kick your can and your sh!t splatters !



you feel you have the urge to post in my thred ...

so i will post in yours ..

why dont you do something of a use .... insted of useless bs!

grow food stupid !

you come to my thred and spred bull sh!t i come to yours and destory it !

my grand father ....

Alvin Filsinger - YouTube


W

your post

12-16-2011, 09:11 AM
Jetijs
Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Latvia
Posts: 2,065

Dave
We have a saying, the more you poke a crap, the more it stinks. I think that it is high time for you to stop paying attention to the author of this therad
Glad you finally see him as he is.
Thanks,
Jetijs
__________________
It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

go ahead, happy newyear!

look at his shirt .....

my grand father ... the only reason i was able to acheive what i have ...

im the PRODUCT OF GOOD FOOD ....



THANK YOU ALVIN .. I LOVE YOU SIR!

WILLIAM


do you know what this man said to me b4 he passed ... ?? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA?
NO SIR YOU DO NOT !

"i cant beleave its my grandson ... i cant beleave it !


how do you think i felt? i knew he knew who i was and am

@willy96

You'll find that this thread was started by me, and not Jetijs - although he has made some valuable contributions. This thread is about growing food, just take a look at the early posts in this thread.

If you have a problem with Jetijs, do your complaining elsewhere. Don't go ruining this one.

I thought I had posted a production guide, but it seams that I haven't.

Figure about 1g per liter for Spirulina (which is about the top end compared to other algae in terms of production).

Chlorella is somewhat less at about .8g per liter.

So a 100 liter system should allow for production of up to:

80 grams of Chlorella

or

100 grams of Spirulina.

Savvypro, are those numbers intended per day?

Per harvest, assuming a fresh batch of medium (nutrients) and everything is right for growing the algaes.

You also need to take into account nutrient replacement, for the next harvest.

Savypro,

Thanks. How often can you harvest? I want a harvest per day (I want it fresh, not dried).

Also,
Does anyone have detailed information about the growth cycle of different algae? I am looking for spirulina in particular. I know the steps of the cycle, but am trying to find information on how long each step takes, etc...

Based on my research, Spirulina can double in quantity in as little as 4 hours (when everything is just right). So you can harvest every day.

But to do so everyday you’ll need a large volume to be worth the effort. A minimum of say 50l - preferably 100l. Although this is just my opinion, but with 100l I can split that into 4 containers so I have 4 chances of completly messing up a batch and not loosing the whole 100l because it fouls up on me.

hello savvy,
hows your spirulina technology going on? I see alot of beneficial information you have added in this thread. I too want to set up a basic reactor culturing spirulina but i am still in the infant stage, need to decide what to buy haha. I do have access to sciencejournal too, if u need, i can provide some assistance

cheers

Hi all.
I think I am done with chlorella. It is so hard to cultivate and harvest. No wonder it has not stormed the market as superfood as spirulina did. There are several major problems with chlorella:
1. it is small and round, typically about 3-9 microns small. This makes it very hard to harvest. Many bacteria is the same size so if fine micron filters are used, you will probably harvest much bacteria also. As it is round in shape, it flows through most filters and only very fine ones work, but get clogged up fast.
2. It grows in fresh water, this means it is more prone to get all kinds of bacteria as neighbors if the conditions are not sterile. And in bigger scales than a 1L bottle it is impossibly hard to maintain the proper level of sterility.
3. it has a hard shell so when consumed, it mostly goes through your body and does not get digested. So the cell wall needs to be broken and this requires additional work and equipment.

Spiruline on other hand is about 30 times bigger and spiral shaped, this means it is very easy to harvest and you can use coarser filters that let all the water and bacteria through, but catch only large spirulina cells.
Spirulina also grows in high PH mediums, and this is an advantage because many bacteria types can't survive at PH levels that high.

So I guess that with all the knowledge I got from my chlorella experience, I should switch to spirulina. The problem is that I can't find any live culture suppliers that ship to europe.
Savvypro, do you know any? Or maybe I can convince you send me a small sample of your culture?

Thanks,
Jetijs

@Jetijs

The main problem is that of importation laws. Since I already have the samples and have jumped through all the hoops of determining how the law stands at my end for me. If you can check on your end, then all we need to do is come to an arrangement on the shipping costs - which is going to be the main problem. As it needs to be done quickly and the sample has to be protected.

Its going well, I haven't posted as much, as I'm looking to see what happens over a longer term. Basically what happens if I don't disturb the samples (except for shaking the samples, and turning on and off the light).

So far I have some interesting results, that I'll be posting soon.

I'm currently in the process of prepping a Spiruline sample, that will be sent to Jetijs in about 2 weeks.

I have to order a few things in order to ship the sample. In order to reduce the cost to Jetijs, and to not take a hit myself, (as it will be about $30 to $40. I'm still trying to find only the supplys that will be needed and not have excess that will go to waste).

I’d be willing to prep a few more samples for shipment to others - so as to spread the cost.

This is only really viable and being offered to those outside of North America, simply because you can get Spiruline samples easily, as mentioned in previous posts.

The sample is free - I’m not charging for it or the medium, but you will have to pay for the shipping and the supply’s needed to get the sample to you.

If 3 or 4 more people are interested in obtaining a sample, I could then get the price to less than the algaelab price of $60. However that $60 is a ball park figure and totally dependent on the shipping cost, to get it to you. If your in the EU, you should be fine, but I’d have to check with the shipping company first.

Before anyone contacts me, you need to know that there is a risk of the package being prevented from being shipped to you or destroyed. The bulk shipping dealer I will be using to buy the shipping from, doesn't allow fluids or live samples in their T&C. But the shipping company which the sample will be shipped with does.

It’s basically half price through them vs. full price directly with say Fedex or UPS. As an example: the direct Fedex price for a 3 day delivery to Jetijs would be: $120, but through the bulk dealer it’s: $45.

Free sample, no longer available...

Hi Savvypro

I would be very interested in your offer and have been checking this thread several times a week. Actually I was going to start with ordering the chems for the medium and sort all that out first but now it seems I better get going :-)

My location is Germany.

Everything you need, is listed in posts that I have previously made.
I personally haven't ordered any of the expensive micro nutrient chems as they are too expensive. I’ve just used real sea salt instead of pure NaCL.

If your sure and are willing to take the risk then pm me your details, so I can check the shipping price.

I'm very interested but still confused abut the growth medium needed, I don't want to receive the algae before I can care for them correctly. So I'll just type out what I have so far and maybe you can give me some pointers about the rest. It's from the antenna pdf since it was the only one I could find having a starter mix and a add after harvest mix.

1. The easy part: sodium bicarbonate for regulating the pH, just balance the pH between 10.0 and 10,5.

2. Start up mix per 10 liter:

sodium bicarbonate 160gram
potassium nitrate 20gram
potassium sulfate 5gram
magnesium sulfate 1gram
ammonium phosphate 1gram
see salt 10gram
iron sulfate 0.1gram with 10ml green tea if not already pre-chelated.

3. for every gram of spirulina harvested (dry weight) ad 1,5gram of the following mix back to culture:

potassium nitrate 140gram
monoammonium phosphate 5gram
potassium sulfate 3gram
magnesium sulfate 2gram
iron sulfate < 0.1gram

I saw that the sea-90 salt recommended can be bought from Holland but a 20+ kilo bag would be to much for me to order for starters. Could any seasalt for marine aquariums be used instead? If this salt is to replace the trace minerals then would it not have to be added at each harvest, and wouldn't that lead to a build up of too much salt in the culture with time?

Where do you draw the line between micro and macro nutrients, is magnesium sulfate a trace mineral?

Most of all I would like to have the recipe of the algaelab people as it wouldn't make sense to order their product and have it shipped from USA. Anyone know the formula?

My goal is to figure out a solid recipe, then make sure that I can get hold of everything and then I will be very eager to get the algae's. In terms of equipment I got it all at home already.

Is this accurate? Don't you mean that for every 100 grams?
Oh, sorry, I got it now

The sodium bicarbonate is also the main carbon source, which the algae will need. So keep that in mind.

You can get Portuguese and French sea salt [look for: Sal Traditionel, Celtic Sea Salt] - which is what I have been using. Mostly the Portuguese sea salt, as there is less dirt, and you don't have to buy large amounts.

On the minerals without the salt content - I'm thinking of trying the following: Concentrace Trace Mineral Drops (amazon.com/dp/B000AMUWLK?_encoding=UTF8&m=&buyingOption=sns). Still need to test out my theory on how to make my own from the Portuguese sea salt, as I can get a kg for less than a pound (about $1.5 per kg) - compared to getting it from ebay at £8 per kg (about $12 per kg).


For me it's cost, if I can get 1kg of the stuff cheaply then I'll just buy it. And using the sea salt to compensate. Also, as I was starting with 3 different algaes, I figured out the common chemicals and bought them (there wasn't a lot that I missed out, just the £30 to £60 per bottle or 100g trace ones which would require me to start commercially producing in order to be able to dent the supply).


The Antenna medium is the same one used by Algaelab - took some digging to find that out. If you order algae from them, you have to pay extra for shipping outside of the USA. As the price on their website is only for inside North America. Figure on it costing double - as you need a quick delivery in order for the sample to still be viable when it gets to you.

I'm planning on using the same formula you quoted for long term growing/harvesting, but to get the algae upto larger volumes and while testing, I've been using the Zarrouk medium, which has worked. To convert over, I'm only missing the Mono Ammonium Phosphate from my stash of chemicals.

What we really need is a chemist and a biologist, to pick their brains - so as to come up with a way to figure out how to create mediums from whatever is available to us.

At my health market I can get pink mineral-salt from Himalayas for a very good price that I already use in my kitchen, will probably use that then.

That is very interesting, that product is already on my "to find in Germany" list after reading about it in a book called "Primal body, primal mind", will most definitely go for that. This is the same for UK I guess: Ionic Minerals CONCENTRACE® Best in The World 227ml | eBay

Thank you, then I can relax my mind about that for now :-)
I don't think I will make it for this round of shipping, beginning of May would be more realistic since I'm in a crazy project until beginning of April. Maybe we can try to ship a sample with regular air mail? It takes three days to arrive and you never know, the algae might survive that long without light pretty well. Then it would be easier to spread these little ones over Europe in the future.

Yes indeed, but getting Jetijs onboard will make a great contribution reagarding growing algae at home, have been reading about his projects here on the forum for years and I could not think of anyone more suited :-)

Let's keep the thread alive, and thumbs up for all great work.

The pink Himalayan salt is not the same, there was a study done in Germany by the government, which showed that the salt only contained about 10 minerals. Unlike sea salt which contains a lot more. But even though it's only 10 or so, it's 10 you need and it's 8 or 9 more than refined table salt.

I have also used it instead of sea salt when I have made up batches of medium. The only thing to remember is that 84% of sea salt is NaCL, while for Himalayan salt it's 92%. So you have 16% of other minerals with sea salt, while the other 8% in the Himalayan, is only 10 or so minerals.

3 days would work but the important bit is the guaranteed delivery time. Airmail is not guaranteed here. Considering the cost to get a sample from UTEX, which is $75 for the sample and $50 to Europe. It still comes out a lot cheaper to pay for the next business day shipping.

Hi all.
I don't think that the shipping time is such a big problem. My chlorella sample came in two weeks only and I thought it was dead, but it revived in a month or so. Some of the algae cells will survive, it will just take longer to revive them. So if the shipping is up to a week long, I don't think that is a big problem.
Jetijs

That is very interesting information, I should go for celtic salt in my kitchen as well then. After having another look on the big 227ml bottle Ionic Minerals CONCENTRACE for about 35 euro it took me be surprise to realise that's barely enough 200 days? Probably not so concentrated after all and maybe not a cost effective source of minerals for growing spirulina?

Did you fin any pre-chelated iron sulfate somewhere?

Thanks Jetijs for the shipping time info, sounds like algaes are more resistant then I would expect, let's wait and see what shipping will be suited.

Found some plankton filter that might be useful, or are they too fine for spirulina?
Gewebe Siebgewebe zum sieben von Plankton Artemia Krebse Fischzucht Fischfutter | eBay

I found the following alternative: nowfoods.com/Supplements/Products-by-Category/Minerals/Colloidal-Minerals/M003345.htm

Nearly 1l for less. Just ordered some from amazon.co.uk to try.

But I still plan on making my own (from sea salt) , once things have settled here.

No, I just use straight iron sulphate powder.

Their too big - needs to be around 50um aka 50 micron.

I'm not sure what to make of it, but I just saw the following on the front page of the UTEX site:

UTEX is increasing the price for cultures from the 1st of April. It's too early to be an April fools...

I may have stumbled across a new medium formula "booster" (I’m calling it that for now, as I need to test it a lot more). Within a couple of days of it's use. The colour of the algae in one sample (in a two sample test) changed dramatically. The attached image was taken today: 16th of Feb 2012.

On the 7th of Feb 2012, half of sample A, was put into the sample B bottle (which also had some of the "booster" in it, about 1 ml), both samples were then topped up with normal medium (30ml, the bottle holds 75ml).

The attached image doesn’t do the sample justice. Both samples have been in the same location, receiving the same amount of light and heat. The result after 9 days is shown in the picture.

The stuff floating at the water line is the Spirulina, which is starting to form a floating mat. Something I’ve never seen happen so quickly in all my tests.

Attached Images

new-booster.jpg (81.0 KB, 11 views)

hi it is heartening that this is one of the thread that is dedicated to culturing of spirulina being very active and alive. I too started my culture of spirulina and hope one day, it will be the same as yours.
I read a paper regarding culturing spirulina in seawater. and i bought red sea salts as my starting medium. I followed the instructions by adding NaHCO3 to precipitate off excess Ca and Mg ions, while increasing the ph at the same time. I decided to experiment with 2 samples, 1 with just seawater and 1 with seawater+ NaHCO3. spirulina was growing well at first, but started turning pale green for the first culture with just seawater. as for the 2nd culture, the spirulina stopped growing and i can see salt crystals precipitating in the media. I do not know the reasons why, probably due to insufficient nutrients or inadequate sunlights, can anyone help me with this? thank you. Do i need to add iron and nitrates into the medium? thanks alot.

@echinoidea

Could you post a link to the paper or the paper it's self for download.

For your question:

The best way I can put it is: that the Spirulina has to be "adapted" to the salt water. Unless you get a salt ware Spirulina strain.

I came across a site last week were the person was looking to grow Spirulina to feed to his marine setup (can't find the link at the mo). He was starting off with Spirulina which were grown in “fresh” water and would have to be adapted to grow in salt water.

His process was basically: setup a number of test batches and see which one adapts.

Any info/link on the red sea salts, as it could be depleted and not have any of the extra minerals.

hi savvypro, thanks for your prompt reply. here is the link to the paper that suggest using seawater
High value pigment production from Arthrospira (Spirulina) platensis cultured in seawater 10.1016/j.biortech.2010.06.120 : Bioresource Technology | ScienceDirect.com
if u need it, i can share with you, maybe pm me? hmm.
i decided to use artificial seawater since its easily available from the aquarium shop. its a red sea brand. http://www.redseafish.com/index.aspx?id=4163
i dont think its a adaptation problem since it can grow well initially with the medium for about a week?
just wondering, because u have used sea salts as well, that do you also have spirulina growing purely on sea water salts, or require additional ions? i read from somewhere that the yellow means a lack of nitrates, or excessive light, but i am not sure about that. but my addition of NaHCO3 has surely caused some of my red sea salts to be precipitated out. hmm.

Sent you a pm.

I don't currently have any samples growing in just sea water - yet.

Without seeing the paper and doing a test myself, I would say that what you are seeing could be a combination of both. As Real sea salt is about 16% other elements - the rest being NaCL. In the medium I make (Zarrouk medium, but use sea salt instead of just pure NaCL), NaCL isn't that much compared to other chems like Sodium Bicarbonate.

The way I would adapt the algae to sea water would be to start off with normal fresh water medium then drip feed sea water medium, so that the medium becomes more and more sea water giving the algae time to adapt over.