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zogo
08-17-2012, 10:35 AM
Hi all.

I am totaly new to this forum and a newbie to electronics.
However I've tried to create the Bedini SSG. I have:
a 2N3055 transistor, one IN4005 diode, 2 coils (one with with 23# wire and one with a 26# wire) and about 600 maybe more turns on each, 1 resistor 1K and, NeoDym squire magnets.

It doesn't work, hence I'm trying this forum.
It seems that when I power on the circuit with a 9v battery, I have 0.0 DC volts on my pushing coil. Once I spin the rotor it still shows 0.0 DC volts.

If I take off one of the wires from the pushing coil, it suddenly shows 0.04 DC volts, and when I spin the rotor, it increases and decreases the DC voltage according to the speed in which the rotor spins (maybe I can get it up to 2 volts DC).

Is this even correct behaviour? Also how much ohm should the coil have (my pushing coil has about 5 ohm total - if I change the puching coil to a electric motor, the motor tries to spin but has difficulties due to the low voltage)?

Can anyone figure out my hurdle? I will gladly answer all your questions in detail. Just ask, and I will answer.

acedragoni
08-17-2012, 01:51 PM
Hi,

I'm also a to both the renewable energy and electronics newbie but I got my Bedini working. So I'll try to help out as newbie to newbie.

First, double check everything in the circuit. The polarity of the diodes, the components where they are attached to, the polarity of the battery and the magnetic poles should be facing out.

Also make sure you got your coil with it's generated magnetic North facing towards the magnets on the rotor.

Don't attempt to connect the battery wires in reverse as you might damage your transistor.

Now, connect the wires to the battery and give the rotor a helpful lot of spin, not just a flick or a nudge.

You should notice the neon lamp would flicker. Which means your assemble should work fine.

Now to answer your concerns:
First understand that the power from the primary battery is used to trigger or push your magnets away from the coil.

If you power the circuit, there should be no voltage on the pushing coil as yet as there's not enough current passing on the base of the transistor to form the bridge and allow the voltage to pass from the collector to the emitter.

Giving the rotor a substantial push induces the coil to produce the mush needed current to build those electrons on the base of the transistor, and when it does, this allows the voltage from the primary battery to pass though and run through the trigger wires. Thus generating an electromagnetic field on the coil that pushes the passing magnets on the rotor. The effect would then be the spinning of the rotor untouched.

Taking the wires that suddenly shows a reading is probably caused by a static spark when disconnecting the wires.

tachyoncatcher
08-17-2012, 05:16 PM
Hey Guys,
There is already an extensive thread on this: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/365-bedini-schoolgirl.html acedragoni is right, you need to check all the basics. If your rotor is small(less than 6 in) you will have trouble with those Neos. Bedini recommends #8 ceramic magnets for good reason. Your magnets need to be north pole facing out. Compass south needle will point to the north side of the magnet. Connect a winding on your coil to your battery, the compass south needle will identify the north side of the coil. This side should face the magnets. A lot of people turn around and reverse polarize the trigger coil when hooking it up. Double check that. Good luck and welcome to the forum.
Randy

Guruji
08-17-2012, 07:50 PM
Hi Zogo I usually do a small transistor and led while turning the rotor to test if the cuttin is reached of the transistor.
Otherwise it will never spin the rotor.

Peculian
08-17-2012, 09:48 PM
Hi zogo and welcome to the forum here.
can you post a picture of your setup ?
I would suggest to use 12v dc source instead of just a 9v battery.
If you connect a car battery you are great to start to see some real effects of pulse technology.
When using another 12v dc source i.e an ac/dc adaptor my suggestion is to connect an electrolytic capacitor maybe rated 25v @ 1000μF
or more parallel to your dc source so that when the transistor is on the impact of the impulse will be much greater and such better radiant charging.
As other guys here told, you better stick to the original circuits, so no neodym magnets but ceramic yes.
Reverse your trigger coil wires also to see if there is any difference.
Maybe a try or two reversing power coil wires might also help.
Just keep trying, it works as claimed.
hope this info will help you out.
Regards.

zogo
08-18-2012, 08:59 AM
Hello all, and thank you all for your input.

I am very glad that so many people here want to help, so many thanks again.

I'm posting a picture of my setup.
http://www.zogo.dk/Bedini/p.jpg

1 = 2N3055 transistor.
2 = Trigger coil with about 600 turns 26# wire (air core).
3 = Pushing coil with about 600 turns 23# wire (tried air core and currently it is filled with nails)
4 = The rotor. It is about 4 inches in diameter and has 4 squire magnets on it plus 1 additional magnet on each magnet on the rotor.
5 = 1Kohm resistance
6 = IN4005 diode.

7 = This is my concern.
When I power up the circuit with my 9v battery (And Peculian, I will probably switch to 12V in the future), I measure the yellow and red wire near (7) and this shows 0.0DCv as it should because the trigger coil does not generate any current.
Here comes the tricky part. If I leave the pushing coil attached as on the picture and spin the rotor, I still measure 0.0DCv on the yellow and red wire (and I give it a very helpful hand) - it should show some voltage because the transistor should be triggered.

If I disconnect the yellow or red wire, it shows 0.04DCv and keeps showing that (acedragoni it does not seem to be a static spark). As soon as I spin the rotor it suddenly gives me the long awaited voltage and the voltage increases together with the speed in which the rotor spins (meaning that the voltage follows the rotor speed).

So I have a few questions.
A. Is the transistor behaving correctly? I mean when I trigger the base of the transistor, should it then let all my 9v through the E&C or should it let some voltage through as it does now depending on the rotor speed? Meaning is the transistor output (E&C) following on the input (base)?
B. I think that the pushing coil has a too low resistance for this setup. If I connect a small DC electro motor instead of the pushing coil, it seems to work (as in the motor begins to spin very very slowly).

In general I think that the setup is correct, but I'm affraid that the coils are crap (homemade).

And regarding the NeoDym magnets, I've seen dosens of youtube videos where people use NeoDym magnets ( here's a HowTo guide http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttY7yLXZSpo).

So... What am I doing wrong here?

Guruji
08-18-2012, 11:45 AM
Did you follow the schematic rightly? cause I cannot see the 1n4001 diode.
Resistance on drive coil I do it 6 ohms. Trigger higher in resistance.
You can check the transistor with continiuity to see if it's good.
I use Neodymium magnets and works good.
What's 1Kohm resistance? that's to trigger? if yes try lower it.

zogo
08-18-2012, 11:52 AM
I may be onto something....

I added some screws to the trigger coil and I measured a tinny voltage (0.02 DCv) in the pushing coil once the rotor was spinning. If I bypass the 1Kohm resistor I can get 0.14 DCv in the pushing coil.

So this indicates that my coils are the problem and not the setup in general.

What should I do? I can add some nails or whatever metal I can find arround the house to the trigger coil, but I am affraid to fry my transistor.

I've wound the coils by hand, so maybe the wires are not wound as tight as they could have been if I purchased a coil from a shop.

Furthermore I would like to ask you experts about how to build a coil. Should the center diameter of the coil be as large as the magnets or larger? I also have some Neo magnets of 5mm diameter (not that strong as the squire ones), should I try with those?
I've also tried using 8 squire Neo magnets, and this actually gave a more poor performance than 4. (In my logic 8 should be better than 4, but perhaps my coils are built wrongly).

Please help. This is a very very awsome motor, and I would really love to build one.

zogo
08-18-2012, 11:58 AM
Hi Guruji.

Did you follow the schematic rightly? cause I cannot see the 1n4001 diode. I use a 1N4005 instead. It is at number 6 on the picture, it is connected from the Base to Emitter and it has the white stripe on the Base side.
Resistance on drive coil I do it 6 ohms.
Mine is 3.2 ohmTrigger higher in resistance. Mine is about 10ohm
You can check the transistor with continiuity to see if it's good. Checked it. No resistance between Emitter and Collector.
I use Neodymium magnets and works good.
What's 1Kohm resistance? that's to trigger? if yes try lower it. Yes I think too that this might be the problem, however I've tried to bypass this resistance, and it seems to generate 0.14DCv at the pushing coil.

acedragoni
08-18-2012, 03:30 PM
Make sure the connection to the 2n3055 transistor should be like this:

http://www.workpod.org/images/2n3055.jpg

I haven't tried having the trigger coil separated from the power coil similar to what you did. Instead I wound the #23 and #26 into a bifilar wind as:

http://www.workpod.org/images/coil_winding.gif

Although mine has only 300 turns of #23 and #26 but it still pushes the magnet rotor. And I use a ferrite ceramic speaker magnets the size of 1-5/8" OD (outer diameter) by 7/8" ID (inner diameter) by 1/4" thickness. 600 turns is quite okey in your case.

I don't see a neon lamp between the collector and the emitter though. The purpose of the neon lamp to act as the dissipitator of the generated power from the power coil in case there's no attached charging battery.

You cited a Youtube video (re: Bedini Motor ( Generator ) How To Build One by ghosttownhunter). I built another Bedini according to his circuit as follows:

http://www.workpod.org/images/bedini-ssg.jpg

To check if your transistor is still okey, try this simple tests using your multimeter:
base-emitter - conduct one way only
base-collector - conduct one way only
collector-emitter - not conduct either way

Wolf
08-18-2012, 06:58 PM
Have you had any luck getting your SSG running?

Here is a video to my old build from about 2K4-ish - Bedini/Tesla Free Energy Motor - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcp93rrDsjQ)

Guruji
08-19-2012, 07:36 AM
Hi Guruji.

Did you follow the schematic rightly? cause I cannot see the 1n4001 diode. I use a 1N4005 instead. It is at number 6 on the picture, it is connected from the Base to Emitter and it has the white stripe on the Base side.
Resistance on drive coil I do it 6 ohms.
Mine is 3.2 ohmTrigger higher in resistance. Mine is about 10ohm
You can check the transistor with continiuity to see if it's good. Checked it. No resistance between Emitter and Collector.
I use Neodymium magnets and works good.
What's 1Kohm resistance? that's to trigger? if yes try lower it. Yes I think too that this might be the problem, however I've tried to bypass this resistance, and it seems to generate 0.14DCv at the pushing coil.

1n4001 can limit voltage about 50v I think. 1n4005 is much higher in volts.
Check continiuty from E to B C to B too and vice versa to be sure your transistor is good as acedragoni told you.
Yes it's wise to use a neon to protect transistor.
Try to use a led to the transistor to check cuttout otherwise increase trigger lenght or magnet power.

zogo
08-19-2012, 07:36 AM
I finally figured out what the problem might be.

I have measured everything and tested all components one by one, and everything was ok.
When spinning the rotor I measured about 0.14DCv on the pushing coil. Then I tried to substitute the trigger coil with a 1.5v AA battery and suddenly was measuring 4v on the pushing coil.
So my problem must be that my trigger coil is not producing enough current to trigger the transistor fully.

I use Neo magnets, so has anyone had success with Neos and the Bedini? I wil try to rewind my trigger coil more tightly and use a metalic core.

And can anyone tell me how big the coil center should be in relation to the magnets?

tachyoncatcher
08-20-2012, 12:41 AM
Hi zogo,
Your coils have enough wire/windings to work. Winding tightness can make a difference, but it will not stop the motor from working, especially with neos. Neos have a FAT field around them, that is why it is recommended to use the ceramics. Neos will work, but can be a little trickier. First, put iron in those coils you have. Nails, coat/shirt hangers, bailing wire, welding rods, whatever soft iron you can scrounge. Cores with little pieces of wire is better than one solid hunk of iron like a big bolt. It looks like you've stacked those neos, that'll make em fatter yet! Move your coils back from the rotor until you get it started. Using a separate trigger coil will make your timing a little trickier too. More voltage will work better. If all you have is 9v, then hook two of them in series, connecting the + of one battery to the - of the other. You just want to get that beast moving. Then you can tweak it. Good luck!
Randy

zogo
08-21-2012, 06:31 PM
Ok... I followed your advices. I have a metalic core on my trigger coil (some metalic rods glued together and tightly packed). I have tried different types of neo magnets (cylindrical and square) and still I only get 0.01 volts when I spin my rotor. No matter how hard I spin it, no matter how many magnets I put on there, I still have a small voltage. :eek:

My coil has 600 turns of 26# wire and 10ohms.

As of now I am only trying to produce more than 0.01v of my trigger coil, and I am desperate for advice.

Why am I not able tp create more volts from my coil? What could my problem possibly be? What should I try? :confused:
Any advice, no matter how basic the theory might be is gladly appreciated.

tachyoncatcher
08-21-2012, 06:51 PM
@zogo,
It looks like you may be missing something. I do not see a neon bulb between the emitter and collector of your transistor. There should be a bulb or charging battery there. At the very least a capacitor. Study the diagram acedragoni posted for you. Without this "load", your transistor will go byebye. It will stop functioning. It doesn't take much. I have lost a couple or the "93"s which are rated 500v and I had bulbs. My coils are 7ohm. I have actually blown the bulbs to pieces. So get a load, as diagrammed, on that machine.
Randy
PS Quit trying to read voltage until you get it spinning. If its not spinning, it's not switching right and voltage reads are useless.

Guruji
08-21-2012, 07:04 PM
Zogo Tachy is telling you the truth if the rotor don't spin no voltage will come; cause voltage is created by fast switching of the transistor.

zogo
08-21-2012, 07:04 PM
@zogo,
It looks like you may be missing something. I do not see a neon bulb between the emitter and collector of your transistor. There should be a bulb or charging battery there. At the very least a capacitor. Study the diagram acedragoni posted for you. Without this "load", your transistor will go byebye. It will stop functioning. It doesn't take much. I have lost a couple or the "93"s which are rated 500v and I had bulbs. My coils are 7ohm. I have actually blown the bulbs to pieces. So get a load, as diagrammed, on that machine.
Randy
PS Quit trying to read voltage until you get it spinning. If its not spinning, it's not switching right and voltage reads are useless.

Hi Randy, and thanx for you post.

Ok... I am under the assumption that the trigger coil needs to generate at least 1-2 volts in order for the transistor to be able to give the pushing coil a fair amount of voltage, thereby a good push. But I may be wrong, as far as I can understand from your post.

Can I use a hallogen 12v bulb instead of the neon bulb?

And can I conclude from your post that it doesnt matter how low voltage, 0.01v even, my trigger coil produces, the transistor will still open up, and let the juices flow to the pushing coil?

citfta
08-21-2012, 09:21 PM
Hi zogo,

I don't think anyone else has mentioned this but are you trying to run your machine with the coils as far away as the picture you posted? The magnets really should be ceramic as someone else has already said and the coils need to be about 1/8 of an inch to 1/4 of an inch from the magnets. Also you don't need 2 magnets stacked on top of one another like you have them. If you get the coils in the right position you should be able to generate the .6 to .8 volts needed to turn the transistor on. By the way transistors turn on and off, they do not go open and closed. An open transistor is one that is burned out. If you do not put the neon bulb from the collector to the emitter as someone else has already said you will get an open (bad) transistor. The neon will fire at about 60 to 70 volts and save the transistor. And you cannot use the 12 volt halogen bulb. It will absorb all the spike you are trying to get for charging the second battery. And it will probably keep the coil from turning all the way off which will also keep the machine from running.

Good luck,
Carroll

Peculian
08-21-2012, 11:22 PM
Hi folks.
Hi zogo.
Cifta is right, but I will add a suggestion: keep trigger coil and power coil
wound on the same core not separated from each-other.
Till you grasp the hang of how it works better stick to ceramic magnets.
If you have no ceramic ones then scrap apart an old speaker and carefully break the round magnet from it to 4 pieces.Then use it for your ssg thing.
Mine was scraped from old magnets and scraped old copper wire enameled/transformer wire.
old rusted out welding rods are great for your project + add diode to base-emiter and neon bulb to collector-emitter...
see here for detailed info:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/365-bedini-schoolgirl.html
again stay with basic setup at least now and once you understand the principle go ahead for wild projects...
see here too:
Directory:Bedini SG:Schematic - PESWiki (http://peswiki.com/energy/Directory:Bedini_SG:Schematic)
Darcy Klyne's Bedini Monopole Motor Replication (http://www.modvid.com/bedini/)
http://www.modvid.com/bedini/images/bedini_monopole.jpg
I hope you have the patience it takes to be successfull.
btw, my setup was also hand-wound so keep trying.
Regards.

zogo
08-22-2012, 06:19 AM
Hi zogo,

I don't think anyone else has mentioned this but are you trying to run your machine with the coils as far away as the picture you posted? The magnets really should be ceramic as someone else has already said and the coils need to be about 1/8 of an inch to 1/4 of an inch from the magnets. Also you don't need 2 magnets stacked on top of one another like you have them. If you get the coils in the right position you should be able to generate the .6 to .8 volts needed to turn the transistor on. By the way transistors turn on and off, they do not go open and closed. An open transistor is one that is burned out. If you do not put the neon bulb from the collector to the emitter as someone else has already said you will get an open (bad) transistor. The neon will fire at about 60 to 70 volts and save the transistor. And you cannot use the 12 volt halogen bulb. It will absorb all the spike you are trying to get for charging the second battery. And it will probably keep the coil from turning all the way off which will also keep the machine from running.

Good luck,
Carroll

Hi Carroll.
I was actually trying to create the Bedini Schoolgirl version like on this page http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/365-bedini-schoolgirl.html, and then I got mixed up in neon bulbs and what not.
My coils are not fixed, so I am able to move them arround at my will (experimenting with the position and distance from the magnets by hand). In your post, you mention that the trigger coil produces .6 to .8 volts to trigger the transistor. Mine only produces .01, and I think that this is the problem which I don't understand. (I have 26# wire and about 200ft of it using a core consistent of metalic rods glued together).
I am well aware that I need some mechanism on my transistor to avoid it being burned once the machine is working, but I havn't got that far yet.

Right now I'm still trying to make my trigger coil produce a bit more volts.

Yesterday I've setup the entire circuit with a capacitor as tachyoncatcher told me to. I've measured the transistor like acedragoni told me to, and added another 9v battery in serial as Peculian told me to.
Then I inserted a small magnet in the center of pushing coil (as it has an air core) and was able to move that small magnet a bit inside the core once I spinned the rotor by hand as hard as I could.
So this means that the circuit is in working condition, but there is not enough power comming from the transistor to the pushing coil.
I then substituted the trigger coil with a AA battery, and the pushing coil worked well. So this can only mean that my trigger coil is crap. I will try to find some cheramic magnets somewhere to test with, but in my logical sense, neo's should create a much larger voltage then the cheramic ones, if the coil is close to the magnets.

I've read something about saturating coils, maybe that's what I'm doing? Does it matter if the magnet is larger in width and height then the core of the coil?

PS: Thank you all for your posts.

tachyoncatcher
08-22-2012, 08:09 PM
Hey zogo,
You will need an iron core in that pusher coil. You don't need to glue them, just pack them in there so they don't fall out. Ideally, your magnet is as long as your coil is, in diameter, but this is not necessary. Your magnet is as wide as your core is wide, but this is not necessary. You see, its all experimental.
Randy

zogo
08-22-2012, 08:31 PM
Hi Randy.
That you can bet on I will. The small magnet mentioned earlier was just to test the circuit.
It moved a little bit each time a magnet on the rotor passed the trigger coil. So I know that the circuit is working, but I just cannot seem to generate enough current from my trigger coil.

Citfta mentioned that he measured 0.6v on the trigger coil. I can only get 1/60th of that and generate 0.014v giving the rotor a hard push.

I just cant understand what I`ve done wrong. I bought another set of neos today and tried with those, still no joy. Went home to my dads, opened up a speaker, took the magnet and tried that one too. I got 0.03v using ceramic magnets, so I am frustrated.
In a week or so, I will get a bifilar coil with 800 turns of each wire from a professional, hopefully this will do some good.

Does the trigger coil produce more current when hooked up to the circut? Apart from the fact that the rotor speeds up thus generating more current in the trigger coil.

Another fun fact I have seen was that if I unhook one cable from the pushing coil, I was measuring 12v at the pushing coil. Hooked it back on, I got 0.

Peculian
08-22-2012, 09:20 PM
Went home to my dads, opened up a speaker, took the magnet and tried that one too. I got 0.03v using ceramic magnets, so I am frustrated.

Hi zogo.
LOL , I hope you didn`t destroyed a good speaker :D
keep that magnet, you will surely need it somewhere on the long run if not for the moment.


In a week or so, I will get a bifilar coil with 800 turns of each wire from a professional, hopefully this will do some good.
Well, maybe I am too optimistic in this yours project but I think it might as well work fine. Bifilar coil is a win in Bedini Energizers. Once you get it to work you will see some benefits right away.

Does the trigger coil produce more current when hooked up to the circut? Apart from the fact that the rotor speeds up thus generating more current in the trigger coil.
Can you please specify what exactly do you mean by this question ?
I guess you need to ask more about things you see you are "stuck" , because here in this forum there are many guys with lots more experience than me and others who already contribute to your topic.
Now another suggestion:
Get rid of the aligator fancy cables, use soldering and as short as possible connecting wires
to your circuit. I am making a wild guess and say those aligator clips is part of the whole
problem you are facing now.
Again, stick to the basic construction guide/tutorials and use welding rods as the core of your bedini energizer or SSG.
See if the batteries you are using have enough power to pulse your power coil properly.
Keep trying.If stuck somewhere just ask.
Regards.

zogo
08-23-2012, 06:55 AM
:) Peculian, the speaker was working, but it aint no more :whistle:
It was from my old car, and I would never have used it, and it would just collect more dust.

What I meant by my question was:
A coil produces current when a magnet is rushing by it's center. The faster the magnet goes by, the more current gets created. I measure 0.014v using a voltmeter when my magnets rush by the coil (at maximum pushing speed by hand). This measurement is made when the coil is not connected to anything, other then the voltmeter. Now the question: If I connect the coil to the circuit, would the circuit have an influence on the current produced by the trigger coil?

How about if the coil is a bifilar coil, does the thicker wire ("pushing wire") aid the thinner wire ("trigger wire") in creating current by having a greater magnetic field in the coil? What I'm trying to ask is actually, does the bifilar coil do anything good other then help on the timing? Will a bifilar coil create more current with the exact same components, instead of having 2 seperate coils?

tachyoncatcher
08-23-2012, 05:19 PM
zogo,
You need to check out ohms law. Voltage is directly affected by the circuit that is connected. Hook up a 110v neon as I suggested earlier and you will get a 100+v reading off that circuit. Hook up various resistors in place of that bulb and you will get various voltages. This is why I suggested you quit trying to measure voltages and focus on getting it spinning. If it is spinning then you have a successful, completed circuit.
The trigger coil is for... triggering. It will produce enough voltage to turn on the transistor at the right time. This then activates the pusher coil to push/repel the withdrawing magnet from the pusher coil. Then there is the collapsing field. This shows it better than I can explain. Understanding the Bedini Circuit - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi7cmUpMdX8)
I have limited Internet right now, so my posts Will be intermittent. Lightning hit my home and took out almost every appliance, tv, computers, you name it. If it was plugged in, it's done. --ouch-- Even my furnace/air-conditioning and ceiling light fixtures. Wish I could have stored that energy in some batteries.
Randy

infoleather
08-24-2012, 07:09 AM
If there is no "load" your transistor byebye. This will stop the operation. It will not cost too much.