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gabriolaman
11-25-2007, 08:33 AM
i just read this

car's battery is designed to provide a very large amount of current for a short period of time. This surge of current is needed to turn the engine over during starting. Once the engine starts, the alternator provides all the power that the car needs, so a car battery may go through its entire life without ever being drained more than 20 percent of its total capacity. Used in this way, a car battery can last a number of years. To achieve a large amount of current, a car battery uses thin plates in order to increase its surface area.

A deep cycle battery is designed to provide a steady amount of current over a long period of time. A deep cycle battery can provide a surge when needed, but nothing like the surge a car battery can. A deep cycle battery is also designed to be deeply discharged over and over again (something that would ruin a car battery very quickly). To accomplish this, a deep cycle battery uses thicker plates.



then i thought well the reason the auto bat dies is because the type of charging it receives after discharge so then i thought well the sg charging is a cold charge so then the standard auto batts would last way longer running under the conditions a deep cycle battery seeing as there charged from the sg

anyone got any input on this?
:cheers:

gabriolaman
11-29-2007, 09:01 AM
well i did some reading about battery charging and found out a battery is dead when it reaches 10.50 volts and was wondering if thats what lvl i should discharge them to for conditioning them

also what wondering what voltage to take the battery of the sg

:cheers:

Jetijs
11-29-2007, 10:34 AM
You are right, it is not healthy to a battery to discharge it to 10.5V. I would suggest not getting lower than 12:00V or 11.40V.
As for charging voltage, I usually take mu batteries off the SSH when they have reached 13.5 or 14V. Small SSG's may not get the battery to voltage that high.

Sephiroth
11-29-2007, 01:27 PM
You are right, it is not healthy to a battery to discharge it to 10.5V. I would suggest not getting lower than 12:00V or 11.40V.
As for charging voltage, I usually take mu batteries off the SSH when they have reached 13.5 or 14V. Small SSG's may not get the battery to voltage that high.

why wouldn't a smaller sg charge the batteries that high? Wouldnt it just take longer? when i was conditioning my batteries (7.2 Ah) they peaked at 16.5V then gradually dropped to 15.9V/15.8V using only a single 950 turn coil.

Jetijs
11-29-2007, 03:37 PM
I did not say they wouldn't get as high as 14v, I said they might not :)

gabriolaman
11-29-2007, 06:22 PM
hehe thanks guyz i dunno how many turns my coil has but im getting 17 x12v spikes

gabriolaman
11-29-2007, 08:22 PM
i was also wondering about if im charging multiple batts is it safe to have a car batt and a smaller 7.2 ah gel cell at the same time

another note has anyone ever tried regulating the current for charging cause my solar panel outputs 18 volts @ 100ma seems to give good results vs 12 volt @ 175 draw

Aaron
11-30-2007, 03:58 AM
With draining a battery, I agree with Jetijs that you shouldn't bring a 12v battery down below 12 because at 12 it is dead and should be up to around 14-14.5 or so for full charge.

However, to my understanding, if you have a true deep cycle marine battery or something, it is safe to bring those down to 10-10.5 volts...at least safer than a car battery as they are build more for longer current pulls.

ren
11-30-2007, 09:58 AM
I believe that deep cycle batteries have thicker plates which is one of the benefits of this style battery. They allow for deeper discharge without creating too much damage. So saying, any battery that is discharged to 50% of its capacity will have a shorter life span than an identical battery that is discharged to 70% full.

gabriolaman
11-30-2007, 07:22 PM
but i thought that the plates were damaged by the type of charge they receive causing the plates to corrode and be coated by sulfation when low on voltage or electrolyte and the sg drives the sulfation off the plates and no corrosion on the plates during charge do the plates get damaged from the discharge process?

Sephiroth
11-30-2007, 09:19 PM
from what i understand sulphation is inevitable when the battery is being discharged... the sg undoes the sulphation whereas a conventional charger does not so the sulphation builds up over time with a conventional charger...

theremart
12-18-2007, 02:17 AM
I have a deep Cell battery and I have got it up to 12.60 V. ( it was declared dead at one time )

I am wondering, what should the level of my power supply be? I am currently supplying 12V at .38 Amps to this battey and it takes about 2 days to reach max charge when I run it down to 10.5 V.

From what I have read, perhaps 14 V is what I should be using ( as a car alternator) ? Just curious what other people feed there ssg with.

thanks

CaptainScat
12-18-2007, 06:09 PM
i charge most of my batteries with 20v on the input. seems to work great for ni-mh and ni-cad packs, lead acid batteries and the like. i have tried recharging lithium button cells with 5v and DO NOT recommend it, the battery swelled up to twice its normal thickness. i think i got lucky.
cell phone and ipod lithiums, i usually use 5v to charge them.
this is with a simple SG, one coil, nothing fancy.

theremart
12-18-2007, 07:37 PM
i charge most of my batteries with 20v on the input. seems to work great for ni-mh and ni-cad packs, lead acid batteries and the like. i have tried recharging lithium button cells with 5v and DO NOT recommend it, the battery swelled up to twice its normal thickness. i think i got lucky.
cell phone and ipod lithiums, i usually use 5v to charge them.
this is with a simple SG, one coil, nothing fancy.

I agree LITHIUMS with too much power BURN! I have seen videos that make me loose sleep at night ( lithium fires are nasty ). I stay away from lithiums period for recharing seen too many videos about them overheating and creating caustic fires.

Today I switched over to a 12V 2 amp power supply for an external USB hard drive. It jumped up to 12.80 from 12.60 and is still seems to be climbing. Which is much better.

Thanks for replying!:cheers:

splocal
12-23-2007, 05:18 AM
I have two 12V 7A/h Sealed lead acid batteries. I have been switching between these two for some time now, but I think I may have damaged one of them. The first one I bought I was also using for a water fuel cell and I brought the voltage down to 4.8 volts, way to low, however I did not know this at the time. So I bought another one about a month or so later and have now been swapping the two out only on my SG. The new battery (B-1) has been able to maintain above 12.v but the older bat (B-2) hasn't been able to get above 11.95V :wall: My first charge on B-2 brought it up to 12V after 17Hr. but it hasn't got back to that point. I have typically been charging between 1 1/2 hr to 2 h/rs. maybe this is not enough time? At what Voltage should I stop running the sg and switch my batts? 12V? Also I charged a batt that I got out of a recycle container that was around 11.3 V when I got it, it is now at 12.3V but the amp were only around 1.5A. It is a 7 A batt also says deep cycle charging. Is this normal, I thought if the volts reached 12 the amps should be directly proportional to the V. Meaning it would be at at least 7A.:wall: Help please!!!

theremart
12-23-2007, 12:52 PM
Check out this page..

Battery Reconditioning and Rebuilding Supplies for Automotive Lead/Acid Batteries (http://www.chinadepot.com/batripod.html)

scroll down to the bottom of the page and watch the videos. I don't know if their chemical works, but they have some great methods of testing batteries.

Also check out

Bedini_SG : Exploring Tesla type technologies (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_SG/)

Get both starter guide, but the 2nd is AWESOME! It was like all of my questions were answered, and could not stop reading and re-reading this.

Hope this helps.

BTW there is tremendous differences between types of batteries, I picked up 4 golf cart batteries and I am blown away by how much better they are. I am told the Fork lift batteries are even better, I am eyeing one they will let me have for $120.00 ( dead) I am soo tempted to get this 300 lb battery.

The addiction never ends :)

Mart

splocal
12-24-2007, 03:02 AM
BTW there is tremendous differences between types of batteries, I picked up 4 golf cart batteries and I am blown away by how much better they are. I am told the Fork lift batteries are even better, I am eyeing one they will let me have for $120.00 ( dead) I am soo tempted to get this 300 lb battery.

The addiction never ends :)

Mart

I wonder if I should try a different type of battery? I heard the gel cells are good to get your feet wet but that actual liquid batts charge even better! what would be the difference between the golf cart batts and the forklift ones? I thought that fork lifts ran on propane and the batts were just starter batts which arent supposed to be good for SG because you can only use 20% of the batt before needing to recharge.:thinking: thanx for the link ill check it out! :cheers:

theremart
12-24-2007, 03:43 PM
I wonder if I should try a different type of battery? I heard the gel cells are good to get your feet wet but that actual liquid batts charge even better! what would be the difference between the golf cart batts and the forklift ones? I thought that fork lifts ran on propane and the batts were just starter batts which arent supposed to be good for SG because you can only use 20% of the batt before needing to recharge.:thinking: thanx for the link ill check it out! :cheers:

You will probably see much great results with a lead acid battery. Fork lifts can run on either propane or electricity.

I worked on nicad batteries to start, and found that their real problem is one of the nicads often get a short in them, thus depleating the full amount from the battery.

Happy recharging!

Mart:sun:

splocal
12-27-2007, 08:28 PM
Ok I finally got the sealed lead acid gell cell to go above 12V, used my nicad drill battery to just keep charging my gell cell. when the nicad got low put it back on the charger and then back to the SG, it took awhile but she is back up so maybe I can start swapping my two gell cells again.

theremart
12-27-2007, 09:19 PM
Ok I finally got the sealed lead acid gell cell to go above 12V, used my nicad drill battery to just keep charging my gell cell. when the nicad got low put it back on the charger and then back to the SG, it took awhile but she is back up so maybe I can start swapping my two gell cells again.

Congrates!. and good thinking!

Aaron
12-28-2007, 03:23 AM
Get "The Battery Bible" pdf. You probably will never want that much info on batteries, but John and Peter used it quite a bit in the past.

Search for it in google.

theremart
12-28-2007, 06:33 PM
Get "The Battery Bible" pdf. You probably will never want that much info on batteries, but John and Peter used it quite a bit in the past.

Search for it in google.

I agree Adam, it is HUGE, old, but wonderful info. The link is here..

-Read the battery bible, and other battery related files.

Directory:Bedini SG:Battery Characteristics - PESWiki (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bedini_SG:Battery_Characteristics)

splocal
12-28-2007, 09:04 PM
:thanks: This is great information!!!! :cheers: have you or any one else used a psu from a computer to run the SG? I know it kinda defeats the purpose but could come in handy some times, I tried once but burnt my transistor out so I havent tried again.

CaptainScat
12-29-2007, 02:43 AM
i have used a psu from a pc on my SG, i have 5v and 12v outputs on it. it behaves strangely though, so i switched to a 20V 70 watt power brick from an old dell laptop. it seems to work much better.

theremart
12-29-2007, 02:54 PM
This article tells how to do it.

How to Convert a Computer ATX Power Supply to a Lab Power Supply - wikiHow (http://www.wikihow.com/Convert-a-Computer-ATX-Power-Supply-to-a-Lab-Power-Supply)

Sirhoax and another video show the results of thier working one for their hyrdrogen generator.


I tried it once with a poor supply, but I switched to using laptop power supplies
that have over 20 V of DC voltage to my supply but only

Also a good friend shipped me his old tube power supply, so I am running it threw and inverter from my battery to the other set of batteries. Pulls about .50 amps. I am swapping between two golf cart batteries right now to condition them. I have been letting this run and swapping about ever 12 hours.

I think I will switch over to using a capacitor with a trysistor to dump the load
because this would be more efficient in my estimation.

terence123
01-04-2008, 08:06 AM
my (short) experience so far:

I have an electric razor, with a (guess) NiM batt, 1.5V. It would barely shave for 1 time on one charge (its about 5 years old). I have a solid state bedini charger. I use different capacitors for different batteries.
On this 1.5V battery, i used 4.7uF. I have already shaved twice, and it is still running good (this is only after a first time on the charger!

Recently my truck battery went bad. 12V 70Ah. It was 12.15V, empty, car couldn't start. I charged it with a normal charger, but the next day after use, car couldn't start. Now it is already 7days under SS charger. Voltage is climbing about 0.05 to 0.1 volt a day. (beginning was faster). Now at 13.0V. I will keep it there until 14V is reached. For this I use a 33uF capacitor. I tune the 555timer to maximum voltage (on oscilloscope). Top voltage over C reaches around 100V. Looks like the battery is coming back from the dead..

can't wait for trying old lithium batteries to recharge. Will need fire proof container to do this, as i read before here.

elias
01-04-2008, 03:29 PM
Hello friends,

I found a 12V, 40AH battery left lonely for so much time, and all of its water was gone. I don't know if I add tap water to it what will happen? I have read that tap water is not so good for batteries. Can anyone help me with this?

Elias

Jetijs
01-04-2008, 04:28 PM
You should use distilled water for this purpose :)

theremart
01-07-2008, 06:10 PM
Well, I have had 2 set of of SSG going for about 3 days now, and they are doing the normal up and down climbing of charging. For the input I have one at 12 V, and the other at 18 V. On the charging batterries I have them setup as 24 V.

Today I have seen my first battery ( brought back from the dead) to reach 13 V it then went back down to 12.98 V but was nice to see at last a battery reach that voltage.

I think this is the way to initially charge the batteries, just leave them on the charger till they reach 13.5 to 14 V. ( always checking the fluid levels )

The Golf cart batterries on the other hand have been terribly slow about climbing up in voltage. One set of two ( 12 V) is up to 12.09 the other set is up to 12.22. I am only feeding in about .32 amp to the batteries, so this may be the deal, since they have much more lead in the plates it may mean that they need more umph to get them going.

All seems to be on track, as everyone says, be prepared for a 3 -4 month time to condition your batteries for the first time.

geron
01-11-2008, 07:59 PM
Hello,

if it comes to batteries with the SG, it seems mostly to deal with lead-acid batteries.
What about NiCd / NiMh and others?
Are there experiences too relating other types of batteries with the SG, while we have a look at the "healing" / reconditioning?

And are there characteristic curves available on the behavior of NiCh or lead batteries?
I would like to know the state of charging related to the voltage: thus maybe I have 13V at the (12V) battery and now know: that means about 50% of capacity.

thanx for hints.

Geron

elias
01-13-2008, 07:40 AM
You should use distilled water for this purpose :)

Thanks,

I used distilled water, and it seems that the battery is sulfated pretty much. It has high impedance I suppose, because it is unable to absorb the spikes very much. The meter reads about 1mA going to it. The voltage of it is rising slowly, which was 1.5 volts at first, but now it is at 7 volts. Has anybody got any experience like this? I hope that the charging process brings down the impedance of the battery.

Sephiroth
01-13-2008, 08:14 AM
I got 5 "dead" batteries the other week and have been trying to recover them on the SSG

2 of them were at 0.5v. I left one on the SSG for two days and the voltage got to about 7 or 8 (can't remember off the top of my head) and then started charging REALLY slow (it would have taken about 2 weeks for it to reach 13V) so I have left those 2 batteries for now. :angel:

the other 3 were between 10 and 12.7 volts resting though the guys I got them off say they wouldn't power a wheelchair anymore.

I put one on the SSG by itself (a 31ah gel cell) and within 2 days it was up to 14.5 vols.

the other two (a 33ah and a 38ah sealed lead acid batteries) I connected in parrelel (with seperate diodes)... 1 was back up to 14.8 volts within 3 days so I took it off and let the SSG charge the last battery by itself which took another day to get back up.

All the batteries were cold boiling for several hours before I stopped charging.

This morning I have hooked the gel cell up as my primary and stuck the other two charging along with 2 of my old (well conditioned) 7.2ah batteries I've hooked together to make a 14.4ah battery and the gel cell seems to be holding it's charge pretty well (even with just a single charge!)

It has dropped 100mv in just under 8 hours (approx 10mv every hour) and is currently at 12.78v. Unfortunatly I don't have a working dc ammeter to see what the current draw is but judging from the voltage drop it would be about 550ma if the battery was in perfect condition (ie. a 31ah battery). Last time I checked this motors current draw it was 950ma (though it wouldn't suprise me if was closer to half an amp now... made a few improvements to the rotor)

So it looks like the Gel Cell is alive and kicking :dance: ! Have to wait and see how the lead acids do! Good luck with yours! :thumbsup:

theremart
01-13-2008, 05:52 PM
I looked at this chart, and it was an eye opener for me. It showed me to get real results of charging old batteries you are talking days of charging to get to be super charged batteries.

from ->
Directory:Bedini SG:Replications:Gerhard Flemming - PESWiki (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bedini_SG:Replications:Gerhard_Flemming)

338

elias
01-14-2008, 09:08 PM
Has anyone tried charging laptop batteries, with the Bedini charger? I have decided to do this test. It is interesting to see how a much longer a laptop functions with a Bedini charged cell.

gabriolaman
01-16-2008, 03:02 AM
some laptop batts have protection and if hit with a high voltage may fry the batt but im not to sure radiant is wierd

geron
01-17-2008, 10:38 PM
Since I missed the answer until now, my question again for using / charging NiCd / NiMh batteries and their "healing"or if this only works with lead batteries.

thanx for replying

geron

ren
01-18-2008, 09:03 AM
Elias be careful charging Li-ion batteries. I suggest to anyone thinking of charging anything but a lead acid battery to google around and learn a little of the chemical processes involved. If you still want to go ahead then build a little shield out of wood or steel to cover the battery while it charges. I tried some Nickel metal Hydrides (Ni-MH) and they heated up really fast and have never been the same since. I stuck to gel and wet acids since.


One interesting thing I did learn about Nicads is this however. You can fast charge certain types at a 1 to 1 ratio, perhaps this is how the cigar box Tesla switch can work as I believe it used NiCads.

elias
01-25-2008, 10:06 PM
Thought to share this page about batteries:
Table of Contents for Batteries in a Portable World (http://www.buchmann.ca/toc.asp)

gabriolaman
01-29-2008, 08:19 PM
i got this dead dead battery and i have no idea what state its in im trying to revive its lead acid car battery when i put it on my sg it instantly shot to about 15v no its slowly decreasing its at 11.73 and falling im wondering if anyone else who has tryed to fix a dead bat has any info i could eat up im just worried some a the cells in the battery could be shot and i might over charge and have it blow up in my face :eek:


thanks for any help:cheers:

elias
01-29-2008, 08:56 PM
Hi

I have started recovering a dead battery (55Ah 12volt cell) for about 5 days and this is what I found:

At first it was at about 6 volts, and had an impedance of about 200 ohms, pretty dead. As I attached it to my SSG it went up to 15 volts and came down as the impedance was changing. It has gone down to 9.5 volts, when charging at the present moment. It has a sitting voltage of about 8.25 volts, with an internal impedance of about 2 ohms now. This battery is coming alive I suppose, and I'll leave it there until it comes up to 13-14 volts. I would love to see this dead battery recover. I have also noticed that the impedance does not steadily decrease, It increases sometimes momentarily and then decreases again, which is noticeable with the speed of the SSG. I think that the voltage rises stage by stage as a barrier of impedance is lifted, and the battery capacity goes up.

A comment from Bedini: "You noticed that the battery voltage went up to 25 volts and then came down. This means that the battery impedance is changing and the battery is taking the charge ... Then the voltage of the battery rises all of a sudden and the battery is charged".

Don't be afraid, just cover your batteries with something to avoid spitting the acid all over the room in a case of a blast and watch them come alive.

Elias

Ewhaz
02-02-2008, 06:33 AM
Yea I noticed the voltage jump the other day on my system. I stopped charging it after 12 hours of running because I don't like to leave it while I'm not around to watch it. When I hooked it back up the next day, I tested it within the first few minuets and watched as the voltage started to climb from like 13.4v to over 15. I wasn't sure what to do so I disconnected it and assumed the battery was charged.

However, I'm using a system with the capacitive discharge charger and it is very very slow charging. It's taking over 12 hours for the system to charge a battery off another. I hope this begins to improve with the system getting conditioned.

theremart
02-03-2008, 02:52 AM
I picked a battery up that at .05 V when I got it ( car battery found by the road about last week )

I kept it on the SSG for over 5 days. Now it goes up to over 14V on charge and has a resting voltage of 12.3 V. It still needs more work, but still impressive how dead batteries find new life.

I have found keeping the battery on the SSG for days is the main way of getting them back into shape. I have brought 3 others up to 13V when charging, and normally about 12.6 when resting.

Today I have nearly completed putting empty windmill coils on the ssg. I still need to work out the bugs, but getting there... getting there.

Mart :cool:



Hi

I have started recovering a dead battery (55Ah 12volt cell) for about 5 days and this is what I found:

At first it was at about 6 volts, and had an impedance of about 200 ohms, pretty dead. As I attached it to my SSG it went up to 15 volts and came down as the impedance was changing. It has gone down to 9.5 volts, when charging at the present moment. It has a sitting voltage of about 8.25 volts, with an internal impedance of about 2 ohms now. This battery is coming alive I suppose, and I'll leave it there until it comes up to 13-14 volts. I would love to see this dead battery recover. I have also noticed that the impedance does not steadily decrease, It increases sometimes momentarily and then decreases again, which is noticeable with the speed of the SSG. I think that the voltage rises stage by stage as a barrier of impedance is lifted, and the battery capacity goes up.

A comment from Bedini: "You noticed that the battery voltage went up to 25 volts and then came down. This means that the battery impedance is changing and the battery is taking the charge ... Then the voltage of the battery rises all of a sudden and the battery is charged".

Don't be afraid, just cover your batteries with something to avoid spitting the acid all over the room in a case of a blast and watch them come alive.

Elias

terence123
02-03-2008, 02:25 PM
Hi,

I have a rechargeable shaver. Has 1 1.5V metal hybride battery in there.

When it was new, I could shave at least 15 times with it before a charge was needed. It is now about 3 years old and I could shave not even 1 full time with it when it was fully charged. I put it on my solid state bedini charger. Battery charged at 2.3Volts. Now, after the first charge (couple hours), I shaved 3 times already and it still works!
I cut the plug from my original shave charger and used it to hook up the ssc.
So now i do not have to open the casing for the next charge. The battery did not heat up during the charge....

elias
02-03-2008, 02:49 PM
I picked a battery up that at .05 V when I got it ( car battery found by the road about last week )

I kept it on the SSG for over 5 days. Now it goes up to over 14V on charge and has a resting voltage of 12.3 V. It still needs more work, but still impressive how dead batteries find new life.

I have found keeping the battery on the SSG for days is the main way of getting them back into shape. I have brought 3 others up to 13V when charging, and normally about 12.6 when resting.

Today I have nearly completed putting empty windmill coils on the ssg. I still need to work out the bugs, but getting there... getting there.

Mart :cool:

Very Impressive,

My Battery is on the SSG for about more than a week now, but it has a resting voltage of 8 volts and it goes upto 9volts when the SSG is connected. I don't know if this has hope or not. Although it seems that the impedance of the battery is dropping over time.

Elias