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Old 01-25-2014, 08:01 PM
pjotterkjen pjotterkjen is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
Posts: 97
MK1/2 considerations

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec_ut View Post

The ring magnets that I have are 2 3/4" x 1 1/4" x 1/2" not big enough, the ID is a little narrow. The only reason I have not placed a ring magnet inside coil a/b is because I am have a mental problem with the weight of those magnets. The size your suggesting will almost consume the entire space within the coils. I build a/b in a basket weave (not honeycomb) and combined them on the same form (both coils interleaved together) with a 3" dia. it leaves no room for any ring magnet.
OK, I see your point. The weight would be an issue if you consider that it was built in a model airplane. While you are considering double height, I'm considering a total height of only 2-2.5" here. Let's make it 2" height.

IMO the ID of 2.5" should leave enough room to fit in some small coils, but well I'll have to find out at the bench. We know that Major Lanphier stated the first device he witnessed had a ring magnet smaller than 3", but we don't know that for sure. So the OD may well have been a bit more, say 3.5". Then, an ID of 3" would have more space available of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec_ut View Post

However, if coil a/b were 2 separate coils, one inside the other the height would be 1/2 the size and the combined coil could sit on the ring magnet. One of the combinations of coil design was to make the dual coil in a basket weave layer but honeycomb together to overlap the field that could be generated. There are just so many things to try.
If I remember well your pictures, you built a basket coil where two coils are on top of each other. But in the drawings these two coils a/b are on top of each other. The airplane picture does not indicate much height too.

So in the end we'll only need a ring magnet that's about 2-2.5" high. Still the weight could of course be a problem - if building it as an energy source for a model airplane - but I'm not worried about that for the moment as I'm concentrated on the how to make it oscillate mystery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec_ut View Post

I am still not sure about the ring magnet on the MK1. At the air force base where the construction was be made the MK2 was the model. Besides the new coils within coil a/b all the other parts were the same as MK1. We are still missing something. The 3" dia coil a/b that I made is only 2" in height, your ring magnet would be taller than the coil. I don't need to copy the MK1/2 I want to understand and just make something work. If the ring magnet will do the trick I am good with that.
According to what I've read, both the MK1 and MK2 were shown at the Selfridge Field; we also know the ring magnet was at least in one of them and I think that would be the MK2 design, where energy was generated in all (I assume horizontal) directions. Major Lanphier confirms having seen a ring magnet too.

We may still be missing things, yes. But we're also getting closer.

Now pay attention to this. I remember having seen a youtube video from a user Magnetflipper, he shows us what he calls the Magnetic Vortex Spinner. See it here: MAGNETIC VORTEX SPIN its against the LAW built by Magnetflipper Sept. 2011 - YouTube

This rotating effect is exactly what Hendershot must have been exploiting while trying to invent a better compass, and then while testing with devices based on the Earth Inductor Compass, he lliterally stumbled upon the effect that the two windings armature must have started spinning without applying any external energy source... so then he got excited and thus changed plans and started his MK1 device.

Looking at the video again, I was struck by the resemblance of the copper blades when comparing them with the two copper windings inside the Earth Inductor Compass.

The Utility Engines article I referred earlier to, which is a document hard to comprehend and mixes up several devices, refers also to these windings rotation and *short-cut* on each side... this is the same case as in the video!

The same document states that the ring magnet and the two wound coils around it (no on it) were only necessary to 'sensitize' the inner windings and get the thing spinning. So this ring magnet later disappeared when Hendershot invented slowly the MK3 design, but then again I could be mistaken. Whatever he did in between we'll never know.

OK. So to continue, whatever you may try to explain the spinning effect - whether it is a magnetic vortex spin or not - there is a resulting force on each of the four blades that amplify the others, and this results in a spin with considerable speed.

We'll need to take this to the MK1/2 devices somehow. Hendershot found a way to not use the rotating inner two windings and commutator... but used instead a set of coils and cores positioned in such a way that somehow inside coil #008 a/b a spinning magnetic field was generated. In this sense, maybe the collector #001 and wire #005 were still necessary to start the magnetic oscillation (and thus not a distraction). This oscillation having a positive feedback by the other components used.

So I'm convinced having found some basic principle to work from, by looking at specific parts of the device, and trying to reason why those parts are actually in the device.

I'd say let the adventure continue!
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