Bedini's cap pulser

[Mario]

...Continued from the 3 battery generating system thread where we started talking about JB's cap pulser...

Mario,


No, on the front was a single garden starter battery - those things are ballpark around maybe 12ah. Being starter batteries, they of course don't have an amp hour rating, but ballpark can divide the CCA by 10 and that will give a ballpark. But over all the time using those things, they seem to be around a 12ah just from experience. That was the only thing on the front.



On the back, it was the 4 x 12v strings of those Korean war batteries that were constants. Those were ballpark around 12ah each for 48ah + another garden starter battery on the back at 12ah for 60ah total.



12 on front and 60 on back.



Korean war batteries stayed on the back and never got swapped. Just the garden starter batteries on front and back were swapped back and forth.


That's around 7-8 watts draw from the front battery at c20 but again a starter battery so the numbers don't exactly work out but close enough for ballpark estimates. The machine probably drew more. With one coil on either side of the rotor - I don't know. I'll measure the draw when I have time. A single coil SG with 7-8 power windings and a trigger draws around 20 watts ballpark. It's probably not too far from that for both coils on either side of the rotor.



There are ways to mimick the mechanical switch - Paul Babcock's switching circuit is probably the best ever designed, but no, use mechanical. There is something to the mechanical that allows for some extra radiant gains that I don't think can be had with solid state. If you have the Advanced SG book, the details on that switch are given.


Yes, the 3 battery / Tesla Switch type systems came way before this specific mechanical switch cap dump method I believe. I don't know if I'd look at it in terms of an evolution of what he was looking at - he just wanted to explore all methods possible.



We can dedicate another thread to this machine. I only brought it up because IF the constant batteries are something that can be used in the 3 battery system, even on the front end, it might be something that has benefit - I don't know.

Hi Aaron,

sorry, I had misunderstood the battery setup, I get it now.

About the switch, in the advanced SG book Peter lists the various switching methods, but he also says that the highest cop he'd seen was with John's latest programmed mosfet switching (which after him explaining what the wave looks like I have no problem replicating) so I really don't know if a physical switch or electronic is better...

The switching device he lists has 40 milliohms. The ones I have are 3.7 or 7.2 milliohms, with max 60ns rise/fall times.

I believe John's pulser has 2 trifilar coils, so separate pick up coils? So the 2 mosfets I've seen in the EFTV video could simply be two MJL's running the 2 SG coils, or a Cole switch running them in parallel, don't know.

cheers,
Mario

[Aaron]

big cap dumps

...Continued from the 3 battery generating system thread where we started talking about JB's cap pulser...



Hi Aaron,

sorry, I had misunderstood the battery setup, I get it now.

About the switch, in the advanced SG book Peter lists the various switching methods, but he also says that the highest cop he'd seen was with John's latest programmed mosfet switching (which after him explaining what the wave looks like I have no problem replicating) so I really don't know if a physical switch or electronic is better...

The switching device he lists has 40 milliohms. The ones I have are 3.7 or 7.2 milliohms, with max 60ns rise/fall times.

I believe John's pulser has 2 trifilar coils, so separate pick up coils? So the 2 mosfets I've seen in the EFTV video could simply be two MJL's running the 2 SG coils, or a Cole switch running them in parallel, don't know.

cheers,
Mario

I'd have to clarify the mechanical vs mosfet with Peter probably. It's been so long. But I believe the variation with the batteries on back where the batteries being swapped never had to be charged up externally was definitely the mechanical switch.



For the machine and it's circuit - I'll take some pics soon.


One thing I need to mention, which hasn't been discussed in ages is that with very large capacitance dumps to the battery, like those 333,333 uf dumps at a few volts above the battery, after doing that a while, you can stop the cap dumps and that battery will continue to charge for quite a while with real load powering capability - it's not a gimmick or some fluffy static charge.



With a trifilar SG, the isolated recovery wire charged a cap bank I had - paralleled 60v 33,000 uf caps maybe 6 of them for almost 200,000 uf. There was a pulley timed so that it discharged with a copper bush switch into some 7ah 12v gel cell scooter batteries - it discharged every few seconds when the caps were around 15v or so. I'd charge it 30 min to an hour and then shut it off. For an entire 1 hour afterward, those batteries would continue to charge right on up! I'd then put those batteries into an old scooter and would ride it down the street to John's shop from where I was working and drove it back - real load powering capability for sure.

I didn't do any measured draw down tests to see if that self-charge up from the big cap dumps had a gain or not, but it is easy enough to test. Once those current impulses get the lead acid battery put in charging mode, the momentum gets going and there is no stopping it. Seems obvious that in between the pulses, that charge mode is sustained so total charging very well could be more than can be accounted for from the cap dumps.

If we know the 20 hour discharge rate and volts to know how many joules there are from full charge down to 10.5 or whatever, then we can calculate how many cap dumps of a certain capacitance would equal that and then deliver that many cap dumps just to do the comparison of did it charge with less, equal or more than.

We don't get that effect with inductive spike charging, steady current charging or small cap dump charging. It only happens with really large capacitance dumps.

[Mario]

Hi Aaron,

it would indeed be great to have Peter's opinion about a comparison between the latest automated 24 pulser which, according to him gives the highest COP for an SG ever seen, or the mechanic 3V above battery dump with high capacity caps.

Also, what voltages on run and charge batteries right before swapping should we be looking for? I think John said to never let the run battery go under 12.4V if I recall well.

I read somewhere that batteries have the lowest impedance when they are charged. I always thought it's lowest when they are discharged, I may be wrong..

About charging with huge caps at low voltages, I've never seen batteries climb after turning off the pulser, and I've used like 200'000uF dumps. Maybe it happens only with gel cell batts? Did it do this quite right away or did you have to do many cycles before seeing this (of course with desulphated batteries)?

cheers,
Mario

[Aaron]

cap discharge

Hi Aaron,

it would indeed be great to have Peter's opinion about a comparison between the latest automated 24 pulser which, according to him gives the highest COP for an SG ever seen, or the mechanic 3V above battery dump with high capacity caps.

Also, what voltages on run and charge batteries right before swapping should we be looking for? I think John said to never let the run battery go under 12.4V if I recall well.

I read somewhere that batteries have the lowest impedance when they are charged. I always thought it's lowest when they are discharged, I may be wrong..

About charging with huge caps at low voltages, I've never seen batteries climb after turning off the pulser, and I've used like 200'000uF dumps. Maybe it happens only with gel cell batts? Did it do this quite right away or did you have to do many cycles before seeing this (of course with desulphated batteries)?

cheers,
Mario

The charging after disconnect effect - I don't recall it being limited to gel cells. All I can say without further clarification is that it absolutely does work on gel cells.



I'll try to remember to as Peter about those switching differences the next time I talk to Peter.

[Mario]

One thing I need to mention, which hasn't been discussed in ages is that with very large capacitance dumps to the battery, like those 333,333 uf dumps at a few volts above the battery, after doing that a while, you can stop the cap dumps and that battery will continue to charge for quite a while with real load powering capability - it's not a gimmick or some fluffy static charge.



With a trifilar SG, the isolated recovery wire charged a cap bank I had - paralleled 60v 33,000 uf caps maybe 6 of them for almost 200,000 uf. There was a pulley timed so that it discharged with a copper bush switch into some 7ah 12v gel cell scooter batteries - it discharged every few seconds when the caps were around 15v or so. I'd charge it 30 min to an hour and then shut it off. For an entire 1 hour afterward, those batteries would continue to charge right on up! I'd then put those batteries into an old scooter and would ride it down the street to John's shop from where I was working and drove it back - real load powering capability for sure.

Hi Aaron,

I still can't see the"after-charge" effect. Could you be a bit more specific?

- How many 7Ah gel cell batts did you charge with the 200'000uF dumps?
- Every how many seconds did it dump? 2 secs, 5 secs, 10 secs..?
- What condition were they in?
- From what voltage up to what voltage did you (they) charge up to?
- Is the 3 voltage above the battery a precise measurement with a scope or just an estimate viewed with voltmeter? It can make a huge difference as if your voltmeter occasionally shows you 15V peak, in reality with a scope you would see it actually dumps at 18 or 20V...

I'm using 7Ah VRLA (AGM) batts that are pulse cycled and in good shape, pulsing 200'000 uF and don't see this effect.

cheers,
Mario

[Aaron]

Sometimes 1 of the 7ah gel cells and sometimes 2 in parallel.

I timed the pulley so that the mechanical contact discharged that cap bank into those gel cells when the cap bank was about 14-15 volts, just a couple volts above the batteries. That's like 23 years ago - it might have been once every 5-15 seconds ballpark range.

The batteries were in decent condition. I charged them up a number of times with the 24v 2-3 amp scooter charger and they ran the scooter fine. No idea how many minutes of run time I got.

Those batts would run down quite a bit below 12 volts - I don't remember where they bottomed out but I abused the heck out of them. When using them on the scooter, I'd run them until the scooter died. But I used them on the trifilar SG more than I used them on the scooter. I didn't have money back then so had to use them for multiple things but the scooter and SG definitely went together. Charging those batts with a Bedini SG, putting them in a scooter and driving it down to Bedini's shop I'd have to say was pretty cool. lol

The 2-3 volts above battery was a simple multimeter set to volts on the charge battery and I may have had a second one on the cap bank. I know I could clearly see the mechanical discharge switch on the pulley discharged it when it was a couple volts above the charge batteries. That is what John recommended so that is what I did. He was impressed with my mechanical discharge switch because he liked mechanical switches - the don't have any voltage drops to speak of compared to components plus the spark may (or may not) have some radiant element to it.

How long did you discharge that bit cap dump to the 7ah agm?

I don't see why an agm wouldn't work - mine were the gel cells exactly like what you find in alarm systems, garage door opener backups, exit flood lamps, etc.

I don't know what brand my batts were - I might have them in my shop but they're virtually identical to these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...SIN=B00AAZJ9Y8

John had that continued charge effect from big cap dumps on other batteries like lead acids, etc.

Since we were talking about "stealing the surface charge" in the RPG thread, the self runner John had with the Korean war batts on the back - that was in his shop, which was named "the palace" (friends of John would know what building and that puts a chronology to it) - that particular unit was the very unit and demo where I think I first heard the concept of "stealing the surface charge" and it was those Korean war batteries he was doing it with.

That was before Peter moved to Spokane to work for John and was right after Peter's cold electricity book came out. I remember because John recommended that I get a copy of Peter's book so that was around 2001 I think because right around then, I remember I was working at a vitamin store on the south part of town and I had a conversation with Peter on the phone and that was the first time I talked to him.

The cap John used on that system was like a big 1F cap typically used on the big woofer systems in cars.

[Mario]

How long did you discharge that bit cap dump to the 7ah agm?

Thanks Aaron,

I did full cycles with them, sometimes stopped to see if they would keep going on their own, but I may have had 4 in parallel for a total of 27 Ah. Cap was about 200.000 uF, big caps.

One think I'd like to try is a *Batt pulser", meaning instead of a big cap I'd use a 7 Ah battery, charged by the solid state SG spikes and dumped to the front batt every few seconds, ever tried that?

Since we're talking about this stuff, how the heck did John get a 1:12 charging ratio in the famous TÜV test? From the pics I've seen it looked like a small cap pulser SG? Apparently there's a Craddock movie (EFV series) but no info on where to get it anywhere....

regards,
Mario

[Aaron]

If you want to try to replicate the self-charging while disconnected, I would use only 1 x 7 ah battery on the back being charged by the big cap dump.

Not sure what you mean by full cycle. Just put a big deep cycle or starter battery on the front and let it run so that you are charging that 7ah battery for like an hour straight then disconnect it and monitor the voltage. There's no need to try to swap batteries to the front. For this test, you could just put a dc power supply on the front with a cap across the terminals.

No to the batt pulser, I have an endless list of things I could try.

The TUV test was with a small version of my bicycle wheel with pulley from what I remember. He posted the diagram for that along with the original SG schematics on Keeleynet years ago. It was that trifilar cap charger with pulley that I replicated after my first SG, which was with a roller skate wheel. It was literally that "dual battery charger" pulley schematic that was used for that TUV test. I haven't looked at that stuff in years.

[jettis]

Hi Mario I believe this is one of the TUV motors… If memory serves the TUV videos from Tony Craddock does not show the 1:12 device, they only show this one which did not do 1:1 as far as I could tell. I was a little disappointed as I was hoping to see 1:12. But to be fair I should watch them again to be sure my memory is correct.

IMG_4514.jpeg
IMG_4515.jpeg

Dave Wing

[Aaron]

Dave, which one was the 1:12?

[jettis]

Dave, which one was the 1:12?

Aaron, I looked for my Energy From the Vacuum videos and could not find any of them, they are misplaced and I’m not sure where I would have put them. When I find them I will rewatch the TUV test DVD’s and report back what I find.

The machine in the TUV videos was the one I posted above, but I’m not sure if it had the potted output circuit, you see on the discharge section after the contacts.

Dave Wing

[Mario]

Hi Aaron and Dave,

the only place I can read about this film is here: https://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php...ticle&sid=3939

but it isn't available anywhere as far as I can see.

But if you say they don't even show the 1:12 SG it's very disappointing to say the least... Anyway ,there must be something VERY different to that motor to achieve such a ratio with tiny batts!!

So you never saw this Aaron?

regards,
Mario

[jettis]

Hello Mario, Here is a link from wayback machine in the TUV testing…

https://web.archive.org/web/20220114...TUV/42TUV.html

I was wrong, the machine in the TUV test is, as shown in the video’s, exactly the same machine as in the pictures above. I will look for my vids and report back, like I said earlier.

Dave Wing

[Mario]

Hi Dave,

thanks for the link, well it sure looks interesting. So the one in the pics you posted is the 1:12 one?

I'd gladly buy a copy of the vids if it's available somewhere.

regards,
Mario

[jettis]

Hi Dave,

thanks for the link, well it sure looks interesting. So the one in the pics you posted is the 1:12 one?

I'd gladly buy a copy of the vids if it's available somewhere.

regards,
Mario

Hi Mario,

I don’t think the video’s show this machine as being 1:12