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elias
01-20-2008, 02:59 PM
Hello everyone,

Has anyone seen or tried out these magnetic fuel savers, which claim to increase the mileage by about 25%?
Magnetizer Super Fuel Saver Magnetic Energizer System for Engines (http://www.wholly-water.com/magnetizer/super.magnetic.fuel.saver.htm)
Amazon.com: SuperGasSaver Magnetic Fuel Treatment Device: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/SuperGasSaver-Magnetic-Fuel-Treatment-Device/dp/B000CR3XSW)
They claim that the strong Nd magnets ionize the fuel as it passes through it and makes it burn more efficiently. There has been some criticism on these devices too: eBay.co.uk Guides - Magnetic fuel savers, how to really save money (http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Magnetic-fuel-savers-how-to-really-save-money_W0QQugidZ10000000003607696?ssPageName=BUYGD: CAT:-1:SEARCH:1)

If it works it is very reasonable to buy, but not sure about it works or not, as magnetic fields "seem" to have no effect on hydro-carbons.

Has anybody got any opinions about these fuel savers?

Elias

Aaron
01-20-2008, 05:42 PM
Recommended: Magnetizer Products (http://www.magnetizerproducts.com/savings)


The EPA and/or DOT have tested them and they say they give no "significant" gains... not there there aren't gains but not what they consider significant.

I had a very steady drive when I used to work out of town. I drove the same route at the same speeds and always filled up at the same pump. My car was always getting 38mpg on the hwy. When I put small, round ceramic magnets on the fuel line close to the intake and also (on the rubber hose) further away from the intake, I was getting 43mpg on the hwy. I think they work.

Several years later in the same car, leaving everything as it is, I just started using an additive and was getting up to 43mpg in the city!

Some people lose gas mileage (according to testimonials that I've read) by adding too strong of magnets so even though they get a loss, it shows one thing that the magnetic field must have some effect on hydrocarbons.

Ceramic magnets seem to be the strongest necessary. The ones I used are about 1/4" thick and about the diameter of a dime.

Supposedly they polarize the molecules or like charge them so they repel from each other breaking apart to reduce the flash point...lets the gas atomize better.

Peter Lindemann
01-20-2008, 05:55 PM
Hello everyone,

Has anyone seen or tried out these magnetic fuel savers, which claim to increase the mileage by about 25%?
Magnetizer Super Fuel Saver Magnetic Energizer System for Engines (http://www.wholly-water.com/magnetizer/super.magnetic.fuel.saver.htm)
Amazon.com: SuperGasSaver Magnetic Fuel Treatment Device: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/SuperGasSaver-Magnetic-Fuel-Treatment-Device/dp/B000CR3XSW)
They claim that the strong Nd magnets ionize the fuel as it passes through it and makes it burn more efficiently. There has been some criticism on these devices too: eBay.co.uk Guides - Magnetic fuel savers, how to really save money (http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Magnetic-fuel-savers-how-to-really-save-money_W0QQugidZ10000000003607696?ssPageName=BUYGD: CAT:-1:SEARCH:1)

If it works it is very reasonable to buy, but not sure about it works or not, as magnetic fields "seem" to have no effect on hydro-carbons.

Has anybody got any opinions about these fuel savers?

Elias

Elias,

I started playing around with fuel magnetization in 1983, when I lived in Santa Barbara, California and worked with Bruce DePalma. Bruce developed a whole line of devices based on pouring liquids through ring magnets. We did hundreds of experiments, and one company took his ideas and designs and built a multi-million dollar business in the water softening area. Of course, it didn't work on all water, but they made enough money to do some really good science and they found out which dissolved impurities would respond well to the system. Ultimately, they offered to do a free water analysis for any new, potential customer, to see if their water could benefit from the system. After initiating this procedure, they only had 100% satisfied customers, and they went on to make a fortune. Of course, DePalma was cheated and got nothing!

We also did hundreds of experiments on consumable liquids, mainly fruit juices and alcoholic beverages. The effects were nothing less than astonishing. Re-blending the taste of cheap wine was easy, and quite rewarding! (ooooooh yaaaa) In one test, we started with a inexpensive, watery, fruity wine called Manischewitz, poured it through the system three times, and ended up with a thick, syrupy blend that tasted like a fine liquor. Drinking 4 ounces of the stuff gave us a buzz for the rest of the afternoon! 4 ounces of the product right out of the bottle could not do this. The process, which consisted of pouring it through a stack of PM ring magnets about 12 inches tall, (three times) changed the taste and texture of the liquid, as well as changed the character of the alcoholic high.

The moral of this story is that all kinds of things happen when you magnetize liquids that "are not supposed to happen". We could even make "Hawaiian Punch" taste good!

So, does magnetizing fuel increase mileage? It can, IF it is done right. Just placing a magnet on a fuel line is not enough. What we found is this. The fuel must run PARALLEL to the lines of force for a significant distance and exit the NORTH POLE of the system. There may be other configurations that work, but that one does for sure. The benefit was about 10% better mileage. Since you can't "strap on" a ring of permanent magnets around a fuel line without disconnecting and reconnecting the fuel line itself, we never tried to market anything. The strap on units have a simplicity and an appeal like "what do I have to lose?", but I'm sure some systems work better than others. Also, I don't know what magnetic configuration these units use. Magnetizing straight across the fuel N-to-S showed little to no benefit in our tests.

Also, the formula of gasoline changes from season to season and from region to region, so uniform results should not be expected.

The company you linked to has products to magnetize the fuel, the incoming air, and the cooling system. They claim to increase mileage by an average of about 12%. My guess is that the fuel magnetization is mostly responsible for the gains.

The bottom line is...... try it and see if it works! Its a "science experiment". IF it works, its a fuel saver!

Peter

elias
01-20-2008, 06:19 PM
Thank you very much Peter and Aaron,
Peter you really gave an insight on this so I'll ask the details from the dealer. I think 15$ is worth an experiment even it doesn't really have any effect.

Peter Lindemann
01-20-2008, 06:49 PM
Thank you very much Peter and Aaron,
Peter you really gave an insight on this so I'll ask the details from the dealer. I think 15$ is worth an experiment even it doesn't really have any effect.

Elias,

If it "doesn't really have any effect", then it is NOT worth it, and you were CHEATED! Before you spend even $15, try this. Take three of the little ceramic magnets (1 inch by 2 inch) used in SSG systems, and place them on a section of NON-IRON fuel line with all North Poles facing the fuel line. They will try to repel each other, so wrap them on tightly with plastic tape.

This will approximate a system with parallel lines of force with a North Pole exit. You should be able to do this yourself, easily and not have to buy anything else.

This is where a reasonable experiment should begin.

Another configuration that should work even better would be to take 8 of the 1 x 2 ceramic magnets and place two stacks of 4 magnets on each side of the fuel line, with the South Poles facing the fuel tank and the North Poles facing the engine. This approximates the ring magnet arrangement even better, with parallel lines of force running along the fuel line for 2 inches.

Try these experiments and let us know how they work.

Peter

Redmeanie
01-20-2008, 07:06 PM
I agree with Peter on this....
We have looked at almost all possible fuel savers in our quest to leave a positive mark on humanity and our environment and this was one that seemed logical and cost effective to test....
Unlike Aaron we didn't have any luck with results that we could see, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't work!

Magnetic Water Treatment and Magnetic Fuel Treatment (Skeptical Inquirer January 1998) (http://csicop.org/si/9801/powell.html)
This is a Really decent article on the subject, I think you will find interesting...
:thumbsup:

:cheers:

Jetijs
01-20-2008, 09:08 PM
Very interesting. I was always thinking, that this isn't working at all. Especially since I watched that mythbusters episode about this. But I learned long ago that you can not trust their experiments fully since that screwup with Bedini motor. I decided to try this out, because it would be stupid not to try if you have all you need to test this :) I used two 1"x1/4" cylinder magnets in series and then duct taped many of such magnets together so that they all have their N pole on the one side and the S pole on the other. It was rather difficult since they respell each other in this configuration. The resulting array of magnets formed a "virtual" ring magnet. I put it around my 2001 year toyota yaris 1.3L motor fuel line so that the N pole is facing the motor. The fuel consumption this far was 12.4 kilometers per liter, I zeroed this out and we will si what this bring us after a week or so :)
Thanks

http://www.emuprim.lv/bildez/thumbs/lrg-141-picture_027__wince_.jpg

http://www.emuprim.lv/bildez/thumbs/lrg-142-picture_028__wince_.jpg

http://www.emuprim.lv/bildez/thumbs/lrg-143-picture_030.jpg

Peter Lindemann
01-20-2008, 09:50 PM
Jetijs,

This is a good approximation of the "ring magnet" concept. What kind of magnets are your little cylinders? We always used ceramic magnets, as it was possible to "over do" the effect and ruin the results.

Also, your fuel line in this area looks like it is made of neoprene. Are you sure that there is no iron inside.

If the magnets are ceramic and there is no iron in the fuel line in this area, this should be a good test.:cheers:

Let's hope this shows the kind of results we saw in 1983.

Peter

Jetijs
01-20-2008, 10:29 PM
Peter,
I guess then it's a false alarm, because these magnets are strong neodymium ones and also there is a iron pipe inside that rubber tube. Didn't know that magnets could be too strong. Nevertheless I will leave these magnets on the fuel pipe for a week and see what happens :)
Thank you.

Peter Lindemann
01-21-2008, 05:06 PM
Peter,
I guess then it's a false alarm, because these magnets are strong neodymium ones and also there is a iron pipe inside that rubber tube. Didn't know that magnets could be too strong. Nevertheless I will leave these magnets on the fuel pipe for a week and see what happens :)
Thank you.

Jetijs,

The real problem is the iron fuel line. Putting magnets near the iron pipe will magnetize the pipe, but cannot magnetize the fuel since little to no magnetic flux will penetrate the pipe and get into the fuel.

Both of my cars have fuel injection, which use a high pressure fuel delivery system. I never thought that replacing a section of the fuel line with something non-magnetic was wise, because the two new pipe joints might leak gasoline in the engine compartment and start a fire. NOT GOOD! This is the exact reason I have not pursued this "potential gas saver" more vigorously in the past.

Iron fuel line is standard in the industry now, and may well have been mandated to prevent the fuel magnetizers from working. Automobile engines use very little iron anymore, so it is curious that the fuel line is iron when there are numerous braided plastic tubing materials available that can handle the pressure and are probably cheaper.

Back in 1983 when we were doing the initial testing, low pressure fuel line to the carburetor was neoprene, and putting magnets on the line was simple and effective. I guess "longing for the good ol' days" means I'm getting OLD!

What luck!

Peter

Jetijs
01-21-2008, 09:35 PM
Peter,
I took another look at that fuel line. I took off some of the rubber cover of the fuel line to see what kind of pipe is inside. Turns out that it is not a iron pipe. The inner pipe is made of a strong, clear plastic. Yesterday I just touched that fuel line and felt something hard underneath the rubber, I thought it was a metal pipe, but it's not :). So that is good news. Now the only issue could be that the magnets are too strong. Will see about that in a week :)
Thank you!

elias
01-23-2008, 07:45 AM
Peter,

Thanks, I was on a trip so, I was unable to see your comments, sorry. :notworthy: I thought you meant by experimenting buying and trying it. So I went to the dealer and saw what it looked like in near examination. It looks like the magnets are positioned like the diagram I have attached, and it can be mounted in two configurations, which in the first one the magnets are attracted to each other and in the other one the magnets repel. I bought it because I thought it is only the price of the Nd magnets I am paying for, I payed about 13$ for four powerful Nd magnets with a plastic housing. Which configuration do you recommend me testing? I think that the second one may have a better effect such as it produces super-poles on the fuel line somehow.

Jetjs,

Great work you've done with those magnets, I wanted to buy those Nd magnets to build one of the configurations you have used, but those Nds are so pricey! Each of them was about 7$ or so, so I must have payed about 80$ to buy those magnets. How much did that cost you?

Elias

Jetijs
01-23-2008, 10:19 AM
elias,
I think Peter meant that the magnet configuration should be like in my attachment, so that the fuel flows parallel to the magnetic force lines.
And I buy all my neo magnets here:
Emovendo Magnets & Elements (http://www.emovendo.net/)
These are the exact magnets I am using on my fuel line now:
1/4" x 1" Cylinders :: Cylinders :: Emovendo Magnets & Elements (http://www.emovendo.net/magnet/14-x-1-cylinders.html)
I is the cheapest neodymium magnet store I found so far.
Thanks,
Jetijs

Peter Lindemann
01-23-2008, 04:37 PM
Peter,

Thanks, I was on a trip so, I was unable to see your comments, sorry. :notworthy: I thought you meant by experimenting buying and trying it. So I went to the dealer and saw what it looked like in near examination. It looks like the magnets are positioned like the diagram I have attached, and it can be mounted in two configurations, which in the first one the magnets are attracted to each other and in the other one the magnets repel. I bought it because I thought it is only the price of the Nd magnets I am paying for, I payed about 13$ for four powerful Nd magnets with a plastic housing. Which configuration do you recommend me testing? I think that the second one may have a better effect such as it produces super-poles on the fuel line somehow.

Jetjs,

Great work you've done with those magnets, I wanted to buy those Nd magnets to build one of the configurations you have used, but those Nds are so pricey! Each of them was about 7$ or so, so I must have payed about 80$ to buy those magnets. How much did that cost you?

Elias

Elias,

OK. You took the plunge and made the big investment. So let's see if we can get a mileage increase with this thing.

The first thing to do is to make sure you know the miles per gallon (km/L) your car is getting now, before installing the device. The next thing is to find a section of fuel line near your engine that is a candidate for mounting the magnetizer, and make sure there is no iron in the fuel line there. As stated before, iron fuel line will pretty much negate any magnetism getting into the fuel. A simple test is just take any magnet and see if it is attracted to the fuel line. If not, you're good to go.

Your second configuration looks OK, but if you can move all of the magnets in the plastic case, then trying the configuration Jetijs suggested might work better. The main idea is to take notes and be systematic in your testing. Run a full tank of gas for each configuration you try, and keep notes. Don't be satisfied with your first success! Keep trying different magnetic configurations until there are no more to try. Then, look at your data and see which one gave you the best results. Then, re-insert the best configuration and enjoy your maximum mileage gain..... and let the rest of us know!!!

Good luck,

Peter

elias
01-23-2008, 09:03 PM
I'll test all of the possible configurations on my Proton Wira especially the one you recommended ... and see what happens :) Thanks.

elias
01-23-2008, 09:09 PM
elias,
I think Peter meant that the magnet configuration should be like in my attachment, so that the fuel flows parallel to the magnetic force lines.
And I buy all my neo magnets here:
Emovendo Magnets & Elements (http://www.emovendo.net/)
These are the exact magnets I am using on my fuel line now:
1/4" x 1" Cylinders :: Cylinders :: Emovendo Magnets & Elements (http://www.emovendo.net/magnet/14-x-1-cylinders.html)
I is the cheapest neodymium magnet store I found so far.
Thanks,
Jetijs

Thanks Jetijs for the link, so you have payed around 120$ for those magnets, Wow!! :suprise: I hope that it works for you. Please let us know how it works.

Jetijs
01-23-2008, 10:15 PM
Elias,
where do you get your numbers from? For my fuel line mod I only used three magnet sets from that link, that is about 30$. I already had them laying around form the perendev motor project.

Karl_Palsness
01-23-2008, 11:04 PM
One point you might want to consider is that in my car the “type” of fuel I get makes a huge difference in gas mileage. So you will want to get the same grade of gas from the same supplier. Even different gas stations of the same chain can make a small difference.

Karl

elias
01-24-2008, 09:37 AM
Elias,
where do you get your numbers from? For my fuel line mod I only used three magnet sets from that link, that is about 30$. I already had them laying around form the perendev motor project.

Sorry ... I thought that 10$ is the cost of one of them, Yes it is pretty cheap for 1 $ for each of the magnets.

Jetijs
01-27-2008, 08:24 PM
Hi all,
well, a week has passed and my board computer now is showing 11.5 kilometers per liter. That is 6.85% less than those 12.4 kilometers per liter a week ago :suprise: . The driving style was about the same and the city/highway mileage ratio also the same as usual, maybe even a bit more highway driving, that should give some improvement. Instead the gas mileage got worse. I should say that in this case even a bad result is a good result because that means that the magnets around the fuel line DO have an effect on the gas mileage. In my case the magnets may be just too strong and I am just overdoing the effect. I have already ordered small ceramic cylinder magnets, that I will try next. :sun:
Thanks,
Jetijs

Aaron
01-27-2008, 08:41 PM
I should say that in this case even a bad result is a good result because that means that the magnets around the fuel line DO have an effect on the gas mileage.

YEP! I agree!

Why not use the same magnetic setup you have but reverse the polarity of everything and see if that makes a difference.

I see you have them 2 stacked end to end. Maybe after the above variation...use only single stack on the original polarity and test to see if maybe slightly weaker of same config makes a difference.

Then with the single stack reverse polarity on that too and see.

You already have the parts to do this to see if there is a difference in the above 3 extra variations...might be interesting.

Jetijs
01-27-2008, 08:46 PM
Aaron, thanks for the ideas.
Tomorrow my car will be at the service station for oil, oil filter, fuel filter, air filter change and some other repairs on the exaust. After this, the gas mileage should improve alot (actually 12.4km/l is a very high consumption for a car this small), so I will need to drive without the magnets for a while to get the average consumption. Only then I will be ready to try those different magnet configs.
Thanks,
Jetijs
:cheers:

Jetijs
02-09-2008, 07:32 PM
Hi,
I received my small 8mm diameter and 10mm long ceramic magnets. I duct taped 9 of them together in a line, so that they all have their N pole on one side and the S pole on the other side. I installed this on my car fuel line N pole facing the engine. The fuel consumption according to the board computer now is 12.1 l/km. Will see what effects this configuration will have in a week :)
Thanks,
Jetijs

Jetijs
02-16-2008, 11:31 AM
Hi all!
My second test is now over. The gas mileage increased from 12.1 to 12.4 km/l. That is 2.4% fuel economy. So the ceramic magnets work very well. You should not take thee tests too serious, because they are not accurate, because of those many variables that is needed to take in consideration, but still, if you have some suitable ceramic magnets, put them around your cars fuel line like peter showed, this is not expensive and is easily done. I will make some more accurate tests later, also in a month or so, I will have access to a waterjet engine power stand, then I will be able to test the magnet effects and the pulstar spark plugs very accurate and see the ignition curves, power/torque curves and so on :)

Chip Shorter
02-18-2008, 11:31 PM
They work a little, I messed around with those in the early nineties. If you put it on and drove a tankful you would have to see the color of the inside of your tailpipe. If it was jet black turn the magnet around. When you did that the tailpipe would lighten up. The economy improved gradually. Also I noticed the oil was staying cleaner about 500-750 miles longer versus before.
I used to have a real long commute through open country. One thing I noticed was tire pressure and width of the tire. I went to a narrower tire 195mm vs 225 and picked up like 5 miles per gallon! The factory called for 225...
Another thing that picked up mileage was a thorough clean of the battery terminals and the chassis to engine ground. On fuel injected cars the sensors that control your injector pulse width based on engine temp, outside air temp, manifold pressure or mass airflow, all rely on signals from the 0 to +5vdc region. So if your grounds are a little crusty they cause resistance that can really upset the performance of your car and waste gas.

elias
02-20-2008, 04:21 PM
Hi,

I have not done a thorough test yet, but these are my initial observations when I put the fuel saver (The commercial one which I posted the magnet arrangement earlier) on my fuel line:

1- The smell of the exhaust pipe went almost away.
2- The engine seemed to run more smoother.
3- The acceleration of it seems to be increased.

These are only crude observations, and are not to be taken seriously. I'll post much scientific experiments at a later time.

Elias

Jetijs
02-20-2008, 07:32 PM
My cars gas mileage keeps improving. Now it has reached 12.6 kilometers per liter. That is already 4% fuel economy. Again, these numbers should not be taken too seriously, but if you have these magnets laying around, it would just stupid not to use them on your car. You can't lose anything. :)

wanieda
04-22-2008, 11:34 AM
My cars gas mileage keeps improving. Now it has reached 12.6 kilometers per liter. That is already 4% fuel economy. Again, these numbers should not be taken too seriously, but if you have these magnets laying around, it would just stupid not to use them on your car. You can't lose anything. :)
Hi there..i cross this web site.."http://fuel-savermagnetic.blogspot.com

ANTIQUER
05-01-2008, 05:00 AM
Elias,

I started playing around with fuel magnetization in 1983, when I lived in Santa Barbara, California and worked with Bruce DePalma. Bruce developed a whole line of devices based on pouring liquids through ring magnets. We did hundreds of experiments, and one company took his ideas and designs and built a multi-million dollar business in the water softening area. Of course, it didn't work on all water, but they made enough money to do some really good science and they found out which dissolved impurities would respond well to the system. Ultimately, they offered to do a free water analysis for any new, potential customer, to see if their water could benefit from the system. After initiating this procedure, they only had 100% satisfied customers, and they went on to make a fortune. Of course, DePalma was cheated and got nothing!

We also did hundreds of experiments on consumable liquids, mainly fruit juices and alcoholic beverages. The effects were nothing less than astonishing. Re-blending the taste of cheap wine was easy, and quite rewarding! (ooooooh yaaaa) In one test, we started with a inexpensive, watery, fruity wine called Manischewitz, poured it through the system three times, and ended up with a thick, syrupy blend that tasted like a fine liquor. Drinking 4 ounces of the stuff gave us a buzz for the rest of the afternoon! 4 ounces of the product right out of the bottle could not do this. The process, which consisted of pouring it through a stack of PM ring magnets about 12 inches tall, (three times) changed the taste and texture of the liquid, as well as changed the character of the alcoholic high.

The moral of this story is that all kinds of things happen when you magnetize liquids that "are not supposed to happen". We could even make "Hawaiian Punch" taste good!

So, does magnetizing fuel increase mileage? It can, IF it is done right. Just placing a magnet on a fuel line is not enough. What we found is this. The fuel must run PARALLEL to the lines of force for a significant distance and exit the NORTH POLE of the system. There may be other configurations that work, but that one does for sure. The benefit was about 10% better mileage. Since you can't "strap on" a ring of permanent magnets around a fuel line without disconnecting and reconnecting the fuel line itself, we never tried to market anything. The strap on units have a simplicity and an appeal like "what do I have to lose?", but I'm sure some systems work better than others. Also, I don't know what magnetic configuration these units use. Magnetizing straight across the fuel N-to-S showed little to no benefit in our tests.

Also, the formula of gasoline changes from season to season and from region to region, so uniform results should not be expected.

The company you linked to has products to magnetize the fuel, the incoming air, and the cooling system. They claim to increase mileage by an average of about 12%. My guess is that the fuel magnetization is mostly responsible for the gains.

The bottom line is...... try it and see if it works! Its a "science experiment". IF it works, its a fuel saver!

Peter
Hi! Peter.
I found this thread recently. I bought one of those Fuel Miser's a while back; it didn't seem to do much, probably because they didn't say "Don't put in on a metal line!" Thanks for the correct info. I will be replacing that line with braided fuel line as soon as the Nm magnets arrive that I ordered.
I was also wondering if you or anyone has tried magnets on their HHO line going into the intake manifold? Any input on possible effects(good, bad,dangerous) would be appreciated.

lighty
05-01-2008, 07:52 PM
I just now looked up this thread. The way one could distribute magnetic field more evenly and reduce NdFeB too strong flux is to take a few small toroid ferrite cores (the cheap ones used as EMI filters in switching power supplies, TVs or CRT monitors) and stack them together. Then one could put that core over the fuel line and stack a few NdFeB magnets around circumference of the core (not all circumference has to be covered in magnets). One pole of magnets is always turned longitudinally to the fuel flow and all magnets are polarized in the same way as the others. In this way one can produce rather uniform magnetic field while at the same time reducing too strong flux of NdFeB and reducing the required number of magnets. It would also produce the kind of field Peter originally described.

That's of course the way I would go if I was still into experimenting with this kind of stuff. Peter was right when he said too strong flux will reduce the fuel consumption effect. The same applies when using too powerful magnets to in some other configurations used to restructure various kinds of fuel. The effect of various polarizations, geometries and flux densities is measurable when using calorimeter to measure combustion of various untreated and treated fuels. ;)

Greg Slabaugh
05-03-2008, 01:58 PM
Aaron I found this site just a little while ago and read your article about the small ceramic magnets. I was wondering did you put the magnets on the fuel line so they repel one another or do they attract one another I suspect that one was on top and the other one directly underneath. I've been trying to work on some ideas to increase gas mileage another idea I've been working on is increasing the temperature of the fuel going into the engine. Greg

Aaron
05-04-2008, 04:57 AM
Hi Greg,

I put the magnets on one side of the fuel line without having one on the other side attracting or repelling. They were only on the rubber hosing. I used round ceramic ones from Radio Shack and they were about 1/2" diameter.

You'll probably do well with the fuel heating.

I would also do something with any oxygen sensor setup you have like what Redmeanie is sharing.

lighty
05-17-2008, 07:08 PM
Iron fuel line is standard in the industry now, and may well have been mandated to prevent the fuel magnetizers from working. Automobile engines use very little iron anymore, so it is curious that the fuel line is iron when there are numerous braided plastic tubing materials available that can handle the pressure and are probably cheaper.


I just checked out with my car mechanic friend a number of high pressure fuel tubes on various Japanese, Korean and European cars. Virtually all of the new cars we checked on have rubber hose with plastic tubing inside.

Two problems I see with those fuel line is the fact that they're not flexible (they're made exactly to go to fuel injection nozzles) and they have a few bends on them so slipping on the ring magnets will probably pose a significant problem geometry-wise because in order to slip on the magnets they have to have a central opening large and that would significantly reduce the magnetic flux in the center. On the other hand one could use NdFeB magnets to get appropriate weak magnetic flux in the tube center.

The other problem is that those fuel lines have molded pressure connectors (I don't know the exact English term) on their endings in order to fit them to the nozzles. The problem is that those connectors are even larger than the fuel line itself so the magnet should be even larger.

As far as I see the only problem with testing this concept is the practical way to mount ring magnets.:thinking:

ANTIQUER
05-20-2008, 05:49 AM
I just checked out with my car mechanic friend a number of high pressure fuel tubes on various Japanese, Korean and European cars. Virtually all of the new cars we checked on have rubber hose with plastic tubing inside.

Two problems I see with those fuel line is the fact that they're not flexible (they're made exactly to go to fuel injection nozzles) and they have a few bends on them so slipping on the ring magnets will probably pose a significant problem geometry-wise because in order to slip on the magnets they have to have a central opening large and that would significantly reduce the magnetic flux in the center. On the other hand one could use NdFeB magnets to get appropriate weak magnetic flux in the tube center.

The other problem is that those fuel lines have molded pressure connectors (I don't know the exact English term) on their endings in order to fit them to the nozzles. The problem is that those connectors are even larger than the fuel line itself so the magnet should be even larger.

As far as I see the only problem with testing this concept is the practical way to mount ring magnets.:thinking:
Hi Lighty!
I think it would be easy to put 2 to 6 ceramic bar magnets around your fuel line by taping them together as Jetijs did or just stick them to the plastic with super-glue gel & then use nylon ties to hold them in place as soon as the superglue sets; or you could use Velcro instead of plastic ties.
As for using rubber fuel lines I took a piece of 5/16", put 120lbs. of pressure in it & heated it with a 700 degree heat gun for 10 min.(until the rubber was smoking) with no visible effect on the hose; that should replace any fuel line I know of with no problems. I used to have a Ford E-350 truck with a 350 v-8 engine (fuel injected). The fuel filter was in line & attached in the middle of the steel fuel line with 2 short pieces of rubber fuel line & 4 hose clamps (O.E.M.) I agree with Peter the steel lines & fancy fuel filter arrangements are mostly to thwart attempts to use magnets(and also to make repairs,etc. more difficult).
I hope you get the magnets on shortly & post results. You can get those ceramic bar magnets at Home Depot If you have one close.

lighty
05-20-2008, 11:47 AM
@ANTIQUER

Well, personally I do not believe in conspiracy theory related to the fuel lines in cars. As I said- I haven't find a single iron reinforced hose in my Korean car and in most new Japanese and European cars. Sorry but evidences doesn't support that theory.

As for the magnets there are some things to consider- just taping a few magnets won't give you homogenous magnetic field and you will get a number of smaller reversed polarity field between the primary ones. That 's why I suggested using a ferrite tube in order to equalize and homogenize those fields to some extent.

As for the magnets- I'm not from the US but since my friend have a small company importing magnets for industry I have easy and cheap access to various forms and strength magnets (mostly NdFeB I'm afraid).

Regarding measurement of results I'm afraid it simply cannot be done reliably installing the system on the car engine especially the ones that uses car computer to compensate for various outside parameters. One would have to use test-bench measurements (I do have access to that equipment but simply don't have time to make it happen) or using simpler methods- one could use portable electrical generator. It always have constant load (to be exact it has to be used without any load) and the main parameters don't change with time.

For example I would fire up the generator (without any load connected and without magnets added to the fuel line), wait for 5-10 minutes for engine to reach working temperature and then I would add a fuel to the exactly marked level in the reservoir (it would help if the reservoir is transparent but it isn't necessary one can easily use a dipstick). Then, after a precise amount of time (60 minutes at least in order to allow for significant difference to aggregate) I would turn off the generator and add fuel to the previously marked level while measuring precisely how much fuel was added. After that I would add magnets on the fuel line and repeat the exactly same procedure as in the first case. Two experiments would have to be done immediately one after another in the same location in order to prevent the change in atmosphere barometric pressure and temperature to affect the results. Several runs of both measurement would be needed in order to establish at least some statistical relevance. The same batch of fuel would also need to be used for all the measurements etc. Then, and only then you can get at least somewhat precise measurement while reducing outside variables as much as possible.:v-peace:

brkooduh66
07-22-2010, 10:31 PM
Go to McMaster-Carr:
1- 54605K34, Low Pressure SAE Fuel Hose 3/8" ID, 5/8" OD, 50 PSI, 2 ft
2- 5856K4, High-Temp Ceramic Ring Magnet 1.08"OD X .597"ID, 1/4" Thick, .75 Pull lbs, 32 ea
3- 5388K16, Worm-Drive Hose Clamp 7/16" to 25/32" Range, 2 pack of 10

I bought 2 feet of hose, and 32 rings, and 20 clamps for a total of $25.50. Enough materials to build 8 of you own Magnetic Fuel Savers on the cheep. Use one, and set up your family and friends for $3.20 each.

Cut a 3 inch piece of tube squeeze 4 rings over the tubing (all facing same direction...i left 1/2" between each ring). put a hose clamp on each end. install it somewhere in your fuel line close to the carberator as you can, NORTH pole towards the carb (your choice how you get it inline)

You are welcome,
brkooduh66

dubsta
07-23-2010, 01:39 AM
If your car has a carb, I don't doubt this could be helpful...for modern day ECU driven vehicles with STOICH so tightly adhered too by the computer it would be very hard for this to make a significant gain.

Anyone else think different?

elias
07-24-2010, 07:51 AM
Hi

This study might be useful, the author claims that magnetic fields can decrease the viscosity of a hydrocarbon fuel.

Elias

ashtweth
07-25-2010, 01:38 AM
Elias Thanks man!

amtmagnet
08-11-2010, 03:05 PM
you can see this product on the website:AMT Magnetics Co.,Ltd.Magnetic Permanent,Permanent Magnet.Rare Earth Magnet,Magnetic Tools (http://www.amtmag.com)

Aaron
02-20-2011, 10:24 PM
Here's my first post on this topic at my blog and more to come. I hope
everyone finds it informative.

Magnetic Fuel Saver | Debunking Mainstream Pseudoscience | Aaron Murakami's Blog (http://aaronmurakami.com/blog/2011/02/12/magnetic-fuel-saver-debunking-mainstream-pseudoscience/)

hijacker
03-18-2011, 03:34 PM
Here's my first post on this topic at my blog and more to come. I hope
everyone finds it informative.

Magnetic Fuel Saver | Debunking Mainstream Pseudoscience | Aaron Murakami's Blog (http://aaronmurakami.com/blog/2011/02/12/magnetic-fuel-saver-debunking-mainstream-pseudoscience/)

Hi,
nice article over there, I have submitted a reply asking for more information about the actual implementation.

Can you shed some light on this please?

Do we need to achieve alternating magnetic fields by placing the magnets in this order:

N S N S N S
FUEL LINE
S N S N S N

Or is it enough to just have one pole like this:

NN
SS
FUEL LINE


or

SS
NN
FUEL LINE


Which is the most efficient method? Also what magnets are best to be used?

Thanks in advance!
-Nik

yeron
05-10-2011, 10:20 AM
Hello to you all
Bit of an old thread .

Maybe a stupid idea but........

Has anyone tried a (modified) version of the leedskalnin pmh on a fuel line ?
The theory on that is that individual north and south magnets are flowing inside the system and leaving and entering the system continuously.

Just an idea :
Build the pmh as normal but instead of a massive "soft"' iron bar do that with a hollow thick pipe so the flux path is created around a fuel line.
What i mean is mount the fuel line inside of the whole pmh following the path of the magnetic current .

Like the model of emery but use a thick pipe bend in a u shape
cover the ends with a thick iron bar and drill holes at the points where the two ends of the u shape meet and touch the bar.
Feed the fuel line throe the whole pmh north to south or south to north.


Anyone tried this yet?

Again ,may be a stupid idea but in my own observations on the pmh it seems that the forces involved are somewhat a sort of a living thing and since fuel is a ""dead"" fossil .....

It maybe as weird as the joe cell story ,there is more to these sytems than meet the "(educated)'' eye /ear /nose .......

Greetings from Holland

Yeron

Aaron
05-10-2011, 05:05 PM
Yeron,

That would be an interesting experiment. Would probably work but I
don't see any extra advantage over permanent magnets. If the
polarity is right in relation to the direction of fluid movement - would
probably give same effect as permanent magnets.

yeron
05-13-2011, 07:58 AM
Hello Aaron

Thanks for your reply
I was just thinking of ways to tackle the mileage on my car.
One of them is try out your ideas of plasma ignition in combination with water mist "" ïnjection"".(vacuum air manifold)
It makes sense to me using just fine pure water in microscopic mist by using a ultrasonic mistmaker as these are available.
Driving in misty conditions has the effect of smooth running of the engine.
Some people have tested this so something to think about.

i have orderd a peace of OBD2 equipment for my car to get realtime readouts of the sensors. Mainly the lambda sensor readout is important so i can trick the computer if necessary by altering the voltage signal.
If the signals indicate that there is more oxygen the computer will add more fuel even when it is because there is a better combustion .
Could be very interesting to see more data on what the car is doing .

I already have done some experiments on a 1989 toyota carina (carburator) with a HHO cell in combination with a lambda signal tweak so the computer always thinks he has got the ideal mixture.
Got 20 km on one liter instead of 15 to one.
Seemed to work very well until the cell got completely clogged up by corrosion.
The guy i bougt it from has lied about the quality of the ss steel plates.
took it for a test measurement at the lokal scrap dealer an he confirmed Bad 304 instead of the minimum 316l plates.
This car is still on the road running perfect no damage done.

This next experiment will be on a Mitsubishi lancer 1998 injection.
A combination of watervapor and if the infos in your book are complete enough to build a plasma ignition i will do that.

I will order the ignition secrets download from you i think .
and maybe tinkering about with magnets or the leedskalnin pmh on the fuel lines.


Greetings

Yeron

Jetijs
05-13-2011, 09:04 AM
Yeron, your hho cell will degrade no matter what steel type if you wond use pure distilled water and KOH or NaOH as electrolyte. Tap water has many minerals in it, and using soda or salt as electrolyte will eat you steel plates up quickly leaving just gunk. That will happen even to 316 grade steel. So use only distilled water and right electrolytes and you will be fine.

Aaron
05-13-2011, 04:36 PM
Hello Aaron

Thanks for your reply
I was just thinking of ways to tackle the mileage on my car.
One of them is try out your ideas of plasma ignition in combination with water mist "" ïnjection"".(vacuum air manifold)
It makes sense to me using just fine pure water in microscopic mist by using a ultrasonic mistmaker as these are available.
Driving in misty conditions has the effect of smooth running of the engine.
Some people have tested this so something to think about.

i have orderd a peace of OBD2 equipment for my car to get realtime readouts of the sensors. Mainly the lambda sensor readout is important so i can trick the computer if necessary by altering the voltage signal.
If the signals indicate that there is more oxygen the computer will add more fuel even when it is because there is a better combustion .
Could be very interesting to see more data on what the car is doing .

I already have done some experiments on a 1989 toyota carina (carburator) with a HHO cell in combination with a lambda signal tweak so the computer always thinks he has got the ideal mixture.
Got 20 km on one liter instead of 15 to one.
Seemed to work very well until the cell got completely clogged up by corrosion.
The guy i bougt it from has lied about the quality of the ss steel plates.
took it for a test measurement at the lokal scrap dealer an he confirmed Bad 304 instead of the minimum 316l plates.
This car is still on the road running perfect no damage done.

This next experiment will be on a Mitsubishi lancer 1998 injection.
A combination of watervapor and if the infos in your book are complete enough to build a plasma ignition i will do that.

I will order the ignition secrets download from you i think .
and maybe tinkering about with magnets or the leedskalnin pmh on the fuel lines.


Greetings

Yeron

Yeron,

It would be easiest to use permanent magnets in the way that
the Magnet Secrets book by Peter Lindemann describes or just
get them from http://www.magnetizerproducts.com/magnetizer

I went from 17 to 20 mpg in the city with a 2.5 liter Subaru boxer engine
after I put on the gasoline maximizer set. The only other modification
on the car is racing headers, which would have dropped the city mileage
a bit but increased the highway mileage. Anyway, 17 to 20 is about a
15% difference.

Using PMH would be overkill for this application - the magnetic field
won't do anything different than what permanent magnets will do.

I got rid of a Honda Civic that I did a lot of tests on but want to get
another one for testing - but I want a VX model, which is hard to come
by.

Plasma, water injection or hho, EFIE, and magnets should all be synergistic.

Other things you can consider are condensators (with silica gel filter
for the blow by output - adsorption) - only clean vapor returns to the
engine.

Depending on if you do mostly city or highway driving, a slightly larger
exhaust to reduce back pressure and a cold air intake system.

But one of the most significant differences you can make, which is not
practical for most people is the aerodynamics by making the back end
of your car like a tear drop so to speak - with that, someone got almost
100 mpg in a Honda Civic.

lance_cory
08-15-2011, 08:32 PM
Hi,
I work for a company that produces magnetic filtration devices. We have investigated other uses of magnetic technology in the automotive field, including magnetic fuel savers. In out experiments, we used only Neodymium (neodymium iron boron, NdFeB) magnets. We tried them with North poles facing the fuel, Spout poles facing the fuel, combinations such that the fuel went through North and South fields alternately. We also varied the space between the magnets and the fuel lines to effect changes in field strength. Our testing was not very sophisticated. We used various employer cars, both gasoline and diesel, and we did out testing a various steady state speeds, on days when there was no wind, and temperature, humidity, and barometric pressure were withing a few percentage points.
Our fuel consumption was mesured with on board flow meters and a lap top computer as a data logger. Our initial tests were such, that we saw very little variation in fuel mileage, and no consistency such that we could get a predictable and significant improvement. Because of this, we discontinued the program as not being worth further investment of resources.
We had looked into a few studies done at universities on this, and found one that seemed credible. However, it was on a steady state diesel generator, a situation and application that bore little similarity to automobile use. It was however, enough to convince us that there was something to the concept, and so we blew a few thousand dollars on primitive R&D to satisfy our curiosity.
I offer this as one who had a professional interest in this prinicple working, as it could have been a money maker for us. In reality, it still could be. We could be selling fuel savers as other do, and making sales and profit based on psuedo science and conjured explanations, but we will not do so. Our reputation is important, and our principles are dear to us. We could have formed another company in order to keep out reputation intact, but we just cannot rob people.
For those interested, here is a link to a sight (http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/gas-mileage/1802932) were testing was done on a few different types of fuel savers - magnetic, water injection, vortex inducers.
Just in case anyone wonders about whether magnets work to change signals at stubborn intersections (sometimes motorcycles and bicycles lack enough magnetic mass to alter the inductance in buried sensor coils), we experimented with that also. The results were mixed. We definetly could get it to work reliably at some intersections, but not at all. We felt they would be worthwhile in a lot of instances, but because of the uncertainty of the results, we were (and are) reluctant to enter that market, though we have not ruled it out.
I know this is an old thread, but I though this info might be useful to future veiwers of the thread, maybe help save someone a few dollars and some wasted time.
On the other hand, just because we were not able to create any fuel savings with magnets (apart from marginal long term savings through magnetic filtration), does not mean necessarily that some innovator will not find a way to get them to work. However, I would not invest any money in that until such time that independent, verifiable and reputable testing shows them to be worthwhile.
Since this is about saving fuel (I think) I will add one thing from personal experience. The only bolt on that I have used that significantly altered my fuel mileage for the better (not counting things that modified the system - like less restrictive exhaust) was a front spoiler / air dam on a 1978 Chevrolet 1 Ton van with a 350 cu. in. motor and a 3 speed automatic transmission. I had long term fuel usage records both before and after that addition, and it provided a solid 20% improvement in combined city/highway driving. Given the aerodynamic nature of the device, I assume that the improvement was all in the highway portion. Since my driving was mostly city, I suspect that the highway mileage was increased greatly to register a 20% improvement overall.

magtech
09-20-2012, 02:04 PM
Elias,

If it "doesn't really have any effect", then it is NOT worth it, and you were CHEATED! Before you spend even $15, try this. Take three of the little ceramic magnets (1 inch by 2 inch) used in SSG systems, and place them on a section of NON-IRON fuel line with all North Poles facing the fuel line. They will try to repel each other, so wrap them on tightly with plastic tape.

This will approximate a system with parallel lines of force with a North Pole exit. You should be able to do this yourself, easily and not have to buy anything else.

This is where a reasonable experiment should begin.

Another configuration that should work even better would be to take 8 of the 1 x 2 ceramic magnets and place two stacks of 4 magnets on each side of the fuel line, with the South Poles facing the fuel tank and the North Poles facing the engine. This approximates the ring magnet arrangement even better, with parallel lines of force running along the fuel line for 2 inches.

Try these experiments and let us know how they work.

Peter

i quite agree with what Peter told here. magnetic fuel saver is really a kind of GREEN energy-saving tools for cars, buses, vehicles, trucks etc. i am now using it on my private car. it save more fuel cost for me each month. i bought it here. you can get it here: MAGTECH-Your One-Stop Magnetic Tools Shop - Small Orders Online Store, Hot Selling Permanent magnetic lifter,magnetic lifter,lifting magnets and more on Aliexpress.com (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/714266)
just have a try! you will be surprised with its benefit! wish you good luck!

Howard

Aaron
09-20-2012, 04:24 PM
For those interested, here is a link to a sight (http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/gas-mileage/1802932) were testing was done on a few different types of fuel savers - magnetic, water injection, vortex inducers.

That article in Popular Mechanics is nothing but pure quack science.

I refute some of the bogus misinformation in that article here: Magnetic Fuel Saver | Debunking Mainstream Pseudoscience | Aaron Murakami's Blog (http://aaronmurakami.com/blog/2011/02/12/magnetic-fuel-saver-debunking-mainstream-pseudoscience/)

jydenleif
02-02-2014, 10:44 PM
My cars gas mileage keeps improving. Now it has reached 12.6 kilometers per liter. That is already 4% fuel economy. Again, these numbers should not be taken too seriously, but if you have these magnets laying around, it would just stupid not to use them on your car. You can't lose anything. :)

Hi

what was the finally result of your results of test thise magnetics ?

best wishes Leif

Cycle
04-09-2014, 06:17 AM
If the signals indicate that there is more oxygen the computer will add more fuel even when it is because there is a better combustion .



Hi, yeron.

I'm confused about something. Coming from a mechanical engineering background with 25+ years experience in boiler operation, my experience has been that when combustion efficiency is improved, the oxygen content in the exhaust stream goes *down*... more of the fuel is being burned, which is consuming more of the oxygen. In boiler operation (at least for the boilers I currently operate), we're aiming for about 3.7% oxygen in the exhaust stream, so if we improve combustion efficiency, we have to either let in more air (open the forced air inlet dampers a bit), or cut back on exhaust gas recirc (EGR) (close the EGR dampers a bit).

Doesn't an engine work the same way? If you increase the amount of fuel being burned during any given combustion cycle, the amount of oxygen consumed increases, thereby giving a lower oxygen content in the exhaust stream?

wrtner
04-09-2014, 04:12 PM
This approximates the ring magnet arrangement even better, with parallel lines of force running along the fuel line for 2 inches.

The ring magnets in microwave ovens (in the magnetron) should do nicely, especially since recycling centres are glad to give away the ovens. About 2.5 inch outside diameter, two per oven. N and S on the large surfaces.

High Performance Permanent Ferrite Ring Magnet (http://www.imexbb.com/high-performance-permanent-ferrite-ring-magnet-11429190.htm)

sprocket
04-09-2014, 05:42 PM
I tried this for almost a year - eight 50 x 5 x 5 neos stuck to a piece of tin wrapped around the fuel-line in the hope it would help generate a more even magnetic field. There was no improvement whatsoever in fuel consumption. One more thing that doesn't work crossed off my list...

wrtner
04-10-2014, 01:41 PM
I tried this for almost a year - eight 50 x 5 x 5 neos stuck to a piece of tin wrapped around the fuel-line in the hope it would help generate a more even magnetic field. There was no improvement whatsoever in fuel consumption. One more thing that doesn't work crossed off my list...
It doesn't look as if you arranged them as Peter suggested, i.e. providing a resultant mag field which runs up the fuel pipe.

BroMikey
07-03-2019, 02:00 AM
Hello Aaron
I want to help a person who can't afford the gas to drive her Durango
by using magnets on the fuel lines. Does anyone has any data here
that they work? Or are they only a 3% boost?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rYHihCBSEk

Pot head
07-03-2019, 06:02 AM
Heating the fuel to expansion and then nebulizing before ignition, focusing the combusted mix into a turbo charger; beyond his performance spark plugs, what I just wrote will work better than the magnets,
But this is only my opinion.
If the turbo was hooked together with magnet powered coil energy, fuel costs would go down and then run on battery for the highway.
Hybrid thought of me.
Corn diesel would fit into the senario much more cheaply.

Stealth
07-03-2019, 06:56 PM
Not only will magnets, correctly oriented, reduced fuel consumption, by helping to break up the hydrocarbons, but will also break up the calcium in hard water to make the water to become more easily saturated with soaps and detergents to allow for less usage. It will also help eliminate buildup in hot water tanks and also help to keep kidney stones from forming in most cases. Where I live in the southeastern mountains, hard water is in most of our water. I have used magnets on my fuel lines for years, as well as on my plastic water pipes, although I no longer use a tank type hot water heater. Hope this helps. Good Luck. stealth