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Old 01-29-2019, 11:25 PM
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Aaron Aaron is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
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topping charge

Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
It's very simple - I agree that chart is accurate, but only shows what happens when a topping charge is not attained. Why limit your possibilities to only that, which has been thoroughly conditioned into the mass mindset? That doesn't apply to what I told you, however. Again, any conventional charger pushing batteries to 13.8-14.8 will have a decline in capacity over time because on each charge cycle, there is still sulfation left on the plates.

That is the entire point to what I was telling you.

Here is the pdf with the chart for anyone to see - there is a lot of good info in there on lead acid charging chemistry:

This is the most important chart ever made for lead acid battery science, in my opinion.

You must charge the battery until you get the voltage dip transition from P to R. When you do, you have reversed the chemistry to like-new condition. The dip is a drop in impedance as I said, the final layers of sulfation dissolved into the solution. If you do this on every charge cycle, the battery life cycle is theoretically INFINITE. If you have a solar setup with battery backup, the batteries can outlast the solar panels, which are expected to last 20-25 years, if the batteries were able to get pushed to the topping charge.

That chart is 100 years old - that is how long this has been known but the lead acid battery industry has quietly ignored this because they're in the business of selling batteries.

About 1-2 years ago, I met with a Linear Technology rep and we were talking about batteries. He used to be in the nicad industry and he said that is very well known that if you charge nicads without experiencing the dip, you will wind up damaging the batteries - yet, nobody seems to know this is exactly what lead acid batteries need as well.

If the batteries are AMG or gel cells, then 14.6-14.8 is the limit or you will dry them out - they also display the same voltage drop when they are truly topped out.

John, it would behoove you to understand this because if you failed in achieving results experimenting with the methods Bedini made popular, then you weren't applying all the information. I like John Koorn's rule of thumb if I recall it correctly - with a Bedini type system, 1 watt per 1 Ah is about what you need to do it right. So a single coil SG with 7-8 power windings will be roughly a 20-25 watt machine so is only good for getting a battery that is 20-25 Ah pushed to 15.1-15.3 volts.

I've seen the results go up in a very non-linear fashion. With Bedini's 10-coiler, that would be around a 200 watt machine - however, it could fully charge a 1200 Ah cell phone tower battery bank being run on an identical 1200 Ah battery bank. Each battery in the string was 2 volts 1200 Ah as far as what I can recall. And, when the output bank was charged, Peter discharged that output bank and got 10 times more than what left the input battery. That is a COP of 10.0 - that is some serious "overunity", but most people can't afford those banks. I wouldn't want them because they're a pain to handle. The reason is because of the ultra-low impedance on a bank that big. With the radiant impulses, any resistance dissipates it so with a large battery bank like that, it sucks it up like a vacuum. The round trip efficiency is irrelevant with these methods because what you get out of the battery is related, but is absolutely NOT directly proportional to what went in into the battery. The chemistry converts that radiant into charge separation and the amount of charge separation is clearly INDEPENDENT of the amount of electricity that went into the battery because it is an open system. The coils on the SG are open and the battery is also part of the open system. I don't know if I agree exactly with all the subtle nuances of Bearden's Negative Resistor explanation of the batteries being charged in this method, but the output battery definitely is put into a negative resistor mode.

Every time you have an impulse (sharp gradient), you are polarizing the aether at the coordinates in space where the terminals are, dipole or each bit of chemical charge separation. The aether then polarizes and condenses and moves into the circuit at those points meaning with the impulses, you are causing those points to become locations where environmental source potential enters the system. That polarized aether is the emf (electromotive force), which moves from positive to neutral and that causes electrons from the circuit to start moving in the opposite direction, which is the source of current - the copper wire, not magical charge that people think is stored in the battery.

This is why it is important to use as big of batteries as you can and is why most people have never seen anything unusual with small batteries. Dave here has mentioned big batteries many times and this is one of the main reason why - the lower the impedance, the more the battery chemistry will convert radiant to charge separation. You don't need 1200 Ah batteries.

I use 35Ah AMGs all the time for just testing things out and getting a feel for what I'm doing in my experiments. 100Ah at minimum is more time-worthy if you're looking for something interesting but I like my T-105s the best - those are 6v 225Ah batteries.
Aaron Murakami

Last edited by Aaron; 01-29-2019 at 11:54 PM.