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theremart
02-05-2008, 10:01 PM
States that he is using back emf to feed back into the motor. Nice videos, I would like to have Peter look at this.

Potential Difference (http://www.g9toengineering.com/backemf/demonstration.htm)

Jetijs
02-06-2008, 12:22 AM
Thank you Mart for the link,
very interesting stuff. At first I did not understand how he managed the magnetic flux to go into the shaft. To be honest I still do not fully understand, so I would be glad if someone explained in easy words what this man is actually doing and how does he get the current, generated by coils, make a new magnetic field on the rotor shaft of the induction motor. Did he use the generated current and induced it on other coils that supplied the shaft with magnetic flux? Was he doing that with those two smaller red and blue coils?
Thanks,
Jetijs

theremart
02-06-2008, 12:58 AM
I was VERY puzzled what he was saying, sounded like he was "channelling" the magnetic force. Which sounded very wierd to me. But the results looked very impressive.

elias
02-06-2008, 10:27 AM
Thank you Mart!

I am about to read what he says, it seems like very interesting stuff: "Accelerating generator under load!"
The last video (part 7) seems like what we are doing in "the secret of extracting mechanical energy out of SSG".

BTW, I have built my rotor and will film and demonstrate it to you all, that it really produces more energy. I tested it today and am convinced that the magnet is doing free work for us.

Elias

Peter Lindemann
02-06-2008, 04:57 PM
States that he is using back emf to feed back into the motor. Nice videos, I would like to have Peter look at this.

Potential Difference (http://www.g9toengineering.com/backemf/demonstration.htm)

Theremart,

This is very interesting. I looked at the site yesterday, but have not had time to look at the films yet. What he is saying is EXACTLY what I have been saying. That is, the behavior of motors and generators does NOT follow the Laws of Thermodynamics, it follows the conditions demanded by the GEOMETRY of the system. I don't know yet if his designs are practical, but building generators that accelerate or remain torque neutral under load is a FACT of science and is completely determined by the geometry of the design. The "back EMF" or "back MMF" of a system does NOT have to reflect back to the input.

As I have said, and I hope people are starting to understand the truth of it, eliminating, diverting, or balancing "back EMF" in electrical systems IS THE KEY to real "free energy".

This guy seems to have figured out the same thing.

Peter

Aaron
02-06-2008, 09:41 PM
Long time ago on the roller skate wheel setup I have had it run faster with magnets on the shaft in different configurations. I have tried both north facing the rotor and south facing the rotor. With S facing the rotor I felt the virtual souths squeezing out between the North faces would be stronger. The rpm did get higher as I measured it with a remote control propeller tachometer.

This is different from the backemf effects from a coil but you can find interesting things just playing around :)

Peter Lindemann
02-06-2008, 10:38 PM
Hi folks,

Here is what I just posted to Sterling's page on Thane's demos.

*********
Dear Sterling,

I have reviewed all seven video links. In all fairness, I would like to say that Thane has built some nice demonstrations and spent a lot of time running experiments. That said, the films show nothing important. First of all, the films do not show enough detailed information to evaluate the demonstrations. Second, no free energy is shown. In fact, the generators are never shown producing any useful outputs. They are either shown producing voltage in "open circuit" mode, or they are shown in "short circuit" mode, where the generated voltage drops below one volt. So, ZERO WATTS are produced in either case.

The changes in mechanical drag are due to changes in inductance and hysteresis. Back in the 1980's, both John Bedini and I independently worked with "variable reluctance" generators. We both saw that these designs work like an inverse to a standard induction generator. That is, they produce maximum drag in "open circuit" mode, and minimum drag in "short circuit" mode. John found that the point of maximum benefit in this situation is to charge a battery, where the impedance of the generator "sees" the battery as a "near short circuit". Under these circumstances, the generator free-wheels and the battery charges quickly.

Unfortunately, Thane is not showing any useful benefits from the generator output. So, there is no "efficiency" to calculate because there is no output!

The real problem with these demonstrations has to do with his motor drive. The motor driving his system is a single phase induction motor. This type of motor has almost zero starting torque, and only produces its rated power at rated speed. So, the rated speed of his motor is probably in the neighborhood of 1725 RPM. Running this motor in the 100 RPM range converts 98% of the input electric power to HEAT. He says he has a capacitor in the input circuit to the motor, but this is never shown in schematic, so we don't know how it is hooked up. If the capacitor is connected in SERIES with the motor winding, it will act as a current limiter, and skew the power factor of the motor towards reactive power. This is fine, IF you want to limit the mechanical power of the motor as well. If the capacitor is connected in PARALLEL with the motor winding, it will act to produce reactive power for the motor locally, and reduce the amount of power it draws from the wall. But again, this would only be significant at rated speed.

The effect he shows when a magnetic field is applied to the motor shaft would be undetectable if he was operating the motor correctly. It is a very weak effect. It is probably caused by the external magnetic field interfering with the induced magnetic field of the rotor. This would not happen if the motor coils were not being severely current limited and the rotor was not "slipping" severely in the rotating magnetic field of the stator.

My GUESS is that the capacitor is in SERIES with the motor winding. This will limit the current to the motor to a specific maximum. At the speeds he is running these motors, the only other mechanism to hold back the input current would be the resistance of the wire in the motor coils. If that is all he had, the motor would quickly over-heat and melt the insulation right off the wire. The fact that the motor is running hot is proved in the seventh film where a large black fan is shown blowing on the motor!

From the data presented, my best estimate of the efficiency of the demonstrations is that over 90% of the energy going into the motor is converted to heat. The changes in drag of the generators is standard behavior for variable reluctance topologies, so accelerations or decelerations of the motor DO NOT represent energy production, just changes in HYSTERESIS DRAG. Since no output energies are ever measured, the input to output efficiency ratio is ZERO.

Thane Heins may have more important discoveries in his lab, but they are not demonstrated in these videos.

*******

Well folks, that is pretty much it.

Peter

Jetijs
02-06-2008, 11:00 PM
Thank you Peter for your analysis :notworthy:

theremart
02-07-2008, 01:16 AM
There seems to be no unified definition of terms. It is like Peter's video Motor Secrets where you show "Telsa for dummies" you cite the definitions for what was meant by what Tesla said. Once you have a common ground of language then you are communicating, else you are just heating up the room with verbiage.

Thanks for your analysis Peter! I knew a sharper eye would see both the good and the bad of the video.

There may be some nuggets of truth in these videos, I am still trying to understand why he thinks the magnetic field extends all the way to the other motor. I could see the electricity, but not the field... but I am still a kidnergartner at this stuff..

Mart

elias
02-08-2008, 02:43 PM
These videos are really enlighten! It seems to me to help explain the Muller motor idea. I had no idea that the magnet field could possibly travel so far down the shaft of the motor! This was one of the most enjoyable films to watch in a long time.

BUT the most exciting thing to find out is that he lives only a few minutes from my house! I looked him up in my local phone book and called him. I hope to have a cup of tea with him shortly. I will ask him to join our group. I hope that he will as I think he can teach us all a thing or two.

Karl

It would be nice if he'd join us!
Thanks