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Old 02-19-2012, 06:13 PM
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LutherG LutherG is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 91
Hello Everyone,

I've been playing with this setup for the last 3 weeks before I have had to charge the first 2 batteries. In this time, I've used a 12-volt CIM motor like those used in robotics, model FP801-005 and a Pacific Scientific motor rated at 2.5HP, 124-volts @ 18amps. The PacSci motor is from a treadmill - so it has a shaft that comes out of each end of the motor... With the differential of only 12 volts, I've used welding gloves and my hands to apply a load to the PacSci shaft and there is so much torque developed that it literally smokes the gloves...

I am more inclined to think there is something going on in the magnetic domain than just a charging effect from pulsing, though I don't have the equipment to see what the magnetic fields are doing. Maybe we can some up with some way to see? A Hall maybe? I think its interesting how there is a sudden "switch" and the motor jumps up in rpm. My first thought is that its a magnetic domain switching? I don't know enough about this to understand why the instant increase in RPM. I would think that if a battery is slowly gaining in charge, that the motor would slowly gain in rpm but that's not what happens here... it leaps up in rpm as you can see in the video...

Also, the increase in load on battery 3 seems to relieve the generated power in the motor which would normally be fighting the incoming power according to Peter Lindemann's DVD "Electric Motor Secrets"... The goal here is to pull as much of the generated power out of the motor as we can thereby lessening the motor's voltage requirement to run. Plus the faster the motor turns, the more it generates... you stairstep your way up... load on battery 3, more load on motor, more load on battery 3, more load on the motor... The motor load does NOT have to be mechanical. It can be a nose or belt coupled motor being used as a generator adding more load to it. That in turn will create the mechanical load on the first motor...

BTW, that's my video at Valerifon1 that David posted the link to. I shot this while out in the garage waiting for a load of clothes for work late at night.. I hadn't planned on sharing it with the "masses" else I might have been a little more clear about what was going on wth it... It was originally just meant for a couple of people but then decided to share it with the group... I really didn't want to post anything until I had it really and completely working... which I do not yet....

My initial thoughts about this circuit were that as the battery gains some charge, it gains enough that it can send something back across the motor to batteries 1 & 2. If you read Leedskalnin's book on magnets he explains that current, even in a DC circuit, flows both ways even if synchronously... In our discussions, David said he thought the voltage lowering on the meter was showing the difference between the 24-volt stack and the 12-volt battery. That may be the case - I'm not certain of that yet. There are several things we're not certain about - hence the thread here. Then, once the motor is turning, the voltage continues to drop...

Now, about this voltage drop. Since the battery is a bad battery that won't hold a charge, its apparent to me that there is some kind of shorting or bridging going on between the plates of one or more of the cells in the battery and the result is that the battery is discharging itself. What this means to me, is that there is a resistance between the positive and negative plates and this is not far off to seeing the positive pole as the plate in a vacuum tube, and the negative pole as the cathode. The resistance between them, allows each side to "see" just a bit of the other. This is like putting a resistance between the signal path and ground to increase gain in a vacuum tube circuit. At least, in my mind this is how I relate to this.

Since my 3rd battery kept wanting to recover, I put the dome light between the terminals to mimic what is happening inside the battery to some degree. It did help. Now I'm thinking of using a variable resistance across the terminals of battery 3 in an attempt to see if it can be tuned. (I will also try it in series with battery 3). Being that there is a little negative bias on the positive terminal and a little positive bias on the negative terminal of battery 3 due to the inner resistance bridging due to the material falling off the plates and shorting the cell, I then wondered if this little bit of negative bias (like the grid in a vacuum tube) is causing a polarity flip in the motor and I wonder if THIS is why the motor suddenly leaps upward in RPM?

My batteries took 2 days to get back to original voltage but they are now sitting at the voltage they were at when I started this run. In an earlier video I made of this setup running, they did not fully recover - but that run was done after playing with and running the setup with 2 different motors for almost 3 weeks...

So this is pretty much the bulk of where we are with this setup at this point. Other things I want to try, are putting a variable resistance across battery 3 to see if I can help tune-in what might be happening in David's original bad battery... and of course, trying other "bad" batteries in position 3. I have one more out in the garage that is sitting at 1.8 volts that might be a good candidate... this setup has the "bad" habit of fixing bad batteries...

It may be a resonant system that we retune by adjusting the load on the DC motor which in turn keeps the voltage in a range that can accomodate the inverter...

regards,

Luther
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