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View Full Version : Need help with my bedini replication


harctan
05-19-2012, 03:06 PM
Hello all, I can't get my little bedini motor to work. This is my setup: 2N3055 transistor, both diodes are 1N4007 (couldn't find 1N4001), 100 Ohm resistor and 1K Ohms potensiometer. The coil has ~600 turns of 0.45mm diameter trigger and 0.63mm power wire with welding rods core. The rotor is a 60mm diameter cart wheel with 3 neodymium magnets of 15mm diameter and 3mm thickness. I use two identical brand new 9V rechargable batteries. I also attached a photo of my setup. When i spin the wheel with the charging battery not attached the neon flashes but that's pretty much it, the wheel stops shortly. I also tried switching the coil wires but nothing happens, not even the flashing neon. Any input on this is highly appreciated. Thank you.

blackchisel97
05-19-2012, 03:35 PM
Hello all, I can't get my little bedini motor to work. This is my setup: 2N3055 transistor, both diodes are 1N4007 (couldn't find 1N4001), 100 Ohm resistor and 1K Ohms potensiometer. The coil has ~600 turns of 0.45mm diameter trigger and 0.63mm power wire with welding rods core. The rotor is a 60mm diameter cart wheel with 3 neodymium magnets of 15mm diameter and 3mm thickness. I use two identical brand new 9V rechargable batteries. I also attached a photo of my setup. When i spin the wheel with the charging battery not attached the neon flashes but that's pretty much it, the wheel stops shortly. I also tried switching the coil wires but nothing happens, not even the flashing neon. Any input on this is highly appreciated. Thank you.

Hi harctan, If you have neon flashing that's a good sign. This means your coil gets energized and you're getting inductive spike from the collapsing field when transistor is switching off. Be careful trying to run without output battery connected. 3055 is rated @60V C-E and neon needs about 80V to flash so you can damage your transistor this way. Output battery will short h. voltage spikes but without it they have nowhere to go.
Do you have any means to measure input current? Analog meter would be great. Your coil may need more current which means more current into the base of transistor - lower base resistance - potentiometer. Try to turn your pot towards its lowest resistance and give a spin. Anything?
Neo magnets may saturate your core. It is always better to begin with ceramic magnets until you "feel" the device.
There maybe a need to adjust the gap between rotor magnets and the core (increase).
The diode between emitter and base is a small impulse diode. It can be substituted with 1N914, 1N4148.

Vtech

wrtner
05-19-2012, 03:40 PM
The rotor is a 60mm diameter cart wheel with 3 neodymium magnets

John Bedini insists that ferrite magnets are used.

This discussion group is extraordinarily well run:
Bedini_Monopole3 : Bedini_Monopole3 (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_Monopole3/)

For Bedini SG stuff, it cannot be recommended too highly.

harctan
05-19-2012, 05:54 PM
Thank you both for the swift replies. I did try having the potensiometer in all positions, highest to lowest and inbetween, but didn't make much difference. I have an analog miltimeter but can't get any reliable reading since the rotor stops in a couple of seconds. But i did test if the transistor opened using a led and there doesn't seem to be a problem. I will try using ceramic magnets and replace the diode in the next few days and post any updates.

ZeropointEnergy
05-20-2012, 09:59 AM
Hi harctan, If you have neon flashing that's a good sign. This means your coil gets energized and you're getting inductive spike from the collapsing field when transistor is switching off. Be careful trying to run without output battery connected. 3055 is rated @60V C-E and neon needs about 80V to flash so you can damage your transistor this way. Output battery will short h. voltage spikes but without it they have nowhere to go.
Do you have any means to measure input current? Analog meter would be great. Your coil may need more current which means more current into the base of transistor - lower base resistance - potentiometer. Try to turn your pot towards its lowest resistance and give a spin. Anything?
Neo magnets may saturate your core. It is always better to begin with ceramic magnets until you "feel" the device.
There maybe a need to adjust the gap between rotor magnets and the core (increase).
The diode between emitter and base is a small impulse diode. It can be substituted with 1N914, 1N4148.

Vtech

Hey Harctan,

Vtech provided all the information you need for success in sustaining revolutions on your Bedini SSG. However, I must add that a large mass will aid in the free spin time and will make tuning easier.

My first SSG was a Stakeboard wheel with 4 Strontium ferrite (ceramic) magnets with the dimensions 25x11x5mm, grade 8.
This is an amazing little charger that I can push to over 4000 RPM if I wish, about 2000 RPM is the best charging at 200-220Hz.

The Bedini Monopole 3 Group on yahoo I'm a member of and I recommend you go there to research further.
The BM3 spec (large bike wheel as rotor) is very easy to get working and worked first time when I hooked it up with over 20mm air gap from the coil.
The Skateboard wheel took a many hrs to fine tune to obtain the desired output. Therefore, large mass will aid in making this project easier for you but is not pivitol to complete a working SSG.

Last thing is to try 12V input and only the 100 Ohm resistance to the base on the transistor to aid the inductive spike (higher potential)

Regards
Zero:thumbsup:

harctan
05-20-2012, 10:24 AM
Thank you for the input Zero. My plan is to make a small ssg to study it and upscale from there. Will keep your recommendations in mind and visit the yahoo group for further input.

ZeropointEnergy
05-20-2012, 10:27 AM
Thank you for the input Zero. My plan is to make a small ssg to study it and upscale from there. Will keep your recommendations in mind and visit the yahoo group for further input.

@ Harctan,

Hope you obtain a result soon and glad to help my friend:)

Regards
Zero:thumbsup:

wrtner
05-20-2012, 12:38 PM
This is an amazing little charger that I can push to over 4000 RPM

I believe that one can draw additional shaft power, but for
every setting, the system has to be re-tuned.

Peculian
05-22-2012, 03:54 PM
Hi Harctan.
Did you first charge one of your batteries through a conventional 9v battery charger ?
If not ,then there your problem is. Or try an motorbike 12v battery, it has more amp power
and impulses will be good to go.
It seems your coil is big enough to be "really shaked" up by a simple 9v battery.
Something else : What is that adhesive,or aluminium adhesive ( ? ) you have
around your rotor and around your coil ?
If you have done a complete circle around your coils with that tape/adhesive and it is a conducting one
than you better take that stuff out, coz it "eats" up, so to say, the radiant impulses.
Try to have the center of passing by magnets aligned at the center of welding rods as the center of your setup.
You might also need, to change from 100Ω resistor to 10Ω resistor.

The monopole group mentioned by other guys here is a great resource to begin with.
Hope this info helps you troubleshoot the energizer.
Best Regards.
:peaceflag:

harctan
05-25-2012, 05:33 PM
Finally success! Replaced neodymium magnets with ceramic (25x10x6mm), replaced base-emitter diode with 1N4148, removed aluminium tape from coil (it is conductive) and it works.Not sure which one did the trick (I'm guessing the magnets) or maybe all of them. Perhaps I'll check tomorrow. It needs tuning but for now I'm happy that it spins. Thank you all for your input.

blackchisel97
05-25-2012, 05:58 PM
Finally success! Replaced neodymium magnets with ceramic (25x10x6mm), replaced base-emitter diode with 1N4148, removed aluminium tape from coil (it is conductive) and it works.Not sure which one did the trick (I'm guessing the magnets) or maybe all of them. Perhaps I'll check tomorrow. It needs tuning but for now I'm happy that it spins. Thank you all for your input.

It is always good to follow specification, get it to run and if you change anything do it one thing at the time. This way you don't have to guess and it is easy to reverse if doesn't work as it should. Magnets are important but Al tape was also "shorting" their fields.
After a while when you get the "feeling" of this it will be easy to change things around or make a bigger wheel setup. You can get pretty much any two conductors to oscillate or self oscillate but you can't deal with too many variables at the same time.
I'm glad you got this working :thumbsup:

Vtech

ZeropointEnergy
05-26-2012, 01:26 PM
Finally success! Replaced neodymium magnets with ceramic (25x10x6mm), replaced base-emitter diode with 1N4148, removed aluminium tape from coil (it is conductive) and it works.Not sure which one did the trick (I'm guessing the magnets) or maybe all of them. Perhaps I'll check tomorrow. It needs tuning but for now I'm happy that it spins. Thank you all for your input.

Hey,

That is great news that you have obtained success:thumbsup:
Magnets I'm sure played a role but as you said if you add them one at a time the error will become clear.
Now you are up and running have fun and remember only change a single variable at a time to reduce time if need to troubleshoot.

Regards
Zero:thumbsup:

harctan
07-12-2012, 10:31 AM
So I've been playing around with my little motor for the last months but my results are mediocre at best. I didn't manage to find a sweet spot but I tried running it with a variety of resistance settings in the potentiometer. The best case scenario running it with a rechargable 9v 200mAh battery and charging an identical one is this: it will run for 30 minutes, spinning fast at first and steadily slowing down, and charging the battery at about 30%. I discharge the batteries using a 12 computer fan which will run for 60-70 minutes on a fully charged battery. I know that the official design for the monopole energizer is different than what i did and I shouldn't expect the same results. But my specifications are close enough to the school girl science fair motor design (Bedini Motor test (http://www.keelynet.com/bedmot/bedmot.htm)) which is supposed to have run for 5 days on the same 9v battery and without the charging battery or the neon bulb to protect the transistor from the flyback voltage spikes. So I tried that and my transistor blew up in 5 minutes. That left me wondering if anyone has built a small motor like mine and had a different experience, perhaps running for a longer period and/or charging the second battery to a higher percentage. Although an interesting experiment I see nothing extraordinary about it ,at least in my setup. So if someone has seen different in his own experiments and can give me some pointers that would be great, because I'm thinking about quitting on this one. Thank you all in advance.

Joit
07-12-2012, 03:33 PM
Hi Harcan.
For your Transistor blown up, its mostly a problem,when your trigger Coil is to much, either to much windings or to heavy wire. You can come quick into the Area, where the base cant handle the Current anymore, or Volt and Current.
Happend to me few times, either i make a small 0,14mm (~#36awg) trigger coil with about 50 turns, or i make a trigger coil equal to the Power coil. Sounds strange, but such a big trigger Coil didnt blow up my transistor, as if it would equal the the overall Value to both Coils. Also its often a problem,when you dont have a resistor at the base, turn the pot to zero, and the transistor will blow up. You can try to put more 10 ohm resisors in parallel there, could help too.
For your first build with the Aluminium, i think that was the cause, that it didnt trigger. Aluminium or copper beside turning magnets drag the Rotor incredible down. Just try it, to hold some Alloy beside the rotor and you see. Probatly thats why you didnt have a trigger signal.
For the coil from the ssg, i did read somewhere here, that someone mentioned, that at the CD from J Bedini, he said, its the collapsing field what charges the Batteries. For that its better, to have big Coils with a lot wires. And even more resistance in it will probatly help too, that it doesnt consume much. The run batterie is allways directly connected to the Coil, so thinner wire and more resistance will cause lesser consumption at the On cycle.
I did not build a motor after the diagram what you did post, i use mine only to charge any types of Batteries, and even this is an advantage, that you can do that without needing accu's. Also, the Batteries need a few cycles of charge, that they can hold more charge. Its been called conditioning.
Could be, that yours are still some worse one, and it didnt charge that fast up, some said, it will go better and better after a a while. I also dont know, if a generator connected like in the Diagram can help the rotor turn easier.
I did play once a bit around with it, but you need to place it right, that you see a increasement. But for charging all kind of Batteries, this device works well.

harctan
07-12-2012, 05:13 PM
Hello Joit. I will try the aluminium experiment to see if it interfears with the signal, but in my case it was also the neodymium magnets that didn't work. Also I always have enough resistance in the base of the transistor so that shouldn't be a problem. My coil is ~600 turns of 0.6mm and 0.45mm wire, which is within the specifications shown here: Bedini Motor test (http://www.keelynet.com/bedmot/bedmot.htm). In the school girl motor there is no charging battery or neon but in the monopole energizer we're told that they protect the transistor which makes sense. This seems to me like a contradiction. In my experiment it blew in 5 minutes. How did the school girl 12 years ago manage to 1) have it running for 5 days on a 9V battery (when my energizer doesn't even make it to 30 minutes) and 2) not blowing the transistor? Perhaps the pickup coil slown the motor down and reduced the flyback voltage spike? What gives? Has anyone replicated this successfully and if so how did he do it? Also I charged-discharged my secondary battery enough times but didn't see much difference. So far I need 3 batteries to charge one plus the mechanical work which is not much useful to me. Doesn't seem very practical. People usually say they use it to charge batteries but do not mention the rate of charging of the secondary battery in relation to the discharge of the primary. For example if the secondary charges as fast as the primary drains (or faster) while doing all the mechanical work that would be spectacular. As I said my own results so far are not even close to that but if you have better results do share.

harctan
07-14-2012, 09:48 AM
So after 12 years has noone replicated this? I would love to have a little motor that could run for a couple of days instead of a couple of hours. If it is that simple and it actually works as claimed it would a great proof of principle little gadget. Anyone?