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Ewhaz
02-06-2008, 08:06 PM
My capacitor overheating has me worried. I'm looking into other options as it seems that aluminum electrolytic are hard to find in any high voltage applications above 500v. It seems the only capacitors I can find over that range are only available for direct purchase from suppliers of specialty capacitors. This is frustrating. I also have to keep my costs down so that I have room to experiment with.

Can I go with ANY type of electrolytic capacitor, such as paper in oil or does this have to be aluminum foil? Where did you all find your capacitors at?

Aaron
02-06-2008, 09:36 PM
The capacitor heating seems a little odd. I've never had any capacitors warm no matter how big or small my setup has been to charge caps. It may even be dangerous.

How many uf's again at 500v? You can find ones from old microwaves in that range at .1-1uf range.

Tecstatic
02-07-2008, 01:23 AM
Electrolytic capacitors overheat, when the ripple current exceeds the specifications.

If your application has short high current pulses, then from my experience with switch mode power supplies, the capacitance is not the most significant figure, it is the volume of the capacitors. Preferably several smaller caps than one large.

I once read, that for this purpose ( short high current pulses and high frequencies ) two capacitors of the same volume has aprox. the same ripple current capacity, although their capacitance differs.

You can offload your present capacitors by paralleling some capacitors with good pulse properties.

Another option is polypropylene capacitors (MFP), you can get them up to approx. 1uF/ 3kV. They have good pulse properties. Ceramic capacitors can be even better.

Use ebay to buy capacitors, if your budget is low. You can set up a search for your specific needs and get emails with the matches. I have got capacitors for nearly nothing this way. www . ebay.de is a great site for electronic components.

Ebay tips. I can see two successful ways to buy cheaply:

1. some sellers auctions gets no bids, you can offer the minimum bid and hope to be the only bidder, it happens.

2. If you really want an item, then identify your maximum bid, and make the bid 3-7 seconds before the auction ends. Surprisingly often I have got the item for a fraction of my bid. Here it is a must, that your computer uses a clock server for time synchronisation.

4 gigantic High Voltage Elko, each 31,5 F / 1600V Siemens (high quality) were sold for a total 8,39 euros in December. But those are not seen so often. Image attached. I have even seen another Siemens cap 1,8kV weight 7 Kg (as I remember).

4 Stk HV Elko 31,5 F 1600V Siemens bei eBay.de: Bauteile (endet 12.12.07 19:26:08 MEZ) (http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130180988533&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003)

There are also many offers for ceramic Tesla capacitors (for Tesla coils).

The attached data sheet are for capacitors from China sold on ebay.de at reasonable prices.

Good luck :-)

theremart
02-07-2008, 01:49 AM
Do not hook them up backwards :embarrassed:

amazing smoke came out of mine when I did...

I agree getting hot is a bad thing.... I was told to treat capacitors like batteries, don't put a AA battery in for the job of a Car Battery.. But I can also see Aarons point of not having good quality capacitors.

I would like to be able to store energy in a better place than the battery or a capacitor... I even considered compressed air, or heat...

Lead acid batteries do loose energy. Seems like a shame to loose 10% of your hard earned energy overnite.

mart

Ewhaz
02-07-2008, 07:34 AM
Well heres the thing, it's a 3.3 uf capacitor rated at 450V but it still overheats. However it did seem small when I got it, I was expecting a big capacitor but it was the small aluminum canister type, about the diameter of a AAA battery and about 1/2 inch long.

I also notice that if I touch the capacitor, that is the shell, and touch other parts of the circuit I'll get a tingle going through me. It's still charging, however before I found the faulty 555 it was simply wide open and dumping strait into the battery. Only after I fixed that and it started pulsing properly did it start to get hot again.

I'd thought about putting some in parallel or series to help divide the load between them, I was just researching that today.

Edit:
Well, just for kicks I paralleled another cap in there, instantly they are both running much cooler but still getting warm.

ren
02-07-2008, 09:54 AM
Id like to make a comment directed towards your input on capacitor selection Tecstatic. I noticed recently on EFVT 2 something that I didnt pick up before. John has two capacitors on some of his devices. I noticed the stubby one and the large one on the motor generator, but I recently saw another on the small schoolgirl with the 4 timing wheels (think?)

I was wondering if they might be there to accomodate a storage of high potential AND high current. Sort of like one dumps at 14v 1/2 amp and the other at 200v 1/10 amp. You get the idea.

Peter Lindemann
02-07-2008, 05:01 PM
Well heres the thing, it's a 3.3 uf capacitor rated at 450V but it still overheats. However it did seem small when I got it, I was expecting a big capacitor but it was the small aluminum canister type, about the diameter of a AAA battery and about 1/2 inch long.

I also notice that if I touch the capacitor, that is the shell, and touch other parts of the circuit I'll get a tingle going through me. It's still charging, however before I found the faulty 555 it was simply wide open and dumping strait into the battery. Only after I fixed that and it started pulsing properly did it start to get hot again.

I'd thought about putting some in parallel or series to help divide the load between them, I was just researching that today.

Edit:
Well, just for kicks I paralleled another cap in there, instantly they are both running much cooler but still getting warm.

Ewhaz,

Thought I'd chime in here. There are a number of issues here. The first one is whether or not the capacitor is actually functioning up to its stated specifications. I don't know what you are charging the caps up to, but leakage currents (internal discharge) always increase as you approach the upper limit of the dielectric material. The second major factor, which is often overlooked, is the internal construction of the capacitor. Caps that are designed as a "filter cap" are not meant to be discharged quickly. Electrolytic caps are all made of foil and plastic sheets rolled up in the can. The question is, how are the plates connected to the terminals? If the plates are connected to the terminals in one location at the end of the roll, discharging the cap rapidly produces INDUCTANCE in the turns of the roll. This will also heat the cap and slow down the discharge speed. Caps that are designed for rapid discharge are rolls of foil and plastic sheets where all of the layers of one plate are connected together on one side of the roll, and all of the layers of the other plate are connected together on the other side. Now the charge in the deepest layers of the cap can come straight out the side instead of having to go around all of the rolled layers. This is the kind of cap construction you need because it has no inductance and can charge and discharge instantly. Typically, this kind of capacitor is called a "photo flash" capacitor and is designed for instant discharge to run Xenon Flash tubes in photographic equipment.

Here is a link to a site that sells this kind of capacitor.

Photo Flash Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Capacitor Industries (http://www.capacitorindustries.com/capacitors/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitors/photo-flash-capacitors/default.html)

I hope this helps.

Peter

Aaron
02-07-2008, 06:58 PM
When I built my first "dual battery charger" SG, I needed 330uf 600v caps because I wanted to build everything 100% perfect to the schematic..I think that is what they were.

Anyway, I went to a photo lab at a local grocery store and asked them if I could have a bag full of discarded disposable cameras for a science project. They gave me about a dozen of them. Inside are 120uf to 300uf+ caps at a 120v up to a few hundred volts. They're free if you get them this way. I hope this helps.

Ewhaz
02-07-2008, 09:07 PM
Thank you everybody, I appreciate the help!

Peter, Thank you especially it's always nice to see you contributing, especially to a struggling experimenter. I did have one question though, since you have worked closely with Bedini and Bearden in the past, you might know more about this application than most. I wanted to follow the schematic as closely as possible for my proof of concept (This is the circuit from page 46 of the free energy generation, circuits and schematics book) How critical is the capacitance of the capacitor?

I've read other peoples information on capacitors and how it's not too be too low and create a 'fluffy' charge, or too big that it fries the battery. How much leeway do I have with this capacitor as far as it's ratting? In other parts of the book they show capacitance any where from 1uf to 23000uf. Can I go with a 100 to 200uf cap without seriously distorting the operation of the charger?

I was actually already looking into that website, thank you for providing me with a link to the right capacitors. I'll send them an email and see what I can get.

ren
02-07-2008, 11:14 PM
Aaron I find it interesting to note that you have achieved good results with a large capacitance cap bank. I note that John has some rather large cap banks too, probably in the range of 1-2 farads.

Then I see schematics calling for much lower. Is there a direct link between induction (and collapse) of a coil and optimal capacitance / cap size?

Aaron
02-07-2008, 11:46 PM
Hi Ren,

Probably the strongest charge I ever got was with large capacitance discharged with a mechanical switch.

Using 1uf or 0.1uf range, the charge was too fluffy.

A few hundred uf's were ok with small batts like 1.7ah 6v batts...takes a little while.

198,000uf at about 15v discharges are what gave the strongest load powering charges I ever got. Also, that was the only way I got the batts to charge on their own after disconnecting....like up to 1 hour!

Peter Lindemann
02-08-2008, 06:14 AM
Ewhaz,

John experimented with every size capacitor you can imagine. I agree with Aaron. The systems that charged the batteries the best were the systems with the large capacitors discharging across a MECHANICAL CONTACTER!! The biggest system John used had three 1 Farad capacitors wired in series, for a total of 333,000uf. The system charged the cap for about one and a half seconds, up to about 15 volts, and discharged it through #4 wire to the batteries. The contacter was a copper strip on a Delrin wheel and the sliding contacts were silver tipped bronze strap.

I don't see any pictures of this exact set-up on the internet at this point, but this machine ran continuously for 8 weeks. There was one Wal-Mart garden battery on the front running the systems, and 5 batteries on the back. 4 of the batteries on the charging side stayed there all the time. One garden battery on the back and one garden battery on the front were switched every 12 hours (twice a day) for 60 days in a row.

Peter

Ewhaz
02-08-2008, 07:00 AM
Alright, so big capacitors are not the issue really, but rather that the capacitors are capable of discharging very quickly without inducing it's own inductance.

The difficulty I am having is trying to get all 3 parameters together in one place, the 3.3 uf, the +400v and the electrolytic type capacitor. The flash capacitors all seem to be only about 360v maximum. It seems to me that while the circuits do not generate all that great amount of energy, everything is way overrated. I always assumed it was because the radiant energy would damage the componants even though they are running well within their range. However I've heard contradictory stories about this one way and the other.

I choose the self oscillator setup because it just made more sense to me. There is less to worry about and less parts capable of wearing out. Later after I get this proof of concept out of the way, then I am free to experiment in other ways as well. However, with wanting to be 'scientific' I'm trying my damnedest to stay within the parameters in the schematic but things like the capacitor and other things are driving be batty trying to find exactly what the schematic calls for.

lighty
02-08-2008, 09:52 AM
Alright, so big capacitors are not the issue really, but rather that the capacitors are capable of discharging very quickly without inducing it's own inductance.

Inducing it's own inductance? Huh? :thinking:


Anyway- in order to get fast pulse discharge response you would have to limit capacitors impedance elements as much as possible; namely ESR and ESL. Buying a low ESR and/or low ESL capacitors should help, however for most amateurs and low budget applications large capacitance/low impedance capacitors are simply too expensive and too rare.

In order to cheaply lower the impedance it would be very beneficial to form a large capacitors by symmetrically paralleling a larger number of smaller value capacitors. So, simply calculate your desired capacitance and divide it to a number of standard value smaller capacitors. You could of course measure peak frequency response and calculate a combination of multiple different values capacitors to combine but that's beside the capabilities of most amateurs and their measurement equipment. Of course many smaller capacitors would introduce a greater leak current but for this purpose it shouldn't matter.

Symmetrically paralleling means that leads from multiple capacitors should all be of exact same size and length and terminate in a single point.

So, to keep it short. If I were you I would parallel as much smaller value capacitors as possible. I would try to get low ESR and possible low ESL kind but if it's not possible (or if it's too expensive) I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I would also pay attention to have all the capacitors the same value, model and manufacturer. I would then test all the capacitors for possible defective ones just to be on the safe side. After that, I would pay attention to have as thick conductors (copper or silvered copper) as possible and to cut them all to the same (as short as possible) length. I would then connect them all to a single point and from that point I would connect my low ESR/ESL capacitor to the rest of the system (by using as thick and as short conductor as possible).

I did it in the past when my budget limited my options but the results were very convincing indeed. It should work for Bedini type capacitive dischargers as well. It's much simpler to use bigger capacitors and simply ignore somewhat larger capacitor impedance but if you want sharper discharger impulses and distributed power dissipation you should strive to have as low ESL/ESR as possible.


Oh, and please note that every single capacitor in that setup must have adequate voltage rating for the targeted charge/discharge since paralleling them won't change their voltage breakthrough rating.


Hope this helps.:whistle:


P.S.
BTW- electrolytic capacitors are the worst kind for fast discharges. Oil filled ones or specially made polystyrene ones are much better choice.

Peter Lindemann
02-08-2008, 05:26 PM
Thank you everybody, I appreciate the help!

Peter, Thank you especially it's always nice to see you contributing, especially to a struggling experimenter. I did have one question though, since you have worked closely with Bedini and Bearden in the past, you might know more about this application than most. I wanted to follow the schematic as closely as possible for my proof of concept (This is the circuit from page 46 of the free energy generation, circuits and schematics book) How critical is the capacitance of the capacitor?

I've read other peoples information on capacitors and how it's not too be too low and create a 'fluffy' charge, or too big that it fries the battery. How much leeway do I have with this capacitor as far as it's ratting? In other parts of the book they show capacitance any where from 1uf to 23000uf. Can I go with a 100 to 200uf cap without seriously distorting the operation of the charger?

I was actually already looking into that website, thank you for providing me with a link to the right capacitors. I'll send them an email and see what I can get.

Dear Ewhaz,

The schematic on page 46 is a GENERIC circuit. In other words, there is nothing special or significant about it. Work on these circuits dates back to 2003. John and I built one of the first of these type on a breadboard I brought over to the shop. The very first one used a neon bulb wired from the gate to the anode of the SCR to dump the cap, instead of the 555 timer and the rest. The neon bulbs would run for a while, then polarize in the electrostatic field and stop working. So, the timer discharge is more reliable. The H11D1 is the high voltage version of the opto-isolator and is the only one that works in these conditions. The SCR is the best solid-state device to use for the discharge because it has the lowest voltage drop across the junction. That said, John tried a lot of different SCRs in these circuits, and they all behaved slightly differently. The 3.3uf cap was a special cap John had left over from one of his audio amplifier production models. You can see two of the yellow cylinders at this link, in the photo of "The Real McCoy"

20 Bedini (http://www.icehouse.net/john34/bedinibearden.html)

These capacitors are fairly large for their capacitive value and were good to about 300 volts, I think. The Real McCoy would charge them to about 170 volts before discharge. In fact, The Real McCoy has the same output circuit as the diagram on page 46, but runs a miniature mono-pole motor with a Cole Switch on the front end instead of the Self-Oscillator. The point is, John tried every combination you can imagine.

None of the circuits were Over Unity. Every circuit had losses. The only systems that ran OU were the ones that continuously charged and discharged the batteries repeatedly. Only after long study did we draw the conclusion that it was the BATTERY that was operating OU, not the circuits!

The bottom line, and I have said this over and over, do not expect these solid-state chargers to be OU. They aren't!!! The OU of the SSG appears as mechanical energy on the shaft!

On a side note, I just found a picture of John's machine with the 3 one Farad cap discharge system at: Welcome to Bedini Technology (http://www.icehouse.net/john1/index11.html) The photo is near the bottom of the long page.

Also, the simplest way to solve your cap problem is to use four of them in a series/parallel set-up. Make two sets of two of the caps in series, and parallel the two sets. This will give you a capacitor that has the same capacitance as the original one, but it will be rated at twice the voltage. That should solve your heating problem.

Good luck,

Peter

Ewhaz
02-08-2008, 08:29 PM
So basically what you are saying here is that the circuit is simply there to create the negative resistors IN the battery utilizing the pulses of electricity, switching on the negative side to get potential across the positive pole?

If the circuit was generic the I can only assume the 14 hz pulsing circuit was simply there to discharge a 3.3uf.. In other words the capacitance doesn't matter so long as the cap is allowed to charge to a decent voltage before being pulsed to the battery. What about creating the negative resistors in the Caps though? I know that would at least improve the charging of it, if possible, increasing the output over time.

Peter Lindemann
02-08-2008, 11:31 PM
So basically what you are saying here is that the circuit is simply there to create the negative resistors IN the battery utilizing the pulses of electricity, switching on the negative side to get potential across the positive pole?

If the circuit was generic the I can only assume the 14 hz pulsing circuit was simply there to discharge a 3.3uf.. In other words the capacitance doesn't matter so long as the cap is allowed to charge to a decent voltage before being pulsed to the battery. What about creating the negative resistors in the Caps though? I know that would at least improve the charging of it, if possible, increasing the output over time.

Ewhaz,

As far as I am concerned, the "Negative Resistor in the Battery" was the expression of a THEORY by Tom Bearden to try to explain the energy gain in the system. This was never quantified until I worked for John in 2004. During the development of the Golf Cart charger, I started to track the charging process of the batteries every day with a computer. What showed up was very curious. Based on uniform discharges of the batteries by driving the Golf Cart 5 miles a day, the charge back time was always the longest on Monday, after sitting idle for two days over the weekend. On Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, the charge back time finished up to an hour and a half earlier. The charts all showed that "something" remained in the battery, allowing the charge to finish earlier, as long as the battery was charged and discharged once a day. If you skipped one day, you had lost about half of the benefit. If you skipped two days, the benefit was pretty much dissipated. It was never determined exactly "what" was causing this, but it happened 100% of the time. Whatever it is, this is the effect that allows the systems to go OU by shortening the total time required to produce a full charge. Considering it dissipated over time when the battery was resting, I came to believe that it was NOT a Negative Resistor effect as postulated by Bearden.

You will never see this effect if you only run your tests once in a while.

Most hobbyists will never see these things. Without systematic testing and proper measuring methods, the phenomena is hard to prove. But we quantified it in 2004, and have the computer graphs to prove it.

I don't think you can create a Negative Resistor effect in the battery. It behaves more like an "electret" effect, where the POTENTIAL remains high and the battery appears to continue to charge itself after being removed from the charger. Aaron has seen this too.

Peter

Ewhaz
02-09-2008, 07:51 PM
So in other words, without a constant cycle of charging and discharging, there is no over unity in the battery. That's useful to know.

However, I had only wanted to do a proof of concept for two reasons. One was for myself, and the other was to share the results so that others can use this as well. After that I have tons of experiments I want to do, including scaling this up for more 'useful' applications. With your motor designs and this battery charging technology, as well as other applications such as the Tesla turbine, the sky is pretty much the limit.

Still it's kind of frustrating to learn that these results are hard to prove or even observe, it's not as if I can sit around and watch the batteries charge by any means, real life and all. There are safety concerns so I can't just leave the batteries and trust they will be safe while I'm gone. I think it's time I learned some programming so I can get the computer to handle the monitoring and switching applications.

Aaron
02-09-2008, 08:46 PM
Ewhaz,

You can get a multimeter at radio shack with a cable that plugs into just about any computer and it has software that comes with it. It will show the readings right on your screen. That is a simple way to monitor what the battery voltage is showing and have it graphed. I have it at my other place right now so I don't know the model but it is a standard one at radio shack.
I think it might have been in the $50-60 price range but not sure. I can't find that one on their website but I'm sure they have others that do the same.

Ewhaz
02-09-2008, 09:43 PM
Ewhaz,

You can get a multimeter at radio shack with a cable that plugs into just about any computer and it has software that comes with it. It will show the readings right on your screen. That is a simple way to monitor what the battery voltage is showing and have it graphed. I have it at my other place right now so I don't know the model but it is a standard one at radio shack.
I think it might have been in the $50-60 price range but not sure. I can't find that one on their website but I'm sure they have others that do the same.

I'll look into that, it will make documenting very easy. I also need something that will shut the system down when either the power battery gets too low, or the charging battery reaches charge. My point is I don't have any one that can watch this for me to make sure it doesn't go BOOM.

Chip Shorter
02-15-2008, 03:27 AM
Batteries can act real wierd too. I worked in a starter and alternator shop when I was a teenager and noticed guys with a few hundred thousand miles on their airport taxi's were on the original battery sometimes 7-8 years old. However cars that were owned by people who drove them hardly ever-sports cars that sit in winter or farm equipment that sat idle for a season, all had battery problems leading to replacement.
I worked in a factory that had a golf cart that nobody ever seemed to charge or leave on the charger very long. It would continue operating although the performance of the batteries was diminished and a noticable effect on top speed ensued. If it was left to sit for about three hours it would come back to life. The plant was huge and ran 24/6. One time after a shutdown I put some asperin in the cells and it came to life for a while. It seemed the load drawn from it really mattered because we had electric lift trucks with 72 or 96 volt systems that would go down hard and never come back. How the battery was killed had a lot to do with it I think. The golf cart had a light load- a passenger wheras the lift truck had an 8000 pound load with a hydraulic pump to deal with.
I noticed the batteries after running on the old SG after a while get that way too their not fully charged but their certainly not dead either and are living beyond their normal lives. I call it battery Zombification.

Capacitors sometimes will just get old and start to trail off. Some like flash circuit caps are meant to be discharged rapidly. Others are designed for low leakage. Sometimes a cap will start to smell before it goes bad. Also they don't age well. They have a shelf life it seems. I bought some old caps recently and out of five I threw one away.

theremart
02-29-2008, 08:53 PM
After hooking up my Roto Verter I now realize that there are AC capactiors, and DC capacitors. I am trying to understand the difference, it seems I see people on youtube using AC capacitors where you would a DC capacitor... Anyone know the difference, and if they would be good for an SSG discarge ( AC capacitor that is )

Thanks!

Jetijs
02-29-2008, 08:58 PM
As far as I know, every AC capacitor can be used for DC, but not the other way around :)

Ewhaz
03-01-2008, 07:18 AM
I got my 4uf capacitors the other day and put them in, testing to see if the circuit would see any vast improvement.

Nothing so far, it climbed from about 12.7 v to 13.02 in about 3 hours, then from there it climbed only a measily .2v after the next 8 hours, then only about .06v after the next 8 hours after that. I think I'm going to build another coil and go with the rotor setup instead. I was hoping to have a proof of concept first before I branched off and started tinkering and fine tuning but I guess I'll just have to dive in and get this damned thing working one way or another.

theremart
03-01-2008, 12:47 PM
Believe it or not from what I have seen this is normal. ( taking longer to charge the top end of the battery (12.90 +) I think of it like compressing air into a bottle. it seems when the bottle is full, it takes more force to get more air in.

I am guessing that is why people build bigger Bedinis.. ( more coils more transistors )

Jetijs, thanks for the info about the capacitors.

Mart

Aaron
03-01-2008, 06:02 PM
Mart,

The compressed air analogy is great as we are working with a literal gas.

If you all chart the voltage in increments, maybe even 5 minutes, 10, 15 maybe at most, you will see a pattern towards the end but you have to look close.

It will tell you when to stop charging.

Put it on a graph and you'll see it.

Aaron
03-02-2008, 06:45 PM
Here are a few samples I recorded by HAND...I would wake up throughout the night to go look at the meters and write stuff down....with my radio shack multimeter with the rs232 port, that will chart the voltage on screen and you can save the graphs...that is what you want. Usually the peak stays the same for a bit.

6.67
6.68
6.77
6.80
6.83
6.93
6.97
7.20
7.14

...................10.76
11.25
11.33
11.35
11.22 (not higher because still being repaired)

.......12.20
12.45
12.33

.......11.04
11.19
11.05

There were all gel cells...the 6v's were 1.7ah and the 12v's were 7ah's

thedude
04-16-2008, 10:06 PM
When I built my first "dual battery charger" SG, I needed 330uf 600v caps because I wanted to build everything 100% perfect to the schematic..I think that is what they were.

Anyway, I went to a photo lab at a local grocery store and asked them if I could have a bag full of discarded disposable cameras for a science project. They gave me about a dozen of them. Inside are 120uf to 300uf+ caps at a 120v up to a few hundred volts. They're free if you get them this way. I hope this helps.

LOL! that is beautiful advice. I just phoned 2 different photo finishing locations and came up with 4 of the same model of 330v 80uf photo caps. They are more than ready to just give them away. :P I have officially become the photo mart scavenger of my home town. There are some good salvageable components in these cameras. Great suggestion!

As far as using a capacitive discharge, i'm definitely going to test with and without one on my secondary bank in my set up. However, i am getting a general indication that it isn't necessarily the method of discharge to the secondary banks that is the issue in achieving efficiency. I watched John and Tom's dvd in which John basically declares that if you can generate enough radiant spiking that "you don't need a capacitor". I took this as his way of saying "add as many bifilar coils and magnetic poles as you can to achieve a radiant charge. I could be wrong. Or as Peter says its the mechanical output that best illustrates the OU in the system. I have been watching my 5 - 12.5v 4.5ah batteries for more than 2 days now. I have been swapping 1 primary battery before it reaches 12v for another which i remove from secondary for 20mins before placing on in primary position. The charging bank has been holding at a near steady 12.45volts (tends to drop down and recover with each switching). Now i say that i remove each battery before it reaches 12volts, however there are two of the 5 batteries that are slightly older (by 2 weeks) and have been charged on negative radiant spikes for a longer period of time compared to the other 3 newer bats. These two older batteries ultimately perform as well as the other 3 while running the circuit on much lower voltage. These batteries tend to charge up to 12.45 volts quicker than the others do, however they also discharge very quickly to 10 volts or lower and then simply hold at that point and run the circuit just as fast and with as much current as the others. These two batteries are also the only batteries that seem to produce a double pulse off the collector (sort of a h-wave pattern with a double back on it). I'm still quite inexperienced so i don't know if adding my observations is of benefit at this point.

Its nice to have a place to discuss things. :)
all my friends think i'm crazy. lol

Oh ya, i set up a page to illustrate my SSG project and scope shots. I promise to get a better camera soon. :P Darcy Klyne's Bedini Monopole Replication (http://modvid.com/bedini/)

SkyWatcher
03-17-2009, 05:09 AM
Hi folks, I have also been able to charge gel cells using cap pulsing while getting a stable non-fluffly charge however in most experiments ive done with bedini motor or solid state where i only used the pulses off the diodes the charge was fluffy. Now that said, there is one solid state circuit ive tested that is pretty much like a dc to dc step up converter which is based on one of teslas patents i believe. I am posting a pic of the circuit that worked well for me. Also others have had similar thoughts on the notion of charge time of a battery enabling OU, and why are we not charging individual cells rather than batteries of cells with the losses associated with charging series strings of cells, it seems to me we could charge parallel banks of cells much faster for the same input than we can charge series strings of cells and by charging the parallel method the faster charging would possibly enable OU to a higher degree. I know something called "Slycell" used this method of charging and stated other charging sources could be used as well other than solar cells. Any thoughts welcome.

peace love light :sun:

SkyWatcher
03-17-2009, 05:37 AM
Just like to add a couple more thoughts. I used 3, 1 farad car audio caps in series for the cap pulser. So with the parallel lead acid cells or similar, we no longer have the equivalent of counter emf meaning whatever our source we have to generate 12v to even start to charge the battery but essentially that 12v is destroyed just as Peter L. points out in his videos about standard motors, and we have less losses in the charging process that lead to faster charging. It makes sense to me only thing left to do is prove it or not to myself. After all the "Slycell" charging method is able to charge a 12v lead acid in just less than 1 hour that would normally take 6 hours with the same solar panel.

SkyWatcher
03-17-2009, 10:37 PM
Hi folks, are you seriously telling me nobody here finds my last comment about the Slycell charging method a little bit important or useful if the claims are true which after some thought i think are genuine and soon testing to proof it. Would not a system that can charge a battery in 1 hour that normally takes 6 hours to charge with the same input overall as is used in the 6 hour setup be useful to anyone. anyone out there.

Electrotek
03-18-2009, 01:23 AM
Hi folks, are you seriously telling me nobody here finds my last comment about the Slycell charging method a little bit important or useful if the claims are true which after some thought i think are genuine and soon testing to proof it. Would not a system that can charge a battery in 1 hour that normally takes 6 hours to charge with the same input overall as is used in the 6 hour setup be useful to anyone. anyone out there.

I know a lot of people who live on sail boats in San Diego Bay who would be very interested in this. Many only have a single solar panel to charge their battery. I'm definitely keeping my eye on this thread.

SkyWatcher
03-18-2009, 01:40 AM
Hi folks, then in that case Electrotek since i noticed its very hard to find anything anymore about the Slycell charging method on the net, hmm I wonder why, thats ok they must have forgot that people can create libraries of all past good and useful information from the net. anyway here is a pdf detailing it so people can decide and test it for themselves.
I am creating a thread just for Slycell.
peace love light :sun:

sucahyo
03-18-2009, 03:01 AM
Hi folks, are you seriously telling me nobody here finds my last comment about the Slycell charging method a little bit important or useful if the claims are true which after some thought i think are genuine and soon testing to proof it. Would not a system that can charge a battery in 1 hour that normally takes 6 hours to charge with the same input overall as is used in the 6 hour setup be useful to anyone. anyone out there.I did cap charging too, but since I can't find a fast switcher I don't use it on my new circuit which only work at high frequency. If you have enough current the charging wouldn't be too fluffy, either using cap charging or direct radiant.
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/626/555coldtrans.png (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=555coldtrans.png)

I made a bump in a 12V gel battery yesterday because I overcharge it from 3 hour charge, from 10Volts to 16Volts. And this isn't fluffy charge too, since it already run two hour powering computer fan now and still not stopping. I charge my kid toys NiCD batteries in an hour which can make the toy run longer than overnight charging of cheap china charger.

Your idea is great, but it require something I don't have, a big capacity capacitor. Big capacity capacitor should enable self charging too if done properly. My current circuit work just like I need to, so I will try to overwork it before I try something else. But since it run cool, maybe this may take a long time.

baroutologos
04-15-2009, 11:12 AM
After much experimenting with the simple SSG (although my actual results are way less inferior than what other people mention best cop achieved 0,6 ) i decided to move to cap pulser mode as specified in the Patent.

I have read a lot about the kinds of capacitors to use and their effects.
To me it seems the larger the better (in a reasonable mode)

So, i am wrong to start it with car capacitor of say 1-2 farads, charging it to 1-2 volts above battery bank level and then via mechanical means discharging it?

Or better going say via 2 x 96.000 uf will be better?

Resources are scarce and time also, that's the reason asking.

Regards,
Baroutologos

sucahyo
04-16-2009, 01:48 AM
So, i am wrong to start it with car capacitor of say 1-2 farads, charging it to 1-2 volts above battery bank level and then via mechanical means discharging it?From what I learn so far it looks good. From Aaron post here I remember it is 2 Volts above battery voltage, but from post about Bedini usually mentioned as twice battery voltage. But I think I would believe what Aaron said more.

For greater COP try twisting the secondary wire to the primary wire, although this may reduce the induction considerably and we may need to increase the winding, it will increase the induction collapse power. In Joule thief thread I learn that twisting the wire has the same effect as reduced winding. While the big Bedini generator photo show the use of big twisted wire.