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Sephiroth
09-02-2008, 06:28 PM
Starting this thread for the discussion of John Bedini's Monopole Energizer as outlined in this patent:

US Patent 6545444 (2003)
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT6545444
(oddly google is giving me "Internal Server Error" just for this patent)

http://www.rexresearch.com/bedini/6545-1.gif
(image hosted by Rex Research (http://www.rexresearch.com))

Full details of the patents can be found on Rex Research
www.rexresearch.com/ bedini/bedini.htm


The main differnece between the Monopole Energizer from the SSG and Schoolgirl Motor is primarily the fact that it charges a capacitor with the flyback voltage and then discharges the charged capacitor (by any means eg, mechanical contact, SCR, or relay) into a charging battery bank.

Also, the front end isn't directly connected to the back end as in the SSG. A recovery coil is used and so the coil is normally Trifilar (one primary coil, one recovery coil, and a trigger coil) though it can have many more wires.

It is said that this is the setup neccessary to swap the batteries indefinatly as it converts the output of the coils into a form of energy that is better suited to run inductive loads than direct output into the battery.

It is recommended to use high farad capacitors and to discharge them around 2 volts above the charging voltage.

If multiple coils are to be used, then their recovery windings should be wired in series assuming they are synchronous. However, if the coils are firing independant to each other, then each recovery winding will require its own bridge recifier before being wired in parellel to the capacitor.

The trigger winding can also be substituted for another method of triggering. Bedini has been known to use a Hall Sensor.

I think that is everything covered :) Other than the differences listed above it is pretty much identical to the SSG setup.

theremart
09-02-2008, 10:01 PM
FYI..

Thanks Seph for opening this up :)

ren
09-02-2008, 11:16 PM
Something interesting is to measure the voltage at the bridge without a capacitor or load in place. While monitoring it connect the negative leg of the bridge back to the - of the battery:)

I have a monopole at home that has the negative of the bridge tied back to the emitter, and the positive to the cap. The negative of the cap is connected to the positive of the run battery. Interesting results.

I also think that there is something about the mechanical contact in the positive leg of the circuit. Something different to the cap pulser.

gmeat
09-02-2008, 11:49 PM
[quote=ren;28244]Something interesting is to measure the voltage at the bridge without a capacitor or load in place. While monitoring it connect the negative leg of the bridge back to the - of the battery:)

I have a monopole at home that has the negative of the bridge tied back to the emitter, and the positive to the cap. The negative of the cap is connected to the positive of the run battery. Interesting results.




Hi Ren,


Thats an interesting idea,How did the run battery hold up.If you dont mind me asking


-Gary

Sephiroth
09-03-2008, 05:18 PM
I'm trying it now...

I set my cap to charge to 2 volts before discharging and then altered the configuration to the way Ren suggested. The cap now charges to just over 1 volt in the same time but the primary battery is dropping very slowly... pretty much at a standstill in fact but it has only been running for half an hour so too early to tell if the apparently extended run time out-weighs the cost of the extra charge in the caps... will let you know how it goes.

theremart
09-04-2008, 03:01 PM
With the monopole, how much voltage/amps should be the max for 6 transistors ( I am trying to gauge how hard I should be driving my setup )?


Watching the videos of Bedini, he uses up to 10 AMP on the large machine, and much less for the smaller machines.

Sephiroth
09-04-2008, 09:22 PM
I find 200-300ma to be about average per winding. It will probably vary a bit depending on wire guage, length of wire, number of turns etc... anything over 500ma would be too much and would generate alot of heat.

Not absolutly sure about the configuration of John's big monopole, but I believe I read somewhere that each coil has 5 windings. My guess is that 4 of those windings on each coil are primary/slave windings which would make 250ma per transistor.

I think the fifth winding on each coil would be a recovery winding and I don't think it has a trigger coil.

If all 5 windings are primary/slaves then it would be 200ma per transistor.

Sephiroth
09-04-2008, 09:28 PM
Then again, I don't think he is running it on 12 volts either... I think it is 48v. With 12v I find a 25% (approx) duty cycle gives the best rpm so a higher voltage might reduce his duty cycle to around 6-7%... but I'm just speculating...

does any know if John has posted the complete details of his big monopole anywhere?

theremart
09-04-2008, 10:48 PM
From

John Bedini and Peter Lindemann's Medium and Large Motor-Energizer Project (http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Inventors/JohnBedini/SG/Feb2005/)


"In the last few months, John and I have built two large, multi-coil machines. One of them runs on 24 volt, 450 amp-hour batteries and charges a second equally large battery bank. The second one runs on 24 volt, 1600 amp-hour batteries and charges a second set of equal size. This last unit is our first set of experiments with a battery large enough to run a solar home! At the end of the charge cycle, these 1600 amp-hour batteries are boiling at 31.2 volts!"

ren
09-05-2008, 02:16 AM
I'm trying it now...

I set my cap to charge to 2 volts before discharging and then altered the configuration to the way Ren suggested. The cap now charges to just over 1 volt in the same time but the primary battery is dropping very slowly... pretty much at a standstill in fact but it has only been running for half an hour so too early to tell if the apparently extended run time out-weighs the cost of the extra charge in the caps... will let you know how it goes.


Its an interesting config. Sep, try tweaking your base resistance on the front end while monitoring voltage in the cap. I posted a thread about this earlier but no one replied/noticed. I found that at certain resistances voltage in the cap was higher, and it wasnt necessarily the lowest resistance. I think the thread I posted was called alternate tuning method.

I found that it did extend run times on the front end somewhat.

patmac
09-05-2008, 01:22 PM
ren

I've modified my SG, to runnit with Hall IC and trigger coil as recovery....

I can not, controll amp drawing, so. Now S pole

SETUP N-S-N-S, give good torque but amp drawing is up :D

What you think?

darkwizard
09-05-2008, 02:47 PM
Hi patmac, i have succesfully modified my bedini sg with the hall sensor ic, it switches with north and south (es211 http://www.eastera.com.cn/data/ES211-ENb_a.pdf ), i put 2 power coils with two mosfets irf740b, 12 volts battery, a voltage divider for irf740b (basically two resistors), it draws 200ma at 12v and it run like a tornado and have significant torque, and the back emf production is ok, plus i have a additional coil on the back of the power coil, YES on the back and is producing some unusual power 6 volts 100 ma.

One power coil drives the south magnet and another power coil drives the north magnet, so no especial and difficult circuit is needed .

I will upgrade it, so no videos because it looks horrible.

selamatg
09-05-2008, 03:03 PM
Hi patmac, i have succesfully modified my bedini sg with the hall sensor ic, it switches with north and south (es211 http://www.eastera.com.cn/data/ES211-ENb_a.pdf ), i put 2 power coils with two mosfets irf740b, 12 volts battery, a voltage divider for irf740b (basically two resistors), it draws 200ma at 12v and it run like a tornado and have significant torque, and the back emf production is ok, plus i have a additional coil on the back of the power coil, YES on the back and is producing some unusual power 6 volts 100 ma.

One power coil drives the south magnet and another power coil drives the north magnet, so no especial and difficult circuit is needed .

I will upgrade it, so no videos beacause it's look horrible.

Hi Darkwizard,

May you post the schematic?

Selamatg

darkwizard
09-05-2008, 03:21 PM
This is not the thread, but:http://www.energeticforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1120&stc=1&d=1220628240

This is all reed switch/mosfet motor, it will run with south and north , but you have to do a special timing wheel. I have modified my circuit with hall sensor ic but my software doesn't have the hall sensor option, so i havenīt schematics with the upgraded circuit. Sorry!

In order to switch correctly the mosfets with the reed switch you will put a special timing wheel, i canīt explain how to do the timing wheel because my english is so limited. :(

I have upgraded my mosfet pulse motor with the hall sensor, like in a cooler 0pc fan.

darkwizard
09-05-2008, 03:43 PM
In order to have the circuit performing you will use the mosfet that the schematic shows, so if you have to put 24 volts input power you will calculate the resistor with the simple voltage divider ecuation, irf740b is rated for 10 volts max for gate voltage, so if you don't want destroy the mosfet you will do like in the schematic!

I have upgraded my circuit with hall sensors but it is on my head, my software is limited and doesn't have a hall sensor in order to do the schematic! sorry

The extra coils, are not showed in the diagram, but it is the Doug Konzen idea.

I have been doing like Bedini will do, thinkering with it, it is the right track, build it, love it and thinkering with it, because it is a living thing , vacuum energy is doing his job.

The Tree of life contains the sephiroth that are the fruits of life.

patmac
09-05-2008, 05:15 PM
good job darkwizard...

We can obtain good torque by modified our SG....

Sephiroth
09-05-2008, 09:04 PM
Its an interesting config. Sep, try tweaking your base resistance on the front end while monitoring voltage in the cap. I posted a thread about this earlier but no one replied/noticed. I found that at certain resistances voltage in the cap was higher, and it wasnt necessarily the lowest resistance. I think the thread I posted was called alternate tuning method.

I found that it did extend run times on the front end somewhat.

Hi Ren, Still experimenting with the configuration but don't think I can see the effect you mentioned yet... were you using a bridge rectifier? Was it a multi coil? How many pulses per magnet pass were there when the effect showed up? Do you know what the pulse duration was? Sorry for all the questions!

Sephiroth
09-05-2008, 10:12 PM
Damn! I've just been banished back to solid state by neibours complaining about the noise! :sshh: 3000 rpm is more than they can handle at 1am.

Might have to construct a bicycle wheel rotor :)

Bodkins
09-08-2008, 06:52 PM
Starting this thread for the discussion of John Bedini's Monopole Energizer as outlined in this patent:

US Patent 6545444 (2003)
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT6545444
(oddly google is giving me "Internal Server Error" just for this patent)

http://www.rexresearch.com/bedini/6545-1.gif
(image hosted by Rex Research (http://www.rexresearch.com))

Full details of the patents can be found on Rex Research
www.rexresearch.com/ bedini/bedini.htm


The main differnece between the Monopole Energizer from the SSG and Schoolgirl Motor is primarily the fact that it charges a capacitor with the flyback voltage and then discharges the charged capacitor (by any means eg, mechanical contact, SCR, or relay) into a charging battery bank.

Also, the front end isn't directly connected to the back end as in the SSG. A recovery coil is used and so the coil is normally Trifilar (one primary coil, one recovery coil, and a trigger coil) though it can have many more wires.

It is said that this is the setup neccessary to swap the batteries indefinatly as it converts the output of the coils into a form of energy that is better suited to run inductive loads than direct output into the battery.

It is recommended to use high farad capacitors and to discharge them around 2 volts above the charging voltage.

If multiple coils are to be used, then their recovery windings should be wired in series assuming they are synchronous. However, if the coils are firing independant to each other, then each recovery winding will require its own bridge recifier before being wired in parellel to the capacitor.

The trigger winding can also be substituted for another method of triggering. Bedini has been known to use a Hall Sensor.

I think that is everything covered :) Other than the differences listed above it is pretty much identical to the SSG setup.

Look at the different grounding symbols ones a normal ground ones a earth battery!
Its important for the energy recovery check the earth battery thread.
bedini Energizer are pumps!!!

dambit
09-09-2008, 02:55 AM
I was watching the DVD again (5 gazillionth time:rofl: ) and in it JB states that the monopoles machines that don't use capacitors are an advancment over the capacitor version. And a lot simpler imo.

Is there a benifit to using the caps?

Cheers,

Steve

Shamus
09-09-2008, 03:53 AM
One thing to keep in mind is that what John Bedini said during the filming may or may not be what he holds today. The most striking example is the pendulum; during the filming of that segment the pendulum looked very promising but in the end turned out to be not so great, at least from a battery charging standpoint.

I've ruminated long and hard over the 'SSG is more advanced than the capacitor version' quote myself and having built a variety of Bedini machines, I'm not convinced. It could be that they are and I just can't see it; YMMV. :) I will say that the capacitor version is interesting and it does have at least one advantage over the SSG version: you can swap batteries from back end to front end with the capacitor version.

One quote that I do believe is still relevant and important: "It's the spike. It's always been the spike." (emphasis mine)

dambit
09-09-2008, 08:12 AM
Hi Shamus,

I agree, and It has been a while since filming. The pendulum is a good example of long term results differing from the short term. But I am seeing good results with the SG so for the moment I will keep on that.

I guess it is easier to switch the batteries on the capacitor version, but it can be done with the normal sg. Allbeit a little trickier perhaps :D

In the end, if the batteries are charging, great. :thumbsup:

Cheers,

Steve

P.S. what is YMMV?

kokerich
09-09-2008, 10:48 AM
Is it possible to use optosensor instead of winding/reed/hall switching method?
I use optosensing in Lindeman's attraction motor and it worked great so I wonder cos I'm intending to build SSG.

theremart
09-09-2008, 11:42 AM
One thing to keep in mind is that what John Bedini said during the filming may or may not be what he holds today. The most striking example is the pendulum; during the filming of that segment the pendulum looked very promising but in the end turned out to be not so great, at least from a battery charging standpoint.

I've ruminated long and hard over the 'SSG is more advanced than the capacitor version' quote myself and having built a variety of Bedini machines, I'm not convinced. It could be that they are and I just can't see it; YMMV. :) I will say that the capacitor version is interesting and it does have at least one advantage over the SSG version: you can swap batteries from back end to front end with the capacitor version.

One quote that I do believe is still relevant and important: "It's the spike. It's always been the spike." (emphasis mine)

I believe the words have to be taken in the context of what he is saying. Just like when he says "it is not the current that charges the batteries" the context of what he is speaking it is in regards to --compared to conventional charging--- in comparison to conventional charging the systems use very little current, but yet, they still do use current.

I have for myself found the cap is a great sponge for energy on the charging side, and, it also is a boost for the RPMS of the motor. It seems to hold the energy till the battery is ready for it. This is why I think bedini uses such a large cap in front with solar charging...

theremart
10-04-2008, 01:05 PM
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9755/rollercoastercharging12gm1.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rollercoastercharging12gm1.jpg)http://img143.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

I did this charging on my battery with my 6 transistor monopole energizer, the same battery that I was using on my solid state, but in testing found the voltage climb extreme after being on the solid state device.

The battery is 12 amp hours, the charge was 20V 2 amps for about 12 hours. Today I will test how many amp hours I can get from fully charged down to 10.5 V with a draw of .6 amps..

theremart
10-05-2008, 12:07 PM
I got 13.5 amp hours from the battery that is rated at 12 amp hours.

http://i37.tinypic.com/2isct2t.jpg

theremart
11-20-2008, 05:44 PM
Well, I now have some speaker wire that I am planning on trying as a coil for my SSG, then if it tests well might move up to the monopole with it.

The old Bedini_SG group on yahoo states that Roamer recomended 100ft of this to make a coil for large golf cart batteries... ( from the starters guide part II ) I will check this out and see if I can get it to work.

Mart

theremart
11-20-2008, 05:51 PM
I was watching the DVD again (5 gazillionth time:rofl: ) and in it JB states that the monopoles machines that don't use capacitors are an advancment over the capacitor version. And a lot simpler imo.

Is there a benifit to using the caps?

Cheers,

Steve

----------------------------------------------
The benefit is you don't have to use an inverter for the negatively charged batteries. ( per the Bedini advice ) That all seems very mysterious to me as I have not seen an experiment that proves this as of yet.

Since the caps also hold the voltage it seems to boost the primary side as well as create a higher pulse to the charging battery. I have notice if I use a cap with my night lite it glows much brighter than if I do not.

Yes I have seen that video... for 20 gazillion time too. :) :)

theremart
04-20-2009, 04:09 PM
Very nice clean setup.

YouTube - Three Pole Monopole (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3mWUMXkSI0)

RPMGT.org/order.html


http://rpmgt.org/3PoleMonopole1.jpg

ren
04-20-2009, 09:18 PM
nice huh. I posted this in the Sg thread too. Very well presented, the LEDs are a nice touch

Sephiroth
04-20-2009, 09:38 PM
Thanks guys! That is a beautiful creation!

:hearts:

rob.rice
02-08-2010, 12:24 AM
Hi patmac, i have succesfully modified my bedini sg with the hall sensor ic, it switches with north and south (es211 http://www.eastera.com.cn/data/ES211-ENb_a.pdf ), i put 2 power coils with two mosfets irf740b, 12 volts battery, a voltage divider for irf740b (basically two resistors), it draws 200ma at 12v and it run like a tornado and have significant torque, and the back emf production is ok, plus i have a additional coil on the back of the power coil, YES on the back and is producing some unusual power 6 volts 100 ma.

One power coil drives the south magnet and another power coil drives the north magnet, so no especial and difficult circuit is needed .

I will upgrade it, so no videos because it looks horrible.

that motor controller looks like just the thing to use as the base of a capacitor discharge circuit
use one phase to charge the capacitor then the other phase to discharge it replace the hall effect sensor with a 555timer then get it bouncing as fast as you want
size the capacitor just under the joules the inductor can hold in it's magnetic feald

for get the mechanical parts (replaced with the 555timer IC)forget winding the biflier coil (use just about transformer coil in or out of the transformer )

theremart
02-08-2010, 12:41 PM
YouTube - OFFICIAL BEDINI 10 COIL KIT INFOMERCIAL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA2KtZ45nXA)

The video is well put together.

Questions:

1. Is this the exact same circuit that is demonstrated in the EFV 2? I know the coil setup is, but is the circuit...

2. What is the tested output of this setup how many batteries, and how long to charge?

3. Who is going to be the first to purchase, and show a youtube video of the results?

4. It is dubbed "experimental" I wonder what the support will be?

Appears to be a big step forward, but there is much room for failure as it has to be assembled, wonder if they would see just the assembly video by itself?