View Single Post
Old 09-02-2009, 12:49 PM
boguslaw's Avatar
boguslaw boguslaw is online now
Gold Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,488
Originally Posted by witsend View Post
Quotes from boguslaw.
I have been wondering for a long time why we don't see any electrical effects on metallic conductors caused by Earth rotation in it's own magnetic field.
I think you're right. If the earth's magnetic field were changing in time, then it would induce an electric field on metal inductors. So - presumably as this is not evident, then the earth's magnetic field must be relatively 'unchanging' as it relates to objects within its field.

I agree

Is Earth magnetic field rotating in the same speed as Earth rotates?
I'm sure it is, for the same reason as the explanation above. If it were moving at a different speed then it would also, relatively, be different to objects within the field and we'd see evidence in random currents generated - all over the place.

I'm not sure now.That was my most important assumption,but I may be wrong- if you realize that our speed is very slow and Earth magnetic field appear to be so weak locally (but that could be due many reasons even such extraordinary as idea of gravity generated by magnetic field and rotation,the rest part being measurable as small force).
In consequence generated current are depended only on RELATIVE speed between moving objects on Earth surface or in air.Yet we see electrostatic charges, we measure telluric currents ...
Would be great to imagine experiment which definite would prove if Earth magnetic rotates or not.
I think that experiment has been conducted in the past we only need to dig it from the noise around us and grasp results.
I recall some testing of long wire connection between satellite and Earth ground ended by unexpected result...

But that oscillation does not add any energy to our circuit EXCEPT for few moments. In fact it mostly helps dissipate energy by generation of EM waves, RF or heat or light whatever frequency circuit is working with.
I take it that you're pointing to the propogation of the dissipated effects through the earth's magetic fields. I can buy into this concept.

Yes,I was talking about oscillation of ambient magnetic field which works like heat pump allowing to propagate magnetic disturbance further.Longitudinal wave.I'm not investigating EM radiation.Alfven waves are known,maybe could exists pure magnetic longitudinal wave also.

It is all because our circuits are relatively slow in generating and decaying magnetic field around.
I'm not sure that I can agree here. Unless you're pointing to the fact that magnet fields induced from current flow have an evident existence and polarity that is time based whereas the earth's fields are constantly evident. But I think the rate at which the field propogates would be consistent with the rate at which any induced field propogates. I believe our Earth's magnetic field may be an induced field. But I'm not sure.

I was pointing to the fact the our circuits are oscillating in Earth magnetic field and if that field also oscillate then with slow gradients there is no "space" between circuit oscillation and ambient oscillation, they are in phase.

Earth magnetic field accommodates to small magnet which is put inside it, and small magnet around circuit is slowly orientating in Earth magnetic field. Because Earth magnetic field locally is weak we can't see any measurable effects.
I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that the smaller magnet is somehow shielded from the bigger Earth field? If so I agree with you. I think one magnetic field is always a shield to another - unless they somehow share their fields through space. Like one magnet attaching to another. Or a magnetic field induced in manetisable material. But the result is always a complete bipolar field inside our Earth's field.

Yes.Exactly YouTube - The Mizzel Effect

However sometimes we are able to produce a magnetic field and immediately after that we withdraw it, MUCH faster then Earth field can fill that space again. We are creating a magnetic bubble - a place of different "magnetic pressure", then by very various methods we left it alone without powering it. So far so good, but the same way gas bubbles in mineralized water do not generate excess heat just being produced or collapsed.
I have no idea if this is right. But it's an interesting concept.

All sources seems to contradicts.Either magnetic fields could coexist in space or they repel/attract.Strange.

Let's now suppose that Earth magnetic field is really rotating with Earth with the same huge speed. We have now situation similar to cavitation in liquid when bubble collapse generate shock wave. Theoretically it's all because of INERTIA. Earth magnetic field is weak but have total energy huge, that total energy has momentum if moving and cannot be stopped immediately.
Again - a really interesting concept.

He he . I took that from car accident. INERTIA seems to be non-local yet propagating not faster then light I think.The end of big truck didn't know that must stop immediately

The effect obviously needs one important factor : circuit must produce such magnetic field which opposes Earth magnetic field or by another way create a magnetic bubble - a spherical area of nullified magnetic field, then it must stop powering it, not just slowly decay energy flow which sustain it , but really STOP as fast as possible.
I think you can safely assume that one half of all magnets will oppose our earth's magnetic field. Think about it. Our earth's fields only move from north to south. The other half of the magnetic field moves through the material of the earth - south to north. So one half of all magnets' polarities must oppose the earth's polarity.

I agree.

For example a DC generator example when is switched on.The accumulation of electrons which tend to free moving on air (between contacts of switch) but stuck on conductor surface generate big magnetic bubble but once all electrons are set up to propagate current that bubble is no more powered and collapse.
Boguslaw - I can't get my head around the flow of electrons as this relates to magnetic fields. Can't comment here at all.

Actually I have something new here which really is interesting.The concept with electrons stopped abruptly may work but we all know that cathodic rays stopped produce x-Rays.I thought about that and definitely radiant energy effects observed by Tesla and Edison was not X-Rays. Tesla experimented with X-Rays from 1892 and probably even earlier so he had to know the difference.X-Rays are produced in vacuum I doubt also if Tesla would treat himself with RE for so many years without harm if that were X-Rays.
One interesting idea occurred to me possible while I investigated that problem.Not dismissing possibility that RE is longitudinal pure magnetic wave as proposed by me I have another startling theory ,let me explain it later.

The character of such shock wave I imagine to be as follows: Earth magnetic field is filling that magnetic bubble with inertia causing it to not stop at the centre but accumulate.Then oscillation begin because center accumulation is acting against the still flowing inside field. In fact it can be seen like a small heart beating and enlarging it's area on each pulse, each pulse being slower.The effect around it is like two waves (scalar waves or sound like waves) - one is flowing outside and one is flowing inside .
It may very well contribute to the voltage effect. I love your analogy to a 'heart beat'.

The was the only idea for me ,clearly describing staccato of electrostatic -like waves - "stinging effect".A longitudinal wave electrified air particles or dust and rush them back and forth when coming out and in of RE source.
Only longitudinal wave can do that and clearly heart beat effect support it also.

Sharp gradient seems not to be the easiest way to generate this effect. The easiest way would be to almost entirely drop interest on electrical features of circuits and pay more attention to WHAT IS GOING AROUND the circuit. For example imagine a circuit which generates such magnetic bubble but then cut power to it but rather slowly, however before it does it , just create opposite magnetic field which effectively nullify the bubble much much faster that possible with any mosfet.Hmm... isn't that all those special coils with bifillar windings ? There is much more to investigate but MCT explains why Tesla used short DC pulses.In theory of course ....
Golly - this is really 'thinking out the box'. I definitely think it's worth exploring? How would you test the hypothesis?

I have no idea yet

Very interesting boguslaw. I definitely buy into the idea that the induced magnetic fields on our switching circuits are shielded. And, if they collapse, the question is indeed, how quickly do our Earth's fields 'fill the gap'? And what is the force of that 'filling the gap' so to speak. You should see how to set up an experiment to test this.

Thank you.