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Old 08-13-2010, 07:33 PM
Godfrey Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 78
Imhotep Car Relay Charger circuit - Adding additional Coil?

Hi Folks,

I'm new to the forum and a bit of an electronic newbee, (from an engineering technical perspective, though have tinkered with circuits/schematics, proto'ed on breadboards and soldered circuits together all my life) but have been following energy issues and many threads on this forum for awhile now. Just getting up the nerve to reach out and ask for some help on my own experiments.

I have tried the basic Imhotep car relay circuit with mixed success. Yes, I've been able to charge a battery, using smaller 12V lead acid batteries having about 4V difference between source and charge, to the point of a little less than a 2V difference with impressive radiant/COP > 1 statistics. But then, the source battery voltage starts dropping significantly, and little or no charge gain is made. Charging time is also very slow.

While recognizing the undeniable/enormous teaching and inspirational value of Imhotep's creation, I was seeking tipson how to augment the circuit to improve it's practical value.

From reading Peter Lindemann's radiant energy book, I've developed the opinion that there are inherent strengths in the use of physical triggers such as relays, commutators and spark gaps. In fact, the Car relay itself provides a physical spark gap, even if resistors and caps are used for snuffers, like people are doing with the replications/augmentations of Imhotep's CFL circuit. I've followed the threads on all that, especially Lidmotor's, because many of his own modifications retained the use of a relay. Then there's the easy availability of the normally off 87 - 30 circuit option to fire something else during the nprmally closed, power-off cycle. So I persist in working with it for now, rather than exploring other oscillator configurations, like transistor/trigger coil trifiler, 555 etc.

BTW I'm all for exploring other trigger methods, especially solid state 555 pulsing. One could, for instance use the same 555 circuit in the Bedini cap pulse battery charger for more than charging/swapping batteries -It could pulse HV to a spark gap or coil as a trigger isolated from and driving the resonant/radiant energy generator sub circuit.

But I have been disappointed that more hasn't been discussed about using the car relay circuit just as a battery charger - how to tweak it to make it more effective/faster at charging. Granted, lots of ideas could be extracted from the CFL threads, but I'm lacking some understanding of how to translate the circuits people were evolving there, back to the object of recovering as much energy as possible for charging a battery, rather than running a motor/fan or CFL in tandem while charging.

In his generous free ebook, Patrick Kelley discusses this circuit on 6-21 (399 in the pdf doc). He suggests a new circuit on 6-22/p400 in which the voltage of the source battery is doubled to 24v and a coil or coils are added across the coil of the relay.

Well, I tried the 24v source with much success, although I picked a bigger project which has not displayed any COP > 1 benefits but rather has been reconditioning a dead (for 9 years) deep-cycle marine battery. That in itself has been a minor miracle! The charge battery was not responding to a regular charger and remained about 6.5v. I took 4 new 'disposable' (not if I can help it!) heavy duty 6v lamp batteries and parallel wired them for 24v as the source. After a week of continuous charging with the basic Ihmhotep car relay circuit, the charge battery is up to 10.5v and the source is down to 15.5v But now that the charge battery is reaching full capacity and the source voltage is losing it's potential edge over the charge battery, the source battery voltage is dropping much faster and the charge voltage is slowing it's ascent.

Now I've acquired two ignition coils and want to try and add them. I ran jumpers from the coil contacts on the relay, i.e. 85 and 86 to the positive and negative of the ignition coil primary (no connection made to either the HV/+ output or case/-) Nothing happened in Neon only/no charge battery test mode (no buzz nor light). Then I tried a very simple coil in parallel with the coil connections - take the 22 gauge spool from a Radio Shack magnetic wire kit, carefully pull out the ends and scrape them and you've got a fairly robust air core coil. Same results. I'm thinking that these coils being bigger than the relay coil may be somehow overwhelming the smaller coil's ability to generate a magnetic field when wired in parallel. I'm still learning about the how impedance, resistance and capacitance of a big coil effects this circuit, but suspect that here's where I'm failing.

So my questions are as follows; first, am I wiring the additional coils in correctly? maybe an additional coil should be in the circuit in series with 87a and the positive to the source battery instead? Do I need some additional components to balance the big coil(s) with the little relay coil? In the case of an ignition coil, is there a way to recover more energy coming out of the secondary coil HV+/case- instead of lighting CFLs with it? Or if no connections to secondary exist, does the Back-EMF HV spike feed back through the primary coil as a reverse voltage?

Oh and...not at the moment a very important question to what I'm doing...but speculative - has anyone tried to put another big coil on the 87 - 30 power cycle (not to drive a CFL load, like Lidmotor did) as well as one on the 87a - 30 side and channel the two spikes to the battery - kind of like a two cycle engine?

Any input would be much appreciated. Thanks.

- Godfrey
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