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aladinlamp
02-20-2008, 08:42 AM
Hi
what is the theory of generator design and geometry, where you want to minimize or completely avoid effects of BEMF and Lenz's law?

thanx

peper10
02-20-2008, 09:52 AM
Hi
what is the theory of generator design and geometry, where you want to minimize or completely avoid effects of BEMF and Lenz's law?

thanx:cheers: :cheers:
Hi aladin and welcome!!!!!
Bemf is a resistence undesirable WHEN you want to hook it to small devices.
But,sometimes it's desirable,wen you want big amount of current.
If you read the other treads,we just want to hook it to some Bedini
devices to be self powered.
And again Welcome abord.
peper10

aladinlamp
02-20-2008, 10:04 AM
1.)Mentioning Bedini, from efficiency point of view: is it better to have more coils in series along the shaft( more rotors with magnets on single shaft) - to have bigger torque or to have more coils around the single rotor to have higher RPM ?




thanx

theremart
02-20-2008, 01:14 PM
1.)Mentioning Bedini, from efficiency point of view: is it better to have more coils in series along the shaft( more rotors with magnets on single shaft) - to have bigger torque or to have more coils around the single rotor to have higher RPM ?
thanx

Do you have a goal that you are trying to accomplish?

When I started the project on the SSG ( Simple School Girl ), I wanted to get a free charged battery from my primary charging battery.

However, I found this is not a simple as it may sound. I found first before I could get anywhere near there I had to first condition the battery, and tune the circuit for the voltage I want.

I do understand your question, I have the same, I guess before you can pick which generator you want to build you have to define the task that you want to accomplish. I myself am attempting to charge more than one battery to full capacitance from the charge of one battery.

Now building generators , many good options out there, but can you define for us what your end goal is?

I often get sidetracked when playing with the generators, but mult battery charge is my goal.

aladinlamp
02-20-2008, 05:12 PM
When you measure your battery charging, how exaclt you calculet it. I used 12v 7.2 AH as primary, same as charging battery, i rotated them, after each cycles i was loosing less than 1% from their combined voltage,

24.37
24.24
24.23
24.22
24.15
24.07
23.97

im not sure what it means or how to evaluate it, but i think i can capture back around 50% of electricicty and rotate small hard drive 4 magnet rotor at 1500 RPM

my goal is to make much bigger device, since with higher voltage and with higher mass the whole device efficiency should go up, and relative circuit losses should go down

i think thats the problem of small bedini projects, they are small and its tricky to work with, it is good proof of concept but thats it

i think better way than charging batteries is to loop the output to power the circuit, decresing primary input, and get as much from the shaft power - attaching alternator

Aaron
02-20-2008, 07:32 PM
1.)Mentioning Bedini, from efficiency point of view: is it better to have more coils in series along the shaft( more rotors with magnets on single shaft) - to have bigger torque or to have more coils around the single rotor to have higher RPM ?thanx

There are big differences in torque depending on how the magnet approaches the coil. One is a small wheel and one is a big wheel.

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/magnetapproach.jpg

Jetijs
02-20-2008, 07:34 PM
Just for the record - smaller is better?
Like in elias experiments?

peper10
02-20-2008, 07:45 PM
:whistle: When you measure your battery charging, how exaclt you calculet it. I used 12v 7.2 AH as primary, same as charging battery, i rotated them, after each cycles i was loosing less than 1% from their combined voltage,

24.37
24.24
24.23
24.22
24.15
24.07
23.97

im not sure what it means or how to evaluate it, but i think i can capture back around 50% of electricicty and rotate small hard drive 4 magnet rotor at 1500 RPM

my goal is to make much bigger device, since with higher voltage and with higher mass the whole device efficiency should go up, and relative circuit losses should go down

i think thats the problem of small bedini projects, they are small and its tricky to work with, it is good proof of concept but thats it

i think better way than charging batteries is to loop the output to power the circuit, decresing primary input, and get as much from the shaft power - attaching alternator

:whistle: Mr Bedini as mastered the pulsed systhem.
We are just a bunch of guy's who EXPERIENCE with stuff.
I'm 100% sure that Mr Bedini ad try this before,but that's not he release to
us!!!!
By EXPERIENCING,we don't reinvent theWHEEL!!! If you know what i mean?
For 1000 try,you can expect 2% of new discovery.The rest is LEARNING from
trying to understand WHAT GOES WRONG.
Keep trying new things because,(if Cristophe Colomb never attempt to go
accros the atlantic,there's no way he can discover new country).
If you need infos just ask.There plenty of guys who can give you an ansewr
or pointed you where to look...


peper10

Aaron
02-20-2008, 08:20 PM
Just for the record - smaller is better?
Like in elias experiments?

It makes sense what Elias is saying...the simple way I understand his explanation is that if you're on a merry go round, the speed and torque increase if I were to move towards the middle of the merry go round. Moving the mass more toward the middle.

But with the magnet approach, which doesn't apply to Peter's attraction motor concepts directly, the flatter and more parallel the magnet is to the coil/core, the stronger the attraction/repulsion, so in this case, a bigger rotor will allow the magnet to approach the flattest in relation to the coil/core.

gmeat
02-21-2008, 12:05 AM
Hi Guys,

That's a good example Aaron.I had learned this information when I used to be involved in bowling and if you were one of the advanced bowlers you would have more than one bowling ball because it is beneficial to have balls drilled differently for different lane oil conditions and also the core material or the heavier mass being closer to the CG of the ball can play a part in how the ball rolls eg. low cg and the ball rolls faster whereas high cg the ball rolls slower.So I guess the jist of the story is that you learn things sometimes from our everyday lives that may not seem to be all that important at the time but may be beneficial somewhere down the road.Thx for the example Aaron :thumbsup: .


-gmeat

elias
02-21-2008, 04:57 AM
There are big differences in torque depending on how the magnet approaches the coil. One is a small wheel and one is a big wheel.

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/magnetapproach.jpg

This seems interesting for generator design, I think that the picture on the right, where the magnet approaches the coil core, almost tangentially puts less drag on the rotor, so it might be better for generator design. It might even get over-unity, who knows. Tho goal is to decrease the motoring capability of the generator or even eliminate it, as peter has eliminated the generating capability of the electric motor with his design.

Aaron
02-21-2008, 06:00 AM
My SG's with the lower RPM are always the biggest diameter and have the most torque.

The ones with most torque have more mass so flywheel effect PLUS magnet approach is like the one on the right side in the comparison diagram.

elias
02-21-2008, 08:52 AM
My SG's with the lower RPM are always the biggest diameter and have the most torque.

The ones with most torque have more mass so flywheel effect PLUS magnet approach is like the one on the right side in the comparison diagram.


Aaron,

You are right larger diameter rotors produce more torque, but less RPM, and smaller ones produce less torque and more RPM, but I think that the overall energy of the smaller rotor is more than the larger rotors, and this can be verified by converting the higher RPM to a lower RPM by using gears and comparing the result.

Elias

Sephiroth
02-21-2008, 02:46 PM
though if the angle the magnet approaches is so important why don't we make our rotors so that the magnets are always parralel to the coils? I mean instead of the norths pointing away from the axle, have them sideways so that the north is on one side of the rotor and the south is on the other. then place the coils on the north side of the rotor. Like John's motor on EFTV with the timing wheel where he is demonstrating how little energy it requires to start the motor...

elias
02-21-2008, 06:31 PM
though if the angle the magnet approaches is so important why don't we make our rotors so that the magnets are always parralel to the coils? I mean instead of the norths pointing away from the axle, have them sideways so that the north is on one side of the rotor and the south is on the other. then place the coils on the north side of the rotor. Like John's motor on EFTV with the timing wheel where he is demonstrating how little energy it requires to start the motor...

A good idea, I think that it would be better to place them at an angle of 45 degrees, of course depending on the size of the rotor.

Aaron
02-21-2008, 09:12 PM
I think there is more torque pushing directly on the edge of a rotor instead of pushing from the sides of the rotor since it is more in line with the actual direction of rotation.

I've built both variations but have not compared anything in regards to torque, but then again, the side pushing rotors I had were thin plastic rotors and really weak magnets.

ren
02-22-2008, 09:05 AM
Sep I often think that this would be the easiest way to do this. The other end of the coils can be utilized then on a dual rotor with comon shaft. If your rotor is flat and flush you will be able to get the closest air gap possible.

I have seen considerable torque from some of my smaller wheels, although they were multicoil machines. I have a small wheel at home I have built as stated above. Its two coils and a vcr hub with 4 nsns magnets embedded in resin. Air coils make it super fast but not so torquie. The principle works very well, having the rotors magnets not fixed to the circumference but to the surface. I'll have to make a video of this one.

gmeat
04-04-2008, 03:47 AM
Hi everyone,

Not sure what to make of this sight.Any opinions


Home (http://www.magnacoaster.com/magna/index.html)

-Gmeat


p.s. Theremart dont run out and drop a fortune on this just yet until we get some opinions:rofl:

theremart
04-04-2008, 11:41 AM
Bbbuuuttt.... I have saved so much energy so far he he :):rofl:

Actually I have batteries all around me, electronics everywhere, and feel the need for a Energy saving support group know of any?

He he.. :rolleyes: