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Gpilot
09-28-2012, 02:06 PM
Hello, i am new to this forum. I have built a bedini ssg energizer, but i cant get it to work. I am using a 22.5 inch aluminium bicicle rim with 16 ceramic magnets on it. I have a bifoiler coil i wound myself with 900 turns of #20 and #23 copper magnetic wire. I have built the circuit, but the diodes i used are both the same. I think they are 1n4001, or 1n4007, im not sure which. Also, my resistor is either 460 or 470 ohms. I will upload some pictures soon, as a am using an ipad at the moment. The neon bulb i am usin is also a little larger than what i have seen on others projects. I have the wheel mounted horizontal, so i can easily add more coils without building a complex frame. I amusing 2 12v motorcycle batteries, i think 12ah. I am not getting any voltage at all, and the wheel will eventually stop spinning. My coil isnt perfectly wound, but that shouldnt be the problem. I think the problem is in my circuit. Do the diodes have to both be different? And does the resistor need to be larger or smaller? I am using some aligator clips right now from the battery to the circuit and the coils. I will solder them when i know the parts i have are correct. The pictures i have will help you all help me, so i will post them asap. Please, any tips will be greatly appreciated!

Jetijs
09-28-2012, 02:27 PM
Lower the base resistance to half of you current setting. Should help. But can't tell for sure without seeing the circuit what you are using and the setup pictures.

wrtner
09-28-2012, 02:31 PM
I have built a bedini ssg energizer

If you use the search facility on the blue strip at the top of
the page, you will find several threads talking about it.
For instance:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/12239-my-scooter-wheel-energizer-3.html

There are far too many identical threads here.

citfta
09-28-2012, 05:05 PM
Gpilot,

Your links take you to a Gmail account. I don't have Gmail so I can't see your pictures. Go to the thread wrtner gave you a link to and read all of it. All your questions will be answered there as well as suggestions for how to trouble shoot what is wrong.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Guruji
09-28-2012, 07:12 PM
Hi JetiJs I did your modified bedini multicoiler circuit and it works great.
Thanks for sharing.

Bedinijetijs multicoiler - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsyle0w3hJI)

Gpilot
09-28-2012, 07:23 PM
I read the post mentioned and it helped, but if someone is able to look at the pictures i posted links for and tell me if they can see a visable reason why my circuit is not functioning. This is a great forum with many brilliant minds, thank you all for the tips.

truesearch
09-28-2012, 07:32 PM
@Gpilot:

None of us can see the photos you linked to because they apparently tied into your email account of GMail.

You might try COMPLETELY logging out of your GMail account and then try one of the links ~ it simply says "We’re sorry, but your Gmail account is temporarily unavailable. We apologize for the inconvenience and suggest trying again in a few minutes." and offers to let me log into the acount.

As a result, we can't see what your pictures are showing at all.

truesearch

Gpilot
09-28-2012, 08:34 PM
From the pictures i have seen of other ssg's, my diodes look too small, and also the resistor. By cutting the resistance in half, am i using a larger resistor?

citfta
09-28-2012, 08:53 PM
I am not really interested in looking at Facebook pictures of your friends. Here is a link that will take you step by step through checking out your SSG to see why it doesn't work. This size of your diodes and resistors has nothing to do with the value of them. Your diodes are fine just like they are. You really need a pot that can be adjusted to get the SSG working correctly. The value of resistor Jetijs suggested will work to at least get you running if you don't have a pot.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/12209-bedini-measurements.html#post207147

Carroll

Gpilot
09-29-2012, 02:19 PM
Here is my circuit for my ssg. Notvsure if this is where the problem is.

Gpilot
09-29-2012, 02:22 PM
Here is the way everything is currently hooked up. This could be where my problem is.

Gpilot
09-29-2012, 02:25 PM
Here is the aluminium rim with the 16 ceramic magnets. It is mounted with a small steel bracket . The grese has been removed from the bearings and oil/lube added.

Gpilot
09-29-2012, 02:31 PM
Here is the bifoiler coil i wound. It has 900 turns of both #18 and #23 copper magnet wire run somewhat in parallel. I wrapped it in electrical tape to hold it together snuggly.

Gpilot
09-29-2012, 02:33 PM
These are the 2 batteries i am starting with. They are 12v and 10 or 11ah.

citfta
09-29-2012, 02:52 PM
From the pictures it doesn't look like you have any core in your coil. Also I can't tell from the pictures how close you have the coil to the magnets when you are trying the circuit. The coil needs to be mounted solidly about 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch from the magnets. The core needs to be some kind of mild steel like welding rod or even old coat hanger wire. You need to cut the wire a little longer than your coil and pack an many as you can into the center of your coil. Did you follow the procedure I gave in the post I linked to for checking out your coil?

Carroll

tachyoncatcher
09-29-2012, 02:54 PM
GPilot,
What kind of core does your coil have? Can't see from the images. You must have an iron core of some kind with the mass of a bicycle wheel.
Randy

Gpilot
09-29-2012, 04:44 PM
Right now i am using a solid steel rod that is welded to a small bracket that i screw to the bkard 1/8 of an inch from the magnets. I havnt mounted it yet, but will today. Just wanted to know if the direction the coil faces matters. I am waiting for some copper coated steel weldng.rods to arrive. But i should be a ble to work with the steel rod for now. You can see the rod.on the bottom left of the picture.

citfta
09-29-2012, 04:51 PM
Have you read the information I posted on an earlier thread about how to check out your coil? I gave you a link to that post. I am not going to retype all that information again.

Carroll

Gpilot
09-29-2012, 08:34 PM
@citfta, yes i.saw the link, and i had no sucess trying to get the coil to push the magnets away. If.seems to arrtact the magnet anyway i connect the wires. If i swith.the power wires and or.the trigger, i get.the same result, which is no result. I cant even.make an.electro magnet with my coil..dont know what to do now

tachyoncatcher
09-29-2012, 09:47 PM
GPilot,
Coil orientation matters a lot. So does magnet orientation. Magnets should have north side out. Coil should have north side facing the magnets. Get a compass. Power your coil. With your core in the coil, bring the compass near the coil core that faces the magnets. The compass needle arrow should point away from the core. The south side of the compass needle will be attracted to the north side of your coil. Many people get their power coil correct, but hook their trigger coil backward. This causes cancellation.
Good luck.
Randy

SkyWatcher
09-29-2012, 10:04 PM
Hi folks, Hi gpilot, maybe the 23 gauge trigger coil you are using is not sufficient to trigger the proper bias of the transistor for the amps that the heavier 18 gauge wire is asking for and may explain the slow rpms on your previous tests.
The 5 strand coil the mountain bike wheel we are using, are all the same wire gauges, though they recommend one or two gauges higher for the trigger coil and you are using 5 gauges higher for your trigger coil.
So if your going to use the 18 gauge primary wire, then go with 19 or 20 gauge for the trigger or the same gauge.
peace love light
tyson:sun:

Gpilot
09-30-2012, 12:15 AM
#20 and 23 wire, had to check

Guruji
09-30-2012, 08:02 AM
Try to use a led to CE transistor while turning the wheel to see if transistor is opening if not you have to increase thin wire.

Gpilot
09-30-2012, 10:56 AM
Try to use a led to CE transistor while turning the wheel to see if transistor is opening if not you have to increase thin wire.


Where do i connect the led? From what to what? Then the led should light up as i spin the wheel? Should the led take.place of the neon between collector and emitter?

Guruji
09-30-2012, 11:48 AM
Where do i connect the led? From what to what? Then the led should light up as i spin the wheel? Should the led take.place of the neon between collector and emitter?

You can do it after the emitter so that you know that the transistor is switching on.
Yes it should give pulses when you move the magnet infront of the coil otherwise transistor not switching.
Leave neon there.
If you used thicker coil for base then as skywatcher told you or wind coil again with thinner one or try to increase it's lenght.

Gpilot
10-01-2012, 10:53 AM
i used the same gauge wire bedini recomends. I need a compass. Also know my coil wires twisted together once or twice while i wound it. Is this a problem?

citfta
10-01-2012, 12:28 PM
Hi Gpilot,

Your coil looks fine. Your diodes are ok too unless one of them is shorted out or dead. The first thing you have to do is get the power winding of the coil working. Connect one end of the coil winding to the positive side of your battery. With the coil close to one of your magnets tap the other wire of the coil to the negative side of the battery. It should kick the magnet away. If it pulls the magnet harder toward the coil instead of pushing it away then you can either turn the coil around and use the other end of the coil or just swap the wires. If it does not do either then you have a problem. Either the coil is bad or the battery is dead. The problem with the coil may only be that you haven't cleaned the enamel coating off the wire good enough and you are not making a good connection to the battery. Do you have a meter you can use to check out the coil? The coil will work much better when you get a proper core for it. A solid piece of metal is not a good core for the coil. A bunch of soft iron wire packed into the center will work much better. You don't have to have the welding rods for your core. You can use some electric fence wire or old coat hanger wire. Almost any soft iron wire will work much better than a solid core.

If you don't have a meter to test your coil you can use a small 12 volt bulb like from the tail light of a car. Connect one end of the coil to the positive of the battery. Connect the other end to one of the connections on the bulb. Connect the other side of the bulb to the negative of the battery. The bulb should light up ok. If the bulb does not light up then you have a broken wire in the coil or you haven't cleaned the enamel off the wire like I said earlier. Until you can get the coil to kick the magnets away there is no use working on any of the rest of the circuit. You HAVE to get this part working first. I have built several of these circuits and have helped many other people to get theirs to work.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Gpilot
10-01-2012, 12:41 PM
so, i got a compass and my magnets were on backwards. I put them on the right way. I tried to run it again and still nothing. Not clear on where the led should be or what it connects to. I cant get the coil to push the wheel. Also cant deturmine north of my coil. I seem to have made every mistake possible. I still cant tell if my circuit is working wrong or if i need to wind my coil tighter and without any twisting. Please help

citfta
10-01-2012, 01:06 PM
Did you do the test with the light bulb and your coil? If the compass does not show a north or south on the coil then the coil is not working. The wheel will work even if you have all the magnets the wrong way. You would just have to reverse the connections to your coil so you would have south opposing south instead of north opposing north. Some people believe it works better if north is opposing north but it will still work with south opposing south. For right now we don't need the led. Did you carefully scrape the enamel off the ends of the wires? Do you know your battery is charged up? Can you put a small bulb on the battery and get it to light? If the bulb lights when on the battery then do the test with the coil and bulb in series with the battery and tell me if the bulb lights up.

Carroll

tachyoncatcher
10-01-2012, 06:37 PM
Another posibilty is a short between the 2 windings. Use a meter or test light, Carrol describes, and see if there is voltage on the unconnected winding while the battery is connected to the power coil. If there is, you have a short between windings and must rewind the coil. Magnet wire is easy ti skin.
Randy

Gpilot
10-01-2012, 07:46 PM
so, i scraped the enamal from the magnet wire, which i never did before. I got the light to come on when connected to the coil and battery. It isnt as bright as when only connected to the battery. I got the coil to repel the magnets as well. But when i hook up the circuit, it doesnt work. To this point, i feel like i am very close.

citfta
10-01-2012, 08:20 PM
Hi Gpilot,
OK, now we know the coil works. The light should be dimmer when connected through the coil. That is ok. Did you connect the negative side of the coil to the collector of the transistor? You need to keep the same wire going to the positive of the battery as you had it when it kicked the magnet away. You need to mount the coil next to the rotor and then give the rotor a spin. If you still have everything connected like your earlier pictures then it should start working. You may need to turn the pot all the way down and try again. If it does not run now then you need to switch the two trigger wires. Do NOT make any changes to the power winding wires. Did you get a proper core for your coil? If you do not have a good core then it will be harder to get the trigger winding to turn on the transistor. Your coil looks to be big enough it should be able to turn on the transistor easily with a good core.

Carroll

Gpilot
10-02-2012, 01:21 PM
I will try again with a coat hanger core. Right now when i try to run the machine, the wire going from the negative of my primary to the emitter keeps burning out. I also tried to bypass the diode that comes off the collector to see if the diode was bad. I get a spark when connected directly to the collector, but not when connected to the diode.

citfta
10-02-2012, 02:55 PM
Hi Gpilot,

If the wire from the primary negative to the emitter of the transistor is burning out you have a serious problem. It sounds like you transistor is shorted out. You should get a spark if you connect the negative to the collector. That just means there is current going through the coil. If you connect the negative to the emitter there should be no spark. Have you tried to run it without the neon bulb from the collector to the emitter? If you have, you have probably blown the transistor so that it is now shorted out. Never try to run this circuit without the neon bulb connected from the collector to the emitter.

To make sure about the transistor you need to do the following steps. First disconnect everything from the base of the transistor. Then connect a bulb from the positive of the battery to the collector of the transistor. Use the smallest bulb you can find for this test. Like a 12 volt grain of wheat bulb or small bulb like is used in the dashboard of a car. Now touch the negative of the battery to the emitter of the transistor. If the bulb even glows a little bit then the transistor is bad and will have to be replaced.

Please do this test and then post the results. Also if you have made any changes in the circuit from the way you showed in your earlier pictures then please post some new pictures. As far as I could tell from the earlier pictures you had everything wired up correctly. One other thing I can think of is this. I cannot tell for sure in the picture that you had the emitter and base wired correctly. If you turn the transistor the wrong way you would have the base and emitter backwards. Make sure you have them wired correctly. If you have them wired backwards you have probably blown the transistor that way too.

Later,
Carroll

Gpilot
10-02-2012, 03:44 PM
I will try again with a coat hanger core. Right now when i try to run the machine, the wire going from the negative of my primary to the emitter keeps burning out. I also tried to bypass the diode that comes off the collector to see if the diode was bad. I get a spark when connected directly to the collector, but not when connected to the diode.

Gpilot
10-02-2012, 04:55 PM
i did the test with the light and got nothing. I switched the transistor with another and the wire from the primary to the diode stopped frying out. When hooked up, the coil repels the magnet and the wheel comes to rest between the magnets. So it seems the problem is with the trigger. I have switched the trigger coil connections and still nothing. I made a new core from coat hangers as well. I will post some more pics and a youtube link that shows what happens when connected. Thanks for your continued support.

citfta
10-02-2012, 06:27 PM
Gpilot,

Are you saying the coil is staying on all the time and keeping the magnets repelled? If that is what is happening then you probably have the system in self oscillation or the new transistor is shorted. Here is how to test it to see what is happening. Disconnect the trigger wire from pot. Then apply power. If the magnet is stilled kicked away then your new transistor is also bad. If it does not kick the magnet away then you just need to get everything tuned up. With everything connected up you need to adjust the pot to get everything to work correctly. With the power off turn the pot all the way one way and then apply power. If it does not kick the magnet away then give the wheel a spin. If it is still kicking the magnet away then turn the power off and turn the pot all the way the other way and then turn the power back on and try again. When you get it to not kick the magnet if it does not run then turn the pot a little and give it another spin. With some adjustment you should be able to get it to run now.

Carroll

Gpilot
10-02-2012, 08:14 PM
Here is a youtube link for what is happening with my machine.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=_ieAwLq1PoQ&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D_ieAwLq1PoQ%26feature%3 Dyoutube_gdata_player)

citfta
10-02-2012, 08:42 PM
Hi again,

Ok the first thing I see wrong is how you have the pot connected. In your earlier pictures you did not show how the pot was connected to the trigger winding. You need to move the trigger winding to the center leg of the pot. The way you have it connected now the pot is at full resistance and the adjustment is not doing anything. Also did you try putting power to the circuit with the trigger lead disconnected from the pot? You need to try that to make sure the transistor is ok. With the trigger lead disconnected the coil should NOT kick the magnet away. If that test is OK then connect the trigger lead to the center leg of the pot and try again by first setting the pot all the way one way and then with it set all the way the other way. If that does not work then reverse the trigger leads and try everything again. Please follow these steps in the order I have given them. If you jump around in the steps then you will not get the correct results and will not be able to tell what is going on. If you can make a video of these tests so I can see the results.

Carroll

tachyoncatcher
10-02-2012, 09:01 PM
@Gpilot, your getting close.
@citfta, Magnificent instruction.
Randy

SkyWatcher
10-03-2012, 12:39 AM
Hi folks, Hi gpilot, in the video, it looks like the coil may be self oscillating or the transistor is fried, because the coil is supposed to be triggered by the wheels movement.
A lower base resistor value will stop any self oscillating.
Also, make sure to have a charge load that will take a decent charge initially, to prevent it back feeding to transistor and frying it.
peace love light
tyson:sun:

Gpilot
10-03-2012, 03:39 PM
I did the test on my transistor and it still kicks away the magnet. I tried again with another transistor i had and got the same result when the trigger is disconnected from the pot. I bought a new transistor, part number mj15004. They didnt have the same one i was using before. I did the test again and nothing happened. There isnt even a spark when i attach the emmiter to the negative of my primary. Is this transistor non compatable with system? I was certain the new transistor would solve my problem

tachyoncatcher
10-03-2012, 04:29 PM
@Gpilot,
That is a pnp transistor. Your drawing calls for a npn transistor. You could use that one with some rewiring, but you will be better off using the correct one. At least you know the problem AND solution.
Randy

Gpilot
10-03-2012, 04:39 PM
What is the part number for the right transistor? If i cant find one i will order it. I have seen people use different types, but any sugestions on what you all are having success with?

tachyoncatcher
10-03-2012, 04:51 PM
This is what I use.
5 MJL21194 Transistors used with Bedini Monopole Energizers. (http://www.r-charge.net/5-MJL21194-Transistors-used-with-Bedini-Monopole-Energizers.html)
Has worked well for me.
Randy

citfta
10-07-2012, 12:15 AM
Gpilot,

Where did you go? Did you get a good transistor and get your SSG to work. If you can't find the MJL21194 you can also use a 2N3055. The MJL is a better transistor and is stronger but the 2N3055 will work if you can't find the MJL21194.

Carroll

Gpilot
10-07-2012, 04:45 PM
I was given a BU 2508DF PHM0001 b4 transistor. I am.in.italy and there is still.a.language barrier. This one doesnt seem to work either, so.i just ordered a few that u recomended. Wikl keep u posted.

Gpilot
10-10-2012, 07:11 PM
Here is a link to youtube that shows the progress. I built a new circuit with all new componants. It still wont run. When i hook it all up, you can hear the electricity going through the coil. When i turn the pot up, the pitch of the sound is a higher frequency. You can hear the noise i am talking about, so turn your speakers up. Thanks mates.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=dEMT5DjTGkE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DdEMT5DjTGkE%26feature%3 Dyoutube_gdata_player)

Guruji
10-10-2012, 07:21 PM
Here is a link to youtube that shows the progress. I built a new circuit with all new componants. It still wont run. When i hook it all up, you can hear the electricity going through the coil. When i turn the pot up, the pitch of the sound is a higher frequency. You can hear the noise i am talking about, so turn your speakers up. Thanks mates.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=dEMT5DjTGkE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DdEMT5DjTGkE%26feature%3 Dyoutube_gdata_player)

It's probably self oscillating. If you want the rotor to turn you have to lower more the base resistance.

Gpilot
10-10-2012, 07:32 PM
How do i lower the base resistance?

SkyWatcher
10-10-2012, 09:00 PM
Hi folks, Hi gpilot, just experiment with different value resistors on the base leg of the transistor, as it is right now, your coil should be able to charge a secondary charge battery as it is in self oscillation.
Though you want the wheel to trigger the coil instead.
So lower the base resistance until you hear it stop oscillating and use meter or neon on output to verify it is not oscillating, as you would see a much higher voltage than input.
Hope that helps some more.
peace love light
tyson:sun: :thumbsup:

tachyoncatcher
10-11-2012, 12:00 AM
Gpilot,
It's self oscillating. What size is your pot? Bigger coils, require bigger base resistance. If 1k or higher, double check your diodes for correct orientation. If correct, switch the wires on the trigger coil. If all that fails, follow citftas direction for troubleshooting coils.
Randy

Gpilot
10-11-2012, 01:16 PM
I got the machine to run! It only runs slowly at the moment, iwould estimate 60-100 rpm. I tried several different resistors, and tried putting a few together, but no effect. I cant get itto speed up when i adjust the pot. What do you think? Here is a video of it working.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=tZTrFgBlJQs&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DtZTrFgBlJQs%26feature%3 Dyoutube_gdata_player)

wrtner
10-11-2012, 02:01 PM
I got the machine to run! It only runs slowly at the moment, iwould estimate 60-100 rpm. I tried several different resistors, and tried putting a few together, but no effect. I cant get itto speed up when i adjust the pot. What do you think? Here is a video of it working.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=tZTrFgBlJQs&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DtZTrFgBlJQs%26feature%3 Dyoutube_gdata_player)

Have you tuned it with the variable pot? (I think it is called
the 1 ohm test).
John Bedini Monopole Mechanical Oscillator Simplified School Girl SSG Presentation (http://rpmgt.org/SSG.html)

tachyoncatcher
10-11-2012, 03:45 PM
Great! You got it running. Now the fun begins. Experiment, experiment.
Did you follow earlier direction and get rid of that solid core? Solid cores cause drag, heat and power loss on these machines. Also the steel L bracket behind your coil is not good.
Randy

Gpilot
10-11-2012, 07:11 PM
After about 30 or 40 minutes it eventually slowed down and stopped. I have tried with all types of resistors from 100 ohms to 680ohms. The only difference i find is a change in the pitch of the sound. Still unable to keep it going, and speed it up. I have gotten rid of the solid core and i am using 2-3 dozen clothes hangers cut to theright length and super glued together. I will change the steel bracket, but the machine should run the way it is. I am going to buy some larger resistors tomorrow in the 800-1k range and see if it will start. When i disconect the secondary battery, the neon begins to glow. That is how it should opperate, but still, it eventually stops. I got another 1k pot as well, but no change.

Guruji
10-11-2012, 07:33 PM
After about 30 or 40 minutes it eventually slowed down and stopped. I have tried with all types of resistors from 100 ohms to 680ohms. The only difference i find is a change in the pitch of the sound. Still unable to keep it going, and speed it up. I have gotten rid of the solid core and i am using 2-3 dozen clothes hangers cut to theright length and super glued together. I will change the steel bracket, but the machine should run the way it is. I am going to buy some larger resistors tomorrow in the 800-1k range and see if it will start. When i disconect the secondary battery, the neon begins to glow. That is how it should opperate, but still, it eventually stops. I got another 1k pot as well, but no change.

Try to do a resistor as low as 10ohms and see.

Gpilot
10-11-2012, 07:38 PM
I will get a 10ohms and 900. Hopefully one of the extremes will work.

wrtner
10-11-2012, 09:44 PM
I have gotten rid of the solid core and i am using 2-3 dozen clothes hangers cut to theright length and super glued together.


Likely to be ordinary steel. I think you will find that they are useless.

You need to use the correct material which I reckon is swedish soft iron.
Welding rods should work well, if you hammer off the flux coating.

tachyoncatcher
10-11-2012, 10:48 PM
The steel bracket will effect the magnetic flux of the coil tremendously. Prolly causing it to sing like it is. I did some tests with steel plates on the south side of the coil for flux shaping and they caused the coil to sing. The purpose of the iron wire in the coil is two fold. One, to reduce the eddy currents. Eddy currents cause drag, heat, and power loss. Two, soft iron does not hold magnetism as readily as steel. If your circuit is working as it should, the magnetic poles of the coil will switch. Soft iron will switch easier than steel. I have had good luck with hanger wire. A good test is to remove the coil from the machine, after running it, and see if a pin or needle is magnetically attracted. If so, the core is retaining the magnetism. Not good.

On the subject of resistance. It depends on the amount of wire in your coil. The longer the trigger wire, the more resistance you will need. My current energizer uses over 2k base resistance. My pot is a 5k pot. To test your setup, give it a SMALL push. It should speed up from there. If it doesn't, your circuit needs work. Best to work on your circuit with a neon instead of a battery, so you can see if it is pulsing correctly. If the neon doesn't flash when the wheel is given a small spin, the circuit will not push the wheel as a motor. I'll say it again, get rid of that steel bracket! Glue a frickin piece of wood on the back of your coil to hold it down.
Randy

Gpilot
10-15-2012, 06:18 PM
Ok, where do i begin... I have a 1k ohms pot and a 5k ohms pot. I have virtually every resistor from 100 ohms to 3k ohms. No matter what combination i use, the machine doesnt run. I took the steel mount off and i held the coil by hand. It ALWAYS pulls, never pushes. Even if i use the opposite end of the coil. The different resistors and or pot have made no difference. The is still the sound of elextricity vibrating the aluminium rim of my wheel. Could my coil be the problem? I have no idea watsoever of what i should do next. The wheel never speeds up, always slows to a stop. I am using the right transistor, right size trigger and power wires. The only way i can get the coil to repel the magnet is if i conect the coil directly to the - and + of a battery. I cant do any of the tuning tests b/c i cant get it to repel and speed up, or at least keep the wheel spinning. Do i need to start over? Do i need to rewind my coil? Currently, my bifoiler coil is wound with a few twists in the wire. I have all possible parts and materials. I am very lost and frustrated. The simple school girl is giving this man complications. I do know that this is the place to learn, from the most knoledgable people in this field. I am.not giving up, so please stay with me. I know i.can.do.it

citfta
10-15-2012, 08:16 PM
Hi Gpilot,

Ok lets do this one step at a time. First you need to mount the coil solidly about 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch from one of the magnets. The exact space is not that important at this time. It should run anywhere in between those spacings. Next connect the coil like I said earlier to your battery and get it to kick the magnet away. Then leave the end going to the positive of the battery alone so it can be hooked back up later. Now connect the end that was going to the negative of the battery to the collector of the transistor. Leave the trigger wires disconnected for now. When you connect the coil and transistor to the battery it should not kick the magnet away. If it does then the transistor is bad. Now with a good transistor we will try and get the trigger wiring going correctly. Connect one end of the trigger wires to the emitter of the transistor. Connect the other end to the center leg of your 5k pot. With the pot sitting on your work area with the shaft sticking up you want to connect the 100 ohm resistor to the leg that is clockwise from the center leg. This way when you turn the pot clockwise you will be increasing the resistance of the pot. Now connect the other end of the 100 ohm resistor to the base of the transistor. Be sure you have the diode from the base connected in the right way with the stripe of the diode going to the base of the transistor and the other end going to the emitter.

Now turn the pot all the way counterclockwise. Now apply power and give the wheel a spin. If it does not keep going on its own then you need to swap the two wires from the trigger winding and try again. Do not change the power winding wires! Be sure you have a neon from the collector to the emitter BEFORE you give it a spin and it would be better to have your charge battery connected too. Also be sure you have the diode from the collector to the charge battery connected with the stripe end going to the positive of the charge battery.

Please follow these steps in exactly this order and let me know what happens. I will be gone for a few hours but I will check back later this evening to see what you have. I know we can get this to work because I have gotten several of them working. Do you have any kind of a meter for troubleshooting? It is possible you could have a shorted coil but I haven't seen anything you have said so far to make me think that is the problem.

Later,
Carroll

Gpilot
10-16-2012, 01:40 PM
i am going to work on it now. I also want to know if i can use steel shavings as my core. I can pack them in tight like sand and superglue it solid. Will this work better than hangers

citfta
10-16-2012, 02:39 PM
Hi Gpilot,

I don't think steel shavings would work very well. Steel has a tendency to retain the magnetism. We don't want the coil core to retain any magnetism after the power is off the coil. If you have some of the steel that is not shavings you can try a test to see if they will work. Put your solid piece of steel in the coil and then apply power to the coil for about a second or so. Then see if the steel will pick up a paper clip after you take it out of the core. If it will pick up a paper clip then it will NOT work as a good core material. The coat hangers wires should work ok as they are usually soft iron and not steel. You can try the same test with your coat hanger wires to see if they will work. If you can get some soft iron filings or chips then they will probably work too. I have used electric fence wire on mine and it works fine.

Carroll

SkyWatcher
10-16-2012, 05:09 PM
Hi folks, hi gpilot, or you could just go for solid state as mine is now, set aside the wheel and now using the diode and cap into bases method, still have the emitter/base diodes in place and it works great.
With it solid state, it can be amped up more and the frequency boosted a bit and can charge large batteries at a faster rate.
If you need the circuit the way it is working well in this setup, let me know.
peace love light
tyson:sun:

tachyoncatcher
10-17-2012, 12:04 AM
Gpilot,
Don't give up on the rotary oscillator just yet. It is important that you understand the why of this simple machine and there is no better way than to build a working model. Follow Carroll's direction and he will have you running that thing in no time. The smallest detail can trip you up. Focus will shine through the fog. Good luck with your build. i will throw my 2 cents in there if I can add to the conversation. You're in good hands with Carroll.
Randy

totoalas
10-17-2012, 12:02 PM
Pictures by totoalas - Photobucket (http://s1290.photobucket.com/albums/b526/totoalas/)

Hi just want to share my build more tests to come


totoalas

wrtner
10-17-2012, 03:19 PM
i am going to work on it now. I also want to know if i can use steel shavings as my core.

No. You are going round in circles.

This is where to find the answers. Try the "coil winding diagram" thread:
Bedini Monopole 3 - Beginners (http://www.energyscienceforum.com/bedini-monopole-3-beginners/)

tachyoncatcher
10-18-2012, 02:13 AM
Gpilot,
You need to follow Carroll's lead, but first make sure you have no short between windings. With a ohm meter, check the resistance of one winding. Then move one probe to the other winding, leave the other alone. If you get anything other than -0-, you have a short. Rewind the coil.
If you have no meter, try the magnet repel Carroll describes. When you get that working, take a wire off of one end of the battery and connect the other winding wire to that battery terminal. Leave the other wire connected to the battery and see if the magnet kicks. If it does, you have a short. Rewind the coil. Your hanger core is fine.
Randy

Gpilot
10-25-2012, 09:54 PM
Here is a new video of some testing.

YouTube (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=XWqLLClTUMM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DXWqLLClTUMM%26feature%3 Dyoutube_gdata_player)

tachyoncatcher
10-26-2012, 02:20 AM
Gpilot,
Did you follow the direction above to test for a short between the windings?
Randy

Gpilot
11-02-2012, 01:32 PM
I did the test using my ohms meter and I get 0. So there is no short. What else?

tachyoncatcher
11-03-2012, 01:02 AM
Gpilot,
0 would indicate a short. Infinite ohms would be a good reading. If you are getting 0 ohms between windings then your coil is not going to work for you.
Randy

Gpilot
11-03-2012, 10:52 AM
Ok, 0 wasnt an entirly accurate answer. When i turn on my ohms meter, it says 1. When i put the meter on my power coil, the number increases. When i move one probe to my trigger, it goes back to 1. I only said 0 because i figured it was zeroing at 1. If you still think there is a short, i can rewind the coil.

wrtner
11-03-2012, 03:29 PM
Ok, 0 wasnt an entirly accurate answer. When i turn on my ohms meter, it says 1. When i put the meter on my power coil, the number increases. When i move one probe to my trigger, it goes back to 1. I only said 0 because i figured it was zeroing at 1. If you still think there is a short, i can rewind the coil.

I wonder if your meter is faulty. You could go out and buy a resistor
of 10 ohm, and if it is a 10% resistor, the meter should measure somewhere
in the range from 9 ohms to 11 ohms

Paul-R

tachyoncatcher
11-03-2012, 08:39 PM
I'm with Paul on that one. A reading of 1 for infinite is weird. How would you know if a 1 ohm resistor is good? Wind another coil with different wire. You can always use that original coil for a second power coil if you find there was a different problem, but as you have changed just about everything, but the coil, I'm betting the coil is your issue.
Randy

Gpilot
11-10-2012, 12:17 PM
The reading on my ohms meter for the power winding is 5.5. The reading for the trigger winding is 11. When i put 1 probe from power to trigger, or vice versa, the reading is 0. The coil seems to be okay, but you are right. I have changed everything but the coil. I should wind a new one.

tachyoncatcher
11-11-2012, 12:37 AM
Well Gpilot, if my ohm meter read 0 when I put a probe on a trigger winding and the other probe on a power winding, I would KNOW that it has a short. But that just my ohm meters.
Randy

Gpilot
11-11-2012, 04:57 PM
What should the meter read when 1 probe is on a trigger and the other is on the power winding?

tachyoncatcher
11-12-2012, 02:04 AM
I'm assuming you have your windings disconnected from your circuits when you do these checks. If not, then you are simply reading resistance in your circuits.

Disconnect both ends of your coil windings.
Put one probe on a wire of your power winding.
Put the other probe on a wire of your trigger winding.
Set meter to highest ohms setting it has. If digital, this step not needed.
Resistance should be greater than what your meter can read. If 0, then shorted.

Gpilot, there should be no electrical path between windings. Therefore, your meter should not be able to get an ohm reading of any kind, especially 0.
Good Luck,
Randy

Gpilot
11-18-2012, 01:14 PM
Here is a link for the ohms test with my meter and coil. When i turn my meter to ohms, it shows a 1 with a decimal. When i put the meter on my power winding, the number bounces around from 18-200+. Same with the trigger winding. When i put the meter on one of each, it shows a 1, which is no reading, same as when the probes are touching nothing.

YouTube (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=CsWbHHAnDHY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DCsWbHHAnDHY%26feature%3 Dyoutube_gdata_player)

What should i do now? If there is a video you would like me to make showing setup, or operation, let me know and i will post it. Thanks guys.

tachyoncatcher
11-19-2012, 02:40 AM
I see the problem. Get rid of that spool you're using for your coil. You want your windings to be as close to the wire core as possible without touching. You have, what looks like a 3/4" soft iron core surrounded by a 1" air core, then your windings. That won't work. Get an old spool that some speaker wire or bell wire or something like that. Something with a 5/8-3/4" center that the magnet wire can wrap around and you can fill with your welding rods or coat hanger wire. No air between your iron core and the plastic core of the spool that you are winding around. Hope that is clear. That is definitely your problem.
Randy

Gpilot
11-21-2012, 09:02 PM
I wound a new coil with a spool i bought from resinance charge. I am also using copper coated steel welding rods as my core. I still have no success. I dont notice any difference from changing the core, spool, mount, pot, diodes, resistors, or transistors. The batteries are brand new... It NEVER pushes the wheel. It NEVER accelerates. It still makes the sound of electricity when it is hooked up and powered. When i adjust the pot, the audible frequency changes. If i disconect the charging battery, the bulb lights. Any more thoughts?

tachyoncatcher
11-22-2012, 12:14 AM
Video please of your new setup.
Randy

wrtner
11-22-2012, 04:26 PM
If i disconect the charging battery, the bulb lights.
Have you ever run it with the battery to be charged disconnected?

I think that this can blow the transistor which should be protected, to
some extent, by the small neon bulb.

Try a new transistor.

Gpilot
11-22-2012, 08:39 PM
Hello folks, here is a new video of the new coil, mount, and circuit. Same results.. Non functional. I have changed my transistor so many times now. I dont think any of them are bad. I think it is another problem, but you know better than me.. Ill try another transistor.

YouTube (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=HvbYzqll4DA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DHvbYzqll4DA%26feature%3 Dyoutube_gdata_player)

torpex
11-22-2012, 10:10 PM
Hello folks, here is a new video of the new coil, mount, and circuit. Same results.. Non functional. I have changed my transistor so many times now. I dont think any of them are bad. I think it is another problem, but you know better than me.. Ill try another transistor.

YouTube (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=HvbYzqll4DA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DHvbYzqll4DA%26feature%3 Dyoutube_gdata_player)

Hi all

@Gpilot
At this point, I thought we'd try Imhotep mod fan:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2003-free-energy-last-step-step-must-see.html#post19462

It is a easy tool to check the circuit.
Then we can see if the fault comes from the electrical circuit or the mechanical part (wheel+magnets+coil).
Good luck ;)

http://cacharreo.com.es/fh/il07o.jpg (http://Cacharreo.com.es/foro)

Gpilot
11-24-2012, 01:19 PM
I had a small, but important breakthrough today with my machine. I bypassed the resistor from the transistor base to the pot and got the machine to accelerate and run on its own. I estimate the rpm to be between 120-180. I know i need to have the resistor on to function properly, but since it is running now, i thought you guys could help me troubleshoot since we have zeroed in on the problem. The machine seems to have the highest rpm when the pot it around 40%. When i turn it more to the right, the frequency of the sound gets higher, but it doesnt increase the rpm. What should i do to boost the rmps?

Gpilot
11-24-2012, 08:54 PM
Here is a video of the ssg running for the 1st time. I had to bypass the resistor to get it to function.
YouTube (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=iOX1I7gPUus&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DiOX1I7gPUus%26feature%3 Dyoutube_gdata_player)

Gpilot
11-24-2012, 09:01 PM
While i was trying to get my rpms up, i tried using a spent 12v battery as the seconday. It started with 1.5v. The machine would ONLY function if the pot was all the way to the left, full resistance. If i turned the pot up at all, the pot would spark and the neon would illuminate. I left the pot turned down and charged the battery for 1 hr. and it went from 1.5 to 4.5. I have switched to an identicle battery as my primary and will be charging and discharging them for a few days. Just need my rpms up.

tachyoncatcher
11-25-2012, 03:43 AM
Way to hang in there Garrett. That's a good rpm for a single coil, bike wheel energizer. A 12v battery discharged and holding 1.5 volt is a VERY bad battery. Let your Bedini charge that battery over night. Let it rest for 2 hours, if it holds >10v then charge it again. If less, then it is probably permanently damaged, unless it's an old battery. Do not try to use that battery to run your wheel. It needs a lot of conditioning. You should get a ohm reading of your pot by disconnecting one of the leads and get a reading where the leads were on your pot. This will tell you your base resistance for your wheel.
Great Job!
Randy

Gpilot
11-25-2012, 05:10 AM
Ok, so if this is a good rpm, what should i do about the resistor? i am not using one right now, that the only way i got it to run. if i add another coil, do the magnets have to be PERFECTLY spaced apart? also, does it need to be a bifoiler coil as well? do i need a seperate trigger for each coil? i will do the ohms test to find my machines resistance. any more tips for increasing the rpm?

tachyoncatcher
11-26-2012, 12:33 AM
@Gpilot,
If you truly want to scale up your wheel, then I suggest next Tuesday, you get this:
http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/12940-authorized-bedini-sg-handbook.html
There is no one on the planet with more knowledge than John Bedini when it comes to building these things. Regarding finding base resistance; I gave you direction on my post from yesterday. However, to start your wheel, you may need a lower base resistance. My wheel has a starting base resistance of only 50 ohms. Once it spins up I adjust my pot to around 2k for the best tuning parameters for my wheel. Yes, your magnets should be evenly spaced. How else would you be able to tune the timing of your wheel if the magnets reach the coils at different times? Use only one trigger for all coils. I'm sure the handbook will have a good schematic for that. I use one transistor for each winding. IE, if a coil has 5 windings, then I use 5 transistors for that coil and the trigger comes from my primary coil. When you start building multi coil machines, precision becomes important.
Good Luck.
Randy

Sephiroth
11-26-2012, 10:08 AM
While i was trying to get my rpms up, i tried using a spent 12v battery as the seconday. It started with 1.5v. The machine would ONLY function if the pot was all the way to the left, full resistance. If i turned the pot up at all, the pot would spark and the neon would illuminate. I left the pot turned down and charged the battery for 1 hr. and it went from 1.5 to 4.5. I have switched to an identicle battery as my primary and will be charging and discharging them for a few days. Just need my rpms up.

This is entirely because you have a heavily sulphated battery as a load. The impedance of the battery is so high the trigger circuit is a lower impedance so that's where the energy is going.

I'm trying to bring a battery back to life that I intentionally killed for the experiment ^_^ At the moment it sits on around 4v but the spikes going to it are off the scale on my scope so over 500v! This is lighting up the neons but my pot seems safe. What are you using for a base resistor?

Gpilot
11-26-2012, 06:13 PM
This is entirely because you have a heavily sulphated battery as a load. The impedance of the battery is so high the trigger circuit is a lower impedance so that's where the energy is going.

I'm trying to bring a battery back to life that I intentionally killed for the experiment ^_^ At the moment it sits on around 4v but the spikes going to it are off the scale on my scope so over 500v! This is lighting up the neons but my pot seems safe. What are you using for a base resistor?

The only way i could get my machine to function was to bypass the resistor. Although the resistor is still soldered to the base, i have the pot directly attached to the base. I have resistors of all sizes, but none of them would accelerate the wheel.

Sephiroth
11-26-2012, 08:15 PM
It does sound like the pot is completely burnt out. Turning all the way down just makes a dead short.

What's the lowest base resistor you've tried?

Sephiroth
11-26-2012, 08:36 PM
after reading through some of the earlier posts, it sounds like the circuit is being forced into self oscillation. It's normal for an ssg to self oscillate some times, but the magnets passing the stator normally stops the self oscillation.

There's only two things I can think of that could be forcing it into self oscillation.

1. If your base resistors are actually a lot higher than you think they are. Like over 1k ohm.

or

2. If the 1N4001 diode is removed from the circuit it will force it into oscillation.

Have you tried replacing that diode?

Gpilot
11-26-2012, 08:52 PM
I have a 1k pot, 2k pot, and 5k pot. I felt i had burned up the 5k, so now using the 2k. 100ohms is the lowest resistor ive tried. 1k ohms is the most. How can my ssg be in self osilation if the machine works now? I tiny push will accelerate the wheel. I can change the diode. Which one? Base or collector?

Sephiroth
11-26-2012, 09:17 PM
Without the 1n4001 diode an ssg circuit will oscillate at very low resistances, but go low enough and it will behave "normally" (except no ssg should be operating with a resistance this low). The 1n4001 is the diode between the base and the emitter.

Gpilot
11-26-2012, 10:02 PM
Without the 1n4001 diode an ssg circuit will oscillate at very low resistances, but go low enough and it will behave "normally" (except no ssg should be operating with a resistance this low). The 1n4001 is the diode between the base and the emitter.

Both of my diodes are 1n4001 because every place i went (in italy) told me the 4001 and 4007 are the same. I will change the diode and see what happens. But, is it even possible for the machine to be self oscillate if the wheel accelerates to 120-180 rmp one 1 coil?

Sephiroth
11-26-2012, 10:38 PM
Both of my diodes are 1n4001 because every place i went (in italy) told me the 4001 and 4007 are the same. I will change the diode and see what happens. But, is it even possible for the machine to be self oscillate if the wheel accelerates to 120-180 rmp one 1 coil?

It isn't self oscillating at that rpm. though it could possible oscillate at that frequency.

I'll put it this way. Most machines with fairly normal coils will self oscillate with around 1-2k ohm base resistance... as long as their resistance doesn't go above a certain level it won't self oscillate. Now if they take out the 1n4001 diode the resistance needed to get it self oscillating will be something like 10 times lower (I'm pulling a figure out of a hat here) because it turns the trigger side of the circuit into and LC circuit and so it oscillates. But if the resistance is very low (ZERO in you case) then it won't self oscillate. It's hard to explain without diagrams of how the charges are behaving in the circuit, but just trust me for now ;)

Gpilot
11-27-2012, 11:05 AM
Ok, i understand what you are saying. Should i change the diode, find the resistancec of my transistor, and install a new resistor? I am still unsure how to test my base resistance. Tach gave mecsome instruction, but itvwas unclear as to where to put my probes..

Sephiroth
11-27-2012, 11:27 AM
just try replacing the diode across the base/emitter.

You won't be able to find the resistance of the base of your transistor. When we talk about base resistance we mean the resistance that you have in series in the trigger circuit which is the base resistor & the pot.

It might not be the diode that is the problem, but that is what it sounds like. Either way, there is no way an SSG should be running with 0 ohm base resistance. Your amp draw will be astronomical and charging efficiency very poor.

Gpilot
11-27-2012, 03:02 PM
I will change the diode, then experiment with different resistors again. Hopefully i can get it working with a resistor

tachyoncatcher
11-29-2012, 02:12 AM
Garrett,
Save yourself a LOT of more trouble. Get the book.
Bedini SG - The Authorized Beginner's Handbook (http://www.emediapress.com/go.php?offer=qiman&pid=36)
It explains it all in easy to understand terminology. You already have the parts you need.
Randy

Gpilot
11-29-2012, 01:52 PM
Yes, i will buy the book. But everytime i ask a question are you just going to tell me to buy the book? Another question, i have trouble soldering directly to the collector. All other solders are easy, but the bulb and the diode to the collector seem to take forever to attach. I fear that the heat could be damaging the componants. Is there a trick for soldering directly to a smooth, flat piece of metal? I scratched the surface a little to try and get a good surface, but still difficult, and hot.

Gpilot
11-29-2012, 04:08 PM
I bought a solder tag kit to put on my transistor so i can easily solder to the collector. I dont know exactly how to use it. There is a clear film that goes over the transistor, and some plastic spacers, and some nuts and screws. This way i wont heat up the componants too much. I will be getting the book for Christmas as well.

Gpilot
11-30-2012, 04:43 PM
I made a new circuit from left over parts and got the machine running. I tried a 100 ohms resistor first, and it came to life. Now, should i test with different value resistors? Also, how can i test the amp draw with a basic multimeter? Before when i was running the machine with no resistor, the primary battery would loose the ability to power the wheel after about 20-24 hrs. What is a good time to shoot for, and will changing the resistance further improve running time?

Sephiroth
11-30-2012, 05:12 PM
Glad you got it working :) 100 ohm is fine for now. that should give your pot some protection. Are you still using the 2k pot? How far do you have to twist the dial to get it to run best?

As fo the current draw, you hook your ammeter in series with either positive or negative input. But without a good quality meter (a True RMS meter preferably) or at least an analogue meter it may not give you a completely accurate reading on the current because it is being pulsed. It shouldn't be too far out and will give you an idea of the current draw.

The current draw you want will depend on where your machine runs best, which is usually where it achieves the highest RPM for the lowest current draw. Another guide is the C20 rate of your battery, which is the battery's AH rating divided by 20... so for example a 24AH battery can comfortable handle 1.2 amps being drawn from it. This is just so the batteries stay in good condition.

What kind of batteries are you using? I would be suprised if they could handle 20-24h discharge with a SG the size of yours with no base resistor :o How far would you let the voltage drop? If they are deep cycle batteries you don't want to discharge them below 10.5v... if they are car batteries then never below 12v. Going beyond these voltages will damage the batteries.

Sephiroth
11-30-2012, 05:20 PM
]the primary battery would loose the ability to power the wheel after about 20-24 hrs.[/B]

eep! Just read that again! I'm guessing this is the battery you tried charging earlier in the thread that was causing the neon to light.

Unfortunately, I have a feeling it will be a while before you can use that battery again. Last week I discharged a deep cycle battery below 4v to see how well an SSG can bring it back to life. It has become heavily sulfated and has been on an SG charger for a week with over 500v pulses going to it, but its resting voltage is still not over 5v. It has shown some improvement but don't think I'll be able to use this battery for a good while.

Gpilot
11-30-2012, 05:24 PM
I have a 1k, 2k, and 5k pot. With the 2k pot, it starts the best with the pot at 0.. All the way left. It speeds up as i turn the pot, but only to about 25%, then slows back down. With the 5k pot, i cant tell any difference when i adjust the pot. I am using motorcycle batteries, 12v, i think 7.5ah.
One the battery gets to 10.5v, u are saying i should then reverse the batteries to protect them? 1 cycle ends when the primary battery reaches 10.5?

Gpilot
11-30-2012, 05:28 PM
eep! Just read that again! I'm guessing this is the battery you tried charging earlier in the thread that was causing the neon to light.

Unfortunately, I have a feeling it will be a while before you can use that battery again. Last week I discharged a deep cycle battery below 4v to see how well an SSG can bring it back to life. It has become heavily sulfated and has been on an SG charger for a week with over 500v pulses going to it, but its resting voltage is still not over 5v. It has shown some improvement but don't think I'll be able to use this battery for a good while.

No, the battery i used last week i pulled from someones garbage. It was sitting at 1.5 volts. The battery that ran for almost a day was a brand new 12v 7.5ah, i bought 2. I ran it down to 4v, like you did. I switched it to the secondary, and it charged up again in 1 cycle. What this tells me is i need to study more about the batteries, and how to safely use them. I am so new to this.

Sephiroth
11-30-2012, 05:38 PM
No, the battery i used last week i pulled from someones garbage. It was sitting at 1.5 volts. The battery that ran for almost a day was a brand new 12v 7.5ah, i bought 2. I ran it down to 4v, like you did. I switched it to the secondary, and it charged up again in 1 cycle. What this tells me is i need to study more about the batteries, and how to safely use them. I am so new to this.

ah, that sounds ok then. :) If the battery has an AH rating on it then I'm pretty sure that means it is a deep cycle battery so yeah, never take it below 10.5v... I don't even like to take mine close to 11.5v just in case!

With 7.5ah batteries you don't want the current draw to go above 375ma which should be fine for a single coil machine. They normally draw between 200 - 350ma.

With the 2k pot turned up around 25% sounds about right. Normally a SG uses a base resistance somewhere around 600ohm (it can vary a lot though). If your 2k pot is turned up 25% and you have a base resistor which is 100ohms that is bang on 600ohms :)

You should be able to up the base resistor to 3-400 ohms and use the 1k pot.

Gpilot
11-30-2012, 05:59 PM
If i use a 1k pot and 300-400 ohms resistor, will it change any of the results i get? What would be the advantage of doing that? Am i wasting electricity in my current setup with the 2k pot?

Sephiroth
11-30-2012, 08:19 PM
unless you ever need to turn the dial past 50% on the 2k pot then you will be better off with a 1k pot. The advantage of using the 1k pot is it will be easier to tune but it won't make any overall difference to the performance or efficiency of the circuit.

Gpilot
12-01-2012, 07:13 PM
I am using the same 100 ohms resistor with a 1k pot. Would it be better if i used 300 ohms resistance and the 1k pot? Will it help with the fine tuning?

Gpilot
12-01-2012, 11:27 PM
It seems when i added the 100 ohms resistor, i lost the ability to tune using my pot(1k). Should i lower my resistor to 50 ohms?

Sephiroth
12-02-2012, 10:36 AM
It seems when i added the 100 ohms resistor, i lost the ability to tune using my pot(1k).

How do you mean? When you turn the pot it makes no difference to the rotor?

Gpilot
12-02-2012, 01:25 PM
Adjusting the pot does not change the speed of the wheel. Fine tuning is not possible. When i was running the machine without a resistor, i was able to adjust the speed of the wheel with the pot, up to about 25% with both the 1k and 2k pot. Now nothing, constand speed.

Sephiroth
12-02-2012, 02:11 PM
The only reason that can happen is if there is a short across the pot. Can you post a pic of the circuit?

Gpilot
12-02-2012, 04:03 PM
Here is a pic of the circuit and connections.

Sephiroth
12-02-2012, 04:26 PM
ok, so the crocodile clips on the pot definitely aren't touching each other? Also, how many connections are there on that pot? 2 pins or three pins?

Gpilot
12-02-2012, 05:50 PM
They are not touching. The pot has 3 pins. It is connected correct, where turning it clockwise increases rpm. Only it isnt increasing rmp. Should i go from 100 ohms to 50 ohms? Or should i go the other way to 200-400?

Gpilot
12-02-2012, 09:16 PM
This question is a little off topic, but would it be possible to make a frictionless bearing/rotor using ring shaped neo's attached to the hub of the rim, and more neo's inside the mount?

Sephiroth
12-03-2012, 08:29 AM
They are not touching. The pot has 3 pins. It is connected correct, where turning it clockwise increases rpm. Only it isnt increasing rmp. Should i go from 100 ohms to 50 ohms? Or should i go the other way to 200-400?

The base resistor isn't the problem. You've already shown your sg can run happily on 600ohms base resistance. If the pot is having no effect, and it is operating as if it isn't in the circuit, then there must be a short across it. I've no other ideas on how to fix it I'm afraid.

There are people using magnetic levetation instead of bearings so yes, that's possible. But with a bike wheel the majority of your friction will be from wind resistance rather than rolling friction.

Gpilot
12-03-2012, 06:51 PM
I guess ill get another 1k pot then. I have a 2k, and a 4.7k pot, but same results with those which is no ability to change rpm. When i bypass the resistor again, meaning no resistor, i can adjust the rmp a bit.

Gpilot
12-03-2012, 09:11 PM
Something else i have noticed is my charging battery doesnt seem to be charging very well. My primary battery looses volts as it should, but the secondary battery never seems to charge as fast as the primary discharges. I havent seen the secondary battery stand above 12v for a while. When i was running the machine without the resistor, i was getting the secondary battery above 13.5v. Now, it seems to stay around 12.96v. I should at least be able to have 1 battery always above 12v if the machine is working right, and if i start with at least 1 battery above 12v. When i started, both batteries were sitting at 12.4v, +or- .2v.

dagwood111
01-26-2013, 03:28 AM
Hello , ive been reading and trying too make an SSG , im a complete newb so be gentle with me , lol. i have built the little beast and cant get it too spin up by itself , i have tried a lot of the things mentioned in the replys here , for example , when coil is powered by 12v car battery alone it will repel the magnets , i have brough 5 of everthing too make sure i have spares ;) , one thing i do have different too the schematics is the 1n4001 , i am using a 1N4004 will this matter ? All help is GREATLY appreciated , oh and i must say , IM HOOKED , lol great little hobbie this:)

citfta
01-27-2013, 10:21 PM
Dagwood go to post #62 in this thread and follow it step by step. DO NOT skip any steps or take anything for granted. Just follow the steps and you should be able to get it running. Also you will get a lot more help if you are willing to give more information. There are probably hundreds of Bedini builds on the internet and Youtube and a lot of them are not built according to the way John Bedini says they should be. So where did you get your information on how to build one? In other words what parts did you use. What transistor, what size pot (potentiometer), did you use a grain of wheat bulb in the trigger circuit, and how many turns of wire and what size wire did you use for your coil? What magnets did you use and how close are they? All these things matter and you didn't give us any info we could use to try and help you. All you said was it didn't work. I am not really trying to give you a hard time. I am just explaining why you haven't gotten a response any sooner. If you can post a picture of your setup that would really be a help.

Respectfully,
Carroll

PS: You do know that you have to give it a spin my hand to get it started I hope?

dagwood111
01-28-2013, 12:15 AM
Hello , thankyou for your reply , i was a bit hasty with my first post , i am trying to build a bedini SSG , i have followed the 2 main you tube tutorials being , sephiroth and jeff williams , i have downloaded the schematics from this website , Firstly , i made a coil from the specified wire sizes , i wound the wire on with care and put 850 winds onto the spool , i then used welding rods for the core , my core is 2cm , i then used a 2N3055 transistor to start my bedini circuit , i then have used a N14004 instead of a N14001 diode , this may be my issue with it not working :) , white stripe towards the base i soldered it on other end too the emitter , i then soldered the 400ohm resistor too the base end then soldered the resistor too the far right leg of the pensometer , then put it all together following jeff williams you tube video , the SSG repels the magnets but after i spin it with power connected it slowly stops , i know i need too supply more info and pictures which i will do today , one question though , i am using 1cm round ceramic magnets doubled up and my core is 2cm , will the magnets penetrate the core enough too trigger the transistor ??

dagwood111
01-28-2013, 01:31 AM
Citfta , i did as you said too the letter , it dosent work still :( , but i have made progress , i get the magnets too kick away so power windings are okay , but when fully wired up with trigger wires i get nuthing as if no power, even if i swap them over , if i use a peice of wire from negative on the battery too the collector side of the neon bulb leg it kicks away the magnets , if i put the wire on bulb leg emitter side nuthing , im now wondering weather it's the 1N4004 im using instead of the 1N4001.. This is a head stress LOL.

citfta
01-28-2013, 01:32 AM
OK, now we have some info to work with. That base resistance sounds way too high. That may be your whole problem. Most SSGs work best with about 100 ohms or less between the pot and the base. Your diodes are probably fine. Your magnets don't sound right at all. They should be rectangular, not round. They should be mounted crosswise on your wheel so they span across the entire coil. In other words if you are looking at the side of the wheel the ends of the magnets should be facing you. And of course they should be mounted with the north face facing out towards the coil. I am not familiar with the Jeff Williams videos but I am familiar with sephiroth. Anything sephiroth has shown or posted should be fine. If you get the right magnets and reduce the base resistance you should be OK.

Carroll

dagwood111
01-28-2013, 02:31 AM
okay , i changed the reistor too 100 ohms , still the same its as if it dosent get any power too the coil the magnets and coil behave as if there is no power when infact it has a 12volt car battery to it. Strange.. im just sourcing sum magnets , i guess thats my next step , one thing i dont understand is that when i remove the negative from emmiter and touch it on the colletor it opposes the magnets , but when i hook the negative back too the emiter its as if i still have the battery disconnected.

dagwood111
01-28-2013, 05:36 AM
this may be a dumb question but here goes , i am using an old platic wire reel for my coil , there is plastic between the winds and the core ( the centre of the reel ) is this okay or do the coil wires need too directly touch the core ? sorry for such a dumb question but im at a stand still here :)

citfta
01-28-2013, 12:00 PM
Hi Dagwood,

Your core does not have to touch the coil. You plastic spool is probably OK. I use old solder spools for my form to hold the coil and core and they work fine. Your magnets should be plain old ceramic magnets. You don't want strong magnets. If you live in the US just go to a Lowe's Home Improvement store and get some packs of magnets there. They are plain ceramic magnets about 2 inches by 1 inch by 1/2 inch. When you connect the negative to the bottom of the coil and it kicks the magnet away that is the correct operation. When you connect to the emitter and it does nothing that is also correct. The SSG will only run after you give it a spin by hand to get a magnet to induce voltage in the trigger winding. The trigger winding will then turn on the transistor which grounds the coil back to the negative which then kicks the magnet away and that is what makes the wheel turn. The SSG does not self start. What are you using for your wheel? If you are using a small wheel instead of a bicycle wheel it is also a little harder to get it working although a lot of people have used small wheels and gotten them to run fine. I have built both and didn't have any trouble getting either one to work but I have years of experience in electronics which certainly helped.

Carroll

dagwood111
01-28-2013, 01:12 PM
I GOT IT !!!!! yay , i thought damn it ill run it without a resitor and it went straight away , THANK YOU for all your help Citfta, now for the fun of experimenting i guess , again thank you.

dagwood111
01-28-2013, 11:43 PM
Should the light flicker off and on ? Whoops as I was typing the light made a snap noise and the neon bulb has blown , damn , back too the drawing board :-)