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geron
01-04-2008, 02:08 AM
Hello all,

After I also got on board of the researching the Bedini machine, I like to propose the analyzing it: step by step, following all processes and events, that are happening.
Each one of us is knowing the slides of the combustion motor and what it is doing with each of its strokes.

Thus I think, to do the same: each step outlining with one slide (of Powerpoint or OO-Impress) and anatomizing each event, that has to be assigned and associated to the current step.

Steps I think are

- the arriving of the magnets field to the coil
- the triggering of the circuit
- the switching / closing the circuit
- the unswitching / opening the circuit
- collapsing of the magnetic field / charging to the battery

(or maybe more or less)

At this stages I'd like to look simultaneously at what's going on:
how is the magnetic field changing? what current is flowing? how about the voltages?
and - off course - what exactly is the radiant energy doing? which way does it behaves, surrounding our device and stepping into / affecting it?

In addition: when we have this slides / steps outlined, they may be varied by alterations / improvements of the motor.

This outlining can't and shouldn't be perfect with the first attempt. It should be gradually improved by adding learning, experiences and knowledge by analysis.The same slides would look significantly otherwise maybe three years later, while we learned and developed our undestanding.

Thus while we might recognize the Bedini monopole to be our hardware-device for our experiences and knowledge relating radiant energy, such an step-by-step outlining might be a suitable "software"-device complementing ist.

Maybe there is already such an approach that was overlooked by me? In this case I'd like to habe a hint / link to the source.

wish for successful developing of monopoles, radiant science and like that..

geron

ren
01-04-2008, 03:11 AM
It is a great idea Geron, but I think that we need to understand the WHY before the how. I think for people to fully grasp what is occuring inside the monopole motor one needs to have a full understanding of the natures involved. I think the reason JB's machines are so well constructed is that he studied Tesla and his works, and from that he has a very good understanding of what energy is.

Its all very well to understand how the machine works, but I think to master it we must understand why it works the way it does. How can we truly replicate the monopole without first understanding what it is that is driving it? I am only meaning to be constructive here, I think a study of the coil and what actually happens to the energy is a good starting point.

robbie47
01-04-2008, 08:48 AM
Hi Geron,

I have also done a lot of reading and study before I am going to start building machines to understand as much as possible.
Similar to your idea, I am intending to split the analysis into the moving and non-moving parts.

On several forums like free energy (http://www.overunity.com) I notice also a lot of activiies like Tom Bearden MEG technology. Bearden intensively cooperated with John Bedini. MEGs have simular principles, using back EMF and high voltage pulses to charge batteries, but without moving magnets.


Thinking of splitting up research of the Bedini monopole, I like to split up following effects:
- Investigate the pulsed charging effect on (lead-acid) batteries. It looks like charging lead-acid batteries with high voltage pulses is much more efficient than charging them with DC sources. This could divert the enthusiasm of achieving overunity.
- pulsing a coil and charging a battery without using a moving magnet using an oscillating circuit (e.g. using an NE555 IC).

If I understand correctly, the JB machines adapt to the impedance of the batteries while being charged. I like to understand that better as well (e.g. SSG machines)
This is coupled with the self oscillating effect in these machines.
I like to understand the components that influence this oscillating effect as well.

I am curious how others may see the analysis regarding these sub-parts




-

elias
01-04-2008, 09:58 AM
Hello Geron, and Welcome to this forum,

I started getting famalier with Bedini's machines about 5 months ago, and at first you don't realize why this simple machine, must have complex behavior, but now I understand that it is a small machine which operates on nature's principles.

Here is how I understand the monopole:

Consider the monopole as a human being which is connected to the sea of energy via the battery. This human being does a little triggering (the magnet) and lets the surrounding energy flow into it and make it turn and turn and turn. While turning it lets nature replenish diseases and impurities (i.e the secondary battery) with sharp impulses. (which in this case the primary battery which is being closed down can be replaced by a fresh charged battery)

Elias

geron
01-04-2008, 12:29 PM
Thanx to all for replying.

It is a great idea Geron, but I think that we need to understand the WHY before the how. I think for people to fully grasp what is occuring inside the monopole motor one needs to have a full understanding of the natures involved.

Thats what I think too: understanding the "why";
My proposal should offer a tool, to develope this understanding

I didn't want to override the declarations of Bedini and Bearden with it.
I want to give them and otherwise achieved analysis and knwoledge of this matter a kind of "sreen" to sort and illustrate it for a better understanding, a basis for further researching and developing.

Otherwise you're mostly in danger, while confusing things, that were grasped rightly with others, that aren't really understood with the result of falling back, generating more confusion, but not gaining some headway.

Therefore, to avoid this, using such a tool like a "screen" fixing our results of understanding this matters.

It will not be perfect at the beginning, but should go the way of improvement, while we learn and experience the behaviour of the machine and the energy, that's working with it.
And, off course, pick up what we have learned out of the exposures of Bedini, Bearden and others, who share there advanced knowledge, outlining it at our "screen".

Hope this helps to understand my proposal.

Geron

Sephiroth
01-04-2008, 07:22 PM
I have been trying to get a step by step picture in my head about what is happening here as well! But for every "slide" I add, it reveals there must be many more slides in between... It is a learning process and one that I don't think I am anywhere near completing!

I tried describing in another thread what I think is happening in the motor (though noticing holes in the theory) and then Aaron mentions "Heaviside flow" which I had never even heard of so it was back to the drawing board! Electrically what is happening in the circuit is pretty simple, however the nature of radiant energy is still a bit of a mystery. I'm pretty sure understanding Radiant Energy is the key to understanding the energiser.

I'm pretty sure this is what john intends... it is a slower process then simply being taught what the motor is doing but it is a more efficient method (over unity? lol)....

If John describes exactly what is going on and then someone asks us how we know what is happening in the circuit is actually happening all we can say is "cos bedini says so!" lol... which is not productive.... doing it this way we find that we stumble across the same conclusions through independent experiments. I like to think this helps validate the motor and the science behind it.

Though I'm not saying this is a bad idea at all! I would love to hear other peoples views on what is happening in the circuit!

geron
01-04-2008, 09:21 PM
Again: the idea was just to have with this step-by-step analysis (by using of slides outlining the stages) a work in progress, that initially will have some flaws.
This flaws then should gradually be corrected - if it takes 3 month or 3 years.
Then - when sufficient progress has achieved - it might find its way into some scientific magazin.

@elias:I like to support your picture.
But still want a detailed view at it: which way the "sea of energy" works and might be tapped with our machine.

@sephiroth:
the "Heaviside-component" just means our radiant energy:

http://www.cheniere.org/images/meg/f4.jpg

http://www.cheniere.org/images/meg/f5.jpg
http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/070904.htm

I got problems by understandig this:
http://www.cheniere.org/images/meg/f2.jpg

how works the transducing of the complex EM-energy into "real" EM-energy?
which kind of real EM will we get?
Which kind of design needs the dipole to do the transducing?
And how looks its design within our Bedini-device?
How to imagine the "Heaviside-component" around it?


http://www.cheniere.org/images/meg/f3.jpg

This seems to be important. But I'm just having problems, really grasping it.

Is here somebody able to give a declaration?

Sephiroth
01-04-2008, 09:41 PM
nice diagrams! So is the drude electron gas the current? Though It looks like the current would flow in the opposite direction to the Heaviside flow... I thought they went in the same direction and the anti photon potential travelled in the opposite direction?

Sephiroth
01-04-2008, 09:53 PM
how works the transducing of the complex EM-energy into "real" EM-energy?
which kind of real EM will we get?
Which kind of design needs the dipole to do the transducing?
And how looks its design within our Bedini-device?
How to imagine the "Heaviside-component" around it?

From what I understand the complex em energy is "absorbed" by the field created by the dipole.

the complex em energy (in terms of virtual particles) doesn't have enough energy (density?) within itself to perpetuate its existance and so normally would sink back into the Zero Point/Quantum Vacuum. However, the field around a dipole absorbs this virtual particle in a similar way a photon is absorbed into an electron shell and increases the energy within that field. And then another and another is assimilated until the field becomes unstable and emits its excess energy in the form of a real photon.

I suppose the heaviside flow would be a term to describe the field created between a dipole that captures the energy from vacuum fluctations?

Schpankme
01-05-2008, 03:49 AM
From what I understand the complex em energy is "absorbed" by the field created by the dipole.


I highly recommend you get Energy From The Vacuum; at 54 minutes into the second DVD, John Bedini tells you step by step how the Radiant Energy is derived and how it is sent to the batteries. "Radiant energy doesn't care how many batteries there are, that's why I always show more than one being recharged".

BEDINI'S METHOD FOR FORMING NEGATIVE RESISTORS IN BATTERIES - Thomas E. Bearden
http://www.cheniere.org/techpapers/Bedini.pdf

- Schpankme

Sephiroth
01-05-2008, 04:02 AM
lol... watched it about a dozen times! I let it play in the background!

Sephiroth
01-05-2008, 04:05 AM
wow! Havent seen that pdf though! will read it now! Cheers!

elias
01-05-2008, 06:42 AM
lol... watched it about a dozen times! I let it play in the background!

I have watched it so much that I hear Bedini whispering in my head sometimes. :rofl:

People! these are new things, and there aren't many who are involved in this research area, except hobbyists all around the Internet (Universities don't fund these types of research, because they don't believe in it). So I don't think that it is properly understood what's "exactly" going on. But the effects are profound which Bedini, has verified, and Bearden is trying to explain by some theories, but remember these are theories after all and may not be so close to the truth.

More experimentation may reveal more about what's going on. We must learn to be a good observer, and forget conventional view on circuits as much as possible.

Elias

geron
01-05-2008, 10:57 AM
From what I understand the complex em energy is "absorbed" by the field created by the dipole.

the complex em energy (in terms of virtual particles) doesn't have enough energy (density?) within itself to perpetuate its existance and so normally would sink back into the Zero Point/Quantum Vacuum.

May it be that way, that the magnetic field, generated by the current flowing through the conductor causes an ordering of the energy-particles, driving them to flow along the conductor, like we see in figure 5?

Maybe, otherwise - without the magnetic field - it will move chaotic, causing pushes within the conductor into every direction, thus neutralizing each effect.
But its magnetic straight directed, its flowing parallell to the conductor and also not helping. But if we have a majority of particles divergent from the parallell direction and entering the conductor giving a pressure to mostly one of the both directions, we're earning the energy - my understanding for now.
I know an analogical effect when sailing: you don't get the most speed with the wind from the back. You may move faster, than the wind, if it comes fram aside!

Another point is the hint, that the energy enters 4-space-symmetry from 3-fold, or changes between them.
But we're having difficulties to imagine the 4-fold space and maybe therefore to grasp what's going on here.

Also imagining energy and its behavior in the gaseous state is just somthing, one has to learn, to get familiar with.
But if its like that,, we have to turn our conceptual thinking onto it.

Geron

illchemist
01-05-2008, 05:56 PM
I'm just getting started with understanding the electronics behind this but I have read Free Energy Generation and watched the EFV series. I discovered this stuff through reading about EM weather mod technologies.

I am not a physicist but I enjoy it's constant parallels to ancient mysticism. For example, David Bohm's work closely followed Buddhist philosophy. Things like 'infinite potential' and 'potential without form' have been conceived for a long time. Some interpretations of the Tree of life sound similar to what we are talking about here. Perhaps we are toying with 'Yesod.' The user, 'Sephiroth' might chime in here. ;)

I think Bearden's theories are difficult but seems to be the best thing going. He lays the foundation using highly recognized physics and also tries to explain metaphysical and 'supernatural' phenomena.

As far as Radiant energy goes, it seems we are going to be hard pressed to be able to explain this to the closed-minded scientists unless we can draw up a somewhat solid model which can predict certain phenomena. Since radiant energy cannot be measured, what can we measure? The rate of charging, COP, etc. Like organic chemistry, I feel that patterns will only be revealed by using tedious experiments where a only a single variable is tweaked and results are recorded. It will take a large concerted effort.

Does anyone here understand Maxwell's original quaternion-based equations? I assume Tesla was one of the few. I really have to brush up on my math to try to tackle that. :)

Also, the ideas of charging batteries is very useful but most of our home appliances have rectifiers that use AC current. How could we use our existing electronics with radiant energy? I apologize as I am not that well versed with electronics (but that is quickly changing :rolleyes: ). I do like the classical 'radiant energy' terminology over 'negative' energy, though.

its good to be here...

Ewhaz
01-05-2008, 07:15 PM
While it may help to know the actual mechanics of HOW radiant energy works, it doesn't seem very practical to me to work on that just yet. What I mean by that is for example, one does not need to know nuclear physics to understand how to use the sun's energy to run a solar cell. Bedini makes a good point in his the free energy video when he talks about the modern electrodynamic model. He basically said something to the effect of 'Has any one every seen Ion's flowing through a conductor?' the answer was of course No. We can measure Voltage (potential difference) and amperage (work or load) but that does not necessarily mean it is Ion flow as we understand it.

What we Can do is make observations about things we can test, and learn from other people who have worked on this before. I'll put up what little I understand about the process now from what I remember from the video and the book.

Basic Principles.
* Any impedance can become a negative resistor (shows Gains in negative or radiant energy).
* Negative Energy (radiant energy) works in Reverse of normal Electricity. Where as electricity shows a loss at any impedance, negative energy shows a gain instead. Negative energy also flows in reverse of the electrical flow (IE from the negative to the positive)
* Negative energy is conversant (drawn to inductors) where as electricity is divergent (pushing away from inductors, Think Radio waves or EM fields around wires).
* IMPORTANT. Sharp gradients violate the laws of thermo dynamics! What this means in electricity is simply sharp pulses (Sharp Saw tooth wave form, a quick ON and OFF.) shows Gains in electricity.. IE its where the negative energy shows up!
* Negative energy cannot be used to power electronic devices, it must first be transmuted into normal electricity. This can ONLY be done in a dipole, IE capacitors or batteries.
* Dipoles require a conditioning time frame. After repeated exposure they show greater gains in negative energy flow.
* Negative Energy happens BEFORE current flow. The second Current shows up, the event is over and negative energy is destroyed.
* Negative energy without current flow damages dipoles to the point of being inoperable. Some current flow is needed, for whatever reason, to prevent this.
* Voltage is instant, current isn't. Remember all those experiments you learned about in school, the line of people standing together hand in hand who get zapped? Every person jumps at the same time. In electrical theory the idea is that the Ions act like the cars in a train. Push one from the back and the one at the front gets shoved forward as well.
* Negative energy flows very slowly.

It's been a while since I've dealt heavily with the electrodynamic theory so there may be something I'm missing. Ion flow IS technically Current flow, however there may be something about the mechanics that requires time to get up to full force, and since we know that negative energy is convergent and positive energy (electrical energy) is divergent (Think radio waves) and that current negates negative energy flow it may be simply that once the current flows the divergent energy field effectively creates a barrier to negative energy, this may also be why current flow destroys the dipole (depletes the battery, capacitor etc), it shuts off the gate that allows the negative energy to become electricity.

These to me are the basics to understanding how to use and work with negative energy. There is some information that seems to suggest that electricity is already a radiant event, that in fact the chemical and electromagnetic effects are the gates at which Radiant energy is transmuted into normal electricity as we know it. Understanding this may be the key to getting HUGE gains in free energy but that may have to wait until this all becomes main stream and the major universities can take a hold of this information and begin testing it with the billions of dollars available in grants and such. For us little guys all we can do is observe and come up with theories and test them.

Theory
So heres a theory about what happens during the event. We first have a sharp gradient. The Ions initially surge forward but require time to get up to speed. Their divergent field is minimal at this point so we also get the convergent energy in the form of Radiant energy flooding into the system. Flowing backward from the negative to the positive, the Negative energy employs gains along any impedance in the path (this is possibly why switching on the negative side shows more gains that on the positive side). As the current begins to speed up, its divergent field begins to grow. At some point the potential difference between the convergent and divergent fields becomes equal and eventually out of balance so that the convergent field can no longer compete with the faster and thus stronger field and is negated or destroyed. However knowing this we've quickly dumped the pulse into a dipole in order to make use of the negative energy before it's had a chance to be destroyed. There the chemical composition of the dipole is acted upon by the negative energy, pulling rather than pushing the ions forward. The effect is so quick that the ions don't even have time to react properly and in fact are left with a potential difference after the event has ended, leading to further charging. Because the chemicals are acted upon by the negative energy rather than current flow, they are also conditioned to respond more effectively to the pulse of negative energy. The faster these negative pulses come into the dipole, the faster it charges.

Let me make this perfectly clear that this is only a theory of whats going on. I am most likely incorrect as I'm building my theory to fit the above set of points as I understand them as they were presented to me. They explain the physics of this all in Beardens book 'Free energy secrets' but most of that was beyond my understanding at the moment. They involved heavy electrodynamic theory, quantum theory, particle physics theory etc. At the moment I don't have the patience to educate myself in those fields to understand it in depth. I also may be incorrect in my understanding of electrodynamic theory.

This theory is simplifying what I understand from my observations and the information I've gotten so far from this forum and other sources. I hope this helps.

Ideas based on the above theory and points
In theory getting huge gains would simply be a matter of putting massive impedance in the circuit. However, we also know that this will stall any kind of electrical pulse unless you up the potential to drive past it. Higher voltages would be required for this and or special circuits. Some how you would need a huge impedance that didn't actually resist voltage rises.. I don't know of anything offhand that would do that. The coils have an interesting function though, any delay in the voltage rise as they saturate the field is offset by the fact that the field collapses at the speed of light. There are many experiments we can do to test this and see how this can be utilized to get greater and greater gains in negative energy.

illchemist
01-05-2008, 08:28 PM
That is very good summary.

I do like the term negative energy because it is a good description of it's physical attributes. :) Cooling, negative resistance, etc.

From what I understand, a radiant event can be triggered by rapid discharging of a capacitor (like Tesla's spark gap experiments) or by the rapid collapsing of a magnetic field. Bearden calls the discharghing of a capacitor a 'time-collapsed' action but I don't know if I quite understand that. Is it time-collapsed because it is rapid in relation to the time needed to charge it?

Really, anytime the aether is stressed, it should release radiant energy?

gmeat
01-05-2008, 08:56 PM
Hi Guys, Nice analogy Ewhaz, that has shades of Bearden all over it lol.Well, I have done some experiments recently that involve water and creating a vortex in a 55 gallon drum that I thought would be interesting to me because it involves SPACE and TIME but I dont want to elaborate to much on this right now (unless someone pries it out of me lol).During my whacky experiment I noticed that if I took a magnets north pole and polarized a cup of magnetite and then let the cup float in water if i tried to attract the cup towards the south pole it would actually repell the cup away and so there it is,and I'm not sure what good that tidbit of info is good for but that is the way I make my SSG coors and why I was asking Peter Lindemann if Bill Muller polarized his coors on his generator/motor.


-Gary A

Ewhaz
01-05-2008, 09:40 PM
Bearden's pages have tons of information on the subject.

The Energy Pages (http://www.icehouse.net/john1/intro.html)

Time compressed. Baiscally thats how I understand it, it takes a moment longer to build the potential and then only a fraction of a second to drop it off again.


The analogy would be how a ramp dilutes gravity. Your able to push a weight up at the cost of time and distance over hight. Once you get it to the top you take the short way down and drop it off the edge instead. Slow up, quick drop down. In an EM field since they have the potential to travel at the speed of light, the only thing stopping it is counter EMF, or in other words any kind of opposing magnetic field it has to cut through to collapse.

This works in coils as well as capacitors. If you've ever shorted out a capacitor you know that it doesn't dump it's potential at the same rate it gained it, it dumps it as fast as it can. You'll notice in some high voltage capacitors they have a resistor across the terminals to drain it slowly, a direct short would create a spark as it dumped all at once.

Honestly I think Bearden and the others, while they mean well, are confusing people by going into detail with the particle physics and quantum field theory. That doesn't make it very praticle to learn for people who don't have time to learn the in's and out's of those fields of knowledge. I guess we'll have to wait for a while for the 'Idiots guide to Radiant energy'. Thankfully Peter is working hard on simplifying it and if you pay attention and read read read! Bedini has put his information out there for people to get to. I mean one of the patents in his book is on a Yahoo groups for cripes sakes. He's been very generous in that respect.

However, they are also in a business as well, so he's most likely retaining the improvements in his systems for his business interests. That only makes sense though as it takes money to run experiments (Something I'm becoming painfully aware of) otherwise he wouldn't be doing much of anything.

Schpankme
01-05-2008, 11:48 PM
I think Bearden and the others, while they mean well, are confusing people by going into detail with the particle physics and quantum field theory.

All,

Do not be confused with the talk of 4-symmetry. Everything you know and everything you well come to know, can be described in 3-Symmetry (3 space). Let 4-symmetry be used to describe a measurement, like Speed, Distance or Time.

- Schpankme

Ewhaz
01-06-2008, 07:08 AM
I need to make a note here that where I placed 'Ions' in my post a few posts back, it needs to be corrected to 'Electrons'.

geron
01-06-2008, 01:43 PM
I doubt very much, that we may sit and wait, while others, maybe mainstream science pick up the matters of radiant energy, develope it and/or present their theoretical results to us: they will not do it. They haven't it done while the last century and they are used to turn a blind eye on it.

This developing is OUR thing to do, since we, "the people", will have the profit out of it.
We may remember: Bedini, Newman and others worked already in the 70ies and 80ies on this matter: mainstream science did nothing with their results, but dismiss it.

Maybe its hard for us, since we're not used to do such scientific research working, but I think, we cannot spare this hard way: getting the magnifierer glass and look at what we find and analyze it prezisely, using all knowledge, that is at our hands.

We have a big struggle going on within politics, economics, science and the whole society, who is ruling the world? the big corporation-monopoles or the people.
The monopoles don't like science, that may be used by the people so they will become autonomous. Thus they don't like Tesla, radiant energy and the stuff, we are treating here: they fear, that we, the people, may get the grip to the power and the wealth, they are owning now.

If we want to be successful, we have to do our part of the work and take all our means: scientific potencial and analysis, research, engeneering, experimenting, seeking for substantial and resilient results, that will be for the profit of all.

Geron

illchemist
01-06-2008, 02:53 PM
Not to get too off track but the military understands more about this radiant energy or negative energy than anyone else and they are going to try to keep it very secret. History almost always shows that a new science will be used for weaponry before it is used for peaceful means.

Bearden and others talk a lot about these scalar interferometers used to influencew the flows of high/low pressure systems. EM weapons do not use conventional electricity. Everyone loves to quote Defense Secreatry William Cohen as proof of the technologies. It seems the secret is coming out and truth will always be known, sooner or later. It is up to us to show peaceful uses for this technology.

amigo
01-06-2008, 03:18 PM
History tells us that one way or the other any secret technology finally surfaces to the public sector, usually after a long period of time, once it becomes "obsoleteware" for the Military Industrial Complex and they move on to even more incredible technologies.

Sadly, in this case it might be little too late for our world when the RE comes out :)

illchemist
01-06-2008, 03:56 PM
Not too late... because as long as we stay aware and keep our minds open, our consciousness will keep evolving. That, clearly, is happening right here. I have a feeling that biological evolution follows that of consciousness. That is why evolution seems to have happened rather quickly on Earth. The Earth is a sturdy girl and even if for some reason, like the dinosaurs, humans became 'no more,' something would rapidly take it's place because that consciousness still exists. It is potential wanting to take form in this universe.

Has everyone seen 'What the Bleep do We Know?' There are physicists in that movie who do a good job at explaining to the layperson what modern-day physics sees. It is necessary to understand Bearden, IMO. It overlaps with everything the ancient monks knew through deep meditation.

elias
01-06-2008, 04:25 PM
This developing is OUR thing to do, since we, "the people", will have the profit out of it.

Geron

Geron,

I love your idea, but for a truly successful scientific research, a good team is required with some instructors such as Peter Lindemann.

This forum has been good for pointing out more of the "scientific" detail of these technologies unlike other forums, but if we want to understand Radiant Energy as Tesla understood it or even more, there should be an organized scientific research. Universities don't support these technologies, so we should use the Internet to base a good research ground for everyone.

It is almost about 9 months which I have got introduced to these types of technologies, and since then my life has changed. I am seeing so many like me on the Internet experimenting by their own. I think that this is great and also a great waste of resources. We should learn to operate more like a team, to achieve desirable conclusions.

We must learn from our experiments, and pass others. There aren't many people like Bedini out there which can do or will do everything by themselves (including the experimentation, and machining, etc).

I would suggest some of leading researchers accepting to be an instructor for an Internet based organized research, which has broken the research field unto little experiments. In this case anyone (even more than one) interested can choose an experiment and report the results. Almost like the SSG for example but a more advanced one.

I personally think that the reason we don't have free energy is us, not merely the government, we are not ready to get free from enslavement. But time is changing and I see the people changing too.

Elias

Schpankme
01-06-2008, 06:06 PM
I personally think that the reason we don't have free energy is us... - Elias


Elias,

What do you mean by FREE ENERGY ?

How much are you willing to pay for FREE ENERGY ?

--------------------------------------------

Now back to the subject matter:

o Why did Bedini abandon the Spark-Cap, which Tesla clearly perfected?

o Utilizing Radiant Energy requires defining and mapping of four essential areas 1) Production 2) Harvesting 3) Storage/Conversion 4) Safety Concerens

o My goal is to move away from charging batteries, and on to direct power consumption. Battery backup preferred.

- Schpankme

Sephiroth
01-06-2008, 06:20 PM
"Why did Bedini abandon the Spark-Cap, which Tesla clearly perfected?"

Spark gaps have advantages and disadvantages... the main disadvantage is that they soon wear themselves out unless you use special anodes and cathodes (silver perhaps?)... and making a good spark gap (say a rotory spark gap) is a project in itself!

back in Tesla's day transistors hadn't been invented yet. Now we can make solid state tesla coils using the 2N3055 transistor and simlar models instead of a spark gap... transistors have a much less maintainance and are more easily controlled...

though a spark gap can handle far greater energy!

elias
01-06-2008, 06:22 PM
Elias,

What do you mean by FREE ENERGY?

How much are you willing to pay for FREE ENERGY?



Well,

I think that most of the people are not willing to pay for free energy, and do not care at all, the same people which labeled Tesla a "Mad Scientist". Yes people are too ignorant to realize the importance of this. But people are changing and I have hope.

Well, I am here as a hobbyist and for experimenting, I am not intending to save the world and cannot save the world, the world must save itself. Learning and educating are my main goals in FREE ENERGY. This is what I am paying.

Elias

amigo
01-06-2008, 08:48 PM
@illchemsit, sure those scientists explain to the lay person what their modern-day quantum mumbo-jumbo theories mean but it does not make them true or correct. They just make people believe that what they have been told is true and factual, because they understood it. To me it's a play of words, nothing more.

@elias, but you are part of the World as well, so you have to save yourself as much as the rest of us have to save ourselves. It's just makes more sense that we save each other collectively than individually, strength is in numbers :)

I think the problem with this whole RE issue is that people continue to beat the dead horse over its head trying to bring it back up. "Perhaps if I hit it from another angle it'll get up..."

The dead horse is our current global electrical grid, all of our machinery and appliances. We have to leave them behind and create new ones that will utilize negative energy and implosion principles rather, than positive energy and explosion principles.

Right now many in the free energy community are obsessed with over-unity and achieving it using non-conventional (or conventional) means to drive existing infrastructure. I equal that to trying to drive a square peg through a round hole.

Didn't Tesla himself invent light bulbs that used RE (or negative potential) and were far more luminous, with a broader spectrum of frequencies closer to white light, than even today's "Edison off-spring" bulbs we use. And no heat produced either because they did not work on positive energy or depend on the current.

So, the free energy community needs a focus, devise a way of tapping negative potential reliably, cheaply and safely (perhaps that's already achieved we just don't know about it). Then work on revamping the entire infrastructure of devices, machinery, appliances, etc and replace those in stages, in some near foreseeable future, to utilize this new power source.

elias
01-07-2008, 09:39 AM
"Why did Bedini abandon the Spark-Cap, which Tesla clearly perfected?"

Spark gaps have advantages and disadvantages... the main disadvantage is that they soon wear themselves out unless you use special anodes and cathodes (silver perhaps?)... and making a good spark gap (say a rotory spark gap) is a project in itself!

back in Tesla's day transistors hadn't been invented yet. Now we can make solid state tesla coils using the 2N3055 transistor and simlar models instead of a spark gap... transistors have a much less maintainance and are more easily controlled...

though a spark gap can handle far greater energy!

This is my question too. Why we don't see any interest for the Gray tube anymore? It seems that there is sufficient information available for replicating it. (Thanks to Peter) I think that the energy output of those tubes were able to light up conventional light bulbs pretty well, as Gray demonstrated in public (Under water).

Sephiroth
01-07-2008, 01:38 PM
agreed... the gray motor appears to be the most powerful radiant energy device I have ever heard of apart from the MEG... I heard that it had a COP so high that he had to stick all these loads on it to stop it from frying itself! Not to mention the amount of torque it had... weren't they going to use it in the Fascination car?

There still is alot of interest in the conversion tube. I have spoken to a few people I met on youtube who have been attempting to replicate it though haven't seen any results...

In fact, Peter, if your reading this thread... I seem to remember a talk you did with another guy who found 2 of the original gray motors... weren't you making a replication as well?

I've been thinking of a few pulse motors based on what I've learnt from the SG that uses a spark gap and capacitors instead of a transistor. Timing is going to be tricky though...

but I want to perfect the SG before moving on!

Jetijs
01-07-2008, 02:52 PM
I tried to replicate Grays work about a year ago. My only info was from the PDF in panaceauniversity.org and Peters video. I used a simple oscillator for timing. I could adjust the frequency so that each pulse period was from 5uS to 100mS long. I could also adjust the duty cycle form 5-20%. This oscillator then switched an old russian TV tube on and off. The tube was rated 8kV and 20mA (If I remember correctly) and could switch at frequencies of few MHz. To get the high voltage I used a variac and a 12kV 30mA neon sign transformer and some high voltage diodes to get a DC. This DC then was flowing through some 16kV 0.2uF capacitors and then through the TV tube to the spark gap. My spark gap was very simple, just two lead screws through some pieces of wood, there was a perforated copper tube around one of the lead screws to capture the radiant energy. There also was a carbon piece, that acted as a resistor. See the attached image.
I could get those pulses as I wanted them, there was also a spark through the spark gap on each pulse. Occasionally there was some arcing in the TV tube itself ( guess It could not handle a very high voltage).
So when I got the sparks and pulses right (according to the PDF) I just attached a wire to the copper tube and the other end of this wire to one terminal of a small 12v light bulb. I grounded the remaining light bulb terminal. But the light bulb did not light up. I also tried to use a step down transformer for this - nothing.
That is my experience. But a bad result is also a result and I learned a lot :)

elias
01-07-2008, 05:18 PM
I tried to replicate Grays work about a year ago. My only info was from the PDF in panaceauniversity.org and Peters video. I used a simple oscillator for timing. I could adjust the frequency so that each pulse period was from 5uS to 100mS long. I could also adjust the duty cycle form 5-20%. This oscillator then switched an old russian TV tube on and off. The tube was rated 8kV and 20mA (If I remember correctly) and could switch at frequencies of few MHz. To get the high voltage I used a variac and a 12kV 30mA neon sign transformer and some high voltage diodes to get a DC. This DC then was flowing through some 16kV 0.2uF capacitors and then through the TV tube to the spark gap. My spark gap was very simple, just two lead screws through some pieces of wood, there was a perforated copper tube around one of the lead screws to capture the radiant energy. There also was a carbon piece, that acted as a resistor. See the attached image.
I could get those pulses as I wanted them, there was also a spark through the spark gap on each pulse. Occasionally there was some arcing in the TV tube itself ( guess It could not handle a very high voltage).
So when I got the sparks and pulses right (according to the PDF) I just attached a wire to the copper tube and the other end of this wire to one terminal of a small 12v light bulb. I grounded the remaining light bulb terminal. But the light bulb did not light up. I also tried to use a step down transformer for this - nothing.
That is my experience. But a bad result is also a result and I learned a lot :)

Jetijs,

I think that I see a small problem in your replication. Is the copper tube placed correctly? I thought that the copper tube must be placed over the spark gap, but in your replication it is placed before the spark gap. The spark Gap seems open to the environment. I have experimented with rapid discharging of capacitors of about 70 volts and high capacity (i.e 10000uF) and I can feel that when a spark is produced something is drawn from the environment (I hear it as a whistling sound) and a shock is produced which penetrates everything. This is the radiant energy we want to capture I suppose. I am a bit busy with my energizer, but I have planned to experiment with it soon. Eager to hear any other result you might share with us.

Have you seen Bedini's drawing:
http://www.icestuff.com/~energy21/edgray4.jpg

Edit:
I found this patent illustration of the tube, which seems misleading, don't you see the difference of Bedini's drawings and Gray's Patent?
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/os/EdGrayMotor/PM_PEM_MG/patents/4595975/US4595975_p3_fig2_bf3.gif
Thanks

Elias

elias
01-07-2008, 05:40 PM
Hi

I thought to share my understanding of the similarities between the gray tube and the Bedini energizer here. The difference and similarity lies between the difference and similarity between coils and capacitors. Capacitors cannot vary in voltage abruptly and coils cannot vary in current flow abruptly according to conventional physics. So if one attempts to do that, conventional physics has no explanation to it. In Bedini's energizer the current is cut off abruptly and is changed to zero, and in Ed Gray's systems the capacitors are cut off in voltage abruptly, which each of them yield radiant energy. Radiant energy in Bedini's systems flow over the wire, horizontally. But in Grays system Radiant energy flows perpendicular to the wire. These are my observations.

Elias

Jetijs
01-07-2008, 08:02 PM
Elias, When I tried replicate that Gray device, I did not have a lot of knowledge. I was not a member of any free energy forums or yahoo groups. No wonder I failed :) I agree that a discharge of a high capacity capacitor has the effects you mentioned, Gray used a high capacity capacitors in his setup, even a farad if I recall right. The capacity of my capacitor bank was only 1 uF. Also if I increased the capacity, the neon sign transformer couldn't hold up charging this capacity. When using more capacitors in parallel I noticed only 3-4 sparks per second. That means that the capacitors are not charging up fast enough. Now I know another mistake I made. Recently I studied the work of Hulda Clark on how to eliminate parasites in your body with electric impulses. It was found out, that every type of parasite has its own resonant frequency and if we pulse a weak electric current through our body at this frequency, all the parasites of that type will die. A frequency generator was used for this. The inventor found that we have over hundred type of parasites in our body and to zap all of them would require much time to go through all the frequencies, 3 minutes for each. But then the inventor tried to run this system form a battery and 555 timer set for about 30 kHz, the inventor could not find any traces of parasites of any type anymore. The difference was that this time instead of a frequency generator, a battery powered oscillator was used. This resulted in perfect pulsed DC or unidirectional pulses. And all the parasites were gone, regardless of their resonant frequency. If a frequency generator is used, there will always be a small negative voltage after each pulse, but not if a battery is used. Doesn't it remind you somehow of all the free energy devices using unidirectional electrical impulses? :D Everyone has heard many stories about healing effects of so called free energy devices, Aaron said he got a powerful boost form a Bedini solid state device, John Searl stated that he has healed many injuries when being near his generator. There's a connection :D I should have used batteries for testing, just as Gray did :)

For more info about killing parasites with electric impulses, read the following document:
http://www.drloyd.com/cure.pdf
Reading all that, it is no wonder why Tesla was living in a hotel rather than buying a house and why he was afraid form germs and parasites. Getting rid of parasites is the first step to perfect health and a perfect health is a must if you want to develop any spiritual abilities. Because parasites are one of two main causes for illness and if they are gone, the body can use its resources to develop the mind rather than to fight all the mess the parasites make. Maybe that is why tesla was such a brilliant visionary? :)

elias
01-07-2008, 09:07 PM
Everyone has heard many stories about healing effects of so called free energy devices, Aaron said he got a powerful boost form a Bedini solid state device, John Searl stated that he has healed many injuries when being near his generator. There's a connection :D I should have used batteries for testing, just as Gray did :)

For more info about killing parasites with electric impulses, read the following document:
http://www.drloyd.com/cure.pdf
Reading all that, it is no wonder why Tesla was living in a hotel rather than buying a house and why he was afraid form germs and parasites. Getting rid of parasites is the first step to perfect health and a perfect health is a must if you want to develop any spiritual abilities. Because parasites are one of two main causes for illness and if they are gone, the body can use its resources to develop the mind rather than to fight all the mess the parasites make. Maybe that is why tesla was such a brilliant visionary? :)


Hi Jetijs,

Very interesting, just to add that my left hand is a bit sensitive and as soon as I bring my hand close to the wire to the secondary battery it starts feeling the energy. It is a good sense. :)

I got rather interested in the parasite shooter! I'll read it, thanks.

Also to mention that I remember Tesla being gifted in imagination. He could simulate his machines in his mind, and construct them as imagined! He also had excellent eyesight which made the doctor get very surprised. :rolleyes:

Elias

Jetijs
01-07-2008, 09:54 PM
Also to mention that I remember Tesla being gifted in imagination. He could simulate his machines in his mind, and construct them as imagined! He also had excellent eyesight which made the doctor get very surprised. :rolleyes:

Elias
In other words, he had the solidworks 3D modeling software in his head :rofl:
Elias, if you are interested in this stuff, I recommend you the book "The joy of perfect health". It is short and easy to understand. It tells how we are poisoned daily and how it prevents our spiritual and mental development and what to do to avoid it. It matches everything that is said in the pdf I posted and also to the info Bryan (adam_ant) has told us about the sea salt and other things. You can buy this book here:
Bioresonant bookshop (http://www.bioresonant.com/bookshop.html)

Schpankme
01-08-2008, 05:23 AM
Spark gaps have advantages and disadvantages...

...Tesla coils using the 2N3055 transistor and similar models instead of a spark gap... transistors have a much less maintenance and are more easily controlled... though a spark gap can handle far greater energy!


Sephiroth,

My demon has three heads.

1) Creating adequate Pulse Train of =<1ms duration

2) Improving efficiency by increasing impedance for the load

3) Concentrate on solid state setup, with no moving

- Schpankme

Aaron
01-08-2008, 05:27 AM
Hi Elias,

I would add that the radiant flowing perpendicular only happens in that tube and not anywhere else. Once it has the ground to go towards (much lower potential), it would be going parallel to the wire again.

In the tube, when you have a large HV potential in a cap abruptly discharging to the lower potential rod triggered by whatever means...it is like taking a balloon that is filled up, pushing it against a wall (potential from HV rod pushing against a dead end wall, the balloon will burst out perpendicularly to the rod towards the grid.

That would be consistant with the analogy of comparing the radiant to how a gas moves. When the pressure builds up there, it blast out to the grids, since the grids are going through a coil, etc... then back to ground or a lower potential.



Radiant energy in Bedini's systems flow over the wire, horizontally. But in Grays system Radiant energy flows perpendicular to the wire. These are my observations.

Elias

elias
01-08-2008, 07:12 AM
Hi Elias,

I would add that the radiant flowing perpendicular only happens in that tube and not anywhere else. Once it has the ground to go towards (much lower potential), it would be going parallel to the wire again.

In the tube, when you have a large HV potential in a cap abruptly discharging to the lower potential rod triggered by whatever means...it is like taking a balloon that is filled up, pushing it against a wall (potential from HV rod pushing against a dead end wall, the balloon will burst out perpendicularly to the rod towards the grid.

That would be consistant with the analogy of comparing the radiant to how a gas moves. When the pressure builds up there, it blast out to the grids, since the grids are going through a coil, etc... then back to ground or a lower potential.

I agree! Bedini's and Gray's systems are duals as the capacitor and the coil are duals. Abrupt changes in coils and abrupt changes in capacitors. Interesting! :rolleyes:

Aaron
01-09-2008, 04:21 AM
It is also interesting to notice it is being switched on the negative. Just like the SG power coil and the inverted neg discharge on the cap discharger versions.

elias
01-09-2008, 09:30 AM
For more info about killing parasites with electric impulses, read the following document:
http://www.drloyd.com/cure.pdf
Reading all that, it is no wonder why Tesla was living in a hotel rather than buying a house and why he was afraid form germs and parasites. Getting rid of parasites is the first step to perfect health and a perfect health is a must if you want to develop any spiritual abilities. Because parasites are one of two main causes for illness and if they are gone, the body can use its resources to develop the mind rather than to fight all the mess the parasites make. Maybe that is why tesla was such a brilliant visionary? :)

Jetijs,

I read that book partially, and I'd like to draw some conclusions.

Here us a quote from tha book:
All illness comes from two causes,
PARASITES and POLLUTANTS.

Well, I think that this is very bold, because it is known that the human mind plays a very significant role in diseases. One example is the Bates Method (Imagination Blindness - A Site Dedicated to the Bates Method of Natural Vision Improvement (http://www.iblindness.org))

And for his treatment, I am not quite sure that the current kills the bacteria, In this case why don't our cells die? Something else is happening in my opinion. Some intelligent force is killing the bacteria, which knows what to kill. On each pulse a radiant event is created which is life force, and is released into the body. This is responsible for killing the bacteria I suppose.

Elias

Jetijs
01-09-2008, 01:20 PM
Elias, you are right about that we also need to purify our minds. That is just as important. There is a whole chapter in the book "the joy of perfect health" about importance of pure mind :)
About the current. All bacteria and parasites have their own resonant frequencies between 1 and 600 kHz, but the resonant frequency of a human is somewhere between 1-6 Mhz, that is why this low frequency current does not affect the cells, because the cells are part of your body :)

theremart
01-09-2008, 07:49 PM
Jetijs,

I read that book partially, and I'd like to draw some conclusions.

H
Elias

I have read the book as well, and I found some of the premises were good, as parasites, but the methods I found very shody for fixing them.

I belive in the Rife machine, as Rife created something that WORKED, the trouble is it is hard to verify with out the genious who built the awesome microscope.

John Bedini spent alot of time attempting to get that microscope working again, but I belive it when we see the critters dead, not this, well I feel better approach. I did not agree with here idea that water has memory as well, just too far out.

elias
01-10-2008, 09:19 PM
Elias, you are right about that we also need to purify our minds. That is just as important. There is a whole chapter in the book "the joy of perfect health" about importance of pure mind :)
About the current. All bacteria and parasites have their own resonant frequencies between 1 and 600 kHz, but the resonant frequency of a human is somewhere between 1-6 Mhz, that is why this low frequency current does not affect the cells, because the cells are part of your body :)

Jetijs,

Simple square-waves are not able to kill bacteria according to Bedini's notes.
Here is a quote from Bedini's website: (My Work on Rife (http://www.icehouse.net/john34/rife2.html))

John Crane was never given any of the circuits that I was developing at the time. They were potted in block modules and placed into the machines Crane sold out from underneath us. In the mean time, John Crane was selling phony square wave generators for $100.00 each, claiming that these would cure you. Well, they didn't cure anyone, and people died. When the FDA showed up, Crane ran as fast as he could. So after that, I locked the shop up and would never let Crane back in.

Don't get me wrong, John Crane had many wonderful things to offer the world, but he lost integrity because of the lack of money. When we were developing the new generators to test on cultures that Dr. Strecker was in charge of, John Crane was treating people in the front office against all the rules and protocols laid out by Dr. Strecker. He would sell the polarity research manuals over and over to different people, and these belonged to all of us working on this project. John Crane was an expert draftsman and could draw anything you gave him. To draw a microscope was child's play for him to do. Rife trained him well in all the sciences. I had everything that John Crane had in his basement to amuse myself with--all the drawings, pictures, lenses, steam sterilizers, Argon loops, Rife tubes, test equipment, and many other undisclosed, secret prototype machines that Rife and Crane were working on...all of the things the "Rife gurus" have never seen.

Regards,
Elias

Jetijs
01-11-2008, 06:24 PM
Elias, that could be true, since Hulda Clark only used a synchrometer to identify parasites in the body, and not a microscope. But my friend, who is a vegetarian and sensitive to this kind of things, wanted to try out the zapper, so I built one for him and he said, that he felt very light all the evening and next day after the zapping procedure. But that might be just a placebo. Nevertheless it is worth investigating :)
:cheers:
Thanks,
Jetijs

amigo
01-11-2008, 11:00 PM
What about work of Dr. Robert Beck, he made something of a 4Hz square wave generator as well, and claimed that it does all kinds of good things. Further more he had people who have been terminally ill and cured through his "Beck" protocol at his lectures.

There was also mention of the electroporation effect that happens in the cells when they are exposed to electric currents or specific voltages and frequencies. The "Beck" protocol consisted of drinking Colloidal Silver, using his Beck Zapper device, and applying time-variant pulsed kilogauss magnetic field over the lymph nodes in the body.

There are some videos of lectures with him and some of the people that used his "protocol" as well as it appears there were some clinical, but limited, studies in some hospital.

In any case Dr. Beck was not a M.D., this fellow built first EEGs and bunch of other devices back in the days so he was versed in the old electronics arts as well as in the new ones.

Another name that I like to associate with Dr. Beck is infamous Dr. Robert O. Becker, M.D. Now he is a real deal MD (if that means anything to you, it does not to me) but this Robert wrote some really good books, namely "The Body Electric" and "Cross Currents" talking about biochemlectrical processes that happen in the human body. It's an essential read for anyone dwelling in this area of research.

elias
01-12-2008, 08:52 AM
What about work of Dr. Robert Beck, he made something of a 4Hz square wave generator as well, and claimed that it does all kinds of good things. Further more he had people who have been terminally ill and cured through his "Beck" protocol at his lectures.

There was also mention of the electroporation effect that happens in the cells when they are exposed to electric currents or specific voltages and frequencies. The "Beck" protocol consisted of drinking Colloidal Silver, using his Beck Zapper device, and applying time-variant pulsed kilogauss magnetic field over the lymph nodes in the body.

There are some videos of lectures with him and some of the people that used his "protocol" as well as it appears there were some clinical, but limited, studies in some hospital.

In any case Dr. Beck was not a M.D., this fellow built first EEGs and bunch of other devices back in the days so he was versed in the old electronics arts as well as in the new ones.

Another name that I like to associate with Dr. Beck is infamous Dr. Robert O. Becker, M.D. Now he is a real deal MD (if that means anything to you, it does not to me) but this Robert wrote some really good books, namely "The Body Electric" and "Cross Currents" talking about biochemlectrical processes that happen in the human body. It's an essential read for anyone dwelling in this area of research.

Here is the link for silver medicine:
Everything Silver: Colloidal & Ionic | Ions & Charged Particles | Information | Studies | Research | News | Alternative Medicine (http://www.silvermedicine.org/)

Schpankme
01-12-2008, 04:02 PM
Kirk: The horse, bones - HOW IS THE HORSE??

Bones: He's dead, Jim!

Spock: It would seem logical, Captain, that we stop beating the horse, given it's current deceased state. It would also be redundant of me to mention the lack of relation between this particular deceased horse and "working of radiant energy", but my 1/2 human side forces me to state that fact.....

Kirk: Kirk to Enterprise - three to beam up!

- Schpankme