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Kevin
11-04-2007, 06:08 AM
I spent four hours today conducting an experiment on the Insulating Additive for paints..you can read about the additive here (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1280-nasa-ceramic-paint-additive-insulating-paint-additive.html).

The experiment was conducted in a room that had a constant ambient temperature of 75 degrees.

A focused (3" x 5") heat source (light) was used that remained constant at 220 degrees.

Material tested:

(P1) 3/8" thick untreated plywood 10" x 10" square

(P2) 3/8" thick untreated plywood 10" x 10" square covered on one side with one coat of paint containing the Insulating Additive


(M1) 24 gauge galvanized steel 12" x 12" square

(M2) 24 gauge galvanized steel 12" x 12" square covered on one side with one coat of paint containing the Insulating Additive

Test Results:

Plywood

At the 45 minutes mark of the heat source being placed 10 inches from P1 the temperature was taken 1/16th of an inch from the surface exposed to the heat source, and 1/16th of an inch from the back side of the plywood (the heat source was on the other side of the wood).

Temperature on heat source side of P1---108 degrees
Temperature on back side of P1-----------97 degrees

Temperature on heat source side of P2---108 degrees
Temperature on back side of P2-----------90 degrees


Galvanized Steel

The only variation in testing the steel vs. the wood was that the heat source was place 12 inches away instead of 10 inches.


Temperature on heat source side of M1---100 degrees
Temperature on back side of M1-----------90 degrees

Temperature on heat source side of M2---100 degrees
Temperature on back side of M2-----------80 degrees


I did several shorter tests of 5 and 10 minutes, prior to the 45 minute tests. In each case it was obvious that the paint additive reduced the temperature significantly.

It is unknown to me what this translates to in terms of heating and cooling savings, however, it is obviously significant when you think of how much longer an air conditioner must run in a house to keep the temperature down to 80 degrees instead of 90 degrees.

I have not done any testing using a cold source (vs. a heat source), but it is reasonable to expect similar results.

:thumbsup:

Jetijs
11-04-2007, 12:30 PM
Have you tried several layers of paint and how that affects the temperature?
Great test BTW :) :thumbsup:

adam ant
11-04-2007, 01:35 PM
Jetijs beat me to the question... i would like to know that too.


denis lee supports a ceramic paint that does the same thing. he used 4 coats (two part paint) on a raw egg. he then used a propane torch and directed the flame at the egg for 3 minutes(the flame wasnt touvhing, but only slightly off) after 3 minutes, denis turned off the torch, grabbed the egg barehanded, and then cracked it to reveal the egg was still uncooked.


i asked him if this paint could be used on exhaust manifolds and catalytic converters to reduce external heat... he said it wouldnt tstand that high temperature long enough. but i bet if the same ceramic ingedients were added to rino liner or non-skid type coatings it could be used on airport tarmacs, exhaust systems and other things.

Peter Lindemann
11-04-2007, 03:57 PM
I spent four hours today conducting an experiment on the Insulating Additive for paints..you can read about the additive here (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1280-nasa-ceramic-paint-additive-insulating-paint-additive.html).

The experiment was conducted in a room that had a constant ambient temperature of 75 degrees.

A focused (3" x 5") heat source (light) was used that remained constant at 220 degrees.

Material tested:

(P1) 3/8" thick untreated plywood 10" x 10" square

(P2) 3/8" thick untreated plywood 10" x 10" square covered on one side with one coat of paint containing the Insulating Additive


(M1) 24 gauge galvanized steel 12" x 12" square

(M2) 24 gauge galvanized steel 12" x 12" square covered on one side with one coat of paint containing the Insulating Additive

Test Results:

Plywood

At the 45 minutes mark of the heat source being placed 10 inches from P1 the temperature was taken 1/16th of an inch from the surface exposed to the heat source, and 1/16th of an inch from the back side of the plywood (the heat source was on the other side of the wood).

Temperature on heat source side of P1---108 degrees
Temperature on back side of P1-----------97 degrees

Temperature on heat source side of P2---108 degrees
Temperature on back side of P2-----------90 degrees


Galvanized Steel

The only variation in testing the steel vs. the wood was that the heat source was place 12 inches away instead of 10 inches.


Temperature on heat source side of M1---100 degrees
Temperature on back side of M1-----------90 degrees

Temperature on heat source side of M2---100 degrees
Temperature on back side of M2-----------80 degrees


I did several shorter tests of 5 and 10 minutes, prior to the 45 minute tests. In each case it was obvious that the paint additive reduced the temperature significantly.

It is unknown to me what this translates to in terms of heating and cooling savings, however, it is obviously significant when you think of how much longer an air conditioner must run in a house to keep the temperature down to 80 degrees instead of 90 degrees.

I have not done any testing using a cold source (vs. a heat source), but it is reasonable to expect similar results.

:thumbsup:

Kevin,

Great tests.:cheers:

But I'm still a little confused. You applied the insulating paint to "one side" of the plywood and the galvanized steel. When you applied the heat source for the tests, was the heat applied to the side WITH the insulating paint on it or was the heat applied to the side WITHOUT the insulating paint on it?

The purpose of the paint is to BLOCK RADIANT HEAT from penetrating the surface and heating the underlying material. It does this best when the paint is on the side the heat is coming from. For instance, in the summer to keep the house cooler, the paint should be applied to the OUTSIDE of the house, especially on the south and west facing walls. Conversely, to stay warmer in the winter, all of the INSIDE walls of the house should be painted to keep heat in.

Peter

Kevin
11-06-2007, 06:35 AM
Jetijs- I only did one coat on one side. It would probably work much better (especially on the wood) with more coats. However, I wanted to test a worst-case scenario.

Also, to be more rigorous in my testing, I should have done 3 pieces of each material.

One unpainted
One painted without insulating additive
One painted with insulating additive

Adam-interesting test on the egg. :) I might get brave and try that outside...just in case. :rofl: :rofl:

Peter-you asked a question that I was waiting for as soon as I re-read my post.

Yes, the insulating paint was applied to one side only.

On the wood, I ran the test both ways....paint toward heat source and on back side of the heat source. It did not make a difference over the longer tests. Although on the shorter tests it was slightly better with the paint toward the heat source.

Using multiple coats may very well make a big difference in this arena.

(Oh, another factor...the paint was applied with a sprayer, so it was most assuredly a lighter coat of paint than if it had been applied with a brush or roller)

On the metal I ran the full 45 minutes with the paint toward the heat source AND another full 45 minutes with the paint on the back side of the heat source.

It worked SIGNIFICANTLY better with the paint on the backside of the heat source.

This is counterintuitive until I share a couple of other factors.

The unpainted galvanized steel is very bright and probably was reflecting some of the heat.

The paint I used is a dark "Barn red" that was not nearly as reflective.

Conclusion-even with the thin single layer of insulating paint, the results were significant.

I still have the 4 pieces of material. Sometime in the next month I will add another two coats to them. I will also add 2 more pieces of material to the test and paint them with the same paint only WITHOUT the insulating additive.

Then I will conduct the tests again and post the results.

:thumbsup:

Aaron
11-06-2007, 07:47 AM
Kevin,

In regards to metal reflecting heat,

With aluminum used in insulating or more accurately reflecting applications to keep heat down inside...it is considered to have high reflectivity and low emissivity...so little passes through.

I know you used steel but I would imagine the idea is about the same here. But the metal of course would heat up and conduct heat through. What about putting 2 coats on each side of the metal..would love to see that.

Kevin
06-23-2008, 11:36 PM
I have a 1000 sq foot "Rec room". The ceiling is 3/8" plywood. There is no insulation between the plywood ceiling and the attic.

(The room was originally built as a carport and above the ceiling it shares the attic with the rest of the house)

This summer the room has been hitting the 90's, even with the 3 AC vents I installed.

Two of the walls are brick (one common to the house) and the other two walls cement board on the outside and paneled on the inside. They are well insulated.

You could literally feel the heat radiating into the room from the ceiling.

A couple of weeks ago we put two coats of paint with the HY-TECH ceramic beads on the ceiling.

Wow! :) We could tell an immediate difference. The ceiling is no longer radiating heat like it used to, and the room is now staying almost as cool as the rest of the house, even when it is 95 out and 120+ in the attic!

To make it perfect I reckon I would have to put in a third attic fan and/or put some insulation above the ceiling.

But the improvement from 4 hours of painting is mind boggling! :dance:

:peaceflag:

future pather
06-24-2008, 01:20 AM
Kevin,

That's great, I have a similar situation living on the third story of my building. It's the only floor that needs central AC.

The attic insulation is I think called batting, kind of like large flexible roof tiles piled all crazy everywhere. It doesn't seem fit for walking on . . do you install an attic fan from the outside or the inside? I'd thought maybe of using a solar attic fan. . .before I saw this paint.

I haven't painted yet (I have the paint though) bc I wanted to get reading both hot and cold of the "before" done by a local energy conservation service first to have a record. Good reminder, I should call them now to do my hot reading.

Btw what do you use to read your temps?

Jessica

rosco1
06-29-2008, 03:36 AM
Interesting thread.

A while back I looked into heat reflective paint, with the view to combating extreme radiant heat entering a home through a large tin roof, the home I'm referring to is located in the Philippines. As you can imagine, this type of environment would certainly push most products to the limits.

I know precisely what Kevin means about this kind of heat, it's crazy heat.

I'd heard through the grapevine that all the schools in Queensland, Australia, have the roofs painted with a special coating to reflect a large percentage of this type of heat.

I made a bunch of enquiries and found this product to be the culprit:
Heat Reflective Paint, Reflective Roof Paint, Reflective Roof Coating, Sydney NSW Australia (http://www.solar-cool.com.au/heat-reflective-paint.html)

As you can see by the figures mentioned below, this is an area of interest.

I made further enquiries and found that customers all verified these figures as well, which is encouraging.

Quote" The underside of the uncoated roof recorded a massive 55.8C. The underside of the roofing area coated with Insultec reflective paint measured 38C. A staggering difference of 17.8C " Unquote.

This product is apparently available in most countries now.

Also, here's another site I found useful when looking at ventilation methods:
Consumer & Industrial Turbine Ventilation, Roof Ventilation, Roof Ventilators, Whirlybirds - CSR Edmonds (http://edmonds.com.au/)

Of particular interest is the Maestro solar ventilator. I spoke with the man at the helm and he claims the solar powered unit performs just as well as the 12 volt model, which in itself is a very cheap unit to run. The volumes of air that these things can move is pretty impressive.

Of course suitable eaves vents would need to be used as well.

Aaron
06-29-2008, 03:58 AM
This is the one I used: Ceramic Paint Additive (http://interneka.com/affiliate/AIDLink.php?BID=9255&AID=31667)
This company, Hytech is the one that pioneered the ceramic paint additive technology and to this day, they still have the best results of any on the market.

I made vids and more on my project when I painted virtually every square inch of the inside of my house with it...in addition to at a later time, I put radiant foil barrier on top of the insulation in my attic. I'll post these sometime in youtube so people can see how easy it is to use the paint additive and the foil barriers.

Aaron
06-29-2008, 09:47 PM
My ceiling has 2 coats of the hytech Ceramic Paint Additive (http://interneka.com/affiliate/AIDLink.php?BID=9255&AID=31667) as do my walls. On top of my sheetrock celing, there is about 1" of blown cellulose that is ancient...on top of that is about 4-5" of the pink fiberglass rolled insulation..kinda squashed and on top of that is about 6-7" of yellow fiberglass insulation...so that is about 1 foot of insulation on top of the ceiling. On top of that insulation is 2 ply perforated radiant barrier (aluminum).

Right now, outside the temp is 100 on my thermometer in the shade. I verified that with my IR thermometer...siding on house is 125...cement right outside is 140F. I don't feel like climbinb on my roof.. but inside my attic it is 125F.

My ceiling temp without any cooling system...with ceramic paint, insulation on top of ceiling with radiant barrier...the temp is only 79F. That is 46F cooler than the attic temp.