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Old 09-08-2018, 11:33 AM
conandrum conandrum is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6

Let's compare 2 quotes:

#1 VRAND #1708 10-11-2017, 10:05 AM
Current setup for 120 Vac. using 5 watts input from utility, (0.04 amps) and getting 2000 watts output, (24.5 amps) from the device, then the input plug circuit breaker trips open. To go over +20 amps output will need a higher rated circuit breaker.
What this tells me simply is that the a ground loop was formed, the earth acted as a neutral wire back to the utility neutral/ground and the circuit was completed. The KWM was fooled, but the 20A breaker was not fooled.

#2 CLARENCE #1746 10-21-2017, 10:05 PM
I have put up to 37 AMP LOAD on a 20 amp wall
socket for the unit I am still using DAILY. The watt reading shown on the KAW meter
was ALWAYS very low.
VRAND says the breaker trips. Clarence says, breaker will not trip!
Clarence though never said anything more to clarify what load this was and how it was calculated/measured.

To Clarence's defense, this was not his first rodeo on maximizing the loads:
#1549 08-07-2017, 11:34 PM - ‘18.8 amps out for .07 amps in is quite an increase!’
#1551 08-08-2017, 12:55 AM - ‘loaded my setup with loads equaling 26 + amps on a
wall plug outlet only rated for 20 amps MAX - no breaker trip’
#1559 08-08-2017, 06:41 AM 'this thing will blow your mind away! I had even considered going to my sons shop and dragging his small AC welder over to my house and adding it to the loads I was running. I wanted to get to 30 amps or more to push the limit but I only reached 26 + amps from the Ground.'
What is going on here?

The only thing that Clarence had, that noone else had were the 60 grounding rods.
#1584 08-09-2017, 06:37 PM
My ground grid is only 4 grounding rods which I'm hoping is the problem. In the past(as a test) I've used 14" galvanised nails to add to the grid (with alligator leads) to see if energy increases with more rods. Well it does add more energy as I added more nails.
So my ole friend help me out here. Should I add more grounding rods to my grid? That's the only difference in our setups. I remember you had 60 or so rods. Are you using that many now?
#1585 08-09-2017, 08:20 PM
Yes, that probably is the problem ole friend. After all this is an energy from the ground devise.
Also, I am using the 60 ground rods.
Here is an important note for all members , ... Barbosa and Cleriston Leal ... about the ground rods ... answered by sayingthe the minimum shoudbe somewhere around 26 rods
What is certain is that Clarence was using 60 rods although they may not all be necessary in other regions, because his ground was kind of a swamp area.
Is this it? Is this why he was seeing more amps (37A) than the 20A coming through his breaker? Is this why his breaker wasn't tripping?

That is almost 2x the power, even though it did involve a fool the meter routine and I think he knew this but could not avoid it as can be deduced from the following:
#1570 08-08-2017, 06:43 PM
First, it is an (Almost) exact duplicate of Ariovaldo's schematic. I even followed the color code on the wires as close as possible.
Second, most people would just say that's only a damn ground loop to avoid the meter. In a way it is and in a way it ISN"T.
...Any way, each member can look at it the way they want and make their own decision.

Clarence in #1491 07-25-2017, 11:33 AM called the Ariovaldo schematic 'Basically a Fool the Meter layout'. Here in #1570, he is calling his new setup with dual toroids an exact DUPLICATE ALMOST!
He basically admits that it does involve a 'fool the meter routine', but he sees a PLUS in the whole affair.

Then he comes out with something like this:
#1610 08-10-2017, 11:07 PM
Yeah, the only thing the Utility grid powers is the Two toroids, and that only amounts to .07 Amps. Every thing else does come from the ground.
#1728 10-20-2017, 04:25 AM
The load Amperage comes via ground - It is NOT provided by the
HOT connection through the 20 amp rated wall socket - that is why
HIGH AMP loads can be achieved WITHOUT going through the Mains
The above statements may not be 100% correct, and it may have been the way HE looked at it.
On the other hand, could it be that power was flowing IN REVERSE, from the ground into the circuit?

There may be a lot of truth in his statements, but one would need to start with the 26 ground rods FIRST, before one can find out.

I hope this will be a true help to someone. I certainly do not have the ground space for something like this, but many of you may do.
So good luck and please let me know your findings.
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