Quote:
Originally Posted by GMC
While the guy can make his machine go on in a perpetual state, it is HE that has to sit there and exert the initial energy and continue to exert the force lest his balances and counter balances cease to operate.
If he stops providing the initial inertia, his device will stop.
FOr every action, there is and MUST be an equal and opposite reaction.
Newton's 3rd Law can also be interpreted as: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. THis means, from another view point, that there exists no possibility that any energy can produce MORE ENERGY than is required to sustain and produce continued energy.
Perhaps someone should be re-examining e=mc 2!
If dark mater does exists, Einstein was wrong. Not Newton.
Newton's Law is so true, it even works in the world of Kharma. What goes around, comes around.
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Hi GMC,
You make some good points and I agree with you. If he stops putting in his input, the machine will come to a rest. It is not meant to be a "perpetual motion machine" and I certainly don't want to mislead anyone into thinking this is what this machine is supposed to be. I will clarify.
You mention that for every action there must be an equal and opposite reaction. This is true only in closed equilibrium thermodynamic systems. Basically, closed systems without being open to other potential input. In these systems, you are absolutely correct that the actions within these systems are met with equal and opposite reactions and it is these specific equal and opposite reactions that beat down the energy in the system (dissipate) until there is no more to dissipate and it comes to equilibrium with its environment. This system will always be less than 100% efficient due to losses (heat, friction, air resistance, etc...). Closed sytem thermodynamics apply to these systems as you have pointed out.
Yes, e=mc2 is not an absolute and is only correct under certain parameters.
With Karma, yes what goes around comes around. However, there is a reaction but it is not an opposite reaction, the reaction is in the same "direction" building upon the same movement in the same "direction" as the originating input to the universe. Not an opposite reaction otherwise it would be impossible to attract anything good by doing good or bad by doing bad. Otherwise, the opposite reaction would cause bad to good and good to bad and we know this doesn't happen. This system is an open system and not a closed system and I will make the distinction.
You mention that, "there exists no possibility that any energy can produce MORE ENERGY" and you are correct. This would be over 100% efficient and this will not happen. It won't happen in closed systems and it won't happen in open systems.
Below is from:
Laws of Physics - Introduction to the major laws of physics
"Conservation of Mass-Energy:
The total energy in a closed or isolated system is constant, no matter what happens. Another law stated that the mass in an isolated system is constant. When Einstein discovered the relationship
E=
mc2, in other words that mass was a manifestation of energy, the law was said to refer to the conservation of mass-energy, which says the total of both is retained, although some may change forms. The ultimate example of this is a nuclear explosion, where mass transforms into energy."
Please make note that this is specifically talking about closed systems.
"Laws of Thermodynamics: The laws of thermodynamics are actually specific manifestations of the law of conservation of mass-energy as it relates to thermodynamic processes. The first law of thermodynamics demonstrates the relationship between internal energy, added heat, and work within a system. The second law of thermodynamics relates to the natural flow of heat within a closed system."
To understand how the two stage oscillator is absolutely outputting more work than the OPERATOR inputs, please allow me to explain.
There are two terms that are necessary to be understood as well as two very different systems of thermodynamics.
Efficiency = total energy input compared to total energy output
COP (coefficient of performance) = total energy the OPERATOR inputs compared to total energy output
I'll give an example of a closed system and an open system.
Closed system: Lightbulb hooked to a battery. Half the potential that the battery can sustain is powering the load and half is fighting against the resistance, losses, etc... There is no other source of input energy possible to light the bulb or to charge the battery as in a flashlight turned on. It has X amount and it will dissipate all of this until it is in equilibrium with its environment and it is "dead." Lets say the operator put a charger to the battery and put in 10,000 joules of work. Lets say that it produces 5,000 joules of usable work in the form of light.
TOTAL INPUT compared to TOTAL OUTPUT is 10,000/5,000 = 50% EFFICIENT. TOTAL OPERATOR INPUT compared to TOTAL OUTPUT is 10,000/5,000 = 50% or 0.5 COP (less than 1.0 COP). All the input was supplied by the operator paying for charging the battery. There was no input from environmental sources as the system was running. These results are what are to be expected and are totally in sync with energy conservation since it is a closed system.
"
The total energy in a closed or isolated system is constant,"
An example of an open system governed by open dissipative non-equilibrium thermodynamics: A refrigerator. If you as an operator have a refrigerator plugged into a wall, you are paying for input energy from the "grid." Lets say that what you pay for in input energy is 25 parts. A refrigerator is simply a reverse heat pump...nevertheless, it operates the same meaning that it utilizes energy input from the environment. The heat inside the refrigerator is being drawn outwards and that heat is supplied by the environment and it doesn't cost the OPERATOR anything. Lets say that heat that is pefectly capable of doing quite a bit of work is contributing 75 parts input energy. Therefore, operator utilizes and pays for the grid input in electricity 25 parts and heat supplies 75 parts, which equals a total of 100 parts input energy. Total input is 100 parts. Even in this open system, there are still losses, friction, conservation of energy, etc... and the actual work done to make the fridge/freezer cold is 50 parts work energy. The TOTAL INPUT = 100 PARTS ENERGY AND TOTAL OUTPUT IS 50 PARTS ENERGY = 50% EFFICIENT. The OPERATOR INPUT 25 PARTS ENERGY AND TOTAL OUTPUT IS 50 PARTS. That is a COP of 2.0 or 200% MORE than the operator paid for in electricity. Not 200% efficient but 200% COP or 2.0 COP. Even in an open system, there will never be over 100% efficient but there CAN be MORE work being done than the operator inputs since an open system is open to environmental source of input potential. In this case, the heat is supplied by the environment.
In the two stage mechanical oscillator, the input energy is gravity.
In Bedini's battery charger units, the environmental input energy is the virtual photon flux of the quantum mechanical vacuum or literally space/time energy from vacuum space. I can charge input batteries using 100 parts work for example, hook it up to the circut and charge batteries with it. When I use those batteries on the output to actually run load, it will power a load using a measurable amount of joules that may be 200 joules in work meaning I got out 2.0 COP or 200% more than what I put in. However, the TOTAL input includes what I put in + what nature puts in in the form of space/time quantum potential. The total out will be less than the total input by me and nature meaning the efficiency will be less than 100%...perhaps 99.99% efficient as an example.
Both open and closed have losses and BOTH are under 100% efficient when comparing total in to total out.
Only the open system will be over 1.0 COP or over 100% compared to what the OPERATOR puts in.
Every single electric motor in commercial production and virtually every other system in the world commercially is built according to closed system principles where not only are they of course under 100% efficient but they are ALL under 1.0 COP except for a few exceptions but most physicists and electrical engineers and do not understand the difference between efficiency and COP.
Refrigerators, heat pumps, Bedini battery chargers, this mechanical oscillator and many other devices are all over 1.0 COP and these violate the laws of closed sytem thermodynamics or Newton's laws.
Where the laws of motion come in is that the two stage oscillator is OVER 1.0 COP, UNDER 100% efficient and violates the 3rd law because there IS a reaction but it is NOT an opposite reaction... the reaction assists the system in a way that it continues to help propel it forward instead of having it butt heads with itself forcing it to have less than 1.0 COP and having the reaction bring it down to a stop even quicker.
To learn more about open dissipiate systems or open non-equilibrium thermodynamic systems, please see:
Ilya Prigogine a Russian chemist who won the Nobel prize in 1977 for open dissipative systems showing full well that open systems can freely output more than the operator inputs...the rest of the input is from nature:
Ilya Prigogine - Autobiography
His Nobel lecture is called Time, Structure and Fluctuations and is available here:
Ilya Prigogine - Nobel Lecture