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Agriculture Organic farming, remineralization, rock dust, biochar, soil micro organisms and other discussion relating to soil, water and food.

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  #1  
Old 06-19-2010, 09:03 AM
dave_cahoon dave_cahoon is offline
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The Ciba-geigy-effect

Interesting info

"On June 15th 1989 the Swiss company “CIBA-GEIGY” (Basel) got an European patent (No.0351357): without genetic modifications, just with electrostatic fields they can create fossil forms of fish, fern, mushroom …today nobody remembers these experiments anymore…"

urzeit-code.com :: English
http://blog.hasslberger.com/docs/CIB...TECHNOLOGY.pdf

Anyone with an Adjustable Hi-Voltage DC power supply, should be able to replicate this effect...

I don't have anymore on this, the internet is clean on this one.
Seems like a good winter experiment..

Dave
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Old 06-21-2010, 06:37 AM
Tishatang Tishatang is offline
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Dave

Many thanks for this post. This could be the next big thing for survival if things got really bad. I think some should try and do their own experiments to see the variables. If all this is true, then obviously it has been suppressed. Worthy of a Nobel prize IMO.

Even though I am getting old, I will try and find a grower and try and set up some simple experiments in the coming months.

Tishatang
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Old 06-21-2010, 02:30 PM
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IndianaBoys IndianaBoys is offline
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Dave,

Great find and thanks for posting!

The book "The Primeval Code" by Luc Bürgin is only available in German.
Have contacted Luc to see when available in English.

IndianaBoys
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Old 06-23-2010, 01:46 AM
dubsta dubsta is offline
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so how do we create the electrostatic field on this?

It just shows two pieces of aluminum, do we electrify both pieces with a seed in the middle?

Are both pieces of aluminum electrified from the same source?

Sorry, I am not very literate in electricity.
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Old 06-23-2010, 03:50 AM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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Thank you Dave, this is wonderful information.
A couple of things come to mind.

Tesla's high voltage ozone maker might be easily adapted.

The basic induction coil wow. I couldn't stand the noise but it could work.

And, the joule thief can get to 300v and with a boost can go to over 1,000v.
It makes me wonder if this is the reason the room feels so good when there is a joule thief circuit being used for the lighting.

Maybe the secondary ends can stimulate a couple of Al plates, which could be held close to the fruit or the seeds
It might be an easy thing to try.

The plants in the plant battery which are running joule thief circuits and therefore surrounded by high frequency high voltage spikes with no current certainly are thriving. (and they are not very high voltage, either...just spikes.


But, yes, keep away from animals. Stick with food plants.


There is a very easy to make electrostatic generator described by Morris(?) from Tufts in his book called "Ben Franklin My lab Partner" It uses a piece of fake fur and aluminum foil and a turning wheel. A cheapo van de graff generator, or wimhurst maachine.

This is certainly an interesting direction for more research.

This is something like what some researchers are saying happens to seeds that have been treated to crop circle excitation. Those plants become drought resistant and mature quickly. (but no one has said they revert to a more ancient genome. wow.)

thank you,

jeanna
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:42 PM
aljhoa aljhoa is offline
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YouTube - Strange scary stuff! You won't believe your eyes

Al
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanna View Post
Tesla's high voltage ozone maker might be easily adapted.
I don't think we can just use any HV maker. The document specifically state DC:
Quote:
direct current between the two of them
I think it should be rectified. Maybe with 32 x 1N4007 in series.

I found my circuit produce mostly DC. I think any circuit must be tested with neon bulb to see if the output is AC or DC. I think joule thief HV coil output is AC.

Here is mine:


The leg that coiling the other is negative dominant. Don't install the car coil backward. If you use transformer, use neon bulb or candle light. The negative part will lit the electrode and blow wind to candle fire.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanna View Post
And, the joule thief can get to 300v and with a boost can go to over 1,000v. It makes me wonder if this is the reason the room feels so good when there is a joule thief circuit being used for the lighting.
That is new. Most people here said to feel sick around them. I guess I am not alone with radiant circuit that can produce good vibe .
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Old 06-24-2010, 07:25 PM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo View Post
I don't think we can just use any HV maker. The document specifically state DC:


I think it should be rectified. Maybe with 32 x 1N4007 in series.

I found my circuit produce mostly DC. I think any circuit must be tested with neon bulb to see if the output is AC or DC. I think joule thief HV coil output is AC.
Most of the ones I have are DC
The difference is that detail of where you call the center line. The MK1 has so many spikes going both ways that the scope will show it as ac and a cap will make a sine wave.

This is from the pdf I got:
Quote:
EUROPEAN PATENT APPLICATION
Improved Fish-Farming
A new procedure is described, based on the short-term application of electrostatic fields,
which results in useful and desirable qualities of fish.
Description:
Aquariums (insulator) with fish-eggs are put between two electrodes of a capacitor. The
direct voltage can vary from 1 to a couple of 10000 volts.
Because there is no electric current, the chemical identity of the system “fish” is not
altered.
The eggs stay in the field until the “little” fish start to slip. Then they are brought into
bigger aquariums and raised. These fish are more vital and grow up earlier than the ones,
which were not put into an electrostatic field. The most used voltage varies between 100-
10000V(most special: 300-3000V) the distance between the electrodes depends on the
size of the aquarium, but preferable it should be between 1-10cm.
Since they make the point that there is NO current, I think it does not matter whether the source is AC or pulsed DC. It is high voltage no current that is what works here.

The infinitely high, infinitely narrow spikes are what I believe make the magic.


Quote:
That is new. Most people here said to feel sick around them. I guess I am not alone with radiant circuit that can produce good vibe
.
Really from a joule thief?
I miss it when there is not one going in a room!
Love that HV high frequency. That is where I am going! (into the HV high frequency)

thank you,

jeanna
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Old 06-25-2010, 02:28 AM
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I want to always turn on my charger too .

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanna View Post
Since they make the point that there is NO current, I think it does not matter whether the source is AC or pulsed DC. It is high voltage no current that is what works here.
Thanks. But AC will do things differently from DC. Puharich water electrolysis for instance, it start as a reasearch for human body. He use AC.

The voltage between atmosphere and earth is high voltage DC with no current. According to schauberger, healthy tree has voltage, which is DC. Healthy river has voltage, which is DC. I think for growth, DC is more preferable.

I think we should use DC. Although AC may also be needed for improving the quality of water of plant life. But I still think it would produce different effect.
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Old 06-25-2010, 08:19 PM
jeanna jeanna is offline
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Hi sucahyo,
Please explain why you are saying this.

I am not talking about AC as in 50 or 60 Hz regular sine wave. I doubt that is good for anybody or anything.
I am just saying that depending on where you are standing the pulsed DC can look like pulsed AC.

I would like to know what the difference is.
Tesla made a high voltage ozone maker, and it is this I am thinking could make these pulses.
-------
Beyond those questions,
I guess what I have been thinking is that we will be crossing the plane of the galaxy where the very strong EMF pulse(s) will be coming our way.
Maybe it will effect our sun, or
maybe it will effect us directly, and/or
maybe it will change the genome of plants and animals.

Since the plants went back to a primitive form and the animals did too, but that meant that they became more aggressive...
I am wondering if we will need to improve our life skills.

I wonder if we will be "seeing" a saber tooth tiger after the crossing?--- Did I really want to say that?

jeanna
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Old 06-27-2010, 05:02 PM
dave_cahoon dave_cahoon is offline
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Hi Group,

This experiment has been nagging at my mind since I encountered it.

Those of you using coils need make a doubler or tripler circuit to convert to DC, and then a HV cap to smooth it out clean. Old TV sets had separate triplers creating the hvdc for the CRT. The crt was the cap that smoothed the dc. Using a tripler will also allow you to use less power on the coil. Dont forget to build in an adjustment for the output HV. A rheostat in series with the the oscillators fet to the coil.. Real hi voltage may not be necessary if the dimensions are small?? Maybe use a variac, 220ac and a doubler or tripler and the smoothing cap.

Or a commercial adjustable HVDC power supply can utilized.

Now how do we make our reactor chambers. Should they,,
a. be insulated from contacting the plates.
b. be oriented vertical with the top plate +. like natural e-field.

Plate separation and voltage seem to be related if I understand the .pdf

Next:
Are the seeds germinating in the artificial field or just stored dormant there for a period of time and then germinated???

As for fish eggs are they subjected to the field before fertilization, during, after???

Does phase of the moon affect the effect?

Ill be looking for some real thin glass to make the tiny flat aquarium for the egg and seed experiments.

Viewing this vid YouTube - MIT Physics Demo -- Dissectible Capacitor Should the seeds and eggs be discharged???

Dave
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanna View Post
I am just saying that depending on where you are standing the pulsed DC can look like pulsed AC.
a wave that going negative and positive (AC) usually used for destroying things, dissociate things.

A voltage potential usually associated with acceleration or growth.

A sine wave usually associated with resonance that can be an AC or DC.

Puharich use DC sinewave at 1/3Hz current control and AM modulated 20Hz AC sinewave of 600Hz AC sinewave.

I think you refer to DC sinewave?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanna View Post
I would like to know what the difference is.
Tesla made a high voltage ozone maker, and it is this I am thinking could make these pulses.
The Basics of Air Ionization for High-Technology Manufacturing Applications
Quote:
Ac Ionization. In alternating-current technology, high voltage is applied to a number of closely spaced emitter points that cycle negative and positive at the line frequency of 50 or 60 Hz. Ionization efficiency is low because the points remain above the ionization threshold voltage for each polarity only a small percentage of the time.

Steady-State Dc Ionization. High voltage of both polarities is continuously applied to pairs of positive and negative emitter points in standard direct-current technology; thus, the efficiency of ion production is better than that of ac ionizers.

Pulsed Dc Ionization. Positive and negative high-voltage currents to the emitter points are alternately turned on and off in pulsed systems, creating clouds of positive and negative ions that mix together in the work area. The result is a dramatic lowering of the recombination rate.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_cahoon View Post
Those of you using coils need make a doubler or tripler circuit to convert to DC, and then a HV cap to smooth it out clean.
I wonder if static HV DC is much better than pulsed HV DC.

According to TT Brown, constant acceleration effect can be attained with pulsed high voltage DC. A static DC will produce only damped acceleration. I think the only reason I notice vigorous ion wind blowing fire in my candle experiment only happen because my circuit can produce pulsed HV DC.

If the effect is to replicate the earth gravity, then I opt for pulsed DC because now I think earth electricity is constantly produced (generated pulsed voltage), not accumulated (as in capacitor).
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:26 PM
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This is a fascinating topic.
I contacted the book company Urzeit code and they said that only German was available.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:07 PM
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If they would sell it as a .PDF file it could be translated fairly easily with Google language tools or other translation programs.
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Old 06-29-2010, 05:06 AM
Tishatang Tishatang is offline
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I think this is related to the Chinese space seed program. Link here:

The Space Odyssey of Seeds -- Beijing Review

Seeds flown into outer space produce large disease resistant plants. It is probably the higher radiation causing the effect than the lack of gravity. This is shown by the subject of this thread.

In regards to the source of high voltage for the experiments on seeds. I would try to avoid high power circuits like fly-back transformers, etc. Getting shocked by these is hazardous to your health. If you use a joule thief, try and use as small a filter capacitor as possible, to reduce the power of an accidental shock.

It may be useful to set up something like Lord Kelvin's water drop experiment to generate high voltage to charge the plates? I recall seeing somewhere an even simpler science fair project that just uses a drop of water sliding down a wire to generate enough voltage to flash a neon bulb. Probably, the longer the wire, the higher the voltage? This would be something more like a static charge which connects to the plates above and below the seeds for treatment. All we need here are positive and negative plates to ionize the field where the seeds are placed. A slow drip out of a bucket would probably last all day? It would be more like plumbing than electric circuits?

Just tossing around ideas

tishatang
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Old 06-29-2010, 07:13 AM
Tishatang Tishatang is offline
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High voltage air battery

Another high voltage source as an air battery:

Duluc/Zamboni Electrostatic Pile

The DuLuc Dry Pile
High-voltage source
©1996 William J. Beaty
The Duluc Dry-Pile (also called the Zamboni Pile) was an "electrostatic battery" permanent power supply used in the early 1800s and constructed from silver foil, zinc foil, and paper. Foil disks of 2cm dia. were stacked up several thousand thick and then either compressed in a glass tube with endcaps and a screw assembly, or stacked between three glass rods with wooden endplates. Of course this is simply a Voltaic Pile, a multi-cell electrochemical battery, albiet one with output potential in the range of kilovolts. Each cell used nearly-dry paper as electrolyte, with zinc foil for one electrode and silver foil as the other."

***************
This was used a source of power for "Perpetual Motion Machine" also described on above link.

tishatang
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Old 07-01-2010, 06:30 AM
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If power source is a problem, I think any radiant circuit can be made as source. We can run it at low power and the output will automatically raise to HV after a while.

I found that when attaching radiant output to my skin. After 10 minutes the voltage raise high enough to make me go panically remove it, ouch...
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Old 07-10-2010, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewizard View Post
If they would sell it as a .PDF file it could be translated fairly easily with Google language tools or other translation programs.
They responded saying that they do not have it in PDF format, so I will have to buy the book and then get it translated.
Fortunately I know where to get that done, but this may take a few months to get the book and then get a translation.
I can buy it here for 15 Euros:
Amazon.de: Neu und gebraucht: Der Urzeit-Code. Die ökologische Alternative zur umstrittenen Gentechnologie
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Old 09-01-2010, 04:00 PM
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Can someone please translate a little section of this video starting at 8:00 minutes (German to English).

Looks like they are at a Ciba-geigy lab explaining the electrostatic seed process?

Der Urzeit Code - Die ökologische Alternative zur umstrittenen Gen-Technologie
Der Urzeit Code - Die ökologische Alternative zur umstrittenen Gen-Technologie

Thanks,

IndianaBoys
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:15 PM
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Hi Indiana
The guy in the video is the son of the man who discovered this effect. He says that you need a high voltage DC field in which those plants, seeds or any other life forms are put in. You need the negative electrode on the top and the positive on the bottom. This kinda simulates environment of a lightning storm. The seeds are put in this electric field for three days and then are grown usually just as any other seeds but they come with benefits, they grow bigger, stronger and more resistant to pests. The inventor stopped his work and never brought it to the market because he worked in a company that produced chemical pesticides and other stuff and this would mean less profit for the company, he was also in bad health at that time. His son now holds the patent rights and is trying to get this thing rolling again with the help of some investors. The effect is very similar to the effect of an orgonite device and why shouldn't it? Orgonite is basically a capacitor.
Great info.
Thanks,
Jetijs
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
Hi Indiana
The guy in the video is the son of the man who discovered this effect. He says that you need a high voltage DC field in which those plants, seeds or any other life forms are put in. You need the negative electrode on the top and the positive on the bottom. This kinda simulates environment of a lightning storm. The seeds are put in this electric field for three days and then are grown usually just as any other seeds but they come with benefits, they grow bigger, stronger and more resistant to pests. The inventor stopped his work and never brought it to the market because he worked in a company that produced chemical pesticides and other stuff and this would mean less profit for the company, he was also in bad health at that time. His son now holds the patent rights and is trying to get this thing rolling again with the help of some investors. The effect is very similar to the effect of an orgonite device and why shouldn't it? Orgonite is basically a capacitor.
Great info.
Thanks,
Jetijs
Jetijs,

Thank you for taking the time to translate the important info.

By the way, great job on the straw bale dome!

Have you done anything with Compressed Earth Block?

You may enjoy these links:

Overview of Earthen Construction
Compressed Earth Block (CEB) Machines

Multimillion dollar homes are constructed using this technology.

Best regards,

IndianaBoys
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Old 09-02-2010, 02:28 AM
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Nice information .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
The effect is very similar to the effect of an orgonite device and why shouldn't it? Orgonite is basically a capacitor.
I prefer the other way around. Electric potential produce orgone like an orgonite.
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Old 09-03-2010, 01:45 AM
Bob Smith Bob Smith is offline
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Quote:
Since the plants went back to a primitive form and the animals did too, but that meant that they became more aggressive...
Quote:
You need the negative electrode on the top and the positive on the bottom.
Might this approach have simply repaired their mutated DNA?

The drawings and suggestions about placement of electrodes sound all to similar to Lee Crock's healing device. Perhaps Mr. Crock's apparatus was actually healing by repairing DNA. If this is the case, imagine the possibilities...

Bob
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Old 09-05-2010, 02:03 AM
dave_cahoon dave_cahoon is offline
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Thanks Jetijs!

Group,

Here is a simple way of generating the field, remember to add a real HV-cap to smooth out the dc.
Jochen's High Voltage Page : Simple cascade

The isolation transformer can be a variac for adjusting the output. Thats my plan for the winter.

Dave
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Old 09-05-2010, 06:26 AM
dave_cahoon dave_cahoon is offline
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Natural E-Field Changes

The earth has an E-field we all developed within.
If the earth E-Field changes that much cyclically.. Even +-
Maybe there is a correlation with cold periods in history.

Using core samples how can surface to ionosphere electric potential be measured over time?..

Still, genetic changes can continue even with the rejuvenation periods.
I don't now how to continue this hypothesis its all based on an electric differential that's related fundamentally to action of life and the sun..

Dave.
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Old 09-19-2010, 10:18 AM
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I treated my beans with HV last week, I don't know when exactly I planted them, maybe 4-5 days ago, have not paid attention really. Anyhow, the results look promising. Have a look:




Both samples grow side by side and get equal amounts of sun light and water.
The ones on the right are treated with HV, the left ones are untreated. The treated ones have bigger leafs than the control ones and they are also taller. Will see what the next few days will bring.
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Old 09-19-2010, 09:30 PM
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Another shot:


Guess which ones are the treated ones
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:32 PM
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Another update:


The difference is quite big. I cut those sprouts off and measured their weight. The weight difference is 21%. Pretty good results Now I will try different seeds
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Old 03-02-2011, 03:48 AM
leedskalnin leedskalnin is offline
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Smile Hi!

For more information:

espacenet - Bibliographic data

Hope be useful.
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