim's permanent purpose is to Surrender, Submit, Obey, in Purity and Peace to Allah the Almighty, carrying out His Orders and staying in some form of worship to Him as much as possible everyday.

This includes the orders of Allah in His Book, the Holy Quran and His final Messenger and Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him as follows:

Believing and declaring that "There is no god throughout all the Creation of Allah that is worthy of worship, all worship is due only to Allah, alone and He has no partners or helpers nor does He share His Lordship with any of His creations. And Muhammad, the son of Abdullah ibn Abdul Mutallib (1450 years ago) is the last and final messenger and servant of Almighty Allah, and is the culmination in a long line of prophets sent to mankind throughout man's history, including Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus Christ, may Almighty Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon them all."

Establishing the regular five times ritualistic prayer [salat] in the stated times (in the mosques for the men when possible)

Paying the charity tax [Zakat = about 2.5% of one's holdings - not his income, annually]

Fasting the month of Ramadhan [lunar calendar]

Pilgrimage to the House of Allah in Mecca at least once in the life of the person, provided he has the ability and the way is safe

For a disbeliever the purpose of this life is to collect and amass great wealth, money, power and position. Over indulging in eating, drinking, drugs, sex and gambling are a high priority to them. But all of this will not avail them anything good in the grave, on the Day of Judgment or in the Next Life. Eventually he will be faced with the question:
Now what?
What's Next?
Where am I going?
What will happen to me?

He will come to know. For sure he will come to know. But then what will the knowledge avail him?

Look how Islam solves the mystery of the puzzle of life. It provides the answers to the questions and concerns of the human beings on all levels and in every aspect. It is really quite simple.

The purpose of life as understood by the Believing Muslim can be simply stated in only two (2) words:
Obey God.

Our only purpose and salvation lie in these two words.

We must come to know our Creator, Sustainer and Ultimate Judge. We must learn to believe in Him, thank Him, praise Him, honor Him and worship Him, alone without any partners from His Creation. We must learn about His Messengers and Prophets, peace be upon them, and the message with which they were all sent. We must learn the Word of God as was directly revealed, preserved and memorized and passed down by memory throughout all the generations of Muslims to the present day.

Those who are in search of truth, having open minds and hearts will recognize this as a message in truth and sincerity. Open your heart and your mind now and ask the Almighty God of the Universe [Allah] to guide you now to His True Way. And then be ready to accept your true purpose in life.

Purpose of Life Islam (http://www.islamtomorrow.com/purpose.htm)

11-02-2008, 10:26 PM
Not certain how the secrets of happiness are linked to wealth in your opener...

The secrets of Islam remain a secret to most of the world since no one seems to ever get a copy of the Islam book to examine readily.

There are no secrets to the Bible and it is readily available thru the world except were repressed by Islamists.

Its Biblical principals are love and forgiveness. From the son of God Jesus who sharing Gods power died for the forgiveness of our sin. The trinity of this belief includes the Holy Spirit who is the sender/messenger of love.

For information or a free copy of God Holy word...


"My word will not return void" Isiah 55:11

11-03-2008, 05:59 AM
There are no secrets to the Bible and it is readily available thru the world except were repressed by Islamists.

Dear wpage

I agree that Islam's REAL teachings has remained a secret to most of the people, but here is a verse from Quran (2:4):

And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.

Muslims must accept the revelations before Quran to be a true Muslim (e.g Bible, Torah) and must be kind to everyone.

Well, the truth is one and the interpretations are many! :)

With Gratitude

11-03-2008, 06:14 AM
Hi Ahmad,

First of all I appreciate your info about Islam so much, but Islam has got so far from where it was supposed to be. Islam means surrendering to the will of God. And despite the fact that Islam has many many names for God, to indicate the fact that God is not a word, but Muslims see God in the word "Allah" mostly. I don't mean to start any discussion about Islam at all. My only purpose for posting this is to make us ponder more about Islam and Quran as pondering is one of the main principles of Islam, why not ponder on the Islam and Quran itself. :) Islam has many great teachings which can assist one in his/her spiritual evolution, but most of it is interpreted upside down and mostly it results in spiritual devolution, sorry, but it is only my opinion.

The most inconsistent behavior seen in Islam is the fact that we must learn to love and forgive all, must we not, but Muslims still can not accept non-Muslims easily because they believe that Islam is the only perfect truth, despite the fact that Mohammad loved everyone according to the teachings of Islam.

I interpret Islam as surrendering to the will of God which is love, which means a Muslim must be pure unconditional love which leads to ultimate happiness, so why make things complicated? :)

With much Gratitude for sharing your view on Islam

11-04-2008, 07:07 AM
Hi Ahmad.

This includes the orders of Allah in His Book, the Holy Quran and His final Messenger and Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him as follows:

Believing and declaring that "There is no god throughout all the Creation of Allah that is worthy of worship, all worship is due only to Allah, alone and He has no partners or helpers nor does He share His Lordship with any of His creations. And Muhammad, the son of Abdullah ibn Abdul Mutallib (1450 years ago) is the last and final messenger and servant of Almighty Allah, and is the culmination in a long line of prophets sent to mankind throughout man's history, including Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus Christ, may Almighty Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon them all."

You might want to check out the peaceful prophet Muhammad a little closer;

Muhammad as a general - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_as_a_general#History)

The fate of the Banu Qurayza is particularly interesting:

bn Ishaq describes the killing of the Banu Qurayza men as follows:
“ Then they surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the apostle they asked Ka`b what he thought would be done with them. He replied, 'Will you never understand? Don't you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!' This went on until the apostle made an end of them. Huyayy was brought out wearing a flowered robe in which he had made holes about the size of the finger-tips in every part so that it should not be taken from him as spoil, with his hands bound to his neck by a rope. When he saw the apostle he said, 'By God, I do not blame myself for opposing you, but he who forsakes God will be forsaken.' Then he went to the men and said, 'God's command is right. A book and a decree, and massacre have been written against the Sons of Israel.' Then he sat down and his head was struck off.[38][52][39]

The women and children were sold into slavery or retained as slaves by Muhammad and his men.

These were only part of the estimated 1200-1500 casualties during his campaigns, a significant number considering the size of the population of the area at that time.

By contrast Jesus never was a general, never had an army, never led or condoned war or violence, surrendered himself peacefully (even telling Peter to put up his sword when he tried to keep the soldiers from taking him (Jesus) and healed the wound Peter had caused) knowing full well he would be be severely abused and then crucified.

Indeed, he asked God the Father to forgive them that crucified him.

So which of them should be considered the true man of peace? In my opinion this is the best answer:

"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you; not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid." Jesus' words in John 14:17.

As to God having no partners and He alone being worthy of worship consider this:
Matt. 16:16- "Simon Peter replied "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God....Blessed are you Simon bar-Jonah, for men have not revealed this to you, but My Father Who is in Heaven."
John 5:18-"This made the Jews more determined than ever to kill Him; because He was not only breaking the Sabbath, but He actually was speaking of God as his own Father, making Himself equal with God."
John 17:5-"And now, Father, glorify Me along with Yourself and restore Me to such majesty and honor in your presence as I had with you before the world existed."
If we are to honor the teachings of the Torah, the Bible, and Jesus as Muhammad said, how can we ignore these?


11-08-2008, 08:56 PM
hi wpage

Who was Jesus?

By - Yusuf Estes

Who Was Jesus - peace be upon him

called "Essa" in Arabic

Islam honors all the prophets who were sent to mankind. Muslims respect all prophets in general, but Jesus in particular, because he was one of the prophets who foretold the coming of Muhammad. Muslims, too, await the second coming of Jesus. They consider him one of the greatest of Allah's prophets to mankind. A Muslim does not refer to him simply as "Jesus," but normally adds the phrase "peace be upon him" as a sign of respect.

No other religion in the world respects and dignifies Jesus as Islam does. The Quran confirms his virgin birth (a chapter of the Quran is entitled "Mary"), and Mary is considered to have been one of the purest women in all creation. The Quran describes Jesus' birth as follows:

"Behold!' the Angel said, God has chosen you, and purified you, and chosen you above the women of all nations. Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him, whose name shall be the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, honored in this world and in the Hereafter, and one of those brought near to God. He shall speak to the people from his cradle and in maturity, and he shall be of the righteous. She said: "My Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me?' He said: "Even so; God creates what He will. When He decrees a thing, He says to it, 'Be!' and it is." [3:42-47]

Muslims believe that Jesus was born immaculately, and through the same power which had brought Eve to life and Adam into being without a father or a mother.

"Truly, the likeness of Jesus with God is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, and then said to him, 'Be!' and he was." [3:59]

During his prophetic mission, Jesus performed many miracles. The Quran tells us that he said:

"I have come to you with a sign from your Lord: I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it and it becomes a bird by God's leave. And I heal the blind, and the lepers, and I raise the dead by God's leave." [3:49]

Muhammad and Jesus, as well as the other prophets, were sent to confirm the belief in one God. This is referred to in the Quran where Jesus is reported as saying that he came:

"To attest the law which was before me, and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden you; I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear God and obey me." [3:50]

Prophet Muhammad emphasized the importance of Jesus by saying: "Whoever believes there is no god but Allah, alone without partner, that Muhammad is His messenger, that Jesus is a servant and messenger of God, His word breathed into Mary and a spirit emanating from Him, and that Paradise and Hell are true, shall be received by God into Heaven.

Son of Who? (http://www.islamcode.com/sonofwho.html)

Bible - A Closer Look (http://www.islamcode.com/BibleACloserLook.html)

Christianity vs Islam (http://www.islamcode.com/christianityvsislam.html)

Audio lectures (http://www.islamcode.com/AudioLectures.html)

Video lectures (http://www.islamcode.com/VideoLectures.html)

Reference :

Islam Cracks The Code - Da Vinci (http://www.islamcode.com/)

[B]If you want to look forward to translate the Holy Qur'an


Quran Explorer (http://www.quranexplorer.com/Quran/Default.aspx)

11-08-2008, 09:15 PM
Thank you elias

Muhammad ...An extraordinary tolerance model


Have you ever been offended?

Have you ever felt persecution or oppression?

Tell me - if you have - how do feel about your oppressor and those who offend you?

Tell me what you are to do, if you have the chance to take revenge?

While you think about the answer, I will tell you a story. 1400 years ago, an Arab man started his call to Allah, the Lord of this universe. He was sent by Allah to lead atheists to monotheism, but really, it was a very hard mission.

Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was faced with all kinds of harm and persecution even from his relatives.

His uncle Abu Lahab and his wife Umm Jameel came on the top of the list. They used to insult him and arouse suspicions about the honesty of his call. Moreover, Umm Jameel used to throw thorns in his way.

The atheists of Quraish used to throw garbage on his body while he was praying. The prophet’s daughter Fatema usually removed this garbage.

They started to torture his weak followers using all possible techniques! They put bani Hashim and bani Abd El- Mottalib under siege and decided to boycott them totally.

The prophet and his followers were about to starve.

The atheists of Quraish also, claimed that he was no more than a mad man, a magician or a poet who had a great influence on those who listened to him.

Regardless of all of this, he used to pray for them and ask Allah to forgive them and lead them to the right path, as they did not know it!

Moreover, when prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, entered Mecca and the atheists surrendered almost without any fight, they were captivated. Imagine what he did…he set them free and did not think of revenge for what they did in the past!

This is the real tolerant face of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.

The Jewish man

Prophet Muhammad had a Jewish neighbour who used to throw garbage and dead animals in his way every day when he came out of his house. This man was absent for a while. Prophet Muhammad decided to pass by his house and ask about him. He found him ill and accordingly paid him a visit!

Face to face with Hend!

After he returned to Mecca victoriously, men and women came to pledge him. Hend the daughter of O’tba was among those women, but she was disguised. She was afraid of the prophet’s revenge for what she did after Ohod. She had taken Hamza’s liver (Hamza is the prophet’s uncle) out of his dead body and chewed it! In addition, she, along with others, cut parts of the Muslim martyrs’ bodies and used them as earrings and accessories!

For all of this and for having a long history of enmity with the prophet and his followers, she expected that if he recognized her, he would kill her. The prophet actually, recognized her from her speech, but he smiled and forgave her instead!

They were afraid of Omar!

A number of women gathered and agreed to meet prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. They talked to him and argued with loud voices, but when Omar ibn Al-Khattab came, they hided from him. The prophet laughed. Omar asked him about the reason why he did, he told him what had been going on before his arrival. Omar got angry with those women and blamed them. They told him that he was much harsher than the prophet was, that was why they were not afraid of the prophet, but were afraid from Omar!

Who protects you from me?

Aouf ibn Al-Hareth fought against Muslims. He surprised everyone when he reached the prophet, peace be upon him, and threatened him with his sword asking him: “who protects you from me?” the prophet answered “Allah.” The sword fell from Aouf’s hand and the prophet took it. It was his turn to ask Aouf: “who protects you from me?” Aouf asked him for forgiveness. The prophet asked if he would embrace Islam, Aouf answered that he would not, but he would not fight Muslims after then. The prophet set him free. When Aouf returned to his people, he told them that he came to them after meeting the best man on earth!

Isn’t he a human being?!

A funeral passed by the prophet and some of his companions. He stood in his place and overawed. His companions got surprised, as it was the funeral of a Jew.

The prophet asked: “isn’t he a human being?!”

These are a few examples of Prophet Muhammad’s tolerance. His life was full of tolerant stands. May Allah send His peace and blessings on him.

By : Amira Sha’rawy.

Muhammad ...An extraordinary tolerance model (http://www.55a.net/firas/english/?page=show_det&id=236&select_page=72)

11-08-2008, 09:27 PM

I do not want to mention the Inquisition

The killing of children, women and men

rape children, women and men in Iraq,

and all the ugly things that worked

But listen to this story

Why don't you think

Why do you escape from Allah?

By Tarek Abo AbdAllah

Revised by Magdy Abd Al-shafy

Translated by: Amira Sha’rawy.

(Hatem al-ta’ay), one of the generous Arabs in pre-Islam time , had a Christian son whose name was (Oday). (Oday) .

He had a beautiful story. Let's listen to him tell the story himself .

He said “No Arab hated the prophet, may Allah send His peace and blessings on him, more than I did when I first heard about him. I was an honourable devoted Christian and a leader among my natives. I told a servant of mine who was the shepherd of my camels: “prepare some humbled, fat camels for me, so that ,if Muhammad’s army invades this country, i would take them on escape .” One morning he came to me and said: “what you were to do if Muhammad’s horses came, do itnow as I have seen flags and when I asked about them , I was informed that these are Muhammad’s army.”

I said: “get me my camels.” I took my wife and son on it and intended to join my fellow Christians in Damascus, but I left one of Hatem’s daughters ( his sister ) behind in the city. When I reached Damascus, I stayed there. The horses of the prophet, may Allah send His peace and blessings on him, reached Hatem’s daughter and she was introduced to the prophet, may Allah send His peace and blessings on him, among the captives of (tay’a).

The prophet was informed of my escape to Damascus . when he passed by my sister , she said: “O messenger of Allah, the father is dead and bother is absent and I am an old woman and incapable of any service. Bestow your favor upon me, may Allah bestow His upon you.” He asked: “who is your brother?” she said: “Oday, the son of Hatem.” He said: “this who escaped from Allah and His messenger??” she repeated this petition for three days. She said: he eventually vouchsafed .” She asked to be carried; he ordered that for her and gave her clothing and money.

She came to me and said: “you did something that your father would not do; anyway go to him whether you are desirous or afraid, as “so many people” came to him and took much from him Oday said: “so, I went to him while he was sitting in the mosque.” People said: “this is Oday the son of Hatem.” I went there with his companion helpless without any warrant to help me , the prophet took me by hand , the prophet was quoted saying " I implore God to guide O'day ": “I hope that Allah will put his hand in mine.” He stood and came to me then I met a woman carrying a child . They said to him: we need something from you. He went with them till he fulfilled their need then took me by my hand to his house. There, a pillow was given to him. He sat down on it and I sat in front of him. He thanked Allah and praised Him then said: “what makes you escape? Is it " that there is no god but Allah? Do you know any other god?” I said: No. He talked for a while then said: “is it saying that Allah is the greatest (Allahu Akbar)? Do you know anything greater than Allah?” I said: No" . he said: “then, the Jews have earned anger and the Christians are astray.” I said: “then, I am an orthodox Muslim.” So, I saw a smile of happiness on his face.

And now imagine, man, that you are sitting in Oday’s place in front of the prophet, may Allah send His peace and blessings on him, and he asked you the same question : why do you escape from Allah….what will be your situation? Do you escape saying that there is no god but Allah…..then, do you know another god?

Does saying that Allah is the greatest makes you escape…then, do you know anything that is greater than Allah?

Do you escape from saying that all praise is to Allah, the Lord of all that exists, or saying glorified is my God the most high and glorified is my God the most great….then, do you know anyone who is absolutely praised except Allah and do you know anyone greater or higher?

Does saying that Allah is the one, the self-sufficient whom all creatures need, and that He did not beget nor was He begotten and there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him, make you escape? Do you know a father, a mother, a son or a wife for Allah? And do you know anyone who people may resort to in order to fulfill their needs except Allah? Is it believing that nothing is like Allah, that

He is the Irresistible (Supreme) above His slaves and He is able to do all things that make you escape? Then do you know anyone who is equal or similar to Allah? Do you know anyone whose power exceeds that of Allah? And can human beings hurt Allah the Almighty, while He is encompassing and dominating them?

Does believing that Allah saved the Christ from the Jews’ plot and raised him to heaven, after you used to believe that He let him dieon the cross, humble and insulted, annoy you?

Or, do you escape from believing that the Christ healed the blind and the lepers and brought forth the dead all by Allah’s permission and not his own power….did the Christ have anything to do for himself when he was just an embryo in his mother’s uterus? Do you escape believing that the Christ came with the bible, that Allah revealed to him instead of believing in various bibles written by anonymous people who did not see the Christ, while none of these bibles is attributed to the Christ??

Does believing that the Christ is Allah’s word and a spirit created by Him and that he is one of the messengers of strong will and his mother is a believer in Allah’s words and books that Allah has chosen over all the women of mankind and jinn, make you escape? Then, were the Christ and his mother different from this? Does saying that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah make you escape ?..So, who was Muhammad if he was not the messenger of Allah??

Does knowing that Allah forgave Adam’s sin when he regretted it and turned in repentance and that Allah forgives all sins, make you escape? Then, do you know anyone who forgives sins except Allah? Is it asking Allah for forgiveness after you used to ask the pastor for it on the chair of recognition that make you escape? Does belonging to a religion that makes no mediators between you and Allah and does not allow the dominance of anyone on your spiritual life so that he forgives you if he wants or deprives you from entering Heaven if he wants -as the church does- make you escape? Do you think that Allah created you by Himself to make the determination of your fate and the forgiveness of your sins in the hands of anyone else but Him? Does believing that children are born free (acquitted) from any sin, instead of thinking that they are born disgraced in the sin of their father, Adam (peace be upon him), make you escape? Do you escape from a religion that honored woman and gave her the right to worship, to receive education, to ask questions and use her own money and the right to choose her husband and to decide to get divorced if she did not bear him and became afraid of disobeying Allah’s orders concerning him. A religion that ordered the husband to treat his wife well and considered the best one among people, the best in treating his wife and promised this who have a daughter to enter the Heaven if he honored her and treated her well? Do you escape this religion to another religion that considers woman the source of every sin and asserts that she was created for man’s sake? Do you escape to a religion that deprived her from divorce and from speaking in the church, as Paul stated in his message to Corinthians? A religion that considers everything that she touches during menses impure, as stated in the chapter of Leviticus?

Does following the religion of Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Al-Assbat (the offspring of Jacob’s sons), Moses and Jesus make you escape? Does saying that Noah, David, Lot and Jacob were infallible prophets that Allah chose over all His creatures and that they reached the highest ethical level make you escape? Does saying that they are not as they are said to be in the Old Testament where we read that Noah took off his clothes and drank wine, David had sex with the wife of one of his leaders then he sent this leader to war so that he might die and give him the chance to marry her , Lot had sex with his two daughters and they became pregnant and Jacob fought with God and beat him, make you escape?

Don’t you like to belong to a religion that sanctifies chastity , purity and loyalty and orders its adherents to be honest even with children and to treat everyone well even animals?

Do you hate to espouse a religion that makes shyness one of its virtues and cleanness one of its rituals?

Doesn’t it make you happy that you belong to a religion that meets the needs of the body as well as the needs of the soul?

Don’t you want to belong to a religion that makes every person responsible in front of Allah and makes all human beings equal? To a religion, that gives the prophet and his family more orders than it gives to others?

Doesn’t it make you happy to direct your heart to Heaven in your prayer after you used to look at a picture hanged on the wall of your house?

Don’t you like to make your prayer direction to the Ka’bah (Al-bait Al-haram) in Mecca, which Arabs and westerners agree that Abraham, peace be upon him, built, and to sanctify Jerusalem where the Christ arose and called for Allah?

Don’t you like to say in your prayer (You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help Guide us to the Straight Way* The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger nor of those who went astray ) then read Surat Mariam (the mother of the Christ) or Surat Al’Imran ( the grandfather of the Christ) or Surat Al-Ma’idah which Allah sent down to the Christ?

Don’t you like to kneel and prostrate to Allah who has created you?

Don’t you long to read in a book that deals with all aspects of life and addresses both your heart and mind?

Don’t you long for a book that answers all your questions? Don’t you like to have all your sins forgiven, as Islam erases all the past sins?

Don’t you like to gain Muhammad and the Christ instead of losing them both in addition to yourself?

Complete story (http://www.55a.net/firas/english/?page=show_det&id=184&select_page=105)

11-10-2008, 08:51 AM
Hi Ahmd.

I have no problem with the Inquisition. It was conducted under the auspices of the Catholic church. I am Baptist; Baptists were never a part of the Catholic church. We were around before the Catholic church was formed. We follow the teachings of Jesus, not any king, pope, or priest. Baptists were the principle target of the Inquisition as they would not follow the false doctrines they taught and were therefore branded as heretics and persecuted, even unto death. They also targeted European Jews, calling them "Christ Killers" and abused them severely. Just another example of powerful men abusing the name "Christian".

As to Iraq your claims are grossly exaggerated. Maybe you have been watching too much Al Jazeera t.v.? Unfortunately there are always civilian casualties in a war. Mistakes happen, including killing your own soldiers and your allies( known as friendly fire)The difference is the Americans try to minimize casualties, while the Muslim terrorists kill indiscriminately, even killing their own Muslim people. Also, consider the fate of the Iraqis under Saddam Hussein, his sons and their henchmen. They were raping, torturing, maiming and killing as estimated 100,000-150,000 of their own countrymen per year, invading Kuwait and warring with Iran for 8 years. Any civilian casualties that the Americans caused during the war pales by comparison.

The Iraqi people on the whole want the U.S. to stay until a stable government and army is in place to keep peace and defend their country.That is what they have told the returning troops I talk to and I hear the same from several Iraqi people I know.If the various factions would lay down their arms, stop killing each other and the Americans, blowing up power plants, water works and oil pipelines as fast as they are repaired, form a government and work out their problems, America would gladly leave. This is not a holy war to us.The Muslim terrorists attacked us, killing many Muslims in the attack, and declared war on us. We are simply trying to stop them, re-build the country of Iraq (which was already in pitiful shape under Saddam) and leave them better off than before.

Having said that I suggest we limit our discussion to the original topic; Muhammad and his teachings (Islam) versus Jesus and his teachings (Christianity). There are far to many incidents in history done by supposed adherents of both religions which we would not agree with, so let's just stick to the doctrines as we see them.

I confess I had trouble following the story of Oday due to the manner in which it was written. The first thing I did notice was he was afraid of Muhammad who came riding in with his army and his captives.Why? As I said before, Jesus was never a general, never had an army, certainly never took captives, and no one was afraid of him.

I guess the point was that Oday abandoned his Christian faith and willingly became a Muslim after talking to Muhammad. This seems highly unlikely to me for Oday, as a Christian, would already know the truth.
In the words of Jesus: John 14:1"Let not you heart be troubled, ye believe in God, believe also in me."

John 1:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

John 14:16-18 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him; but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

If I were in Oday's place before Muhammad I would answer thus:
I believe there is one all-powerful God who created all things, visible and invisible, and all life, including man. I believe he has revealed himself to be a tri-partite being composed of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All are part of the one God and all parts are equal and co-existed from all eternity together.
Genesis 1:26 "And God said "Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness; and let him have dominion....".
Genesis 11:7- "Go to, let US go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech....".
John 5:18-"Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he had not only broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father making himself equal with God."
John 17:5-"And now, O Father, glorify thou me(Jesus) with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.".

I believe as Christians we are God's children, not his slaves to be dominated.

I believe Jesus died on the cross as was prophesied of old to provide the last, one and only sacrifice for the sins of men. No substitute would do for that mission. Men have only to accept that sacrifice as a free gift to be forgiven by God for the sin nature they inherited from Adam and their own personal sins and be re-united to God and their basic nature changed by him

Romans 3:23-28 " For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his rightousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; to declare at this time his rightousness; that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then?It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.".

Romans 6:23-"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

II Corinthians 5:17- "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.".

I already have a book that answers all my questions, but I am getting very tired, so I'll answer more of yours tomorrow.

Meanwhile answer one of mine. What do you mean by the words "escaping from Allah" that you used continually?

Al:peaceflag: :thumbsup:

11-10-2008, 09:24 AM
One of my best friends in high school was Muslim. In fact, growing up in a small community in a very rural area, she was the daughter of the only Muslim family for many many miles.

I was raised in an evangelical Christian home which included going to church every Sunday morning and evening and also Youth Group on Wednesday nights. I love Jesus. I Love God.

I was strongly encouraged by my youth group leaders to invite my Muslim friend to church because she was not "saved" and would burn in hell for eternity. I took this very seriously and spoke with my friend about God.

Much to my delight, I found that she had a very close and personal relationship with God just like I did, except that she didn't call him Jesus. But the relationship, the heart, the emotional connection that every Christian strives and becomes born again for was there.

At that moment, I realized that I wouldn't put God or Jesus in the box that Western civilization had taught me. I decided that if God wants to reach someone, He/She will. Names, religion, culture, upbringing has little to nothing to do with it.

God is so much bigger than our understanding. He is absolute Love. Whatever way we come to understand this love - through the Bible, through the Qu'ran or through whatever else is not the point - understanding, accepting, receiving, and reciprocating love is.

Seek love. Seek peace. The rest - all the questions, all the supposed answers - quickly fall by the wayside when we respond from Love and use the Love of God or Allah or the Universe as our source.

11-11-2008, 06:37 PM
Hi Ahmd.
Meanwhile answer one of mine. What do you mean by the words "escaping from Allah" that you used continually?


The word "Allah" is the perfect description of the "One God" of monotheism for Jews, Christians and Muslims!

God Allah - Does It Mean God? (http://www.godallah.com/)

As I told you earlier I do not want to talk about this

But to see these statistical

World War I: Christians against Christians killed (.015.000.000) Five ten million people dead

- Spearhead the Russian civil: Communists against Christians and Jews (10.000.000) Ten million people dead

- The Spanish civil war: Catholics against Catholics (1,200,000) Two hundred million people dead

- The Soviet Union during the Industrial Revolution: Communists against communists, Christians (20,000,000) twenty million people dead

- First India-China war: Christians against Hindus (1,200,000) Two hundred million people dead

- World War II: Christians against Christians and Buddhists (55,000,000) five and fifty million people dead .. And can be divided into the following

- U.S. bombing of Germany (600.000) Six hundred thousand people dead

- U.S. bombing of Romania (50.000) Fifty thousand people

- U.S. bombing of Japan (1,500,000) million five hundred thousand people dead

- Hitler's Germany World War II: Christians against Jews (4,000,000) four million people were killed in death camps and (1,300,000) million three hundred thousand Jews were killed genocide

In view of these figures analytical picture can be obtained that the following general

- That all Muslims killed by Muslims during the last hundred years in any of the 1907 - 2007 m is (1,400,000) million four hundred thousand Muslims

- Non-Muslims killed by Muslims, they (25.500) Twenty-five thousand five hundred people dead

- Muslims who were killed at the hands of non-Muslims (4,500,000) four million five hundred thousand people dead

- Non-Muslims and non-Muslims who were killed during the last hundred years are (250,000,000) quarter of a billion people

See also

American Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War)

I'm here for one thing only

Search for the truth


Why this man Convert to Islam???


I was born into a very strong Christian family in the Midwest. Our family and their ancestors not only built the churches and schools across this land, but actually were the same ones who came here in the first place. While I was still in elementary we relocated in Houston, Texas in 1949 (I'm old). We attended church regularly and I was baptized at the age of 12 in Pasadena, Texas. As a teenager, I wanted to visit other churches to learn more of their teachings and beliefs. The Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalians, Charismatic movements, Nazarene, Church of Christ, Church of God, Church of God in Christ, Full Gospel, Agape, Catholic, Presbyterian and many more. I developed quite a thirst for the "Gospel" or as we say; "Good News." My research into religion did not stop with Christianity. Not at all. Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, Metaphysics, native American beliefs were all a part of my studies. Just about the only one that I did not look into seriously was "Islam". Why? Good question.

Why Do Priests & Preachers Enter ISLAM? (http://www.55a.net/firas/english/?page=show_det&id=99&select_page=71)

11-11-2008, 07:29 PM
Hi Jamie

I love Jesus peace be upon him

And Every Muslim loves Jesus peace be upon him

And Jesus peace be upon him in the Quran

Interpretation of the Quran


In the day when Allah gathereth together the messengers, and saith: What was your response (from mankind)? they say: We have no knowledge. Lo! Thou, only Thou art the Knower of Things Hidden, (109) When Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the holy Spirit, so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how thou didst shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and didst blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and thou didst heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission; and how thou didst raise the dead by My permission; and how I restrained the Children of Israel from (harming) thee when thou camest unto them with clear proofs, and those of them who disbelieved exclaimed: This is naught else than evident magic; (110) And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee). (111) When the disciples said: O Jesus, son of Mary! Is thy Lord able to send down for us a table spread with food from heaven? He said: Observe your duty to Allah, if ye are true believers. (112) (They said : ) We wish to eat thereof, that we may satisfy our hearts and know that thou hast spoken truth to us, and that thereof we may be witnesses. (113) Jesus, son of Mary, said: O Allah, Lord of us! Send down for us a table spread with food from heaven, that it may be a feast for us, for the first of us and for the last of us, and a sign from Thee. Give us sustenance, for Thou art the Best of Sustainers. (114) Allah said: Lo! I send it down for you. And whoso disbelieveth of you afterward, him surely will I punish with a punishment wherewith I have not punished any of (My) creatures. (115) And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I had ever said it, then Thou wouldst have known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden? (116) I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things. (117) If Thou punish them, lo! they are Thy slaves, and if Thou forgive them (lo! they are Thy slaves). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Mighty, the Wise. (118) Allah saith: This is a day in which their truthfulness profiteth the truthful, for theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they are secure for ever, Allah taking pleasure in them and they in Him. That is the great triumph. (119) Unto Allah belongeth the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and whatsoever is therein, and He is Able to do all things. (120)

Jesus peace be upon him 25 times in Quran

Quran Explorer (http://www.quranexplorer.com/Quran/Default.aspx)

11-12-2008, 07:51 AM
Hi Ahmd.

I understand the word "Allah" meaning "God" in Islam. My question was and still is what is meant by the phrase "escape from Allah" which was used repeatedly?

As to your figures on deaths during wars they are so vague and twisted they are of little value in reaching any conclusion. Also, of the conflicts listed only three are recognizable; WWI, WWII, and the Spanish civil war, which Hitler had a large part in. They also seem to be unaware of the distinction between acts by various governments and acts by individuals or groups of individuals who claim to be adherents of a particular religion. For example you might consider the armed forces in Iraq to be a Christian army using those standards, but it is not. It is an army of coalition troops, mostly Americans, composed of Christians of various denominations from around the globe, atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, Deists, etc. Hardly a "Christian" army.

Another example is World War II. How any one could consider that a war of Christians against Christians and Christians against Jews is mind boggling. That war was started by Hitler(a Nazi) and Japan(primarily Buddhists, although they mainly worshiped their Emperor).Both were dictators in their own way . Hitler attacked all of Europe and Russia while Japan attacked China and the United States. They were linked together by treaties, and were joined by Italy. These three were known as The Axis Powers while the rest of the world who banded together against them were known as The Allies. The Axis Powers were responsible for horrible atrocities and the deaths of approximately 50-55 millions of people. Hitler in particular tried to eliminate Jewry and Christianity.

In the Nazi death camps the Jews comprised the majority of those killed, followed closely by the number of Christians they executed. The remainder were political prisoners, those they considered traitors or spies, etc. There was no "Christian against the Jews" element. Indeed many Christians in various countries protected Jews and hid them from the Nazis at the risk of their own lives. Please remember it was primarily the American's and the British who liberated them from these dictators as they are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

As to the bombing figures they have strangely omitted any mention of the hundreds of thousands of people killed by Japanese bombs in Asia and the other areas they attacked and by German bombs in Europe, England, and North Africa.

The allied bombings anywhere were carried out in the manner customary to that time. The enemy and their war machine were embedded in the civilian population. Unfortunately,in order to defeat them, that left no choice but to carpet-bomb large populated areas, especially since aerial bombing then was not very accurate and the enemy was hiding their manufacturing facilities anywhere they could to conceal them. The Germans had assembly lines for jet fighters set up on the forest floor hidden under the tree canopy and camouflage sheets.The Japanese had the same for fighters and one-man kamikaze (suicide) submarines.

I am not trying to condone warfare, only show the necessity for it sometimes.It is a terrible waste of human life and resources, but all people have a right to self defense. If the free world had submitted to Germany and Japan, where would we be today? Under the same type of sadistic regime as Iraq was under when ruled by the dictator Saddam Hussein and his henchmen. Incidentally, Saddam was head of the Bathist party in Iraq, which was started by the Nazis during WWII.

I think the "analytical figure" to be of no value as it is based on spurious and erroneous data also.

If you do not wish to talk about this stuff simply stop mentioning it. As I said I would rather discuss doctrines, not historical events. I'm sure we would disagree on the actions of Saladin and people like the Barbary pirates also due to our different views of their actions, so let's drop that kind of stuff.

You did not mention which Christian denomination you were raised in, but I notice you did not mention being born-again before your baptism. Some do not teach the need for salvation, then baptism, properly. According to Jesus conversion comes first, then baptism.

John 3:3-7 "Jesus answered and said unto him (Nicodemus) "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." Nicodemus said unto him, "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb and be born?" Jesus answered "Verily, Verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Acts !8:8"And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized." (As an interesting side note, I assume as chief of the synagogue Crispus believed in and worshiped God. Then why did he have need to believe in the Lord and be baptized?)

The order is repentance (asking Jesus to forgive your sins and accepting his death on the cross as payment for them), then Baptism as a sign of your obedience to God.(remember, Jesus himself was baptized as a sign of obedience to God the Father.) It is a picture of the death and burial of your old, sinful self, the washing away of your sins by His blood, and the new reborn man (you) being raised in newness of life as Christ was resurrected."

As Paul the Apostle said; "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Galatians 2:20)

This is why Christians were known as "Ana-baptists" for some 500 years as they required new Christians who joined their church to be baptized again if they had been baptized prior to their proper profession of faith in Christ. The term means "Re-baptizers".

As you were still thirsty for the Gospel I have to assume you were not saved because: "But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him an well of water springing up into everlasting life." (John 4:14)

As to worshiping God alone: "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." (John 3:36) and "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world: but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:17-18)

So if you and Islam honor and respect Jesus so much, how is it so much of his teaching is disregarded? Seems like a contradiction to me. After all, his life and teachings were well known in the area and He had been worshiped by Christians for 600 years prior to Muhammad being born. Also, the Jewish Torah, which Muhammad said to respect, prophesied of his coming as savior and "God with us" for thousands of years before his birth and He fulfilled over 350 specific prophecies pertaining to his birth, life, suffering, death on the cross, and resurrection. So what's not to believe about Him?

Well, it's been another long day, so goodbye for now. I'll try to get back to you and finish my answers from your previous post shortly.

With respect and in Christian love, Al:thumbsup:

11-12-2008, 08:04 PM
Jamie, I think so many people would be so much happier in life and this world would be a much better place if they had come to the realization that you had.

It seems to often that religion in the hands of humans becomes attached to "causes". It is not always about a relationship with God, but more about you becoming a cog in their religious machine.

If God is all knowing and all seeing than you should be able to worship him from anywhere, under any circumstances. You shouldn't have to pay money when you visit places of worship or send in monthly donations. You shouldn't have to join forces and participate in "wars" that are supposedly endorsed by God.

And what kind of God would you be worshiping if he was willing to cast the souls of people into eternal damnation who didn't happen to be praying in the right church, under the right religion?

What is the right religion?

Is it Catholic, Protestant, Judaism or Muslim? Scientology? Taoism? Christianity or Mormon? Seventh day Adventist or Buddhist?

Who has the right scriptures? The right ideology? Who will walk into the kingdom if heaven unabated as they have followed all the passages in the perfect book?

When you think of it in the scope of all the different Religions, can you really fault people for following the wrong one or reward them for following the right one?

I am in agreement with you on if you can find God, the religion you found him under probably doesn't matter as long as it is not teaching you to harm others.

Maybe the best religion is the one that asks nothing more from you then to believe in, cherish and love God, live as righteous as possible, and help others when you can.

One of my best friends in high school was Muslim. In fact, growing up in a small community in a very rural area, she was the daughter of the only Muslim family for many many miles.

I was raised in an evangelical Christian home which included going to church every Sunday morning and evening and also Youth Group on Wednesday nights. I love Jesus. I Love God.

I was strongly encouraged by my youth group leaders to invite my Muslim friend to church because she was not "saved" and would burn in hell for eternity. I took this very seriously and spoke with my friend about God.

Much to my delight, I found that she had a very close and personal relationship with God just like I did, except that she didn't call him Jesus. But the relationship, the heart, the emotional connection that every Christian strives and becomes born again for was there.

At that moment, I realized that I wouldn't put God or Jesus in the box that Western civilization had taught me. I decided that if God wants to reach someone, He/She will. Names, religion, culture, upbringing has little to nothing to do with it.

God is so much bigger than our understanding. He is absolute Love. Whatever way we come to understand this love - through the Bible, through the Qu'ran or through whatever else is not the point - understanding, accepting, receiving, and reciprocating love is.

Seek love. Seek peace. The rest - all the questions, all the supposed answers - quickly fall by the wayside when we respond from Love and use the Love of God or Allah or the Universe as our source.

11-12-2008, 11:09 PM
Hi Ahmd.
Meanwhile answer one of mine. What do you mean by the words "escaping from Allah" that you used continually?


any Why do not want to go back to God

By - Yusuf Estes

"Does Bible Say 'Jesus is God'?


[Mark 10:17-18 and Luke 18:18-19]

These verses are most indicative of Jesus' position and real nature. The verse in Mark reads:

"As he [Jesus] was setting out on a journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, 'Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?' Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."

If you analyze this verse in truth you will see that Jesus, quite simply, is not God. If he was, why then would he say "No one is good but God alone"? Jesus did not want to be called "good" because he was not God. That title, as Jesus admits, belongs to none but God.

This subject was actually a part of another book that I have been in the process of writing for a number of years. Considering the fact that I may never finish it, I have taken the liberty to put some of it down on paper and then compared it to findings of other Christian preachers who have come to Islam

Does the belief in Jesus, peace be upon him, as a "son of God" really make sense?

What exactly does 'son of God' mean?

Can true salvation from God, be the punishment of someone else who is innocent from any of these crimes, to be punished as though he were guilty?

Does God need someone to suffer severe punishment, even though they are trying, day after day.

Did Jesus, peace be upon him, tell the people to take him as a god, or to worship him?

Let us find the answer to these and other important questions about the nature of Jesus of Christianity and Islam.

"Look to the Books"

To begin, let us do a sample comparison of the teachings of the Holy Books of Almighty God.


"Say: Oh my servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins, for he is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
[Noble Quran 39:53]

"If anyone does evil or wrongs his own soul but afterwards seeks Allah�s forgiveness, he will find Allah Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
[Noble Quran 4:110]

"O you people! Adore your Guardian lord, who created you and those who came before you that you may become righteous."
[Noble Quran 2:21]

"You will not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written faith in their hearts and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which rivers flow, to well therein (forever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Felicity."
[Noble Quran 58:22]

New Testament of BIBLE

"Why do you call me good? answered Jesus, No-one is good but God alone!"
[Mark 6:10]

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but rather to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until Heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of the pen; will by any means disappear from the Law until all things are accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever keeps the commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven."
[Matthew 5:17]

"Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the Will of the Father who is in Heaven. Many will say to me on the day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"
[Matthew 7:21]

Some leaders claimed, This probably refers to the Mormons or somebody else. Don t worry about it.

"Gabriel says Jesus will be �called the son of God� and he would be �given the Throne of David� to �rule the House of Jacob forever.�"
[Mark 1:35]

"Enos was the son of Seth, and Seth was the son of Adam, and Adam was the son of God."
[Luke 3:36]

Note: Adam, not Jesus, is listed in this genealogy of Jesus as the son of God, not Jesus.

Later on, the priests are asking Jesus, peace be upon him, if he claims to be the son of God. He tells them in fact, it is they who are making this claim.

"You say that I am."

Gospel of John contains the greatest number of references to "son of God"

Jesus, speaking in the third person talked about the "Son of God" in [John 3:17 - John 5:24 - John 11:4 - John 11:27]

Martha, one of the followers, calls Jesus, peace be upon him, �The Messiah, the Son of God�

"The Messiah, the Son of God."
[John 20:31]

But no verse makes the exact statement "Jesus is the Son of God and as such he is divine or God."


"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah anything but the truth. Christ Jesus, the son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: It will be better for you: For Allah is One God: Glory be to Him: (Far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs."
[Noble Quran 4:171]

Notice in the Bible, the frequent link between the position of Jesus, peace be upon him, as the Messiah and the �son-ship.�

The term �son of god� can not, in itself, be considered enough to declare anything unique about Jesus, peace be upon him, as this term is used for many people throughout the Old and the New Testament.
See above:
[Luke 3:38]

Also, in
[Isaiah 62:8]
refers to the entire house of Israel as being, �Sons of God�.

Paul tells us about those who are led by the spirit:

"because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God."
[Romans 8:14]

The word "Messiah" is one that more particularly seems to represent the station of the person predicted to appear and lead the people to the victory over this world.

Oxford Companion of the Bible states Jews prior to Jesus, peace be upon him, hoped for a prophesied ruler, reigning with everlasting justice, peace and security for the "Sons of Israel."

"A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. The spirit of the Lord will be on him - the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of Knowledge and of the fear of the Lord - and he will delight in the fear of the Lord."
[Isaiah 11:1-5]

"The days are coming, declares the Lord, When I will fulfill the gracious promise I made to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah. In those days and at that time I will make a righteous Branch sprout from David�s line; he will do what is just and right in the land. In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will live in safety. This is the name by which it will be called: The Lord Our Righteousness. For this is what the Lord says: David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel, nor will the priests, who are Levites, ever fail to have a man to stand before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offering and to present sacrifices."
[Jeremiah 33:14-20]

"My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. The will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children�s children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. I will make a covenant of peace with them, it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. Then the nations will know that I the Lord make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever."
[Ezekiel 37:24-28]

"The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the rules staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his."
[Genesis 49:10]

"I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near. A star will come out of Jacob; a scepter will rise out of Israel. He will crush the foreheads of Moab, the skulls of all the sons of Sheth. Edom will be conquered; Seir, his enemy, will conquered, but Israel will grow strong. A ruler will come out of Jacob and destroy the survivors of the city."
[Numbers 24:17]

God Incarnate? NOT HERE


Nathan the prophet (son of Solomon) said:

"The Lord declares to you that the Lord Himself will establish a house for you: When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his father and he will be my son."

(New Testament book of Hebrews stops here)

Samuel continues:

"When he does wrong, I will punish him with the rod of men, with floggings inflicted by men. But my love will never be taken away from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you."
[2 Samuel 7:12-15]

"You are my Son; today I have begotten you."
[Hebrews 1:5]

Does this support the case the doctrine that Jesus, peace be upon him, is the "begotten Son of God?"

Old Testament BIBLE

David is stating what God has proclaimed regarding David�s relationship to God

"I will proclaim the decree of the Lord: he said to me, you are my Son; this day have I begotten you."
[Psalms 2:7]

Note: The New International Version says the verse could be translated either as "become your Father" or as "begotten you" into English or Greek.

New Testament BIBLE

"He will be called the Son of God."
[Mark 1:35]

Note: This does not state he "is" the son, but rather, he will be "called" the son of God.

Or was he the "one anointed to preach Good News to the poor." prophesied by Isaiah, and the Messiah proclaimed by Gabriel, the followers of Jesus, peace be upon him, Jesus, himself and the remained of the New Testament, he evidently would not be God.

New Testament BIBLE

read more

Does the belief in Jesus, peace be upon him, as a "son of God" really make sense? (http://www.bibleislam.com/son_of_who.php)

11-13-2008, 10:54 AM
Hi again Ahmd.

I think from the way you word your answers we may have a bit of a language barrier, but I think you are saying "escaping from God" means one who is out of touch with God due to erroneous beliefs such as believing Jesus is God. If I am wrong please feel free to correct me.

I think this may also cause some misunderstanding of the King James Bible, especially since it was translated into Old English from Hebrew, Greek, Amaraic, Chaldee and a couple of other languages.

I can only think this is why so many people continue to think Jesus was not The Son of God and God, so here are just a few verses of many which proclaim both from different aspects.

Hebrews 1:1-8 "God, who at sundry times and in diverse manners spake in times past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they, for unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?And again I will be to him a father and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.--------------But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of rightousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Titus 2:13 "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our savior Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for us..."

I cor.8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

Hebrews 10-12 "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever sat down on the right hand of God, from henceforth waiting until his enemies be made his footstool."

! John 2:22 "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledges the Son hath the Father also."

I John 5:11-13 "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life:and he that hath not the Son hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God: that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

I John 5:10 "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God,and eternal life."

II John 9 "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.He that abideth in the Doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."`

I Cor. 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

John 8:57 "Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet 50 years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I Am. Then they took up stones to cast at him (They understood he had proclaimed himself to be God).

John 8: 19 and 23-24 "Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had Known me, ye should have known my Father.....Ye are from beneath, I am from above: ye are of this world, I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins; for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins.

John 11: 25-27 "Jesus said unto her(Martha) I am the resurrection and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. believeth thou this?She said unto him, Yea Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world."

John 17:11 " And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, AS WE ARE."

John 16:7 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."(Only God could sent his Holy Spirit, the Comforter.)

John 10:30-31 "I and my Father are one."Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.(Again, they understood that He had claimed to be God.)

Matt.1:20-23"....fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that thing which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shall call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying Behold a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is God with us."(Isaiah 7:14)

The incident you refer to in Mark 10:17&18 and Luke 18:18-19 is also in Matt. 19:16-30. There is a similar incident in Luke 10;25-29. Both the rich young ruler and the lawyer who were religious on the outside but not "believers" were tempting and testing Jesus and not recognizing him as deity even though he was teaching as the Son of God. That's why they addressed him as Master( an earthly teacher) and not as Lord. What Jesus replied was essentially "Believing me to be but a human teacher, why do you call me "good" as only God is good.

Contrast the rich young ruler who could not give what he had to the poor, and went away unsaved, with Zaccheus (Luke 19:1-10) who received Jesus, was saved, and gave away half of everything he had and restored four-fold anything he had taken unjustly.

As I said there are many more verses and I will gladly post them if you wish, or at least reference them if you wish. I think these cover most of the questions here. That's all I have time for tonight plus my keyboard is acting up. I'll try to get back and answer more of the specific ones later.

Meantime please consider this: If Jesus was not God as he claimed to be and proved in various ways, then all the millions of Christians since then have been duped by the greatest liar and con man in history. Is this even possible? Having seen the change in people who simply took him at his word and became born-again Christians I sincerely don't believe it to be so.


11-14-2008, 05:46 AM

Who is the God of the Bible?


[Mark 10:6-9 and John 14:20, 15:1-7, 17:11, 17:18-23, 17:26]

There are many verses in the Bible that speak of Jesus and God as being "one".
But does this necessarily mean that Jesus is God? If you read the six selections above then you will see that we cannot take the word "one" so literally. If we do, then we are God, as Jesus said, "...they also may be one in us" and "...they may be one, even as we are one." What the Bible means when it says that Jesus is "one" with God is that he is extremely close to god, "as if" they are one. John 17:18-23 tells how we normal human beings can attain this "oneness" (or "closeness") with God by being "sanctified through the truth." Aside from this, neither the word "trinity" appears anywhere in the Bible nor any explanation of such a thing.


[Matthew 18:23-34, Luke 19:11-21, and John 20:26-29]

Many of Jesus' disciples referred to Jesus as "Lord". Even Jesus himself said that he is their Lord. But does this mean that he is their God? If you read the three short stories above then you will realize that back in the Biblical time period most servants referred to their masters as "lord". This was a common practice because it showed honor and respect for a person of such high stature.


Even today in many countries around the world such as England, "lord" is used in referring to kings, princes, and others who deserve such a lofty title. The disciples and followers of Jesus viewed him as their earthy master and themselves as his servants. He was a man from God who brought them God's message of truth, justice, and peace. Who could be more deserving of the title "lord" than Jesus Christ? Besides, "lord" is defined by Webster in many curious ways.

A few of them are as follows:

A man of high rank in a feudal society.
A king.
A general masculine title of nobility or rank.
A man of renowned power.
A man who has mastery in a given activity or field.

Commenting on the word's history, Webster says that "lord" literally means 'guardian of the bread'". He continues, "Since such a position would be the dominant one in the household, lord came to denote a man of authority and rank in society at large."

In The Holy Quran also uses "lord" in the same context (see 12:23 and 12:41-42). This was simply the language of the time.

The word "lord" does not render the person which it is being applied to as God. If this were the case, then many human beings in the Bible would have to be considered God.

Does Bible Say 'Jesus is God'?

These verses are most indicative of Jesus' position and real nature. The verse in Mark reads:

"As he [Jesus] was setting out on a journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, 'Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?' Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."

If you analyze this verse in truth you will see that Jesus, quite simply, is not God. If he was, why then would he say "No one is good but God alone"? Jesus did not want to be called "good" because he was not God. That title, as Jesus admits, belongs to none but God.

What Does it all Mean?


If all of this has confused you it's probably because you've been trying to justify your belief in the Trinity. To believe in the Trinity goes against all of the teachings of Jesus, as well as the Bible. This is because the Trinity is a man-made doctrine that was drawn up several hundred years after Jesus. In this time period different interpretations of the Bible were causing serious debates among Christians. The various interpretations were, undoubtedly, due to human perversion of the original scriptures, poor preservation, and/or shoddy translations. One of the main things being questioned was the nature of God and Jesus. Was Jesus actually God, the son of God, or just a messenger? The Council of Nicea was formed in an attempt to settle this dispute, and the Nicea Creed (the Trinitarian doctrine) was subsequently hammered out.

Again, as I stated in the beginning, this writing has not been complied to put down or destroy the true teachings of the Bible and the Prophets. I would like to quote from a version of the Bible wherein Jesus is represented as saying:

"Think not that I came to destroy the Law [Torah] and the Prophets [prophethood]. I did not come to destroy them, but rather to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments [from the Law] and teaches men so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the Kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

[Matt. 5:17]

It is wrong to assume that our beliefs are true simply because our teachers, preachers and parents have taught us something passed down to them by generations of forefathers before them. What I would invite all of us to do is to do research for ourselves and learn from reliable sources what is the origin of modern Christianity and what should be our perspective on true belief in general. We can only achieve this with open minds and hearts.

So, may the Great God of the Universe guide us all with His perfect Guidance to all truth, ameen.

What to do Now?

It is not at all logical to simply accept a belief system because it was passed down to you by your parents. After all, what if it is not correct? A system for belief should be based upon sound principles of reasoning and understanding, rather than feelings and emotions.

As regards the Muslims treatment of Jesus, peace be upon him, it should be kept in mind that, although they do not hold him to be the 'son of god' in Christianity, he is definitely held in high esteem as great prophet, 'Miraculous birth" and also believe in the same unseen God that he referred to as "Your Lord and my Lord, your God and my God."

Islam is truly and simply a complete way of life and set of rules taught by all the prophets to mankind, similar to Biblical teachings that were revealed to humankind after Jesus through the last and final prophet Muhammad.

read more

Biblical Contradictions (http://www.bibleislam.com/bible_contradictions.php)

11-20-2008, 10:58 AM
Hi ahmd.

Sorry for the delay in responding;my life got busy again.

I am aware of the various usages of the words "lord" and "one". As with many words you have to understand them in the context of the passage they are used in.

As to Mark 10: 6-9 I have already explained that what Jesus was saying was "If you don't believe I am God why do you call me Good? Only God is Good, and you don't believe I am God."

As to The Trinity Jesus refers many times to God The Father, God The Son, and The Holy Spirit as being parts of the Godhead (Trinity)

The transfiguration-Matt.17:1-8 ,Luke 9: 28-36 ,Mk.9:2-8 "While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them; and they feared as they entered into the cloud. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him." Here is God the Father and God the Son.(See also II Peter 1: 17-18)
Baptism of Jesus- Matt.3: 13-17, Luke 3:21-22, Mark 1: 9-11. "And Jesus when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Here are all three members.
There are many more, as I am sure you are aware. Jesus spoke of all three many times.

I have given you several other verses which show him to be God as declared by Himself, by God the Father and by others. Why do you neglect mentioning them ?

I will quote a few of them as translated by The Amplified Bible which is in modern English. It's purpose is to go beyond the traditional "word-for-word" concept of translation to bring out the richness of the Hebrew and Greek languages. It shows, together with the single English word equivalent to each key Hebrew and Greek word, any other clarifying meanings that may be concealed by the traditional translation method. The use of this "amplification" helps the reader comprehend what the Hebrew and Greek listener instinctively understood as a matter of course.

John 10:30 "I and the Father are One"Jesus meant exactly what it says; He is God. no other meaning is possible here. Look at vs. 33- "The Jews replied, We are not going to stone You for a good act, but for blasphemy, because You, a mere Man, make Yourself out to be God."
They understood.

John 8:57 Jesus replied,I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I AM." So they took up stones to throw at him..... Exodus 3: 14-15 " And God said to Moses, I AM WHO I AM and WHAT I AM, and I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE; and He said, You shall say to the Israelites, I AM has sent me to you! God said also to Moses, This shall you say to the Israelites, The Lord, The God of your fathers, Of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, has sent me to you! This is My name forever, and by this name I am to be remembered to all generations. Again, they wanted to stone Jesus because they understood he had declared himself God.

I John5:20 " And we have seen and know positively that the Son of God has actually come to this world and has given us understanding and insight progressively to perceive(recognize) and come to know better and more clearly Him Who is true; and we are in Him Who is true- in His Son Jesus Christ The Messiah. This Man is the true God and Life Eternal.

II John 9 "Anyone who runs on ahead of God and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ (who is not content with what He taught) does not have God; but he who continues to live in the doctrine (teaching) of Christ does have God, he has both the Father and the Son."

Titus 2:13 "Awaiting and looking for the fulfillment, the realization of our blessed hope, even the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus the Messiah, the Anointed One."

Hebrews 1:8 "But as to the Son, He (God) says to Him, Your throne, O god, is forever and ever( to the ages of the ages) and the scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of absolute righteousness (of justice and straightforwardness) vs. 9...Therefore God, even your Godhead, has anointed You with the oil of exultant joy and gladness above and beyond Your companions.... vs. 10 "And further, You, Lord did lay the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of your hands."

Hebrews 10:12 "Whereas this One(Christ), after He had offered a single sacrifice for our sins, that shall avail for all time, sat down at the right hand of God."

Hebrews 10:29 "How much worse (sterner and heavier) punishment do you suppose he will be judged to deserve who has spurned and thus trampled underfoot the Son of God, and who has considered the covenant blood by which he was consecrated common and unhallowed, thus profaning it and insulting and outraging the Holy Spirit Who imparts grace, the unmerited favor and blessing of God?"

There are more, but my time is limited today. Frankly, I don't see how anyone who has read the Bible and claims to understand it can fail to see Jesus is God and a part of The Trinity.
Even some of the very verses you cite refute your claim that Jesus is not God. John 20: 28 "Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God!" Thomas the Apostle understood. How could he not after seeing and talking to the risen Jesus?
In Matt. 5:17 He said he came to FULFILL the law and the prophets. All was fulfilled and accomplished when he died on the cross . He fulfilled the law by doing away with the old covenant of sacrifices and rituals and establishing a new covenant of grace. He also became the high priest at that time and established all believers as their own priests with direct access to him. The book of Hebrews, among other places, makes this very clear, esp. chapters 8-10.

As to your conclusion I am not the least confused. You cannot confuse a born-again Christian as we have the truth and the Holy Spirit living in us to help our understanding.I did not accept my faith in Christ blindly,and I have seen the results of His indwelling spirit in many others, as I said previously.

As far as translations of the King James Bible it is accurate. There is a discussion of this on the "Bible" thread which I invite you to read. Much of the confusion is caused by non-believers who try to interpret that which they do not understand.The Bible was written mostly to and for Christians, not to non-Christians, hence the many references to "the world" which neither knows nor can understand God or His word.

What is illogical is to venerate Jesus as a mere prophet when He did things no mere prophet could do, as rising from the grave, forgiving sins(which no prophet ever did or could do as they did not have the authority from God), performing many miracles, including raising the dead, and even controlling the very elements of nature at a moments notice.How can a Muslim believe in His virgin birth which fulfilled a very specific prophesy that said He was "God with us" and not believe He is God? What other purpose would that birth serve? Further, no mere prophet was ever born of a virgin. Why would the world need another prophet? It didn't: Jesus said "It is finished". There was and is nothing more needed than belief in Him.

Mankind does not need another set of rules which they cannot keep; they only need forgiveness through Jesus who replaced the former rules with a new testament(covenant) . It is called "grace".(Ephesians 2:5-8 and several other verses).

I have been to the site Biblical Contradictions; obviously composed by someone who did not understand what they were comparing. I may comment on that later but I am out of time for today.

You previously commented that Muslims look forward to the return of Jesus. Would you please tell me why and what they believe will happen then and where it will occur as I am curious about this.

Thanks and I look forward to our next discussion.


11-20-2008, 11:13 PM
No problem, my friend

God Becomes One Man
Christian belief in God’s incarnation has its origins in the beliefs of the ancient Greeks. The very terms used to describe God becoming Man exist in the Gospel of John 1:1 & 14, “In the beginning there was the Word (logos) and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” Then the author of John goes on to say, “...And the word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth...” Although the Greek term logos is translated as “word,” there is no single English term equivalent to it. Its importance lies in its use as a technical term in Greek metaphysical thought from the sixth century B.C., until the third century C.E., and in its appropriation by both Jewish and Christian thinkers. It first appeared in the expressions of Heraclites (540-480 B.C.) as the motivating principle of the universe, but was, by Aristotle’s time, supplanted by the immaterial power nous and made the material power. Logos reappeared in the system of the Stoics who termed their principle of teleology both logos and God. Philo (d. 50 C.E.), a Jewish Alexandrian philosopher, identified the creative word of the Old Testament with the logos of the Stoics. The logos thus became a transcendent principle, as the means by which God expresses Himself in the world. But logos also had a redemptive function; it was the means to a higher spiritual nature. In the Gospel of John, the logos are both creative and redemptive; the latter aspect is given greater emphasis than the former.7
This belief required a reason, for which the concept of original sin and divine sacrifice were invented. It was claimed that due to the sin of Adam, which accumulated down the generations until it became so great that no human sacrifice could remove it, a divine sacrifice was needed. Consequently, God had a human son, who was God, Himself, incarnate. God’s son later died on a cross as a sacrifice for all humankind to God, Himself. The son, who is God, Himself, was later resurrected and currently sits on the right side of God’s throne waiting to judge humankind at the end of this world. So for Christians, also one-fifth of humankind, God became a man at one and only one point in the history of this world, and belief in His incarnation is essential for salvation.________________________________________ __
7 Dictionary of Philosophy and Religion, p. 314.

What led ancient people to have the belief that the God became man or that God and man were one and the same? The fundamental reason was their inability to understand or accept the concept of God creating this world from nothingness. They perceived God to be like themselves, creating from what already exists. Humans create things by manipulating existing things into other states, shapes and forms having different functions. For example, a wooden table was once a tree in a forest, and its nails and screws were once iron ore in rocks underneath the earth. Humans cut down the tree and shaped its wood into a tabletop and legs; they dug up the iron ore, melted it and poured in into moulds to produce nails and screws. Then they assembled the pieces to create a table for a variety of uses. Similarly, the plastic chairs people now sit on were once liquid oil, stored deep in the bowels of the earth. One cannot imagine sitting on oil the way people sit on chairs. However, through the human ability to manipulate the chemical components of oil, plastic is produced and chairs are made for humans to sit on. This is the essence of human activity; humans already merely modify and transform what already exists. They do not create the trees or produce the oil. When they discuss oil production, they really mean oil extraction. The oil was created millions of years before by geological processes; than humans extracted it from the earth and refined it. They also did not creating the trees. Even if they planted them, they did not create the seeds that they planted.
Consequently, human, in their ignorance of God, often conceive of God as being just like them. For example, in the Old Testament, it is written, “God created man after his own image; in the image of God he created Man.” For Hindus, Purusa is the creator God, Brahma, in human form, and just as humans create by manipulating the existing world around them, than the creator god must do likewise.

Did God Become Man?
The question which remains is Did God become Man? Logically speaking, the answer is no because the concept of God becoming man contradicts the basic meaning of the term “God.” People commonly say that God is able to do all things; whatever He wants to do, He can do. In the Bible of Christians it is said, “... through God all things are possible (Matthew, 19: 26; Mark 10: 27, 14: 36).”
The Qur’aan of Muslims states,
“Indeed, Allah (God) is able to do all things.”
[Surah Baqarah (2):20]
…and the Hindu scriptures carry texts of similar meanings.
All the major religious texts contain general expressions regarding the basic concept of God’s omnipotence. He is Greater than all things, and through Him all things are possible. If this general concept is to be translated into practical terms, one has to first identify and understand the basic attributes of God. Most societies perceive God as an eternal being without beginning or end. If, on the basis that God is able to do all things, and it was asked whether God could die, what would be the answer? Since dying is part of “all things,” can it be said, “If He wants to?” Of course this cannot be said.
So, there is a problem here. God is defined as being ever-living, without end, and dying means “coming to an end.” Consequently, to ask if He can die is actually a nonsensical question. It is self- contradictory. Similarly, to ask whether God can be born, is also absurd because God has already been defined as eternal, having no beginning. Being born means having a beginning, coming into existence after not existing. In this same vein, atheist philosophers enjoy asking theists: “Can God create a stone too heavy for Him to lift?” If the theist says yes, it means that God can create something greater than Himself. And if he says no, it means that God is unable to do all things.
Therefore, the term “all things” in the phrase “God is able to do all things” excludes the absurdities. It cannot include things that contradict His divine attributes; things that would make Him less than God, like, forgetting, sleeping, repenting, growing, eating, etc. Instead, it includes only “all things” that are consistent with Him being God. This is what the statement “God is able to do all things” means. It cannot be understood in the absolute sense; it must be qualified.
The claim that God became man is also an absurdity. It is not befitting of God to take on human characteristics because it means that the Creator has become His creation. However, the creation is a product of the creative act of the Creator. If the Creator became His creation, it would mean that the Creator created Himself, which is an obvious absurdity. To be created, He would first have to not exist, and, if He did not exist, how could He then create? Furthermore, if He were created, it would mean that He had a beginning, which also contradicts His being eternal. By definition creation is in need of a creator. For created beings to exist they must have a creator to bring them into existence. God cannot need a creator because God is the Creator. Thus, there is an obvious contradiction in terms. The claim that God became His creation implies that He would need a creator, which is a ludicrous concept. It contradicts the fundamental concept of God being uncreated, needing no creator and being the Creator.

Did God have a Son?
If God did not become Man, did He have a son? Since He is able to do all things, He should be able to have a son. However, this claim reduces God to the lowly status of His creation. Creatures procreate by giving birth to mini versions of themselves that later grow up and reproduce copies of themselves, and so on and so forth. Dogs have puppies, cats have kittens, cows have calves, and men have children. So, what does God have – a baby God? Gods must give birth to Gods. But, for God to have a son, there has to exist another God besides Him. It is not befitting for God to have a son as such an act equates Him with His creation.
Everything other than God comes into existence by the commandment of God, not that God becomes His creation or a part of God becomes creation. God does not become His creation nor does God give birth to creation. God is God, the Creator, and man and the contents of the universe are His creation. Although humans cannot grasp the concept of creation from nothing, that is exactly what God did and does. He alone creates from nothing, which 1s among the attributes that make Him unique and distinct from His creation. His act of creation is entirely different from that of human beings.
This was the essence of the message of all the true messengers and prophets of God sent to humanity – Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad – as well as those sent throughout the world whose names are now unknown to humanity - may God’s peace and blessings be on them all. Today, this precise message can only be found in the Qur’aan; the last scripture revealed by God to humankind. The message remains loud and clear only in the Qur’aan because it has remained unchanged since the time of its revelation, one thousand four hundred years ago, until today.
God states in the Qur’aan for those who make Him like His creation or vice versa:
“There is nothing similar to Him.”
[Surah ash-Shooraa (42):11]
He also states for those who attributed to Him a son:
“But it is not suitable for Ar-Rahmaan (the Most Beneficent -Allah) that He should beget a child.”
[Surah Maryam (19):92]
He further states for those who believe that He created the world from Himself:
“If He wishes anything to exist, He merely commands it: ‘Be’, and it is.”
[Surah Yaa Seen (36):82]
For the polytheists He states:
“There was no other god along with Him, for if there were each would have taken away what he created and tried to overcome the other.”
[Surah al-Mu´minoon (23):91]
He asks the atheists:
“Did nothing create them or did they create themselves?”
[Surah at-Toor (52):35]
And in reference to Jesus and his mother, Mary, He confirmed their humanity by saying simply:
“They both used to eat food.”
[Surah al-Maa`idah (5):75]
The concept of God not becoming man is very important for every human being to grasp because it lies at the foundation of the difference between Islam and all other existing religions. All other religions have a distorted concept of God, to one degree or another. The most important idea which needs to be understood, is that God did not become man. God is unique; He alone deserves to be worshipped by His creation. To believe that a man is God or that a man became God and to worship that man is the greatest sin and the greatest evil that humans can do on this earth. This understanding is most important because it forms the foundation for salvation. There can be no salvation without it. However, this belief alone is not the key salvation. True, correct belief must be translated into practice, and not merely remain in the realm of knowledge, for it to become pure faith. A person has to live a righteous life based on the correct belief to attain salvation. Nevertheless, the starting point is, knowing who God is, knowing that God never became and will never become a human being.

Of a book

Did God Become Man (http://www.islamhouse.com/d/files/en/ih_books/signal/en_Did_God_Become_Man.pdf)

11-20-2008, 11:39 PM
You previously commented that Muslims look forward to the return of Jesus. Would you please tell me why and what they believe will happen then and where it will occur as I am curious about this.


“antichrist” or Dajjaal

(He will come to a people and call them ﴿to his way﴾ and they will respond to him. He will issue a command to the sky and it will rain, and to the earth and it will bring forth vegetation, then their livestock will come to them in the evening with their humps very high and their udders full of milk and their flanks wide and fat. Then he will come to another people and call them ﴿to his way﴾ and they will refuse, and their wealth will leave with him, and they will be faced with drought, with none of their wealth left. Then he will walk through the wasteland and will say to it, "Bring forth your treasure,'' and its treasure will come forth like a swarm of bees. Then he will issue commands that a man be killed, and he will strike him with a sword and cut him into two pieces, and (put these pieces as far apart) as the distance between an archer and his target. Then he will call him, and the man will come to him with his face shining. At that point Allah will send the Messiah `Isa bin Maryam, who will come down to the white minaret in the eastern side of Damascus, wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and with his hands resting on the wings of two angels. He will search for him (the Dajjal) until he catches up with him at the eastern gate of Ludd, where he will kill him. Then Allah will reveal to `Isa ibn Maryam the words: "I have brought forth from amongst My creatures people against whom none will be able to fight. Take My servants safely to the Mount (Tur).'' Then Allah will send Ya'juj and Ma'juj, as Allah says: (and they swoop down from every Hadab.))

(`Isa and his companions will beseech Allah, and Allah will send against them insects which will attack their necks, and in the morning they will all perish as one. Then `Isa and his companions will come down and they will not find a single spot on earth that is free from their putrefaction and stench. Then `Isa and his companions will again beseech Allah, and He will send birds with necks like those of Bactrian camels, and they will carry them and throw them wherever Allah wills.) Ibn Jabir said: "`Ata' bin Yazid As-Saksaki told me, from Ka`b or someone else: `They will throw them into Al-Mahbal.' Ibn Jabir said: "I said, `O Abu Yazid, and where is Al-Mahbal'' He said, "In the east (where the sun rises).'' He said:

(Then Allah will send rain which no house of clay or (tent of) camel's hair will be able to keep out, for forty days, and the earth will be washed until it looks like a mirror. Then it will be said to the earth: bring forth your fruit and restore your blessing. On that day a group of people will be able to eat from one pomegranate and seek shade under its skin, and everything will be blessed. A milch-camel will give so much milk that it will be sufficient for a whole group of people, and a milch-cow will give so much milk that it will be sufficient for a whole clan, and a sheep will be sufficient for an entire household. At that time Allah will send a pleasant wind which will reach beneath their armpits and will take the soul of every Muslim -- or every believer -- and there will be left only the most evil of people who will commit fornication like mules, and then the Hour will come upon them.)'' This was also recorded by Muslim but not by Al-Bukhari. It was also recorded by the Sunan compilers, with different chains of narrators. At-Tirmidhi said, "It is Hasan Sahih.'' The Third Hadith Imam Ahmad recorded from Ibn Harmalah, from his maternal aunt who said: "The Messenger of Allah gave a Khutbah, and he had a bandage on his finger where he had been stung by a scorpion. He said:

(You say that you have no enemy, but you will keep fighting your enemies until Ya'juj and Ma'juj come, with their wide faces, small eyes and reddish hair, pouring down from every mound with their faces looking like burnished shields.)'' Ibn Abi Hatim recorded a Hadith of Muhammad bin `Amr from Khalid bin `Abdullah bin Harmalah Al-Mudlaji, from his paternal aunt, from the Prophet , and he mentioned something similar.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - Ya'juj and Ma'juj (http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2623)

If you want to know more about the Antichrist Read this book


http://www.islamhouse.com/data/images/pdf.gif (http://www.islamhouse.com/d/files/en/ih_books/signal/en_The_Dajjaal.pdf)


http://www.islamhouse.com/data/images/doc.gif (http://www.islamhouse.com/d/files/en/ih_books/signal/en_The_Dajjaal.doc)

11-21-2008, 02:39 PM
Firstly and MOST importantly the question is sent with love and integrity in difficult times............
I have yet to find a thread of Islam / Christian/ Buddhism/ other religious discussion where I do not get a feeling that there is immense effort being expended on proving the other wrong and "winning". For that to succeed there is usually a loser. In this context that is not healthy for the Planet or its inhabitants. We are short of food love even water on a planet largely covered by the stuff. So, let us (s)pray.......and help each other.
I see all sorts of figures thrown about as to how many of one "Side" have been killed by the other. Frankly my dear I don't give a damn! (insert Clake Gable Emoticon) No one alive is qualified to judge who started it!! What does matter is that it stops.
As a relatively ignorant genius most of the major religions appear to me to "Preach" love whilst a very distressing percentage of it's followers will kill you if you don't love and pray in the right direction.
The "Books" cited as authoritative are usually at least two or three issues old! Sometimes there may have been a bit lost in the translation. There may have been a problem with Chinese whispers, even in the non Asian based religions. As for interpretation.... I really don't even want to go there! but what the heck, I have started so I will finish..... sorry for those that were offended by Monty Python but I refer you to the part of the film (Life of Brian , probably!) where Brian loses a shoe etc........."a sign, a sign." was the clamour of the crowd.....no it really was just a shoe. The fanatical will always find something to grasp and misinterpret..........
God, Allah, Holy Spirit, Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha,( is that 6 "Gods" or 1? Do I or they really care?) if they were sitting around a table enjoying a nice beer/wine/orange juice (fill glass according to religion) chewing the metaphorical fat of Pig/calf/Lama or other quadruped (disembowel according to religion) Would they not say ..............." Holy ****! WHAT was the point of all that we went through and tried to teach? We were just giving a set of reaaaaalllly good "Rules" to live life by day to day and those silly little bipeds are killing each other over how best to love each other?..............Return to message heading.........
What was the point?????
For so long as we look backwards we will surely trip over the same logs again and again...............To a better future, for all of our Gods offspring.
Stop bickering, start loving!!! :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
Argue that and I will poke you in the eye with a sharp stick!
Love and Light

11-21-2008, 06:07 PM
Toooo funny, but my ski goggles are stick proof, have 'em on right now :thumbsup:

Well, I'll have to pull my Trump card and say that the constant argument between the different faiths is really just a lot of ego going on there in the promotion of religion. There are so many rules, regulations, and rituals with religions and the control involved with it is amazing. It's scary to me that people really believe that they are inherently bad, born under a bad sign (www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0_fhwe-b_0&feature=related) because they were, ah, umm.. born???:suprise: And need to be rescued?? :suprise: You gotta be kidding me! :rofl:
If you start believing that you're good, spread the love and keep yourself on solutions, help yourself be better, the world would improve greatly.
Goals work, because you get what you concentrate on Delve into yourselves, you'll be surprised to see what you find... Make it a habit, it'll be easier then.

Lots of Love,

11-22-2008, 12:06 AM
Hi Ahmd.

“antichrist” or Dajjaal

Thanks for the quick reply but I am not sure what is going on here. Would you be so kind as to either supply a paraphrasing of it or at least a list of the beings involved in English.



11-22-2008, 10:28 AM
Hi Ian.

I see all sorts of figures thrown about as to how many of one "Side" have been killed by the other. Frankly my dear I don't give a damn! (insert Clarke Gable Emoticon) No one alive is qualified to judge who started it!! What does matter is that it stops

Couldn't agree more. That's why I asked Ahmd not to bring that stuff up again and we would just discuss the doctrines. Unfortunately mankind won't stop it for a while yet.

As a relatively ignorant genius most of the major religions appear to me to "Preach" love whilst a very distressing percentage of it's followers will kill you if you don't love and pray in the right direction.

Well, keep reading this and the "Bible" thread. Maybe you can "edicate" yourself. Ignorance is only skin deep: Ugly..., now thats to the bone.:rofl:

On a more serious note; as man has always had a little "spot" that God put there for Him to fill, mankind is always searching for Him. Thus the continuing discussions and the multitude of sites of all religions. There are always differing viewpoints, even within the same religion, but as Hugh Ross said in his book "I believe the Bible to be the word of God as it is the only "Holy Book" which appears to have been written from a viewpoint other than that of a man." As a Christian I also believe that.

The last thing Jesus said as He left for Heaven was "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to all creatures." That should be the mission of all Christians, to spread the "Good News" with love and in all humility, with discussion, not coercion or threats, and certainly not with death threats or violence. You or Amhd or anyone else is free to listen or not, to choose or not.

Jesus also said"Love thy neighbor as thyself."(Matt. 19:19) In Mark 12:29-31 he said the 2 greatest commandments are to love God and to love your neighbor. In John 15:13 he said Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" In John 18:36 he said My kingdom is not of this world: if it were then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews:...." He would not have his servants fight, even to save his own life. And of course he laid down his life for you and I and all mankind, the ultimate act of love.So anyone acting outside of the above are mistaken in their actions. Not trying to preach here, just show and explain how Christians are supposed to act. Can't speak for the other religions.

sorry for those that were offended by Monty Python

I was not offended, just thought that t.v. show and movie was stupid.

God, Allah, Holy Spirit, Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha,( is that 6 "Gods" or 1?

Only see one God here: God the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. Muhammad and Buddha never claimed to be God.

WHAT was the point of all that we went through and tried to teach? We were just giving a set of reaaaaalllly good "Rules" to live life by day to day and those silly little bipeds are killing each other over how best to love each other?

Jesus' point was that He replaced all those "Rules" with "Grace" Instead of "Works".

Argue that and I will poke you in the eye with a sharp stick!
Love and Light

Not exactly a message of love!:D

I'd like to finish with a favorite quote from a very wise man (can't remember his name at the moment):

"Religion is man's search for God: Christianity is when he finds Him."

Al:thumbsup: :peaceflag:

11-22-2008, 01:17 PM
Good afternoon Al,
Many thanks for your reply.
I am sure you will appreciate from the general tenor of my first post that it was typed tongue partially in cheek. Without being disrespectful to either party or their views the more I read the more my shoulders sagged as the weight of argument increased.
This is Energeticforum/personaldevelopment and feeling my energies dissipate trawling through the perceived vitriol I think the question needed asking. From a completely personal perspective I am here to learn, we all are or should be. I am sure that you will agree that there is only one omniscient being and the rest of us are all ignorant to a degree.
I am certainly, as indicated above, happy to listen. We were after all given two ears and one mouth and it is a pity many do not use them in proportion.
I stand by what I said concerning "Holy" books. Until we can get the answer to the big question "Life the Universe and Everything" by God, $29.99 from Amazon.com, rather than Douglas Adams, Greek, Arab or other scribes then they are not written in the first person and emanating dogma should be treated with appropriate care.
6 Gods or 1 question was clearly rhetorical. The relevant question, a little more closely defined if you wish, for the purpose of a Christian/ Islam
debate generally and the discourse between yourself and Ahmd in particular is if Jesus and Mohammad were sharing iced tea at the oasis would they not be more than a tad miffed that there were far too many people getting hung up on the semantics of passages in this weighty tome or that and far too few uniting mankind in moving man (and woman!) kind forward on a path to enlightenment???
1 [C or U] the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or any such system of belief and worship:
noun [U]
a religion based on belief in God and the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, and on the Bible
Cambridge Advanced dictionary. Good enough for me ;o)
A woman has knowledge that a child is hers. A man only has faith.
I would contend that all religion is currently Faith, no matter how strongly and sincerely held a view. I maintain that the underlying message of the major teachings is one of love and tolerance. Over the years the protagonists of one religion or another have far too often espoused love and tolerance and failed, spectacularly, to deliver.
I will listen to my Christian and Muslim friends and acknowledge the right of each to their faith but request that as they can't all be right to leave me out of it. It is not fear of choosing the wrong side but I do believe that assuming there is some form of chat at metaphorical Pearly Gates the omniscient and omnipotent interviewer will be more concerned about how I have treated my fellow beings rather that which scriptures I believed in.
Could we not spend our time more constructively looking for the common ground? Just a thought.
Love and Light

11-22-2008, 10:13 PM
Hello friends

As I told earlier

I'm here for one thing only

Search for the right

May Almighty Allah guide all of us the all truth, amen.

To get to the truth

Do not let pride, ego, bias or prejudice affect your judgment as you review the pages.

If you do not free your mind and heart from these obstructions, then it will be near to impossible to see the light of truth to which we will be referring so often.

For example:

If I die now

Do you go to heaven or to the fire?

Therefore, we must debate who is right and who is wrong ?!?!?!

In this life we are friends !

But Do are we in the afterlife with some in heaven?

(The question here)

Any religion is true?

To see an example

Biblical Contradictions

Bible Islam - A List of Biblical Contradictions (http://www.bibleislam.com/bible_contradictions.php)

On the other hand, to see the QURAN there is no one error

He is from more than 1400 years


Quran Means "Recitation"

The word "Quran" means "that which is recited; or that which is dictated in memory form." As such, it is not a book, nor is it something that reaches us only in written form. The documentation in writting about the Quran has been preserved in museums thoughout the world, including the Topekopi Palace in Istanbul, Turkey, the museum in Tashkent, Uzbekistan and also in England. Keep in mind also, the Quran is only considered "Quran" while it is in the recitation form, not in the written or the book form. The word for what is written and held in the hand to be read by the eye is called "mus-haf" (meaning script or that which is written down).

Only One Version - Arabic

There are no different versions of the Quran in the Arabic language, only different translations and of course, none of these would be considered to hold the value and authenticity of the original Arabic Recitation. The Quran is divided up into 30 equal parts, called "Juz'" (parts) in the Arabic language. These are learned by Muslims from their very early beginnings as children.

Memorized by Millions - Entirely

The important thing to keep in mind about the Quran is the memorization and transmission of the actual "Rectiation" just as it came to Muhammad, peace be upon him, from the Angel Gabriel and was learned and memorized by his companions and they in turn, passed it down to their followers and continued in this way until we see today, over 10,000,000 (ten million) Muslims who have committed the entire Quran to memory. This is not a small feat. After all, how many other works of literary value have been memorized and passed down through so many generations, in the original language, without a single change in even one sentence?

Each Muslim Has "Quran" Memorized

All Muslims have memorzied a portion of the Quran in the Arabic language, as this is an important part of their daily prayers. Many Muslims have memorized large portions of the Quran from one tenth to one half to all of the entire Quran, and all in the original Arabic language. It should be noted, there are over one and a half billion (1,500,000,000) Muslims worldwide and only about 10% are Arab, all the rest are learing the Quran in Arabic as a second language.

God Speaks in First Person to Mankind in Quran

The Quran contains clear statements from Almighty God (Allah) and it is Him speaking to all of us in the first person. He tells of us our own creation, the creation of all that is the universe and what has happened to those before us and what is to become of us if we do not take heed of the warnings clearly spelled out in His Revelation. He speaks also to Muhammad, peace be upon him, to show that Muhammad, peace be upon him, is not making this up himself and even chastises Muhammad, peace be upon him, for making human assumptions rather than waiting for revelation in matters (ie.; surah At-Tahreem and surah Abasa).

Quran Mentions Itself

The Quran refers to itself as "The Quran" (The Recitation) and mentions that it is to all mankind and jinn (another creation of Allah, similar to humans in that they could make choices as to whether or not they would obey God's Commandments, and they existed before humans).

Quran Describes God's Nature Exactly

The Quran is clear on who God is and who He is not. There is no room left for doubt after reading the Quran in the Arabic languge: God is One. He is the only Creator, Sustainer and Owner of the Universe. He has no partners. He has no relatives; wives, children or offspring. He is not like His creation and He does not need it for His existance, while all the time the creation is totally dependent on Him. His attributes are clearly spelled out as the epitome of each and every one. He is for instance, the All-Knowing; the All-Hearing; the All-Seeing; the All-Forgiving; the All- Loving; the All-Merciful; the Only One God. There is never a contradiction to this found anywhere in the Quran.

Quran Challanges Readers

The Quran makes the clear challange, that if you are in doubt about it - then bring a book like it. Also, to bring ten chapters like it and then finally, to bring one single chapter like it. 1,400 years - and no one has been able to duplicate it's beauty, recitation, miracles and ease of memorization. Another challange for the unbelievers to consider; "If this (Quran) were from other than Allah, you would find within it many contradictions." And yet, another challange offered by Allah in the Quran is for the unbelievers to look around for evidences. Allah says He will show them His signs within themselves and on the farthest horizons.

Scientific Miracles in Quran

The scientific miracles of the Quran could not have been understood at that time, yet today we take for granted the many things included in the revelation of the Quran. Some include mentioning: The formation of embryo in the womb of the mother (surah 98); deep seas partitions; waters that do not mix; clouds and how they make rain and how lightning is caused by ice crystals; formation of the earth's mountains deep underground; orbits of planets and stars and moons - and even the mention of space travel (surah 55:33).

Watch videos of world's top scientists commenting on the " Miracle of Science in Quran "
(http://www.scienceislam.com/scientists_quran.php]Science Islam - Scientists Comment on the Quran)

References :

Bible Compared to Quran (http://islamtomorrow.com/articles/Bible_vs_Quran.asp]Islam Tomorrow .com)

11-22-2008, 10:30 PM
Hi Ahmd.

Thanks for the quick reply but I am not sure what is going on here. Would you be so kind as to either supply a paraphrasing of it or at least a list of the beings involved in English.



Meaning of the Word Maseeh (Messiah)

There are over fifty scholarly comments on the meaning of the word Maseeh (Messiah). They said that this word is applied both to the Truthful One [True Messiah, i.e., ‘Eesa (Jesus) peace be upon him ] and to the misleading liar [the “antichrist” or Dajjaal]. The Messiah is the Truthful One, ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (Jesus the son of Mary), peace be upon him the Messiah of guidance, who healed those who were born blind and lepers, and brought the dead to life by Allah’s Leave. The false messiah (al‐maseeh al‐dajjaal) is the liar who leads people astray, the messiah of misguidance who will tempt people by means of the signs that he is given, such as bringing down rain, reviving the earth to bring forth vegetation, and other “miracles.”
So Allah has created two messiahs, who are opposites of one another. The scholars said that the reason why the Dajjaal is called maseeh (a “messiah”) is because one of his eyes is mamsooh (lit. “wiped”; smooth or abraded, i.e., he will be blind or defective in one eye). Or it was said that it is because he will survey or travel throughout the earth (yamsah) in forty days… The former view is more correct, because of what was said in the hadeeth narrated by Muslim (no. 5221) from Anas ibn Maalik, who said: “The Messenger of Allah peace be upon him said: ‘The Dajjaal will be blind ( mamsooh) in one eye, and between his eyes will be written ‘kaafir’…’”.

Meaning of the Word Dajjaal

The word Dajjaal is taken from the expression “Dajala al‐ba’eer (he smeared the camel)”, referring to when they covered it with tar. The root dajala means to mix. The word dajala is used to mean deliberately confusing matters and being vague and ambiguous, The Dajjaal is the one who speaks in vagaries, who tells many lies and deceives many people. The word “Dajjaal” became a title given to the lying, one‐eyed, false messiah. The Dajjaal is so called because he will conceal his kufr from the people by lying to them, deceiving them and confusing them.

If you want to know more about the Antichrist Read this book





11-22-2008, 10:45 PM
Quran Mentions Itself

The Quran refers to itself as "The Quran" (The Recitation) and mentions that it is to all mankind and jinn (another creation of Allah, similar to humans in that they could make choices as to whether or not they would obey God's Commandments, and they existed before humans).

Hi Ahmd, is the jinn the same reference to djini or something similar in West Africa? There are stories of them having supernatural powers, etc... Is that the same?

11-23-2008, 02:23 PM
Good afternoon Ahmd,
As I posted previously in my chat with Al would it not be more constructive to look for some common ground?
At the moment, if I understand your arguments correctly, my reading of the Quran, or Mus-haf, in English has been pretty much a waste of time. Why have none of the current 1.5 billion Muslims nor any of their ancestors since Muhhamad been able to provide accurate translations, with the help of Allah?
The logical conclusion is that if I do not Learn Arabic then I may not be following the teachings sufficiently accurately and am as a result doomed to Hellfire for eternity, which seems a bit of a rough deal.
This is particulary so as there are many human's on the planet still leading honest decent lives in remote areas who have not even heard of the Quran. Humanity also started many years before it's message was written. Were they too all cast into the fire? This does not seem very compassionate nor indeed logical. Why would an all powerful deity place humanity all over the planet but only give a handfull the tools of salvation?
I am also struggling with a few other tings that have been posted. No other religion respects and dignifies Jesus as Islam does? Well I think one or two Christians may not be able to swallow that whole. They may also be a bit put out by you telling them that they are the greatest evil on this Earth. A little attention to cummunication and people skills would improve chances of being heard.
To Divinity and beyond
Your friend

11-23-2008, 09:42 PM
Hi Ahmd, is the jinn the same reference to djini or something similar in West Africa? There are stories of them having supernatural powers, etc... Is that the same?

Hi Aaron

Praise be to Allaah.

The jinn are part of the creation of Allaah. He created them from fire before He created Adam, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And indeed, We created man from dried (sounding) clay of altered mud.

And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire”

[al-Hijr 15:26-27]

Just as Adam had descendents, so Iblees had descendents too, as Allaah says of Iblees (interpretation of the meaning):

“Will you then take him (Iblees) and his offspring as protectors and helpers rather than Me while they are enemies to you? What an evil is the exchange for the Zaalimoon (polytheists, and wrongdoers, etc)”

[al-Kahf 18:50]

Allaah created the jinn and mankind to worship Him. Whoever obeys Him will enter Paradise and whoever disobeys Him will enter Hell:

“And I (Allaah) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone).

I seek not any provision from them (i.e. provision for themselves or for My creatures) nor do I ask that they should feed Me (i.e. feed themselves or My creatures).

Verily, Allaah is the All Provider, Owner of Power, the Most Strong”

[al-Dhaariyaat 51:56 – interpretation]

All of the jinn, like mankind, are accountable. Among them there are believers and kaafirs, those who obey Allaah and those who disobey Him, as Allaah tells us that they said:

“‘There are among us some that are righteous, and some the contrary; we are groups having different ways (religious sects)’”

[al-Jinn 72:11 – interpretation of the meaning]

The jinn will be rewarded or punished in the Hereafter just like mankind. Allaah tells us that they said:

“‘And of us some are Muslims (who have submitted to Allaah, after listening to this Qur’aan), and of us some are Al-Qaasitoon (disbelievers those who have deviated from the Right Path)’. And whosoever has embraced Islam (i.e. has become a Muslim by submitting to Allaah), then such have sought the Right Path.’

And as for the Qaasitoon (disbelievers who deviated from the Right Path), they shall be firewood for Hell”

[al-Jinn 72:14-15 – interpretation of the meaning]

The jinn and mankind will all be brought to account on the Day of Resurrection before the Lord of the Worlds. None of them will be able to postpone that or flee from it.

“O assembly of jinn and men! If you have power to pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, then pass beyond (them)! But you will never be able to pass them, except with authority (from Allaah)!”

[al-Rahmaan 55:33 – interpretation of the meaning]

Whoever among the jinn or mankind tries to flee from the Reckoning will never be able to do so, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“There will be sent against you both, smokeless flames of fire and (molten) brass, and you will not be able to defend yourselves

[al-Rahmaan 55:35]

When the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was in Makkah, a group of the jinn came to him; they heard the Qur’aan and were moved by it:

“And (remember) when We sent towards you (Muhammad) a group (three to ten persons) of the jinn, (quietly) listening to the Qur’aan. When they stood in the presence thereof, they said: “Listen in silence!” And when it was finished, they returned to their people, as warners”

[al-Ahqaaf 46:29 – interpretation of the meaning]

Some of the jinn believed when they heard the Qur’aan, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say (O Muhammad): ‘It has been revealed to me that a group (from three to ten in number) of jinn listened (to this Qur’aan). They said: “Verily, we have heard a wonderful Recitation (this Qur’aan)!

It guides to the Right Path, and we have believed therein, and we shall never join (in worship) anything with our Lord (Allaah)”’”

[al-Jinn 72:1-2]

Both Adam and Iblees fell into sin, but Adam regretted it and repented, and Allaah accepted his repentance:

“Then Adam received from his Lord Words. And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance). Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful”

[al-Baqarah 2:37 – interpretation of the meaning]

But Iblees refused and was arrogant, so he was one of the disbelievers:

“And (remember) when We said to the angels: ‘Prostrate yourselves before Adam.’ And they prostrated except Iblees (Satan), he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to Allaah)”

[al-Baqarah 2:34 – interpretation of the meaning]

Whoever disobeys Allaah out of pride and arrogance, among the jinn and mankind, is following the Shaytaan and will be gathered with him in the Fire of Hell if he does not repent, as Allaah said to Iblees:

“(Allaah) said: ‘The truth is — and the truth I say

That I will fill Hell with you [Iblees (Satan)] and those of them (mankind) that follow you, together’”

[Saad 38:84-85 – interpretation of the meaning]

The friends of the Most Merciful (Allaah), among the jinn and mankind, co-operate in righteousness and piety, and the friends of the Shaytaan, among the jinn and mankind, co-operate in sin and transgression. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And so We have appointed for every Prophet enemies — Shayaateen (devils) among mankind and jinn, inspiring one another with adorned speech as a delusion (or by way of deception). If your Lord had so willed, they would not have done it; so leave them alone with their fabrications”

[al-An’aam 6:112]

Based on this, we cannot say anything about them except that which has been narrated in the texts of Islam; anything other than that is hidden from us. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And follow not (O man, i.e., say not, or do not, or witness not) that of which you have no knowledge. Verily, the hearing, and the sight, and the heart of each of those ones will be questioned (by Allaah)”

[al-Isra’ 17:36]

11-23-2008, 09:50 PM
At the moment, if I understand your arguments correctly, my reading of the Quran, or Mus-haf, in English has been pretty much a waste of time. Why have none of the current 1.5 billion Muslims nor any of their ancestors since Muhhamad been able to provide accurate translations, with the help of Allah?

Hi my dear friend

Arabs are only 10% and the remaining non-Arab Muslims

Muslims from all countries of the world

South America
North and Central America and the Caribbean

As for the translation


Quran Explorer (http://www.quranexplorer.com/Quran/Default.aspx)


Allah's Quran - Goodies - Islamic Wallpaper | Audio | Video (http://allahsquran.com/goodies/free_quran.php)


Quran Tafsir

Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir (http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php)

The logical conclusion is that if I do not Learn Arabic then I may not be following the teachings sufficiently accurately and am as a result doomed to Hellfire for eternity, which seems a bit of a rough deal.
This is particulary so as there are many human's on the planet still leading honest decent lives in remote areas who have not even heard of the Quran. Humanity also started many years before it's message was written. Were they too all cast into the fire? This does not seem very compassionate nor indeed logical. Why would an all powerful deity place humanity all over the planet but only give a handfull the tools of salvation?

Praise be to Allaah.

It is part of the justice of Allaah that He does not punish any people until He has first sent a warning to them and unless there is evidence against them. Allaah does not treat anybody unfairly. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “… And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning).” [al-Israa’ 17:15].

In his tafseer (commentary) on this aayah, Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “These words, ‘…And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning)’ tell us of the justice of Allaah, may He be exalted, and that He does not punish anyone until after He has established evidence against him by sending a Messenger to him. This is like the aayat (interpretation of the meaning): ‘… Every time a group is cast therein [into Hell], its keeper will ask, “Did no warner come to you?” They will say, “Yes indeed; a warner did come to us, but we belied him and said: ‘Allaah never sent down anything (of revelation), you are only in great error.’”’ [al-Mulk 67:8] and: ‘And those who disbelieved will be driven to Hell in groups, till, when they reach it, the gates thereof will be opened (suddenly like a prison at the arrival of its prisoners). And its keepers will say, “Did not the Messengers come to you from yourselves, - reciting to you the Verses of your Lord, and warning you of the Meeting of this Day of yours?” They will say: “Yes, but the Word of torment has been justified against the disbelievers!”’ [al-Zumar 39:71]…”

A person who has never heard of Islam or the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and who has never heard the message in its correct and true form, will not be punished by Allaah if he dies in a state of kufr (disbelief). If it were asked what his fate will be, the answer will be that Allaah will test him on the Day of Resurrection: if he obeys, he will enter Paradise and if he disobeys he will enter Hell. The evidence (daleel) for this is the hadeeth of al-Aswad ibn Saree’, who reported that the Prophet of Allaah SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There are four (who will protest) to Allaah on the Day of Resurrection: the deaf man who never heard anything, the insane man, the very old man, and the man who died during the fatrah (the interval between the time of ‘Eesaa (Jesus, upon whom be peace) and the time of Muhammad SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)). The deaf man will say, ‘O Lord, Islam came but I never heard anything.’ The insane man will say, ‘O Lord, Islam came but the children ran after me and threw stones at me.’ The very old man will say, ‘O Lord, Islam came but I did not understand anything.’ The man who died during the fatrah will say, ‘O Lord, no Messenger from You came to me.’ He will accept their promises of obedience, then word will be sent to them to enter the Fire. By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, if they enter it, it will be cool and safe for them.”

According to another report, he said: “Whoever enters it, it will be cool and safe for him, and whoever does not enter it will be dragged to it.” (The hadeeth was reported by Imaam Ahmad and Ibn Hibbaan, and deemed saheeh by al-Albaani, Saheeh al-Jaami’, 881).

Everyone who hears the message of Islam in a sound and correct form (and rejects it), will have evidence aginst him. Whoever dies without having heard the message, or having heard it in a distorted form, then his case is in the hands of Allaah. Allaah knows best about His creation, and He will never treat anyone unfairly. And Allaah is All-Seer of His slaves.

11-23-2008, 09:54 PM
Hi my dear friend

They may also be a bit put out by you telling them that they are the greatest evil on this Earth.

Who said is this speech???

This speech is not right

I not understand this question

Did you mean?

Muslims do not Love Jesus peace be upon him

If he was this

(read this well)

Quran (http://www.quranexplorer.com/Quran/Default.aspx)


Lo! those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers, and seek to make distinction between Allah and His messengers, and say: We believe in some and disbelieve in others, and seek to choose a way in between; (150) Such are disbelievers in truth; and for disbelievers We prepare a shameful doom. (151) But those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make no distinction between any of them, unto them Allah will give their wages; and Allah was ever Forgiving, Merciful. (152) The people of the Scripture ask of thee that thou shouldst cause an (actual) Book to descend upon them from heaven. They asked a greater thing of Moses aforetime, for they said: Show us Allah plainly. The storm of lightning seized them for their wickedness. Then (even) after that) they chose the calf (for worship) after clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty) had come unto them. And We forgave them that! And We bestowed on Moses evident authority. (153) And We caused the Mount to tower above them at (the taking of) their covenant: and We bade them: Enter the gate, prostrate! and We bade them: Transgress not the Sabbath! and We took from them a firm covenant. (154) Then because of their breaking of their covenant, and their disbelieving in the revelations of Allah, and their slaying of the prophets wrongfully, and their saying: Our hearts are hardened - Nay, but Allah set a seal upon them for their disbelief, so that they believe not save a few - (155) And because of their disbelief and of their speaking against Mary a tremendous calumny; (156) And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain. (157) But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise. (158) There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them - (159) Because of the wrongdoing of the Jews We forbade them good things which were (before) made lawful unto them, and because of their much hindering from Allah's way, (160) And of their taking usury when they were forbidden it, and of their devouring people's wealth by false pretences, We have prepared for those of them who disbelieve a painful doom. (161) But those of them who are firm in knowledge and the believers believe in that which is revealed unto thee, and that which was revealed before thee, especially the diligent in prayer and those who pay the poor-due, the believers in Allah and the Last Day. Upon these We shall bestow immense reward. (162) Lo! We inspire thee as We inspired Noah and the prophets after him, as We inspired Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and Jesus and Job and Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and as We imparted unto David the Psalms; (163) And messengers We have mentioned unto thee before and messengers We have not mentioned unto thee; and Allah spake directly unto Moses; (164) Messengers of good cheer and of warning, in order that mankind might have no argument against Allah after the messengers. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise. (165) But Allah (Himself) testifieth concerning that which He hath revealed unto thee; in His knowledge hath He revealed it; and the Angels also testify. And Allah is sufficient Witness. (166) Lo! those who disbelieve and hinder (others) from the way of Allah, they verily have wandered far astray. (167) Lo! those who disbelieve and deal in wrong, Allah will never forgive them, neither will He guide them unto a road, (168) Except the road of hell, wherein they will abide for ever. And that is ever easy for Allah. (169) O mankind! The messenger hath come unto you with the Truth from your Lord. Therefor believe; (it is) better for you. But if ye disbelieve, still, lo! unto Allah belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth. Allah is ever Knower, Wise. (170) O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender. (171) The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah, nor will the favoured angels. Whoso scorneth His service and is proud, all such will He assemble unto Him; (172) Then, as for those who believed and did good works, unto them will He pay their wages in full, adding unto them of His bounty; and as for those who were scornful and proud, them will He punish with a painful doom. And they will not find for them, against Allah, any protecting friend or helper. (173) O mankind! Now hath a proof from your Lord come unto you, and We have sent down unto you a clear light; (174) As for those who believe in Allah, and hold fast unto Him, them He will cause to enter into His mercy and grace, and will guide them unto Him by a straight road. (175)

Whoever disbelieves in the message of one of them has disbelieved in all of them, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“The people of Nooh (Noah) belied the Messengers”

[al-Shu’ara’ 26:105]

Allaah described them as disbelieving in all of the Messengers even though there was no Messenger other than Nooh at the time when they disbelieved.

Belief in those Messengers whose names we know, such as Muhammad, Ibraaheem, Moosa, ‘Eesa and Nooh (may blessings and peace be upon them all). With regard to those who have been mentioned in general terms but whose names we do not know, we are obliged to believe in them in general terms, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“The Messenger (Muhammad) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allaah, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. (They say,) ‘We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers’”

[al-Baqarah 2:285]

11-25-2008, 09:46 PM
Pass the charcoal my friends. Need to draw a line _____________
yeah, nice one, thanks ;o)
a baby can regurgitate, it takes a man to think................

12-07-2008, 08:48 AM
Dearest Ahmad,

Thank you for sharing your views on Islam on this forum, and you certainly are a being with great care for humanity.

You know, I have been raised a Muslim and I know different sects of Islam pretty well. I was trying so hard to be a good Muslim that so much fear filled in my heart, you know what I mean, fear of punishment which leads to fear of death, and Allah of course. And also I was working on making as much as Muslims as possible, because I thought that, Islam is the ultimate truth. Quran mentions that Allah is light, but he also has severe punishments, and that drove me crazy, what kind of God is this God?

Suddenly I asked myself, what am I doing on Earth? I have confused my whole life with religion, that I have forgotten what religion meant to be for the humankind. I now know that there is no ultimate truth, and the truth is what you mostly believe in, creation is that flexible. Truth is you yourself, the human being, the truth is your feelings and emotions, the truth is love and light ... The universe is you and your soul is God's.

May Allah fill more light than ever onto you

12-08-2008, 01:34 AM
Read this, my friend elias

What is the Origin of God? (http://www.godallah.com/)

50 Questions And Answers
On Monotheism in Islam (http://www.islamtomorrow.com/50_questions.asp)

I answer more of yours tomorrow God willing.

Because today is the Eid Al-Adha

Listen to this